全 95 件のコメント

[–]teh_mICON 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Instead of trading affection or sex for proxy power, now women can claim to deserve that access by default. She lives in a constant state of disaster that plays on a man's desire to lend power. It may seem baffling to him that no amount of power he lends seems to fix the endless string of calamity that is her life. What he's missing is that drama is her source of power. Discord is the dynamic that powers the weak. All weak people revel in their victimhood, it is the foundation of their identity.

Fucking Christ. This is some eye opening shit.

It's not just women though, it's also men. Weak men to be precise.

I've had a friend for many years who always seemed to be in trouble, always sad, bad mood, drama and calamity happening in his life. Always not his fault though and always nothing to help the situation, just bad luck. I tried to help him over and over and over and it just made me miserable.

At some point I decided fuck him and cut all ties.

Something like a year later I learned that he had now decided to live as a woman and putting it in this context I'm convinced that he just wanted that extra bit of victimhood, to be this unfortunate creature that was born the wrong gender. To now get all the benefits of living as a woman.

Thank you very much for putting in the effort to think and type all this up. I took a break for a while from TRP because it was just an endless stream of same old same old AWALT but this is a breath of fresh air and I appreciate it.

Kind regards from someone from Germany who learned a lot about life and improved it beyond recognition due to the red pill.

mICON.

[–]thefisherman1964 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Control over language is power. Orwells 1984 illustrated that exceptionally well. Feminists have broadened the definition of "rape" to include reproductive coercion and sexual contact that she regrets the next day. The beauty of it is that in both cases, the sex was consensual. So rape no longer means non consensual sex, but also consensual sex.

The definition becomes meaningless because any sex can be considered rape by any person who wants to be victimized. Weaponizing language is how feminists can fabricate victims.

[–]PhucCheet -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

broadened the definition of "rape" to include sexual contact that she regrets the next day

No, the official definition still does not include that. It's strictly rooted in consent, which can only be withdrawn before or during but not after.

For this "day after regret" stuff, you're conflating two issues: when consent did or did not ACTUALLY occur (i.e. the objective truth) and our inability to know what truly happened because we're only hearing people's stories (i.e. subjectivity, possible lies on both sides).

When feminists treat "day after regret" as rape, what they're really saying is:

TRUE EVENT -- she never consented in the first place, rape

HER STORY -- I never consented (she's not lying)

HIS STORY -- she consented. bitch just changed her mind later (he's lying)

When MRAs are saying "day after regret" is not rape, what they are really saying is

TRUE EVENT -- consensual sex happened. next day she felt bad and decided to call it rape

HER STORY -- I never consented. (she's lying)

HIS STORY -- she consented. bitch just changed her mind later (he's not lying)

The first situation is clearly rape. The second is clearly not rape. The problem is that both sound the same from the stories that are told, so what you label it depends on who you believe more. It's in the liar's best interests to act as much as possible as someone who is not lying would, which makes it hard to differentiate which case really happened unless there is hard corroborating evidence (e.g. video, witness).

If you've ever encountered people lying about anything other than rape (something less contentious, e.g. school gossip, work performance, sexual exploits), you should know that the person whose story sounds more complete or plausible isn't always the one telling the truth. Lie detection is an imperfect art.

But no one (sane) is defining it as "rape" if she ACTUALLY DID just withdraw consent the next day. The problem is either of them could be lying. Both have strong incentives to lie.

[–]OneWonder 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You're focusing too much on the legality of rape rather than the societal pressures of the "rape happens all the time" mindset we live in today.

It's not like Men are being told that rape is happening on the same levels of other violent crimes. We are being told every man is a rapist. That all men and young boys should watch out because they could unknowingly be next.

I do not see seminars at universities about not becoming a murderer or the next big serial killer. Clearly the message is you too could be a rapist! All men are rapists on the inside.

We all know a woman who's rape story sounds a bit misconstrued, especially when she mentions she never reported it. Shit I even knew a girl who married her convicted "rapist" and even had his baby. A little weird in hindsight? No?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's insane- I've sat through it. There was a student orientation for one of my exes that I decided to go to with her to see what the hubbub was about. A hypnotist. Did a few tricks, and then, as it turns out, the message was about date rape. As though all the guys in the audience needed to learn not to do it.

