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submitted by anuragsins1991 to /r/india
Copied as is :
People are saying what's the problem with a 4500/- daily ATM limit and 24,000 per week limit?
I say, no problem, I don't even require so much cash every week.
My problem is that the limit takes away my freedom to deal with my own money. It is not the RBI's money, it is not the Governments Money, it is my own money which is in the bank because the representative currency was made illegal and my money captured into a bank account.
My problem is that I no longer have access to something I own.
My problem is that the banks have proven to be reckless with my money and their non-performing assets are rising by the day. As of yesterday their non-performing assets were reported to have risen by 4,40,000 Crores! How do I trust such banks, bankers and the banking system loosely regulated by the Reserve Bank of India?
What if somebody took away your car and told you that you can drive it for 20 kilometers only every day and 200 Kilometers in a week and made changes in the fuel tank in such a way that you can not exceed those limits? That the car will not move an inch on a daily basis if you drove it for 20 Kilometers?
Would that not take away your freedom?
My money is my freedom and an attempt at taking away my money by a force of law is an assault on my freedom. In other words this government has encroached on my fundamental right to freedom.
And that is my real problem. Is it not yours?
154 comments | 16 [removed]
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[-]bit_freak 28 points (1 children)
What good is a limit if the atms run dry within hours. There is hardly enough cash in the system. Folks with multiple cards easily bypass the limit.
[-]1sense [score hidden]
I am shocked by this as well. And no one seems to be up in arms about how our government simply lied about 50 days limit.
People argue about individuals and ask questions if 24K isnt enough, but what about small to medium sized businesses? It is simply unrealistic to have them wait till either cash is available or till everyone starts using digital payments.
I wish someone would file a PIL in Supreme Court and puts sense in this mess. This simply borders on emergency imo.
[-]awkward_pause_ 51 points (2 children)
This needs to be forwarded. However, people are so blinded by mudi's neo nationalism that they are willing to give up their rights too.
[-]MajorHoLeeFuk 7 points (3 children)
Lol, get a grip. You think you ever had absolute freedom?
You ever owned land? It's your land yet if you want to build something on it, you require planning permission. It's your land yet if the government wants to build a highway through it, one way or another, they will despite your objections.
This isn't a "MUH MODI", this is a "Wake the fuck up, Governments across the world have been shitting on your rights for centuries and will shit on your rights for centuries to come", the trend is governments across the world TAKING AWAY your rights and not giving you rights.
[-]awkward_pause_ 14 points (1 children)
So what is your intention behind this comment?
We let it go? We should not raise our voices? Just because they have doing since centuries we let them continue? Do two wrongs make a right?
I find your argument very strange, with all due respect.
[-]MajorHoLeeFuk 5 points (3 children)
Can you not see that I just said "this isn't a "MUH MODI" issue".
This is the problem with people like you. You turn this into petty party politics without seeing the bigger picture. All it boiled down for you was "Mudi's neo-nationalism", the "MUH MUDIJI", that was it.
You don't really give a shit about your rights, you just wanted a potshot at "Mudi", that was it.
This isn't an issue of BJP/Modi/INC/AAP etc. etc., this is an issue of GOVERNMENTS, irrespective of party, ACROSS THE WORLD taking away the rights of the common citizen.
Read upon WorldNews, read upon WikiLeaks, read up on Edward Snowden, read up on the censorship in Russia, read up on NSA, read up on the Snoopers' Charter in the UK...this shit is not "MUDI neo-nationalism", this shit is typical government policy across the world.
And do you know what? Just read the fallout with regards to the Russian hacking scandal, people are actually outraged with Russia because they uncovered the truth. It's as if they wanted to be lied to by the DNC and it's as if they don't understand their hypocrisy with their nation screwing up elections of countless others over decades.
[-]awkward_pause_ 8 points (1 children)
Bhai, right now who am I saying against? Who has put the limits? The mudi government right? So it is obvious that I'll be taking potshots at them.
I mean it is ridiculous you dragged this conversation to other political parties when I not even once mentioned such thing. All I have been doing is questioning the rationale of limits.
How did you assume that I wouldn't have opposed this move if it was taken by all the parties you listed. I would have.
PS: I'm not a modi or congress supporter. I'm just questioning the government's decision and asking them to justify it satisfactorily.
[-]MajorHoLeeFuk [score hidden]
You've got an agenda, you keep saying "Mudi" and unnecesssarily said "Mudi neo-nationalism".
And I keep saying to you that (a) this is happening across the world in all governments, it is not a "Mudi neo-nationalism" issue, (b) it has happened in India before Modi and (c) most people aren't even aware/or don't even care that their rights are being taking away little by little and that the ILLUSION of freedom is just that...an illusion.
[-]anuragsins1991 2 points
But who took us Backwards in terms of freedom ? MUH MUDIJI
[-]Randiathrowaway17 [score hidden] - [removed] (1 children)
Hi /u/ekti_morog
Get better alts.
[-][deleted] [score hidden] - [removed]
[likely removed by automoderator]
[-]anuragsins1991 9 points (1 children)
Well if we had less freedom before, then this is even less than that. Are going back ? or forward.
[-]MajorHoLeeFuk 4 points
Back and we will forever be going back unless there is a revolution of some sort. I'm not talking armed violence however, AAP promised to be such a revolution yet has failed so far. Kejriwal is a man, I feel, who has good intentions but has to play the political game, i.e. spout shit so he gets in the media to try and break the two-party dominance. He is annoying as hell but at least his attacks keep the current government on their toes whilst INC are woefully inept.
