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articleBitcoin Surges Above $900 on Geopolitical Risks, Fed Tightening (bloomberg.com)

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[–]Trophonix 362 ポイント363 ポイント  (30子コメント)

Fuck, knew I should've bought them a week ago

  • everyone who has ever checked Bitcoin prices

[–]Plaski [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

In the history of Bitcoin, there has only been 11 days that the market was higher than it is today. So if you bought on any of the days since 2008, other than those 11 days, you are profiting.

[–]ColorsMayInTimeFade [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

Yeah but how much are you profiting vs. sticking your money in an old fashioned investment account?

[–]spitfiresms [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

40% average annual return isn't too bad imo.

[–]Plaski [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Exactly, not arguing that at all. Average of 3-5% per year for traditional. Those 11 days were back in 2013. So 3 years of max 5% gain on average put you up X amount. If you bought at Christmas last year for BTC, you are up 100%.

It can be spun both ways, just like any other investment

[–]HellHathNoFlurry [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I've seen over 50% return over the past three years. I bought at various times, some high some low, and held through the long decline in 2014.

[–]WolfOfSesameSt [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Dollar cost averaging works so long as the investment itself doesn't become worthless.

A quality currency is 'safer' over the long haul than any security for this reason, well generally speaking - the Euro will become worthless if the EU dissolves and that's a scary thought.

Also bear in mind junk currencies like the peso and JMD that don't really have value in the free market.

[–]Phyroxis [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I "invested" in spring 2015 when it was 350USD or so a btc. So.. 100%ish return.

But it's also SUPER risky. I assumed I'd lose it (so I told myself I was gambling).

[–]extracanadian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thats why I stick to real estate. I can rent it out while the equity grows and short of a plague, I will not lose money in the long run. A catastrophic failure in the market means 20-30% loss of equity. For any other investment the entire amount can disappear.

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    [–]extracanadian [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

    I don't even know how to buy them or how they work really. The whole thing feels like I would just be paying real money to some shady website and getting some code in return that may or may not be usable in the future.

    [–]statoshi [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    You shouldn't invest in any asset you don't understand. Especially in the case of Bitcoin, where ignorance can result in you being hacked and losing everything.

    [–]Pasttuesday [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Sure but you could do the research. Coinbase you can buy from and is regulated - your coins are insured as well. You'll just have to have good standard security protocols like with your email/Facebook etc.

    [–]Trophonix [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

    Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. I guess it's kind of like "normal" investing. It's like "I could have this money I have and spend it on stuff, or I could give it to someone I don't know and hope it somehow will make me a profit".

    I think I am gonna look into it a bit and maybe buy some, though, just to see what happens.

    [–]Pasttuesday [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Well the cool difference is that once you give your money over and get the bitcoin - as long as you have the private key - you're in total control of the coins.

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          [–]amlast 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (1子コメント)

          PSA: only invest what you can afford to lose - the market can be quite volatile

          [–]666satanclaus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          PSA: Invest money you can afford. Don't put your retirement money on black in Vegas. Avoid hookers or don't.

          [–]NutraEfficient 428 ポイント429 ポイント  (389子コメント)

          This was actually 2-3 days ago. It dropped down to around $865.00 now.

          EDIT: $880 now (11:32 A.M. ET)

          [–]NetPotionNr9 431 ポイント432 ポイント  (364子コメント)

          Bitcoin is quite literally like a back alley game of dice

          [–]xiuxiu82 153 ポイント154 ポイント  (95子コメント)

          Seriously, thank you for explaining bitcoin.

          [–]statoshi 106 ポイント107 ポイント  (93子コメント)

          That statement is only really accurate if you're day trading bitcoins, which I don't recommend. Day trading almost any asset is a great way to lose money.

          [–]Cleverbeans 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (85子コメント)

          You really clarified the problem with bitcoin though, it's an asset not a currency. The value is simply too volatile to serve it's intended purpose well so it's become a bubble like pogs.

          [–]wise_comment 114 ポイント115 ポイント  (57子コメント)

          become a bubble like pogs.

          There are so many good historical examples of bubbles. You went with pogs. Is it possible to be both disappointed and impressed at the same time?

          [–]cmakk1012 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (51子コメント)

          I feel it's a statement on u/Cleverbean's personal disdain for Bitcoin, to compare it to something so silly

          [–]Xx69LeMemer69xX 86 ポイント87 ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Watch what you say about pogs mother fucker or you might get a slammer to the dome.

          [–]666satanclaus 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (47子コメント)

          I mean why do people have personal disdain for bitcoin? Is it ludditism, fear for change, arrogance or economic wisdom?

          [–]Montague-Withnail 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Or they bought into it thinking it was the future when it hit $1k USD.

          [–]989733894619 [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

          Bitcoin is not a fungible proxy with long-term viability for gold or really any other fiat currency.

          Chinese investors are simply switching to it because the yuan is predicted to weaken in 2017 while Bitcoin is creating a very attractive bubble.

          Educated people decry Bitcoin because of the economic implications of it. It's a decentralized currency, and you can sure as hell expect a government to step in and attempt to stomp it out if it gains serious traction.

          Bitcoin is very good business, but very bad politics and interchangeability.

          [–]666satanclaus [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

          Do you know what keeps bitcoin going? Where does the value come from and how it will disappear? How exactly will it be "stomped out"? Let's be specific here, ok?