[–]kraken9911 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm over 30 now and I'm so glad my generation never had these idiotic rape seminars because I would have been unable to stop myself from cracking jokes the entire time inbetween chuckles. I can easily picture my bros back then just completely making a wreck of such nonsense.

[–]filitantmeminist 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That whole paragraph is why modern liberalism and cultural marxism exist at all.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's not just women though, it's also men. Weak men to be precise.

Ironically, this post I quote is from a gay friend of mine, and he was writing it specifically in reference to Women, Weak/Gay men, and children on our lesser known /r/altTRP.

Thank you very much for putting in the effort to think and type all this up.

You're most welcome. Cheers!

[–]Rufferto_n_Groo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That quote about lending power applies to far more than just women.

Public education, for one. Schools beg for money, and no increasing amount solves the issue. It can't; without the drama there's no money for raises.

Any industry or government agency converged with women will work the same way.

[–]Endorsed ContributorMattyAnon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not just women though, it's also men. Weak men to be precise.

It doesn't work nearly as well for men. They try it, but it's generally ineffective. Men are told to buck up their ideas and accept reality. Women are given support, comfort, improvement to their lives, the problem fixed AND told they aren't to be held responsible for anything they say or do.

[–]conquerlifegroup 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Who is John Galt? It's you. Thank you so much for these.

[–]Lice138 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I believe the number of actual rapes are even lower than what is recorded. There is a difference between a "false" allegation and "unfounded". A false allegation is when the woman admits that she made up the whole thing while an unfounded one can be blatantly false (there is evidence to sugest that there was no way the rape could have taken place) but she sticks to her guns.

Women do this because they can, there is only one other crime that people will agree that we should just bypass a trial and head straight to torture, on an allegation alone.

It’s commonly reported that frat parties are where college girls go to get raped. If the number of rapes were true, would it not stand to reason that women could easily avoid these dens of rape?

Yes but feminists are retarded. Say you live in a bad neighborhood and you take a 100 dollar bill and leave it on your door step. What do you think the cops would do when you tell them you have been robbed, they would laugh in your face. Same thing if you are drunk, if you are smashed and give 10 dollars to a homeless guy, you cannot claim that you were too drunk and he in fact robbed you.

But this isn't the same with rape victims. If you ask a "rape" victim why she got black out drunk and naked in her "attackers" house then you are "blaming" the "victim".

[–]PhucCheet 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (12子コメント)

It’s commonly reported that frat parties are where college girls go to get raped. If the number of rapes were true, would it not stand to reason that women could easily avoid these dens of rape? Yes but feminists are retarded.

Humans are retarded. Why does anyone still smoke? The evidence has been out there for years. People don't all avoid something just because they know there could be risks.

Say you live in a bad neighborhood and you take a 100 dollar bill and leave it on your door step. What do you think the cops would do when you tell them you have been robbed

If you walk into a dark alley and get stabbed, cops will take the assault seriously. The fact that you walked down the alley doesn't absolve the attacker. If a girl goes to a party and gets actually raped (not "regret sex" but rape), why should the attacker be absolved just because she went there?

[–]Sawagurumi 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Nobody says the attacker should be absolved in cases of genuine, non-consensual, rape (how crazy has it become that we have to qualify that sentence now?). But that doesn't mean that the victim should not be publicly called out as a complete and utter eejit for putting themselves into a situation where it was bloody obvious to a brain-dead caterpiller that they should have simply avoided the situation. It is called 'acting responsibly', and god forbid that we should demand that women do that.

I'm not a woman, and yet I wouldn't dream of walking home through the streets of my nearest city at 3am blind drunk. If I got robbed or assaulted under those conditions then there was still a crime, and the crime was not perpetrated by me, but people would be correct for calling me out on my utter stupidity even so.

What feminists have done is tell women to be that stupid, because the whole world should change to accommodate their stupidity. That shows that feminism is more about power play and gaining any advantage they can over men, than it is about helping women. But as RedPillSchool astutely points out, it also shows that they themselves don't actually believe their own bullshit statistics.

