Discussion: Comparing British and German industries 1910-1940

How would you compare British and German industry between 1910 and 1940?

From what I have read, I conclude that:

Overall, Germany was far stronger in most engineering industries, as well as most Second Industrial Revolution industries (new industries).

- This is especially the case for high-tech sectors, such as chemical (NO CONTEST), pharmaceutical and electrical and electronic goods, as well as precision industries optical and scientific instruments. German firms (and American) dominated British electrical industry.

- The German also outperformed British in metallurgy, steel and modern machinery (or 2nd Industrial Revolution machinery) production. German steel and metal industry also adopted better techniques.

- Germany was ahead in electrification in factories and lighting, especially FAR AHEAD before world war 1. Reading about the electrification of London before 1914 made me laugh.

- Germany also outperform in things like cypher machine, typewriter or calculator... (office machinery)


Britain, on the other hand, performed better in low-tech, First Industrial Revolution sectors.
- In heavy industries, British was stronger in shipbuilding and general marine engineering industries, textile machinery, all of them were First Industrial Revolutions sectors that dated from Victorian Era.

- About this, I am not sure, but before the First World War, British factories stuck with steam-powered machinery while firms in other industrial countries like US, Germany or Sweden have move on to electric power.

- Britain also did better in light and consumer good industries like clothing, textile, footwear, food and beverage but these sectors did nothing to improve their national security and power.

- Rayon, aircraft and motor car industries were the only ''new'' industries that British did better than German, although German aircraft sector surged ahead in 1935-1939 thanks to Nazi rearmament orders. Of course before world war 1, motor car sector was negligible in both countries.

Other sectors like glass, explosives, construction materials, I have no information but I guess that Germany outperformed Britain.

In organisation, German firms were better. They was able to form large corporates that capable of carrying out large-scale investments and R&D and taking advantage of economies of scale. British industry was still dominated by small family businesses (This is a thing of Victorian Dark Age).


In technical eduction, Germany before Nazi, no contest. Most sources, except for Edgerton, noted that British society at that time was too anti-tech, anti-science.

These are quite British bashing but they are true

 

I'm not aware of the term light year as a quantative term in industrial comparisons and without that it's hard to see what you are talking about. Both countries had areas of comparative economic advantage. As the U.K. Industrialised before Germany obviously it's industry benefited more from that historical investment. Perhaps you could define what you mean by first industrial revolution.

The point about Steel making is that it has to satisfy a market the US and German steel industries serviced their growing railway investment and those markets were closed to the U.K. American tariffs were 32 per cent in the 1900's there is no obvious point in growing a steel industry without a market, unless like Natzi Germany and to a lesser extent imperial Germany you are planning for a war.

There's a nice document here about overseas investment and then think about what that meant for the industrial capacity of the two nations in a total war which I presume you are talking about.

Cheers Hipper


https://www.ukessays.com/essays/his...tment-between-1850-and-1914-history-essay.php

 

Light year ahead in new, modern industries here means:
Before the first world war, Germany dominated optical industry, and optical glass was crucial for the war. 60% of British opticals in 1914 were imported from Germany.

German firms accounted for 90% of world syntheric dye supply before 1914.

Most of advanced drugs like aspirim came from Germany.

Steel? Naval arm race needs steel, and 10% of british shipbuilding steel was imported.

First industrial revolution was about steam engine. Second industrial revolution was about electricity and related machinery and equipment, as well as combustion engine, which were the future. British continued to produce steam machinery while Germany had moved on to electric powered machine.

If you have comparative advantage in low-tech sectors, your term of trade will suffer, and you will lose ground. Besides, if your industry gears toward low tech industries, you cannot push your technological frontier towards.

 

Lightyear is a distance. Not a time measurement.

 

So, far ahead, ok?

 

excellent.

You are right btw, the Germans were ahead on a lot of industry. Though on steel they might be more equals, British steel production was top notch. They needed it for the Navy afterall.

Also, to be fair in comparison what the British were able to lift off in terms of industry(especially heavy industry) on their much smaller island compared to the Germans on vast open terrain(twice the room), the British actually outdid them, relatively speaking.

 

As fascinating as all this is, can I ask what the purpose of this thread is?

You're not inviting discussion; nor exploring if, and how, such things could be altered in an ATL; nor how these facts themselves could, with a suitable PoD, cause changes to OTL.

This is just a list of things that you've discovered, or inferred. It's fairly interesting, but why is it here?

 

It's a continuation of the What if the War began in 1944 thread that kinda devolves into German vs British industrial capability debates.

 

Well, move to a more suitable thread

 

Although i'm honestly interested in not only British capabilites,but French and Soviets too in a delayed WW2.

 

If their level of industrial technology are the same, then what you said is true. But German had superior industrial technology.

 

I'd be interested, in the light of superior German industrial technology, you think the Germans meant by Materialschlacht ?

And why the Germans thought they were losing it?

Cheers Hipper

 

When you realize that you can crush each of them in a 1 vs 1 fight, but you cannot beat all of them at the same time.

 

And when I am talking about industrial technology, or industrial methods, it focuses more about economic and industry rather than military.

 

So what changed between 1914 when the Germans discounted, British participation in World War One and 1916 when the Germans realised they were loosing the war of material?

 

They were blockaded from materials from other countries. If thanks to their superior tech, they was able to invent Fritz Haber process, which saved them from early defeat.

 

I'm talking about economics as well

for all the alleged superiority of German industry they could not out produce Great Britain who could source goods and raw material from all over the globe and pay for them on credit.

That financial engineering outproduced Germany, along with a certain ruthless focus on outdated first industrial revolution products (ships) which made sure that Germany could not interupt the flow of goods. Add that to an outdated mobilisation strategy and an inefficient farming sector, Germany was doomed in any war with the U.K. Unless they could knock out all her allies on the continent.

Cheers Hipper

 

That was true in 1914 and obvious from the start of the war, German battleship ratios were only going to get worse against the UK but there was no thought of taking the offensive against the RN rather the thought was to preserve expensive battleships.

 

I mentioned that British was superior in shipbuilding, but German machine tool (crucial, you need machine tool to produce weapons), steel (main input used to make weapons), chemical, land armament, electrical equipment (important, they included things like telephone and radio) or precision instruments (optics) industries were superior. These industries reinforced their land army (more than navy) and helped them survived longer than expected. German had to maintain a big land army from the start, so they must cut down naval buildup. If German industry was the same as Britain, then it could not survive pass 1917.

 

hmm so the British built a big navy in peace time, kept building it in wartime and built a big army in the middle of a war,

While the Germans built a big army in peacetime and a smaller navy but. were not able to continue expanding their navy in war.

From that you conclude that Germany had a superior industrial capacity?

It sounds like the capacity for the British to build a big army in WW1 was the decisive factor,