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U.S. intelligence agencies: Putin ordered intervention in presidential election (washingtonpost.com)

yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative が 投稿 - announcement

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[–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S,M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (7子コメント)

Here is the full report. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

/u/eddiebruceandpaul has an excellent summary here.

edit: Just want to plug this real quick - turn on the nightly news programs tonight on major news networks starting at 7pm EST. Any of them with a specific host. They will be covering this extensively along with the shooting that happened today.

[–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 179 ポイント180 ポイント  (98子コメント)

This is breaking news.

Honestly, there is nothing for me to even highlight that would be more important than the rest but this seems to be super important:

The report depicts Russian interference as unprecedented in scale, saying that Moscow’s assault represented “a significant escalation in directness, level of activity, and scope of effort” beyond previous election-related espionage.

Seriously. Read the entire thing.

Here is your evidence Trump supporters. Here you go. Get that spin going QUICK but don't get too dizzy and puke.

[–]InfoSecs 105 ポイント106 ポイント  (66子コメント)

An acquataince of mine - a verteran of the intelligence community - pointed out to me several years ago that it was a mistake to believe that the cold war ever ended. It merely mutated.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to The Code War.

[–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (41子コメント)

I've always believed that too because after the fall of the Soviet Union all of the KGB gangsters/thugs had so much power over everyone they began their power grabs with the billionaires creating an insane oligarchy. Putin was obviously the main one since he was the head of the KGB. People should have seen this coming from miles away.

[–]InfoSecs 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (40子コメント)

Essentially it was a KGB coup over democracy. In such a way, the skewed communist system of power could be extended under the guise of being 'capitalist' and 'nationalist'. The current Russian system is neither of these things, and has been exposed as such through the drop in oil prices, and subsequent failure of narrative. That is why there has been, in true KGB style, this readjustment over the last few years - and an externalisation of problems.

Edit: And I believe it's important to add, people should not equate all of Russia with the actors at the helm. Russia has a deeply intellectual and fascinating culture - much to offer the world. It is in the interests of the Russian citizen to solve these problems, and it is for them to do that. However, when these internal games start to spill out and affect others, action must be taken to prevent this.

[–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Agreed. This is something completely random (but interesting) but check out these coordinates: https://www.google.com/maps/@44.425886,38.2024049,3450m/data=!3m1!1e3

This is rumored to be Putin's new compound on the Black Sea.

Here is some info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putin's_Palace

Aerial shot.

He denies it is his but everyone knows it. Used with money stolen from his country. Costs ~$1b.

They are just thugs robbing their country blind plain and simple.

Compound looks like something out of a Tom Clancy novel with all of the heli pads and winding roads through the deep forest.

[–]InfoSecs 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Indeed. I only have one helicopter pad at my secret base, and I built it myself. Also, I have a teepee, not a palace.

What it must be like to be a communist spy!

[–]KilgraveTrout 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

That is one serious dacha.

[–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Babushka Melania is pleased.

[–]Healtron 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (14子コメント)

To be fair, current Russia is not communist. It's a nationalistic authoritarian regime. So basically a worse URSS without any ideological pretense or principle.

[–]InfoSecs 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I take your point, but I suppose what I'm trying to say is that it's essentially identical to what it was before the supposed curtain got pulled to the side. The ideology was always a smokescreen.

[–]Healtron 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But at least some people believed in the smokescreen and the URSS payed lip service to it. Putin doesn't even manages that.

[–]witchwind 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

nationalistic authoritarian

You mean fascist. That's pretty much the definition of fascist.

[–]RAKtheUndead 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, you have to add palingenesis to that as well, but Putin's approach includes that too.

[–]pdrocker1Alt-Right? Did you mean Neo-Fascism? 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fascism is on a whole other level. Putin isn't quite there yet

[–]witchwind 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Putin is pretty much on the level of pre-Hitler Mussolini, the original fascist.

[–]Healtron 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, but some people cry when you use that word and I prefer to save it for Cheeto Benito.

[–]witchwind 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People cry, yes, but Putin is pretty much a more competent version of Mussolini.

コメントをもっと表示する (6 返事)

    [–]-poop-in-the-soup- 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, that's the thing I think is lost. By and large, Russians are pretty cool, with a rich and noble history. Nobody dislikes the Russian people. We don't like the government.

    [–]tom641I voted! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Absolutely. It's not all of Russia, it's just a powerful group that's in Russia.

    コメントをもっと表示する (15 返事)

      [–]Seventytvvo 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (18子コメント)

      It's crystal clear now, even to the general population that we're still very much in the Cold War.

