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TIL AI doesn't cheat. (self.CrusaderKings)

homemadepandashitty heir が 投稿

because of u/exdeath1987 claiming that AIs cheat, I did experiment, and he was just wrong.

I started as king of Leon, and look at my army size and galicia's army size

that number doesn't lie when I go to war.

then I resigned, and started as king of galicia. this is galicia's army, while leon's army.

again, number doesn't lie.

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[–]cyberkhanGenghismagne 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The only cheat AI uses is no fog of war.

[–]OfficerN1pplesSPQR 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (6子コメント)

And its so annoying they can see me coming months before I arrive, while they just pop up next to my army the next day like "surprise motherf*cker"

[–]FalcoLXLeon 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You can cheat it in a way by looking at the enemy commanders and see which province they are in like "leading troops in Bourgogne"

[–]Major_Richard_Sharpe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I never really considered that as a 'cheat' though. I just rationalised it in my head as spies or scouts keeping a tab on where they are currently on the continent.

[–]just_a_pyro 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Also every viking of the world sets out to raid your land as soon as you leave with the army

[–]alexfiat 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Or the 8th blah blah rebels strike when you're at war.

[–]Panicsferd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

that or in my case - while I'm in the middle of a subjucating war another pagan ruler decides to try and subjugate me and then I'm fighting two fronts really and what normally happens I subjucate the person I was originally subjucating, but then have hard time defending against the other subjucation.

[–]alexfiat [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ugh been down that road before. Subjugation circle jerk of life.

[–]LeivveNorthern Rome 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They can also lower their armies outside their territory without suffering loses.

[–]PlasmaBurnzSicily 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All we have is our council or really just the spymaster.

[–]keplar 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you. That thread was extremely frustrating - one person repeatedly screaming "there is no other possible explanation!" In the face of multiple more experienced players providing multiple other possible explanations.

Troop counts are a complicated thing to calculate to the man, but at a basic level, they are quite straightforward. The big things that effect levy counts:

  • Your martial ability.

  • Whether and where you place your marshal to increase levies, and his martial ability if you do.

  • Buildings in holdings from which you or your vassals draw troops.

  • Your relationships with your vassals.

  • Your vassals' martial abilities, and the use and abilities of their marshals.

  • The location of your capital relative to your vassals.

That's all just for levies - retinues, mercenaries, and event/intrigue option troops are a bonus.

[–]datssyck 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, the most odvious scenario. Checked enemy troop size, decided you were strong enough, declare war, enemy gets opinion boost with all vassals, enemy troop count goes up.

[–]SaelonLeon 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Wow, I didn't think people seriously thought AI cheated in this game. I thought it was just a meme people said.

[–]LeivveNorthern Rome 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (3子コメント)

In EU4 they mechanically cheat a lot, so people assumed that applied to CK2 too.

[–]Esumark 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Zone of control is just a suggestion for the AI.

[–]LeivveNorthern Rome 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"Can you at least pretend you have naval supply limits?"

[–]lightgiverHolland 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Flashbacks of the British parking 62 ships including 20+ warships in the strait of malaaca for 3 years when their closest port was South Africa and suffering no attrition.

[–]LupusetVulpusThe Kentish White Horse 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Pretty much in any game whereby you hear a player declaring the Declarations of 'Cheating AI' will immediately make me believe the player to be a fourteen year old child who either mismanaged something or experienced their first loss.

Put simply, it is easier to blame a faceless entity than blame your own shortcomings.

[–]doktarr 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

To be fair, there are lots and lots of games where the AI does "cheat", either in a straightforward way by getting bonuses, or by having a different set of rules for how AI entities interact with the game mechanics. CK2 is just, for the most part, not one of those games.

[–]GogglesMcgum 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

The Civilisation series being an example of obviously cheating AI

[–]lightgiverHolland 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I remember feeling so betrayed when I realized that the AI doesn't get better on harder difficulty but got just got more cheats to make up for it not getting smarter.

I remember learning latter on that if they did make the AI smarter by doing more checks per turn to make sure it is playing optionally it would of ground the game to a halt in the late game.

[–]doktarr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not just that. It's also just very hard to make an AI that takes all the right things into account. They could do a lot more checks and the AI would still, at times, behave illogically.

