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UN urges end to Israeli settlements (bbc.com)
Arc1ZD が 4時間前 投稿
[–]Rust-YI 290 ポイント291 ポイント292 ポイント 3時間前* (148子コメント)
The unique aspect of this particular resolution is that the United States, which usually vetoed every resolution that was presented to the security council concerning Israel, had decided to let it pass.
this decision of the United States is believed in Israel to stem from 2 sources, the first is the bitter personal relationship between Obama and Netanyahu, which went south after Bibi had decided to show up in congress without Obama's permission, in regards to the nuclear deal signed with Iran. as well as a legislation that is currently being promoted and is highly likely to pass that would legitimize seizure of owned land behind '67 lines and would make the process of creating new settlements or legitimizing old ones a lot easier for the israeli parliament. currently the supreme court does not allow for legitimization of settlements easily, and there is constant tension between the supreme court and the right-winged elected government.
as you can probably imagine, Israels government is not so happy about the decision made by president Obama and claims it is unfair to not veto this resolution as it stands against (what they believe to be) president elect trump policy.
what it means for Israel: different countries have different legal systems, and now that the settlements are considered more illegal than before in regards to international law, different sanctions to national and international companies that operate within the west bank could worsen (and this is not only limited to direct activity in the west bank, for example, one could sue an international manufacturer of construction equipment for renting items indirectly via an Israeli company for the construction of settlement, if the law in that country holds them responsible. ). this in turn should discourage companies from operating outside the '67 lines and perhaps even in Israel, fearing of legal action. companies would not be the only ones effected as this can also effect Israeli personnel by making them wanted criminals in many countries, rendering them disabled to travel to many places. still, these kind of sanctions are particular to nations that are interested in putting them in the first place, and such should not effect Israel greatly, furthermore any multi-national sanction against Israel would have to pass via the security council in the future, and would be highly likely to be vetoed by the trump administration.
what this means for the Palestinians: the Fatah has been slowly losing power in the Palestinian street, which in turn strengthens Hamas. the most important thing stemming from this decision for the Fatah is that it gives it room to breath and shows that the government is capable, it also send a message to Israel, saying that the expansion of the settlements will not go without actions.
all in all i believe that this decision tends to even out the game between the Israelis and the Palestinians, keeps the Status quo and makes both sides more likely to come back to the negotiating table, however, until big compromises are made by both sides I don't believe the solution to the conflict is anywhere near.
Source: am Israeli, sorry for the terrible grammar.
edit: formatting and stuff.
[–]DrBoomkin 93 ポイント94 ポイント95 ポイント 3時間前 (61子コメント)
This isn't that unique and actually this exact scenario happened before:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_465
That resolution is basically the exact same thing as what the UNSC voted on today. Nothing happened back then, and the resolution had zero impact. You know why? Because that resolution was passed under the lame duck anti Israel president Carter, who was quickly replaced by Reagan who was vehemently opposed to it. Sounds familiar?
[–]alexksak 66 ポイント67 ポイント68 ポイント 3時間前 (47子コメント)
Funny how US presidents only do something that could upset Israel when they're already out the door with no chances of coming back.
It's as if they fear some kind of backlash if they did something like that while in power.
[–]DrBoomkin 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 2時間前 (34子コメント)
The US is a democratic country. The US population is overwhelmingly pro Israel. The job of the president is to represent the will of the US population.
Does that answer your question?
[–]moltenmoose 41 ポイント42 ポイント43 ポイント 2時間前 (14子コメント)
It's less that Americans are pro-Israel, and more that elected officials fear repercussions from the pro-Israeli lobby. Outgoing presidents don't need to fear these repercussions because outgoing presidents don't need to be reelected, so some of them go ahead and do the right thing.
[–]HeTalksToComputers 34 ポイント35 ポイント36 ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Only 34% of Americans support Israeli settlements.
[–]angierock55 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 1時間前 (5子コメント)
It's less that Americans are pro-Israel, and more that elected officials fear repercussions from the pro-Israeli lobby.
That's a really tired canard. And in case you haven't checked recent polling: Americans' Views Toward Israel Remain Firmly Positive
And that includes U.S. democrats, the majority of which are more pro-Israel than pro-Palestinian.
[–]uncannylizard [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
American support Israel but they oppose the settlement expansion. These resolutions are not against Israel, they are against one specific policy that Israel has towards an occupied territory.
[–]koshgeo [スコア非表示] 44分前 (0子コメント)
Supporting Israel in a broad sense is not the same as supporting an Israeli policy of settlements in occupied territory. There is a difference between "support" and "unqualified support".
[–]HeteroMilk 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 2時間前 (7子コメント)
It seems even American Jews agree with the US abstaining here.
[–]BiglyMAGA 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1時間前 (6子コメント)
Obama did plenty to upset Israel all throughout his eight years as the President.
You think of AIPAC as the boogeyman because it's the only way for your to continue identifying with your narrative. Wake up and smell the humus.
[–]alexksak [スコア非表示] 1時間前* (3子コメント)
The only thing he did that upset Israel was pursue diplomacy instead of war with Iran... that and calling the settlements illegal, which is just stating their legal status as far as the international community is concerned.
It's not like he stopped sending over the billions, or, you know, sanction them like he sanctioned Russia when Putin decided to annex territory.
[–]Mister_Positivity [スコア非表示] 4分前 (0子コメント)
That's exactly right. Both parties are fully dedicated to the Israeli project as an extension of American manifest destiny. Israel will continue to settle and claim land over and over expanding its borders for generations, centuries, if need be. Any opposition to the plan is notional and never intended to have any serious effect.
Nothing changes until people and politicians get over their fear of being labeled anti-semites.
[–]guilelessgull 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
anti Israel president Carter
Carter was behind the Camp David peace accords, which guaranteed billions of dollars in annual US aid to your country. Spitting on his legacy is a disgusting lack of class.
[+][削除されました] 3時間前 (36子コメント)
[deleted]
[–]DrBoomkin 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 2時間前* (32子コメント)
That was a reaction to this snub by Obama:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2015/03/18/obamas-rude-snub-of-netanyahu/
As for Israel's intelligence community, they are all against the Iran deal. I know the media reported differently at some point, but that was bullshit. Even Netanyahu's political opponents from the left all oppose the deal, as well as the vast majority of Israelis.
