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Announcement of a ban (self.zen)

Temiccochán[M] が 投稿 - announcement

Hi /r/zen denizens,

We have decided to ban /u/ozogot from /r/zen for trolling and breaking site-wide rules.

This user has a history of spamming the forum, and has admitted (screenshot here) to sharing accounts with "other trolls" and using alts to circumvent earlier bans, an action in violation of the site-wide rules which are the only rules that moderators must enforce. The mods have tried many measures with this user in the past, banning them before and even letting them back in provided they get their act together, but the problems have continued and we are tired of dealing with them, particularly in light of the above admission.

Several points should be clarified at this time.

First, /u/ozogot, under both this and previous usernames, frequently posted interesting and on-topic content to the forum (as well as some more questionable stuff, granted). We're disappointed to be losing a source of such good content, as many of you probably are as well.

Secondly, it is obvious that /u/ozogot had a definite stance on Zen and many of their posts expressed clear opinions. We are not banning them for their opinion on Zen, and we will never do that to anyone. This is not the start of some ideological purge.

Thirdly, alts per se do not violate reddit's rules, but using alts for vote manipulation or to circumvent penalties does.

We hope to keep moving the forum in a better direction, and believe that this was a necessary if unpleasant and unhappy step along the way. It would have been nice if ozogot's intentions were earnest and if they hadn't broken site-wide rules, in which case this wouldn't have had to happen. Please let us know any of your questions, comments, and concerns in the comment section.

Sincerely,

Moderators of /r/zen

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[–]NegativeGPA 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think this is a good policy - announcing bans with reasonings. It adds to mod transparency, gets a discussion going, and can help act as a preventative measure

[–]zenthrowaway17 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (24子コメント)

I like that you made a post about it.

But when's the next Koan of the Month coming out?

[–]Temiccochán[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Lol, /u/Hwadu would know the answer :)

[–]NegativeGPA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If I tag someone in a message to the mods, does he see it in his normal notifications?

[–]Temiccochán[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't think so, or at least I've been operating under the assumption that PMs really are private messages, lol.

[–]NegativeGPA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'll need to start spamming your mod mail with more KOTM requests

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (19子コメント)

why aren't they on top of it?

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (18子コメント)

Maybe they figure we've had enough koans lately?

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (17子コメント)

but then they should tell us that. i'll do one tonight on r/zen_minus_ewk, book of equanimity sound good? i could also do transmission of the lamp if we want to do one more focused

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (16子コメント)

Maybe Hwadu got hit by a bus.

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (15子コメント)

they don't really feel like a part of this community most of the time

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I can't say I'd want the people most invested in this community to moderate it.

People here are nuts.

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (13子コメント)

nobody said anything about getting the people who spend too much time here or take it too seriously to do it, just people who aren't mostly distant

[–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I see pyro and temi around.

How distant is too distant?

[–]deepthinker420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

when it's "not doing your job until people start leaving and the subreddit devolves into uncivil chaos and even then not even doing too little too late but instead solving a problem which arose in response to the elephant in the room" too distant

[–]grass_skirtacademic 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (141子コメント)

Looks like the better troll fell foul of the rules first. I think this is a function of how he made no attempt to be slippery and evade the letter of the rules... which more long-lived trolls manage to do.

/u/ozogot was just very upfront about his trolling, and walked around with a target on his chest.

I'm glad to see the forum's rules are being followed to the letter, don't get me wrong! I'm a big fan of "the letter".

But I also look forward to any future incarnations of /u/ozogot, assuming he even wants to experience rebirth in this "place of deprivation".

Thanks /u/Temicco for your considered explanatory announcement.

[–]tostonotogozo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (120子コメント)

If they were followed to the letter ewk's question would have been removed.

[–]grass_skirtacademic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (119子コメント)

I agree. I just think ewk tries so hard to weave a euphemistic narrative around himself, justifying his trolling and pretending it's something else, that it puts the mods in a bind.

Ewk's self-justification narrative has some traction here, at least, and discussing the rationale or intent of it often feels like competitive contortionism.

I can only hope that ozogot's sacrifice manages to set a non-controversial precedent for banning others in the future. I can see that having strong utility, when it comes to moderating Soc.

[–]rockytimberWei 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ozogot's sacrifice

Would have been in violation of reddit admin NOT to ban u/ozogot. Not really any choice there, unless reddit policy were to be more flexible, as in allowing for restitution of some sort, community service, public apology, etc. It was only a matter of timing, and evidently there was some preparation for the communities likely reaction.

Funny choice of word, sacrifice, there. Are you mythologizing here as actively as academics are trying to "de-mythologize" the zen characters? Am I being too hagiographical here for current events? Shall we admit that iconoclastic stereotyping is simply political posturing, based on what is liked, what is disliked, what suits political purpose, and what doesn't? How about de-mythologizing the lie of academic neutrality?

[–]ewk -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (116子コメント)

Your complaints about me aren't based on quotes or citations, like your quotes about Zen Masters. Why would you campaign against someone in multiple forums without ever providing evidence?

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/5jbunz/zen_and_buddhism/dbezz37/?context=5

https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/5jf0f9/the_reddiquette_vs_buddhist_bigots/

Take your religious bigotry back to /r/Buddhism.

[–]Temiccochán[S,M] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (109子コメント)

/u/grass_skirt, I see no rule violations here. No need to move forums.