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                [–]statoshi 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                I myself view it more as an asset, though if you want to use it as a currency without the volatility risk then you can use one of several services such as Coinbase's USD wallet or Coinapult's "locks" to prevent the value in your wallet from swinging around as much.

                [–]numun_ 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                Bitcoin works great, actually. If you expected it to replace the existing financial services industry, you don't understand what it's for.

                [–]xjvz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Bitcoin might not replace the existing financial services industry, but blockchain technology in general is looking to be the next big thing there.

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                  [–]OracleSeven [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  it's become a bubble like pogs.

                  Bitcoin can't be a "bubble". The price at any time could be part of a speculative bubble. That may or may not be true at the moment, but we'll see.

                  Time will tell if you are correct or not..probably not, but it's possible. But Bitcoin has been around for 7 years now and going strong.

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                    [–]KrustyKrabPizzaIsThe [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    Yes, if you have no idea how to day trade or read price action on charts. However, it's been a great income for me and many others.

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                        [–]TMI-nternets 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        This is during a price spike. It's actually chilled out in a major way, andit's getting better over time.

                        [–]iox100 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        No one trusts bitcoin. At least, until their currency collapses or their government institutes capital controls or negative interest rates. Suddenly those affected seem to like it more. So weird.

                        [–]Beo1 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I've watched it go from $0.08, to $30, to $3, to $1200, to $165, now to $900. I think it's a good long-term investment, but it's pretty high-risk.

                        You can make some calls about where it'll go based on geopolitical risk. China used to be a major driver of the price, and probably still is. Venezuela and India have probably contributed to the steady rise in price over the past year/weeks.

                        [–]AbulaShabula 168 ポイント169 ポイント  (226子コメント)

                        Yup, destined to be a series of booms and busts. There's no intrinsic value, so there's less opportunity for market makers. No yield, so buying and holding is not a guaranteed "win" in the long term like it would be with stock or bond funds. It's volatile, so it's use as a currency is limited. And every exchange has fractional resolutions, so if you place an order for, say, $800, you get front run by a bot placing an order at $800.001. And the community is vile as hell. Just a bunch of super libertarian anti-USD gold bugs who don't want to take the effort to understand how fiat currencies work and why inflation is good and why deflation is terrifying. I was out years ago. The technology is interesting, but my Roth IRA is more interesting to invest in. Also, Bitcoin is one implementation of blockchain, banks are just going to end up creating USD and Euro blockchains, ditching bitcoins. The BTC market is 100% driven by herd mentality.

                        [–]r0tekatze 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (62子コメント)

                        There are a few benefits to bitcoin, such as the ease of laundering and anonymity, that make it attractive. It is also easier to trade with in some scenarios, due to the process required to support fiat transactions. Because it's instant, too, and much cheaper than Paypal or Western Union, it's useful for international transfers.

                        Additionally, it can also be used to conduct trades where sanctions are in place, making it an important asset. There is a hospital in Iran that used to use BTC in the purchase of medicines, although a lot more went into the smuggling side of things. I've heard stories (although I cannot ratify them) of persons resorting to Bitcoin just to get food on the table.

                        Bitcoin is not just herd mentality. Admittedly, this plays a big part, but there are so many scenarios where a currency like bitcoin is preferable (and not all of them are immoral), that it makes it highly unlikely that non-fiat, anonymous currency will disappear any time soon.

                        [–]Ree81 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                        anonymity

                        It's pretty amazing that hackers can ransomware your computer and ask for bitcoins, being probably 100% untraceable.

                        [–]statoshi 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Privacy in Bitcoin is a complicated subject. If you want to understand it better, check out the Open Bitcoin Privacy Project. https://openbitcoinprivacyproject.org/

                        [–]JimGusa 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                        Every transaction is public on the blockchain. That means if a hacker sends Bitcoin to an exchange to cash out, everyone will know about it.

                        You can use a transaction mixer to try and hide it, but those don't always work well enough.

                        [–]ur_mum_ 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                        You know what account sent what money to what account, but you don't know who owns the account.

                        [–]mobile_user_3 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                        You do know what account and who you sent btc to so now you do know whose account is whoms(whose, not really great at the whole grammar thing)

                        [–]Eitdgwlgo [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                        No you don't. When exchanges get hacked people are eventually able to figure out where the coins go but they have no idea who owns the wallet. Bitcoin wouldn't be anonymous (which I haven't heard people boast about much anymore but that used to be a huge selling point) if you could find out who owned what wallets so simply.

                        [–]BitcoinBoo [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                        If you actually did research you would see that no one that knows what they're talking about calls it anonymous it's pseudo anonymous

                        [–]ChickenOfDoom [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        But if they then send it to another account which may or may not be their own, you won't know whether or not they still have it. And you don't know anything else about them other than the activity of the bitcoin account.

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                            [–]r0tekatze 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Not completely. There are avenues for traceability, especially given the two-way communication necessary for this style of attack.

                            [–]throawawy6wb2lr 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            It's more about getting around bank accounts that can easily be seized. Bitcoin is certainly not untraceable and being able to identify individuals becomes nothing more than a math and data collection problem, neither of which is likely to be an obstacle indefinitely. If anything, if you are worried about anonymity 30 years from now, you're better off going through the actual banking system.

                            [–]ashcroftt#SpaceElevatorsMatter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            you're better off going through the actual banking system

                            I'll hazard a guess you've seen first hand how data management and long term storage "works" in some banks...

