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Trump team and Russian oligarch Rybolovlev may have met on Nov 3rd 2016, week before election. Why? (self.conspiracy)

pb2crazy が 投稿

Trump team may have met with Russian billionaire and businessman Dmitry Rybolovlev, on November 3rd. A week before the election. Undeniable proof ignored by MSM... but if so, why did he meet Rybolovlev on that day?

We have pictures of this (see bottom of this post). Trump was scheduled for a rally in Charlotte, NC and parked his private jet in a small airport. The plane right next to it arrived that day, for a few hours, belonged to Dmitry. Since real-time GPS tracking of Trump's plane is disabled, we would not have known if someone hadn't taken pictures of it, that it was there on November 3rd. There were ALSO flight records of Rybolovlev's plane being there, as well as pics.

Why did the mainstream media not report this? He met with a Russian oligarch 5 days before the election. It is a very small airport. Rybolovlev did not make any other trips to North Carolina in recent history, just on that day. Why?

This Russian oligarch has a previous relationship with Trump. This man, Dmitry Rybolovlev, has immense political power in Russia because of his wealth? Need I also add that in 2008, he bought a mansion from Trump, which Trump made $60mill in profit off of? (Bought in 2004, $40mill, Sold for $100 mill). Was this all a way of laundering money? It wouldn't be the first time a foreign businessman does that in the West - the Chinese do it all the time! If it was Clinton, we would have questions being asked.

The property he bought for $95 million from Trump, in 2008, he is trying to sell in 2016 and CAN'T get profit. He divided it up into three lots and he barely broke even on the largest most expensive lot. Clearly not a good investment property.

Also interesting to note: Trump's son made 6 trips in 18 months to Russia before 2008–then a Russian oligarch showers Trump with $95M. The realtor who sold the house has stated that he never moved in.

It's undeniable that the Trump team, Trump and Rybolovlev were all at this tiny Charlotte, NC airport parking lot/TARMAC (tiny in comparison to Heathrow or LAX) on the same day the week before the election date. Their history with suspicious real estate deals is also undeniable. The important thing is WHY?

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[–]axolotl_peyotl[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (68子コメント)

Thank you for resubmitting this OP. The original misleading title combined with heavy brigading led to the removal of your first submission.

Although we recognize that much of the content in this sub is in the realm of "high octane" speculation, when posts artificially rocket to #1 (and thus the front page of /r/all), they become subject to higher levels of scrutiny.

Original content is what makes /r/conspiracy truly great, and we by no means want to stifle or discourage independent research.

Thanks again for sharing your work with our sub, and keep at it!

Edit: To clarify, the original title stated unequivocally that they met. OP does not prove this unequivocally.

Again, when posts from /r/conspiracy hit /r/all, we want them to reflect this community in a positive light. Inaccurate titles that hit the front page of reddit do this sub a great disservice.

And finally, we will not tolerate brigades from any subreddit, including /r/politics and /r/the_donald, and we urge users to alert the mods whenever brigading from these subs occurs.

[–]Sluts_Love_Me 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (31子コメント)

Where is the proof they actually met? Or is op just assuming they did?

[–]marchingprinter 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Russian billionaire just taking a nice vacation across the entire world to Concord, North Carolina and just happened to park next to Trump

[–]CJGodley1776 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This op doesn't prove that with links provided.

[–]WhatIfLove [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

http://imgur.com/a/baZGv This guy was in NY, Las Vegas, North Hollywood, Chicago, Miami, U.S. Virgin Islands, France, Saint Louis, Berlin, and Charlotte. All within 2 weeks or so. Looks like he is going on a nice vacation.

[–]politicssubistrash [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's an r/politics drone pulling together as much inane bullshit as possible in order to create material for a thread worthy of brigading.

See here, proof of r/politics tards brigading: https://i.imgur.com/6hNFpXB.png

[–]WhatIfLove -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

OP Assuming. No proof like Russia pissgate.

[–]lolshovels [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He is assuming. Trump was in Concord on November 3rd and flew into Concord Regional Airport hours after Dmitry's plane had landed in Charlotte.

There is no proof that picture of Trump's plane is from the same day. Trump was giving a speech in Florida when Dmitry left Concord. I see no proof that they were at the same airport at the same time.

[–]ArchonFall4All 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Okay, now that we have a fresh start on this thread, I will try to get some discussion going. Your evidence is superb and I think you might be on to something. I would just recommend editing your first paragraph claiming that they did indeed meet. Otherwise, you're just giving people bait to derail the conversation. If we get enough eyes on this, hopefully we can dig up some more evidence of a meeting actually taking place

[–]CitationDependent -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Evidence of what is superb? That Trump probably got a good deal on a property up for auction?

That like most properties he gets, he upgrades and sells for more?

Of the booming real estate market from 2004 to its peak in 2008?

Of a deal that earned him 0.005 of his net worth? Like many other deals he's done?

[–]ArchonFall4All 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The evidence that they were in the same vicinity at the same time. As we saw with Clinton and Lynch, we shouldn't discount any potential meeting. But the fact that the OP isn't editing the post to clarify that the meeting isn't proven makes me a little suspicious. He's sticking with the claim that there's "undeniable proof" of their meeting which is misleading at best

[–]pb2crazy[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

uh... read the title

"may have met"

I didn't say it was proven, just that they may have met. If they did, why?

