全 32 件のコメント

[–]VoteRonaldRayGun 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Police could not guarantee safety" is not the same as "violence from left-wing protestors"

No violence took place, Breitbart deliberately made it seem as though it had.

[–]Rapedbyakoala 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"The most important type of speech is unpopular speech"- This doesn,t even apply to Milo, the type of dumb shit he says is, unfortunately, very popular. Meanwhile genuinely anti-racist, anti fascist speech and the perspectives of minorities, those are all unpopular. Luckily they were people calling out that daftness in the thread

[–]theaccountismine 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Linking to milo's deleted twitter will never get old.

[–]thikthird 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nice title

[–]kabzoer 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Noone heard the speech, and free speech lost.

I literally started laughing when I read this. his comment is ridiculous. "Let's compare the LA Times with an article from an equally reputable source: Breitbart!"

I know 'the answer is in the middle' is becoming a stupid meme by now but that didn't ever stop anyone.

EDIT: I kinda like Ctrl Left.

[–]bakedpatato 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well Trump saved a spot for it in the front row during his press conference so of course its reputable /s

(Lord that disgusts me so much that a dung heap of lies like Breitbart is even in the same room as actual reputable news)

[–]brownwithpink 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To end things, here's Milos thoughts on the event.

lel gets me every time

[–]Piconeeks -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I support peaceful protest of an event. What I don't understand is violent/mob protest. I have a couple of friends who were there at the time, and here's the anecdotal narrative they told me:

  • The vast majority of protestors were a distance away from the venue, over on the lawn between the Science Lecture building and the Science Labs building, or in the street by Surge III.

  • The protestors were agitated by an antifascist group (stopfascism.org, their flyers were strewn all over afterwards)

  • Violent actions began to boil over, but more protestors there trying to stop the violence (or leaving) than there were engaging in it. The situation became dangerous, and there are anecdotal accounts (and snapchat videos) of things being thrown at people and physical assaults. The police had to physically remove some people who refused to be peaceful.

    At this point, the situation was no longer safe. My friends left.

  • The Davis Police Department determined the situation was no longer safe and shut down the event.

  • Milo now gets to spout on about the 'intolerant left' to whatever degree he wants.

The peaceful protestors who didn't enter the building were admirable. The agitators and the assailants inflamed by the passion of the moment are not. They've just given this man even more bandwidth to push his ideas.

For context, here's the email sent out by the interim chancellor on the matter:

Dear UC Davis students, faculty, and staff:

In recent days, many members of our community have expressed deep concern over an upcoming event on campus sponsored by the Davis College Republicans, a registered UC Davis student organization. The event, scheduled for this evening, features Milo Yiannopoulos, an editor at Breitbart News known for provocative anti-leftist political and cultural commentary, and guest speaker Martin Shkreli, a controversial hedge fund founder and former pharmaceutical executive.

All of those who expressed concern referenced Mr. Yiannopoulos’s notoriety for making disrespectful and often offensive utterances directed at certain segments of our society, or global society, and for denigrating ideas with which he disagrees. They view the beliefs and statements in question, along with similar ones attributed to Mr. Shkreli, as being in sharp conflict with the type of institutional environment that UC Davis is committed to supporting—one that is inclusive and respectful to people of all backgrounds, and dedicated to the pursuit of deeper understanding through the free and civil exchange of ideas.

Because I believe that many of you have similar concerns, let me clarify the position of UC Davis administration on this event.

We affirm the right of our students—in this instance, the Davis College Republicans—to invite speakers to our campus. Any public university must do everything it can to make sure that all members of its community are free to express their views—both because free expression is a right guaranteed by the First Amendment of the Constitution and enshrined in University of California policy, and because it is an essential ingredient of excellence in higher-education teaching and research.

Indeed, our position on objectionable speech in general is consonant with the following statement by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) on “racist, sexist and homophobic” utterances:

"Where racist, sexist and homophobic speech is concerned, the ACLU believes that more speech—not less—is the best revenge. This is particularly true at universities, whose mission is to facilitate learning through open debate and study, and to enlighten. When hate is out in the open, people can see the problem. Then they can organize effectively to counter bad attitudes, possibly change them, and forge solidarity against the forces of intolerance."

To this, let me add my personal belief that a university is at its best, is most true to itself, and makes proper use of its unique intellectual resources when it listens to and critically engages opposing views, especially ones that many of us find upsetting or even offensive.

To ensure that a respectful and rational exchange of ideas is the strong focus of this event, we urge all involved students, faculty, and staff to participate in a manner in keeping with our UC Davis Principles of Community. To veer from this course due to intentional provocation would constitute missing an important opportunity to publicly demonstrate the character, values, and critical ability of the UC Davis community.

We hope and expect that this event will be conducted professionally and in keeping with our community values. Even so, I want to assure you that our Student Affairs office, the Davis College Republicans, campus security personnel, and others are taking all of the appropriate measures to create a safe and secure environment.

