全 55 件のコメント

[–]KeyserSozen 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Alert alert!! A particular individual has been spotted in /r/zen Alert Alert!!

What if, instead of seeing particular individuals manifesting certain behavior, you just saw the behavior manifesting, and addressed it as such? It's not about those people over there or even that one asshole here. We all carry the seeds of fascism in us.

I think the moderators could do a finer job if they would discern behavior better and moderate behavior rather than "people". "Reputations" aren't real; if anybody should get that, it's denizens of /r/zen, right?

[–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

if the mods did much of anything it'd be better than what we have now. the behavior that i find particularly unbecoming and insufferable is a general air of incivility and combat, and the mod's do-nothing non-approach of "we're not the comment police" needs to address the shameful dialogic death spiral that this sub has been undergoing for years. nor should specific solutions for specific users be left out of that equation, regardless of the absolute nonexistence of particulars

[–]KeyserSozen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you live in a pile of crap, you gradually get acclimated to it and can't smell it as well as when you first showed up. And if it gradually becomes crappier, it's hard to notice, and at some point it's hard to see how it could be any different than it is. "You mean zen isn't about flinging shit at each other and vying to be king of the shit pile?! You must be illiterate."

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

we should all take a good whiff of our shit every time we shit it out so we don't forget the smell

[–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh, I do. I squish it through my fingers.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm not going to be so wishy-washy when the issue is blatant and distinct. While I have compassion for the individual, their actions and behavior is incredibly coercive and not to mention spammy and abusive. Their behaviour is clearly breaking rules, yet it's allowed to fly. You can take your hippyness and apply it anywhere else. This is a conversation about the forum, not a pretend Zen master conversation.

[–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

My hippyness extends throughout the universe. It's tickling your bum right now.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well you can stop that shit cuz I don't consent you fucking twinky.

[–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (19子コメント)

i wonder if r|zen is a condensation itself of the problems and benefits of reddit, a lot of people arguing from very different viewpoints, the differences so wide there is no possibility of reconciliation ?

[–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (14子コメント)

i'd say the internet in general. there's plenty of possibility for reconciliation everywhere, if people can learn some humility and respect in the way they speak to each other

[–]ZippityZoppity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Very well put. It's very easy to establish your ego has a shield and a thing that needs to be protected when online.

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

people get too invested in discussion and should adopt a learner's attitude towards things

[–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

thinking only carries you so far !

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

that's why we act. "speak!" really means "do something!"

[–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"speak!" really means "do something!"

crap !

[–]zenthrowaway17 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Why would you respect someone you don't know?

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

being respectful to someone is not the same thing as having respect for them. the first is a basic standard of decency, the second is earned admiration

...are you for real?

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Basic standard of decency?

Doesn't sound familiar.

I act in accord with the specific person before me.

Not everyone responds well to polite mannerisms.

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

ok well your parents don't appear to have taught you very well then. mommy and daddy taught me how to work with people i don't agree with (hint: it didn't involve hypocrisy, belittling, or ad homenim) when i was little. i don't know about you but i like reading discussions where the level of discourse is above an elementary school level

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Imagine I want to build a suspension bridge across a river and you want to build a dam.

I suggest that the dam will have negative effects you aren't anticipating.

You disagree.

So...

Yeah.

I'm going to sabotage your stupid dam.

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

that's a piss poor analogy with very little relevance to "how to have a decent conversation 101"

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Let's change the bridge to a ferry service then.

I want to take people across the river in boats, as circumstances of the river+whatnot dictate, kind of free-form.

You want to build some kind of "structure" of "rules" that permanently bridges the river and everyone can get across the same way.

Does this analogy make more sense now?

Sound familiar?

I'm sure there are some stories like this in the literature...

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

im bored of this. "people ought to be more civil here" shouldn't be such a disagreeable thing to say

[–]ZippityZoppity 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think it's the differences that hamper reconciliation, I think it's the egos behind them. It's hard for people in general to admit when they're wrong or to try and open their mind to other points of view.

Maybe hard is not the right word, but instead people resist it.

[–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

they don't have the skill set for "aporetic" !

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean, the issue isn't even differences in viewpoints or opinion. It's just lack of moderation where moderation is required. It could be particular to Reddit, but it has everything to do with bad and selective moderation.

[–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

but it has everything to do with bad and selective moderation.

who makes the good and bad ?

[–]sdwoodchuckThe Funk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Yet there are some individuals who are coercive and threatening, who seek to be in positions of power. Generally, such individuals adhere to an ideology which they can clearly present as superior to other ideologies as a means to have power. The very nature of their struggle is one which involves a dogmatic set of principles which act as an entity seeking to destroy others and defend itself.

That's just about the best description of the Muju's and Solarians and the goofy mysticism-pushing fakers here that I've read. Good work!

In this way, it is a very fascist and coercive behaviour, incredibly subversive, dangerous and bullyish.

Well no, it's just goofy and childish and embarrassing.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Lol nope, that's a description of ewk. And if you think that describes Muju, then I feel sorry for you, because he has guided me and helped me cut off the way of thought completely and realize this great matter intimately. Everyone shoots themselves in the foot with all their extreme skeptical doubt. If you actually practiced and achieved fruit of that practice, you wouldn't think in this way. But it's so full of hatred against perceived charlatans. What Muju says is so simple, but aversion turns people away. Incredibly foolish, I've experienced directly. That is what Zen is about.