I don't particularly like AAP, I don't like their supporters, I'd never vote for them (BJP supporter) but a strong and credible AAP is necessary for Indian politics, it's necessary for people to have a 3rd party alternative (as in Punjab now), it's necessary so that people can protest vote and give a big FU if the current government/INC aren't performing and it's necessary for BJP to be kept on their toes. So in that sense, AAP has been a sort of a mini-revolution.
Politics is immensely out of shape and immensely out of touch across the world. You only have to look at the drubbing of INC in '14, Brexit and Trump victories in '16 to see how people are so discontent. Look at the 2G scandal, near $5billion in a country full of poverty...it breaks one's heart.
Politics is a dirty business. The quote that goes along the lines of "behind every cynic there is a disappointed idealist"? So true. With INC, I expect a "liberal, secular, good for the poor" party but all India got was fucking votebank politics, further division of Muslims, incompetency with UPA II and lies, greed and goddamn fucking corruption. It breaks your heart seeing someone like Manmohan Singh give a blind eye to 2G or other scandals. You are just left with trust issues thinking to yourself "Wow, the seemingly incorruptible are truly corruptible!"
I just feel that our rights will be further and further revoked across the world and nothing will come of our protests and future generations will get used to it because that's all they know. :)
[-]bishopsandrooks [score hidden] (1 children)
Is the government right in taking control of your money? Your reply didn't at all counter the main premise of the OPs post.
[-]MajorHoLeeFuk [score hidden]
Is the government taking control of your money in the first place? You do realise this is just paper currency and there are no restrictions on online payments/digital transactions.
[-]sourcex 4 points
UNESCO approves of it.
[-]awkward_pause_ 1 points (1 children)
Lol. I'll make a fake twitter account and tweet the shit out of this. I don't think anything will happen though due to the BJP IT cell.
[-]IcarusFam 2 points
post on AAP fb group, their IT team will take it from there. or tag some AAP spokesperson on twitter.
[-]RavichandranAshwin 18 points - [removed] (7 children)
> My problem is that the limit takes away my freedom to deal with my own money. It is not the RBI's money, it is not the Governments Money, it is my own money which is in the bank because the representative currency was made illegal and my money captured into a bank account.
Do people not understand the difference between money, cash and paper currency?
Everyone is free to use their money as they wish, the only limit is on the use of paper currency as the medium of exchange. One can use other instruments like Cards, Cheques, Drafts, RTGS, NEFT, IMPS to send and receive as much as cash the want and have.

THE GOVERNMENT/RBI HAS NOT RESTRICTED THE CITIZENS OF INDIA FROM USING THEIR OWN MONEY, THE ONLY RESTRICTION IS ON THE USE OF PAPER CURRENCY AS THE MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE FOR GOODS AND SERVICES.

[-]awkward_pause_ 6 points (3 children)
They are limiting a choice.
[-]knowsalotofthings 4 points (4 children)
The choice was always limited. You couldn't ever withdraw unlimited amounts of cash from an ATM and you were okay with it before. It is not the principle but the amount that you're up against. And it is only because the government decided to ban currency notes which was stupid but the limits are due to scarcity of currency and not because they want to take away your freedoms.
What do you think will happen if ATMs started dispensing 50k again? Will you be happier with that in the middle of this fuck-all-no-reason cash crunch we're facing?
[-]awkward_pause_ 10 points (1 children)
You are absolutely correct, there were ATM withdrawal limits.
However, you could still withdraw from the banks. Right now, you can't. The government intentionally wants to keep the money in the banks.
According to our honorable finance minister Arun Jaitley, there is no cash crunch 'at all'. Then what exactly is the rationale of having limits? Please don't say 'digital india', we hardly have any infrastructure and it is a good decade away.
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points (2 children)
Then what exactly is the rationale of having limits?
This is not about politics. I personally think DeMo did more bad than good and I don't care about Arun Jaitley. But your logic is wrong and this post is stupid.
There is not enough currency in the system to satisfy everyone's demands right now because everyone needs cash and ATMs are running dry. If they remove the limits, the first person to reach the ATM gets 50k. Everyone else gets nothing. Would that be more fair? That is the rationale of having limits.
[-]awkward_pause_ 4 points (1 children)
So you agree that Arun Jaitley is lying and there indeed is a cash crunch right?
How will you trust this government again on anything when they are misguiding people and lying about 'money' matters. You really don't want people to demand an answer from the government and explain a solid rationale for having the limits?
Either they accept that there is a cash shortage or remove the limits. Why such opaqueness? Today in this, tomorrow they will lie about how they are keeping our data and not misusing and fooling us? This is not only about the limits in specific but also about the attitude and functioning of the government in general.
[-]knowsalotofthings 2 points (1 children)
You really don't want people to demand an answer from the government and explain a solid rationale for having the limits?
The rationale for having limits is solid as I just stated and you couldn't refute that. The rationale for banning currency notes is what I don't understand and I want to know that.
This is not only about the limits in specific but also about the attitude and functioning of the government in general.
Is it really tho? Or are you just copping out of the argument because you can't refute it? Soldier kar dunga ab mein, beware...