(As an aside, I feel like a broken record machine. At what point does something become spam? Maybe a good topic for a subreddit discussion.)

[–]Sunn_Samaadh 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ewk's spam is about 20x worse than ozogots. Why isn't he banned?

Literally spamming "alt-troll", "proselytizer" and such nonsense perpetually. his comments are the same in every thread. Why the fuck isn't he banned?

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      [–]chintokkong 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (17子コメント)

      Hahaha, it's strange but I actually respect ozogot for being upfront. But somehow the way things are structured, 伪君子 tends to get accomodated more.

      [–]Sunn_Samaadh 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

      Same. It's a strange thing that people speak ill of him and his character when I honestly thank him for his posting. He has been doing good work.

      [–]chintokkong 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yup, he's been posting good stuff and he did what he wanted to do, and the mods did what they felt should be done, and we are here saying what we appreciate of ozogot.

      Life moves in strange ways.

      [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Guy who doesn't post about Zen commiserates with other guy who doesn't post Zen about how a troll got banned for not posting about Zen.

      Irony density approaches black hole dimensions.

      [–]chintokkong 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Oh, I've got a follower, hahaha!

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        [–]ewk -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (9子コメント)

        He was upfront after he had trolled for awhile. That's not upfront.

        That's what criminals do... steal, and then brag about how they stole.

        If you admire people that can't abide by vows, then probs you want to move on to a website where there are no user agreements.

        [–]chintokkong 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        Mmm... it's interesting that I am replying to grass_skirt's comment, yet after just a few minutes I received this comment of yours.

        Are you stalking me?

        [–]ewk -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        It's funny how you want to pretend that it's stalking when you get called out for comments you make that are are flakier than a French croissant... in a thread about a guy who is hanging onto reality by a thin thread.

        If you can't respond to my comment, then why pretend?

        He was upfront after he had trolled for awhile. That's not upfront. That's what criminals do... steal, and then brag about how they stole.

        If you admire people that can't abide by vows, then probs you want to move on to a website where there are no user agreements.

        You aren't honest in this forum and you try to defend a dishonest person... and fail spectacularly.

        That's super cool.

        [–]chintokkong 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Oh, so you're stalking me and trying to 'call me out' for my replies to other redditors. Hahaha, keep on calling.

        [–]ewk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I read through the thread. I noticed you were lying. Now I noticed you are trying to avoid addressing your lie by claiming I'm stalking you.

        Typical troll stuff on your part.

        [–]chintokkong 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Ok. Thanks for explaining your behaviour.

        If you admire people that can't abide by vows, then probs you want to move on to a website where there are no user agreements.

        Who I respect is my business. Why be a busybody?

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Are you suggesting that anybody who calls you out for lying in a discussion forum is a "busybody"?

        lol.

        Liars can't be choosers.

        [–]chintokkong 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Hahaha, that's not my suggestion of course. It's very clear what I meant.

        If you have difficulty understanding and has to resort to imaginary accusations, well, just keep on calling me out. Hahaha. It will be interesting to see who really cares about what we are talking here.

        [–]Linchimodo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        🔔

        reply with silence to silence the bell

        [–]TheSolarian -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I respect /u/ozogot for actually doing the research and providing clear evidence to shatter false views.

        Great work.

        [–]chintokkong 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yup yup, he makes good posts!

        [–]RingtailRuffian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Here is my target, please show me the error of my way.

        [–]deepthinker420 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        don't pretend like you idiots actually mod this forum. shame on each and every one of you

        [–]KeyserSozen 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (61子コメント)

        This illustrates how /r/zen is not a sangha. Did the moderators work with /u/ozogot to acknowledge the issues that he continuously brought up, or were they waiting for a gotcha moment so that they could ban someone they found irritating?

        Prohibitions never work. There should be a procedure for rectifying/healing problems; instead the moderators take the lazy route of banning people, pushing them away.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (29子コメント)

        The below is me giving my personal opinions for why I supported the ban. I can't speak for the other mods.

        Basically, for me it comes down to ozogot having long been a thorn in both mods' and users' sides, whose spammy and trolly content (which I discuss later in this comment) occupied an inordinate amount of moderator time and efforts, continuing to be posted in spite of repeated warnings.

        (As an aside, this kind of content only contributes to the sub's divisiveness and anger. We need space to breathe if we're gonna be actively working on the sub, including the issues that ozogot has brought up (namely ewk's posting habits), and so long as he was posting and commenting like he was, we were just being flooded with complaints and reports and the sub was being flooded with... a lot, both good and bad.)

        Keep in mind that the issues with ozogot run way back, and I had messaged him recently telling him to stop spamming the sub (to little effect -- he replied "yeah, you too lol" and there was no discernable change in his posting behaviour). We also had a conversation in modmail going for a little while immediately preceding the ban, in which he refused to talk plainly about his own behaviour. The mods have given him lots of warnings and chances to address and change his behaviour, and at a certain point he just stopped taking them.

        (As well, regarding his use of alts it's always good to cover our ass. And it's only fair that I respect reddit's policies if I'd like people to respect those of the /r/zen moderators.)

        Did the moderators work with /u/ozogot to acknowledge the issues that he continuously brought up[...]?

        Prohibitions never work. There should be a procedure for rectifying/healing problems; instead the moderators take the lazy route of banning people, pushing them away.