[–]doktarr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, although you can play at a lower difficulty with no production bonuses.

[–]PangurtheWhite -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You'd be a lot happier if you weren't so judgmental over a stupid video game.

[–]LupusetVulpusThe Kentish White Horse 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Which, correct me if I'm wrong, you have just done in your reply?

[–]cykikvisageHouse Ovidius 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You both are being childish on this one. You made a great point save for the 14 year old part. You could have just said younger people or left age out entirely. The guy that replied you has no merit to his post and is only trying to be edgy hoping people will come to his defense for a dopamine shot.

[–]Fim0458 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (12子コメント)

/u/exdeath1987 Any response?

[–]SuitableDragonfly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Gwynedd is out of diplomatic range as Galicia? It's only a few sea tiles, isn't it?

[–]c4r151Y Ddraig Goch 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Gwynedd is out of diplomatic range as Galicia?

It isn't. The guy might be confusing "Out of diplomatic range" for "Won't accept an alliance/non-aggression pact"

[–]SuitableDragonfly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm still not sure why they wouldn't accept a NAP or alliance. It's not like they have claims on Galicia and you're an independent king.

[–]c4r151Y Ddraig Goch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

From having a quick play around as the king of Galicia at the 1066 start date the Petty King of Gwynedd won't let me marry any of his daughter due to "political concerns", although I can make it happen by sending him a gift and buying a favour from him.

I suspect the guy is very new to the game and dosen't know how to use all the tools at his disposal.

[–]SuitableDragonfly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I don't know what "political concerns" means most of the time. Tried to renew a NAP with the king of England recently and he said no because of political concerns but a couple of years later there were no more political concerns. Nothing of note had really changed. I dunno.

[–]remcor1Isle of Aliens 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think political concerns in that case meant that he wants someone close to ally? And after a few years he probably has or just stopped trying to get close allies and just wants to ally anybody strong or a bit further away? To be honest we can never know with such a vague description.

[–]SuitableDragonfly [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It wasn't like it was a choice between a NAP with me or a NAP with someone else - my brother was already betrothed to his sister. He doesn't get her back just because he doesn't renew the NAP.

[–]CheetuhmanDandolo dindu nuffin 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

AND THEY SPELL D1545T3R FOR YOU.

[–]Panicsferd 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had similar issues myself where it seemed that the ai was cheating or something but I think what it was is I didn't account for his vassels's armies coming to his aid.

It was the charlemange start and I was sigurd ring in sweden and I had a total army size of 1.8k and the sjalland king only had like 1.2k troops and I was able to call in my other sweden allies to help me in a subjecation war but to had over 2.5-3k troops against his 1.2k and I was able to defeat his troops and take land - but then out of no where he managed to get another 2k men and I checked before hand he didn't have enough prestige to get the war party thing and then I managed to lose all my troops and then decided to restart since didn't want to lose or do a white peace.

So I'm not entirely sure where the king of sjalland managed to get an extra 1-1.5k men that seemed to come out of no where when I had like 70-80% war score?

[–]PokewhoIrish Jews 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If they're defending against a foe of another religion, then (pagan?) tribals can raise 2500 men for 200 piety. Either that, or mercs?

[–]KouropalatesThe Lusty Palace Eunuch 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm pretty sure it cheats in ways. Like their raiders riding through counties unhostile then suddenly 'poof!' they turn hostile halfway through your lands. Never been able to do that myself.

[–]Spebnag 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If your raiders get defeated in battle you lose the ability to raid the specific realm for 5 years, thus turning you non-hostile to them, making you not stand out while crossing their provinces.

[–]stoobahMiðgarðr 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

An army set to raid also won't actually become hostile and start taking loot until they stop in a province. I have a feeling that what you've seen are AI adventurer bands who are trying to walk somewhere through your land, stop for a second when they change their mind, then become hostile because they technically were stationary in your land for a moment.

[–]KouropalatesThe Lusty Palace Eunuch -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So explain to me why exactly my raiders are hostile to the ruler of a land just for passing through. I'm not contesting you, I'm genuinely curious because when I've tried to use raiders, I've always felt like the AI had advantages, but I don't actually understand the finetune parts of how raiding works.