[-]awkward_pause_ 0 points (1 children)
I don't think you read the comment.
You said:
There is not enough currency in the system to satisfy everyone's demands right now because everyone needs cash and ATMs are running dry.
To which I said that the government is not ready to accept that there is a cash shortage. If there is no cash shortage then why the limits?
I did not cop out, you didn't understand the point I'm trying to make. On the ground there is a cash crunch, you and I know that but the none of the ministers and the government ever said that there is a cash crunch. So my question is why the limits then? Did you get that?
In fact, you safely avoided saying that yes, Arun Jaitley and the government is in fact lying about the cash situation.
[-]knowsalotofthings 1 points (1 children)
In fact, you safely avoided saying that yes, Arun Jaitley and the government is in fact lying about the cash situation.
Why would I avoid saying that? I'm not pro-any party.
On the ground there is a cash crunch, you and I know that
Exactly, hence the limits. That's the rationale behind the limits. Why are the political leaders lying? Because they're always lying and that's what we need to fight at the end of the day.
You and me are on the same team. I don't support any particular political party and I don't have any political loyalty (which IMO is stupid). I support what's good for the nation. DeMo wasn't good for the nation in the short term but the government still made that happen. ATM limits right now in the shitty situation is good for the nation and I support that.
Of course the higher ups are all crooks. Rally against that. Don't rally behind issues like this post which is stupid. Use your argumentative skills for better things.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden]
The same thing, it is not only about the limits, it is about how the government is lying and misguiding people and is not ready to accept what is wrong.
If it is not ready to accept that there is a shortage of cash and people are having trouble in carrying out even their daily lives and you aren't ready to raise a voice to make them listen and reply and be accountable - I don't know what can I say.
I got that you and me are on the same team but this is about the attitude of the government and treating its citizens like fools.
As you said:
Why are the political leaders lying? Because they're always lying and that's what we need to fight at the end of the day.
Completely agreed. Asking them to remove or reveal the reason for limits does exactly that.
[-]anuragsins1991 1 points (1 children)
But they themselves said there is no cash crunch and have been parroting same since the 2nd week after DeMo, so what now ?
Either the cash is being redirected somewhere, not to public. Or there is a cash crunch.
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points (1 children)
But they themselves said there is no cash crunch and have been parroting same since the 2nd week after DeMo, so what now ?
Yes because I'm the spokesperson of BJP. Again, this is not about politics. I vote, I don't make a huge deal out of it. I disagree with DeMo entirely but I also disagree with the ATM LIMITS TAKE AWAY MY FREEDOM argument. Fight the government for the right reasons, not the wrong ones.
[-]anuragsins1991 3 points
IS NOT ATM LIMIT, its limit per account per week including ATM. 24k, you either withdraw using ATM or cheque.
And yeah that guy is not the spokesperson, he is FM of India.
[-]persuader00 3 points (1 children)
You couldn't ever withdraw unlimited amounts of cash from an ATM and you were okay with it before.
Most banks allowed cash withdrawal from ATMs of 1 lakh a day, some even allowed 1.5 lakh a day using debit cards.
Now it's 24k a week.
There was never any limit on withdrawing cash from the bank.
What do you think will happen if ATMs started dispensing 50k again? Will you be happier with that in the middle of this fuck-all-no-reason cash crunch we're facing?
Are you seriously blaming us for wanting normalcy? It's not our fault that we ended up with a moron for a PM who fucked everything up for nothing.
And please read what you wrote again...
And it is only because the government decided to ban currency notes which was stupid but
and
the limits are due to scarcity of currency and not because they want to take away your freedoms.
The scarcity was created by the govt. and it has resulted in loss of freedoms. There's no two ways about it.
[-]knowsalotofthings 2 points (1 children)
The scarcity was created by the govt. and it has resulted in loss of freedoms. There's no two ways about it.
Or the govt. didn't plan their move at all and are trying to do damage control right now? That's my view on it. As I stated again and again, I don't fully support DeMo but that's for different reasons other than ATM limits and freedom which was the central premise of the post.
[-]purrplexer [score hidden]
So we have a choice between considering the government malicious or considering it incompetent?
[-]knowsalotofthings 2 points
But I, citizen on the ground standing in queues for ATM cash, beg to differ.
[-]purrplexer 0 points (1 children)
The scarcity of currency is not some kind of natural disaster -- like an infestation of termites or locusts that have eaten our currency -- that I cannot suspect the government's intentions. The government caused this scarcity, in two deliberate steps -- first demonetization and secondly not printing enough replacement currency.
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points
Yes so that's an issue I agree with. I don't agree with the fact that new ATM limits is taking away my freedom, which is the logic behind the post.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
You always had the choice.
1.Gov decided that they will use gold coins as a currency. People under them obliged or they will have go back to bartering.
2.Gov decided that they will use paper as a currency. People under them obliged or they will have go back to bartering.
See the pattern. You had the choice of adopting barter for yourself but you chose what the gov decided. You still can barter or use modern methods of transactions.
[-]RavichandranAshwin -1 points - [removed] (2 children)
Please see my edit.
[-]awkward_pause_ 2 points (1 children)
I'm sorry but who gives the government right to decide how much I will spend and how? They can definitely promote but can't enforce.
This is a very stupid argument that since no one requires more than 1 lakh, let's put a limit there. This is not a question of that if he makes so much he must be having a debit card and hence he will be fine.