        I agree, more or less. We're not ignoring ozogot's complaints; I'm actually still talking to him via modmail. But refer to the last moderation attitude on the policy page -- we're not going to hold off on addressing someone's behaviour just because it stems from another issue. Ozogot's behaviour was an issue in itself.

        that screenshot doesn't demonstrate that he broke any rules recently, so why the ban now?

        I include examples of some of his recent spammy content below. But you're right, and it's really just an old issue coming to a head, spurred on by recent attempts to communicate with him in which he showed he had little interest in doing so.

        Examples of recent deleted spam from /u/ozogot:

        Ewk is a pedophile. He recently had his child taken from him by CPS so he can troll /r/zen without a baby crying in the background.

        or

        Hell no, you fucking pedo. Kill yourself.

        or strings of replies of

        Coward, illiterate, faith based buddhist, liar, fraud, nutbaker, etc etc etc fuck you alt_troll. We all know you are ewk.

        just written outright and repeatedly. Or

        You can go fuck yourself.

        That's just from perusing stuff from the past few days on this one profile of his. Another mod could comment on some of his contributions from earlier incarnations.

        I am hoping the sub will a bit less spammy now so that we can focus our efforts on the elephant in the room, that we have yet to tackle head-on: ewk's behaviour, how it relates to mod policies and actions, and what should be done about it.

        [–]KeyserSozen 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (25子コメント)

        I am hoping the sub will a bit less spammy now so that we can focus our efforts on the elephant in the room, that we have yet to tackle head-on: ewk's behaviour, how it relates to mod policies and actions, and what should be done about it.

        If you're sincere about that, fine. But I don't see any other moderator talking that way. They've been protecting ewk for years, which is a major reason for ozogot's antagonism. How can he (or anyone) take you guys seriously when you consistently protect the elephant in the room?

        Although I'm not privy to your private conversation with ozogot, I think it's a mistake to say "well we talked to him, and he brushed us off, so that's that." There are other ways to talk; maybe making a public post like this before banning him would've allowed things to get discussed in a way that doesn't seem antagonistic. This post is a step in the right direction of transparency, but it's still an after-the-fact recording, and judging by this thread, not many people support the ban.

        Also, regarding ozogot's wild accusations, I hope you get that he was calling you out. He was quoting ewk's disengenuous complaint:

        So, comments that specifically target one user based on false information and that are intended to insult and marginalize that person's view, those comments can be okay?

        This is something that ewk has been doing pretty much every day for years. And now he has the audacity to complain to the moderators because he feels like /u/grass_skirt is harassing and marginalizing him?!

        Ozogot took that hypocrisy and ran with it. Did you notice that ewk never denied being a pedophile? Well, that says it all, folks! Or, if you're offended by that accusation, you could ask ozogot for his definition of "pedophile". Perhaps, like ewk, he has an idiosyncratic definition for every one of the names he calls people, so that he can say he's merely "labeling", not engaging in ad hominem in order to discredit people who disagree with him. I hope you get the point...

        [–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        this entire mess has happened because the mods refuse to do anything about ewk.

        i say coup

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (19子コメント)

        Ozogot was just the guy who turned up to the party in an elephant costume, hoping that maybe then the penny would drop.

        If he intentionally got himself banned by mirroring ewk, (and I really don't know either way, but if...) it could be because he knew that would demonstrate conclusively that ewk has manipulated the mods over the years.

        Bring on the invisible elephant handlers, I say.

        [–]tostonotogozo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Bring on the invisible elephant handlers, I say.

        u/temicco This is the same tool I mentioned, expressed differently.

        [–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        why do the mods here protect and ignore him to this extent?

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I don't know exactly. My speculations about this include:

        1) Some of them might agree with ewk's arguments

        2) Some of them might enjoy his style

        3) Some of them might think he raises good points which lead to healthy debate

        4) Some of them might think that "troll" is just a label that cannot be substantiated. (Until now, see /u/ozogot)

        5) Some of them might think that "troll" is a label that cannot be substantiated in ewk's case

        6) Some of them might think that moderation rules don't apply in a Zen forum. (Until now, see /u/ozogot)

        7) Some of them might feel their hands are tied because of other mods and/or their assessment of the community's love of ewk

        8) Some of them just haven't worked out what to do about this situation

        9) Some of them are planning to take action(s) against ewk, but just haven't done it yet.

        But these are only possible theories, nothing I could say for sure at this stage. I know they've been discussing this issue a lot, and I've heard a little bit about the mods' respective views on ewk. But the exact reason or reasons, I'm really not sure about.

        [–]deepthinker420 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        if they think "healthy debate" goes on very often in this sub they really need to get their heads checked. nothing about the often arrogant and hostile environment in this sub is okay

        this problem has gone on for years and there is no excuse for this level of inaction. the level of discourse on the internet and in society in general is inexcusable and shameful and this sub is just a microcosm of that, albeit one that's a sad charictature of zen at times

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        if they think "healthy debate" goes on very often in this sub they really need to get their heads checked.

        I think some members of this forum have an overly aggrandised view of what this forum is actually doing and achieving. Like this here forum is Zen central, or the cutting edge of Zen thinking, or just the best scoop on Truth and Dispute to be found on the internet.

        I think there is a lot of potential here, for sure, but I think we shouldn't be getting ahead of ourselves. It would improve if all the people who cringed and unsubscribed actually came back, having discussions. The pool of commenters who have remained is pretty small and closed-off. It's claustrophobic.

