1913
1914

Scotland: Woman successfully sues alleged rapists after judge rules that "through an excessive intake of alcohol... (she) was incapable of giving meaningful consent." (bbc.co.uk)

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[–]StrongShallInherit 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (28子コメント)

What if he was drunk? Why are women automatically the victim and men the aggressor if both are equally drunk?

[–]IHateYourCommet 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (27子コメント)

What if you had actually read the article and saw the part about her literally not having control of her motor functions? Why don't you take an honest look at yourself and think about why a clear cut rape conviction makes you so upset?

[–]StrongShallInherit -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I did. If he was having trouble walking and talking should he get a pass?

[–]David_Carlson198 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Now theh won't reply bc they know you caught them.

[–]Arkham2015 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Then maybe I'll reply. There has to be a hypothetical here because this is the first kind of case Scotland has seen.

It opens the door for other cases like this.

Look, this is not always clear and cut. Someone taking advantage of a drunk person is not the same thing as two people getting drunk and then the one person can't remember saying yes the next day.

And yes, men can be victims too.

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    [–]acroman39 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Can't you read? He posed a hypothetical based upon the events in the article. Chill out.

    [–]Arkham2015 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    The point is, IHateYourCommet, is that such a case like this opens up the door for other civil cases that could be wrong.

    If two people, a man and a woman, both get drunk and have sex, but when the woman wakes up and claims she doesn't remember consenting and that she wants to go after the man, then there's a serious problem.

    I've been reading a lot of these comments and the vibe I'm getting is that if the woman is drunk, there can be no consent. However, if it's a guy, well, whatever...

    [–]Jurgen44 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Did you skip over the fact that this was just a statement from a witness?

    [–]John_Ketch [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

    No conviction here, it's a civil case. Also, nice strawman, expressing concerns about this case SURELY makes you a budding rapist.

    [–]FallacyExplnationBot [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Hi! Here's a summary of the term "Strawman":

    A straw man is logical fallacy that occurs when a debater intentionally misrepresents their opponent's argument as a weaker version and rebuts that weak & fake version rather than their opponent's genuine argument. Intentional strawmanning usually has the goal of [1] avoiding real debate against their opponent's real argument, because the misrepresenter risks losing in a fair debate, or [2] making the opponent's position appear ridiculous and thus win over bystanders.

    Unintentional misrepresentations are also possible, but in this case, the misrepresenter would only be guilty of simple ignorance. While their argument would still be fallacious, they can be at least excused of malice.

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        [–]Coquistadorable 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (80子コメント)

        No one ever asks men for consent

        [–]I-come-from-Chino 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        That's not true or relevant to this article.

        [–]Seshia 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

        If someone rapes a drunk man, sue her ass and use this as precident.

        [–]ericmm76 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        No one is against this. There are no people saying men cannot be raped. All feminists are for this.

        [–]rocdollary 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (11子コメント)

        I assume the comment was alluding to the fact that under UK law, a woman cannot rape a man, therefore cannot be charged for it.

        [–]House_Slytherin 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (10子コメント)

        Wait, there's still a law like that? In the U.K. Of all places?

        [–]Paladin_Tyrael 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        ....are you surprised? Nobody gives a shit about rape victims, male or female. We're treated like liabilities to society and shunned for daring to speak.

        [–]0000010000000101 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        People don't like people who are sorry for themselves, regardless how justified. Advocates also treat rape as if it were basically as bad as murder or crippling bodily harm. It rationally isn't so people have a hard time reconciling the position but are afraid to talk about it because any nuance or specificity is treated as defending rape by the same (loud) advocates.

        [–]Strephyl -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        They can still be charged with sexual assault.

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          [–]fencerman 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (5子コメント)

          Is there ANY category of rape victims that doesn't get shit on for coming forward?

          Literally the only kinds of cases that anyone seems to tolerate without comment are "complete stranger rapes a virtuous, sober white female virgin in a dark alleyway".

          Anything else involving alcohol, minorities, parties, past sexual hisotry, or existing relationships automatically means they look for reasons to blame the victim. Of course, those represent the overwhelming majority of cases, to the point that an "ideal rape victim" effectively doesn't exist at all.