Suppose you are getting 90 marks which is the highest in the class. The second highest being 82. Now your college authorities say that even if you get 85, you'll be the highest. So we are deducting those 5 marks and giving it to someone who is failing. It is alright right since he is still the highest? That's what you are saying. It is completely illogical.
What if I have an emergency and need urgent cash of 50k? Digital India sounds all nice in speeches but ground realities are very different.
If my income is legit and tax paid, it is my right to use it the way I want. Instead of putting limits like this, you make your processes better and have a better tax structure. GST would really be a game changer in that sense and that is supported.
[-][deleted] 1 points - [removed] (1 children)
[removed]
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden] (1 children)
Not all hospitals accept cheques because of the risks associated with it. Moreover it takes time to get credited.
Yeah right, you want a person who got into a medical emergency to first run to the bank and get a Demand Draft made and then get the hospital to accept it.
I don't even want to put up a counter since you consider the argument moot.
Cash by itself means paper currency. It means money in coins, notes and not cheques, money orders, or credit. If this is how you interpret English words I really can't blame you for not understanding a complex argument.
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[-]ponniyin_selvan 1 points (1 children)
Your edit argument doesn't consider two important categories:
  1. One might not require 1 Lakh every month. But one might need 1 Lakh in urgent scenarios.
  2. For good or bad, there are lot of small/medium businesses that are driven by cash economy. And DeMo is definitely not the right way to bring them into digital money. They have suffered for literally nothing.
Your edit argument doesn't cover these two important categories.
[-]RavichandranAshwin 1 points - [removed]
Please understand, Cash is different from Paper Currency.
[-]hoopy_frood42 2 points (1 children)
Even if I have access to banking facilities doesn't mean I like using them. I don't trust banks with my money and I would rather transact all in cash. Now, even though I paid all my tax with due diligence I am forced to use a method of payment I am not comfortable with and I would avoid using it thus restricting my right to spend my own money.
[-][deleted] 1 points - [removed]
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[-]parthjoshi09 3 points (1 children)
Dude go away with your logical and sane comment. You are supposed to bitch about Modi on r/india. Useless fellow.
[-]SuggestMeUsername 0 points
BHAKT SPOTTED
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points
Finally some saneness over here.
[-]purrplexer 1 points (1 children)
Are you aware of the relation between individuals and banks, especially through savings bank accounts? Do you understand that when you are forced to 'just keep the money in the bank' you are really being forced to lend your money to that bank? And i dividual banks can make bad judgement calls and fail -- as in go bankrupt and not be able to return your money when you need it? Also that while there is such a thing as 'deposit insurance' to cover this eventuality, that only covers 1 lakh per person?
[-][deleted] 2 points - [removed] (2 children)
[removed]
[-]purrplexer 1 points (1 children)
Or, since this is the 21st century, something like bitcoins. Or even thinking in a 20th century way, in the currency which seems to be (in my opinion) stable and reliable.
[-][deleted] 1 points - [removed]
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[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden]
What is your point?
[-]seriousdiscusser91 -1 points (2 children)
All questions that randia will shit over and go "muhhh freedom" and "I WANT MY MONEYZZZZ!!!". Idiots. They don't know the difference between M0 and M2 cash, what Modi's restrictions are aimed at, how people are adopting faster than they can imagine (local tapri in my area now has a Paytm QR code put up). To think this place has absolutely any idea about India itself, much less more serious subjects like economics and policies is a fallacy. They quote in terms of news articles instead of real world examples.
At least normal redditors on other subs move out of the way if you bring up subjects like economics. And whoever comes on, however misguided his views, at least knows what he's saying. This is the only sub I've come across which has no clue, as in they have literally not a shred of even the glint of an idea in their mind, about serious subjects. Someone here tells me 20 days after the demonetisation exercise "THIS IS GOING TO SLOW DOWN THE ECONOMY!! WATCH AS MY GREAT PREDICTION COMES TRUE, YOU TROGLODYTE!!!". Yeah, no shit bro. I'd have shorted rates before Modi's speech ended. Great economic thinking. Just 20 days too late.
[-]DeeliciouslyMali 2 points (1 children)
Seriously,if Modi reverses everything back to how it was before Novermber 8,2016,you will have difficult time to defend your agrument now.
[-]seriousdiscusser91 -1 points
The fact that you think that is even a possibility at this point suggests how much you've been influenced by the wrong side of the argument in this case. I'll wager 6 months of gold against you that it won't happen. Wanna put your money where your mouth is?
[-]awkward_pause_ 1 points
Lol. We know what the cash restrictions are aimed at, we want to government to come clean about them. Is that a bad thing now? Making government accountable and asking reasons for their policies in a democratic country?
Rest all your wrote, well, you are also a part of this sub and the same applies to you.
[-]anuragsins1991 -2 points (2 children)
Kar diya na chutiyon wali baat,
If I am in 10 lakh or more bracket then only I am allowed to spend more than 1 lakh in any one month ? If could be earning 5 lakh, then I can't take out 1 lakh in any one month ? Saving, heard of it ? Saving then buying something, heard of it ?
Ya fir Modi ji ne bol diya ki only 10 lakh income per annum wala hi le sakta hai car and you believed it ?
2.5 Lpa guy can't save and buy big car after some years ? or a guy earning the same his whole life can't buy a car once ?
