全 61 件のコメント

[–]AsSoftAsThunder36/F 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (18子コメント)

You were unsatisfied posting this bullshit in just one place?

[–]mistcalGenderfluid 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're STILL harping on this? Even if you can't find any formal studies about non binary people it doesn't mean we don't exist. Trans people existed before there were formal studies on them. Gravity existed before it was scientifically described.

What in the world set you on a ridiculous crusade against non binary identities? What do you imagine you can accomplish here?

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

"You're STILL harping on this?"

In previous posts I was called a bigot for not having any evidence. Now I provide evidence, and you attack me for it?

"Even if you can't find any formal studies about non binary people it doesn't mean we don't exist."

As I've said over and over and over again, I'm not saying non-binary PEOPLE don't exist. I'm well aware that you exist, you're responding to me.

I'm saying:

  1. There is no scientific evidence to support the existence of non-binary IDENTITIES in the same way that there is scientific evidence that supports the existence of transsexualism. By virtue of this, non-binary identities should not be given the same scientific credibility of transgender/transsexual identities.
  2. Non-binary people can use non-binary pronouns to refer to themselves to their hearts' content. They should not be allowed to force others to refer to them with special pronouns.

"What in the world set you on a ridiculous crusade against non binary identities?"

If you pay attention to the news, the media, people online, and even yourself, you'll notice that anyone who disagrees with non-binary people are accused of being bigots, transphobic, or oppressive. I disagree with that, and so I'm trying to educate people.

"What do you imagine you can accomplish here?"

I hope to facilitate an open dialogue between all members of society, transgender, non-binary and cisgender alike, and to facilitate education rather than name-calling.

[–]FindingAmberMaeMTF 9/2016 HRT 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

There was a point in time where there were no studies done on trans people. People back then said we don't exist, and it turns out we do.

Fund the studies and report back to us once you've concluded exactly the differences between NB brains and trans/cis brains.

Until then, please just stop.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

"People back then said we don't exist, and it turns out we do."

How did this transformation of opinion occur? Through scientific evidence.

Non-binary identities haven't got the same scientific evidence supporting them, therefore they shouldn't be accepted the same way as transgender identities.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

they shouldn't be accepted the same way as transgender identities.

They are transgender identities, period. They've been accepted as such for a long time now. All you're doing here arguing against us at this point is making yourself look childish and insecure.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

"They are transgender identities, period."

Who told you this? Where did you read this? What scientific study proved this?

You have NO EVIDENCE. You cannot just make claims without evidence. Have you ever stepped foot in a science classroom?

"They've been accepted as such for a long time now."

Again, you have no evidence to support this. Additionally, homosexuals were persecuted "for such a long time". Does that make it okay or acceptable?

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

TIL I don't exist because nobody has studied me yet.

Lol, seriously. You're trying to argue to someone who is non binary that they don't exist. You don't see the absurdity of that?

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

As I've repeated over and over and over, I'm not saying non-binary people don't exist, you're responding to me.

I'm beginning to think you're the troll and I'm being played? I mean just a few comments ago, I said the exact same thing: "As I've said over and over and over again, I'm not saying non-binary PEOPLE don't exist. I'm well aware that you exist, you're responding to me."

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh? You stated exactly as much in your last thread before the mods had to step in and clean up your enbyphobic mess.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, I've stated it over and over.

[–]veloci-nap-tor28/F/UK | HRT 12 FEB 12 [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

What effect does there being a high or low level of testosterone have on the development when compared to none at all (or at least so little that the brain develops typical to that of a female?)

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

It's explained in the post.

High testosterone leads to development of male brain.

Low testosterone leads to development of female brain.

There is (thus far) no scientific evidence that supports any other genders.

[–]veloci-nap-tor28/F/UK | HRT 12 FEB 12 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

What if there was a medium level?

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

I'm not a neuroscientist. I would assume if there was a medium level, you'd have a feminine male or a masculine female. Or maybe someone who is transgender, male-to-female or female-to-male.

To claim that a "medium level" or testosterone leads to an entirely new gender outside of male or female (despite the fact that testosterone leads to a male brain and lack of testosterone leads to a female brain), a claim like this requires specific scientific evidence. If you can't provide scientific evidence, then you're just speculating.

[–]veloci-nap-tor28/F/UK | HRT 12 FEB 12 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I thought non-binary was between male and female, rather than "outside" of them?

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It can be either. Either way it wouldn't contradict the available evidence. If you were caught near the middle it could reasonably manifest many different ways. The relevant segments of the brain don't exist in a vacuum, after all. They're nestled in a massively complex brain that could interpret being stuck in the middle any number of different ways.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Binary = two; male or female.

Non-binary = outside of the binary.

[–]veloci-nap-tor28/F/UK | HRT 12 FEB 12 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But 0.5 is between 0 and 1

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I would assume if there was a medium level, you'd have a feminine male or a masculine female. Or maybe someone who is transgender, male-to-female or female-to-male.

you're just speculating.

So it's only speculation when somebody else does it?

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's speculation if you make a claim without any scientific evidence, yes.

[–]shaedofblueAgender [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

None of this implies anything that you say it does. The studies you reference were not attempting to analyze whether there is any connection between brain development and nonbinary gender identity either because they didn't think to ask the question or did not have a large enough sample size.