          Yes, unfortunately that does include men in the "not an ideal rape victim" category, and that is absolutely injustice too. But it's hardly exclusive to men - believing rape victims in general is a big issue that society doesn't want to deal with.

          [–]tdmoneybanks 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          well its a big issue that keeps getting fueled by a bunch of high profile lies. duke lacrosse? jackie?

          [–]fencerman 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Maybe in the same way that "the crime rate is at an all-time high" because crime gets reported on more.

          [–]heysop 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I would guess the reason that people question those cases more is because they could more likely find themselves in a situation where they are being accused (rightfully or wrongfully) of committing those types of rapes. I imagine 99.999999% of people know they would never attack someone and rape them in an alleyway or drug someone's drink. They can probably imagine a case where a drunk hookup where they didn't realize how drunk the other person was at the time could happen to them. It sucks that some of the people questioning don't see how their questions can come off as victim-blaming, but I have to think at least some of them don't mean for it to be.

          Edit: I don't know what the reasoning for not believing minorities could be, besides racism.

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            [–]spru9 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Now is not the time for that discussion.

            [–]ravelincolor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Serious question: assuming woman on man rape: how does a man get an erection if he doesn't want it?

            [–]sestras 157 ポイント158 ポイント  (43子コメント)

            Look, I feel like the core of what you're saying is "sexual assault on men is often overlooked, belittled, or thought of as not real assault" - which I agree with. As a society we need to overhaul the idea that men cannot be victims of rape or taken advantage of.

            That said, there was a witness that states this woman looked like she "needed an ambulance ... eyes rolling ... unable to stand ... not compos mentis". Having sex with someone, male or female, when they're in that condition is rape. The fact that men suffer from this too does not take away from the fact that this woman was raped.

            [–]Runnerphone 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (29子コメント)

            My issue is more it's always on the guy about consent if both people are hammered it's always the delicate flower of a women that was violated never the man. Well technically cops are suppose to go with who ever reports first but having said that even then it's almost always on the guy. Years ago there was a big string of assualts in the military as I work for the dod I had to go to a bunch of sexual assault breifings the commander we'll both(worked on an AFB but worked for the Navy so sure double breifings) didn't seem to understand stand when I asked why the breifings only covered guys and why it was payed out as the guys responsible but didn't hold females to the same standard. Both looked at me like they didn't understand and still insisted even in my example of both being drunk the guy is responsible for his actions while the girl is seemingly not.

            [–]yuliajunkie -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (25子コメント)

            My issue is more it's always on the guy about consent if both people are hammered it's always the delicate flower of a women that was violated never the man.

            I always thought it was because a lot of alcohol acts as a depressant, can decrease sexual desire, but most of all make it difficult for a man to get an erection. And overdoing it can cause erectile dysfunction...

            Researchers have found that too much alcohol affects both your brain and your penis. In one University of Washington study, sober men were able to achieve an erection more quickly than intoxicated men — and some men are unable to have an erection at all after drinking.

            So reading this, makes me think he's not that drunk.

            [–]Numericaly7 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (15子コメント)

            And overdoing it can cause erectile dysfunction...

            That doesn't apply to all men though. Some are immune from whiskey dick.

            [–]yuliajunkie 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

            Well, research often generalizes to the population. So yes, some may not, but there are a significant bunch who do.

            How can we tell who might be lying? Maybe we should get them good and drunk and test it out? I am being sarcastic of course.

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                [–]ericmm76 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Do you not hear the sexism in your own speech?

                [–]StarBeastTheSecond [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                He was taking the piss out of people who give double standards, retard.

                If you think men need to comply by a rule but women don't, then it is you that is sexist. Because you think women are delicate little flowers or snowflakes or too stupid or whatever to be able to make a decision.

                Now, stop feigning outrage and get a grip on reality.

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                  [–]Foamloller 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                  What if both parties are equally intoxicated and they both have consent before they became intoxicated?

                  [–]milky_oolong 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  Two ambulance needing, eye rolling, unable to stand and mentally absent people are NOT having sex, come on.