If I deposited my cash savings in bank and I want them out, why should I not be able to ?
Why should we be limited to using Digital ? I want to use cash, why the fuck do they care ?
[-]MrAnthem 4 points
I want to use cash
Well, they don't have the cash.
[-]RavichandranAshwin 7 points - [removed]
Again without resorting to abuse like you have, I will reiterate for high-value transactions one should and must use other banking instruments.
[-]persuader00 7 points (1 children)
How about the Prime Minister fucking lied to us on Nov. 8?
\4. After depositing your money in your account, you can draw it when you need it.
[-]singham -1 points (1 children)
You have to lie to public for their greater good. Otherwise panic would ensue.
[-]persuader00 2 points (1 children)
Rubbish. We are not little kids.
The problem is Modi has been a lying for years about everything and has managed to get away with it. Everything from "Vibrant Gujarat" and "Gujarat Model" to "15 lakhs" to the reasons for "demonetisation" has been a lie.
[-]singham [score hidden] (2 children)
Shows you how much bigotted you are. You just want a government which does nothing so that you can pile cash in your home.
[-]persuader00 [score hidden] (1 children)
LOL so now anyone who calls out Modi for being a serial liar is a cash hoarder?
Go ahead call me a Pakistani and be on your merry way... bigot! :-p
[-]singham [score hidden]
I reply to the quality of comment. You have none. You dimwit.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden]
you can pile cash in your home.
What is wrong with that?
[-]thrownwa 5 points
Modi has failed in what he promised. Extension of withdrawal limit is glaring example of his failure.
[-]bane_4u 2 points
Aren't the notes owned by RBI?
[-]knowsalotofthings 7 points (5 children)
My problem is that I no longer have access to something I own.
You can still access your cash via digital payments. Nobody is taking your cash away. There were always transaction limits regarding withdrawal and spending and you agree with it when you deposit your money in the bank.
What if somebody took away your car and told you that you can drive it for 20 kilometers only every day and 200 Kilometers in a week and made changes in the fuel tank in such a way that you can not exceed those limits? That the car will not move an inch on a daily basis if you drove it for 20 Kilometers?
You can but you just have to use a different fuel. Learn to adapt with technology. Stop thinking about cash in terms of currency notes. Use digital payments, save yourself the cost of carrying cash. Or if you don't want to then keep withdrawing until you empty your bank account. Nobody will stop you.
In other words this government has encroached on my fundamental right to freedom.
LOL. Fundamental right to freedom is a big term to use for this situation.
DeMo was a bad move for many reasons but arguments like this are stupid and take away from the real fuck ups that DeMo did.
[-]anuragsins1991 5 points (2 children)
Yeah Digital payments make sense in a country like India. Every shop wants extra when you pay via card, you want us to use UPI ? No one is on it, Paytm, nah.
There are extra payments asked for every digital transaction, remove them first then go cashless.
[-]knowsalotofthings 5 points
There are extra payments asked for every digital transaction, remove them first then go cashless.
Yes, the government should incentive cashless payments and promote upi more. Instead of forwarding flawed logic on facebook, why not forward upi awareness?
[-]dhantana [score hidden]
While I have slowly turned against DeMo since it was first introduced (at which point I was for it), a lot of shopkeepers atleast in the urban areas have started accepting cards and PayTM. And none of them are asking for extra when you pay by card/PayTM.
Right now in my daily routine the only place I really need cash is the bus where ironically the government bus corporation doesn't accept digital payments.
[-]parthjoshi09 6 points (1 children)
That Car-Cash analogy makes no sense. Car won't move an inch after 20kms but regarding cash, You can still buy things or transfer money online.
[-]DeeliciouslyMali 1 points (2 children)
You can still buy things or transfer money online.
I can but I don't want to.This is my choice of freedom.Period.You cannot decide whether I like cashless or not.This is what the goverment is forcing me to do.
[-]knowsalotofthings 2 points (2 children)
Why did you put your money in the bank in the first place if you were so anti-cashless? Hypocritical IMO.
[-]DeeliciouslyMali [score hidden]
you were so anti-cashless? Hypocritical IMO.
No offence,How was your father doing before companies like paytm came to existence? Was he a black money hoarder by keeping cash at home and dealing with bulk of cash.Didn't he had a Bank account back then?Was your Mom a hustler of cash spending on gold and stashing cash anywhere? Was she a black money loving homemaker because she liked dealing with cash?
Fucking Idiots these children of millennials.😠
[-]purrplexer [score hidden]
After November 8th, it is because Mr Modi forced me to (the other option being to lose all of it come New Year)
The real argument is that the distribution of someone's savings (or wealth, if you prefer) across different asset classes should ideally be left to that person's comfort level.
Also true about how I like my liquid value, based on my circumstances. No good keeping it in Mobikwik, say, if all the shopkeepers where I 'm going will only taly PayTM. Currency is the one thing they all accept.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
This is what the goverment is forcing me to do.
That's right. No law prevents them. Giving you cash is not gov's responsibility.
[-]persuader00 5 points (1 children)
You can still access your cash via digital payments.
Which is absolutely useless if you have to travel to rural areas.
You cannot even withdraw cash in an emergency.
[-]knowsalotofthings 2 points (1 children)
I agree with that and that's one of the side-effects of DeMo that people don't talk about more often.