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Nobody says the attacker should be absolved in cases of genuine, non-consensual, rape

I would have thought this would be obvious, without qualifying it. But then buddy here goes and overreacts to it, even when I qualify I'm not talking about regret sex.

for putting themselves into a situation where it was bloody obvious to a brain-dead caterpiller that they should have simply avoided the situation. It is called 'acting responsibly', and god forbid that we should demand that women do that.

That's an acceptable position only if it's consistent. If we demand that standard, ridiculing women for risk-taking behavior, we should be willing to put the same standards on men. After all, masculinity requires accountability. If a man goes mountain climbing or skydiving or bungee jumping or snowboarding and gets seriously injured, we should laugh at him for being a fucking tard and doing it in spite of the obvious risks, even though it was fun and thrilling. If a man drinks a lot and gets one of the known long-term diseases caused by drinking too much, we should call him a stupid degenerate for putting his body through that, telling him it's his own fault he got cancer. If you're willing to do that, at least it's consistent. But if you find such things extreme, maybe we should be more lenient to women who go to take the risk of going to parties and then get raped.

But as RedPillSchool astutely points out, it also shows that they themselves don't actually believe their own bullshit statistics.

Another very plausible interpretation (that RPS doesn't address) is that, like other risk-taking teenagers who feel invincible, they do fun hedonistic things IN SPITE of it being dangerous, not fully grasping how likely it is they could get hurt. And this isn't exclusive to women. Young men are notorious for taking stupid risks. We know this is human nature. So... even if the statistics were true and they believed them, they might still behave the same way. The behavior doesn't disprove anything.

Remember, it's not that 50% of time a woman goes to a party she gets assaulted. It's 50% through lifetime (and that's probably more "assault" than rape. Actual rape is probably 5% or less). And not all of that 50% may even come from frat parties. For a given instance going to a party, the risk of harm may only be 0.1%. But added up over time, from many parties and bars and dates and other encounters, the chance of any assault occuring somewhere in her lifetime would be much higher. At 0.1% risk per party, sounds pretty safe to go.

[–]Sawagurumi 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

No, your argument doesn't hold. Because while it is certainly true that men do risky things like mountain climbing or skydiving, you will never hear a man who is injured doing these things claiming to be a victim whom society should protect by making mountains safer or the ground less hard. And we do think that he has nobody to blame but himself. If a man gets liver problems because of heavy drinking, again we don't think that it isn't his fault, that he is just a helpless victim. He brought it on himself, we can all agree.

So, if women were saying, 'yeah, I got raped because I was stupid and walked home blind drunk at 3AM' I think people would agree, yet also be sympathetic. But that is not what they do, and not what feminists demand.

So I am being entirely consistent.

[–]PhucCheet -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, your argument doesn't hold. Because while it is certainly true that men do risky things like mountain climbing or skydiving, you will never hear a man who is injured doing these things claiming to be a victim whom society should protect by making mountains safer or the ground less hard. And we do think that he has nobody to blame but himself. If a man gets liver problems because of heavy drinking, again we don't think that it isn't his fault, that he is just a helpless victim. He brought it on himself, we can all agree.

It's fair to say that he doesn't play the victim card the way women do. RPS already went through the incentives to play that card. Still, the point is that if we view a woman with derision for making a risky choice, we should view the man with derision as well. You didn't just say to hold her accountable for making the choice. You used a level of condescending language to describe her that is NOT applied to risk-taking men. As men, we should be willing to eschew hypocrisy and carry the same burden of criticism if we want to dole it out. That was my point.

So, if women were saying, 'yeah, I got raped because I was stupid and walked home blind drunk at 3AM' I think

Wait, are you talking about real rape now instead of "regret sex"? There's so much back and forth.

If real rape, a key difference is that there is an aggressor, another man's actions and criminal intent involved. In the sports accidents, there isn't. What about drunken fights? Or when a group of guys jumps a single guy in the street? Are you saying men should say 'yeah, I got brutally beaten because I was stupid and walked home blind drunk at 3AM'?

If so, you're at least consistent. But most people would place the majority of blame on the group of guys who jumped him.