                  [–]inflateingrateabate 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  If they are equally intoxicated and equally consenting then it is fine. Obviously. Or even if there is a degree of trust, prior consent and only the women is drunk (unless she seems distressed in her stupor/he does something she did not consent to). Or sleeping, I think sleeping sex can be consensual in certain circumstances.

                  And if they are both in need of an ambulance then they shouldn't be able to have sex. So no issue there

                  But if one person is not capable of standing or talking or focusing their eyes (or the harder task of consenting/ having sex) and someone manages to have sex with them.....maybe (just maybe) they got raped.

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                        [–]nicholakus -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                        If a woman gets drunk, stumbles into another drunk woman and things happen. Who is the rapist in that case?

                        [–]Demosnam -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        The male bystander because he watched it happen and he has a dick. EZ

                        [–]jnkml16 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Obviously the less attractive one. Obviously.

                        [–]templikeachilles -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Neither. Women can't be guilty of rape.

                        [–]Frantic_Mantid 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        If someone trolls a rape thread, is it because he thinks women deserve to be raped?

                        Is it because he fears that treating women like people will make his life worse?

                        Will he ever ask himself why he gets upset when he hears that a guy will get in trouble for raping a girl who's wasted?

                        So many questions!

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                          [–]idontgive2fucks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                          This is why I don't drink. Not worth all that bullshit in your life just to get loose.

                          [–]Nigan4 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          So, I'm a bit confused.. U don't give a fuck? Or 2 fuks?

                          [–]FatFreddysCoat 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                          The only thing I don't like about this is that she wanted £500k compensation... I find that a bit unsavoury and would find it equally unsavoury if it was a man claiming it from a woman or other man etc. It cheapens the whole thing and makes it look all about the money, regardless of who assaulted / raped etc who.

                          It's a horrible situation to be in though: I invited a really drunk girl back to my old flat one night about 10 years ago (we were both trashed tbh) but I started to sober up a little quicker than her before anything happened and I realised she was serious crazy: crying hysterically because she'd apparently lost track of her friend that night, rambling about this and that ... no way was I dealing with that but when I said I should get her a taxi she acted MORE crazy, asking didn't I like her any more, what was wrong with her, she really wanted to fuck me etc etc.

                          I set the voice recorder on my phone running and it took me 4 hours to talk her into getting into a taxi that I'd call for her. Was so glad I had that recording as we were both trashed but I guarantee you if she'd turned out to be a madwoman and called the police because I rejected her they'd have arrested me first and asked questions later (it's the UK policy to assume the accuser is telling the truth in sexual assault cases, rather than approach it with an open mind as with most other cases).

                          [–]collegegreens [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          makes it look all about the money

                          It's almost as if it is...

                          [–]ranaadnanm [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                          Clever choice with the recording. Atleast, you kept yourself safe from potential trouble, unlike that girl.

                          [–]FatFreddysCoat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          I was seriously worried, believe me - maybe I'd seen something on TV or somewhere else that prompted me to do it but I slept better (at 7am when I finally got rid of her) knowing I had that proof nothing happened.

                          Just in case I ever need to make a covert recording for any reason now I downloaded an app that starts recording when I hit the power button 3x

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                            [–]Eversor13 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (44子コメント)

                            Good ruling! As an aside... I've had a few talks with some more philosophically minded friends about alcohol inhibition and the ability to consent.

                            It's been stated quite repeatedly, and accurately, that it's impossible to give true consent while intoxicated, but how is an intoxicated person able to give their "true consent" when they decide to drive through an inhibited thought process? (Aka, how can our laws make someone responsible while drunk in one scenario and a victim in another scenario).

                            I understand the 'scourge' of drunk driving quite well, my father's firefighting stories attest to that, however I've had several friends (including my father from his college years...) describe stories of when they drove drunk and only realized the next day how bad of an idea it is. Thoughts reddit?

                            [–]dafuqisdismain -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            because people are looking at the wrong way. The real answer is that if you give consent no matter your level of inebriation, if you were the one who got yourself to that level of inebriation, you are responsible for the actions. That holds true whether you are a guy or a girl. No one should be getting so drunk that they lose control over themselves, and furthermore you have to get stunningly drunk before you are able to consent without meaning it.

                            [–]Witeside -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            This, this, a thousand of this. 'Taking responsibility for your own actions' is just another virtue that cultures are loosing.

