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A few bad apples. (self.GamerGhazi)

LuckyStampede が 投稿

This is just something that's been bothering me.

Why do people use "a few bad apples" to excuse anything? Like...oh, Trump supporters aren't racist/sexist/fascist, etc, it's just a few bad apples. Gamergate isn't a harassment campaign, it's just a few bad apples. Football teams/fraternities aren't cesspools of male privilege and sexual assault, it's just a few bad apples.

But...the whole phrase is "a few bad apples spoil the bushel."

Which is literally true, as spoiled fruit releases a gas that makes other fruit spoil faster.

So rather than an excuse or deflection, shouldn't saying it's a few bad apples be admitting that the whole bushel is rotten (or soon to be)?

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[–]PoliteTimesplitterSocial Justice 2kat Tryhard 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (0子コメント)

When a food handler finds even ONE bad apple, what do they do? They throw it out. Get rid of it. Stop it from destroying everything else. Not say it's actually okay and that everyone else should respect the apple's freedom to rot wherever it wants.

[–]thecarebearcares1 upvote=1 ethics 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (2子コメント)

What is illustrative of a movement is not its bad actors - basically every movement has them - but how the mainstream deals with them. If they're minimised, if their actions are dismissed as irrelevant, if they maintains status within the group, that's indicative of a 'spoiled bunch'. If they're condemned, shunned by the group and actively challenged, it isn't.

[–]Justice1482 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's well said. Every group and movement has bad actors. What the group does about the bad actors is what's important.

[–]CaelrieNew Mod, Same Great Oppression! 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, this is important. One side marginalizes their bad actors, while the other side lionizes them.

[–]HawkAtreidesCow-Mincing Betamax 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The main explanation for the people I have heard use the phrase is that they thought the original phrase was "Don't let a few bad apples spoil the bunch" / "Don't let one bad apple spoil the barrel", meaning "don't let some bad aspects make you think the whole thing is bad"; this may have been influenced by popular songs, writings, or sayings to that effect that people then believed were the original. They're wrong, but that's one explanation from my limited personal experience.

[–]touch_o_frost 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You hit the nail on the head. Phrases like that get picked up by repetition, mis-used, and the meaning shifts over time. Same process as with words like 'literally.'

In my opinion there is often such wisdom in expressions that have stood the test of time, if you look beyond the meaning inferred from the context of their most common usages.

[–]zeeblecroid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

My personal 'favorite' lately remains people who prefix a statement they (usually) sincerely hold with "devil's advocate," thinking that insulates them or the statement from any kind of criticism.

[–]touch_o_frost 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

lol yeah, great example. as if "playing devil's advocate" is some kind of virtuous act. i want to look those people in the eye and scream look at the words! look at what they mean!

[–]zeeblecroid 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's not even that as much as the dishonesty factor. I don't think most people who love the term to the point of it being a prefix to whatever they say are using it to mean "I value a healthy back-and-forth on this topic" as much as "I know saying this will annoy people, so I'm going to use a disclaimer to pretend it's not my actual opinion."

[–]Justice1482 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't see anything wrong in trying to look from another's perspective, even if you find their position to be deplorable. Such an exercise will likely just expose how irrational their viewpoint is.

[–]zeeblecroid 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, but just make sure that it is another perspective. If someone's just dressing up their actual views behind some sort of shield they should just own them instead.

[–]rooktakesqueenCultural Bolshevik 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think my favorite is "jack of all trades" which shifts meaning twice depending on how much you leave out.

"Jack of all trades" -- someone with lots of skill in different areas, a Renaissance man.

"Jack of all trades, master of none" -- if you don't focus on one thing, you'll never be truly good at anything.

"Jack of all trades, master of none, often is better than a master of one" -- often you need general skill and knowledge more than specialization.

Other examples: "curiosity killed the cat, satisfaction brought him back." "Great minds think alike, but fools seldom differ."

[–]MarxistSociologist 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The problem with what you are saying, is if we start to blame entire groups for the actions of individuals, then we are basically giving the right wing permission to do the same.

I mean, lots of Trump Supporters are racist/sexist/fascist, but if we blame every single Trump Supporter for that, we are no better than all the Islamophobes who blame muslims as a whole for terrorism, or the Anti-Feminists who only look at the radial feminists.

[–]WizardofStazGG no re 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Except they aren't just a group of people who happen to have some bad apples, Trump supporters in particular might as well call themselves Bad Apple Supporters. Trump himself is problematic, so anyone who supports him is, at best, accepting of that sort of thing if it means getting what they want.

[–]Allabear 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I get what you're trying to say, and I agree, but there's one pretty major flaw where your analogy breaks down. Most Muslims or radical feminists don't do anything to actively support the things that Islamophobes and anti-feminists usually complain about, and the ones that do are often shunned by their own groups, but all Trump supporters, by the definition of being Trump supporters, have actively done something to increase racism/sexism/fascism.

[–]moomizu -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ah right so you managed to figure out a way to twist the OP's original message so it condemns your enemy yet excuses your own agenda.

bravo!

[–]DPeteD 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wittgenstein.jpg

[–]republicannarnia -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The logical extreme to your argument is to treat every stereotype as true.

[–]WizardofStazGG no re 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You misunderstand the point. It's not saying a group is bad if some of its members are bad. It's saying a group is bad if some members are bad and the other members accept/support/tolerate that badness rather than removing those members or encouraging them to change.

A bushel of apples that has a single rotten apple in it can easily be salvaged just by removing the one bad apple. If you leave it in with the others long enough, though, they'll all rot.

[–]slipshod_alibiCultural Bolshevik 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The logical extreme of astrophysics is heat death, but I still have to live day to day.