[+][削除されました] 2時間前 (21子コメント)
[–]DrBoomkin 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 2時間前 (12子コメント)
Bibi circumvented Obama because he felt that Obama was doing things that were extremely bad for Israel and it was his duty to stand up to him. You might not agree with that, but surely you realize that it would have been much easier for Netanyahu to not do that. He must have felt strongly about it if he was willing to align with the Republicans over it.
Now Trump is about to get into the white house, and everything indicates that he will be the most pro Israel president in American history. The Republican party itself is more pro Israel than at any other point in history as well, and they control both houses.
It appears Bibi's gamble payed off big time.
[–]Nowhrmn 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1時間前 (5子コメント)
He must have felt strongly about it if he was willing to align with the Republicans over it.
Netanyahu is basically a Republican. He even took what I understand to be the unprecedented step of endorsing a candidate in the 2012 election, he endorsed Romney. This is normal for him.
[–]DrBoomkin 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
Netanyahu didn't officially endorse Romney. It's a misconception that was spread by Romney himself. However Netanyahu was certainly closer to Romney both politically and personally (they worked together in the 70's) than to Obama.
[–]Sejes89 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
Netanyahoo has said he will not support any Palestinian state.
Trump wants to ban and list of all Muslim Americans. Similar ideology. Both alt-right or just racist? Netanyahoo called Trump a "true friend of Israel" while Americans at home are fearful of a Trump presidency.
We should see it for what it is. Israelis are ruled by a bunch of racist psychopaths.
[+][削除されました] 2時間前 (6子コメント)
[–]DrBoomkin 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 2時間前 (5子コメント)
Yep, that article presents only one side. I was looking for a more balanced one that shows some generals agree, but many others disagree:
http://www.timesofisrael.com/despite-white-house-claims-israels-security-chiefs-are-split-on-iran-deal/
[+][削除されました] 2時間前 (4子コメント)
[–]DrBoomkin 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 2時間前 (3子コメント)
Israel is universally behind Bibi on the "worst deal ever" view.
Well, the Israeli political system (both the left and the right) and the public are.
[–]ash286 [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
UN also urged Hezbollah to disarm, but that hasn't stopped them.
[–]GoHuskies858 114 ポイント115 ポイント116 ポイント 3時間前 (22子コメント)
Good. The left loves Gaza/Palestine despite harboring Hamas and regularly provoking Israel. The right loves Israel despite aggression and imperialism that make peace very difficult.
The reality is, Israel is our ally and they will stay that way. But, that doesn't mean their actions should be blindly supported always. Just as our allies condemned us when we invaded Iraq, it takes courage to stand up to your friends.
Not a lot of people can see the world in anything but black and white these days, but IT IS possible to support Israel while also supporting (or abstaining from) this UN resolution.
[–]idan5 25 ポイント26 ポイント27 ポイント 2時間前 (3子コメント)
I'm an Israeli and that's the kind of support that I think we need. Constructive and realistic.
[–]Ravenman2423 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3時間前* (0子コメント)
Most level headed comment in the thread right here.
[–]therealfakebatman 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
r/unexpectedhogwarts
[–]pinata_penis_pump2 79 ポイント80 ポイント81 ポイント 3時間前* (11子コメント)
I found it rather odd that the Venezuelan ambassador was lecturing Israel about morality.
[–]Joshgoozen 38 ポイント39 ポイント40 ポイント 3時間前 (7子コメント)
Its the UN, a UNHRC declaration has declared that the only country in the world hurting women rights is Israel because of Palestinian women. No rights in many nations? Not an issue. FGM? Nope. Put in Jail for getting raped? Totally fine!
[–]FlameOfWar 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1時間前 (5子コメント)
Source?
[–]dl2316 [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
least biased source I could find
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-singled-out-at-un-for-womens-right-violations/
[–]Joshgoozen [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (3子コメント)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4639165,00.html
[–]orthodoor 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
This. Not Saudi Arabia that doesn't even allow women to drive.
And yet, there are still people out there that believes that the UN isn't biased.
[–]GuacamoleFanatic 139 ポイント140 ポイント141 ポイント 4時間前 (115子コメント)
Please tell me when the UN will take up the Syrian cause with such enthusiasm!
[–]DrumpfTowers 119 ポイント120 ポイント121 ポイント 4時間前 (82子コメント)
They can't bc Russia will just veto any resolution.
[+]vestayekta スコアが基準値未満のコメント-14 ポイント-13 ポイント-12 ポイント 3時間前 (81子コメント)
Yeah, because Russia support its allies but the US apparently has chosen to abandon them.
[–]HeteroMilk 49 ポイント50 ポイント51 ポイント 3時間前* (13子コメント)
Apparently giving Israel 3 billion a year in aid is "abandoning" them.
With the way Bibi treated his relationship with the USA, maybe you should ask yourself what Israel is doing to support its ally in the USA.
Edit:Typo
[–]Techno-Communism 27 ポイント28 ポイント29 ポイント 3時間前 (10子コメント)
We only showered you with support for decades and still into the future but if that's not good enough for you then by all means, urge your government to return the F-35s.
[–]The_Goat_is_Golden 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 2時間前 (8子コメント)
This was honestly my reaction as well. The ONE time the US doesn't cave to whiney Israel and we are all of a sudden 'bad' allies.
[–]hyejebsubeudvehe 52 ポイント53 ポイント54 ポイント 3時間前 (19子コメント)
I'm glad you realize that both Israel and Syria is guilty of flagrant violations of international humanitarian law.
[–]lilleff512 43 ポイント44 ポイント45 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
I'll take false equivalencies for $500, Alex!
[–]angierock55 29 ポイント30 ポイント31 ポイント 2時間前 (13子コメント)
At least 100,000 people have been killed in Syria since 2015- compare this to 300 Israeli and Palestinian fatalities in the same time period, a toll eclipsed by multiple other ongoing armed conflicts. There's absolutely no comparison between the two, both in the magnitude of the conflicts or their driving factors.
And yet, look at how they're treated at the UN, according to the Associated Press:
Of 233 country-specific HRC resolutions in the last decade, more than a quarter — 65 — focus on Israel. About half of those are "condemnatory." Israel easily tops the second-place country in the infamous rankings: Syria, where since 2011 at least 250,000 have been killed, over 10 million displaced, and swaths of cities destroyed, was the subject of 19 resolutions.