      We just lost a proxy war. I hope Trump changes his tune. I really, really fucking hope he comes to his senses.

      [–]the_dummkopf 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

      We just lost a proxy war. I hope Trump changes his tune. I really, really fucking hope he comes to his senses.

      I'm not holding my breath. The only way we're going to win is if we give the useful idiot the boot.

      [–]AutoModerator[M] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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      [–]peteftw 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Come to his senses? That'd surely set a precedent.

      [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]Seventytvvo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

        reported

        [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Here they come...

        [–]Seventytvvo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

        lol turns out that was someone who I work with who was messing with me...

        コメントをもっと表示する (11 返事)

          [–]helkar 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Incidentally, "the code war" is how you would say "the cold war" if you had a cold.

          [–]EndlessCompassion 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Or a very short tongue. You wouldn't be saying this to your wife of course.

          [–]Cypermethrino 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          "The Code War"

          Which coincidentally sounds like you are trying to say "The Cold War" while suffering from a cold.

          [–]memmett9 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The other one I've heard people say is that the Cold War never ended, it just got so cold that we forgot about it.

          コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

            [–]MrDickford 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (16子コメント)

            I jumped on a couple default news subreddits and sorted by new (huge mistake) just to get a sense of how the pro-Trump camp is responding to the news, and it's about how I expected. Because the FBI, CIA, and NSA did not declassify their sources and methodology, hold our hands, and walk us through how they came to these conclusions, they're comfortable dismissing it as fake. It sort of supports my theory that there is literally no amount of evidence that will convince these guys to come back to reality.

            [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (7子コメント)

            It sort of supports my theory that there is literally no amount of evidence that will convince these guys to come back to reality.

            Putin could come out and make a televised statement saying he directly ordered his goons to do this because he wanted Trump to win and they would say that it was either a Putin imposter or extremely edited and he didn't really say that.

            [–]Kalel2319 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Or they cheer for him.

            [–]knuggles_da_empanada 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That makes him smart!

            [–]Cypermethrino 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Putin hates liberals so they love Putin. Simple.

            [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            They love Putin because he is "strong" and "white" and "hate Muslims" and "a piece of shit dictator thug."

            [–]ZZW30 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Hell the Russians already said that they were contact with the Trump campaign before the election.

            [–]snookums 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yep. After he denied it during the debates. We already know he's lied about having connections to Russia.

            [–]EndlessCompassion 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            Boot camp will.

            [–]bgal81 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Will they have time for boot camp before sending them off to "liberate" Estonia for Putin?

            [–]EndlessCompassion 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Give them an hour or two to learn how to shoot a rife and send them on their way. Tell them it's just like a video game.

            [–]InfoSecs 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I believe that desertion rates in the Russian army are so high, that it is practically accepted that young officers will rarely actually turn up to their units after training.

            Again, the Russian army is a highly professional entity, yet the system fails them, much like it fails a lot of Russians. As it has done for many decades.

            [–]InfoSecs 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            It's a mistaken strategy to try and attempt to convince anyone of something that they don't want to believe. The ultimate aim should be on persuading Mr Trump on what the right course of action is.

            I don't believe this would be difficult. Simply, when he does something right, he needs to be congratulated by as many people as possible, so he keeps doing things right.

            [–]dweaver33 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Like teaching a child. "That's a good Trump! Yay!"

            Just make sure someone changes his diaper often so he doesn't get a rash.

            [–]witchwind 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This is because Trump supporters are much more vile people than Trump himself.

            [–]vorpib 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You're right, no amount of evidence will change a damn thing.

            I was talking with a co-worker today a out this and asked him what he thought about the Russians and this news.

            The response was "you gotta be kidding me! This is what they want you to believe, it's all bullshit!"

            [–]PARKS_AND_TREK 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            The major points. Spread this far and wide

            credit

            [–]memmett9 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            INB4 "The NSA only has moderate confidence, it can't be true"

            [–]gatemansgc 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (8子コメント)

            they're going to spin it! "BUT THEY WERE WRONG WITH THE WMD!!!"

            of course to them, one mistake in the past means they are wrong forever, at least if they're saying something that goes against the narrative.

            [–]ricotehemo 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (4子コメント)

            And didn't it turn out the CIA said it was highly unlikely there were WMDs?

            [–]gatemansgc 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

            so they weren't all in agreement back then?

            [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Bush's special little personal intel team was behind it. That is why Trump nominating a bunch of unqualified yes-men to all of the intelligence communities is so fucking scary.