                            [–]acroman39 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Along with the ability to spell.

                            [–]dafuqisdismain [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            But I have wonderful blissful news for you, before Trumps election, which was just a canary in the coal mine since the under 30 vote was split over SJW issues, this conversation would have gotten us banned. I know that because I've been banned like six times on this sub for saying what I just said. This is the first time Ive had people agree with the concept of personal responsibility around inebriation.

                            The seas are changing, and definitely for the better.

                            [–]lowercaset -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (13子コメント)

                            Because in one scenario there two people, in the other there's just the drunk. Can't blame the car and someone has to be legally responsible so it gets put on the drunk.

                            [–]dafuqisdismain -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                            Or maybe women are totally responsible for not getting that drunk in the first place. And maybe if you consent to something regardless of whether you're sober or not it's your fault as long as you were the person who got yourself that fucked up.

                            i'm not defending the stupid piece of shit guys who take advantage of that, but like here's a better example when a dumbass buys one of Alex Jones fake supplements it's Alex Jones fall yeah, but it's also the dumbasses fault. but at the same time everyone considers it to be more of the dumbasses fault because the dumbass is the one who ultimately made all the choices leading up to that. Had they just made better choices they wouldn't have been defrauded. The same goes for when bad things happen to drunk people. Don't get that drunk, use better drugs.

                            [–]daanno2 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                            Thought experiment: if a friend convinced you to drive home drunk and you got pulled over, would your friend be held 100% legally responsible?

                            See, something doesn't add up with how society treats decision making and intoxication.

                            [–]martinneedshelp [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            Not a good ruling..

                            [–]MajorWindowPane [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            What of babies born of drunk intercourse and mother files for child support? If neither party was in a state of mind to consent and the child wasn't planned should the father be legally bound to support the child? What if the father wanted an abortion and the mother did not but also wanted to collect child support. Could the father make a legal case that the father could not consent to the intercourse that caused an unwanted conception?

                            [–]Enichola10 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                            If it's impossible to give consent while intoxicated, then wouldn't every case of drunken sex be considered rape?

                            [–]Cogmeister17 -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                            I once fucked a fat chick while extremely intoxicated, and she was sober. Should I file rape charges since I regret doing it? Being drunk doesn't handicap women any more than men. If consent can't be given from a drunk woman, then men can't give consent either. Equality. Isn't that what they want?

                            [–]Itaintrightman -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            truecel#incel#oppressed#sufferebros#noonewantsme#helphelp#ihatefatchicks#whywontchickssleepwithme#MGTOW#tumblerina

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                              [–]dafuqisdismain 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              that's why I maintain that if you give consent under any state of inebriation as long as you were the person who got yourself to that state of inebriation you are responsible. The answer is don't get so drunk you don't know what you're doing. Why is anyone ever getting that drunk? Do better drugs.

                              Women have a tendency it seems in American society to not want to take responsibility for their actions under any state of consciousness. That needs to end.

                              [–]applefrank 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              That is the direction we're heading.

                              [–]milky_oolong 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                              You're conflating two things. Intoxicated (but able to choose to have sex, signal it, enthustiastically participate in it, walk, talk, move coordinately but you know, drunk, impulsive, spend too much money, find people more attractive and interesting, courageously sing karaoke and take stupid fotos, etc.) and intoxicated (unable to walk straight, passing in and out of consciousness, glassy eyed and non-responsive, unable to answer questions logically or follow a train of thought, not enthusiastically participating).

                              Drunk sex with intoxication situation one - no prob. Second one - prob.

                              As for the idea that two people both heavily intoxicated do this, think of it as a train crash, but it's quite unlikely as someone still needs to be coordinated enough to actually power things along.

                              [–]EatPizzaWithRanch 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              Preach.

                              I've had plenty of drunk and even blackout sex that I take responsibility for and have no regrets about.

                              I've also been passed out in my own bed and awoken to find a cock I had never seen before in between my legs.

                              I was intoxicated in both scenarios, but the second one was not acceptable like the first. My consent was in no way given.

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                                [–]herearemyquestions -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                I am so glad this woman took the time to sue her rapists and make the world safer for others.

