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When a trans support group bans you for "cisphobia" (i.reddituploads.com)

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[–]Thrw2367 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (4子コメント)

That whole "trans support" stuff can wait until we're sure cis people are 100% comfortable.

[–]Spooky_Top_Hat 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean any group can kick someone out for being a general dick or negative person. Hard to tell what happened from OP's story, though.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It really isn't hard to tell. People got mad because I said cis people aren't oppressed and apparently that's the same as hate speech.

[–]Spooky_Top_Hat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Could've been the group overreacting or maybe you said something else that upset them but didn't realize it. There are two sides to every story and mommy told me not to trust strange people on the interwebs

[–]LilliaHakami 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean to one degree or another everyone is instituted in society and it will find some way to oppress you. Sure it won't always be institutionalized oppression, but it will find a way. Dios forbid you are born into our society with two X chromosomes because you will absolutely be a victim of institutionalized oppression cis or not. Even then stereotypes are arguably forms of oppression in and of themselves and even the majority groups are subject to them. It is honestly no surprise to me that your unsympathetic statement got you banned from a support group.

[–]HFlatMinorRIP John Lennon 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sounds like you probably said something shitty

[–]Hummdinger27Transitioning to one-up my gay friends 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (10子コメント)

It... kinda sounds like you did something wrong

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (8子コメント)

How? All I said was that cis people aren't oppressed

[–]Hummdinger27Transitioning to one-up my gay friends -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I don't know what you said, I wasn't there. But to get kicked out of a support group... I doubt all you said was "cis people aren't oppressed"

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It really was all I said. That and pointing out that most "down with cis" type comments are said in jest and nobody actually takes it seriously. It was on some big thread about how we trans folk need to stop being so cisphobic and it's no wonder people hate us. The group was pretty much cancer.

[–]Hummdinger27Transitioning to one-up my gay friends 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Okay, I just didn't know any of that story from the post alone

[–]Lilly_Cookie_Monster 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Two wrongs won't make a right. Violence will never end violence, hate will never end hate, they will only bring more of the same. Love, compasion, and understanding is the only way to end both of them.

Also large blanket statement twords one group or another in any way is generally frowned apon. People are individuals, and you don't know everyones stories. In my experience with people in our own personal life stories, everyone has at least one chapter they don't want to talk about.

You can't honestly ask some on in good faith 'don't treat me for what i am, treat me for who i am' which is the goal of pretty much any minority, then just start bashing another group of people. Seriously NO ONE chooses to be born, and no one choose what they are born as, or who their parent(s) are or aren't. To do an attack like that on any is not okay. It's a large blanket statement that you assumed on a large number of people, that shows you have a negative prejudice of them. Honestly the statement even goes as far to assume you've met and judged ALL cis people.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wow, you're clearly not reading this discussion at all.

Let me spell it out for you: practically nobody actually hates cis people. Violence is not happening to cis people. The two wrongs you're referring to are not happening

[–]Lilly_Cookie_Monster -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Violence happens to ALL people, what planet are you on? Ending hate goes both ways champ. ;)

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Allow me to clarify: violence to cis people does not happen because they are cis

[–]astraydoge 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for being a not-hateful person,unlike a lot of people here.

[–]42nullcat 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Cisphobia? They are now a minority? I always knew everyone secretly wanted to be trans. We now rule!

[–]FindingAmberMae 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's the cis under cover, we've been infiltrated!

[–]PavementBlues 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

How does someone need to be a minority to be the target of such a phobia? We could be the majority, but transphobia would still be a legitimate term describing negative, discriminatory attitudes aimed at our demographic.

No one deserves to be targeted for aspects of themselves that they can't change, whether they are the majority or the minority. It's called being a decent human being.

[–]astraydoge 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for being an ok human. This comment section is very toxic

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Majorities generally aren't the targets of oppression because majorities can get laws passed to their benefit, can prevent discrimination against themselves, etc.

Minorities are more often the targets because it's harder for a minority to actually do anything about it and so minorities can be continuously abused without intervention unless laws are put in place to prevent such discrimination.

Cis people are not oppressed; nowhere in the world are trans people more powerful or given more rights than cis people.

[–]PavementBlues 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm not saying that at all. I'm just saying that the existence of an identity-based phobia isn't based on minority status. Transphobia is vastly more prevalent than cisphobia, but just because cis people are the majority doesn't mean that cisphobia can't be a thing.

I feel like we're taking the "racism is a power structure" approach and just randomly applying it to any word at all that can be used to identify discriminatory attitudes.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Cisphobia can't be a thing. There's nothing trans people could ever do in the world we currently live in to actually oppress cis people.

[–]MaddieVW 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If discrimination is only ever an institution-level phenomenon, sure. This is not the case in the world we live in. What you describe is institutional cisphobia, which certainly does not currently exist (except, maybe, in trans-owned and operated institutions). Individual cisphobia, more clearly described as prejudice / antagonistic feelings towards cis people, is an entirely different story. I'm sure there are plenty of trans people (myself included) who harbor such feelings. No matter the reason, no matter that this is an understandable response to the transphobic conditions we live under day by day, this is prejudice against cis people.