[–]Sawagurumi 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No no, I am not at any time saying that if someone actually commits rape that this is in any way excusable. I am not saying we should be soft on rapists, absolutely not. But because you put a rapist in jail and throw away the key does not mean that therefore you should just ignore the actions of the victim (and yes, we are talking about actual rape victims here, not regret rape). There is a difference between saying that someones actions are stupid, and that they are a criminal. A rape victim is obviously not a criminal (and therefore has no judicial punishment), but refusing to acknowledge that she made stupid decisions, and supporting her and other women making exactly the same stupid decisions going forward, is crazy. That seems to be what we are doing, though.

As for the condescending language, there is a difference between climbing a mountain for sport (and taking full advantage of training, safety procedures and equipment, etc), and just being an idiot who gets blind drunk in bad circumstances. At least, there is to me. I would take the same attitude towards a man who is that stupid, as I said about my not dreaming that I would stagger home blind drunk at 3am. Man or woman, that is just stupid. The group of men that jump out and beat me up? They are criminals, but I would be stupid for putting myself in that situation. This is not the same as being in a situation that I might reasonably expect was safe but turned out not to be, and it would be the same for a woman raped in that situation. I'm blaming women for being stupid when they actually are stupid, not for every situation where a rape occurs.

[–]PhucCheet -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No no, I am not at any time saying that if someone actually commits rape that this is in any way excusable. A rape victim is obviously not a criminal (and therefore has no judicial punishment), but refusing to acknowledge that she made stupid decisions, and supporting her and other women making exactly the same stupid decisions going forward. That seems to be what we are doing, though.

Alright, this is an important distinction. And you'd think this would be obvious, not need qualifying.

The problem lies in the fact that we rarely know what really happened. For both true rape and false accusations, we have to make a judgment largely based on people's stories. There are incentives to lie in both directions. The most common legal defense for true rape is that it's a false accusation, that it was consensual and excusable. They only blame the girl for being unhappy with the outcome, claim the only fault was her stupid decision and the the guy did nothing wrong. Defense lawyers feed on all the documented false accusations because it just bolsters their defense strategy. They will do everything possible to paint their client's story just like stories of other false accusations to get him off. They may even employ PR agents to spread media messages confirming this story before a trial.

And in the end, the truth gets obscured. Sometimes people say the guy did nothing wrong, she was at fault for getting drunk and making a poor decision, even when it was true rape. Other times people blame the guy and label him a rapist even when it was actually consensual and she was lashing out for some personal gain. BOTH these falsehoods get in the way of justice.

Due to the legal defense strategy and the long history of difficulty prosecuting rape charges, society is reluctant to admit any fault on the woman's part. Because if any fault can be attributed to her at all, then her credibility is shot down in a court of law and a real rapist goes free. So I think it goes beyond being unwilling to hold a vulnerable group accountable. It's an attempt to help real victims get a fair trial. There are legal ramifications to judging the woman's decisions, biasing how jurors rule.

Criminal defense lawyers, and need to respond to their tactics, may largely be at fault for the PC guidelines around what can be said about the victim. It stems from a desire to not undermine the case before it's even tried.

At least, there is to me. I would take the same attitude towards a man who is that stupid, as I said about my not dreaming that I would stagger home blind drunk at 3am. Man or woman, that is just stupid. The group of men that jump out and beat me up? They are criminals, and I would be stupid for putting myself in that situation.

Alright, that's consistent and a reasonable position. I am less judgmental than that in my own personal life, but I accept your reasoning and alternate standards as fair.

[–]Lice138 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Humans are retarded. Why does anyone still smoke? The evidence has been out there for years. People don't all avoid something just because they know there could be risks.

No, but with smoking the risks are understood. It would be retarded in this day and age to blame the tobacco company for your lung cancer.

If you walk into a dark alley and get stabbed, cops will take the assault seriously. The fact that you walked down the alley doesn't absolve the attacker. If a girl goes to a party and gets actually raped (not "regret sex" but rape), why should the attacker be absolved just because she went there?

Where your logic fails is that "regret sex" is rape now. Then you went on to do what so many cucks and feminists try to do, you take an example of regret sex (which is rape these days) and try to warp it into actual rape, its a very unoriginal strawman argument. Do they teach that in feminist studies ?

[–]PhucCheet -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Angry much? You must have been quite a cuck before swallowing RP.

Then you went on to do what so many cucks and feminists try to do, you take an example of regret sex (which is rape these days) and try to warp it into actual rape, its a very unoriginal strawman argument. Do they teach that in feminist studies ?