[–]ArchonFall4All 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was referring to your first paragraph, not the title. I see you edited the first sentence, but the last sentence still says:

Undeniable proof ignored by MSM... but why did he meet Rybolovlev on that day?

[–]pb2crazy[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I edited the first sentence, but still assert there is undeniable proof that is being ignored.

[–]CitationDependent 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's Nov 3rd. Trump had press on the plane. He had his schedules public. He had crowds everywhere.

Even the closest picture would put them at hundreds of meters of tarmac away. He had Secret Service spiriting him to rallies from his plane. He did three rallies that day in different states.

So, he meets a guy who bought a house off him. Is the guy supposed to have given him something? He's a fucking multibillionaire running for President, the only way for some Russian spy who now apparently exerts massive influence over a man richer and more powerful than him is to meet in person? On a tarmac. With "Trump" written on his plane. In a state he is scheduled to come to. With the whole airport facing him.

[–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It was probably someone on his team meeting Rybolovlev... not Trump himself? Someone like Flynn, or his daughter or son.

[–]ig-Pay-atin-Lay [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

He had 3 rally's that day: Concord, Salem, and Jacksonville(FL)

I don't see any proof he was at charlotte on that day(beside's the OPs Twitter photo of his plane)

[–]ArchonFall4All [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

These are all good points

[–]CJGodley1776 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ha!

[–]435435435 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Say it were true, who cares?

Did bush ever hang out with Saudi billionaires? Did Clinton ever get money from questionable sources?

I assume is a puppet. If he were not, wouldn't friendly relationship with Russia be a good thing? Maybe less chance of world war 3, the one with the fireworks

Given the hundreds of years of us interference with other nations politics dealings, such as installing puppet dictators. It's laughable and sad how salty some can be when the tables are apparently turned.

With that said, the MSM narrative of the Russians are evil is dumb. One would hope most skeptical thinkers could see above that

[–]ArchonFall4All [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I agree, and I support closer relationships with Russia. There have been so many claims of Trump having nefarious ties to Russia, but no proof has materialized yet. I'm willing to let people dig as much as they can to prove anything, but I admit I don't expect much to come of this.

[–]CJGodley1776 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ha!

[–]CJGodley1776 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ha, ha!

[–]bkjlnsdaue [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

LOL this is such a joke of a comment right?

CTR trying to get /r/conspiracy to do their dirty work, and they don't even have a thread of base...

[–]ArchonFall4All [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I you look through my history, you'll see I'm one of the most vocal people about calling out the lies behind the anti-Russia propaganda. Some other users have already made good points that poke holes in this theory, and I'm confident that the truth will win out at the end of the day. That being said, I'm open to discussing anything and I go wherever the evidence takes me

[–]bkjlnsdaue [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Then list the ACTUAL fucking evidence...

you said it was superb, but is ther any proof they met?

not "MAY HAVE MET"

it's all bullshit

unlike the "I still know and keep in touch with " -( known sex offender hassert ) from the one podesta brother

see how one has actual link, actual fact, actual hard evidence when a person emails from his own email talking about having just talked to and keeping in touch with someone?

So where is the evidence you're following again? or linking?

[–]ArchonFall4All [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Mainly I don't want to see this community divided over partisan issues and concerns about censorship. I would like to see everybody's ideas get discussed here with as little bias as possible. In this instance, I won't support any claims that they met without proof, but I'm also not afraid to discuss the possibility

[–]Gileshenderson 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (51子コメント)

The level of censorship in this sub is quite absurd...

[–]DrHenryPym 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, if that's what you wanna bitch about -- go back to the other post.

[–]Phillipinsocal 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (6子コメント)

*on Reddit

It's crazy how censorship can be the top comment in this sub but try hinting a whisper of censorship on /r/politics, /r/news or /r/worldnews and your comment is quickly downvoted and suppressed. Why do comments like this hit the top here, but get buried in other subs? Makes you reallly wonders what is being censored.......

[–]2totwo 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Objectively a thread on conspiracy should see censorship as its number one enemy. What I just witnessed happened to this post is astounding. Months and months of bullshit pizza bullshit and finally someone drops an incredible, if true, front-headline story, right here, and it's flaired to suggest falseness, and the mod makes a post saying, with no evidence, that the post is being brigaded. What was different about this post? It wasn't about pizza, it was about Trump. When you include the fact that the censoring Mod also mods /r/DNCleaks and /r/Wikileaks, his agenda becomes more clear. This, appearently, is to be a place where only pizza is discussed.

[–]DrHenryPym 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Are you talking about the post that's source was a CIA leak? Since when does this sub believe in anything the CIA leaks?

No, the objection of that had nothing to do with Trump.

[–]pb2crazy[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why do they believe in FBI leaks then?

[–]DrHenryPym 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Links? I'm not sure I know what you're talking about....

[–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

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[–]Luke_H 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Nyet comrade, no censorship here. Here, have some polonium tea.

[–]tedsmitts 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Excuse me I take cream in my polonium.