            [–]RAATL 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yup, Cheney started the Iraq war

            [–]gatemansgc 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            ...i hope this country survives the next four years...

            [–]barthes2009 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Actually CIA did report that there were no wmd's, Cheney suppressed the reports.

            [–]gatemansgc 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

            which makes the fact that there is UNANIMOUS AGREEMENT here even more telling.

            didn't know all that. i was 11 years old at the time, wasn't really following things.

            [–]peekay427 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I can't wait to see all the nothing that comes from this.

            コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

              [–]eddiebruceandpaul 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (19子コメント)

              From the report:

              • We assess with high confidence that Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election, the consistent goals of which were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency.

              • We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump.

              • When it appeared to Moscow that Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the Russian influence campaign then focused on undermining her expected presidency.

              • We also assess Putin and the Russian Government aspired to help President-elect Trump’s election chances when possible by discrediting Secretary Clinton and publicly contrasting her unfavorably to him.

              • Putin most likely wanted to discredit Secretary Clinton because he has publicly blamed her since 2011 for inciting mass protests against his regime in late 2011 and early 2012

              • We assess Putin, his advisers, and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump over Secretary Clinton.

              • We assess that influence campaigns are approved at the highest levels of the Russian Government—particularly those that would be politically sensitive.

              • We assess with high confidence that the GRU used the Guccifer 2.0 persona, DCLeaks.com, and WikiLeaks to release US victim data obtained in cyber operations

              [–]spectrosoldier 42 ポイント43 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Well... This is nauseating but I can't say I'm surprised.

              [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Excellent summary.

              [–]eddiebruceandpaul 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              Be sure to check out appendix A of the report, which is a detailed blow by blow of how RT is controlled by Putin and operates as the official (but tacitly covert) propaganda arm of his "government" in the US. RT now has a direct connection deep inside the Trumputin administration via Gen. Flynn.

              [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              This tweet is pretty interesting: https://twitter.com/chessninja/status/817183438436499456

              Mig Greengard ‏@chessninja Mig Greengard Retweeted Donald J. Trump It's handy that you can get most of Trump's tweets a day in advance by browsing the Kremlin-friendly Russian web. True during campaign, too.

              [–]Kalel2319 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Good to see that all the attention we paid to the right sources is being validated by this report.

              So fucking sad that they got what they wanted though. Goddamn it. I thought we were better than this.

              [–]ricotehemo 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Even worse than this, to me, is that they still won't believe it or, if they do, they won't care.

              [–]Whateverittakes1 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

              So far their talking points are:

              These are the agencies that have continuously lied to the American people. Fake news No evidence, nothing new It's no big deal, It doesn't change what was information was released. (Evil evil Hillary)

              We or an online political action group should develop brief counter points to each of these.

              Sorry for posting their talking points here, I often come here so I don't have to read their shilling. I just think this is to important to let the propaganda gaslight these revelations.

              [–]ricotehemo 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              No I'm glad you did, this is important. I'm on my phone right now but when I'm on a pc I'll try to help with counters

              [–]Witty-username8194I voted! 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Fantastic summary of findings.

              [–]summerlingWeird & Tragic Trump Campaign 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

              When it appeared to Moscow that Secretary Clinton was likely to win the election, the Russian influence campaign then focused on undermining her expected presidency.

              This is bad in that they were pretty fucking effective even while apparently side-tracked. Imagine their focus, enthusiasm, and ability on futures elections when 1/3 of the public doesn't even believe or care. The kgb is the single most powerful & destructive super-pac, by far.

              コメントをもっと表示する (9 返事)

                [–]indianadave 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                Sorry for the following caps, but the narrative needs to change.

                WE JUST LOST A WAR TO THE RUSSIANS. AND THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO FIRE A WEAPON.

                HEY TRUMPETTES! REMEMBER HOW WE WERE SUPPOSED TO GET TIRED OF WINNING!?!

                WHAT'S THE POLAR OPPOSITE OF WINNING?

                LOSING A FUCKING WAR!!! WE JUST LOST A FUCKING WAR TO THE RUSSIANS.

                MAGA!!!!

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                Hard to win a war you don't yet know you're fighting.

                Obama kept thinking we weren't in a cold war. But we've always been in one.

                Obama needs to clean up this mess. And the Republican senators need to help tidy up.

                Everyone needs to start calling and writing letters to their senators expressing their concerns (especially Republicans).

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Well he ejected 35(?) Russian operatives and started slapping down more sanctions.