But on a logical pov, you can still access your cash, just that nobody is willing to accept it in rural areas.
[-]kash_if [score hidden] (1 children)
you can still access your cash
Basically a restricted access to money that I own.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
How does rural people not accepting it implies gov is restricting your access to money?
[-]svmk1987 [score hidden]
That's the point about digital payments. It's not total freedom. The govt will know exactly where you're spending your money. It's not anonymous anymore. There's no privacy.
[-]DeeliciouslyMali -1 points (2 children)
You can still access your cash via digital payments. Nobody is taking your cash away.
I do not trust India's digital system.It is a 3rd world country.It is rigged.So do you want me to force something which can be vulnerable to theft?Do you have any arguement that it isn't?
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points (2 children)
It is a 3rd world country.It is rigged.
How is upi rigged? Please provide some source.
So do you want me to force something which can be vulnerable to theft?
Because cash is not vulnerable to theft in a third world, rigged country like India at all.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden] (1 children)
Tell me that a proper, transparent audit of all the security infrastructure our telecom operators use has happened and vetted. What about the banks? Is any such report public? How are you sure that no misuse is happening? Because the government is saying so lol.
Tell me USSD will be completely safe.
Tell me that my data will not be misused.
Now, in case anything wrong happens, are our laws enough? Is the judiciary able to solve these issues? No.
Even, except Delhi, all no judges have been appointed in those special courts which are to be formed for this.
Cash is known. The laws are all these. Yes, the theft can happen but we know where to go. Today, If my money doesn't reach my PayTM account, it directs me to the bank and the bank directs me to PayTM. Police as usual is helpless.
It is not a simple transition.
[-]dhantana [score hidden]
Do first world countries do transparent audits the reports of which are made public?
[-]purrplexer [score hidden]
Won't say much about UPI per se, but the AADHAR biometric based authentication system is a recipe for losing everything from all your bank accounts (while when cash gets stolen, you loss is limited to the value of the currency you lost).
See, when you lose your currency note it is no longer with you and you'll soon find it out. In case of a 'swipe & PIN' card if the card details are stolen (e.g using a compromised or fake POS device) you won't find out till the first actual loss, then you can issue a stop order and get a new card/PIN.
If you lose your biometrics (someone obtains your fingerprints -- maybe from a fake POS machine, or even from a glass you touched in a restaurant) you won't come to know before the first loss, then yoy can issue a stop order and ... do what? Get a new set of fingers?
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
Should have kept your cash in your house.
[-]rohansamal [score hidden]
You can spend money. There is no limit on spending money. There's a limit to how much of it you can convert into cash.
You can always point out something against the move, cause there are many. But if you fail to understand that such a drastic step was needed then I don't think you will
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[-]surgical_strikes [score hidden] - [removed]
I said the same thing to a bunch of people. They just called me anti-national, deshdrohi, MC etc
[-]faltu_account 1 points - [removed]
Then you can keep your money with yourself.There is no rule which is forcing you to deposit your money with incompetent bankers.
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[-]Kushalmehta08 0 points (1 children)
Sometimes some fucking illiterate people are made the centre stage of every fucking problem ! There isnt only Paytm... Just because some retards/illiterate cant use bank this means the whole fucking India cant use the bank ...
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[-]Kushalmehta08 -4 points (4 children)
The real problem here is the brain.. It's just the brain playing with you .. On general basis one would never take ₹24000 per week . But just the RBI set the limit our brain thinks that our money is taken away . BRAIN GAMES ;)
[-]awkward_pause_ 21 points (2 children)
What games? There is actually a fucking limit to how much you can withdraw. Earlier you could withdraw as much as you want if not by ATM then by the branch.
This is a game though. The government has taken away your money and put it in banks for now. Tomorrow they will completely restrict gold holdings - you'll be forced to keep all your money in banks. That's what coming. Imagine the kind of control this move has given the government.
You are underestimating the impact and repercussions of the move.
[-]parthjoshi09 1 points (1 children)
But it still is YOUR money. Govt won't stop you if you want to buy a laptop online worth more than 1lac. Govt wont stop you if you want to make Rtgs transfer to pay your college fees. It still is YOUR money.
[-]global_decoherence [score hidden]
But now you cannot move around freely because you never know whether the place you are going will have digital modes of payments or atms with cash facility. I personally had a really bad experience travelling.
[-]Kushalmehta08 -4 points (4 children)
₹24000 is a lot per week... They are politicians.. After an extent they will still go behind votes .. The measures you said would be against the mindset of political parties
[-]awkward_pause_ 11 points (1 children)
Shit dude. You are in favor of capital limits on your own property. You are giving up a right on how to use your own property. Instead of making the process more transparent, you are advocating a measure which should not and does not have a place in a democratic country. Who are you or them to decide that 24k is a lot for me? Whether I keep my money under my mattress or a bank does not matter as long as it is legit and tax paid.
This sets a very dangerous precedent and you never know how much a future government or a leader can abuse this. If history has any weight, more often than not, power will be abused if not sooner than later.
I did not understand what you said about 'mindset of political parties'. Do you mean to say removal of limits is against their mindsets? If yes, god save us since you are not even asking and raising up a voice against this as you fail to understand the future implications.
“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” - Benjamin Franklin
[-]Kushalmehta08 0 points (1 children)
As if the limits are forever !! Its temporary ! I said staying with the limits is against their mindset !! They want to always remian in power .. they cant keep the limits forever
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden]
It is difficult to believe the government given their track record.