[–]Gadfly360 -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (12子コメント)

This is what the numbers look like when this thread is organically upvoted.

Noone cares about this because most people want Russia and the US to be on friendly terms. The current situation where the US has encircled Russia with military bases and overthrew the democratically elected president of Ukraine and installed a puppet in order to get them to join NATO will lead to WW3.

It is much preferable to have the US and Russia on friendly terms. Unless you are saying that Trump is literally a Russian agent this is immaterial.

[–]LAcumDodgers -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

THANK YOU. Fuck I thought I was in a political subreddit or something. Most people here don't agree with the way Red Scare 2.0 is being presented. It reeks of bullshit

[–]bearhat808 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Exactly. The Red Scare propaganda disturbs me because I don't want another pointless war. Not with Russia or China or Syria or some other Middle Eastern country. No more wars.

[–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

So why do you think we are not on good terms with Russia right now? For fun? Remember, Obama wanted to "reset" with Putin. Do you know what went wrong? Crimea invaded in a land crime from another country. Submarines lurking off nato allies' coast. Supression of gays, of people with aids, of muslims. There is no free press, there is Putin press. The shooting down and denial of the Malaysian flight. Essentially you're saying this influence is cool, no matter how shady it is, because these people have been our ideological enemy for 70 years so let's stop. But there's a reason they've been the enemy. You're okay with an enemy influence us? You really think they'll have our best intentions in mind? Really?

[–]bearhat808 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

You're okay with an enemy influence us?

Nobody was worried about Russian influence or threats when the Clintons sold off 20 percent of America's uranium production to them.

Beyond mines in Kazakhstan that are among the most lucrative in the world, the sale gave the Russians control of one-fifth of all uranium production capacity in the United States. Since uranium is considered a strategic asset, with implications for national security, the deal had to be approved by a committee composed of representatives from a number of United States government agencies. Among the agencies that eventually signed off was the State Department, then headed by Mr. Clinton’s wife, Hillary Rodham Clinton.

It's very suspicious that they suddenly became concerned about Russia after Hillary decisively lost. Frankly, I'm not buying the Red Scare 2.0.

Also, the mainstream media never questioned the $20 million donations the Saudis were making to the Clinton Foundation. Apparently the mainstream media was okay with Saudi influence over the Clintons despite the Saudis being a proven enemy (they financed the 9/11 hijackers).

Again, no more wars.

[–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Ha, the FBI had the piss dossier since July. They had hack evidence conclusive since summer. They didn't release it because cucks like you would have lost your mind and said they were influencing the campaign. I am not worried about the fucking clintons man, they lost, they're gone. Recognize your own blindness. Your daddy is the shillest of them all.

[–]bearhat808 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

You're deflecting and resorting to namecalling because you have no way of countering my point about the uranium sale or Saudi influence over the election.

[–]bkjlnsdaue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Nice spot, I'm arguing with same jackass shill in other thread, he's so clueless.

"The had dossier since july"

yet didn't use it before election because... it's BULLSHIT, it all falls apart so ridiculously fast.

Look at 2totwo's profile history, it's a joke what a shill he is

[–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Naw I just saw he was a Donald poster so I put it in terms he'd understand. Dude I honestly don't care about your plutonium. You can't make Hillary the enemy any more, and attempts to distract to her, you will find in uh two days, will cease to work at all. You will have to deal with the reality of the man you chose. I hope you will be critical at that time. Good luck friend.

[–]benedictFocker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Haha you're a troll pretending to shill right?

[–]Gadfly360 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Jimmy Dore had a good video on this the other day.

US & NATO Ramping up War and Provoking Russia

[–]MechaSandstar [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Da. is good point to be making, comrade fellow Americanski

[–]dolaction 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I always question gilded conspiracy posts, it's not like us to hold so fast.

[–]pb2crazy[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I've gotten golded 5 times in the last three hours anonymously, they golded it probably because they read my last thread and saw it unfairly deleted.

[–]BigPharmaSucks 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

IMO gold is a psychological trick that adds fake value to a post.

[–]freedmason [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's a conscious tactic used by admins. Look at some of the assange threads with all-time highs for gold given in a single thread.

I have another account with over a million karma, and I've never gotten more than double gold on a post. Anytime I see 20x gold, it's near 100% certain to be bullshit.

コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

    [–]freedmason [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    You got gold from an admin for pushing a narrative they like.

    [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

    [–]AutoModerator[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

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    [–]Agastopia 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Why on earth was this post removed...? This is the second anti trump post in a week that got to r/all and then was removed by the mods...

    [–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    Because it wasn't about pizza.

    [–]fuckoffCTRshill [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    You sure are bright there buddy. Not like the comment he's replying to has the reason in it or anything /s

    Good thing we have you to figure it out, Sherlock Holmes.

    Yet another r/politics regular here to brigade and harass users of the sub, and who never posts a single useful comment. Just spam.

    [–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Account for four days calling me a shill, saying I post nothing useful when when I have 500k points here. Too rich!

    [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

    [–]AutoModerator[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

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    [–]antiherodave [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    The deleted post said "Trump met with Russian oligarch." This post reads "Trump team and Russian oligarch Rybolovlev may have met." I'd say that's what it was. From undelete:

    [#20|+2381|742] Trump met with Russian oligarch Rybolovlev on Nov 3rd 2016, week before election. Why? [/r/conspiracy]

    [–]fuckoffCTRshill [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Your question is answered in the comment you replied to, genius.