This is nothing more than another political attack on Israel by actors who have every incentive to focus the world's attention on Israel. It's much easier to whitewash your own policies when you can spend your days claiming that Israeli families building homes in the Golan Heights or living in the Jewish Quarter in Jerusalem is a heinous violation of international law.
[–]HeWhoStandsToPoo 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 2時間前 (10子コメント)
What's happening in Syria is wrong, but why try to change the topic to justify illegal Israeli settlement expansion? SAD!
[–]TheClimor 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 1時間前 (3子コメント)
It's not about changing the topic, it's about showing how the priorities of the UN agenda are biased and absurd. You must agree that if the UN really cared about human rights they would've done anything, anything at all, to stop the Syrian genocide - be it by using sanctions, sending forces or disqualifying rights of Syria internationally, or at least promote assistance for the refugees. But no, apparently focusing on a bunch of houses built on conquered land is a much larger issue. This just goes to show that the UN is a biased organization, that cannot promote or maintain peace since it is being run by the same countries who are constantly putting obstacles against it. And if you don't believe me, ask Ban Ki-Moon: https://www.google.co.il/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ban-ki-moon-united-nations-disproportionate-israel-focus-resolutions-palestinians-human-rights-danny-a7481961.html%3Famp?client=safari
[–]angierock55 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Strawman- reread my argument please. It's not just Syria, and it's not just about settlements. Or did you forget about UNGA resolution 3379, which claimed that Zionism - the movement to grant Jews the same right to self-determination promised to every other nation - was equivalent to racism?
There is something incredibly rotten at the UN when it comes to Israel, and this resolution is just the latest expression of it.
[–]castanza128 [スコア非表示] 32分前* (0子コメント)
They said Israel as a "JEWISH STATE" was racism.... Why do you have such a problem with honesty?
[–]hyejebsubeudvehe 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
You know, Assad's crimes don't make settlements in the occupied West Bank (including East Jerusalem) any less of a violation of the fourth Geneva convention. These settlement activities are explicit war crimes as defined in the Statutes of the ICC.
[–]slaugh85 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
So is Russia, China, America, and lets not forget Britain, Turkey, Australia, Pakistan, Burma, Sri Lanka, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE, Egypt, Indonesia, Philippines....The list goes on. The reality human rights abuses occur all over the world and people energies are wasted on a mere drop in the ocean comparatively. One might begin to think that people have more against Jews than Israel.
[–]hyejebsubeudvehe 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Straw man. There's quite a lot of opposition whenever these countries violate international law.
It is utterly disgusting bordering on explicitly racist that you are willing to justify war crimes as long as they are committed by jews against against arabs.
[–]Aggrophobic84 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
but you have hundreds of nuclear weapons to support whatever you want to do, silly goose
[+][削除されました] 3時間前 (29子コメント)
[removed]
[–]DeeMosh 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
The Middle East does not need the democrats help to be a mess.
[–]mynamesyow19 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 3時間前* (4子コメント)
I feel like the Democrats are trying as hard as possible to leave as much as a mess possible in the middle east
Wha ?? Bush and Company took the flamethrower to all the fuel that the ME has been stockpiling for centuries, pulled out the lynch pin, Saddam, that was maintaining the delicate balance, and made ISIS's recruitment job an easy one...and now you think the Dems are making the ME a "mess" ?
LOL. Jeezus man...
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/no-president-obama-did-not-break-the-middle-east/373202/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-we-stuck-with-maliki--and-lost-iraq/2014/07/03/0dd6a8a4-f7ec-11e3-a606-946fd632f9f1_story.html?utm_term=.968fc0db66b1
http://www.newsweek.com/iraq-war-bushs-biggest-blunder-294411
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2656734/Ancient-hatreds-tearing-apart-Middle-East-How-1-400-year-old-feud-Shia-Sunni-Muslims-flared-life-fall-dictators-like-Gaddafi-Saddam-threatens-swallow-Iraq.html
http://forward.com/opinion/israel/217842/how-bibi-and-bush-made-a-mess-of-the-middle-east/ sums it up well by saying "In early January 2002, four months after the September 11 attacks, Israeli national security council director Uzi Dayan met in Washington with his American counterpart Condoleezza Rice. She told him — to his surprise, he later told me — that President Bush had decided to invade Iraq and topple Saddam Hussein. A month later Dayan’s boss, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, met with Bush in the White House and offered some advice, based on decades of Israeli intelligence.
Removing Saddam, Sharon said, according to three sources with direct knowledge, will have three main results, all negative. Iraq will implode into warring tribes of Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds. You’ll be stuck in an Iraqi quagmire for a decade. And Iran, a far more dangerous player, will be rid of its principal enemy and free to pursue its ambitions of regional hegemony. Bush didn’t agree.
Israeli leaders continued pooh-poohing Iraq all spring. Dismissal turned to alarm in August, when Iranian dissidents released evidence that Iran was pursuing nuclear weapons. In September Sharon told his cabinet to stop discussing Iraq. It was annoying the White House.
On September 12, however, a different Israeli voice visited Washington: ex-prime minister-turned-private citizen Benjamin Netanyahu. A longtime Sharon rival, closely allied with Washington’s neoconservatives, he’d been invited to address the Republican-led House as an expert on Iraq. Baghdad, he said, was hiding mobile centrifuges “the size of washing machines.” Moreover, “if you take out Saddam, Saddam’s regime, I guarantee that it will have enormous positive reverberations on the region.” Throughout the Middle East, including Iran, populations will be inspired to topple their own dictators.
Bush, of course, listened to Netanyahu and the neocons, not Sharon and his generals. Alas, Sharon was right. Iraq imploded. Iran surged. The invasion had reverberations, but hardly positive. The rest is history."
[–]stillwoke 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 2時間前* (0子コメント)
This is not a Democrat or Republican thing. People always seem to forget about people like this. or this. Their toxic ideology concerning Middle East and its people is the reason we are in this mess. Their poison reaches deep into the halls of power and minds of the citizens.
[–]vestayekta 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 3時間前 (20子コメント)
I think they've genuinely turned on Israel.
[–]Truth_SHIFT 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 3時間前 (17子コメント)
If your allies don't want peace, it is appropriate to abandon them.
[–]vestayekta 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 3時間前 (14子コメント)
That's how a superpower loses its influence around the world. If you abandon your allies when they need, they'll turn to other countries to support them.