[-]wanderingmind 7 points (2 children)
Whether it is a lot per week is not for you to decide. I may want to spend 50k at one shot in cash. Maybe more. There are any number of reasons where it is needed. I may have other options. But this measure has taken away my choice.
Now taking away choice is something that does not matter much to those who never cared much about choice anyway.
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points (1 children)
Whether it is a lot per week is not for you to decide. I may want to spend 50k at one shot in cash. Maybe more. There are any number of reasons where it is needed. I may have other options. But this measure has taken away my choice.
There are always withdrawal limits tho. If you always wanted 24x7 cash then why is your money still in the bank? Were you okay with limiting your freedom previously?
[-]wanderingmind 1 points (1 children)
There are always withdrawal limits tho.
Yes, true.
If you always wanted 24x7 cash then why is your money still in the bank?
None of anyone's business. I keep my money in the bank because I feel like it. If I want it with me, that's my business too.
Were you okay with limiting your freedom previously?
No. I have faced problems with even that. However, the amount I could withdraw in one day was quite high (I remember withdrawing 80,000 once) and it would suffice, in almost all cases. However, there were times when I needed more in cash which I could do by visiting the ATM one evening and then next day morning with some planning. It becomes less of a problem then.
Also, a limit that has been around, you get used to over the years. A new, smaller limit, is reducing my already limited freedom. Admittedly, larger limit means I face the problem perhaps once a year. A smaller limit means its in my face.
Every time I travel, I have approx 20k with me. Which I could pick up on the way to the airport, or the first ATM on the way if by car. Yes, it has been a major inconvenience. Cash is security in India in everyday life. I wish it weren't so, but it is.
[-]knowsalotofthings 3 points (1 children)
None of anyone's business. I keep my money in the bank because I feel like it. If I want it with me, that's my business too.
Sure.
Also, a limit that has been around, you get used to over the years. A new, smaller limit, is reducing my already limited freedom. Admittedly, larger limit means I face the problem perhaps once a year. A smaller limit means its in my face.
Sure.
So the problem still isn't the limits, it's the tiny limits that's the problem and I understand that. And I am with you that it's an inconvenience and it's stupid. But where I disagree with you is what this post states, that it takes away our freedom. Our freedom was already taken away if you go by the logic presented.
I personally don't understand what good DeMo did but it happened and we have to deal with it now. The limits are stupid but they are there for the reason that cash is scare and everyone needs it. If ATM were allowed to dispose more cash at one time, even fewer people will get cash. More cash, but fewer people.
DeMo is something that has caused inconvenience to most of us. However, it doesn't take away our freedom. If you're railing against DeMo, rail for the right reasons. While I understand your point, that's my nuanced stance on this entire thing.
[-]wanderingmind 1 points
I am undecided about demonetisation too. It might turn out to be good in the long term, it might not. I am perfectly fine with those who defend it or oppose it. I doubt anyone, even Modi, knows its real impact.
However. Freedom is never absolute, and everyone does not always run up against its limits. It was curtailed earlier, now its curtailed more. The earlier curtailment affected me rarely. The new one is a much bigger irritant, that's all. The earlier limit took away some freedom, the new limit takes away a lot more. I am railing against the new limits.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon 1 points (1 children)
Now taking away choice is something that does not matter much to those who never cared much about choice anyway.
Does any law compels gov to provide you with the amount of cash you want ?
[-]wanderingmind [score hidden] (1 children)
You are deliberately being obtuse, but anyway.
I would like a few billion in cash. No law compels them to give that to me.
I would like access to my own money when I please. This is the basic contract between customers and banks. They are holding my money in trust. There are I am sure, very specific laws that manage that. However, the government has the power to curtail my right to access my money, essentially, modify those laws. They can introduce laws, notifications, ordinances that restrict my access. Like in the case of demonetisation and cash withdrawal restrictions. That precisely is what I am protesting against.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden] (1 children)
And you ignoring the fact that they are not limiting access to your money. You can still use other banking systems to make your transactions.
[-]wanderingmind [score hidden] (1 children)
Again, you get exactly what I am saying, I suspect. Answered already in the thread.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden] (1 children)
I'm not telling you that you can't protest(feel free to vote). I'm saying that they never limited access to your money. What they limited was your access to cash. There's a difference.
[-]wanderingmind [score hidden]
Wait, I can protest in many ways, not just via voting! This is one of those ways.
I started the discussion with talking about cash. In the last comment, what I meant was 'cash' and not money. Thought it was understood but perhaps not clear enough. Yes they have limited access to cash, and that is what I am complaining about. Not about demonetisation per se.
[-]anuragsins1991 2 points (2 children)
It is not a question of is it a lot per week or not, it is about limits.
Why will people trust in banking institutions if you are going to put limits on how much you can withdraw ? I may want 1 lakh at once, why should I not be able to get it ?
Because 24k is enough for a week to spend ? Who cares if I want it for spending or buying door knobs in bulk ? My money, I should be able to take it anytime, that is what Banks are for,
If you are going put limits on banks, people won' trust banks. There you just pushed people back to cash, No bank, no Modi can limit how much I can spend in a day in Cash.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden] (2 children)
You think this will erode trust in banks? If so, you are naive.