    You should know considering you're one of the main r/politics spammers.

    You NEVER post a single useful comment in this sub. It's always harassing others, putting down the purpose of the sub, putting down users who ask questions instead of swallowing the agenda you're pushing.

    Pretending you're some "regular" offended by censorship is pathetic.

    [–]Agastopia [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    When's the last time I posted on r/politics? I gave up on that sub lol and on the post before it was removed i actually did make a good point so checkmate

    [–]zerton 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Did the original really get deleted by the mods? That's unacceptable.

    [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Yes.

    [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

    [–]AutoModerator[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

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    [–]2totwo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Yes.

    [–]Ninjakick666 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (11子コメント)

    I can get on board with the fact that they were both there at the same time, but I don't have a paid flightradar account to find out for sure...

    But from what I can see that picture of Trump's plane in the OP was not taken at the NC Airport... if you cross reference the two there is no way you can make them match up... NC only has a very small area with the "parking lot" lines painted on the pavement... and none of that area has the same configuration of Air Traffic Tower -> Tree -> Hangar -> Tarmac as is seen in this photo.

    The theory that they were both there at roughly the same time holds up... but the fact that the picture of Trump's plane was added in as some "bonus photographic evidence" detracts from the narrative.

    [–]pb2crazy[S] 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Trump's plane was at the NC airport because it says "charlotte" in literally one of the pictures

    let me post a better pic to prove your disinfo wrong... :/

    EDIT: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WXwWUUAAEGymU.jpg this is a picture with the NC national guard building in the background. the airport is Charlotte, NC, see the map to place this picture.

    Close up of MKATE https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2V9uMpUUAAeevd.jpg from the Charlotte picture.

    [–]Ninjakick666 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh it's not disinfo... I'm just asking for more info cause I can't square it away in my head... I just don't think the Trump plane pic that was originally posted was at the NC airport... I think his plane was probably there... I don't think that picture is of the NC airport... The air traffic control tower/buildings are wrong.

    I'm not worried about MKATE... I just can't place the Trump pic anywhere at that airport... I think it was just added in as a little "flair".

    [–]williamsates 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    So folks, the proof that the plane is connected to a Russian oligarch is this:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2eAn7HUcAAIUVn.jpg

    We see this is false in several ways.

    First the airplane belongs to Saphor Property Holdings a company from the British Virgin Islands

    And Secondly it is not a 25 seat plane rather it is a 142 seat plane.

    Evidence is here:

    https://i.imgur.com/7OfKLlI.png

    [–]ArchonFall4All 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But since it's a private jet, it's not like he would have coach seats in there. 25 seats seems pretty reasonable for a private jet of this size

    [–]Huskies971 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    A company which was purchased by Rybolovlev's company Uralkali, when he sold the company he kept the jets.

    EDIT: including link http://aviationanecdotes.blog.tdg.ch/archive/2012/04/30/m-kate-not-the-british-royal-family.html

    [–]williamsates [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    https://imgur.com/cYjOxF0

    http://archive.is/daKeO

    This is important because we can see that ...

    In June 2010, Rybolovlev sold a 53% shareholding in Uralkali to a group of Russian investors: Kaliha Finance Limited (Suleiman Kerimov, 25%), Aerellia Investments Limited (Alexander Nesis, 15%) and Becounioco Holdings Limited (Filaret Galchev, 13.2%).[24] The transaction price was not disclosed, but was reported to be around US$5.3 billion.

    In December 2010, Uralkali announced plans to buy potash producer, Silvinit and form one of the world's largest potash producers.[25] The merger was finalized in July 2011, Rybolovlev had already sold the remaining 10% of his shares of Uralkali to a company owned by Alexander Nesis in April 2011.

    So our Russian oligarch already sold his share before the jet was even delivered...

    [–]mexistential_gyro 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    The capacity of a standard A319/320 is about 150 passengers. One modified to the tastes of an oligarch will seat substantially fewer people. (Trump's own 757 seats 43 people rather than up to 200 passengers for a typical commercial version.) Observing that it is owned on paper by a holding company is a pointless red herring.

    [–]williamsates [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Ok how about this...

    https://imgur.com/cYjOxF0

    http://archive.is/daKeO

    This is important because we can see that ...

    In June 2010, Rybolovlev sold a 53% shareholding in Uralkali to a group of Russian investors: Kaliha Finance Limited (Suleiman Kerimov, 25%), Aerellia Investments Limited (Alexander Nesis, 15%) and Becounioco Holdings Limited (Filaret Galchev, 13.2%).[24] The transaction price was not disclosed, but was reported to be around US$5.3 billion.

    In December 2010, Uralkali announced plans to buy potash producer, Silvinit and form one of the world's largest potash producers.[25] The merger was finalized in July 2011, Rybolovlev had already sold the remaining 10% of his shares of Uralkali to a company owned by Alexander Nesis in April 2011.