                            [–]jadero 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            It's an unfortunate side effect. There are a lot of good reasons for anonymity and criminals make up a tiny fraction of the population. Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.

                            Also, anonymity is rarely perfect in any system, so I suspect that the truly motivated could trace transactions to the satisfaction of the courts.

                            [–]Ree81 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            "Fuck this guy I'll just...!!"

                            And then it's Russia

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                                [–]Minsc__and__Boo [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                                anonymity

                                Bitcoin is literally a public ledger of every transaction ever.

                                It's 100% public data and if your address is ever linked to you then anyone - authorities, competitors, etc. - will know when and where you spent anything instantly.

                                [–]moleccc [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                yes, that's why your wallet automatically generates a new address every time you receive bitcoins.

                                That said, bitcoins anonymity is not perfect. Some altcoins do a better job and there's also work on bitcoin improving it.

                                [–]r0tekatze [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                Yes. This is why you don't publicly reveal it.

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                                  [–]OompaLoompaFarts 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I'll take "what is the network effect" for $500 AbulaShabula...

                                  [–]Jeffy29 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  Also, Bitcoin is one implementation of blockchain, banks are just going to end up creating USD and Euro blockchains, ditching bitcoins.

                                  Ecorp coins.

                                  [–]isrly_eder 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  I was out years ago

                                  Yep, explains the salt.

                                  [–]Laxidazical 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (31子コメント)

                                  I think Bitcoin value is gauged to the black market. It is the defacto black market currency

                                  [–]Junkcoin 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                  cash is the de facto black market currency, bitcoin is highly traceable in comparison

                                  [–]Slim_Charles [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  It might be easy to trace in that you can always view the blockchain, but it is very difficult to determine who the address belongs to. For instance, on every large dark net market your wallet address will change after every transaction.

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                                    [–]Kasimure 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                    Yeah, the dude you're replying to sounds like he wanted to use it to replace USD to buy his toilet paper. Talks about everything bad about it from a finance perspective but then doesn't mention it's biggest draw: moving tons of money without oversight.

                                    [–]lAljax 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                    Isn't that a huge pro?

                                    [–]Kasimure 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Depending on your individual purposes, sure.

                                    He sounds like a genuine beancounter though who was trying to compare it to fiat currency.

                                    Personally, I'm not seeing the good for the individual in any currency with significant inflation, but he says it has value - maybe from a longitudinal perspective of the economy and fiscal policy with a lot of banking, but as he mentioned it's preferred by gold-heads like myself.

                                    I'd rather hold something relatively constant (the amount of gold on the planet is finite and therefore valued through scarcity instead of interest rates and money printing.

                                    [–]_Enclose_ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    I am not knowledgeable about this subject at all, so this might be a stupid question: Gold holds a relatively constant value, but what happens to that if tomorrow some prospectors of a big mining company find the biggest untapped goldmine on Earth, this would surely decrease the value of gold? What if we find huge quantities of easily extractable gold on Mars in the near future? Two hypothetical scenarios, very unlikely to happen, but what would be the consequences of this? Does gold need to be replaced with another scarce material, will gold still be the standard but just of way lower value, ...?

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                                      [–]AbulaShabula 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                      No, that's the US dollar you're thinking of.

                                      [–]Fenris_uy 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                      It's the online black market currency for participants that don't want to meet.

                                      [–]swinny89 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                      They are shifting from Bitcoin to Monero on many of the black markets.

                                      [–]midipoet 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Again, naive. Monero makes up 3% of black market currency transactions. Indeed only two markets accept Monero as far as I know. Of course, this may change.

                                      [–]swinny89 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                      3% isn't small. Where are you getting your numbers? What percentage are other currencies at?

                                      [–]midipoet 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      3% isn't that big either. At the moment, Alpha Bay is the only market I know that accepts Monero, but I am sure there is another one. The figure came from an interview with the creator of Alpha Bay.

                                      Edit: the second market is Oasis. I will try and find the interview. It was on r/bitcoin a few weeks ago.

                                      [–]ellenpaosanus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      https://coinmarketcap.com/

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                                        [–]moleccc [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                        Bitcoin is the peoples currency. It works directly person to person with no middlemen to rip you off. Also can't be inflated (some actually think that's a good thing) at the will of a few people.

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                                          [–]swinny89 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                          Cash generally has no intrinsic value.

                                          [–]btchombre [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                          NOTHING has intrinsic value because there is no such thing. Value is a creation of the human mind, and completely subject to its whims. That is the complete opposite of "intrinsic".

                                          [–]AbulaShabula 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                          Cash also isn't an investment. No one is saying to buy and hold cash.

                                          [–]Cizuz 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                          A currency isn't good if it always gets more valuable. A currency is good if it's stable, like any currency on the planet.

                                          Rapid inflation and deflation are actually quite bad for currencies.

                                          A change of 5 to 10% swing on a currency is actually quite stable.

                                          I do think Bitcoin is bullshit in the end, not defending it. However a currency being stable is important, inflation we deal with as a good predictor of stability, and deflation can be a horrid thing.

                                          [–]statoshi 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                          Unfortunately all value is subjective and relative. There is no such thing as "stable value" because the question then becomes "compared to what?" Try to engineer a token or asset that has a stable value and you'll fail just like everyone else has.