        [–]deepthinker420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        this sub is pretty circlejerky since most of the good people got fed up and left, but i agree, let's not pretend like this sub is anything other than a forum for us to learn and share ideas. the problem is that those tend to require good communication skills and an environment which lends itself to quality conversation, things which this community is in desperate need of

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        He didn't mirror me.

        He mirrored what he could mirror given his level of study.

        [–]Healthspinindependent 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Well here we have it. Studying Zen DOES let you attain something. The ability to mirror ewk.. Interesting!

        [–]KeyserSozen -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        it could be because he knew that would demonstrate conclusively that ewk has manipulated the mods over the years.

        I think that's partly right, but he also knew that putting so much energy into /r/zen and engaging with negativity every day wasn't healthy for him. Taking a break from it could be good.

        The difference is that /u/ewk is still in denial about how his negativity has affected him over these years. Here he is drinking tea. The fake ignore lists, "choke", "pwn", "AMA!", and copypasta can all be seen as cries for help from a man who's desperate for a path out of his addiction.

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        It certainly does sound like a cry for help, more so as time wears on.

        Funny cartoon! Wanna see another funny cartoon?

        [–]KeyserSozen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I like his attitude. He's got my vote!

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        The kind of guy I'd rather share a beer with.

        [–]KeyserSozen 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I wouldn't drink on an airplane...

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I wouldn't want the pilot practicing zazen either, for that matter.

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        So... a guy who shares accounts with trollers and himself uses multiple accounts to avoid accountability... accuses ewk of manipulating people... with what?

        A list of books? https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/wiki/lineagetexts

        Eventually literacy is going to have pwnd you for so long that you'll have to attribute magical powers to me.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        If you're sincere about that, fine. But I don't see any other moderator talking that way. They've been protecting ewk for years, which is a major reason for ozogot's antagonism. How can he (or anyone) take you guys seriously when you consistently protect the elephant in the room?

        I don't think any other moderator feels that way.

        That said, people also need to realize that spamming and/or trolling doesn't help anything, no matter if it's out of frustration with ewk.

        Although I'm not privy to your private conversation with ozogot, I think it's a mistake to say "well we talked to him, and he brushed us off, so that's that." There are other ways to talk; maybe making a public post like this before banning him would've allowed things to get discussed in a way that doesn't seem antagonistic. This post is a step in the right direction of transparency, but it's still an after-the-fact recording, and judging by this thread, not many people support the ban.

        That is true; we should definitely start working on a drawing up a clear and definite banning procedure.

        Ozogot took that hypocrisy and ran with it. Did you notice that ewk never denied being a pedophile? Well, that says it all, folks! Or, if you're offended by that accusation, you could ask ozogot for his definition of "pedophile". Perhaps, like ewk, he has an idiosyncratic definition for every one of the names he calls people, so that he can say he's merely "labeling", not engaging in ad hominem in order to discredit people who disagree with him. I hope you get the point...

        Yeah. The grass_skirt complaint is especially ridiculous.

        I think a policy like "Directed hostility (as judged by a moderator) is subject to three strikes before a one-day ban, two additional offenses for a month long ban, and a single last offense for an indefinite ban. Confused? To play it safe, just talk about Zen and not the other users." would go a long way towards helping things.

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I think a policy like "Directed hostility (as judged by a moderator) is subject to three strikes before a one-day ban, two additional offenses for a month long ban, and a single last offense for an indefinite ban. Confused? To play it safe, just talk about Zen and not the other users." would go a long way towards helping things.

        It definitely would. But that sounds like the old "regulated threads" idea, which caused ewk to meltdown and threaten to leave in a hissy-fit unless the moderators got rid of the rule (which they did). I say, sure, give it a shot again. What's the worst that could happen?

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        But that sounds like the old "regulated threads" idea, which caused ewk to meltdown and threaten to leave in a hissy-fit unless the moderators got rid of the rule (which they did).

        Did it? Do you have any links or should I just search?

        The regulated threads are more confusing, anyway, requiring familiarity with two registers of conduct.

        There's a few things we're still working through but I'll bring this up in due time.

        [–]TheSolarian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        That's completely deranged. Ewk does a lot of that on a very regular basis with no real benefit.

        /u/ozogot simply served him his own dish.

        You have just made the elephant in the room that much greater, by justifying his deranged views.

        /u/ozogot was providing evidence that ewk doesn't have the slightest clue, using the sources ewk cites all the time.

        What should be done about it, is that you should unban /u/ozogot, tell him to knock off some of the more extreme insults, and leave him to serve ewk his own dishes, which he was doing.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Ewk never called people "fucking pedo" or told them to kill themselves, nor shared accounts with "other trolls" nor evaded bans. It's not as simple as ozogot just serving ewk his own dish.

        What should be done about it, is that you should unban /u/ozogot, tell him to knock off some of the more extreme insults, and leave him to serve ewk his own dishes, which he was doing.

        I'd rather the forum not consist entirely of pointless dick-slapping.

        [–]TheSolarian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Yes, Ozogot is great and he was moving to get the forum away from pointless dick-slapping. His research is actually good, and far better than most of the pointless dickslapping that occurs.

        [–]RingtailRuffian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        What if it is a Sangha?

        If that were a persistent truth despite yourself, what would that be like? Is that so horrible? At what point does phenomena become a Sangha? At what point does it end? When can I trust myself to know the difference?