    So our Russian oligarch already sold his share before the jet was even delivered...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dmitry_Rybolovlev

    How about you actually provide some evidence that Rybolovlev is connected to Saphor.

    edit: link added

    [–]kekehippo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    You're evidence links to an Airbus A320. As for the Russian billionaire his plane is an A319. I'm not savvy when it comes to planes but I'm not quiet sure you can just change the model on your registration that easily.

    [–]Dawg1shly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Where does it say Charlotte in the pic you posted? I can only see "NC Air National Guard."

    [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    It says Charlotte in the MKATE picture. MKATE was in Charlotte-Douglas.

    In the TRUMP plane picture, in the background you see the NC Air National Guard, which is a building directly behind the tarmac at Charlotte-douglas (see Wikipedia), that was taken the same day the MKATE picture was taken, by the same person, at the same airport: Charlotte-Douglas, NC. The flight records corroborate that.

    [–]Claypot 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hopefully this thread will be upvoted naturally and not artificially.

    Anyway, Trump may very well have connections to Russia but to what extent is the real question. It's obvious though that US state propaganda is overestimating Russian influence on the selection... err.. I mean election. Russia has been demonized for several years now so it's probably part of the agenda.

    [–]Fuckaduckfuckaduck 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    In the interest of having all relevant discussion from the deleted thread available, I am going to copy pasta my comments from that thread. OP has since edited to make the corrections I pointed out, and I feel like this is a worthy topic for the sub.

    Will be adding my original comments shortly in an edit to this comment.

    I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of Occult connections in Charlotte, especially Uptown. And apparently, the supposed Gitmo Express flight that left Heathrow after Assange's internet was cut landed in Smithfield, NC. Not too far from here. Basically what I'm getting at is NC, and Charlotte, are most certainly not foreign to TPTB.

    I'm still not sure what to make of this, but it is the exact kind of constructive post this sub has been missing.

    Edit - My first reply.

    "Nice post.

    Although Charlotte Douglas International Airport is certainly not tiny lol. It's also one of the busiest airports in the states when combining cargo and passenger flights.

    You should probably edit your post to clarify. There is a BIG difference between Charlotte-Douglas and Concord's airport. And a plane that size did not land in Concord, that pic of Trump's plane is actually at Charlotte-Douglas. Not Concord. Even the fuel truck says Charlotte on it. Charlotte-Douglas is also a very common layover destination to catch connecting flights to major cities.

    Source; I live in Charlotte.

    Charlotte is a pretty shady banking town, too. I'm convinced this city has ties to TPTB.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Douglas_International_Airport"

    Edit 2 - My second reply

    "Yeah, what I'm saying is; there is no way both those planes were at Concord's airport. Trump's jet is too large to land there. Both pics of those jets were taken at Charlotte-Douglas.

    In the pic of the Russian plane, "Charlotte" is clearly visible on the fuel truck. And as I said, Concord's airport couldn't handle a jet the size of Trump's. The pic of Trump's jet is most definitely on the tarmac of Charlotte-Douglas. I recognize the hangar behind the plane.

    As far as both of them being here at the same time is concerned; As stated, Trump had a rally here. He had reason to be here. Charlotte is a MAJOR banking city. As a matter of fact; Charlotte is the 2nd largest banking city in the U.S besides NYC. There is a federal reserve here as well. So the billionaire Russian banker could even have had a plausible reason to be here. I don't believe in coincidence, so them being here at the same time is curious to me. That being said; there are plausible reasons that they both could have been here at the same time. Either way, great find OP. Thanks for sharing.

    FWIW; Charlotte-Douglas Airport also houses one of the largest Air National Guard Armories in the country...

    Edit 3 - My third reply

    "Oh no, it's absolutely interesting and curious as to why they were both at the airport at the SAME time. Would have been very easy to have a quick, out of sight meeting.

    It is definitely something worthy of this sub IMO."

    [–]pb2crazy[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Thanks for posting this! Another t_d user messaged me on the-subreddit-that-shall-not-be-named-but-rhymes-with-dolitics but did awesome research on Rybolovlev... like amazing. I'm afraid to link it because I don't want this to be deleted again. I would quote it but it is VERY long and formatted with links...

    [–]Fuckaduckfuckaduck 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You are welcome. I thought about it for a moment as I didn't want it to appear as though I am karma-whoring. But I genuinely feel like you've brought forth a great topic and as such this new thread should have any and all relevant comments from the previous thread.

    I don't think it'd be a bad idea for you as the OP to go, and gather a few of those relevant comments and repost them in this new thread.

    [–]sceneredacted 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (18子コメント)

    Real-time tracking of Trump's plane wasn't disabled. I tracked it from time to time myself.

    [–]pb2crazy[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Well we cannot track it for that day... because it was disabled.

    [–]2totwo 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Funny how in the time since the mods deleted your first post (what did they claim was wrong with the title anyway?) until you were able to post this one, all the skeptics seem to have come out..

    [–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]pb2crazy[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I'm kind of exhausted from typing on my rickety keyboard and arguing with Kremlinbots for 4 hours... if you want to take over the reigns, I'd support it. I tried posting about it in subredditdrama but the mods deleted it there too once the thread took off at 50 posts.

