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GenderCritical

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GENDER CRITICAL FEMINISM

Gender Critical is a subreddit to analyze gender from a critical perspective. We are a radical feminist and women centered community. This is a place to think critically about gender, the erasure of lesbian culture and the appropriation of women's spaces. In short this is a place to discuss radical feminism without fear.
"Women do not decide at some point in adulthood that they would like other people to understand them to be women, because being a woman is not an ‘identity.’ Women’s experience does not resemble that of men who adopt the ‘gender identity’ of being female or being women in any respect. The idea of ‘gender identity’ disappears biology and all the experiences that those with female biology have of being reared in a caste system based on sex." - Sheila Jeffreys, Gender Hurts
 
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all 35 comments
[–]bladesman393 26 points27 points28 points  (10 children)
As tempting as it is to enjoy something like this, in which Milo is surely crying many man tears, I have a feeling the people who shut this down are the same people who try and shut down Julie Bindel and others.
[–]swans0615 18 points19 points20 points  (7 children)
When Milo and Julie were scheduled to speak together at Manchester uni, Julie was initially no platformed but not Milo. They only banned him later after people protested the hypocrisy.
[–]TheNewGarry2 14 points15 points16 points  (5 children)
My favorite part was that Julie was singled out for not just her views on trans but also for 'Islamophobia'. XD Yeah..I'm pretty sure she has been clear that she views all major religions as misogynistic. She doesn't dehumanize actual Muslims at all btw..they were literally mad that she criticized a religion! This is disturbing to me considering that there large regions of the world where it is actually illegal and punishable by death to criticize Islam or convert out of it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_Saudi_Arabia
My favorite similar instance was when SJWs tried to call a communist feminist group 'Islamophobic' because they had a pamphlet that denounces both Islamic and Christian fundamentalism. http://www.stoppatriarchy.org/sp-steps-up-resistance--responds-to-attacks.html
[–]EternalStudent01 13 points14 points15 points  (3 children)
This marriage between Islam and supposed feminism is weird. If it's because muslims are a minority in the west what are they gonna do, first allow criticism of it if they became a majority?
It's a politically correct straight jacket that makes sure people can only act when it's too late.
Of course nevermind the fact that there's 1.6 billion muslims worldwide making it the second largest religion. Far from being powerless or without control.
[–]TheNewGarry2 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
I don't rlly think it's accurate to say there is a 'marriage' btwn them at all..at least not in the US, it's just weird how they have set it up as a sacred cow you can't criticize at all. They claim that doing so would constitute 'white feminism'/'imperialism' (http://www.vice.com/en_us/article/does-america-deserve-malala) but even when former Muslim women, who are some of its biggest critics do try to speak up they get silenced too.
Of course nevermind the fact that there's 1.6 billion muslims worldwide making it the second largest religion. Far from being powerless or without control.
That's another thing, 'Muslims' aren't a monolithic 'they'.. A huge number of the victims of Islamism + repression esp in that area are Muslims themselves. People like Milo and Ben Shapiro generally seem to have a poor and oversimplified understanding of the geopolitics concerning this, and the distinctions between Sunni/Shii etc and the dynamics between them. Ben's horribly written novel has some particularly cringeworthy examples of this. http://www.simonandschuster.com/books/True-Allegiance/Ben-Shapiro/9781682610770
Lots of SJWs often have a similarly one-dimensional worldview except in theirs the 'good' and 'bad' sides are reversed.
[–]EternalStudent01 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
A marriage was not the right thing to describe the phenomenon as, a sacred cow fits better.
[–]bladesman393 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
It's this whole mentality to aggressively discredit someone based on a single opinion about something. Let's misrepresent something somebody said and spread misinformation far and wide and crush them with an iron fist eh, so tiresome.
[–]susannunes 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
It would be nice to know the reason why Milo was silenced, but the article doesn't say.
[–]QatNap 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Are you kidding? He's a shock jock. I assure you that no tears are being shed. Eliciting this kind of response is very much part of his business model. Every time his events are protested he gains new fans and more buyers for his book.