You just used Strawman, Ad hominem,... Yawn.

No, I'm talking about actual rape, not warping regret sex into rape, lame attempt at a deflection. Do you believe 0 rapes happen at frat parties, it's 100% regret sex? I already said not regret sex. I'm talking about when the girl is UNCONSCIOUS, already passed out, and some frat boy fucks her in some bedroom or bathroom. Or when she gets roofied. That's not regret sex. If she's not conscious it's obviously rape, unless you're retarded.

[–]Lice138 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

ou just used Strawman, Ad hominem,... Yawn.

I don't think you know what those mean...

No, I'm talking about actual rape, not warping regret sex into rape,

Lets review...

But this isn't the same with rape victims. If you ask a "rape" victim why she got black out drunk and naked in her "attackers" house then you are "blaming" the "victim".

If a girl goes to a party and gets actually raped (not "regret sex" but rape), why should the attacker be absolved just because she went there?

I'm talking about when the girl is UNCONSCIOUS, already passed out, and some dude fucks her in some bedroom or bathroom. Or when she gets roofied. That's not regret sex. If she's not conscious it's obviously rape, unless you're retarded.

fuck them in the bathroom? Fuck that, i'll fuck them in the ass, but anyways... I put forth an example of what i was talking about and you went off like a jackass about actual rape, which nobody is confused about. You are retarded, that is not a logical fallacy. Your arguments are horrible and that makes you retarded, your arguments don't suck because you are retarded.

[–]PhucCheet -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think you know what those mean...

You accused me of warping regret sex into actual rape, which I didn't so, hence a Strawman. You made a lame attempt to discredit me based on background ("is that what they teach you in feminist school"), which is an Ad Hominem.

I put forth an example of what i was talking about and you went off like a jackass about actual rape, which nobody is confused about.

The other guy was able to redirect without acting like a jackass. Clearly you weren't. Says a lot about you.

If your metaphor was supposed to be about "regret sex" and not rape, you used a bad one. Leaving a bill out where someone can take it is not a metaphor for regret sex. It's a metaphor for rape. It's just leaving something in a dangerous situation, which still requires an aggressor to come up and take it (e.g. walking down a dark alley and getting stabbed, going to a party and getting drugged and raped). There is no consent or regretted decision. An accurate metaphor for regret sex is "buyers remorse", i.e. getting a tattoo when you're really drunk and then regretting it the next morning. Or giving that $100 to a homeless man when drunk and then sobering it up and wishing you hadn't. Just leaving it there in a dangerous place to be taken is a metaphor for rape, not regret sex, because there is nothing close to consent happening. Any idiot can see that.

[–]Lice138 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You accused me of warping regret sex into actual rape, which I didn't so, hence a Strawman. You made a lame attempt to discredit me based on background ("is that what they teach you in feminist school"), which is an Ad Hominem.

you just bypassed full retard and went straight to potato

The other guy was able to redirect without acting like a jackass. Clearly you weren't. Says a lot about you.

lol cries feminist tears about adhominem, proceeds to do it himself.

I don't care what the other guy did and I don't care if you think I am an asshole.

f your metaphor was supposed to be about "regret sex" and not rape, you used a bad one.

Wow, do you have aspergers or something? "Regret sex" is rape now, don't you get that? You clearly don't

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

you just bypassed full retard and went straight to potato

Do you think throwing insults around makes you seem more alpha? Alpha men can stay calm and have a rational debate. Your feelings are flying around everywhere like a little bitch. Learn to control that shit.

Wow, do you have aspergers or something? "Regret sex" is rape now, don't you get that? You clearly don't

Some feminists call "regret sex" "rape", which is different from them being objectively the same thing.

If you prefer, let's divide rapes into 2 mutually exclusive categories: "regret sex" and "other rape". I was clearly talking about "other rape". Your metaphor applies to rapes in the "other rape" category, not in the "regret sex" category.

If you meant to talk about "regret sex" only, your own metaphor failed. I already showed how. Your own fault. And you didn't mean to do that, then I did not strawman you at all. Now calm yourself.

[–]1kevin32 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

For a lengthy list of false accusations in the media, check out the Men's Rights sub here.