        I'd write a Medium article and link it to news related subreddits tomorrow, maybe. But damn, I'm just one person in a sea of shills, it's exhausting how much they lie and how much they distort the truth.

        [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          I think I will work on a medium article and post it tomorrow, not to this subreddit but subreddits that take editorials, like the one that rhymes with dolitics and doliticaldiscussion.

          [–]AbandonEarth4Peace [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Please do. Hopefully we can promote it enough that Politico, WaPo, NYTimes reporters to go and validate that FBI/CIA etc know about this from their sources and put it on TV non stop. This is some real explosive spy level stuff you have told us, lol.

          [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

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          [–]Luke_H 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (7子コメント)

          And do you have the records from that day?

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

          No, because they were disabled. If he does have flight records from that time of the TRUMP plane I'd love to see them, truly, and will edit my post to include them.

          [–]Luke_H 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Of course you would. The whole point of these posts is to discuss potential conspiracies and the evidence surrounding them, not push some sort of baseless narrative, right?

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Yes. But the whole point is that they don't exist, sadly. :-( I wish they did, because they there would be more than a picture & conference to prove that his plane was in Charlotte, NC on Nov 3rd

          [–]Ninjakick666 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          He did have a rally in NC that day... so his plane would probably have been there... but I don't think the photo of his plane posted above was actually taken at the NC airport.

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WXwWUUAAEGymU.jpg pic of his plane with the NC national guard building in the background, looks exactly like the map posted.

          [–]Dawg1shly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Must have been disabled because his daughter Ivanka was using the plane that day.

          [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          She used it Nov 2nd. This is Nov 3rd. What, they can't travel together? Stop spreading kremlin-lies

          [–]quackchomp 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          What is or is there any connection between Rybolovlev and any of trumps appointments? I think that's a serious question that should be asked.

          [–]CitationDependent 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          OP, stop trolling. CTR hates me, read below to see how.

          In a 2004 auction, Trump snapped up the property from Gosman's Chapter 7 Bankruptcy Estate for $41 million, according to property records.

          During the 4 year period, property prices were rising quickly. Assuming Trump made a decent deal, as he is known to do, puts some money into and flips it when the market peaks.

          In such a situation, depending on how much he spent renovating it, he makes somewhere under $50m.

          That represents .... 0.5% of his wealth. So 0.5% made from sales to Russia, and 99.5% made doing the exact same shit elsewhere.

          Now, it is a nice deal and I'm sure he enjoyed it. But...

          He bought it at an auction. He didn't pay market price. He sold it at the peak of the market.

          So, we aren't talking about getting $50m out of nowhere. You compare today's market value, but Russian guy CAN'T get profit.

          Neither can millions of other home owners. In fact, millions that bought at the peak had their homes foreclosed on. Others, who could keep them, CAN'T get profit either.

          Trump on Nov. 3 was not a public servant, had top notch security but needed to meet this Russian in person because ....

          The important thing is WHY?

          Why with the media hounding him about Russia and the best privacy money can buy, a huge staff, and a very public schedule with crowds meeting his plane would he give up everything for some random Russian?

          A Russian who "did not make any other trips to North Carolina in recent history". Wow, so you're a law student, eh?

          Very cunning use of language. So, this Random Russian has been there before not too long ago. Gotcha.

          Hmmm:

          The realtor who sold the house has stated that he never move...the Chinese do it all the time!

          Again, I don't know if this is a clever play on words, such as he's been renting it, but (haha) he never moved in, or is just you providing a common example of what rich Chinese people do (I say this married to a woman from China): overpay and never move in?

          This is one of my favourites:

          Trump's son made 6 trips in 18 months to Russia before 2008–then a Russian oligarch showers Trump with $95M.

          The opportunities for lawyerese abound. But let's go to the most striking. You go from just basic he bought it at auction for fair market price (he wouldn't), didn't renovate (he wouldn't), watch the property market increase by 55%, and then sold it for $95m, making a profit of $32m more than the worst case scenario and that becomes:

          a Russian oligarch showers Trump with $95M.

          Well done.

          [–]TheEmoSpeeds666 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Not in any way a regular. I thought this was supposed to be a free and open discussion.

          The first I was aware of this was as the #20 post on all. No politics "brigade", despite the fact that anti-Clinton conspiracies are often based on more dubious evidence and are never touched.

          All I see on my travels through all from this sub is anti-clinton, BS pizzagate shit. SHE LOST, GET OVER IT! I bet you've used that a few times recently, eh mods?

          That's twice now that anti-Trump rhetoric has been targeted by the mod staff. It's almost as if there's a conspiracy...

          Edit: a word

          [–]Luke_H 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Moreover, numerous posts are mirrored from r/the_donald to this sub but never flaired by moderators as such.

          [–]TheEmoSpeeds666 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I think we're onto something. Quick, we need a push pin board and some red string!

          [–]DrHenryPym -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

          That's so weird because all I saw were a bunch of sheep from /r/all bitching about the sub and mods.

          It's almost as if there's a brigade...

          [–]TheEmoSpeeds666 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          You can brigade on all now?

          THIS IS HUGE? TO THE TOP!

          [–]DrHenryPym 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Well, yeah... How do you think CTR works?