[–]TheNewGarry2 16 points17 points18 points  (1 child)
Sigh..like I've said always think calling Milo a 'fascist' is giving him too much credit. That 'dapper white nationalist' Richard Spencer guy is an actual fascist, but like Milo is a dumb little guy who scream standard YouTube troll racism and about how feminists are fat/ugly over and over again. Um, maybe they were annoyed that the school would be paying Milo?
Was shocked to learn he's 33 Holy shit...see this changes things.
If you want to see a nuanced and intelligent critique of SJW culture and the free speech debate , look at Freddie deBoer's writing. He has written a lot about this very critically from a Left perspective. http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/12/17/the-left-should-support-speech-rights-because-the-left-is-weak/ and http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/03/24/is-the-social-justice-left-really-abandoning-free-speech/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/magazine/why-we-should-fear-university-inc.amp.html Be very wary of how this stuff gets portrayed in MSM but also how SJWs are inadvertently contributing to neoliberalization of universities, with administrative bloat etc.
From a conservative or libertarian perspective check out Dave Rubin , Elizabeth Nolan Brown (she's Freddie's ex!) and Cathy Young (she has some reprehensible views though).. Cathy was one of Milo's 'buddies' but she became a very outspoken critic of the alt-right..It turns out Milo doesn't really have political principles like these people, he is mainly interested in clicks + attention.
Milo didn't even finish college, and he didn't attend it in the US. He has a very poor understanding of what campus dynamics are really like. What does strike me as really suspicious and pathetic though is the enormous cottage industry- Lukianoff &Haidt, College Fix, Campus Reform, Katherine Timpf, Robby Soave, Rod Dreher- built from chronicling Stupid Shit those crazy SJWs do. Look, there are even SJW-themed Eli Roth slasher movies in which the SJWs get eaten alive by cannibals. http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2015/07/new-poster-for-eli-roths-cannibal-horror-the-green-inferno
'Lol college Sjws are stupid' isn't an edgy or bold stance..Yes, they can be dumb, but I mean..they're 18-22-year-olds. They are an easy target and their excesses get misrepresented and cherry-picked. Milo is a 33-year-old man picking on people who are much younger than him. At least when liberals mock conservatives they usually aren't making fun of actual teenagers or college kids but people in positions of power like Todd Aiken..
Not defending them, but it's just important to be..wary of the mainstream narrative about SJWs. Like, most of the conservatives who scream about 'free speech' are essentially in some way trying to control and eliminate speech they disagree with on campus. http://thebaffler.com/blog/political-correctness-conservatives-alvarez
Also keep in mind that many of the conservatives who defend Milo (eg Matt Walsh) don't think Cecile Richards should have been allowed to speak at Georgetown.
[–]frauleinvonkarma 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
'Lol college Sjws are stupid' isn't an edgy or bold stance..Yes, they can be dumb, but I mean..they're 18-22-year-olds. They are an easy target and their excesses get misrepresented and cherry-picked. Milo is a 33-year-old man picking on people who are much younger than him.
That's a spot on. Milo wouldn't have the courage to face a serious debate. Interesting enough, I've seen "grown" conservatives (people with 30~40 years old) actually taking Milo seriously... I'm not from US/Europe, but I'm sure that most people on the right are a bit desperate if they're using an annoying troll as a resource.
Like, most of the conservatives who scream about 'free speech' are essentially in some way trying to control and eliminate speech they disagree with on campus.
I completely agree with this, too, especially when people talk about feminism or capitalism/socialism.
[–]lil_mia 14 points15 points16 points  (0 children)
The LGBT Person of the Year can't talk about cutting off penises in bastions of academic enlightenment?
WTF?
[–]feminafact 7 points8 points9 points  (1 child)
Pretty sure UC Berkeley is going to do the same thing soon. This is the American equivalent of no-platforming, just sending out students en masse to protest against speakers.
This is playing right into Yiannopoulos' hands. He's spoken extensively about how liberals do not believe in freedom of speech or rational discourse... his argument portrays conservatives on college campuses as oppressed and silenced groups. This tour just to proves his point-- as universities continue to shut him down, he'll just go to his YouTube channel and validate & mobilize his followers.