                                          [–]btchombre [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                          Bitcoin isnt a currency. Its a commodity. Its best use case is international transfers over the web, completely bypassing government capital controls, and artifical exchange rates. There is no better way to send money to Venezuela than via Bitcoin. Furthermore, the technology that underpins Bitcoin is absolutely amazing, and is here to stay.

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                                            [–]HumanTardigrade 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            There's no intrinsic value,

                                            Intrinsic value is a myth.

                                            Just a bunch of super libertarian anti-USD gold bugs

                                            Gold bugs are attracted to gold because they think gold has "intrinsic value" and thus they are not attracted to bitcoin.

                                            [–]btchombre [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Oh god not the "intrinsic value" bullshit again. Nothing has "intrinsic value". Value is not intrinsic. It is a creation of the human mind, and as such it is completely subjective to human whims. Bitcoin, like literally everything else in the world, has value due to a restricted supply, and some demand for its posession.

                                            [–]statoshi 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            It sounds like you're trying to analyze bitcoin as if it was a traditional asset class, which is your first problem. It's a completely new asset class because it can be used in a wide variety of ways. I suggest thinking of bitcoins as tokens that allow you to harness the functionality of the the Bitcoin network. And yes, I suspect we will see a plethora of blockchains arise in the coming years, but few of them will have the same properties and security model as Bitcoin.

                                            [–]lowfatcoolwhip 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                            Bitcoin is not an investment. It's a currency. If you're using it to make money you might as well go to Vegas.

                                            [–]welicious 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                            That's like saying that you can't bet on currencies. Of course you can, you can buy pounds and make a profit, sell them and go for yuans. Bitcoin can be an investment tool, even though it's so volatile.

                                            [–]hawkspur1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Sure, if you're not trading on forex for a large chunk of your portfolio

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                                              [–]statoshi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              Bitcoin has a multitude of use cases. Don't get too hung up on how other people use it.

                                              [–]AbulaShabula 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                              That's what everyone is advocating for in this thread. To be honest, why would you go USD-BTC-USD, paying several percentage in spreads and fees on each hop? Not to mention market risk in that time. As long as taxes are owed in USD, it will never lose use as a currency. That's literally where the value of currency comes from, taxation.

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                                                [–]OracleSeven [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                so buying and holding is not a guaranteed "win" in the long term like it would be with stock or bond funds.

                                                LOL. Keep dreaming.

                                                [–]_dredge [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                Is deflation really that terrifying?

                                                [–]JimGusa 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                no intrinsic value

                                                Have you heard of smart contracts? It's one of the reason so many banks and financial institutions are looking into blockchain. The automation of what is an extremely cumbersome/complex financial system could save banks billions (according to Santander bank). The upcoming SegWit update to Bitcoin will allow smart contracts on the Bitcoin blockchain.

                                                Bitcoin also serves as a good safety investment if your in a country like Venezuela, where Bitcoin demand is rapidly increasing. A Bitcoin can also represent an asset on or off the blockchain, giving them value as a placeholder. You can also make different 'tokens' to represent whatever you want.

                                                Also, there's much interst from banks in Blockchain but that's being used as a buzzword. Similar to how intranet was of bigger interest to major companies instead of the Internet, most banks are experimenting with their own private versions of blockchain (many of which are based off of, or straight up copies of ethereum) rather than public ones, like Bitcoin. They will soon find out that Bitcoin is the best blockchain because of the capital investment in it, and the already existing network effect it has. Once SegWit comes (which will fix the full blocks issue to a certain extent), we will also have the lighting network which would allow for secure, millions transactions nearly instantenously, all while maintaining privacy. This would function extremely well in the current US payment system since it would be able to handle more transactions at a time than VISA's network. The combination of smart contracts with the lighting network will revolutionize asset trading and many other financial markets.

                                                [–]Pragmaticdutchguy 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (38子コメント)

                                                Wow... I thought people just pretended to agree that inflation is good in order to keep the system alive but you really believe it. I find your post extremely scary.

                                                [–]AbulaShabula 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                The fact that you think inflation is bad shows how uneducated you are in economics. With a deflationary currency, people hoard it instead of spending it, which cripples economies.

                                                [–]Deltaisfordeath 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                Inflation is absolutely necessary... in a world where perpetual, bank lending fuelled economic growth is the only goal.

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                                                    [–]OracleSeven [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    So is the stock market, so is buying gold, etc, etc. Some are more volatile than others, but all basically the same in that respect.

                                                    [–]Offhisgame [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    Stocks of the worlds biggest companies can go up or down 10% in a day too..nvidia is up over 200% this year

                                                    [–]Sugar_Daddy_Peter [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    And everyone playing has been winning for a 7 year run.

                                                    [–]NutraEfficient 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                    I wouldn't say that. I've made a fair share throughout the years. I do it as a long term investment. The future is very bright for this beautiful technology.

                                                    [–]Mzamike [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    It's still around lol

                                                    [–]tnorthb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                    When investing, yeah, but it opens a pretty rich world of cryptocurrency when you start exploring it

                                                    [–]iox100 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Yeah...don't buy bitcoin because you know it's going to crash.

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                                                      [–]ranchlord 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      I made $42 by buying $20 worth last year and then forgetting about it until today, nice.

                                                      [–]iox100 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                      Seriously...don't buy bitcoin because you know it's going to crash.

                                                      [–]keyonte0 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      The joke here is that it always "crashes" higher that what it started at, right?

                                                      [–]Throwaway23750943858 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                      In June of 2015, when the video came out, it was trading for ~$235, now its $865??

