Why is being GC thought of as alt-right?

JustaTurtleFucker · 11時間前

This is actually kinda hilarious to me. Every time I see some trans cult member bullying lesbians with a Consider the Penis pitch, I feel like linking them to job openings in the Christian conversion "therapy" camp that stole months of my life as a teen, because their ideas belong and thrive there.

I wonder if they know they're preaching the exact same homophobic rhetoric as Focus on the Family, the conservatiest of conservative Christian hate groups, who also believe men behave one way naturally and women another, who also believed I just needed a good dicking to change my fucking mind about who and what I could find attractive. They even both ask you to repent of your sins, sometimes publicly flogging yourself for stepping out of line.

The resemblance is unfuckingcanny.

frusteratedrant · 13時間前

"Alt Right" is used in the U.S. as a modern rebranding of White Nationalism. I think it's less common for funfems to call GC "alt right" but they certainly call GC feminists rightwing. There's a variety of reasons for this including deliberate misinformation about GC positions e.g. they often try to say WE support gender!? There is also a meta awareness to this generation wherein fellow young people are araid of "being on the wrong side of history" like the pro-segregation white people of the 60s etc. In that regard they see trans ideology as a progressive social movement therefore anyone opposing or applying criticism are inherently rightwing.

Also, a less spoken issue, but one I've noticed as a young woman active IRL left organizations, is an ignorance if not utter disdain for any women of the "second wave" generation or those referencing second wave writing. Criticisms of second wave feminism stems not from reading the source material but from a reading Tumblr/Facebook/random manifesto etc criticism which gets their source from Tumblr/Facebook/random manifesto etc which gets their source......and it's turtles all the way down.

So to funfems second wave feminists ARE "old feminists", not relevant and angry and certainly not cool. TERF and RightWinger is just the tip of iceberg.

songoftheworms · 12時間前

Genderists use the term "biological essentialism" to refer to both radical feminists' acknowledgment of the biological basis of female oppression (our bodies, our presumed reproductive capabilities) AND the right-wing party line that "biology is destiny," i.e. that the gender [role] assigned to your sex is inescapably true and correct, and if you don't embrace it, and especially if you'd prefer to embrace the gender role assigned to the opposite sex, there's something wrong with you.

And since they believe freedom from sexist oppression can [must] only be sought by expanding who is 'allowed' to perform which gender role (as well as who is 'allowed' to label themselves as which sex), they can honestly paint radical feminists and right-wingers as enemies of that freedom: Both groups are indeed opposed to the genderist view of it. For radical feminists, the opposition is based in our belief that sex is real and the construct of "gender" (especially where it is seen as intrinsically linked with sex) serves as a net harm to humanity. For right-wingers, it's based in their belief that "biology [sex] is destiny [gender]."

But the weirdest part of this phenomenon is that genderists never admit that they share a hugely important trait with the right-wing nutjobs they claim to despise, too: faith in the notion that gender is innate, universal, natural, and inextricable from not just the kind of person you are, but the kind of person you can be. This diagram explains it well, I think.

-backdrifter · 12時間前

I think there are a few reasons.

It's an easy way for them to write us off so then no one (within feminist/social justice circles) will listen to us. If we aren't with them 100%, then we're violently against them 100%, and it's easy to write us off as "bigots" and therefore no different than right-wing conservative bigots. Never mind the fact that right-wing people don't want anything to do with us when we tend to be radical feminists, when many of us are lesbians and gay men, when many of us are gender non-conforming people.

There really are not many mainstream or loud left-wing voices who are critical of gender/transgenderism/trans activism. If you hear anything negative or critical about any of this in the media, it tends to be coming from conservatives. It's set up as a real black-and-white dichotomy: either you're left-wing and a "good" person so therefore you support all causes, or you must be a "bad" person and therefore right-wing. There's really no nuance. I'm sure that there are a lot of people who don't even realize that you can be left-wing AND gender/trans critical at the same time like we are. Our voices just are not heard. There aren't enough left-wing gender critical pieces or websites out there. People are understandably afraid to speak up...and often when they do speak up, they get smeared and shut down and called things like "TERF," which has very effectively become a scary term, so then no one will listen to us because we've been labeled the Bad People with Bad Opinions.