                                [–]Sneezegoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                It didn't reall make anything safer. It might inspire more people to speak out when they are in these situations but those men are not going to prison.

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                                  [–]TheNobleSellsword 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                  I like this story because it shows that there really is a point that people can not adequately do anything after drinking so much. I'm a guy, I used to go out all the time. I went out with all types of groups and there are for sure scummy people in all of them, and they do deserve trouble for their transgressions.

                                  However, I don't like this story because it almost sets a precedent that is a scary slippery slope. How can we ensure that no one pleads that they were too drunk to make that decision because they woke up and didn't like their partner in the light? Or a scorned lover who uses this as a way to get back?

                                  I imagine I will be bashed into oblivion. Which is fine, I'll stand here and wait for it. I just firmly believe that we need to be educating people about the dangers of society and how to properly protect themselves. Maybe if we did a better job of putting the responsibility of the safety of the public upon the public people could perhaps come together and stop this before it even happens.

                                  [–]Galaxycalderwood [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                  I'll give you some protips. Check their ID to make sure they're legal, never give your last/real name, pay with cash at a bar you don't frequent, and leave right after. The absolute last thing I need in my life is a rape allegation to ruin all my future prospects. Not saying all women call rape in regret/jealousy but it DOES happen and I'd rather play it safe.

                                  [–]possiblycurious 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                  Don't fuck drunk people. It's not that hard.

                                  My own husband will tell me no if I seem impaired - I.E. stumbling, slurred speech, etc.

                                  [–]StarBeastTheSecond [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  Drunk person has sex with drunk person.

                                  Drunk person regrets it so drunk person calls police.

                                  Drunk person arrested and jailed for subjective opinion about drunk person's state of mind.

                                  Drunk person happy.

                                  Drunk person sad.

                                  Don't you just feel sorry for drunk person in this little narrative?!

                                  [–]Einlanser [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                  If men have to default to abstinence in situations of ambiguity, they might not get to fuck the person they want to fuck. How they react to that realization (mature understanding, hemming and hawing, outrage) says an awful lot about them.

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                                    [–]juhsayngul 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (16子コメント)

                                    However, I don't like this story because it almost sets a precedent that is a scary slippery slope. How can we ensure that no one pleads that they were too drunk to make that decision because they woke up and didn't like their partner in the light? Or a scorned lover who uses this as a way to get back?

                                    Then it would have to be decided in court. Usually that requires a lot of common sense.

                                    [–]Hdueidiriirr 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                    Who wants to risk that though? Just dont have sex with people who drink. Problem solved.

                                    [–]5GKxh7acGs3RQfb [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                                    No. People should be held responsible for their actions. Problem solved.

                                    If you drive drunk you don't get to plead "I couldn't consent to driving! The alcohol made me do it!" To say "I had sex while drunk, I couldn't consent!" Is totally insane.

                                    It's inexcusable to blame someone else for the choices you made because you decided to alter your mental state. If you regret it later, lesson learned, don't do it again. Not their fault you made a bad decision.

                                    People go to pubs and clubs to get fucked up and fuck. That's human nature. If they didn't want to do that, they shouldn't be there, and they shouldn't blame others for their choices.

                                    [–]Random_Tangent [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                                    Why don't you want to hold the person who rapes the drunk person responsible for their actions?

                                    [–]5GKxh7acGs3RQfb [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                                    The very definition of "rape" is what's in question. "Too drunk to consent" is nonsense. Two people get drunk and hook up, one or both of them regrets it later, that's not rape it's just regret. It's insulting.

                                    There are people actually being raped, and these regretful people are wasting the courts time suing their one night stand to protect their precious egos.

                                    [–]Random_Tangent [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                    Too drunk to consent is not nonsense. Don't rape people. It's not difficult.

                                    [–]5GKxh7acGs3RQfb [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                    It's complete nonsense. Again, if you drive drunk, you don't get to claim you didn't consent. If you fuck drunk, you don't get to claim you didn't consent.

                                    [–]dumasymptote [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    If you are also drunk and making impaired decisions is it really just that easy?