                                                      [–]jtobin85 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                      Right? Holy shit bitcoins are highly volatile. I can't believe those fluctuations.

                                                      [–]FelicityCuntsworth [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                      It's rough if you're a seller, for a buyer not so much. Say 1 bitcoin is £1000, and I want to buy something that's £500, I'll just get 0.5 bitcoin and use that. If 1 bitcoin is £250, then I'll just buy 2 bitcoin and use that. As long as you're not holding onto bitcoin for very long fluctuations aren't a gigantic concern.

                                                      [–]Rrdro [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                      http://www.brainlesstales.com/images/misc/bitcoin-roller-coaster.gif

                                                      [–]eorld 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                      What a stable and reliable currency, why do people even use fiat???

                                                      [–]jurais 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      I sold at 325 when they had no plan for the block chain dilemma, wish I hadn't

                                                      [–]shitterplug 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      It hasn't though. They predicted a crash that didn't really even happen. It stabilized at $235ish, then shot back up. Some people did lose a lot of money, but they were stupid as shit for buying into something that shot up from $300 to $1100 in days.

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                                                          [–]itsbull1 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (50子コメント)

                                                          Is Bitcoin easy to turn into USD or is there some convoluted process with tons of restrictions

                                                          [–]TenNineteenOne 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                          Depends where you live. In the US, using Coinbase, it's very easy. Couple of taps on an app.

                                                          [–]infinitewowbagger 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          You can spend it in some shops.

                                                          [–]drunkladyhitme 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                          It is fairly easy with btc atm's and exchanges like localbitcoins

                                                          [–]DrDan21 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          coinbase lets you change it back and forth in seconds.

                                                          my personal buy limit is $50,000 usd with a 3 day delay. or $3,000 instantly

                                                          [–]illuminatiman 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (30子コメント)

                                                          It's easy enough depending on where you live. However it's best that once you have bitcoin, you hold it forever.

                                                          https://i.imgur.com/gE8hDnY.jpg

                                                          [–]AbulaShabula 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                                          At a zero percent interest rate. It's a terrible buy and hold. No diversity, no stability. Any liquidity will disappear in a time of panic. It's really a terrible asset class.

                                                          [–]Heisencock 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                          I know it's an exception and that no one had evidence it would explode as it did originally, but I remember being discouraged from buying it when it was less than a buck per coin for the same reason.

                                                          [–]AbulaShabula 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                                          Past performance is not indicative of future results. Just because it exploded in price does not mean it will continue. Especially when everyone crowding into the trade is only doing so because price went up. But I remember having this discussion just before it crashed. Everyone was saying I was an idiot and it's going to $10k or $100k. There's literally no fundamentals backing it. There's no way to calculate an intrinsic value. Remember, upside hysteria always peaks before a crash. When the price starts heading down and the panic selling begins, there will be no more buyers and all the previous buyers will turn into sellers. But keep on buying if you think I'm wrong. It's not my money you're gambling with.

                                                          [–]Heisencock 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                          I never bought em and don't intend to unless I grow the balls to use the darknet markets, I'm just letting my inner "I should've bought when I wanted to at pennies" salt leak out.

                                                          Happy Holidays friend.

                                                          [–]Bgndrsn 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                          I hate when hindsight is so painful. A year ago I asked my grandmother to help me buy AMD stock since I had no idea how to buy stock. She said she wouldn't help me because she didn't think it was a good investment and I took that advice. It's now 5-6x what it was when I wanted to buy.

                                                          On the flip side of this Bitcoin was worth 1k a year ago, dipped to 200 and is now back at 800. That currency is so fucking volatile that well you can make out like bandits you can also lose fortunes.

                                                          [–]happyretard [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                                                          On the flip side of this Bitcoin was worth 1k a year ago, dipped to 200 and is now back at 800. That currency is so fucking volatile that well you can make out like bandits you can also lose fortunes.

                                                          If you buy a diversity of coins, you are betting that open-source blockchain technology will be more valuable in the future.

                                                          [–]Rrdro [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                                                          There has been a strong downwards trend in the price of alt coins. A diversified altcoin portfolio is going to fail.

                                                          [–]happyretard [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                                          When Bitcoin goes up, altcoins go down. When Bitcoin goes down, altcoins go up.

                                                          I'm saying that if one believes open-source blockchain technology will be more valuable in the long-term future (i.e., +10 years), buying a diversity of token-types isn't a bad idea.

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                                                            [–]happyretard [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                            There's no way to calculate an intrinsic value.

                                                            Not by any conventional methods -- especially since it is an asset class that has never existed before.

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                                                                  [–]obiwanjacobi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                  If you sell them in person for cash, the former. Using an exchange for a bank deposit, the latter.

                                                                  [–]skilledroy2016 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                  If it wasn't fungible how could it have value in the first place?

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                                                                    [–]SirBellender 112 ポイント113 ポイント  (32子コメント)

                                                                    I think this one is caused by India banning cash and restricting gold ownership.

                                                                    [–]save-iour 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (24子コメント)

                                                                    ...banning cash? Like, all cash?

                                                                    [–]KnightArts 68 ポイント69 ポイント  (19子コメント)

                                                                    They demonetized 500 and 1000 rupee notes and given people time to exchange to new notes

                                                                    [–]bannedfromvideos 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                                    If you can prove the legal source of the notes that is. And you can only turn in so many at one time.