                Question is what will Trump do? Immediately bring them back? Lift the sanctions? Putin didn't eject our operatives in Russia because he is waiting to see what Trump is going to do when he steps in.

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Trump won't do anything he's a puppet.

                It's up to Obama to remember his idol Abe. Otherwise he is a fraction of what Abe was.

                [–]AutoModerator[M] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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                [–]indianadave 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                To think we didn't know that Russia (or any enemy/ally) was trying to hack us is utterly false.

                We are the same country (EDITED FROM COMPANY) who tapped Angela Merkel's phones. We know this is going on.

                Some other slight corrections -

                1. Obama can't do shit. He's trying, but it's hard when the guy you effectively share the office with is trying to go 180 degrees in the opposite direction. He cannot do anything of value in the next 14 days.

                2. Obama knew we were in a Cold War, and I'd argue that's why he stayed out of proxy wars in Syria. Obama is the bad guy in this scenario, but given the last 30 years of US intervention, it's the right decision.

                3. You're right about calling and writing letters. But more so than concerns, we need the Republicans in power to grow a backbone and claim the very clear moral highground against Trump on this issue.

                McCain and Graham have tried, only to shrink from the spotlight from presumed party pressure.

                [–]FrenchCuirassier -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                They didn't shrink. And no not every president would act as Obama did. Obama hasn't done anything to fight back. He's weak and it's time people face up to the fact that when you elect a professor to office, he has no idea how to fight wars. Just as when you elect a general to office, he has no idea to do economics. It's human nature and Obama is no genius. He was surrounded by a group of advisers who always advised caution and who always told him to abandon allies.

                Now the US is falling under a puppet.. and what is Obama doing about it? Nothing. He's gonna watch it happen it looks like.

                He better be planning something or how is going to face his children when Donald deports him to Kenya and he's gonna say "shit I thought he was joking."

                Obama better be planning something... he better save the day... if he doesn't no one will.

                [–]indianadave 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Agree with the last part, but there is no way this congress which threw up every obstruction humanly possible to Obama is going to go along with him in the lame duck session.

                Come on.

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                They won't, but why risk it if you're Obama? Take some action.

                [–]indianadave 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Short of ordering bomb strikes on Moscow, don't know what there is to do.

                Unless it was Obama who leaked the report to the press

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Just re-do the election.

                [–]indianadave 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                100% agree.

                I think we are 2 months from finding that trump paid for interference.

                Though the s4p militia will be nigh intolerable wanting Bernie involved.

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                [–]helkar 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I'd argue that the famous "the 80s called" comment in the Romney-Obama debate took place in a much, much differ geopolitical climate. I am not sure I blame Obama for not foreseeing how aggressive Russia would become in the early 2010s. But I definitely agree that we should have been figuring out what the hell happened during this election a lot earlier than now. Especially given how long we, the public, have known about the possibility of Russia meddling in things. I have to imagine that the govt knew more a lot earlier.

                [–]memmett9 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Most people didn't spot the fact that the signs were there, but that doesn't change the fact that they were. Russia invaded Georgia (the country, not the US state) in 2008 while the Beijing Olympics were dominating the news, meaning it mostly slipped under the radar, and they maintain de facto control of two regions of Georgia (Abkhazia and South Ossetia). They've also been funding and supporting anti-EU and anti-NATO political parties in Europe for a while. Ask people from Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia and I'm sure you'll find that many have been worried about Russia for a very long time.

                [–]snookums 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I'd argue that the famous "the 80s called" comment in the Romney-Obama debate took place in a much, much differ geopolitical climate.

                You know what? I support Obama, but people need to stop carrying water for him with this excuse. It really wasn't that different. Putin had just transferred almost all of the powers of President to a new office that he inherited and hand picked his successor to the Russian Presidency. The US should have taken a hard line with Russia and not backed down on bringing the Ukraine into NATO. Obama, especially in his earlier years, was hopelessly naive in international politics and backed down.

                [–]apteryxmantelli 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                Aaaand here come the downvotes from Death Eaters. 88% and counting.

                [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                We're not death eaters we're the alt-life!

                [–]apteryxmantelli 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Labelling like that is why Voldemort won, comrade.

                [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                This is what the intolerant gryftards don't seem to get.

                [–]apteryxmantelli 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Slytherin is just economically anxious after all.

                [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Time to mobiliarbus the swamp!

                [–]Mership 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Don't you mean the paid Russian shills.