[–]mgahan 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3時間前 (5子コメント)
here's a shocker: most American's don't give 2 shits about influencing the rest of the world. in fact most of us would just assume stay out of that middle east dumpster fire & let them blow each other to smithereens if they so desire.
[–]Glorious_Comrade 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 2時間前* (2子コメント)
While I agree most Americans may feel that way, most Americans alive today haven't lived in a world where the US didn't have the kind of influence it does on world affairs, and consequently in a world without the direct and indirect benefits of that power. Having such an influence is not unrelated from a strong economy, strong military and technological prowess. The authority of a nation is tied into its own strong foundations, and historically almost all nation states have gone on to "influence" global affairs once they built a strong home-base.
What I'm trying to say is this: US withdrawing suddenly from world affairs will signal a situation where it is automatically "losing" out to other global rivals on a lot of fronts, not just diplomatic. US's current economy is intricately tied into its sphere of influence over the world, and would undoubtedly take a hit if it cuts all strings off, including taking a hit on international trade deals, import/exports, defense and aerospace industry, shipping, FMCG etc. This would just be a natural consequence of the US loosening its stronghold (whether it be militarily or commercial). I don't know how many Americans of today, who are used to extremely good living standards, cheap gas, cheap manufactured products etc will be ready to live in an austere economic backlash that will most likely follow a sudden step like this.
[–]Horus420 36 ポイント37 ポイント38 ポイント 3時間前* (11子コメント)
fuck your whataboutism. The reality of the situation is that the settlements need to stop now if theres ever going to be a two state solution.
[–]Sejes89 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
Hard to do when Russia is supporting the secular Assad govt and Saudi Arabia and their allies are supporting their enemies, ISIS. Russia and US can veto any resolution to help Syria and protect their interests.
The UN is not democratic until we get rid of veto nations. It is just an international vessel for a few countries to rule (make laws) over the rest.
[–]frosthowler [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I think you've got it backwards. The third world, i.e. African, Arab, SEA, etc countries have a majority in the U.N. General Assembly, and are free to draft any resolution it feels like against the west and the Permanent members, which don't hold a veto in the GA. This is also expressed in how countries like the Philippines, UAE, and Saudi Arabia are on the Human Rights Council.
[–]evilfisher 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
whataboutism !
[–]wraith20 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Whataboutism.
[–]TheHotshot1 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Not with Russia and its allies being there. They love the bloodshed and dictatorship in Syria.
[–]meteorblade 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 3時間前 (6子コメント)
There's been plenty of resolutions on Syria.
[–]slaugh85 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2時間前 (5子コメント)
There's been 8 against Syria compared to over 200 against Israel in the last 6 years.
[–]QuarterOztoFreedom 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
They are free to "urge" all the want in either Syria or Israel, but any resolutions are blocked by the US or Russia.
[–]-HeisenBird- 23 ポイント24 ポイント25 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Calm down Israelis. When Israel inevitability ignores this resolution, it's going to be the US who protects Israel from any repercussions.
[–]ksigma1652 155 ポイント156 ポイント157 ポイント 4時間前 (239子コメント)
Attacks labeling the UN anti-semitic incoming in 3...2...1...
[–]angierock55 109 ポイント110 ポイント111 ポイント 3時間前 (110子コメント)
I mean, even the head of the UN admits that it's ridicuously biased against Israel, like his predecessors did before him.
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said the organisation has a “disproportionate” volume of resolutions against Israel, which he believes has “foiled the ability of the UN to fulfill its role effectively”. Addressing the UN Security Council on Friday, Mr Ban said: “Over the last decade I have argued that we cannot have a bias against Israel at the UN. "Decades of political maneuvering have created a disproportionate number of resolutions, reports and committees against Israel. “In many cases, instead of helping the Palestinian issue, this reality has foiled the ability of the UN to fulfill its role effectively."
United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has said the organisation has a “disproportionate” volume of resolutions against Israel, which he believes has “foiled the ability of the UN to fulfill its role effectively”.
Addressing the UN Security Council on Friday, Mr Ban said: “Over the last decade I have argued that we cannot have a bias against Israel at the UN.
"Decades of political maneuvering have created a disproportionate number of resolutions, reports and committees against Israel.
“In many cases, instead of helping the Palestinian issue, this reality has foiled the ability of the UN to fulfill its role effectively."
The fact that certain people choose to ignore this because it aligns with their political biases doesn't make it any less true.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/ban-ki-moon-united-nations-disproportionate-israel-focus-resolutions-palestinians-human-rights-danny-a7481961.html
[–]JustHach 127 ポイント128 ポイント129 ポイント 3時間前 (30子コメント)
It's pretty disingenuous of you to have that wall of quotes, but leave this part out:
Despite the admission, Mr Ban added: "Israel needs to understand the reality that a democratic state which is run by the rule of the law, which continues to militarily occupy the Palestinian people, will still generate criticism and calls to hold her accountable."
All these resolutions happen because Israel cant keep their hands to themselves and/or come up with a real solution that both sides can agree on.
[–]mzackler 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 3時間前 (5子コメント)
Anyone who thinks there is only two sides of this hasn't spent much time on it
[–]DrBoomkin 38 ポイント39 ポイント40 ポイント 3時間前 (14子コメント)
So if Israel wasn't a democratic state he wouldn't have had a problem with that? Because UN voting patterns certainly indicate that. They rarely criticize dictatorships.
[–]meelawsh 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
If only UN would tell a dictator to stop being so mean, it would solve everything!
[–]mindzoo 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1時間前 (11子コメント)
Dr Boomkin So Israel is headed to a single unified state where Palestinians become full citizens. Either that or Israel denies them citizenship and becomes a true Apartheid State. That is obviously the end result of settlements. Is that preferable to the two state solution for you? I don't understand what the end game is. Please enlighten me because it's fucking baffling.
[–]DrBoomkin 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1時間前 (10子コメント)
I am in favor of a 2 state solution in which Israel annexes the major settlement blocs and east Jerusalem. After that there is a population exchange, in which the Palestinian population in those areas is moved to Palestine, and the settler population outside of those areas is moved to Israel (similar to the population exchange between Greece and Turkey).
Also, the triangle area within Israel which contains a large percentage of the Israeli Arab population will be transferred to Palestine.
[–]mindzoo [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (9子コメント)
But what if the people on that land don't want to be moved?
[–]DrBoomkin [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (8子コメント)
The settlers dont want to move either. Too bad.