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                                        [–]172116 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                        However, I don't like this story because it almost sets a precedent that is a scary slippery slope. How can we ensure that no one pleads that they were too drunk to make that decision because they woke up and didn't like their partner in the light? Or a scorned lover who uses this as a way to get back?

                                        There were several witnesses who testified that she was incredibly drunk. The bouncer wanted to call her an ambulance, she was so drunk.

                                        [–]badchris [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                        But he didn't so obviously it wasn't THAT bad

                                        [–]daanno2 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                        Poster literally says "sets a precedent that is a scary slippery slope".

                                        [–]172116 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                        There is a fucking massive difference between being witnessed so drunk you can't stand, and taking someone's word for them being a bit tipsy.

                                        [–]Taavi00 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                        I think you don't understand what a slippery slope means. It means exactly that: you start with case that's very obviously one way (like this one) but then where do you draw the line? How about when you can stand but stumble from time to time? How about when you can walk but you are blabbering a bit? And so on.

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                                          [–]5GKxh7acGs3RQfb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                          The solution is 24/7 body cameras, and CCTV in every bedroom.

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                                            [–]Barbara118 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            Ok, she's not the sharpest tool in the shed for losing control of herself with alcohol in a public place (doesn't she have any friends?), but these guys need to be held accountable. What I can't wrap my head around is that these guys are fairly good looking, play sports, and can't get laid without resorting to someone who is barely conscious! Let's hope none of the parties involved propagate.

                                            [–]collegegreens [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            What I can't wrap my head around is that these guys are fairly good looking, play sports, and can't get laid without resorting to someone who is barely conscious!

                                            That's because they were probably drunk too.

                                            [–]FabianM65 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                            Then the MRAs attacked.

                                            [–]Tisias [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            They usually have a valid point buried somewhere under a ton of vitriol and paranoia.

                                            [–]Z0di [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            They have a point with this topic.

                                            [–]lukelnk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                            Serious question that's related in that it has to do with drinking. I never drank a lot, but the few times I have I never reached a point even close to not being able to remember everything that occurred. I understand people drinking until they blackout, or at least that it happens. But are some people really unable to remember their previous night of drinking due to consuming a certain amount of alcohol? Or is it just an excuse to act out while drinking, to avoid responsibility to a degree?

                                            [–]KnightfallProtocol [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

                                            This will probably get downvoted to shit because I'm proposing an alternate perspective, one that doesn't line up with the ruling/isn't the most politically correct but here it goes...

                                            I honestly believe if the roles were reversed this would have never been a successful lawsuit. No man would win this. Also, this is a crazy slipper slope. How does one determine who is "incapable of giving meaningful consent" when under the influence and who isn't? How do we determine the proper amount of alcohol intake before that's an issue?

                                            Obviously if someone passes out or can't even walk they're in capable of consent to anything, let alone sex. (I bet there's some sort of protection against tattoos? maybe not, probably should be) And in this particular case, given the evidence presented, it's clear she was taken advantage of. I just think this opens a whole new can of worms that people haven't really considered. Like, let's flip it around. If someone was too drunk to know the difference between right and wrong, then couldn't that technically get the, off the hook for committing a different crime? Like assault or something. I know "assault" and "rape" are different, obviously, it's just I think a defense team can twist this around in some other area to use it to their advantage.

                                            Should she have won the case? Absolutely. Is this a slippery slope? Yes. Has anyone thought about what other implications this might lead to? Probably not.

                                            [–]Random_Tangent [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                                            A slippery slope is a logically fallacious argument, not a thing that happens.

                                            [–]KnightfallProtocol [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                                            How so? There are examples of it, it exists in life. Not like it's a phrase that carries no weight.

                                            [–]funwithcock69 [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

                                            It's disturbing to see all the victim blaming in this thread. Maybe it's because rape is such an emotive topic. How about rather than "rape" we use a proxy like "remove your kidneys"?

                                            Removing your kidneys is not illegal. If you've asked for it and the other person is sure you consent. Of course we might warn someone "don't get too drunk or someone might remove your kidneys". Still, if that happened we would still absolutely punish the person who stole those kidneys without consent if we found them (whether they were drunk or not).

                                            Just because your victim was drunk doesn't mean you didn't commit a crime.