He should have been ignored: these Republican groups can invite whoever they want and circlejerk amongst themselves. No respectable students or organizations should give him the time of day. He's using the Trump tactic: say outrageous, controversial things and get free publicity. A couple people who read the LA Times are now going to look him up, maybe subscribe to his content or buy his book, and he'll be better off then before. We need to disincentivize this form of marketing.
[–]riseupladies 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
This is playing right into Yiannopoulos' hands.
Agree, totally counter-productive.
[–]Fallenstarrynight 29 points30 points31 points  (2 children)
I'm worried about college students' willingness to shut down free speech by no-platforming and protesting.
You absolutely have the right to disagree with an opposing side's position, but you don't have the right to SILENCE that side.
[–]TheNewGarry2 11 points12 points13 points  (1 child)
I'm not defending them but maybe they were concerned he would doxx/ harrass some random student there? The incident with the MTT in Wisconsin isn't a terribly sympathetic case but that apparently wasn't the only time. Also usually speakers have a q&a session towards the end but have you seen Milo's videos? Most of the people who disagree with him aren't the 'triggered sjw' caricature btw. He posts the videos online and his followers stalk and harass random individuals.
I don't think he should have been shut down but the way the media portrays campuses and SJWs is not always accurate. Conservatives also try to control discourse they disagree with, usually leveraging $$ and legal power. It's a totally unbalanced power dynamic because lefties pretty much by definition have less money on their side..most billionaires are at least fiscally conservative for obvious reasons. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/09/university-of-wisconsin-masculinity-program-republicans
Also http://archive.is/4dhQ0 Look, the entire point of the headline is 'someone said something we disagree with'. You are supposed to be outraged over that alone
Michael Khan, President of Georgetown Right to Life, told the Daily Caller that he was disappointed, but not terribly surprised, that his university had granted a platform to someone so opposed to Christian values. Hatchett said that the protesters represented the 13,000 people who signed a petition urging the University not to host the president of America’s largest abortion provider.
[–]pinkpurpledinosaurs 4 points5 points6 points  (0 children)
I don't see why someone like Milo has some divine right to a public platform. He's said himself he just does it because he thinks it's funny and he likes upsetting people. His whole shtick is abusive and students shouldn't have to put up with someone like that on campus. You wouldn't invite some racist comedian to speak so why Milo? What are his credentials? It's not the same as no platforming Julie Bindel or Germaine Greer although I know some students would feel that they were harmful. They certainly don't go out of their way to harass students.
[–]flapyourwings 16 points17 points18 points  (5 children)
I'll be damned, they actually went after a conservative man for a change.
[–]EternalStudent01 8 points9 points10 points  (3 children)
This isn't Milo's first rodeo, which I'm sure he'll turn to his advantage. He claims this stuff only strengthens his persona, which could very well turn out to be the case.
[–]transfascism_mod 2 points3 points4 points  (1 child)
If campus liberals wanted to publicly berate Milo in a way he couldn't turn to his advantage, they should pretend to be homophobic Christian conservatives. I'd like to see him deal with being told his "own side" hates his guts.
[–]TheNewGarry2 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
"People like Mike Cernovich and Milo don’t have an ideology; they don’t even really have policies that you can point to. They are Trump fans, who are vaguely conservative and a bit neocon-ish. They don’t like feminists and SJWs (social justice warriors); in other words, they pick the low-hanging fruit."
That was Richard Spencer, the 'dapper white nationalist'.
[–]LilianH 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
He already has. The right-wing is portraying the protesters as thugs and if you watch the media the Milo supporters that are giving interviews are mostly non-white or female (or both) while the protesters being shown are mostly white males.
[–]QatNap 17 points18 points19 points  (0 children)
Are you kidding? I'm no Milo fan, but this isn't a change. Attempts to shut down his speeches are extremely common.
[–]transfascism_mod 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
This is Milo's business model working as intended
  • Say stupid, trolly things (well, not always totally stupid, but definitely trolly)
  • Get campus warriors outraged
  • Get video of them doing social justicey things (protests, disrupting talks)
  • More Breitbart clicks and book sales from outraged conservatives
Kind of pathetic when a 30-something man trolls stupid teenagers, but hey, it's a living.