        I hope for the release from suffering for anyone in my community that my expression makes contact with. I believe it is not the words I say but the awareness of the increasing space behind them and the comfort I feel in my thoughts, emotions, and physical self to be my honest self that there is no fear in telling anyone I meet exactly how I feel. There is no need or merit in this behavior, but if I am doing it despite myself, I have only one question left for anyone, including me, that suggests I should stop paying attention to what I am and how I am happening:

        What am I feeling right now?

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (26子コメント)

        He's been banned by Reddit admins based on his IP before.

        He bragged about violating Reddit rules.

        If the mods don't take it seriously they can get in trouble with Reddit admins.

        You have used multiple usernames in this forum and for similar reasons.

        My question is where is the evidence of his entering any sangha? Where is the evidence of you ever entering any sangha?

        [–]RingtailRuffian 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        I'm here! Can I help you? Can you help me?

        At what point have I begun to help? At what point did you save me?

        What is your honest feeling?

        What am I feeling right now?

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        Have some tea.

        To be fair, I feel that frequently.

        [–]RingtailRuffian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        What are we having today?

        [–]NegativeGPA 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I was worried that you were gone

        [–]RingtailRuffian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I love you so much. I am here for as long as you need me.

        What am I feeling right now?

        [–]ewk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Mystery Oolong.

        [–]RingtailRuffian 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        It is truly a mystery because I have forgotten what it was like to taste an Oolong tea.

        [–]RingtailRuffian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It has been a long time since I had some and I do not practice drinking tea often enough to recall it swiftly.

        [–]KeyserSozen 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (16子コメント)

        He's been banned by Reddit admins based on his IP before.

        Not according to the links in this post.

        He bragged about violating Reddit rules.

        How so? What rule was /u/ogozot violating, say, yesterday or the day before? This post doesn't say.

        [–]ewk -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (15子コメント)

        I notice that you don't take up the question of sangha that you raised.

        I'll just go along that way if you don't mind.

        1. If somebody shows up at your house and chops up a cat, are they a student of Nanquan or not?

        2. If that somebody then does the stuff listed below, does that have bearing?

          • Persistent identity manipulation
          • intent to inflame masked by minimal use of relevant content
          • identity and content deception

        I think the situation raised in this post is exactly the same as the situation raised by the multiple sexual harassment claims against the Japanese Buddhist Kyozan Joshu Sasaki. Was he genuinely interested in sangha and a sexual predator, or just a sexual predator who used sanghas to find victims that were easier targets?

        Given that this forum exists in an atmosphere where people claiming to be religious routinely mount attacks against the character of non-religious people in an attempt to derail conversations, even to the point of admitting that they want to have /r/Zen shuttered, I don't understand why people are so reluctant to address the fact that people claiming to have religious convictions but actively not following them aren't religious, they are what their behavior says they are, be it trolls or sex predators.

        If you are genuinely interested in being a member of a sangha, why do you lie about your username history by routinely deleting your account and creating a new identity?

        If ozogot was genuinely interested in being a member of a sangha, then why the multiple accounts, banworthy conduct, and harassment?

        The reality is that trolls, sex predators, and other criminals use minimum relevant content as a cover for their intent. That's the whole point. Bank robbers don't go into banks with their faces uncovered and sign up for a bank account under their real name before taking hostages and robbing the bank.

        I am genuinely interested in people participating in this sangha. I don't think that people who delete accounts and then lie about it can be seen as genuine just because they spam some Zen quotes to conceal their intent.

        [–]grass_skirtacademic 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        The reality is that trolls, sex predators, and other criminals use minimum relevant content as a cover for their intent.

        Well put, very insightful.

        A lot of sociopaths are well-practiced at charming and disarming people too. Perception management seems to be a common theme here.

        [–]Sunn_Samaadh 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Lmfao

        [–]RingtailRuffian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I felt what I think you might have felt about that statement too. Or at least it slowed down how fast I was reading and I experienced a sense of knowing.

        If I ask someone to kiss me, even after enlightenment- by the time I have done it, what do I do next everyone?

        What am I feeling right now?

        [–]NegativeGPA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        And who seems to be the best at charming and disarming people? Probably most usefully done when you contact them one-by-one in one-on-one scenarios as soon as possible before they can develop a public ethos

        [–]RingtailRuffian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Thank you for being here for me, right here, right now, in only the way that you and I can.

        [–]KeyserSozen 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

        I'll just go along that way if you don't mind.

        Unfortunately, your rant has nothing to do with which rules of Reddit he violated or didn't.
        Too bad you wasted your time writing that junk.

        [–]ewk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        I think the decision tree starts with questions of sincerity, then becomes a matter of evidence.

        If you want to admit he wasn't sincere, I'll be glad to talk about the evidence behind his banning as I see it. I don't know what the mods know, but I've been paying attention to his conduct for awhile now.

        If you don't want to talk about the sincerity of people who use alt accounts to obscure persistent identity because you are doing that, then I think you aren't sincere enough to make claims about the sufficiency of evidence.

        You can't pretend to be qualified to be a judge if you've been convicted of perjury.

        [–]KeyserSozen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        My question in this thread was addressed to the moderators, who have the final say in banning somebody. You're not a moderator and had no say in this decision, so you can keep your theories and opinions to yourself. Or maybe you could post them to a blog somewhere. I'm sure they're fascinating.

