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Children who believe they are transgender 'could have autism', says controversial expert (telegraph.co.uk)

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[–]bisoubisoumathmath 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dr Zucker says in the film: "It is possible that kids who have a tendency to get obsessed or fixated on something may latch on to gender. Just because kids are saying something doesn't necessarily mean you accept it, or that it's true, or that it could be in the best interests of the child."

He later adds: “A four-year-old might say that he’s a dog – do you go out and buy dog food?”

Thank you to Dr. Zucker for publicly making arguments that counter the accepted rhetoric. Always good to see academics doing what they should be doing.

[–]flapyourwings 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A fair proportion of the women I know who previously ID'd as trans are autistic or on the autism spectrum.

[–]EStarwind 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (16子コメント)

I'm bisexual and am training to become a geneticist. I've been troubled by just how many possible studies are abandoned because they are politically unpalatable to liberal academics who (rightly) fear perpetuating sexist, racist, homophobic, and unethical research performed just a few years ago.

It's nearly verboten now to do research on the link between mental illness and any of the LGBTQ unless you come from the perspective that the link exists solely because of social stigma. Any suggestion that the causal link is reversed (mental illness --> LGBTQ or that they share common causes) is immediately seized upon as hateful.

As I said before, this response is well-intentioned, but it is stifling useful research on possible causes for someone to be LGBTQ. There is no way that it is random and, like everything else in psychology, it is undoubtedly both nature and nurture.

Assessing the link between mental illness and LGBTQ without treating LGBTQ as a defect is a fine line to walk, but burying our heads in the sand helps no one.

[–]bisoubisoumathmath 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, there is an especially nasty history of silencing academics who investigate transgenderism, which has even come from academics who see themselves as champions of free speech. Very disappointing.

[–]ReddwollffDoggedly going through life. 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Mind you if it's evopsych bullshit, that might be a good thing.

But to be truthful it is concerning, I'm noticing also all problems are being reduced down to 'stigma' (thus meaning everyone else needs to re-educated) rather than looking for true sources for peoples problems. I don't think the LGB have a problem, that is about sexual orientation and discrimination in the law is what caused many problems as it pathologised a normal behaviour. It's the T and Q that is the issue, and they do need to address issues within that in regards mental health especially with alleged high suicide rates and other mental health or developmental issues being prevalent. For a quick starter they've pathologised playing with the wrong toys as a child, and as Dr Zucker points out they really must look at what is happening and what might be driving it instead of reinforcing it.

[–]gcsupergirlbright eyes, big mouth 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Can.. can we like, please be maybe a little bit more specific here, in the interests of not making it sound like homosexuality is caused by mental illness and/or a form of mental illness itself?

You're talking about the TQ here, not the LGB. Please say so.

As a mentally ill lesbian, hearing someone talk about how horrible it is that the link between mental illness and homosexuality hasn't been studied more makes me sick. Homosexuality has been demonstrated in a huge number of non-human species and is demonstrably not anything to do with mental illness, thanks.

Trans and "Queer" on the other hand.. well, obviously there is no natural equivalent and it can certainly be linked to certain forms of mental illness (or developmental disability, as the OP brings up). But they are a completely different "animal" to LGB people.

[–]zpkucn 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm another mentally ill lesbian and I do wonder if there's more to the connection than just stigma. Whether it is or not, I'd be really interested in seeing research on that. We can't block studies just because we might not like the results. Even if mental illness and homosexuality are linked, that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with being homosexual or that homosexuality is a result of mental illness.

I definitely agree that when studying this kind of thing you need to separate the letters in LGBTQ rather than treating them as one group.

[–]sodiumflareshomicidal lesbian terrorist 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think very often what people think of when they hear 'stigma' fails to really encompass the whole reality of growing up gay in a straight world. It feels like saying 'gay people are mentally ill because people are mean to us', which okay that's hardly a minor factor, but it's so superficial. We are forced to grow up with a deep and integral part of ourselves that no-one gives us words for, like raising a child and never letting it learn the word for happiness. We are, deliberately or otherwise, undersocialised by our culture and our families. It's profoundly traumatic on a really deep level.

[–]EStarwind 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree. I am talking about all of the LGBTQ. Just because homosexual behavior is observed in non-human animals doesn't mean its connection to mental illness is nil. If it were, we couldn't use them as (albeit imperfect) models for depression, anxiety, and other psychopathology.