[–]mindzoo [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (7子コメント)
No. I'm sorry that's not what I meant. I mean really if lots of people on both sides don't want to leave what happens? What's the peaceful solution?
[–]DrBoomkin [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (6子コメント)
They would have to be removed by force. Israel has removed it's own settlers by force before, and it has done the same with Palestinians. It's not impossible.
The border would be charted in a way that will minimize the amount of people who would have to move.
[–]bellrunner 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
*Some of these resolutions happen because Israel etc etc. Some of the resolutions arise from a more "we must wipe the infidel state of Israel from the face of the planet" kind of intention.
But you're right, leaving out the parts of a quote that disagree with your point is, indeed, a dick move.
[–]Cptcutter81 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
or come up with a real solution that both sides can agree on.
They keep offering great solutions, they're not the ones who decline them then lie about what was offered.
[–]angierock55 -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2時間前* (1子コメント)
I quoted the relevant part of the speech that I referenced in my argument, which concerns UN bias.
All these resolutions happen because there's a systemic anti-Israel bias entrenched into the UN system, bolstered by autocratic regimes that benefit from global attention being routinely diverted to Israel, rather than focusing on their on behavior.
The Palestinians, who have been gaining a greater presence in U.N. institutions in recent years, have allies like the Organization for Islamic Cooperation, which has often led the push for resolutions critical of Israel. An OIC official did not respond to calls and e-mails seeking comment, saying only that its ambassador to the council had recently left. ... The more economic and political heft that a country has, the more it can block intense scrutiny. Uber-rich Saudi Arabia thwarted efforts to create an international probe of rights abuses in neighboring Yemen, where a Saudi-led military coalition has led a campaign including air strikes that have left hundreds of civilians dead.
The Palestinians, who have been gaining a greater presence in U.N. institutions in recent years, have allies like the Organization for Islamic Cooperation, which has often led the push for resolutions critical of Israel. An OIC official did not respond to calls and e-mails seeking comment, saying only that its ambassador to the council had recently left. ...
The more economic and political heft that a country has, the more it can block intense scrutiny. Uber-rich Saudi Arabia thwarted efforts to create an international probe of rights abuses in neighboring Yemen, where a Saudi-led military coalition has led a campaign including air strikes that have left hundreds of civilians dead.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/8601b2d2e4ab42bc8e0490aa5af1ed03/world-chaos-israel-gets-singular-focus-un-rights-body
[–]mindzoo 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Just because autocratic regimes use the Palestinian issue as a fig leaf for their own activity doesn't change the fact that Israeli settlement and occupation activity is untenable.
[–]Bout_It_Bout_It 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 3時間前 (5子コメント)
Well the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a uniquely long running issue so it would be surprising if there are wasn't a lot of resolutions concerning it.
Also, you have equated being against Israel with anti semitism. Not that a lot of middle eastern coutries aren't. But there are good reasons to oppose Israeli actions too.
[–]matessim 29 ポイント30 ポイント31 ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
The word anti-semetism does not not appear anywhere in his post, and nearly all of it is a direct quote which is sourced from a past U.N secretary general, Can you point out where he did what you claim exactly?.
Also, it is suprising because mass counts, more people died in Syria in the last year than in the entire Israeli-Palestinian conflict ever, yet Israel has more condemnations just in 2016 than the rest of all UN members combined.
[–]Bout_It_Bout_It 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
The top comment was about how the UN would be called anti Semitic because of this decision.
Angierock then basically goes 'well the UN is biased against Israel', and then i was arguing that being against Israel isn't necessarily the same as being anti Semitic.
[–]angierock55 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
Plenty of ongoing and more lethal armed conflicts have been taking place longer or for an equal amount of time- check out this list for reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts
Why isn't the UN similarly obsessed with them?
No, not just being against Israel, but obsessing over its every move while giving a free pass to all its neighbors. There's a big difference.
[–]ksigma1652 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 3時間前 (20子コメント)
Perhaps because every previous condemnation of Israel has been blocked by the US? I.e use of cluster bombs on civilians, refusing to sign the NPD, etc.
[–]rosinthebow 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 3時間前 (17子コメント)
It's nice that some checks are in place to prevent tyranny of the majority.
[–]Techno-Communism 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 2時間前 (9子コメント)
Pretty rich coming from the people who had to cleanse others in order to manufacture a racial majority dominated democracy.
[–]emotionlotion 8 ポイント9 ポイント10 ポイント 3時間前 (43子コメント)
If I go 20 over the speed limit every time I drive, I don't get to claim the police are biased against me because I have more speeding tickets than anyone else.
There are a disproportionate number of resolutions against Israel because this clearly illegal occupation had been going on for 50 years now. It's the same resolution every year, and every year Israel and the US refuse to go along with the overwhelming international consensus for resolving the conflict. If Israel stopped after the first resolution, there wouldn't be so many subsequent resolutions saying the exact same thing.
[–]kms7941 27 ポイント28 ポイント29 ポイント 3時間前 (7子コメント)
What about how Israel was the only country cited by the UN Women's Right's panel for women's rights violations. What does that have to do with any occupation, and how is Israel the worst offender in the world of women's rights?
[–]rosinthebow 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 3時間前 (13子コメント)
Israel is hardly going 20 miles over the speed limit. The UN is essentially committing racial profiling, condemning the black guy for going 5 miles over while letting ten white guys going 20 over go.
[–]DragonDDark 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
I'm confused lol what's happening on the road again?
[–]spootwo 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
It's fine if you're white, or arab, and not Jewish, keep moving.
[–]superfire444 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 3時間前 (17子コメント)
Well then the UN has to give loads of other countries resolutions too. It's still bias if only Israel gets them.
[–]spootwo 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 2時間前 (7子コメント)
Because when you accuse one nation constantly while ignoring the other atrocities in this world it is anti-semetic.
How can arab nations even pretend to care about Palestine. They are in active persecution of LGBTQ, and religious minorities, and yet they care deeply for Palestinians (as long as they don't try immigrating to Syria, Egypt, Jordan, etc...)
If you can show the UN condemning other nations with the same vitriol then I will retract my statement.
[–]antantoon 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
The Arab countries are doing it as a political play, they don't actually care about Palestinians. It doesn't mean that Israel is innocent though, they've broken multiple international laws and should be brought to account for their actions.