          They manipulate everything that falls into /r/all's path. Where have you been the past year?

          [–]PYMTS 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Who is this 'they' you speak of? I would like to get to the bottom of who 'they' are that control CTR and make it work.

          [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

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          [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

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          [–]williamsates [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

          Dmitry Rybolovlev, a Monaco-based fertilizer king has a net worth estimated at $7.7 billion. In 2008, he bought a 17-bedroom Florida mansion, pretentiously named “Maison l’Amite,”or the Friendly House, from Trump for $95 million.

          Now he says he wants to tear down the Friendly House, reportedly due to a mold problem, at a cost of $234,000.

          Possibly owing to his divorce woes, Rybolovlev later told a court during a deposition that he didn’t even own the house. Trump replied in the press that “somebody paid me $100 million” for it.

          Source: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/11/06/trump-s-russia-towers-he-just-can-t-get-them-up.html

          [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          Now he says he wants to tear down the Friendly House, reportedly due to a mold problem, at a cost of $234,000.

          This... is untrue. He divided it into 3 lots and sold them tryinig to make a profit...

          [–]lolshovels 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          Where is the proof that your picture of Trump's airplane is at the Charlotte Airport on November 3, 2016?

          This article says that Trump flew into Concord Regional Airport when he made a speech in Concord. According to the flight history of Dmitry's plane, he had left Concord and flew to Charlotte well before Trump would have arrived.

          Trump had an earlier speech at Noon EST in Florida. After his speech in Concord, he left immediately for another speech.

          I'd like to see some more evidence. At least with Bill and Loretta we had local news leaking the pictures, which led to the national news being forced to talk about it.

          Trump's real estate sale to Dmitry was already talked about in the news back in July, 2016. Looking into Dmitry's history it appears that he was trying hide a lot of money from his wife whom he went through a very messy divorce. According to the Telegraph, the divorce started in 2008.

          It seems like it is more likely that Trump got lucky and ran into a very motivated buyer.

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C2WXwWUUAAEGymU.jpg

          The NC national guard building is in the bg, it is next to Charlotte not Concord, irregardless guess what? Dmitry was in Concord too that day.

          [–]lolshovels -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Trump was in Charlotte on different dates. He was never in Charlotte on November 3.

          Being somewhere on the same day is not the same as being there at the same time. Dmitry had probably left Concord hours before Trump arrived.

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          He was 30 min away from Charlotte airport giving a rally on 11/3/16. Why are you lying? Concord is a 30 min drive from Charlotte, even less by plane. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Uw_gLS3fJk

          [–]lolshovels 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          30 minutes away from Charlotte airport is not being at the Charlotte airport.

          Your claim is that they were at the Charlotte airport at the same time, when you have yet to prove Trump was there.

          Trump gave a speech at Concord, which according to past articles, he used the Concord Regional Airport and not the Charlotte Airport as his arrival destination.

          Dmitry, according to your flight records had left Concord hours before Trump would have arrived, because he was giving a speech in Jacksonville, FL.

          [–]anothercarguy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

          Wasn't it Ivanka not DT?

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

          What makes you think that?

          [–]anothercarguy 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Well the picture she posed for and the subsequent article about it. I'm mobile, won't google it but if you are desktop take a look

          [–]pb2crazy[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

          I can't find anything...

          [–]Dawg1shly [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

          I'm going to call BS on this because you clearly didn't even try to look. The top posts when you google "Ivanka Trump Charlotte" are Nov 2 articles saying she will be in Charlotte the next day campaigning for her dad.

          All that work to plant a fake conspiracy here. I hope you are at least getting compensated for this.

          [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

          No... you are the one lying. It doesn't matter where Ivanka was, Trump did 2 rallies in NC on Nov 3rd. One in Concord and one in Selma. His plane landed in Selma that evening - where Rybolovlev's plane took off after but this doesn't matter. But his plane in the morning, was in Charlotte NC airport (it is too big to fit into Concord airport, see the pic of it at Charlotte airport, you can see the NC national guard building in the background) which is a 20-30 min drive from where his rally was held.

          I don't know why you are lying. Need I post pics of my abysmally low bank account? Who is paying YOU to lie?

          Compare the pic of the NC guard building to the imgur links provided with donalds plane:

          http://www.ang.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/2014/10/140919-Z-AW931-119.JPG

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlotte_Douglas_International_Airport

          You people lie SO MUCH! Who is paying you?

          [–]WhatIfLove [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

          Why is Dawg1shly lying? There's nothing in his post he can lie about? He posted the #1 google search and you're calling him a liar? Shit..

          [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Because my post is talking about NOVEMBER THIRD. His talks about NOVEMBER SECOND. He is trying to distract, classic disinfo psyops tactic, nice try from the Kremlin.

          コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

            [–]silkchoad 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Follow Adam Khan - @Khanoisseur - on twitter. He broke this story weeks ago and is diving deep on the Trump-Russia connections.

            Absolutely essential source.

            [–]Dawg1shly [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

            It was Ivanka Trump in Charlotte that day using Dad's plane. Dad was in Concord.

            [–]silkchoad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            So?

            Also, for what it's worth "that day" is the second, pictures are of the third if I'm not mistaken.

