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[–]DanglyW[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (0子コメント)

So, again, this is not a sub to discuss economic theory. Take your slap fights regarding economic theory elsewhere. I'm locking this thread for now, and you can all resume these conversations in subs more appropriate for arguing the pros/cons of different economic schools of thought elsewhere.

EDIT: OH lawd this is still going on. To be clear - we are not a sub for discussing economic theory. If you want to discuss economic theory, continue doing so in the various subs dedicated to it.

And you know what especially won't fly? Calls to violence, against anyone. Period. End of fucking discussion. Post a call to violence in this sub, you will get banned, and I don't care who you call an ally.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 167 ポイント168 ポイント  (45子コメント)

obligatory plug for /r/enoughcommiespam

Why would you plug a subreddit that routinely gets linked to /r/badpolitics for constantly being bad at politics?

[–]SlavophilesAnonymous 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's because BadPolitics is full of commies.

[–]Br00ce[S] -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (42子コメント)

afaik there was 1 bad politics thread a month ago about us. Anyways that sub is more opinion based as its less academic than /r/badhistory and what not and its user base is mostly commies so lets not pretend that place isnt biased

https://www.reddit.com/r/badpolitics/comments/4j3gaa/is_everyone_here_a_socialist/

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (41子コメント)

If someone's going to post a thread "is everyone here communist" then you bet your going to get exaggerated and joking responses. There are even threads in /r/badhistory that have joking and fun responses. /r/badpolitics is not a commie sub.

Regardless, it's lame of you to plug a subreddit routinely posted by Trump supporters over here. How did you even become a mod of AHS?

[–]optimalg 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Admittedly a very large part of /r/badpolitics is leftist in nature. Posts against liberals and rightists are more common than those against leftists, and criticism of it leads to drama at times. It's something we're trying to mitigate a bit.

[–]Br00ce[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (37子コメント)

we had a /r/badpolitics mod come to us asking for us to put their sub on our sidebar bc he wanted more balanced discussion.

it's lame of you to plug a subreddit routinely posted by Trump supporters over here.

k

our sidebar states

All are welcome for the most part, but we kindly ask alt-righters and the like (this includes posters from /r/the_donald) to fuck off.

our ban list - http://prntscr.com/dtjc68

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (36子コメント)

Okay, so you ban alt righters there, but that doesn't suddenly making plugging /r/enoughcommiespam okay. Those are two separate actions.

[–]Br00ce[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (35子コメント)

this subreddit is against hateful subreddits that that includes commie ones like /r/leftwithsharpedge. Commies routinely advocated genocide and hate so yeah they are not separate.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (31子コメント)

LWSE is banned.

Looks to me like you're just some anti-communist claiming we advocate genocide. Were you given permission to make this stickied thread to plug another subreddit you mod?

[–]Br00ce[S] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (23子コメント)

the fact LWSE is banned proves my point. If it wasn't a hateful sub advocating violence then it wouldnt have been banned.

if you dont think commies advocate genocide you must not hang out in any commie subs. up against the wall/kuluks deserved it/etc are common phrases used to advocated the death of people who disagree with them.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Joking about kulaks is not the same as advocating genocide. Looks to me like you can't tell the difference between being facetious and being serious.

Funny how you won't answer the question about posting this sticky. Here's what I think happened. You saw my post here linking to /r/Enough_Sanders_Spam, got angry about it, and made this sticky.

[–]Br00ce[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (21子コメント)

I dont stalk you or /r/Enough_Sanders_Spam so no I didnt see your post.

Another mod brought the idea and I offered to make a post about it.

[–]SlavophilesAnonymous 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Communists often advocate mass killings of the bourgeoisie, and many also meme about killing kulaks, which was a genocide(Holodomor).

[–]VicAceR 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (4子コメント)

also meme about killing kulaks, which was a genocide(Holodomor).

Am I a commie if I link you to /r/badhistory?

Because this is pretty bad history...

[–]barbadosslim 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Genocide? What? And by hate, do you mean hate for capitalism and exploiters? That's up there with complaining that AHS is bigoted against bigots.

[–]Sadist_Libertine -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regardless, it's lame of you to plug a subreddit routinely posted by Trump supporters over here. How did you even become a mod of AHS?

Do you have proof behind that or is it just baseless slander? Trump supporters are banned

[–]LeftRat 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (20子コメント)

This "friendly advice" is somewhat hollow coming from you.

[–]Br00ce[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (10子コメント)

its not friendly advice. Shape up or get banned

[–]LeftRat 93 ポイント94 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Okay, then this unfriendly reminder is extremely hollow coming from someone who honestly skirts the boundaries of getting featured here himself sometimes, what with your constant attempts at provocation whenever someone disagrees with you and your bragging about your mod-position.

[–]Br00ce[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

lmao ok bud

[–]LeftRat 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (2子コメント)

A mature response, totally what a mod should do when faced with criticism.