[–]spootwo 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
Everyone who breaks international laws should be held accountable. Sadly that's happened almost never.
[–]GoldFuchs [スコア非表示] 55分前 (0子コメント)
This is the part that really pisses me off, to be honest. Every criticism of Israel's policy towards Palestine is greeted with ridiculous accusations of anti-semitism. When it's literally just you and one buddy-big country against the rest of the world, then maybe, just maybe you are in fact on the wrong fucking side of history.
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[–]reelniggaonehunna 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 3時間前 (29子コメント)
Israel just loves to play the anti semitic card don't they?
[–]lilleff512 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 2時間前 (21子コメント)
It's not playing a card -- it's the truth. Zionism is nothing more than Jewish self-determination. To say that the Jews as a people are undeserving of a state is anti-semitic.
[–]uncannylizard [スコア非表示] 49分前 (0子コメント)
This resolution does not oppose the state of Israel. It supports the state of Israel it's just also supports the state of Palestine.
[–]Naxela 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2時間前* (4子コメント)
If zionism is Jewish Manifest Destiny then like the US they too ought to answer for any peoples that their "self-determination" wrongs along that path.
When "self-determination" comes at the detriment of those who have no ability to defend themselves, then it's no longer a valid excuse.
[–]StevefromRetail [スコア非表示] 57分前 (0子コメント)
Well it's not manifest destiny. I guess that settles that, right? Stop trying to expand the definition to include shit you don't like just because you want the word to mean something else.
[–]lilleff512 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 1時間前 (2子コメント)
Self-determination is not the same as Manifest Destiny. Saying Jews don't deserve a state because it comes at the detriment of Arabs is like saying Serbs didn't deserve a state because it came at the detriment of Austria-Hungary. Palestine would be much more capable if they paid less attention to attacking Israel and more attention to, ya know, defending themselves.
[–]boundaryrider 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2時間前 (6子コメント)
Correct, and repudiating a country for consistently building illegal settlements in order to diminish the hopes of its adversary achieving statehood is an objective criticism, not anti-Semitic.
The issue here isn't whether or not the Jews deserve a state. It's the fact that the Israeli government is consistently trying to prevent Palestinians from achieving the same statehood they have. Given that the existence of Israel was entirely hinged on the UN it's mind boggling that they treat the organization with such contempt.
[–]Sejes89 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
They do and they know it
The best way to shut down a message is to kill the messenger. FYI, I'm talking about Noam Chomsky, not Hitler.
[–]heyyoudvd 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 4時間前 (41子コメント)
It's not an attack; it's a statement of fact.
[–]QuarterOztoFreedom 39 ポイント40 ポイント41 ポイント 3時間前 (2子コメント)
How can condemning the settlement of occupied land in anyway be viewed as anti-semitic?
[–]Techno-Communism 12 ポイント13 ポイント14 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
It can't but someone will be along to try explaining it soon enough I'm sure.
[–]sloundstar 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
'logic' of the pro-israel crowd.
[–]DrumpfTowers 56 ポイント57 ポイント58 ポイント 4時間前 (29子コメント)
You can be against the Israeli government and not be against the Jews.
[–]angierock55 44 ポイント45 ポイント46 ポイント 3時間前 (25子コメント)
Ok, well tell me this: why do you think Israel the only country in the entire world with a permanent agenda item at the UNHRC? Why are there more UN resolutions condemning Israel than Iran, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Sudan, N. Korea, China, Cuba, and Venezuela, combined? Do you think because it stems from a rational objection to Israeli policies, or something else?
[–]UnGauchoCualquiera 23 ポイント24 ポイント25 ポイント 3時間前 (15子コメント)
Maybe because it's the only country sistematically settling occupied lands.
[–]crowdota2 37 ポイント38 ポイント39 ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
lol.
where is the condemnation of the turkish and russian occupations?
[–]MrWorshipMe 21 ポイント22 ポイント23 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
And China
[–]NobleSavant 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
How about Ukraine?
[–]Techno-Communism 20 ポイント21 ポイント22 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
It's also the oldest unresolved conflict in UN history so there are very good reasons for them to 'resolve to call for a cease', wow so scary.
[–]orthodoor 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
This is so false.
[–]DragonEevee1 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
China? Turkey? Russia?
[–]rosinthebow 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Not true.
[–]colgateblanco123 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
Because most of those countries fuck inside their borders.
They do horrible shit inside their borders
[–]quasidor 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
Your standards for what is okay and what isn't are a bit off.
[–]IAmTheSysGen [スコア非表示] 50分前 (0子コメント)
The UN was built primarily against international oppression.
[–]goodonekid 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3時間前 (3子コメント)
illegally occupying
Do you know what an occupation is and when it ends? The US and the rest of the Allies occupied Germany after WWII until Germany signed an unconditional surrender and even then the occupation lasted a while longer. The Palestinians have never accepted any peace after they lost their wars and hence are still occupied. This is just how things work. You can say illegal this and that but that doesn't change reality and how the world works. Also, Gaza is no longer occupied and look what happened there. Why the hell would Israel end the occupation of the WB when we have a clear example of what happened when they left Gaza?
[–]DragonEevee1 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 2時間前 (2子コメント)
Technically, its not illegal occupations as long as they are still at war. Since the Palestinians refuse peace/don't honor it they are still at war allowing the occupations. This doesn't include lands Israel has left
[–]jediprime74 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Okay, for the sake of argument, fine. Still a state of war.
Still occupied territory, though, which makes the settlements illegal under the 4th Geneva Convention.
So...even if you were right to justify the military occupation that does nothing to legitimize the presence of the settlements in the militarily-occupied territories. See: Articles 2 and 49 of that Convention.
[–]joshuathenord 73 ポイント74 ポイント75 ポイント 3時間前 (26子コメント)
As an Israeli I couldn't be happier. Someone need to shut Netanyahu's mouth.
[–]abir_valg2718 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Amen. Sick and tired that our tax money is going towards these religious nutcases (and the other ones too...), all for the sake of politics. Especially considering the current state of our economy.
[–]idan5 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 2時間前 (4子コメント)
Israeli here too, not saying that i'm happy but definitely not sad.. Bibi Habaita
[–]MoralBlackHole 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
What a wonderful phrase!