Now... is that prejudice a problem? Nah. Being prejudiced is a part of being human. That's not going away any time soon. Beyond that, apprehension and distrust of cis people saves trans lives. And like you said, there's nothing we could do to institutionalize our prejudice.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Individual cisphobia isn't cisphobia any more than me not liking neckbeards would be considered neckbeardphobic. Personal prejudices are not oppression.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Apparently they're oppressed and bullied too much by evil sjws or something

[–]unstableisocrazyidentifies as like, whatever, you know? 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Lol at anyone who thinks sjws are a legitimate complaint.

I understand not wanting to spread negativity in a support group, but cisphobia? Unless you're calling for the extermination of all cis people what is there to say about them in a trans support group that isn't a valid criticism? They're the fucking oppressors, for crying out loud.

[–]PavementBlues 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I would never have gotten through the difficult early stages of my own transition if it weren't for the incredible, supportive cis people in my life, who have always been there when I needed encouragement or a shoulder to cry on, and who have always respected me for who I am.

Those people are not my oppressors, and I refuse any stereotyping that seeks to shun them based on their identity rather than their actions. I don't support it when it targets trans people, and I don't support it when it targets cis people. Bigotry is bigotry.

The fact that this comment is being upvoted makes me incredibly sad. I thought that our sub was better than this.

[–]unstableisocrazyidentifies as like, whatever, you know? 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Not all cis people are like that, obviously. My entire family is cis and they're super duper cool with me. I'm not talking about all cis people, just the bad ones. It's just shorthand when you're already on the same wavelength as someone else.

[–]PavementBlues 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm not talking about all cis people, just the bad ones

I don't understand how a categorical statement about an entire demographic would serve as shorthand for only specific members of that demographic. The "just the bad ones" logic is the same logic used frequently by racists to justify their own generalizations.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If I say "white people discriminated against black people in the 1950s," that doesn't mean literally every white person around then was racist.

[–]PavementBlues 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's a specifically conditional statement. Saying that white people discriminated against black people in the 1950's is one thing. Saying that we should be able to make any criticism that we want of cis people short of advocating their total extermination because they are our oppressor is a hell of a lot different.

That's not talking about "just the bad ones". Frankly, that wouldn't even make sense in the context of the comment.

[–]Metal-Marauder[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Saying that we should be able to make any criticism that we want of cis people short of advocating their total extermination because they are our oppressor is a hell of a lot different.

Where'd I say that? And also, criticism =/= hate. Criticizing the behaviors of cis people is not "cisphobic" and doesn't make them oppressed. They aren't oppressed.

[–]JennyLadyBug♪ ♀ ♥ 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bigotry arises from generalizations about a group.

They're the fucking oppressors

Minority or majority, at a fundamental level, this is no different from a generalization about trans people or any other minority. You can't just think in terms of us vs them; that only amplifies the problems we face. Every group has both good people and assholes.

[–]unstableisocrazyidentifies as like, whatever, you know? 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok, sorry. I'm not generalizing all cis people, just so that's clear. Let me explain though:

Just like when you discuss, you know... misogynists or racists or whatever, and you're talking with other people who are also victimized by that behavior, you're not saying "this entire group of [people who tend to be misogynists or racists] are like that," you're just talking about the ones who are. It's sloppy language, and not really pc, I get it, but it's really just metonymy, not overgeneralization.

When you're just shit talking with a group of people and you're all on the same page about something, you don't need to put a bunch of qualifiers in front of everything you say when everyone already understands what you're trying to say. Talking that way in a safe space... ok not a good idea. But in a place like this sub? Fine, imo. As long as it doesn't veer into outright hate speech, at least.

[–]Fim0458Why so many trans commies? I like it. 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I once got banned from an LGBT support group for complaining that they hadn't done anything to try and help anyone other than gay people for over 6 months, and petitioned to get them to change their name to say "A Gay Support Group" or do more to help Bs and Ts from time to time.

[–]Spooky_Top_Hat -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Can't we all just agree that cisphobia, transphobia, etc are generally shitty terms?

For one, it makes it seem the hatred or fear of the __phobe is irrational. It might seem irrational to you but it usually follows the logic of "This person is doing something I don't agree with; therefore, I hate them."

Secondly, if it were an actual phobia, it would be no fault of the ___phobe. Phobias arise from negative events in a person's past involving a certain thing making them feel extremely uncomfortable or frightened when exposed to that thing again. Having a phobia is nothing like hating a certain group of people or oppressing them.

Basically, it's not a phobia if the person's just being a bigot and I ranted on this because I have nothing better to do with my life shrug

[–]Suchega_Uber 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just wanted to say that phobias aren't linked to childhood completely, nor even most common. Like you said phobias are irrational. Being scared of something after a bad experience isn't really irrational. I feel like you were absolute in a situation with no absolutes.

[–]Spooky_Top_Hat 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's understandable, but still not rational. That's because the fear or hatred is disproportionate to the actual level of danger. Someone with a phobia of insects will be scared of moths even though they're harmless making their fear irrational.

Not sure what you meant in the rest of your comment