                [–]kobitz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Voldemort was the leader of the Magical Government of the United Kingdom after a coup and he put his gillies in ministerial positions, and ran a dictatorial administration based on the baseless persecution of a minority

                [–]Pentafractis 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (35子コメント)

                So...what now? Congress just confirmed his presidency. Was this all for nothing or does the Great Orange Moron have to answer for any of this? He lost the popular vote, 50 of his electoral votes were cast illegally, he's been caught out receiving help from foreign influence...

                So...what? What happens?

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (23子コメント)

                We wait and see. Turn on any news channel if you have cable. It's all over them. One thing they have been saying just now is that Trump absolutely cannot reject that it was Russia anymore.

                [–]AtomicRayGuns 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (20子コメント)

                Dude, nothing is going to change man.

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (19子コメント)

                A bunch of high level Republican Senators are ready to strike back against Russia immediately. It's going to be interesting to see them clash with Trump.

                [–]spectrosoldier 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (17子コメント)

                What could this mean for Trump?

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                I wish I knew. I mean in my head them clashing with Trump over a foreign nation (that the GOP 'despises' and Trump constantly defends) is just bonkers in general. The Dems are going to be out in full force. The GOP are the huge warhawks so that is why it'll be interesting to watch.

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Best case scenario: Pence is president within the year.

                Worst case scenario: Pence is president within 3 years.

                [–]kaimason1 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Pence was basically forced on Trump (over Trump's initial preference of Christie) by Manafort, IIRC (specifically, I believe Manafort lied to Trump about his plane having issues, tricking Trump into having dinner with Pence while things got "fixed up" and allowing extra time for Trump to be talked into selecting Pence instead). It'll be interesting to see what effect that has. I could see Pence being forced out too, depending on what stance he takes (it's possible he was pushed because he was the better strategic choice from a campaign perspective and not because of any Russia connection).

                [–]GrabEmByThePalossand 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                It's sad when the best case scenario is still a nightmare

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                A much lesser nightmare than the one we are facing. It's like heaven compared to what we might have under Donald.

                [–]tom641I voted! 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I'm starting to think it'd be worth taking the civil rights hits from Pence instead of letting a fucking spoiled child like Trump pretend to be our leader. I'm saying this as a white male so I apologize if i'm being ignorant, but the thoughts of Trump starting an arms race worries me more than same-sex marriage and women's reproductive rights being stepped on. Both are unforgivable but one path doesn't look so much like the Cold War.

                Besides, unless Trump actively opposes it he'd probably let the republicans stomp on them anyway if they wanted.

                [–]witchwind 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                1. Congress declares war on Russia.

                2. Trump refuses to move the army to Russia.

                3. ????

                [–]Rubberbabybuggybum 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                That he needs to decide what's more important. His country or The United States.

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Excellent.

                [–]spectrosoldier 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Damn that was good.

                [–]Kalel2319 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                He turns against republicans, republicans chose between the dark side and the light side of the force and hopefully put an end to his presidency?

                I don't know, man. The whole thing is fucked up.

                [–]Pentafractis 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                You know, I don't think this has ever happened, at least in my lifetime. The fact that a President Elect is literally receiving foreign aid to underhandedly gain an unfair advantage in an election is...well, it's treason, surely. I don't think anyone knows what to do. I don't think anyone has a plan.

                I'm scared, man.

                [–]Kalel2319 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                It's really unnerving. I'm right there with you. Sometimes as I'm going about my normal day I get jolted into "Oh fuck! The Russians attacked us!" Or "Oh fuck, Trump won".

                Sucks that this is reality now. And sucks that you can't even trust social media not to be infested with Russian trolls hitting us with a disinformation campaign. Sucks that they took advantage of the weakest of us.

                Fuck them.

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Plans come up at the last minute. People are getting over the shock.

                There's always hold outs ... people saying " but maybe it's not so bad"... and once those hold outs give up... Trump will be alone.

                A president who's alone can't do anything.

                People have been impeached for a lot less.

                [–]goldenraven54 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Veteran Republicans will get behind Pence. For him, at best, it's gonna make his life harder as president. At worst, for him again, it's impeachment.

                [–]zeeblecroid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                How many of them will make the slightest twitch past tough words to the press after a day or so of the PE denying anything happened? The track record running back through the campaign doesn't do any of them much credit.

                [–]tom641I voted! 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Now's he's shifted into "i'm not saying no buuuuut...." just like when pressed on if he'd accept the election results if he lost.

                [–]sin_pray_repeat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                There's nothing on fox about it.

                [–]joecb91I voted! 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                It will get into his head, he will probably lash out with even more insane tweets.