                                            [–]throwingmytimeaway [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

                                            If the "victim" consents while drunk, why is that consent not valid the next day?

                                            [–]Gyshall669 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Poor analogy because rape is a particular kind of unlawful sex.

                                            [–]Tisias [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            So long as it goes both ways fine. Screw a guy who is drunk and you could be a rapist too.

                                            And we should remember that you get yourself drunk. Unless someone forced a tube down your throat, you place yourself in a context of diminished capacity on purpose. This is why "I was drunk, I didn't know" is not an excuse for drunk driving.

                                            If someone is passing out, male or female, they cannot give consent and it is predatory to position them for sex.

                                            The hard part is what if you're just drunk or buzzed and you do something you wouldn't normally do sober?

                                            If you are drunk yourself, how reliably can you measure another party's sobriety?

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                                              [–]MrPeanutButter86 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              I cannot tell you how many women I have had to turn down because I knew the feelings were alcohol induced.

                                              Anyone that sleeps with an intoxicated person, for their first time, is guilty in my book. Unless, of course, both of you are trashed.

                                              It is great that this is being considered these days.

                                              [–]svengalus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              TIL: My wife has raped me 100's if not 1000's of times.

                                              [–]puck_alive 80 ポイント81 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                              ITT: No one who understands how informed consent works.

                                              [–]sweetcrutons [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              But to offset that there's plenty of "what about the menz"

                                              [–]inflateingrateabate 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                              To the assholes who like to spam 2x, every incident involving a woman alcohol and rape, has her clearly wanting sex but regretting it later. They think that all feminists think this is rape if the woman had any alcohol.

                                              Not the scenario that most people imagine where one person is too drunk to have sex or understand what is happening and another person, who may be intoxicated, but has the ability to actually do things like walking, undressing and keeping their eyes open.

                                              [–]Galaxycalderwood [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                              Not all but there certainly are cases. I've had sex with a number of women and regretted it the next day. Never occurred to me that I should file rape charges, though maybe I'll try it for the memes.

                                              [–]epanchin [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                              If you could stand, you probably weren't in the same league of drunkenness.

                                              [–]wut3va [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                              a woman alcohol and rape, has her clearly wanting sex but regretting it later

                                              Those things do happen too though. I understand that is most likely not the case here, but I have personally been on the wrong end of exactly the scenario described, as a guy. I didn't get charged with anything, but I did lose all of my friends, and it was the worst year of my life afterwords. All because a drunk girl I was friends with jumped in my bed, undressed me, and proceeded to have her way with me, and also hung out with me and my friends the entire next day, 2 days later decided she regretted it because I didn't call her back soon enough and told everyone I knew that I must have taken advantage of her. All of my friends became white knights and wouldn't even hear my side of the story, and I basically wanted to kill myself every day until I re-discovered my purpose in life a year later. That was the story of how I lost my virginity.

                                              Anyway, these things happen too, and it leaves some people jaded about some of these stories. I am NOT saying this is the case here, but skepticism is sometimes warranted. The woman is not always the innocent one.

                                              [–]Princess_Catherine [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              That's really sad. I'm sorry to hear that happened.

                                              [–]StarBeastTheSecond [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              It's Scotland so he was drunk too. It cancels out. Double standards and inequality.

                                              Anyway, we all know that 90% of people here are guys looking for a minge to nut in.

                                              [–]Freyter [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                              Here's my personal stance, and it may be an unpopular one. I hear a lot of people, here and in real life, put blame on only the person who commuted the crime. But in my opinion isn't it partly the victims fault too?

                                              By going out and getting black out drunk people willfully put themselves in danger.

                                              At my college there's a big emphasis on looking for people trying to rape others while you're at a party. I don't believe this actually solves any problems though. The people being taken advantage of aren't the ones who still have their wits about them.

                                              No one at my school talks about stopping people who can't handle alcohol, or self defense techniques. If we were to train people to manage their lives better, and to be know how to defend themselves against attackers, I believe we would actually solve a problem, instead of treating the symptoms.

                                              [–]ofnovalue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                              I agree that we should teach people to take care of themselves and not getting black out drunk BUT saying that their rape/assault is "partly their fault" is absolutely wrong. By saying that you are excusing the attacker. If someone rapes another person, that rape is a heinous act whether the victim was drunk or stone cold sober.