[–]PhucCheet 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I liked where you went with this post.

I don't think proxy power is inherently a bad thing. Children use it too. It's the only way for people who are physically and mentally weaker to get a fair shot at having their needs met over people. It's only bad when a society doles out proxy power to such extremes that it incentivizes exaggerations of victimhood. Ayn Rand nailed the consequences of such extremes in Atlas Shrugged.

Still, I'm troubled by this:

My point in this thought experiment is that the exercise in the first two installments can be done completely in one’s head with no research and very little amount of thought.

Encouraging people to think outside the box and take "taboo" devil's advocate positions is a good thing, an overall win for reason over "consensus science". Too often certain realms of thought are not allowed to be explored.

The problem with staying ENTIRELY in one's head with little thought or research is that it leaves a person biased by only his own experiences and going down the rabbit hole without checking things along the way. Solipsism results.

People should strive to both think originally and also break free of solipsism by considering recounted experiences of others and conducting experiments.

Politicians and celebrities are hung out to dry the minute they might suggest an accusation is false. All rape stories must be believed is our culture’s refrain.

Here's another way to view it: society shouldn't guess before a court has made an official ruling, for rape or any crime. Especially since rape is such a hot media topic and public figures have so much influence, all the publicity has an influence on the jury and witnesses, potentially changing a trial's outcome and corrupting the effectiveness of the justice system.

What's wrong with telling people to stay silent and not accuse someone of lying until all it's all settled in court, based on actual evidence and questioning of witnesses instead of public speculation? We want trial by jury and evidence, not trial by mob.

There's also the risk of deterring real victims from coming forward. False accusers have a 100% chance of coming forward. Real rape victims have a lower chance. The same way male victims of prison rape and child molestation don't all come forward, some women choose not to come forward, due to fear of being retraumatized by sharing the story, fear of everyone finding out about their personal trauma, or fear of an unfair trial. (this was particularly a problem 8+ years ago, maybe less in the last 3 years). Police may tell them not to bother with charges, the state reluctant to take "he said she said" cases to trial. But a lack of witnesses and physical evidence doesn't mean a crime didn't really happen. For things that happen behind closed doors, how likely are there to be witnesses? And a medical exam can't always differentiate between tearing due to rape and tearing due to rough consensual sex.

For the sake of a thought experiment, try to put yourself in this victim's mindset for a second. Even if the rape did really happen, if there were no witnesses and the medical evidence could be spun either way, how could you prove it happened? You may be able to prove intercourse, but he can argue you consented. It's mostly on your word. Then, consider that a defense attorney will use any and everything to discredit your word, whether or not you are actually credible. They are not concerned with truth. They are concerned with discrediting you. If you have an insecure submissive personality, weak frame, it's easy for an attorney to trip you up in your words even if you're speaking truth (alphas must know this already - a strong frame can project a reality onto a weak frame). You lack the frame to assert the truth to someone trying to make you stumble. Then, if you had drinks or wore certain clothing, they might use it against you too. If you lied about anything personal you thought was unrelated to the case and they catch you on it, that also discredits you, even if you were telling the truth about the rape. This has been the reality for true victims for decades. These are rape victims, not professional defendants. It should be easy to understand why some true victims would not come forward and press charges.

False allegations are also a thing. But some true victims also do not come forward.

From a political perspective, politicians want to encourage true victims to come forward and have real offenders charged. Too much discussion about false allegations will make a real victim think the justice system is biased against her and not want to come forward. That said, men shouldn't be charged with crimes they didn't commit just so other victims will come forward with other crimes. There's a critical balance needed here.

Perhaps the best solution is for feminists to be willing to place some blame on women: for them to start shaming the false accusations, so that true rape victims feel safe to come forward, so that the justice system and public isn't so skeptical of real rape cases (allowing rapists to get justly charged), and so that society can better appreciate the true reach of rape and harm caused.

Unfortunately there are opportunists who will piggyback on any movement for personal gain. Proxy power from victimhood rewards some for fabricating claims. Men speaking out against them makes true victims feel attacked, as though they are discredited too. The problem is that neither side can easily distinguish the true ones from the false ones.