                Hopefully, more people that voted for him will admit they were wrong.

                And if he is as bad as most of us think he will be, he won't get a second term. He is already so unpopular, and it will only get worse.

                For now, that is all we have.

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                And if he is as bad as most of us think he will be, he won't get a second term.

                I'm hoping this idiot gets impeached immediately. The GOP would much rather have Pence in charge anyway. Trump is dumb and can easily be manipulated by the GOP but he is also easily manipulated by an SNL skit and Russia. Pence has the same damn agenda as the rest of the GOP.

                [–]Kalel2319 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                As pointed out elsewhere; we're getting Pence's agenda no matter what. Might as well lose the lunatic at the top.

                [–]cbthrow 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                But then you can blame the lunatic at the top when everyone turns on you. "Honestly, we tried our best to contain him!"

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Exactly.

                [–]joecb91I voted! 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Hopefully

                Pence sucks, but at least I'm not afraid of him with his finger hanging over the nuke button.

                [–]king_downvotes 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                You know... I'm pretty sure something like this must of happened before in American history. Is there an example of a president like this that we can look for and see what might happen in the future?

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                James Buchanan? One of (if not) the most incompetent Presidents in our history. Foreign influence wasn't there though. Close of anything I can think of off the top of my head.

                [–]ZZW30 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Maybe Ulysses S. Grant? He had no idea how to be president and got pushed around by everyone.

                [–]the_dummkopf 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Off the top of my head, the only thing I can think of that's even remotely close to what's going on is Nixon deliberately sabotaging Johnson's peace talks with the Soviet Union and North Vietnam to win the 1968 election.

                [–]table_fireplace 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I-M-P-E-A-C-H

                If you've got a Republican Senator, now's the time to get organized. Get involved with your local Democrats/3rd party and blow up their phones with hundreds o messages indicating you won't vote for them if Trump is still President when their election rolls around.

                Push the national security/Russian influence angle. Maybe someone can get a script going for calls. But don't let up until he's out of office.

                [–]totally_mathematical 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                Trump emerged from a briefing on the report by the nation’s top intelligence officials Friday seeming to acknowledge for the first time at least the possibility that Russia was behind election-related hacks. But he offered no indication that he was prepared to accept U.S. spy agencies’ conclusion that Moscow sought to help him win.

                Instead, Trump said in a statement issued just minutes after the high-level meeting ended that whatever hacking had occurred, “there was absolutely no effect on the outcome of the election.”

                It appears the argument is, Sure, it happened, but it had no effect so we can ignore it. Responding to this argument requires us to prove something impossible (i.e., without the propaganda, the outcome would be different). That's ridiculous.

                I say don't address it at all. It's a pointless detour. The problem is clear: Russia interfered with our internal politics and Trump appears to not care about sovereignty.

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Don't forget this which is important to add to that:

                Trump’s statement seemed designed to create the impression that this was the view of the intelligence officials, including Director of National Intelligence James R. Clapper Jr. and CIA Director John Brennan, who had met with him.

                But weighing whether Russia’s intervention altered the outcome of the 2016 race was beyond the scope of the review that the nation’s spy agencies completed this week. And Clapper testified in a Senate hearing Thursday that U.S. intelligence services “have no way of gauging the impact . . . it had on the choices the electorate made. There’s no way for us to gauge that.”

                [–]FrenchCuirassier 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                In military and intelligence affairs, if you CANNOT gauge something, then you MUST assume the worst is true and ACT.

                [–]nicodemusfleur 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Well, yeah, but Putin would stop texting him back if he acknowledged reality :(

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Trump probably tweets so much at 3am because him and Pootypoo are chit chatting while he takes a poopoo.

                [–]nowahhh 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Could a polling firm come up with something that makes some form of a case? Either in a hypothetical or a direct question, with a sample size large and diverse enough. I feel like one who managed that and could survive the scrutiny would get major press.

                [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                GEE WHAT A FUCKIN SURPRISE.

                [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I am shocked I tell you. Never saw this coming at all!

                [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Speechless! I'm at a loss for words.

                I mean who could've seen this coming?

                [–]Mol-lurker 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Trump supporters are like robots on Westworld, no matter what when confronted with reality they'll just reply "doesn't look like anything to me"

                [–]TheAustinKnightSAD! 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If you want a picture of the future, imagine Man-Ray asking Patrick about his wallet. Forever.