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                                                [–]ritoplzcarryme 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (30子コメント)

                                                I wish the article would go into more detail about the men's coherent ability.

                                                I understand that she was too drunk to be making decisions, but I wish it mentioned how drunk the men were. Really can't make a decision on the case without knowing both sides of the story.

                                                [–]throwawayxtxtxt [スコア非表示]  (22子コメント)

                                                I agree. If they were as drunk as she was, why are they being charged with rape and not her as well? Consent is a 2 way street.

                                                EDIT: A word.

                                                [–]Galaxycalderwood [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

                                                Men have dicks, so naturally we're held to be the rapist in nearly every case regardless of intoxication. I've used the mantra "If I'm drunk too, who's raping who?" In these types of cases a lot, consensus always seems to be that nobody is consenting but the dude should still be charged because he's penetrating someone else.

                                                [–]Einlanser [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                Where did you find that particular consensus? Did it rhyme with "The impenetrable echo chamber that is my victim complex?" Because you didn't find it in any western judicial tradition, ever.

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                                                  [–]Pyroteche [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                  If only consent was a two way street. The number of cases where people claimed to revoke consent during or after I'd ridiculous.

                                                  [–]Coral_Blue_Number_2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                  Drugs make legal things seem very messy, especially when they are socially acceptable

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                                                    [–]Einlanser [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    I betcha the judge had both sides of the story. They are real sticklers about that sort of thing.

                                                    [–]gshwk [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    If the men were claiming to recall that she did give consent, then they are either lying, or weren't nearly as drunk as she is described to have been.

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                                                      [–]G_R3E_D [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                      Does anyone know where the line is if both parties are drinking? I've never understood what happens when two parties are both intoxicated. If they have sex are they both guilty? The one who regrets it is the victim? It just seems like a blurred line...

                                                      [–]DailyChupa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                      Great, I'm going to make shit tons of money suing the women that sleep with me when I'm too drunk. I love this precedent! $$$$$$

                                                      [–]radioraheem8 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      Is the establishment that overserved her being brought into question in this type of situation? Or is that only in the US? Granted, she could have shown up at the place already smashed/tipsy, but if the staff is talking about how drunk she was, doesn't the establishment have some responsibility for sending her off with two total strangers? I mean, I find a drunk woman this wasted, I look for her friends to take her home. Not these two sketchy looking dudes who volunteer out of the blue to "help".

                                                      [–]SillyDickinson 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                      Shit naval standards are if you have 1 drink you can't consent. Which unfortunately so navy wifes and sailors have taken advantage of this, which can lead to some messy investigations.

                                                      [–]dafuqisdismain -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                      Ya but navy guys are idiots for getting married to begin w. She married you so she gets a free paycheck and as much dick as she wants while youre gone. Normal girls dont marry guys they know will be gone half the year.

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                                                        [–]smellyllamala 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                        I'm too confused to honestly make up my mind about it. I don't talk about it much. Guy has a sister I know and I didn't want to ruin his life in case it was my fault.

                                                        My only solace; knowing me as a person definitely not looking for sex that night. Is that I guess being bitten was some indication that I was trying to fight him off.

                                                        [–]Pregnantandroid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        People seem to forget that this a civil case, they were not persecuted. Either way, in my country (EU) this a crime only if the other person is in such a state the he cannot resist having sex. If a woman was, for example, be able to go on her own to guy's apartment in third stock, she obviously was in a state that she could have resisted. However, if she was in coma, that would be a sexual assault (not a rape).

                                                        [–]adamcornwall [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        Does this mean i am now able to take legal action against every woman i've had sex with whilst too drunk to give consent?

                                                        [–]Taxtro1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        Why does no one care about how drunk a man is when he's having sex?

                                                        When I spend too much money while I'm drunk, was I robbed?! What fucking madness.

                                                        [–]FAX_ME_UR_BBQ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                        So nobody's gonna mention "Goodwillie"? The most inappropriately named man ever. He most certainly doesn't have a good willy.

                                                        [–]mariahleefaith [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                        She shouldn't have put herself in the position to be so drunk she couldn't even say no.

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