                                                                    [–]KnightArts 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                    its not nearly as problematic if you have history of transactions large enough, then its quite simple but still waiting time at banks is horrid shortage of cash does not help

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                                                                      [–]gloveisallyouneed 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      Haha, I read this as "demonized" at first ...

                                                                      (btw, it's demonetized not demonatized ...)

                                                                      [–]Spamakin 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                      No, just 500 and 1000 rupee notes. If you have a few, you get your cash back. If you have like millions in those notes, you have some explaining to do

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                                                                        [–]Ragnarrrrr 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        Also, Trump's pick for head of the Office of the Budget, Mick Mulvaney, is a known Bitcoin proponent. On the day that he was announced last week the price shot from like 800 to 880

                                                                        [–]yolotrades [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Correlation does not equal causation. We had just finished over six months of rock-solid consolidation, BBands were tight, and from a TA perspective, a big move was expected by many sometime in the second half of December, especially after the new OKCoin quarterly futures came out on Dec 16th.

                                                                        [–]SubCinemal 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                        No, Chinese are the ones flooding into bitcoin, they want to have >50%. They just had a failed bond auction. Bond markets are pretty much the largest markets of anything tangible. Derivatives are synthetic but do total over 1 quadrillion globally, and that market has a floor set by central banks, which rely on the bond issuance ponzi to operate. Though you are right that India has promised to give everyone "free" money once they confiscate all black money. India is going through a full hard ban on cash, the West is slowly trying to ban cash by getting rid of large bills under the guise that "large bills are for criminals". Then you will have to have your money in bank accounts and deal with the negative rates going on in Europe and Japan. America will try to raise rates and have to go negative once everyone else has their sinking ships abandoned, then lock all the capital here. Either way it's going to be every man for himself, or they're going to go through with instituting a new worldwide global currency after this all collapses.

                                                                        [–]isrly_eder 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                        Derivatives do not do over 1 quadrillion. At most 40 trillion, depending on how you count. But the vast majority of those derivatives offset so you're double counting. You're right though the bond market dwarfs equities which dwarfs M2 which dwarfs cash which dwarfs bitcoin. 18 bn is nothing in the grand scheme.

                                                                        [–]Reali5t [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                        True. Those not knowing think that those are big denominations and don't have much effect, but in reality it's notes that are equivalent of a little over $7 USD and about $15 USD. In the US the most common note is a $20 bill and in India they got rid of what in the US would be equivalent everything over $5 bill and that happened overnight without any warning.

                                                                        Another thing that affects the value is Bitcoins use in Venezuela as their currency is now garbage.

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                                                                          [–]Mohevian 183 ポイント184 ポイント  (96子コメント)

                                                                          Here's how Bitcoin works, for the confused:

                                                                          In a regular transaction, there's a buyer and a seller. You trade face-to-face and you each have a copy of the receipt of what you bought. (Dual-Entry Accounting)

                                                                          In a Bitcoin transaction, there's a buyer and a seller. They don't know each other, and can never find out anything about each other. They each have a copy of the receipt, and an extremely powerful computer verifies the transaction. The computer also doesn't know who the buyer and seller is, but it keeps a record of the transaction in a giant ledger known as the blockchain. (Triple-Entry Accounting)

                                                                          That is why they call it a crypto-currency. It gives you the privacy of cash while being electronic.

                                                                          For doing the verification, the computer is paid a small fee, in BitCoin. Anyone can volunteer in the verification process and become a BitCoin miner.

                                                                          The entire ecosystem is closed and deflationary, so the currency is guaranteed to appreciate in value over time.

                                                                          This has made it's inventor and early investors incredibly rich.

                                                                          Welcome to the human species. You're welcome. :)

                                                                          [–]_This_Is_Stupid 119 ポイント120 ポイント  (42子コメント)

                                                                          The entire ecosystem is closed and deflationary, so the currency is guaranteed to appreciate in value over time.

                                                                          Nope. Currency is a commodity, and prices of a commodity depend on two things--one, supply. Two, demand. And, if people aren't using it, then the value (price) of the commodity falls. If people stop using it, for whatever reason, Bitcoin stops holding value.

                                                                          It will only appreciate in value over time if and only if demand for it outstrips supply of it constantly. This has been true of literally zero commodities over the history of mankind, and so Bitcoin would have to be a new and magically different form of commodity. And, as you pointed out, it's not.

                                                                          Early adopters can make out like bandits, but they have to bail out at an appropriate time. They could just as easily wind up losing their entire investment if the demand for the product doesn't pan out, or it is overly held by speculators--you know, like every other commodity in the history of ever.

                                                                          TL;DR: Nothing is guaranteed to appreciate in value over time, period.

                                                                          [–]zipy124 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (37子コメント)

                                                                          Supply isn't a thing with bitcoin though it is a limited resource and so supply stays constant so if demand rises then price rises

                                                                          [–]StarFoxA 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                                                          I was reading about Bitcoins recently. Isn't there a technical limit to how many Bitcoins can be created?

                                                                          [–]zinc55 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                          Yes, IIRC the max limit will eventually be mined.

                                                                          [–]HorrendousRex 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                          There is an enforced, hard-coded maximum to the total numerical sum of all 'bitcoins', however, these 'bitcoins' are divisible to a practical infinity. The smallest denomination of value in the blockchain is known as a 'Satoshi', and is 0.00000001 BTC. So technically, yes, there's a maximum limit to the number of BTC that can exist in the blockchain, and that value is 21 million BTC. It's hard exactly to say when that number of bitcoin will exist, but it'll either happen in the next 10 or 20 years... or it will never happen.