[–]Br00ce[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

what criticism? You are just shouting baseless ad hominems at me

[–]chickenoflight 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Aight, deliver to me a ban

[–]Br00ce[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

you need to break the rules first

[–]Kinnasty 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good, Im sure many mods lack integrity

[–]DubTeeDub -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

To be fair it was my suggestion to post something on it last night.

https://imgur.com/a/CCzIG

I think it's counter productive to the subreddit for us to point out violent rhetoric by fascists and then have communists come here and start a circlejerk using violent rhetoric as well.

I've been removing comments calling for violence and sending warnings to users when I see it of late, but thought it would be more appropriate to have a sticky on the sub and take a more hard line stance since it could potentially discredit us.

[–]LeftRat 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Oh, I have no problem with the concept and I think the reminder itself is important.

I just think it's coming from the wrong person. But I get it, I may be biased considering his provocations aimed at me.

[–]DubTeeDub -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Thanks for understanding

[–]GunMunky 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You couldn't have chosen a worse person to make this announcement, their biased position as a mod of r/EnoughCommieSpam is absolutely clear.

Allowing a plug for that subreddit to remain in the sticky makes this error in judgement appear even worse.

Brooce wants to go around telling people to "shape up." Shape yourselves up for fuck's sake, this makes you look like utter prats.

Edit: The plug for a terrible subreddit was removed from the sticky. It now just bans all "communist rhetoric" instead so I wouldn't really say it's an improvement.

[–]DubTeeDub -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

You couldn't have chosen a worse person to make this announcement, their biased position as a mod of r/EnoughCommieSpam is absolutely clear.

I didn't know he modded there nor any of his history. He offered to put something up so it sounded good to me.

Allowing a plug for that subreddit to remain in the sticky makes this error in judgement appear even worse.

It's not what I would have done, but I think the general point still stands.

[–]GunMunky 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your failure to decry the biased position of your chosen mod and the obvious, glaring bias and self-promotion inherent in the plug for his subreddit isn't helping your case at all.

Your failure to check into who it was you were allowing to speak for you is your fault.

Edit: The sticky no longer plugs the subreddit in question. Instead it goes further by apparently banning all "communist rhetoric." So that's fun.

[–]DubTeeDub -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your failure to decry the biased position of your chosen mod

Airing grievances with other moderators in public is bad practice and unprofessional.

[–]GunMunky 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

unprofessional.

Oh I'm sorry. I didn't realise I was the public face of a subreddit, and not just some random commenter on the internet.

Oh wait...

Regardless, encouraging shady backroom handling of very public messes your modteam made is just laughable at this point. Yeah I missed the point. Guilty as charged.

Anyway, defending the poor decisions made here with "I didn't look into the guy we're choosing as spokesperson" doesn't really cut it.

[–]DanglyW -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Then I'll chime in as another mod here - we are not a communist sub. This is not a sub to discuss political theory. This is not the first time we've had this circus, and we don't like that we have to have it again.

[–]100dylan99 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (6子コメント)

There is no such thing as a peaceful ideology. Tolerating bigotry is no different than promoting bigotry.

[–]FALGSC_IN_MY_ASSROID 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uhh, Comrade Gandhi would like a word with you.

[–]ignoculture 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is wrong in many ways. What do you think about ideas of Tolstoy? Or Gandhi?

[–]Br00ce[S] -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

idc what you believe is the best way to handle things but on this sub you cant be violent.

[–]wak90 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What does the against mean in againsthatesubreddits?

[–]Photo_Evangelist 48 ポイント49 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Peaceful protests! And if those don't work, oh well we tried. I'm sure the bigots will just stop being bigoted someday.

[–]DubTeeDub -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

all we are trying to say is that violent rhetoric, even aimed at fascists, is not allowed here

[–]GunMunky 80 ポイント81 ポイント  (15子コメント)

Edit 2: So after getting removed and replaced the sticky post no longer plugs his commie-hating subreddit but does now contain this little gem:

you need to keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub.

Care to elaborate on that, commie hater? Is there any sort of socialist rhetoric allowed here or is it only calls to violence that you're cracking down on?

Edit 4: So as of now this sticky is hovering at ~50% upvotes with over 400 votes in total. I think it's safe to say that a good portion of this sub's users:

  1. Have a problem with this new policy.
  2. Require detailed clarification of just what "keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub" actually means in this context.

Are we going to be banned for espousing communist points of view? Are our perspectives no longer welcome here if they are overtly socialist? At what point does this new policy become a satire? (Ok that last one is obviously not serious but hopefully goes some way towards communicating my utter incredulity at the content of the sticky.)

[Original Comment] Wow, way to plug your trash subreddit in a completely contrived and pathetically self-interested fashion.

What a terrible waste of a sticky. I had such a deep respect for this sub and the way it was moderated.