[–]idan5 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
What a wonderful phrase
Ain't no passing craze
[–]FoxTheGamer 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
how does this shut his mouth though? the only thing it does is making is statements regarding the UN seem true. The UN has made a one-sided decision completley disregarding Netanyahu's offers to have a direct negotiations with palestinian authorities and instead going for one-sided moves.
[–]literalmario 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
I cant believe I have to say this, but I am pro Israel and I actually support a 2 state solution, its the only thing that would work. What I wanted to say is Netanyahu is a fucking lunatic! Just like Putin, Trump, and countless others. Very hateful man.
[–]fukier [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
I will be surprised if the UN survives a Trump Administration
[–]01101011011101000110 30 ポイント31 ポイント32 ポイント 3時間前 (6子コメント)
This is coming from the institution that has Saudi Arabia on the Human Rights Council.
[–]alexksak 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 3時間前* (1子コメント)
You need to understand what the Human Rights Council does. It's probably not what you are imagining.
Saudi Arabia has no power over what's considered a human right, and Saudi Arabia's human-rights abuses are being documented by UN agencies, even while they're on the council.
It's not giving them a free pass on any of the shit they're doing.
[–]uabroacirebuctityphe [スコア非表示] 45分前 (0子コメント)
No matter what you think the council does - Saudi Arabia is not an appropriate member of it.
[–]Sejes89 [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
And the institution that passed Resolution 181, the legitimization of colonialism within the British Mandate of Palestine for a national Jewish state.
They probably feel responsible today...
[–]StampAct 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Barry got one last F-U in before he left office.
[–]angierock55 37 ポイント38 ポイント39 ポイント 4時間前 (25子コメント)
TIL the Western Wall and Jewish Quarter are now "occupied Palestinian territory." Good luck with that!
Also, if Israel tried to abide by this ruling and withdrew from the Golan Height, who exactly would take over? Assad or ISIS?
[–]Bout_It_Bout_It 42 ポイント43 ポイント44 ポイント 3時間前 (14子コメント)
There are settlements that are illegal even under Isreali law. This resolution is mainly a response to a bill going through Israeli parliament to even expand them further.
[–]fzw [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
And by doing nothing to stop this expansion, they're allowing these communities to take root so that as time goes on it would seem ridiculous to kick them out. It's a classic tactic of expansionism; borderline colonization.
[–]uabroacirebuctityphe [スコア非表示] 39分前 (0子コメント)
If it's a bill going through the Israeli parliament, then it literally is not illegal by Israeli law.
[–]True_Stock_Canadian 9 ポイント10 ポイント11 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Didn't you hear? The Western Wall is Palestinian, not Jewish! The UN said so.
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[–]DrumpfTowers 4 ポイント5 ポイント6 ポイント 4時間前 (2子コメント)
Obama is making sure all the bad decisions are made by Trump. This way he has to act, he can't just say it was Obamas bad idea if it goes poorly. Trump going to have to own it, lmao.
[–]undreamt_odds 11 ポイント12 ポイント13 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
The United States will not support the use of any additional land for the purpose of settlements during the transitional period. Indeed, the immediate adoption of a settlement freeze by Israel, more than any other action, could create the confidence needed for wider participation in these talks. Further settlement activity is in no way necessary for the security of Israel, and only diminishes the confidence of the Arabs that a final outcome can be freely and fairly negotiated
Ambassador Samantha Power quoting Ronald Reagan.
[–]crowdota2 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
and when is the condemnation for the turkish and ruski occuptians
[–]PSMF_Canuck [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
TL;DR - Nothing changed.
[–]SirBaldBear [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Israel:
Nrewp. Nopes. No. Bye
[–]TheGreenBackPack [スコア非表示] 54分前 (0子コメント)
Bibi has already released a statement regarding how egregious it is that the UN dare encroach on the Israelis right to land theft. It's really simple. End the occupation and work towards peace, even if it has to be unilaterally enforced by the Israelis. Or just continue slowly destroying each other. At this point just withdraw and seal the border if you're that worried about terrorism.
[–]Mister_Positivity [スコア非表示] 10分前 (0子コメント)
Too late. Should have done this 8 years ago when it could have meant something.
[–]amydsd 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 3時間前 (7子コメント)
Netanyahu is an extremist who has aggravated relations with the Arab world. I've been to Israel, I've been to Auschwitz, an Israeli state needs to exist and Israel has proven itself to be the free and prosperous nation its founders envisioned, but the settlements have to stop. The two-state solution cannot be disregarded and I applaud the Obama administration for taking the difficult stance of finally forcing Israel to clean up its own messes.
[–]freshgeardude [スコア非表示] 31分前 (0子コメント)
Netanyahu is an extremist who has aggravated relations with the Arab world.
Funny.. Seeing as Netanyahu's government has had closer relations with plenty of the Arab world.
Rapprochement with Turkey, recent visit to Kazakhstan, friendly with Azerbaijan, suspected closer ties with Saudi Arabia, etc and more.
[–]_Perfectionist 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 1時間前 (4子コメント)
President-elect Trump, who will be inaugurated on 20 January, tweeted after the vote: "As to the UN, things will be different after Jan. 20th."
I wouldn't be surprised if Trump takes it up the ass for Israel and makes it the 51st state.
[–]Joshgoozen 15 ポイント16 ポイント17 ポイント 3時間前 (71子コメント)
Basically a final "fuck you" from Obama to Israel and Trump on the same night a man is stabbed by a terrorist in the West Bank.
[–]Charylla 26 ポイント27 ポイント28 ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
Obama is in "no fucks given mode". I like No fucks Obama.
[–]theredlore 22 ポイント23 ポイント24 ポイント 3時間前* (16子コメント)
How is that relevant? Keep subjugating a population until they're treated like animals and they'll do anything in their desperation. I won't sit here in the comfort of my life and judge Palestinians.
[–]Jmrwacko 6 ポイント7 ポイント8 ポイント 3時間前 (8子コメント)
You're allowed to judge people for firing rockets and mortars at civilians, even if it's in "self defense" i.e. petty revenge.
[+][削除されました] 3時間前 (6子コメント)
[–]stillwoke 14 ポイント15 ポイント16 ポイント 3時間前 (15子コメント)
Never gonna happen, more settlements = more conflict = more weapons and land for Israel.
[–]tialpoy 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント 3時間前 (14子コメント)
Oh, "more settlements = more conflict"? then why was the PLO established and already attacking Israel before there were any settlements?