                [–]youlostthewarwehrs 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                When Trump is inevitably under attack from his own party as well as the Democrats, those trumpets should remember when the Republicans go to town on their social benefits, working conditions and retirement funds, these violent delights have violent ends

                [–]Come-My-Fanatics 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                MUTATION OF THE NARRATIVE

                • "I don't know Putin."

                • Russians? You're crazy. This isn't the Cold War, grandpa.

                • The Democrats keep talking about Russians on TV. Sore losers! Sad!

                • The CIA and NSA are talking about Russians, but the FBI hasn't confirmed it so it's bullshit.

                • The FBI are cucks.

                • Well sure, maybe Russians tried to interfere in the election, but they weren't trying to get Trump elected. They were just showing us the corruption of the DNC, man.

                • The Russians might have targeted the Democrats specifically, but it wasn't to help Trump win.

                • Okay, maybe the Russians did try to help Trump win, but it didn't have any effect. <---------- We are currently here

                • Maybe it had an effect, but that's okay because $HILLARY would have taken us to war with Russia.

                • Russia isn't our enemy, grandpa. Putin is a pretty great guy.

                [–]helkar 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                • We've always had peace with Russia.
                • We've always been at war with Russia.

                [–]brainiac3397 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                The protests on Jan 20 are going to be insane. All the crap about Trump and now there's an official document stating Putin got involved is going to really piss off people.

                [–]Matues49 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                r/The_Deplorables rn

                [–]Come-My-Fanatics 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Give 'em a couple hours. It's 2 in the morning in glorious motherland.

                [–]Choppa790 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Paid Russian Shills confirmed.

                [–]Whateverittakes1 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Those would have been the people accusing you of being CTR. Amongst many others.

                [–]gavinbrindstar 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                Congress and the Electoral College didn't do a fucking thing. What are they fucking good for? Fuck the Republicans who betrayed every single one of their so-called "principles" to elect this maniac, but fuck the Democrats too for their insistence on "going high."

                [–]snookums 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                The Democrats major mistake in this election was overestimating the intelligence of the American people.

                [–]RAKtheUndead 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Reminds me of Adlai Stevenson's purported response to somebody who shouted, "You have the vote of every thinking person!"

                "That's not enough, madam, we need a majority!"

                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                  [–]Pie_Gun 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  The democrats didn't lose for "going high", they went low, personally attacking Trump. They just didn't attack him in the right ways.
                  Where was the add calling him "Terrorist Trump" for is "kill the families" line
                  Or "Rapist Donald" for, everything
                  Or "Failure Donald" for his many failed businesses
                  Or "Liar Donald" for Trump University

                  [–]Carl_Bravery_SaganWay off the mark 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Get ready for another defense of the subreddit. Hold the door!

                  [–]amiiboyardee 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  So if the Russians tried to hack the RNC unsuccessfully, then isn't that a whole hell of a lot WORSE that Trump is hand-waving all of this? That means that he and the GOP are willfully complicit, not even bent over a barrel due to blackmail or anything.

                  [–]pointlessvoice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Yep. He's a billionaire (allegedly) so he and his cronies believe they are above reproach and the law. Hmmm...didn't Mussolini start out like this (minus the billions)?

                  [–]CargoCulture 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I really do not understand why nobody in the media is just straight-up asking "Has Donald Trump been compromised by Russia?" It certainly goes far to explaining pretty much the entire debacle.

                  [–]yzlautumTrump is a Russian Operative[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  They don't want to push conspiracies because most try to strictly give out the facts. Now, a guest being interviewed could say that.

                  But yeah I think it's a great question to ask. I've been wondering about that for many months because of his bizarre love relationship with Putin.

                  [–]Witty-username8194I voted! 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  The report.

                  [–]the_dummkopf 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  So, what happens if it turns out Trump won because of help from Putin? Do we hold a do-over election? Does Mike Pence become president? Does congress select a new president? Does the supreme court choose the next president? Do we go to war with Russia? Jesus christ. I feel like I'm living in a Tom Clancy novel.

                  [–]DiscoConspiracy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Rely on Congress to keep the worst of Russia-Trump Administration stuff in check.

                  If they aren't blackmailed, anyway.

                  [–]Pie_Gun 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Unless I am mistaken, Trump still legally won. It is sleazy as fuck, and (fingers crossed) will be the rallying point for the republicans to get rid of him. But as it stands, the Russians didn't actually forge votes, so Trump was still elected as president by the American people.

                  So unfortunately no, this is not enough for a do-over.

                  But this is enough to make Trump go down in history as the worst president ever. and that might just make him cry. So there's that :)

                  [–]dnz000 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I was just posting last night about how someone needed to tell Trump the Russians were doing more than a DNC hack.