HAD.

Edit: I feel I have to point out that equating hatred of minorities with hatred of fascists is fucking ridiculous. Nobody chooses to be trans, a POC, disabled or anything else like that. Every fascist makes a choice every day to be what they are, to believe the foul things that fill their minds. This false equivalency is a massive black hole in the liberal mindset, sort it the fuck out.

[Edit 3] Sometimes I can't spell.

[–]byurk 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Yeah this is a shit decision seeing as a ton of socialists are active here. Fuck this.

[–]DubTeeDub -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Socialists / communists are welcome to post here. We just want to be clear that violent rhetoric, no matter who it is directed to, isn't allowed.

We dont like fascists. However, when people point out violent rhetoric by fascists and respond by calling for fascists to be strung up, it goes against the purpose of this sub and discredits us.

[–]ParagonRenegade 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (7子コメント)

you need to keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub.

Yeah, we're welcome so long as we hide our political affiliations.

thanks mate

I'm fine with the "no violent rhetoric" rule since that's basically just Reddit's rule in general, but maybe try to be a little less biased.

[–]GunMunky 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm staggered that adding "keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub" in the re-write was seen as an improvement upon plugging that crappy sub I will not name and banning violent speech with communist flavourings to it.

Banning violent speech? Yeah ok that's understandable.

Plugging your anti-commie hate sub and conflating all communists with shitposters? Bafflingly disharmonious and also just gross.

Banning "communist rhetoric" in its entirety?! Seriously now, what the fuck is even happening here?

[–]ParagonRenegade 49 ポイント50 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Didn't you hear? Class isn't a problem any more! :D

But really it's Br00ce trying to remove socialist discussion under the guise of moderation, and the other mods not noticing (or caring about) his biases and agenda he has explicitly laid out before.

A bit of a miscalculation on their part.

[–]GunMunky 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's turning into a top-to-bottom shitshow and if it wasn't in a subreddit I actually care about I'd be up to my ears in popcorn already.

As it is I think this sub is important and I believe socialist perspectives to be of vital importance to the future of not just AHS, but Reddit and literally every other human endeavour.

So I guess now I'll have to be banned for spouting communist rhetoric which I should "keep out" of the sub.

[–]Photo_Evangelist 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You hit the nail the head perfectly. This sub is important, and one of the few I care about. Just ban violent comments. Banning all retoric of a political view is some /r/conservative shit.

[–]DubTeeDub 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

you need to keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub.

I never said that though. If you want to have a civil conversation again communism, go for it, I really dont care.

We just dont want violent "string up the fascists," "backs against the wall," "to the gulags," "bash the fash" comments here. Theres plenty of communist jerk subs for that.

[–]ParagonRenegade 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I like your proposed rule.

But the OP literally says

Communist are welcome to come and discuss hate subreddits but you need to keep your communist rhetoric out of the sub.

Which would establish a double-standard, since liberal rhetoric and interpretations are accepted without reservation.

So which is it; no violent talk or no rhetoric?

[–]GunMunky 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Have you read the new 'improved' version of the sticky or not?

Do you guys communicate with one another at all before making sweeping changes to subreddit policy and posting them in stickies?

[–]byurk 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's reasonable. But when the mods post a sticky thread about how this isn't a communist subreddit (fine) and plugs a subreddit dedicated to comparing anti-fascists to fascists, that goes beyond just wanting us to not post violent things. It's an attack on the ideology and a direct message that we're not welcome.

[–]DubTeeDub 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Brooce has edited the OP to remove that language.

[–]GunMunky 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And now all "communist rhetoric" is to be kept out of the sub.

That's so much better. Do I need to /s here? I think I need to /s here.

[–]ParagonRenegade 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And changed it to a blanket ban on communist rhetoric :P

[–]Ilbsll 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What the hell is "communist rhetoric" supposed to mean? Should we not discuss the class antagonisms related to hateful subreddits? Is liberal ideology the only acceptable lens through which we analyze them?

[–]DubTeeDub -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

We dont want violent "string up the fascists," "backs against the wall," "to the gulags," "bash the fash" comments here. Theres plenty of communist jerk subs for that.

It's counter productive to the subreddit for us to point out violent rhetoric by fascists and then have communists come here and start a circlejerk using violent rhetoric as well.

[–]Ilbsll 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't disagree with that at all, but considering the author of the post, I have a feeling they aren't solely referring to violent comments. Also, the implication that all communist rhetoric is violent is appalling.

It's remarkable that, of all the mods, they were the one to give the message.

[–]Z3IRO 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I had no clue "bash the fash" was a call to violence, any more than a political defeat was a defeat in combat. I thought it was more of a rallying call against fascism rather than a call to physically attack those vile people. I've never used it, though I will not deny I have upvoted it.