The first study compares sexual differentiation of the genitals to sexual development of the brain. We know that sexual differentiation of the genitals can result in numerous different forms of androgynous genitals, despite this study talking about genitals differentiating in a male or female direction based on the hormones present. It would be ridiculous to assume differently of the much more complex organ system located higher up.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

"The studies you reference were not attempting to analyze whether there is any connection between brain development and nonbinary gender identity"

That's because scientifically, there is no evidence of non-binary identities. Therefore the studies only address the genders that ARE scientifically observable: male or female.

If you know of a scientific study that discusses and proves that non-binary identities exist and are scientifically observable, please, show me. If you have a counterargument with evidence, show it.

So far all anyone here has done is attack either me, or my evidence. But nobody has provided a counterargument with their own evidence.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

TIL that my existence is not proof that I exist.

[–]DeadliestTulipMtF, 38 (Pre-Op HRT Since 10-19-2016) [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Dude you're giving science a bad name. You're the reason why people don't like science.

Science was never out to prove anything. Science can't prove or unprove anything. It only make suggestions based on science using the scientific method.

Your "sources" don't prove or disprove your narrative.

What it does do is make suggestions that trans people are real and that it's programmed in us.

No one knows what non-binary is but we know that it's out there. Just like we don't know what dark matter one is what dark energy is but we know it's out there.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

"Science can't prove or unprove anything."

So gravity doesn't exist? The Earth isn't actually a sphere? The Earth doesn't rotate around the Sun? There's no such thing as evolution?

Generally when there is overwhelming scientific evidence in support of something, we decide that the science must be correct. There is no scientific evidence in support of non-binary identities. If there is, show it to me, and I'll admit that I'm wrong.

"No one knows what non-binary is but we know that it's out there."

"No one knows what God is but we know that God is out there."

You can make this claim all you like, billions of people make it every day. The difference is, what you're describing is a BELIEF. Not the truth. You can believe in non-binary identities all you like. But you cannot claim that you're correct and I'm wrong, if you haven't got any scientific evidence to prove it. Understand?

[–]DeadliestTulipMtF, 38 (Pre-Op HRT Since 10-19-2016) [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Science makes suggestions on what gravity is. It's called a theory. A stack of evidence to suggest what it is.

Science doesn't prove or disprove anything. If you don't get that then you are not literate in science enough to teach it let alone go around preaching your narative like a religious fanatic.

Science is ever evolving and changing as new evidence presents itself. So it cannot prove or disprove anything.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"It's called a theory. A stack of evidence to suggest it's real."

Yes, so I'll ask again: where is the stack of evidence that suggests non-binary identities are real?

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

you cannot claim that you're correct and I'm wrong, if you haven't got any scientific evidence to prove it

Nah. Pretty sure we can still make that claim. You've shown no evidence at all in support of your points and are basically calling millions of people delusional with no evidence to support that assertion.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Reread the scientific studies in my original post.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have. I've read them before you even brought them up in any of your comments tonight. Like multiple people here have told you, they don't do anything to support your "positive assertion", as you seem to like it phrased, that non binary people the world over are simply making the whole thing up.

[–]sics2014Ben | Gay 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (8子コメント)

How many non-binary people actually ask people to use special pronouns like xe, etc? Outside of Tumblr, I haven't really seen that. It seems that "they" is the most common and popular option, and even that has historical and grammatical precedent for being singular usage. No one is asking to change the language; it's already changed.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Even if they do use an alternative pronoun there's no reason to disrespect their wishes. It's not exactly hard to do.

[–]capitalH-E-L-P15, FtM, USA 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not exactly hard to do.

I disagree. Someone asking for "xe/xir/xirself" or whatever is a lot harder to incorporate into your language than someone asking for "she/her/herself" or "he/him/himself"

[–]throwaway372717831936yo, amab, srs 2005 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one is asking to change the language; it's already changed.

But not changed enough, according to some, who want to change the language to suit them. Kind of like if I started using the word "snagglefart" to refer to a citrus fruit that was oblong shaped yellow in colour fruit with a sour taste because I dislike the word "lemon"

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

"Outside of Tumblr, I haven't really seen that."

I'm glad, my entire motivation for posting these studies is to ensure those special (unscientific) pronouns stay in Tumblr. That's all.

People can use "they". In real life or online, if someone asked me to refer to them as "they", I would do it. However, the point I keep trying to make is, there is no scientific evidence behind non-binary identities and nobody has the authority to dictate what language other people use.

Non-binary people can use "they". But if someone else doesn't use "they", and the non-binary person calls them a bigot, transphobic or oppressive, I think the non-binary person is overstepping their bounds and should be challenged for using insults to defend themselves rather than scientific evidence.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

For somebody that makes complaints about freedom of speech you're awfully fast to police what pronouns people use.

[–]potatochocolateMtF 21 | HRT since 19/12/16[S] -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

As I've stated many times over, people can use whatever pronouns they want for themselves. They cannot tell OTHER people what pronouns to use.

I'm trying to stop the policing of pronouns. I'm also trying to stop the spread of misinformation. So far no one has provided a counterargument or any scientific evidence. All anyone has done it criticise me, call me names like bigot or transphobic, etc.

[–]mistcalGenderfluid [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

All anyone has done it criticise me, call me names like bigot or transphobic, etc.

Oh gee I wonder why.

[–]astriarch18 | MtF, apparently | Audrey [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

As I've stated many times over, people can use whatever pronouns they want for themselves. They cannot tell OTHER people what pronouns to use.

I'm sorry, what? The pronouns for yourself are "I" and "me". The entire purpose of alternate pronouns is for other people to use.

[–]extrinsic1999 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Maybe he can think us out of existence.