When they do realize that we exist, they don't seem to realize that right-wing people talking critically about trans issues and left-wing people talking critically about trans issues tend to be coming from very, very different places. We're talking about the misogyny and homophobia within trans activism, we're talking about how gender is oppressive and should be abolished, we're talking about defending female-only and lesbian-only spaces. Right-wing people tend to be coming from a very different point of view. Personally, I see more in common with trans activists and conservatives than with us and conservatives. They both want to uphold gender and they both cling to stereotypes and gender roles. Additionally, there even ARE some right-wing people who are fine with trans people but despise gay/lesbian people. Again it all goes back to a desire to uphold gender, which we strongly oppose.

Trans issues are the big pet cause for liberals right now. MtTs have successfully convinced a lot of liberals and feminists that MtTs are the most oppressed group of all time (as well as the group behind practically anything and everything, like how they try to claim that MtTs started the gay rights movement, so therefore we "owe" them). There's just really not much room for any dissent right now, so if we don't fall in line, then we can't possibly be left-wing ourselves.

In the end they just know that it's an effective tactic. If we get lumped in with the right-wing and if we get slammed with "TERF," they know that no one's going to want to listen to us because we've been vilified and people don't want to be associated with us (lest they become vilified and seen as "bad" people themselves too). It's much easier to write our criticism off as "bigoted" and "right-wing" rather than actually having to acknowledge and address our points. It's quite easy in our society to demonize women with opinions, and they know this and use it to their advantage.

Kalipest · 13時間前

Silencing/smear tactic because the "progressive" left will currently not tolerate debate, discussion or disagreement. The voice of the "oppressed" is sacrosanct and whoever is "most oppressed" holds most power (unless, you know, it happens to be women.) And of course, because of this perverse power stuggle, we are bombarded with hyperbole about who is being "literally murdered literally all the time" which muddies facts and prevents objective assessment of what is actually going on with regards to the experience of marginalised groups.

It's interesting that we are accused of bigotry and facism but on this sub there is plenty of healthy discussion and disagreement, especially in comparison to many of the trans-focussed subs. We've seen this over and over, but the treatment of detransitioners or even just those questioning their transition in the trans subs is telling; anything not straightforwardly affirmative is removed or downvoted to oblivion.

I don't mind that they behave in this way (aside from it being obnoxious.) Bully tactics rarely win. People come around to an idea when they can question it, and if you try to completely redefine current understanding of something as fundamental as "man" and "woman" without letting people question that, in addition to hurling insults when they do try to question it, then all you're going to get is a whole lot more "peak trans" moments.

nofreenamesleft · 8時間前

Alt-right seems to be the new bogeyman that everyone gets called. It's just a less cheesy way to say you're "literally Hitler".

La_Diabla · 7時間前

It is incompatible to be right-wing and a feminist and they fuckin' know it. I don't think it is difficult at all to know the difference between religious right and Radical feminism motivation but when your delusional contentions have a foundation of quicksand you'll grasp at anything.

The emperor has no clothes. We are women who refuse to defer and they hate us for it.

LilianH · 13時間前

It's a classic silencing tactic, trying to link an person/group with opposing views to yours to something society sees as bad (in this case the "alt-right") to discredit your opponents.

Trump did the same at his recent press conference when he called CNN "fake news". It's exactly the same tactic.

Most trans activists attacks on gender critical views are straight out of the propaganda textbook.

wiseowl79 · 14時間前

It's not an honest appraisal of the politics of the situation; it's just an evasion tactic to stall being taken to task for their attempts to turn the left as a whole into a haven for cultish irrationalism and patriarchal oppression.

wanderingwomb · 11時間前

Because Godwin's Law and stupid people who think if they just compare you to something bad that everyone agrees is bad they've made some kind of point.

TheNewGarry2 · 10時間前

Meanwhile I don't know about 'alt-right' themselves but MRAs, many of whom fall under alt-lite (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/12/27/nazis-vs-trumpkins-the-prom-tearing-apart-the-alt-right.html) and are HUGE Trump supporters are largely cool with trans. http://thewalrus.ca/whose-side-are-you-on-anyway/

Janet Bloomfield in the article is a racist Trump fan who believes women should not be allowed to vote, we should be forced to have abortions if men want us to and calls teenage rape victims 'dumb sluts'. I am NOT linking to her site, but it's easily searchable. She has a long post on how she has trans friends and telling her fanboys to be nice to trans people.