                                                                          The reward for being the first to verify a block is given by this equation.

                                                                          (By the way, with roughly $25 trillion USD in the world, give or take, if all of those dollars were traded in for BTC - which doesn't really make sense, but let's put that aside - each Satoshi would be worth about 1.2 cents.)

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                                                                            [–]Goleeb 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                            Supply isn't a thing with bitcoin though it is a limited resource and so supply stays constant so if demand rises then price rises

                                                                            Until the demand surpasses the maximum number of possible transactions, Or someone controls more then 50% of the block chain, and starts charging large fee's for verification. Considering all you need is a bunch of individual instances of the software running. Anyone with a super computer could likely take down the whole thing if they wanted.

                                                                            [–]mango_drive [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                            Anyone with a super computer could likely take down the whole thing if they wanted.

                                                                            Nopes. While you cannot directly compare the performance of general-purpose super computers with single-purpose bitcoin mining chips, here's some perspective: The most powerful super computer is currently the Sunway TaihuLight with a power consumption of 15 megawatt. The bitcoin network uses close to 400 megawatt on custom dedicated hardware for hashing. It's safe to say you couldn't even take down bitcoin with the top 100 supercomputers combined. "You just need a bunch of instances of the software running" is like saying you can amplify a stadium-sized rock concert with your iPod. Bitcoin has come a long way.

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                                                                                  [–]BeastAP23 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                                                                  This really isn't in depth enough for anyone knew to bitcoin to get tge correct understanding of how it works.

                                                                                  [–]midipoet 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                  I am pretty sure there are a few close minded individuals on here that would not listen, even if you tried.

                                                                                  Ironic on a sub called Futurology.

                                                                                  [–]BillNyeTheRussianGuy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                  That must be one rich-ass computer. I wonder what it buys?

                                                                                  [–]ur_mum_ 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  It's a network of computers anyone can join and attempt to earn transaction fee from.

                                                                                  [–]HorrendousRex 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                  It's actually a distributed computation done by millions of computers around the world, all fighting to be a fraction of a second faster than everyone else.

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                                                                                    [–]SpontaneousDream 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                                                                    A few of the comments here are just painful to read...some people seriously misunderstanding how Bitcoin works and WHY it has value/utility.

                                                                                    [–]honest_rogue 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Yup. People don't understand currency in general much less crypto currency.

                                                                                    [–]666satanclaus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    There isn't a single comment on this thread which is nearly accurate. Except mine of course. Ouch.

                                                                                    [–]nitiger [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    I hate when Bitcoin reaches the front page of Reddit, so many haters out there for it.

                                                                                    [–]MyLeavesThrowawayAct [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

                                                                                    7 years in and nobody has come up with a decent way to introduce it to the general public, let alone explain the currency to people. I would find that a bit worrisome.

                                                                                    [–]Owdy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    I bet most people know how the hypertext transfer protocol works, right?

                                                                                    Money has been around centuries and most people don't know what it derives its value from, doesn't prevent them from using it everyday.

                                                                                    [–]Bitcoin_Acolyte [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    Try to explain how the internet works to your grandmother. You don't have to understand how something works to use it. What bitcoin needs is to build a base of trust as long as it keeps working it will do that.

                                                                                    *no garantee it will keep working but my fingers are crossed.

                                                                                    [–]ZenNate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                    There are plenty of great introductions to bitcoin. The problem is that it's very complicated. The initial reaction by most people to bitcoin is exactly the same as the initial reaction to any visionary technology that has ever been invented. People made the same arguments about electricity, automobiles, computers, the internet, et all.

                                                                                    All of those technologies required substantial exponential growth to be rationally feasible. But the mind has a hard time extrapolating exponentially, so the first stage people go through with technologies like these is skepticism.

                                                                                    I used to be in the skepticism camp with bitcoin. It took many hours of study before I began to realize the huge intrinsic value that I believe bitcoin has.

                                                                                    That said, not all technologies take off and bitcoin can fail. But if it does take off the early adopters will become wealthy, and we are definitely still in the nascent stage. So my advice to people is to seriously look at bitcoin with an open mind for your wallet's sake. You may be missing out on the biggest economic opportunity of our lifetimes if you make up your mind on the matter too quickly.

                                                                                    FWIW, I think Andreas Antonopoulos gives the best case for bitcoin. He has many talks on YouTube.

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                                                                                      [–]GeorgesTurdBlossom [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                                                                                      You can send it to anyone on the Internet with no third party involved. How can people say that has no value?

                                                                                      [–]lAljax 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                      Strong currencies bump off the weak ones, that's one of the reasons why Brazil went through 6 of them during my lifetime, while the USD is more or less the same since inception. Btc is a game changer though, odds are it will spread in the places where it's needed the most. Where there is capital control, bank bail in, business killing taxes. It sounds useless to who has dollars or euros, but if you have bolivars, rands or whatever shitty currency, it might be the difference between life or death.

                                                                                      [–]CallidusUK 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                      Exactly. The current financial system depends on the suffering of weak currencies for there to be strong ones. When India wiped out over 80+% of its currency recently, a large percentage of the population got screwed. Bitcoin is one solution to the people of this world who are vulnerable to such tactics. Imagine a Syrian who escaped the war and got to Germany with his family, comforted by the fact his family's wealth was in bitcoin. He could cross countless borders to reach safety, and always knows his money is safe and decentralised from control. This is the future.