[–]MrWorshipMe 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント 3時間前* (4子コメント)
And when Israel dismantled the settlements in Gaza it also exacerbated the conflict - so, less settlements = more conflict as well. There's just more conflict regardless of settlements, it'd continue as long as Israel exists.
[–]Paroment 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
It's pretty obvious that building settlements is not helping the situation
[–]osk1123 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント 3時間前 (16子コメント)
It is time for Israel to own up to its actions. The settlements cannot continue, and Israel cannot claim itself to be for a two state solution with this action.
Thank you Obama for this historic moment. If there was anyone who could save the two state solution, it was you; now we have a demagogue set to succeed him and one already in power in Israel who will slowly bring about Israel's destruction.
What a year.
[–]TheChickening 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2時間前 (10子コメント)
And Palestine shouldn't name streets after suicide bombers and terrorists killing innocent isreali youth and they shouldn't educate children to hate isrealis. Isreal tried to stop plenty of times, palestine simply didn't want it. Now Isreal said fuck it and isn't trying to be nice anymore.
[–]matar48 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 2時間前 (7子コメント)
oh you want to play that game do you? A quick google search shows that Israel not only names its streets after recognized terrorists but even elects them to office. So please save me the rhetorical bullshit and take it easy on the koolaid
[–]Da_Undahtakah 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント 1時間前 (1子コメント)
They really shouldn't have the settlements. Even from an Israeli strategic perspective if they were to withdrawal all assets from the Palestinian territory if violence continued then certainly they could justify military action much better than they are now. It's harming their global relations at this point... they should abandon settlements.
[–]CookieMonster1948 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
The Egyptian-drafted resolution had been withdrawn after Israel asked Donald Trump to intervene but it was proposed again by Malaysia, New Zealand, Senegal and Venezuela.
Best part is the international community didn't put up with any of Trump or US's bs they said if you delay it screw you we'll just have the vote without you.
So proud of you, world.
[–]Puppy_Snuggler 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント 2時間前 (1子コメント)
Personally, I don't care if the Palestinians light up half of Tel Aviv or Israel lines up every bulldozer on the planet and pushes the Palestinians into the ocean but the narrative of this conflict has always bothered me. Whenever I read about Israel and Palestine the tone always assumes Israel is the adult in the room and Palestine is the child which places the blame and solution entirely on their shoulders. However, the people who should be the adults in the room (the rest of the goddamn planet) aren't willing to expend any political or financial capital to fix the problem. It's simply not an important enough problem for anyone else to get seriously involved.
Until that changes there will be no solution. Israel will continue to chip away at Palestinian land, Palestinians will continue to have zero serious international representation, and people around the world will continue to argue about what should be done instead of actually doing anything.
[–]Shekket -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント 2時間前 (19子コメント)
Fucking Obama. Just goes to show what a fucking hypocrite. He had 8 years to tell Israel to go fuck itself, but only when there are no personal consequences for him does he actually do something. Cowardly wanker.
[–]literalmario 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント 2時間前 (4子コメント)
You clearly have no idea about anything that has happened in the past between the two. Many believe the Iran deal was a direct result of Netanyahu addressing Congress without his invitation.
[–]goofzilla 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント 3時間前 (4子コメント)
As a layman, it looks like everyone overwhelmingly agrees that the settlements are illegal.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements
[–]Joshgoozen 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント 2時間前 (3子コメント)
The UN also agreed that the only country hurting women is Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-singled-out-at-un-for-womens-right-violations/
[–]IAmTheSysGen [スコア非表示] 31分前 (0子コメント)
No. The UN did not vote on that. The UNHRC decided so. Remember that the UN is simply the world, not an evil conniving private organization, whereas the UNHRC is something else.
[–]daddylonglegs74 [スコア非表示] 52分前 (1子コメント)
At last.
A genuine example of whataboutism.
[–]boundaryrider 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント 2時間前 (0子コメント)
Good to see the US finally taking an objective stance on Israel. Too bad President Cheeto will destroy any attempt at progress though.
[+][削除されました] 3時間前* (8子コメント)
[–]anon7987 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント 3時間前 (1子コメント)
15,000 illegal settlements were built in 2016 by Israel in Palestinian territories.
You just made that up and the number is so ridiculous it is not even worth disproving with actual sources. Next time say something vaguely plausible when you make shit up, IDK maybe 50.
[–]Joshgoozen 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント 3時間前 (0子コメント)
Er? If you add every city, town and village in all of Israel you wouldnt reach this numbers.
[–]hyejebsubeudvehe [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
Every single judge in the International Court of Justice found that the West Bank and East Jerusalem is occupied by Israel. This includes the American judge Buergenthal, a Jewish holocaust survivor. So I'm not going to accept your case that the world is indeed flat.
[–]onodera-punpun [スコア非表示] 1時間前 (0子コメント)
*occupation
Settling sound nice huh, "yeah our family is just gonna "settle" in this land that's owned by no-one". Thats not the case.
π Rendered by PID 9654 on app-657 at 2016-12-23 23:36:24.454414+00:00 running d73bd90 country code: JP.
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[–]tialpoy 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント (14子コメント)
[–]MrWorshipMe 19 ポイント20 ポイント21 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Paroment 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]osk1123 18 ポイント19 ポイント20 ポイント (16子コメント)
[–]TheChickening 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント (10子コメント)
[–]matar48 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント (7子コメント)
[–]Da_Undahtakah 0 ポイント1 ポイント2 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]CookieMonster1948 5 ポイント6 ポイント7 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Puppy_Snuggler 1 ポイント2 ポイント3 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Shekket -1 ポイント0 ポイント1 ポイント (19子コメント)
[–]literalmario 16 ポイント17 ポイント18 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]goofzilla 3 ポイント4 ポイント5 ポイント (4子コメント)
[–]Joshgoozen 13 ポイント14 ポイント15 ポイント (3子コメント)
[–]IAmTheSysGen [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]daddylonglegs74 [スコア非表示] (1子コメント)
[–]boundaryrider 2 ポイント3 ポイント4 ポイント (0子コメント)
[+][削除されました] (8子コメント)
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[–]anon7987 10 ポイント11 ポイント12 ポイント (1子コメント)
[–]Joshgoozen 7 ポイント8 ポイント9 ポイント (0子コメント)
[–]hyejebsubeudvehe [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)
[–]onodera-punpun [スコア非表示] (0子コメント)