        [–]ewk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        I understand that you don't come here to discuss your beliefs or your conduct, just as you once bragged on this account that you didn't come here to study Zen.

        As I said, you aren't a member of any sangha.

        [–]KeyserSozen 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        perception management, for the 10 millionth time.

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I don't know what your point is... do you have one?

        Or are you saying that you won't talk about your beliefs, but you'll complain about how other people aren't complying with your beliefs?

        [–]zenthrowaway17 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Uh... Didn't he explicitly admit that the moderators had worked with him repeatedly in the past in the hopes of improving his behavior?

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        He did change his behavior, only using one account at a time. This post doesn't say that he did anything against the rules recently. It's actually vague about what the "problems" were. He wasn't doing vote manipulation, so what's the problem?

        [–]Namtaru420np 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Boo !

        [–]TwoPines 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        So, you banned someone for thumbing his nose at the rules and introducing a little bit of healthy chaos into this "Zen" sub. Ironic, is that not? ;)

        [–]TheSolarian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Oh, you'd think they'd notice that, especially as his thumbing his nose at the rules was drawing attention to what is right in front of their face.

        [–]TheSolarian 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (14子コメント)

        You people are sincerely idiotic and have made a great mistake.

        He made seven good posts in one day, that isn't spamming, that's making the point clear.

        He's probably made the best posts consistently lately, and the overwhelming evidence he presented should have silenced all of the idiots saying Zen isn't Buddhism and you don't need to meditate, but alas.

        Look at what you fools have done.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (13子コメント)

        he's not buddhist and refuses to meditate, he doesn't believe a single thing he writes, its only to antagonise ewk i think !

        [–]TheSolarian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (12子コメント)

        His research however, has been quite good and has definitely provided ample evidence refuting many of the completely wrong claims made about Zen.

        With how much he has been reading, I have little doubt that it will have some positive benefit for him.

        As for antagonising ewk, all that has to be done to do that, is prove him wrong.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (11子コメント)

        you didn't read what i wrote and are showing very poor judgment in my view !

        [–]RingtailRuffian 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I hope for his release from suffering and the enjoyment of his eternal discovery towards that release. Right now he is reacting to this.

        I hope everyone is well right now.

        [–]drsoinso 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (20子コメント)

        Much appreciated, mods. It was a long time in coming, and the user's behavior was a huge spam stain on this subreddit.

        [–]Sunn_Samaadh 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (19子コメント)

        If that's what you took away from his being here and his posting, it looks like the compassionate efforts of most beings would be wasted on you.

        [–]drsoinso 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (18子コメント)

        I have zero interest and less than zero respect for your defense of troll and spamming behavior.

        [–]Sunn_Samaadh 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (12子コメント)

        Lmao, he was literally the best poster on the subreddit for the past few days.

        Good job mods...

        Have to take out anyone that confronts the bullshit of the troll-king ewk.

        I'm disappointed, but not even surprised.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        he is posting too much and its all just tedious crap and actually he has no interest in zen, why he does it is just beyond me, he's not right in the head at all !

        [–]Healthspinindependent 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I think it's rare that people can use borrowed words so readily to argue and shaft others.
        Where else can we simply banish the views of others with words we didn't think of ourselves? Maybe that's a start to his motives?

        [–]ewk 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (13子コメント)

        Did the mods contact reddit admins about the IP address ozogot uses? He's admitted to being the owner of accounts that reddit admins banned before based on IP, so I'm wondering if the reddit admins would be willing to take a look at how many accounts he still has.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (12子コメント)

        Not this time; we're trying to deal with it internally first and seeing how that goes.

        [–]ewk 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (11子コメント)

        I think TwoPines is one of his alt accounts. Notice the posting frequency just this morning.

        [–]TwoPines 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I'm not "one of his alt accounts." Note your posting frequency just about all the time! ;)

        [–]RingtailRuffian 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Noted, thank you.

        What am I feeling right now?

        [–]TwoPines 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Like a pine tree in the mist and freezing rain?

        No, wait, I've got it.

        Like an awning covered boat on the Yangtse River! ;)

        [–]NegativeGPA 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        Some think it's muju. I always confuse those two at first

        [–]TwoPines 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        I am looking for someone to talk about the Great Way of Zen with. Are you interested?

        Can you take the plunge off a thousand foot cliff and join the rotting bones at the bottom?

        Because so far all I hear in this sub, is the gossip of old ladies in a sewing circle. ;)

        [–]tostonotogozo 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Seems like a pretty facetious response to a loaded, basically bullshit vigilante moderation question.

        It's fine.

        I'll turn up the heat. This place is wired to blow.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        This place is wired to blow

        the sound of a fart i heard !

        [–]tostonotogozo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Stop fucking people up zaadar.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        some hope, i would if i could ! : o)

        [–]tostonotogozo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        You know who I'm talking about. I'm watching now.

        [–]zaddar17th zen patriarch 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        You know who I'm talking about

        who?

        [–]tostonotogozo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Am Machu Picchu, I heard it farted.

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (47子コメント)

        socpates and me once cybered over pm so take that as evidence of character if you will!!!!

        (I was the girl.)

        [–]drsoinso 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (35子コメント)

        Who is 'socpates'?

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (34子コメント)

        Plato gone mad

        [–]drsoinso 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (33子コメント)

        You referred to cybering with "socpates". Who is this?

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (32子コメント)

        Who are any of us?