It doesn't make me feel wonderful either as a bisexual, but sexual orientation is heritable (identical twins more alike than same sex fraternal) just like transgenderism and psychopathology are. The hypothesis of whether they overlap genetically can be tested with a decent degree of certainty even in classic twin studies, no DNA testing required, but I know of no modern, well-done, and large scale study of this.

I hope the correlation is entirely due to social factors, but I am unconvinced that it is. Either way, my level of guilt/shame (lack thereof) remains largely the same. If some of the biological reasons I am anxious also increased my chance of being bisexual, so be it. Neither make me a bad person undeserving of respect.

If the evidence were bullet-proof, I would have heard it by now. Instead, there is only deafening silence - aside from history lessons about how bigoted and unethical researchers used to be.

[–]gcsupergirlbright eyes, big mouth -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Trans "identity" has never been shown to be heritable. I want sources showing the genetic and heritable nature of trans "identity" please.

Thanks for trying to send gay and lesbian people back to the good ol' days of asylums and torture to "fix" our "mental illness" of homosexuality. Nice to know that the homophobia on this sub hasn't abated even a little tiny bit during the time I was away from it.

I mean, it's not like any gay person has ever heard that they just ~think they're gay because they're mentally ill~. But what would you care about how gay people are treated as a result of your homophobic, offensive assumptions -- you're bisexual.

Eff off.

[–]Mortongransname 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think, what they're trying to say, is that for some, homosexuality may be something to do with stress, fertility and overall population balance, not that homosexuals are all deranged. That being easily tweaked, and bonding without risk of producing offspring, might be coincidental but might also have been an evolutionary advantage for social creatures like us trying to survive through nasty environments that won't support massive populations.

[–]gcsupergirlbright eyes, big mouth 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If someone is only engaging in gay/lesbian relationships because they don't want babies or whatever, they're bisexual, not gay or lesbian. Being gay or being a lesbian is hardwired, it's not a choice. To say otherwise is offensive and deeply homophobic.

[–]smokeyapaloosaRefusing to Be a Doormat 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hey, you're allowed to have your opinion on this subject but from all of your responses in this thread it just seems that you want to shut other down. If the correlation between mental illness and homosexuality is studied more, it could really help some people out we would have a better understanding of those who are suffering. No one is saying that absolutely everyone who is gay is mentally ill, it's just that studies have shown that depression, anxiety, and other ailments like bipolar disorder are more prevalent in people who are gay or lesbian. There is nothing offensive about wanting to research why.

I can understand if you've been hurt for people telling you "it's just a phase" or "You're just sick in the head" for being gay, but this issue extends beyond just you. Don't put words in other people's mouths and call them homophobic just for trying to have a discussion about something that is ultimately very important for the LGB community to be talking about.

[–]CelesteChalfonteAmerican is my 3rd language 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're talking about the TQ here, not the LGB. Please say so.

This lesbian thanks you for saying this. I am NOT part of the "queer/trans" community. They have hijacked lesbianism and Gay/Bi rights, to our detriment.

[–]Meowzz12 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not "could". It's true! Not every trans child is autistic but there is a LARGE number of autistic people transitioning.

[–]radgender 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Woah, I just realized something. I'm also on the autism spectrum and extremely GNC despite being heterosexual. I often think think that if I had been raised in a time/place other than my circumstances, I would have gladly clung to the "trans man" identity as a solution for my unhappiness, because practicing femininity was never going to happen for me and I was constantly belittled and bullied in relation to that fact.

An argument I often hear from trans supporters (trans and non-trans alike) is that gender is "innate" and if you don't "feel" your gender then you are trans or agender of some sort. Even real women have told me they believe that, insinuating that they think they do "feel" like a woman for some reason. I've never felt that way in my life, and I wonder if it's because autism makes it so difficult to internalize and practice social conformities naturally (usually presenting irregular eye contact, weird speech patterns) that most of us don't really internalize gender conformities either (not implying all neurotypicals do, but maybe more of them do, especially het ones). So it makes sense that once autistic people are able to understand gender (either on a very basic level through being berated for having repetitive habits which have been stereotyped as not matching their sex, or for older kids being able to logically deconstruct gender in regards how to how it presents in Neurotypicals around them) they realize they just don't "match", and if you don't "match" then you must be the opposite.