People deposit money in bank because it earns interest there, it remains safe and banks allow them different schemes and methods(online/debit cards/etc.) to spend there money.
Also, gov can limit it to 12000 and no law can stop them.
[-]anuragsins1991 [score hidden] (1 children)
Yeah I hope they make it 5k monthly too, no law stops them.
Lets see how it promotes more cashless. if you take people's money and don't allow them to take it back when they want it. They wont deposit it in the first place, atleast I wouldn't. That shitty interest rate, they can stick it up themselves.
If people trusted banks that much, they won't be keeping any cash with them, would they ? About those schemes like cards, yeah good luck paying extra 2% everywhere.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
When people won't have cash, surely they will try other means to transact.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden]
Good luck getting any interest now.
Money with banks is not safe per se. They can fail and your money is gone. It has happened.
It will obviously dent some reputation of the banks. Come on, you can't really trust the banks after witnessing how much power they have of limiting your withdrawals and even your deposits by simple notifications. Banks are custodians of my money and they are limiting my usage as how I want it - why would I trust them?
Either you are too generous with trust or you trust the banks are epitome of perfection in this world and won't do anything wrong or the government won't misuse these powers ever.
[-]Kushalmehta08 0 points (1 children)
No one knows the real reason behind limits ! They arent taking away your money .. they are just taking away cash from you ... You can write them cheques if you want to buy door knobs in bulk ..
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden] (1 children)
Cash in hand and money in the banks are very different. There are various advantages and disadvantages to each.
You can not compare the two and both needs to be present without such reasonable restrictions - not like what is presently in action.
[-]Kushalmehta08 [score hidden]
Hmm.. What more can we do ? India has elected the government lets wait and watch .. That's the least we could do :)
[-]110011001100 1 points (2 children)
Even if 24k is more than enough, the govt should remove the queues required for withdrawing money.. maybe 24k is enough, but spending 2 hours in a queue at 9am every day for a week is way too much time
[-]awkward_pause_ 3 points (1 children)
No sir, who are they to decide them limits? They need to be removed completely.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden] (1 children)
Not really.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden] (1 children)
Why?
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden] (1 children)
I'm just saying that they have the power to decide those limits.
[-]awkward_pause_ [score hidden] (1 children)
And I'm asking the reason. Surely I can do that right?
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
Yes, you can.
Reason is simple. Gov wants less cash in circulation.
[-]Kushalmehta08 1 points (2 children)
Wtf ! You think govt plants the queues .. it a country of 1.3 billion people .. queues are always going to be there ! Here i can didnt even stand for 10 min in the queue
[-]110011001100 0 points (1 children)
These queues were planned by the govt. If they had stockpiled new notes worth 80-90% of the demonetized currency and released them efficiently throughout the country, queues would have been negligible compared to the current situation
[-]Kushalmehta08 2 points (1 children)
with the limits queues were to stay ! Without the limit and as said by u the condition.. Demonatization would be useless
[-]110011001100 0 points (1 children)
The whole point of demonetization was to force large sums of cash that were sitting in large notes to be processed through the banking system i.e. deposited and withdrawn. Having sufficient supply of new notes wouldnt hurt that
[-]Kushalmehta08 2 points
Yeah that couldnt have hurt !! But our printing press aren't that efficient
[-]purrplexer [score hidden]
There were NO queues before ATMs before 8/11. I have NEVER had to stand behind more than 3 or 4 people AT MOST before this started. And mostly, the queue length used to be ZERO. 10 minutes?
[-]BooMrHeinekin 2 points (1 children)
I have taken out more than the current limit in one day though. When I travel it's safer and convenient to have 10k on me. Primary reason being I don't book every ticket in advance or every hotel room in advance. Similarly for a friend's dad who has to make multiple trips to small towns because he works with farmers. Sometimes he has to even have 20k on him because he will purchase things for the farmers. Now he has to make withdrawals over 3/4 days to achieve this. How is that fair?
[-]Kushalmehta08 0 points
Not fair 😕
[-][deleted] 1 points (2 children)
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[-]Mad-o-wat 2 points
Find caterers who accept cheques. Simple. Itna load mat le.
[-]Kushalmehta08 2 points (1 children)
They cant shove Paytm up their asses ... but cheque and bank transfer is always there to shove up their asses ... Its their mistake that dont want to live up to 21st century and use bank ... Fuck Paytm... But why fuck banks ?
[-][deleted] -1 points (2 children)
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[-]Kushalmehta08 2 points (2 children)
Yeah !! Why arent the daily wage earners opening a bank acc .. its their problem that they only want cash ...
[-][deleted] [score hidden] (1 children)
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[-]Kushalmehta08 [score hidden]
Sure .. You go and take part in riots ... West Bengal is filled with retards
[-]purrplexer [score hidden]
Try doing that here in Gurgaon sir, unless you Aadhar is local the banks refuse.
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon 1 points (1 children)
Government is not under any obligation to provide you with cash.
[-][deleted] [score hidden] (1 children)
[deleted]
[-]gilgamesh-of-babylon [score hidden]
If you can't argue, don't comment.
[-]110011001100 1 points (1 children)
I have at times withdrawn 10k at an ATM, because <reasons>, now Modi says that I cannot do that without standing in queues for 3-4 hours
Why ?
[-]Kushalmehta08 1 points
Cause you are choosing the wrong ATM :P .. but seriously idk
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