        [–]drsoinso 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (31子コメント)

        Why are you evading my question?

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (30子コメント)

        They're gone now and I thought it'd be awk

        [–]drsoinso 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (29子コメント)

        Who's gone? What would be awkward?

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (28子コメント)

        Who are any of us...

        [–]drsoinso 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (27子コメント)

        I'm still waiting for your answer--in this thread you're referring to someone by the name of 'socpates', and I'm asking why.

        [–]Namtaru420np 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

        lmao ya u would be

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        It's true I am always receptive

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        Even with girls I'm the girl

        [–]realmaitreyabuddha 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        was this sexist

        [–]Namtaru420np 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        (:

        [–]elbowbrunchPunch Flavor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        see you on /r/wholesomememes buddy

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I LOVE THAT SUB

        [–]elbowbrunchPunch Flavor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Well I knew once he chose Tostono's name backwards it'd turn out all weird. So I injected as much /r/wholesomememes as I could! Now lets hope everything doesn't explode.

        [–]elbowbrunchPunch Flavor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        dip thread and now lookup

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        [–]indiadamjones 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        He appeared to troll me on a few occasions, and I didn't respond at those times. Seems like you took your time with this ban, and that looks like a careful way to approach something sensitive like this.

        [–]peeyoo2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        So... like... he can't post on this board forver-ever? How the hell do you enforce something like that if they're determined? grabs notepad

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        If there were a sign that the ban had been breached, we would contact the admins to get them to check IP addresses.

        [–]peeyoo2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Hmmm.

        I'm not very technical, but isn't IP identity as easy as to reset as changing email addresses?

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Dunno. We'll see how things play out, I guess.

        [–]peeyoo2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        What say the scrolls about zen masters and troublesome monks? Is there a precedent for banning? I'd think a zen man could handle every heckler in the world, no? Oh right, we don't have an official zen master here...at least I don't know who that person is.

        Who is the resident master of /r/zen?

        The mods are neutral authority. The subscribers a fruit cake with nuts. Wee!

        Makes sense I guess. Censorship always irks me though. You know? Especially when #2 in the sidebar denies the power of words.

        Any sangha worth its salt better be able to be deft in the handing of upstarts...But I guess it's not appropriate to think of this message board as a sangha. No masters needed. Banning just means go graffiti elsewhere, even though our sidebar prominently states the way is beyond symbols and words. Ha!

        I dont know.

        Banning seems reactionary and drastic.

        Why not give offenders their own thread in which all their posts appear...for a certain time limit? A normal 30 day "anchorite"- thread that they can howl from, but no other board permissions. And their thread is just as liable to get buried or stay on the front page. Just an idea.

        People have a desire to be heard and recognized, especially the confused and frustrated. To adopt their level of frustration and drastic behavior is to lose the pig wrestling contest out of emotion and not technique. Yall play your cards right and I think you'll have less bans and more earnest students here to message back and forth.

        Like I said, just an idea from one of the fruitcakes

        : D

        [–]indiadamjones 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        I still don't understand, why you guys don't put put a 24hr. post limit. More than One or Two Op's a month seems like substance abuse to me.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        One or two a month? jeez, we'd be a ghost town!

        Limiting it to three a day might help curb some of the spam attacks that occur when none of the mods are online, but it could also lead to spammers using multiple accounts, which is harder to deal with.

        [–]indiadamjones 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        That would even help today, I just took a look.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        What do you mean?

        [–]indiadamjones 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I mean that, after you suggested a 3 per day limit, I glanced the feed, and sure enough, 5 posts by a single author right next to each other.

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Ah okay. I'll talk to the other mods about it and see what they think.

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

        By, the way, (for comparison) I just got banned from r/ezn on my third or fourth comment with no warning:

        You have been banned from participating in /r/ezn. You can still view and subscribe to /r/ezn, but you won't be able to post or comment.

        Note from the moderators:

        You don't know.

        for some really innocuous comments, that are in my recent history, probably this one:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/ezn/comments/5n5gy4/enlightenment/dc8rok3/?context=3

        In other words, while mods deeply ponder over some really outrageous behavior here at r/zen, the moderating team over at r/ezn is making a joke of moderation:

        u/Namtaru420 u/tostono u/Ytumith u/majes7ic u/ozogot

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        It must be a conspiracy!

        (BTW, those accounts you listed are all me)

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        Don't get your hopes up too much. For me it was a walk in the park, stumbling on an old corpse. For people like you who rely on this kind of thing for your jollies, its the center of your life. Funny how you can put a bow tie on that at the end of the day and worship some kind of necrophilia Buddha/Jesus concept. Running up against this kind of amusement is best taken in small bites.

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        If it didn't hurt, you wouldn't be complaining here.

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        I can find an old corpse interesting enough to ponder it. Its not like I wish it was fresher or older. Its not my thing, but when it shows up, like when you show up, its one more thing to notice.

        How many times can an old corpse be recycled with new names? Kind of takes on an identity regardless, "the corpse of many names". Of course, it remains a side show.

        Corpses don't hang out in Joshu's courtyard.

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

        "I'm not bothered by being banned. I'm above it all! Me and Fido are just walking in the park, high above all you corpses, laughing as we shit."

        When you're ready to come back down to earth, look up "spiritual bypassing". For you, it's peculiarly mixed with a half-baked "beat zen" and a persecution complex.