                  This is better than expected, I know a few of us have been ranting about russian trolls in the past days/weeks.

                  [–]gatemansgc 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  okay, ABC world news tonight just had an image of trump before his briefing, and me and mom were cracking up at his hair. does anyone have a screenshot of how screwed up it was? google doesn't seem to have it yet.

                  [–]DiscoConspiracy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  I hope he's getting some sleep. If not, then I would be worried.

                  [–]apteryxmantelli 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  That photo from the linked article:

                  Anyone remember Lie To Me?

                  [–]RYCBARI voted! 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Wait, I'm not the only person who watched that show? Nice

                  [–]Dr_Fuckenstein 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Lie To Me the TV show was awesome.

                  Lie To Me the Trump/Putin 2016 Presidential campaign was not.

                  [–]Kekkeru 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  I wish they had continued the series.

                  [–]MakeUpAnything 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Wow, you gullible libtards, I don't see any evidence here; just fake news. Trump won because Americans want him to make America Great Again™. Get over it and be thankful we dodged Shitlery Killton™. Cucks.

                  [–]my_lucid_nightmareI voted! 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Well there it is. Either one believes our own official party line, or one believes the Putin / Trump party line.

                  Remarkable choice. One quite a few people seem to have no trouble with siding with the Russian dictator.

                  [–]S0cr8t3s 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Yet for a large faction of the US, this unprecedented story is overlooked. The real story, in their minds, is that "there is absolutely no evidence of Russian hacking of election machines" (Hannity) and that "NBC received info before the 'God emperor' (Trump tweet)."

                  [–]pointlessvoice 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Yeah but i'm convinced that the real story in the minds of a large fraction of the U.S. is "I couldn't care less about any of it."

                  i wish it didn't feel like that.

                  [–]SnapshillBot 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

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                  [–]th0myi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  And the plans for inauguration continues... I feel so played as an American.

                  [–]Aedeus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                  Not my President.

                  [–]Pie_Gun 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  literally this time

                  [–]Maddoktor2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  With this, all Republicans are now officially seditionists and/or traitors.

                  [–]Pie_Gun 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  The crazy bastards just ruined themselves. There will be an entire generation that will remember the time the Republicans sold out to Russia.

                  [–]helkar 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  quelle fucking surprise.

                  [–]PlanetXpressShip 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                  The United States is going to live or die based on what happens over the next two weeks. This is it. Not to be hyperbolic, but if we can't stop an obvious ploy by a major world superpower to undermine and control our highest office, then it's over.

                  I am not just trying to spread doom-and-gloom, this is the worst thing we've ever faced as a country. Versus world wars and nuclear annihilation, at the very least the people in power were working for the betterment of us as a country. That could have taken the form of authoritarian power, racism, bigotry, or greed, but at the absolute, bottom-of-the-barrel least it wasn't for the benefit of another country. If he becomes President, the game is up and you will see the United States toppled. Probably not dissolved or overthrown, but toppled. It will only be a matter of time.

                  [–]Pie_Gun 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  This is really bad, but the entire American system is set up to safeguard against accidentally electing a tyrant. This will be a dark stain on American history, but it is not the end of the world.

                  [–]IV-IVm-I 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  what exactly do you think Russia is going to do

                  [–]PlanetXpressShip 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  EXACTLY? I don't know. But, broadly, it will take the form of another incursion like Ukraine, but much bigger, that would normally prompt a resoponse from NATO. Except the U.S. will break from it's allies and not get involved. At which point NATO becomes toothless, the U.S. becomes an enemy to most of Europe, and while it is unlikely to start World War 3 (which I doubt can actually happen in this day and age as we once knew it) it will end with major economic damage, complete discredit on the national stage, and the end of America as the main superpower in the world.

                  [–]rico_rose 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                  Winter is coming..

                  [–]ser_dhusti 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                  Putin helped Trump get elected: "where's the proof huh?"

                  Hillary Clinton runs a pedophile sex ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor: "LOCK HER UP!"

                  [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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                    [–]terriblemothra 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Hmm oddly enough I don't see this anywhere on Trump subs. I wonder why that is.

                    [–]DiscoConspiracy -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Well, hopefully Russia will give us excellent affordable or free healthcare. We'll stick it to the conservatives who don't like supposed "hand outs." Right back at them.

                    They could have had a control or say in saving people's lives. Now we will rely on our former Cold War nemesis for generosity.

                    コメントをもっと表示する (30 返事)