                                                                                      [–]lAljax 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      Yeah man, I'm amazed to see people in this topic saying that government will keep the purchasing power of their currency, therefore Btc is worthless.

                                                                                      [–]Helyos17 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                      The future is a lack of "currency" all together.

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                                                                                          [–]3MATX 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (40子コメント)

                                                                                          I still can't wrap my head around this currency. Can someone try to explain? Like do I buy a bitcoin with cash?

                                                                                          [–]illuminatiman 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                                                          You should check out this video, they have a neat explanation that doesn't delve too deep into the technicalities.

                                                                                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kubGCSj5y3k

                                                                                          [–]TheHighPizzaWizard 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                          You can buy it with cash if there is a Bitcoin ATM where you live, otherwise you can buy it online from coinbase or bitpanda. There are tens if not hundreds of different exchanges and places that sell them.

                                                                                          Edit: I am sure there are better places than Coinbase and Bitpanda, but those are the first major ones that popped in my mind. These two are for US and EU residents respectively.

                                                                                          [–]jrmbruinsfan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                                                                          You can. You also however can 'mine' it. This is done by a computer trying to solve an equation, which has a small chance of giving you 1 Bitcoin. Pools are often made which is a group of many people, in an attempt to get more Bitcoins but give a smaller amount of money to each person. More info: http://www.coindesk.com/information/what-is-bitcoin/

                                                                                          [–]albionhelper 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                          Just to add, in almost all scenarios for solo miners it is not profitable to actually mine it.

                                                                                          [–]infinitewowbagger 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                          Unless you have a time machine.

                                                                                          I have some bitcoin somewhere from years ago but no bloody idea where.

                                                                                          [–]albionhelper 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                          Lots of people have lost bitcoins this way, my condolences

                                                                                          [–]Grimesy2 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                          And there's only X amount of Bitcoin that will ever be made so ... Damn.

                                                                                          [–]albionhelper 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                          Imagine someone finds a HDD with a stack of bitcoins in 100/200 years time, granting they are still valued, they would be riches.

                                                                                          [–]Dougasaurus_Rex 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          There was a guy who found a flash drive he'd loaded up with like 10,000 when Bitcoin were less than a dollar, then when he found it it was worth about 10mil

                                                                                          [–]Infamously_Unknown 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Even if the HDD would be safely and properly stored, the data would be thoroughly corrupted in 100 years.

                                                                                          [–]mprofeta 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                                                          stop telling this to people, it gives a very wrong impression about how the technology works. it's been impossible to get even with electricity cost for years without specialized equipment. even then it's a super competitive business.

                                                                                          solving a block gives you 12.5 btc as of right now.

                                                                                          [–]Sonereal 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                                                          Without specialized equipment and a horde of Chinese miners presumably getting free electricity somehow.

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                                                                                                [–]FluxSeer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                Come on /r/futurology you should be on this stuff. This comment sections is riddled with old and tired arguments. Bitcoin is a highly technical achievement in computer science. There are thousands and thousands of academic papers studying it. Do you think robots are gonna use bank accounts?

                                                                                                The future is decentralized.

                                                                                                [–]danheinz [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                someone gave me a 1/10 of a bitcoin once as a tip on reddit. I wish I would have setup that wallet now

                                                                                                [–]Rarus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                I want it to crash sub $400 so my fucking cousin will stop gloating about how he told everyone to invest at $450. Easily makes a post an hour of regularly saying everyone he knows is an idiot.

                                                                                                [–]Overmostheads [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                Good job I mined litecoin 3 years ago for months, and it's worth absolutely nothing now. Yay

                                                                                                [–]onerulenograpes 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (10子コメント)

                                                                                                Once it gets past $1000 the Chinese housing market will crash.

                                                                                                Edit: This is what webbot told me.

                                                                                                [–]JRPoilburner 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                                                                                Why is that?

                                                                                                [–]Invient 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                                                                                Capital flight. the strong dollar is pulling capital out of China, if bitcoin gets to a high enough value the Chinese will take the risk (it fluctuates a bit) because they see the writing on the wall for their own currency (debt to GDP ratio of 210% means government will expand money supply to keep demand, devaluing their savings).

                                                                                                Edit: China is implementing capital controls as well, which means citizens can only take out I believe 40k USD, if you have a few million or billion you want to protect then Bitcoin gets around the government influence...

                                                                                                [–]umumumuko 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                                                                Can't they just block it with their great firewall?

                                                                                                [–]Invient 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                                                                                They would have to target Evey miners IP, which is impractical... They could hamper the network by cutting off the mining pool within their border which is substantial. That would hobble Bitcoin, raising transaction costs, but eventually it would rebound.

                                                                                                [–]umumumuko 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                                                                Couldn't they just do block by protocol?

                                                                                                [–]IAmTheSysGen 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                Then someone will put their server on port 80 and encapsulate it in TCP and it will be game over.

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                                                                                                    [–]ManiacFoSho [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                                                                                    My favorite part apart bitcoin is watching people argue over whether it's a currency or an investment. If you want to hear three opinions, put two economists in a room.

                                                                                                    [–]CausticSodaPop [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                                                                                    So the fact that I was gifted one for Xmas is a good thing? No friggin idea what to do with this thing.

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