Also, holy god this story in /r/news has 10K comments.
[–]UsedAnalBead 13 points14 points15 points  (5 children)
Why do they need to shut down free speech tho?
[–]NoLadyBrain 10 points11 points12 points  (1 child)
I agree. There are many better ways to deal with ideas with which you disagree. Shutting people up because you don't like what they say has no place in a free society. Even if the person is a professional troll.
[–]pinkpurpledinosaurs 5 points6 points7 points  (0 children)
But not everyone has the right to a public platform. Milo could very well harass students if he felt like it. He's a nobody. He can talk on Breitbart if he wants. His freedom of speech is intact whether or not universities host him.
[–]Burner_account748 4 points5 points6 points  (1 child)
I mean, the guy basically called Syrians subhuman. Shut down garbage rhetoric whenever possible.
[–]cantbelieveitsnotalt 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
This is not a free speech issue, it does not involve a government silencing an individual or group.
[–]raulbikscubefloating ghost woman 6 points7 points8 points  (0 children)
so Milo called the protest "violence" when evidently it was not? sounds exactly like a SJW
[–]violetrevalesbian anarchist 2 points3 points4 points  (0 children)
I honestly don't care about this man and this has nothing to do with feminism.
[–]susannunes 8 points9 points10 points  (0 children)
The article as about as clear as mud. It doesn't even say why Milo was silenced, only why the other person was.
I frankly am not going to lose sleep over this idiot.
[–]_themgt_ 0 points1 point2 points  (2 children)
Watching videos like this, this and this while e.g /r/socialism high-fives and downvotes anyone suggesting maybe this is bad for free speech just cements for me the extent to which much of "the left" in this country has lost it's fucking mind.
I almost feel like it's time for an official 'Revocation of Small-L Liberalism Badge' ceremony. This is straight up authoritarian mob justice. This is not how to build a free and tolerant society, it's how to utterly destroy that society. I am just so disgusted that this sort of violent intolerance has become normalized in the very part of the political spectrum normally tasked with holding these forces at bay.
[–]TheNewGarry2 3 points4 points5 points  (0 children)
Obviously those actions are indefensible but they need to be taken with a grain of salt. Milo has a Breitbart video crew with him when he goes to these gigs and they often edit their footage in misleading ways. The 'crazy coddled SJWs' narrative is generally hugely popular for clickbait/tabloid fodder.
Is /r/socialism really a good metric of the left in the US? Only a tiny number of people in the general population actually use this site, or Twitter regularly. (Facebook is a different story) How many people there are actively involved in organizing? Also, are 18-22-yr-old students in these prestigious/expensive schools really representative of the entire left? Many of these people except a few will generally become less extremist and disengage somewhat from politics after graduating.
There is a HUGE backlash against SJW culture among left-leaning people in gen Y btw. http://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/01/safety-pin-box-richard-spencer-neo-nazis-alt-right-identity-politics/ Eg, a huge number of people in that age group recently joined Democratic Socialists of America..Lots of these people are pretty far-left but they are very derisive of neoliberal identity politics. http://fredrikdeboer.com/2014/03/24/is-the-social-justice-left-really-abandoning-free-speech/ and http://fredrikdeboer.com/2015/12/17/the-left-should-support-speech-rights-because-the-left-is-weak/ Sadly the flip side of this is many of them have a brocialist or economic-reductionist viewpoint.. But it would be far from accurate to say they are only white men.
Just in my personal experiences, I finished college in 2015.. the loudest, most stereotypical SJWs I knew desisted after graduation. Many still dye their hair blue and share articles from Everyday Meninism on Facebook but eg a lot of them ended up becoming charter school teachers. Charters are not friendly to 'social justice at all' btw. The few people I know who did end up becoming full-time activists were the more serious, quiet people who may have far-left views but dislike tumblr SJW culture.
[–]LilianH 0 points1 point2 points  (0 children)
He got to speak anyway. They just held a protest march today which was mostly his supporters and spun it to his advantage. (video)
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