The others female MRAs profiled in the article, eg Karen Straughan are also cool with MTTs. They frequently bring up 'terfs' to 'prove' how mean feminists are. Mancheeze, who I think is a radfem blogged about this a lot. http://mancheeze.wordpress.com/

mauritia · 6時間前

"Alt right" is racist conservatism with bonus memes. As a socialist feminist I have little in common with them. That said, I have seen nonsensical gender politics criticized by the alt right so I guess that's why we get lumped in with them.

lavenderamethyst · 7時間前

Why? A very politically expedient, intentional association fallacy.

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Their world is divided by design into classic "for us" or "against us". Nuance in the latter category is of no use to their collective aims, and the image of the bible-thumping, narrow-minded conservative is the most efficient, evocative mascot around which their supports can gather with stones.

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Just another of the innumerable benefits of a movement founded on the calculated exclusion of critical thought.

endthewoo · 5時間前

It isn't thought of as "alt right" at all. The libfems and trans cultists whine that radical feminists are "allied" with right wing/christian fundies etc as a way to try and get us back into line - it's an insult with no substance to it. Same as calling people "transphobic".

endoftheliner · 3時間前

This is sort of like any "craze" that comes along in history. When I was 15, for instance, I was an utter Elvis fan, like tens of millions of others adolescent girls with raging hormones. I was over it in a couple of months since I had other fish to fry, like school, etc, but you can find some people who still think he's god. Every "god" has clay feet, and so do ideologies, since humans invent them and perpetuate them. This is why we think and become critical in our thinking when those ideas affect not just huge numbers of people, but ourselves personally, in negative ways.

And the transgender ideology is affecting the majority of people on earth--women--in the most negative ways possible, even attempting to strip us of our sex and how we express ourselves and have done forever. This comes nowhere near to "alt-right" authoritarian thought since the foundation of women's liberation was brilliantly analyzed and firmly established during the second wave. Modern feminism and its stepchild, transgender, is a reaction against women's liberation.

qwertypoiuytre · 3時間前

I think phrasing it as "thought of" as alt-right is giving them too much credit. Brainlessly labeled as more like it - because they've drunk enough koolaid to be too afraid to even go to the source of what they're criticizing and see what it actually is and so can't form any specific rebuttals, or they know what it is and know they have no credible rebuttal to it.

canering · 10時間前

Well GC and right wing traditionalists have opposed measures like open bathrooms, using the same reasoning - that it jeopardizes the safety of women and girls by allowing potential male predators to falsely claim to be transgender women in order to gain nefarious access.

But anyone who looks into GC should quickly realize it is absolutely not a right wing ideology.

violetreva · 9時間前

One thing I really want to know is whether there is a specific group of people (other than men, since men aren't specifically getting together in back room to come up with this shit) with a specific agenda who are coming up with these accusations and getting away with them, by taking advantage of women's lower place in society. Or is it really something more organic and intuitive? Perhaps it's just ignoramuses calling us right wing and alt right (since alt right is a buzz word now) because it's a way to get the misogynist left to attack because we've punctured their liberalism (speaking as a radical leftist) and they will throw whatever sticks to keep women down. And they'll do that, because by demanding our own security we threaten their status in society.

Such accusations could only be well received by:

dogmatic young people indoctrinated into liberal unconditional tolerance and assimilation who don't want to judge anybody because being judgy is bad and also segregation is bad therefore we should have no boundaries maaan (talk about issues...)
the alt right and right wing themselves, who are invested in recruiting as many as they can to their cause -- and they would certainly like to use women's reproductive labor (read: enslavement)
anybody with a liberal arts or humanities education or who has taken gender studies or who knows someone who has and has been "educated" in queer theory and liberal feminism, among other things
misogynists who merely follow the rules of acceptable discourse but have no convictions themselves and will use any excuse to dominate women as long as it is deemed appropriate
women who are cowtowing to all these people under the threat of losing some significant things

triggermethis · 7時間前

Lurker here. Just commenting to let you know the alt-right is all but finished. All their leaders, with the exception of Richard Spencer, have been doxed and shown to be complete frauds and the whole thing just one giant honeypot. You won't see this much on the r/altright sub because any criticism of them is met with harsh censorship but all the inner circles are falling apart and online forums are going 404 over it. Anyway, anyone that calls you or the subscribers of this sub alt-right should be met with mocking derision and contempt. The alt-right doesn't exist anymore and hardly ever did to begin with.

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