In sum, UC Davis acknowledges Mr. Yiannopoulos and Mr. Shkreli as invited guests of a registered campus student group. We appreciate the opportunity that this event provides us to hear and evaluate their views as well as to affirm our support for untrammeled freedom of expression. This does not mean, however, that we take an approving or even neutral position with respect to speech intended to express hate or to denigrate or offend others, even if that speech is employed as part of a political strategy or for the purpose of self-promotion. Such speech we unequivocally condemn. It is our sincere hope that, in Mr. Yiannopoulos’s and Mr. Shkreli’s visit to UC Davis, they will strike the right balance between frank expression and due respect.

Sincerely,

Ralph J. Hexter
Interim Chancellor

Hopefully, if you read this, you might get a better picture of what happened.

[–]incogburritos 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is not the same thing but keep in mind that early Nazi rallies and protests were shutdown by communist and socialist activists in Germany in the 20s.

And when that happened, the moderate elites, who throughout time and forever will at all costs protect order over justice, wrote their equivalents of a drooling and simpering David Brooks op eds begging those socialists and communists to take the high road.

So they stopped.

If they hadn't, would nazi Germany still have come about. Yeah you know probably? Who knows. Either way I am very sympathetic to violent reaction to fascism from the public, particularly since the intellectual elite left who have the biggest platforms for left ideology are complete cowards.

[–]Piconeeks 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I understand resistance and protest. I'm sympathetic with the antifascists on campus. But stopfascism.org seems to just have a game plan of 'be angry until the president becomes not the president' which seems vague and unproductive to me.

Again, what my friends have reported is a largely peaceful protest disrupted and agitated by an organized party. Anger boiled over and the Snapchat videos I saw definitely showed an unsafe atmosphere. Milo would have been torn to pieces if he had come anywhere near that crowd.

I'm just conflicted here about the means of expressing the contempt and dismissal the UC Davis community has towards Milo's views.

[–]That_Wasnt_Sarcasm 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But stopfascism.org seems to just have a game plan of 'be angry until the president becomes not the president' which seems vague and unproductive to me.

So I can't comment on the content of the flyers from the demonstration, but stopfascism.org is an anti-Putin, anti-War in Ukraine group with defined goals which don't seem to include "be angry until the president becomes not the president." They don't seem concerned with Trump at all.

You may be looking for refusefascism.org, which is more in line with what you've described.

[–]Piconeeks 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whoops. Yeah, I had them conflated in my head. Refusefascism is definitely the one I meant. Sorry!

[–]kabzoer 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I am, as someone who doesn't live in Europe, still really confused as to why the university wanted Milo and Shkreli to talk in the first place. There are so many brilliant people who can give constructive talks. Are American university staff basically edgelords? Can someone please explain this to me?

[–]AJM_2015 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He was probably invited by a student group.

[–]kabzoer 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I see, it's the republican student organisation that invited them. However for some reason I still can't see something like this happening at the university I go to. (I live in Belgium.)

Maybe I'm just naive.

[–]VoteRonaldRayGun 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those "student" organisation are usually run directly by the GOP and used as cover for propaganda.

They get a tiny group of willful idiots to fulfill the minimum quota for a student club and then control it externally. The students in return get invited to free networking events where there's free booze.

[–]AJM_2015 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, it especially happens at public universities in the US, I feel. Private universities are a little more willing to quietly shut down such efforts. Fox News was kicked off the campus of my university a few years ago and there was hardly a stir.

[–]marisachan 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think there's any line of thought parroted regularly on Reddit that I dislike more than the idea that freedom of speech means you're somehow freed from the economic, non-legal consequences of that speech. It comes up again and again in news stories like this where some author/speaker/whatever is facing protests for books or something. I remember when the Ender's Game movie was coming out and there was, very frequently, the highly upvoted idea that suggesting you're not going to see the movie because of the author's political views or participating in a boycott/protest of the movie was somehow violating his right to free speech. At the time, I wrote it off as Reddit just wanting to protect their favorite book but it's been growing in strength and frequency as of late. Somehow, someone giving a speech (no matter how controversial) is a-ok free speech, but someone protesting that speech or calling for it to be cancelled is not.

[–]roadghost24 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reminds me of the time when r/worldnews got mad that a grandma in Berlin was overspraying neo-nazi graffiti with her own, and in all seriousness got in arguments about whether or not this woman was infringing on anyone's right to free speech.

I know it's worldnews, but I could not believe what I was reading.

[–]big_al11 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They love freedom of speech until a woman like Anita Sarkeesian starts mildly critiquing them, at which point they send the FBI to her house and call in bomb threats to universities.

[–]lunetron 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is really annoying, and it also shows how stupid Reddit users can be. It should be fairly obvious to them that critical evaluations of speech (as well as not supporting an event, etc.) are acts of free speech/expression themselves. The fact that something so easy to figure out doesn't occur to Reddit's self-proclaimed first amendment experts is telling.

[–]BreadToBake 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"Every person that is a [minority group] is subhuman and I can't tolerate them."

"Don't be intolerant"

"lol gotcha your intolerant not me"