[–]theksepyro>mfw I have no face 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol

[–]sdwoodchuckThe Funk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (10子コメント)

I know exactly who you intended it to be a description of; you're awfully transparent about it. My post was mocking your stance by pointing out the irony involved. It's also funny that you make an effort to describe dogmatic sets of principles by people trying desperately to present their ideology as superior in the same thread that you call people foolish for not buying into what you purport to have bought into. It's not only goofy, childish, and embarrassing, it's also hypocritical!

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Lol Zen is about expedient means. You realize the One Mind, no-mind, the great matter in any number of ways. Muju has put forth countless methods, he has no dogma other than what is expedient. Ewk on the other hand doesn't have real Zen experience and he distorts the entire tradition and whay the ancients meant, I don't know how one can defend him. Actually I can, it's because he caters to a certain sort of thinking, but whatever that is, it's not Zen. Also, I'm not going to denigrate you in any way, there's no need for that.

[–]sdwoodchuckThe Funk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Where to start? You say Muju has no dogma; either you haven't read much of what Muju spews, or you have some other reason to defend him. Not really my concern which it is.

Ewk on the other hand doesn't have real Zen experience and he distorts the entire tradition and whay the ancients meant, I don't know how one can defend him.

See, here you go again. You make claims about his "Zen experience" and his distortions of what the "ancients meant," but have no basis by which you derive the authority on "whay[sic] they meant" in order to come to this conclusion. It's the definition of the kind of false superiority you complain about.

And who is defending Ewk? The entire concept is an awkward strawman.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The basis is fucking in the tradition, ask anyone else on here who actually has real experience with the tradition in it's traditional form. Ewks views are abnormal! They aren't traditional! They are his own strange manipulation of the Zen texts. He uses them as a tool to big-up his own ego. If you can't see that, and if you can't see how Muju and some others actually represent the real tradition then there's nothing I can say to convince you.

[–]sdwoodchuckThe Funk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm not looking for you to convince me any more than I'm looking for ewk to convince me of anything he says. Again, your whole angle on this is a goofy, embarrassing strawman where I'm somehow on ewk's "side." You're incapable of actually listening to what people say instead of assembling a bizarre made-up intent behind what they're saying and then arguing against that. I'd be surprised if it weren't for the fact that all of Muju's "supporters" seem to suffer from this identical blind-spot in their reasoning.

It's actually quite the astounding coincidence.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Dude, you're the one making a stretch, this whole convo was about ewk, yet you came in talking about hypocrisy, the onlt hypocrisy is from ewk, that's the subject of discussion. I don't care what you think about Muju, I'm talking about him, fine, he helped me and h actually stands for real Zen not buji nonsense. The real point is the ones made of ewk. You came here just being altogether antagonistic, so whether you agree with ewk or not, you have just as bad behaviour as him.

[–]sdwoodchuckThe Funk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I came in here telling you that your complaints apply to your own reasoning. i.e. I called you a hypocrite. If calling you a hypocrite for being a hypocrite is what you call antagonism, then who am I to argue?

this whole convo was about ewk

That's your problem; why would I make it mine?

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How am I a hypocrite? I don't shut down people and attack them if they don't follow my views.

[–]Sunn_Samaadh[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Also, I don't go on every thread and disregard the topic while attacking people.

So no, I'm not a hypocrite.

[–]zenthrowaway17 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Forum seems fine to me.

Did somebody hack your IP and kidnap you and force you to sign some kind of contract?

Sounds traumatic!

[–]indiadamjones 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Truth seems very subjective me. However, if you all of the sudden reframed your disposition, in terms of feelings...and I think one could infer your feelings here...Then, you would have some 'truth' as far as, this accurately representing your feelings. A different kind of approach to truth, where we acknowledge the communications of others instead of ignoring them in lieu of facts.

[–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

First, you didn't quote Zen Masters in your post, so other than your claim that your post is about Zen or /r/Zen, there is no evidence of that.

Second, your claim that there is "behavior" that needs to be addressed cites no examples, neither does your claim that anybody is being idolized.

Your inability to provide examples suggests that your entire view is basically imaginary, that your perceptions are more fantasy than anything else.

My question is why would you think your fantasies are relevant in this forum? Or is that the kind of discussion that you want to destroy?

[–]dec1phahZenIsPsychology...GetOverIt! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Before you tell people what to do and how, you might learn first how to treat individuals in general: as equals.

No offense, but you sound authoritative and tend to patronize others (don't take it too personal, you're not the only one round here)

[–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

that's a pretty patronizing way to call someone patronizing...

[–]dec1phahZenIsPsychology...GetOverIt! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I've expected that.

Soooooo many clever boys and girls hanging around here :D

It's like the think tank... of everything!

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

not trying to be clever, it was the obvious reply so i don't really see why it's clever.

i just mean that "before you x, you might learn y" is a pretty douchey & passive aggressive way to put a simple message and pointing out that they're being patronizing in a patronizing tone helps nobody.

moreover, even if it is a bit patronizing, that doesn't mean he's wrong. there is a serious issue with what op mentioned in this sub

[–]dec1phahZenIsPsychology...GetOverIt! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, there are no issues at all with this sub. Who's not having the balls to interact freely with other individuals and not being afraid of getting roasted, is not at the right place.

This is the zen forum. Honesty and courage are the ingredients of the followers everyday meal.

[–]NegativeGPA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Reddit ignore/block feature is useful if you dislike an individual