            [–]mrgrippa -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            Hmm two self posts with identical content and links

            https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5osrxy/trump_had_a_secret_meeting_with_russian_oligarch/?st=IY3OI12P&sh=d73b4faa

            [–]pb2crazy[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Yes, I reposted this, because the first post I made was deleted by the mods after it hit #21 on /r/all. I reposted it with the addendum the mod asked me to make. Someone else beat me to it because they were impatient, I guess.

            [–]mrgrippa -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I'm not a fan of censoring, but posting the exact same thread they deleted is probably going to have the exact same results.

            [–]andrewmathman17 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            He was asked to change the title to be more speculative and less "matter-of-fact", which is why he reposted with slightly different title

            [–]Treebeezy 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Actually, the title has changed. A mod has already commented in this thread thanking him for changing the title.

            [–]Putin_loves_cats -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

            The important thing is WHY?

            Both are businessmen. What a shocker...

            [–]InsalubriousEthos 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            It's the business they're involved in that's suspicious, plus the secrecy involved in the (potential) meeting, and the conflicts of interest that extend from this happening to someone who was in the running to become the head of state.

            [–]Putin_loves_cats 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It's the business they're involved in that's suspicious, plus the secrecy involved in the (potential) meeting,

            Do we actually know if they met, and if they did, why would you be surprised by secrecy considering the two individuals who we are talking about? Both billionaires, who I'm sure are high priority targets.

            and the conflicts of interest that extend from this happening to someone who was in the running to become the head of state.

            What conflicts of interest?

            コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

              [–]NoelTrotsky 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

              Wow is this story going to blow up when the MSM gets it's teeth into it. Doesn't seem to be any evidence of who met with who at the airport but there is sure a lot of smoke.

              I disagree with your comment on 'history with suspicious real estate deals". Trump wouldn't be the first nor will he be the last to make a massive profit off a high value property. Sure bribing people could involve real estate purchases but that deal happened 10 years ago...what did Trump do for Russia to give him millions way back then? You can't be implying Russia owns Trump and has owned him for 10 years now...are you? I don't think Trump has given much value to Russia in all those years.

              So far I only suspect a meeting. Trump meets lots of very rich people. This one is Russian. Difficult to make the leap to Election rigging and Quid Pro quo. Good story to investigate however!

              [–]pb2crazy[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

              MSM ignoring it for 2 months now, people have messaged CNN all the time

              [–]BraveNewFrog [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              CNN still getting over the massive 4chan troll. Going to be tough to recover I'd be shy too!

              [–]WhatIfLove [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              Probably means they looked into it and couldn't find anything huh? They like to run anything that is Anti-Trump.

              [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              No... MSM only posts stuff that gets them $$$$$$$$. Like Ivanka's dress and Trump's press conferences. Nice try comrade.

              [–]PEDOSforTRUMP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5otnhj/another_shitstorm_erupts_in_rconspiracy_when_a/

              [–]AutoModerator[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

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              [–]LAcumDodgers [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              As you will notice, this thread is slowly lowering in vote percentage as the real users of this sub get to the post. The 1st one was massively upvoted from /r/all and /r/politics and was close to 90%. This 2nd one was at 80+% when I first saw it and noticed it was instantly gilded....and now has been dropping steadily as more and more people of /r/conspiracy read it

              [–]pb2crazy[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              no, it is being downvoted. why is it being downvoted? because the_donald started brigading via their discord with /pol/.

              [–]LAcumDodgers [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              LOL. The 1st one was proven to be brigaded from /r/politics. This one is AGAIN LOWER compared to when I posted my last comment with just the regulars here of /r/conspiracy haha

              [–]AWokenBeetle -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              This quote is in response to a poster I was debating with that sums up how I feel...

              "I wonder of those three million votes what number wasn't a result of ballot stuffing and busing in illegal immigrants over the border to vote. The Midwest states (my home state of Michigan among them) remember what it was like to have jobs in their region, they remember what it was like to earn a livable wage independent of government assistance which only gives enough crumbs to quit them, they remember what life was like before NAFTA of which Bill Clinton signed, sealed, and delivered to the moneyed interest. The trade deal that ruined their lives and opportunity, they knew full well that Hillary Clinton would usher in the equally if not more destructive TPP and wanted nothing to do with it, and so, they went with man who said he would (and did) destroy the TPP, restructure NAFTA, and give them back their lives.

              That's why I voted for him and that's why he won. Now we'll see where this goes.".

              [–]pb2crazy[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Wtf does this have to do with OP? This is what the thread was deleted for...?

              [–]AWokenBeetle [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Because the question I responded to was from a post in the thread before this one that talked about this Russia nonsense.

              [–]BraveNewFrog -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              The MSM isn't reporting on this because they are secretly on the Trump Train and are about to reveal themselves as track suit wearing Russian paid hackers then OMG Hillary is President and I'm literally shaking. So you have pictures of airplanes at an airport and some weak speculation. Not a conspiracy.

              [–]LAcumDodgers [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Hahaha you made me almost spit out my beer. Nice

              [–]IoPA_inOR -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Maybe Trump is mostly trying to put the brakes on the rush to conflict Democrats and the MSM seem to want.

              [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

              [removed]

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