That being said, I think we could do with some leftist political discussion (though not as the sub's main purpose; that will always be to be against subreddits for hate) given that the vast majority of subreddits we look at are far-right. I may not agree with revolutionary or any communism as an ideology (sweats nervously) but hey, they could help keep the Alt-Right hordes from invading the sub.

[–]FALGSC_IN_MY_ASSROID 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's how I take it, as well, and I'm a pretty ardent lefty who frequents FC an LSC, mostly because they're one of the few places where you can actually get decent leftist humor—both dark and light. Note that for every "Kulaks deserved it" you get a "FULLY AUTOMATED LUXURY GAY SPACE COMMUNISM is inevitable."

Nonviolence is a proven strategy for overcoming state power. No reason to abandon it, especially not at the outset of the conflict. If it actually gets to the point where the alt-right goes full Nazi, maaaaybe we can talk about bashing fash in a more literal sense, but for the time being I see it as being more about effective counterprotest, agitation, and calling-out of the far right in action.

[–]DubTeeDub 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

that is my position as well

[–]Br00ce[S] -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

you are welcome to go to other subreddits for that type of discussion

[–]GunMunky 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you are welcome to go to other subreddits

Oh well, thank you so much. Ugh, your smuggery is foul.

Anyway, onto the point in question.

There seems to be some prevailing attitude around here all of a sudden that somehow class oppression is not bound as tightly as possible to all other kinds of bigotry.

Any claims that discussions of socialism with regard to bigotry and oppression are somehow off-topic are absolutely ridiculous. Socialists recognise that all kinds of bigotry extend from the inequality of class, and are extensions of the ruling-class's reach into our daily lives, pushing one another into hatred of those different from us instead of the capitalist class holding a gun to the world's head.

I know you hate commies mate, and that's ok. We don't like you much either. You know what we hate though? Bone-headed liberals trying to separate bigotry from class struggle as if one is not engendered by the other.

[Edit] Grammar because horseshoe theory says I'm just like a fucking Nazi right? So now I'm a Grammar Nazi.

[–]Z3IRO 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I gotcha, I can see why "bash the fash" could be inflammatory. Like I said, I'm not a communist nor much more left-of-center than your average speaker of English, and this sub is for opposing hate subreddits, so I wasn't going to try discussing communism in AHS anyway.

[–]Artip2 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you have any questions or concern leave them in the thread

Why would you say that if you're just deleting comments as soon as they're posted?

[–]Br00ce[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have an automatic filtering so unless you have a long history here you are going to get filtered.

The comments that are still removed is 1 account that was just created to start drama in a thread and a drama mod shitposting.

[–]nate 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is Socialist subreddit, comrade?

[–]Br00ce[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

no, n8

[–]nate 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

<sigh> it's like I can't spam anything anymore.

[–]Computer_Name 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Thank you!

It's absurd that people come here posting about the violent, hateful content on the site, while themselves pushing violent, hateful rhetoric.

[–]Deefian 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yeah, the sheer amount of edge was starting to become unbearable.
Nothing wrong with them being communists, but they should learn to keep the edgelord/tankie shit in those totes ironic """""circlejerk""""" subs.

EDIT: Hmmm, sure smells like brigade in here.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (6子コメント)

ironic """""circlejerk""""" subs.

so, /r/enoughcommiespam?

[–]Deefian -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

so, /r/enoughcommiespam?

Except that's a callout sub, not an edgy circlejerk sub. Unlike FullCommunism, where you've posted.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So callout subs can't be circlejerky?

[–]Deefian -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can be, but not all of them are.

Debate is even encouraged in ECS, as long as everyone involved plays nice.

[–]LeftRat 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wow, really?

"You once posted to this sub, so your argument has to be wrong"?

[–]ignoculture -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a thing to say about this. Feel free to downvote me to hell. I am a frequenter in this subreddit and love this community. I also am leftist, I have socialist sentiments. But I was always irritated by "bash the fash" rhetoric. Once I said that "you debate ideas, not smash them" replying to a comment saying "you smash fascism, don't debate it" and was downvoted to hell. I was repeatedly told by this community that fascism manifests killing other ideologies, and therefore you cannot debate with it and it deserves only to be smashed. I pointed out that this is such an arbitrary distinction. You either have freedom of speech -- in which case fascists have their rights to state whatever asshole opinion they have -- or you don't have freedom of speech -- in which case almost every single opinion will have some tendency to kill other opinions. This is simply hate against hate. Neither it is our purpose to spread hatred against fascism, nor is this a useful strategy to fight against fascism.

Anyway, after that incident I never brought that up again, but today, seeing this thread makes me very happy. I think it's better for our community to be more neutral in this way. I see that some of you are unhappy but consider that this sub has a very important mission to criticize reddit's rhetoric for being hateful. We should not be "that communist sub" but be the sub where people discuss reddit's rhetoric.