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        I am totally willing to address how religious believers attempt to marginalize the zen characters with stereotypical efforts and labels: hagiography, iconoclasm, etc. while dredging up doctrine and practices that they hope will offer some kind of solace or salvation.

        Weasels on the other hand can be recognized by their dodgy tricks, including trying to change the subject. Do you really think there is a place besides r/ezn where you won't be exposed?

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        😂😂😂

        You're not a "zen character." If you feel marginalized, that's a far cry from strolling through the park with Lassie. Does she do the shitting, while you hold it in to fester....say, on /r/conspiracy?

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The fruits show what kind of tree we have. I have seen how the zen characters talk. What I see you doing here is something else, something else I have also seen. Give a man some rope.....

        Really, nothing more needs to be shown.

        [–]royal_fucktardghetto preacher 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Shoulda banned them both. Yin and yang.

        [–]tostonotogozo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

        Nice screenshot. Still don't see evidence of vote manipulation.

        [–]KeyserSozen 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        Yeah. /u/temicco, that screenshot doesn't demonstrate that he broke any rules recently, so why the ban?

        Also, nice job doxxing someone in your screenshot. 🙄

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Totally didn't notice that, thanks for pointing that out. Sincere apologies.

        [–]KeyserSozen 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        that screenshot doesn't demonstrate that he broke any rules recently, so why the ban now?

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I'll answer this in my forthcoming reply to your parent comment.

        [–]theksepyro>mfw I have no face 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The doxxing is a good point and i'm gonna remove the post until it gets fixed.

        edit: fix'd

        [–]rockytimberWei 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

        We might have offered him some method of atonement for any transgressions. After all, he made some excellent posts:

        https://www.reddit.com/r/zen/comments/5mmycs/dongshans_dharma_heir/

        One more thing, I wonder what kind of consensus the community has regarding this particular banning, support or not, do you have a sense of that?

        Finally, is this a temporary ban with warning, or is this a permanent and final ban?

        Oh, yeah, and if he comes back under yet another name, what then? Do we have a procedure or a plan, perhaps a welcome basket? (Sorry, I do not envy you your job)

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

        One more thing, I wonder what kind of consensus the community has regarding this particular banning, support or not, do you have a sense of that?

        I have a sense that there are some things we need to define more explicitly (such as "spamming" and "trolling"), as we find out every time we do something we haven't done since starting the whole policy page thing. There is a decent amount of anger (rightfully I think) but I'm hoping that people will realize that the mods don't consider blaming ewk to be a valid excuse for laxer moderation of someone's own rule-breaking behaviour (as per the last moderation attitude on the policy page).

        Finally, is this a temporary ban with warning, or is this a permanent and final ban?

        It is currently an indefinite ban; we did not discuss whether it is final. We are currently trying to figure out the conditions under which he spams and trolls the forum -- there's certainly no point to reinviting him so long as he would behave the same way as before. On the other hand, if he only posted and commented as he did on a good day, then he would easily be one of the best commenters contributors on the sub and we don't want to miss out on that because of our own failure to get to the bottom of his actions. So we're still talking about it, both with him and amongst ourselves.

        Oh, yeah, and if he comes back under yet another name, what then? Do we have a procedure or a plan, perhaps a welcome basket?

        We discussed this and decided that we would contact the admins for an IP ban if this occurred. If he's coming back at all, it would be because we identified a root "cause" for his rule-breaking and deemed it reasonable to address. That is how things stand currently.

        [–]NegativeGPA 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Ever see a kid who turns from asshole to angel whenever they think the teacher is gonna call their parents?

        [–]ewk 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

        But how would you know that he was back?

        I mean, wasn't he the top voted poster of 2016? And if he hadn't admitted it, would you have taken action necessarily?

        And wasn't his coming back as the 2016 set of alts a circumvention on the ban of his 2015 set of alts?

        [–]Temiccochán[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        But how would you know that he was back?

        That is, assuming he admitted it.

        And if he hadn't admitted it, would you have taken action necessarily?

        Not like this most likely; it would be amiss to ban someone for breaking side-wide rules if we had no real evidence thereof.

        And wasn't his coming back as the 2016 set of alts a circumvention on the ban of his 2015 set of alts?

        I don't know the details of the 2015 ban; /u/theksepyro might be able to answer.

        [–]theksepyro>mfw I have no face 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        And wasn't his coming back as the 2016 set of alts a circumvention on the ban of his 2015 set of alts?

        Here's the story.

        He was originally banned when he was spamming fake "ama" posts with multiple accounts, such that it was the only thing you could see while looking at /r/zen without scrolling through a couple pages. For this I gave him a 30 day ban. After that he used alts to circumvent the ban, and the admins went on the hunt (also at this time it came out that he was sharing at least one account [chopwater] with keysersozen, and I'm pretty sure they were using bots to change the wiki, but that's only relevant tangentially). Anway, after a couple months of christmind not being able to participate, he messaged me asking to please come back. I said I'd let it happen, if he agreed to live out his original 30 day ban, and to cool it with the trolling behavior. He agreed to these terms, and held to it (at least for a while).

        [–]ewk -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Say what you will about /r/catfanciers, I doubt they have the kind of dhrama that characterizes /r/Zenfanciers.

        [–]NegativeGPA 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        We made a facebook group chat called Boddhidrama

        Gonna turn it into Boddhidhrama now

        Double jeopardy