You might argue the tide has already swung in favor of rape accusations being taken too seriously. But that's not the whole truth. Consider Brock Turner, someone whom witnesses actually saw raping an unconscious drunk girl. Although he was charged and found guilty, consider how light his sentence was considering the crime he committed. If eyewitnesses actually watching a guy rape a drunk unconscious girl only gets that little jail time, what hope do other real rape victims have in coming forward?

So there needs to be work done, somehow, to more accurately identify which claims are false and which claims are true, and have both men and women weed out the false ones, disincentivizing them from gaming the system, while still making it easy for real victims to come forward and get actual rapists off the streets. But the kneejerk reaction to feminism, labelling most accusations as "false", clearly does not serve the greater purpose of justice.

[–]Sawagurumi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Perhaps the best solution is for feminists to be willing to place some blame on women: for them to start shaming the false accusations, so that true rape victims feel safe to come forward, so that the justice system and public isn't so skeptical of real rape cases (allowing rapists to get justly charged), and so that society can better appreciate the true reach of rape and harm caused.

This is the crux of it, the fact that women are perfectly willing to lie about being raped, supported to the hilt by feminists and the press, and the fact that all too often they get away with it scot free even when it is known that they lied. I don't think we can reasonably expect women not to lie, but if feminists, the press, and the courts, came down hard on those found to be lying, and the accused kept anonymous unless and until they are found guilty (the same as the accuser), then I think we would all happily be willing to take accusers seriously again, and without the scepticism that is a valid response to the number of false accusations we see. That in turn helps actual victims.

[–]PhucCheet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

That in turn helps actual victims.

Yes, in full agreement with you on this.

Perhaps the problem is that the rape victims are not the lead feminists or the press. The lead feminists and press have power, at least the power to sway public opinion and influence policy. Victims only have proxy power by appealing to these people to advocate for them.

The problem is that things achieved through proxy power come with strings attached, and can be warped. The feminist movement leaders themselves don't have the same interests. Their interest is getting more people to join the movement, getting media attention, influencing policy, getting their names out. They have a vested interest in pushing false claims, even though real victims don't. Similarly, the press makes money off controversy. So the parties with power have different interests than the victims, but the victims are forced to work through them.

[–]Sawagurumi 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yes, that is a problem. But you talk about rape victims, but the problem is all the women who are not victims but pretend to be. Once you have those, then the problem is society's response to them, which is basically to enable them, to the detriment of real victims. But yeah, feminists, looking to make political capital from rape cases, are a problem for actual rape victims

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, that is a problem. But you talk about rape victims, but the problem is all the women who are not victims but pretend to be.

The point was that the real victims have to get proxy power through these third parties, but the third parties gain more power themselves by failing to weed out the pretend victims, thus the only way real victims can get support for now is by letting the feminists give credence to these false victims too. And so the falsehood spreads.

But it starts with the real victims, because there's no one giving them an alternate option. The legal system certainly doesn't. Prosecutors hate trying rape charges, since they're so hard to prove. If there was an alternative, they wouldn't have to work through feminist media, and they would have not grown so strong and had the ability to propagate the falsehoods too.

[–]Sawagurumi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think I see what you are saying, but I would disagree that real victims get proxy power through third parties. At least, they may have done for a while, but because of high profile false rape cases, they are actively working against real victims now, since we legitimately are more sceptical of women who make accusations. Kanin found that over 40% of accusations brought to the police were false, but he had tight criteria - they actually had to admit that they lied. Most won't do that. Coupled with the fact that just about every high profile case that we come across turns out to be a hoax supports the idea that in fact most accusations are false.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb03SnhHOM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qa5kQbUl5_o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op4scME3Ym4

https://archive.is/dXAQe

etc

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Interesting.

Higher up in my post I stated that 100% of false accusers come forward but only some true victims come forward. This biases the numbers both ways. For example, if someone is claiming 10% of women are raped, 6/10 of them might be lying, but there might be another 6% of women who were really raped but didn't press charges. Or more than 6%. Or less. It's so hard to know. So on the one hand, we know false accusations are a real problem, but rape could also be a widespread problem too. The two don't negate each other.

[–]Sawagurumi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree that both are a problem, but also that false accusations are a problem for real rape. But I guess we agree on this and needn't belabor the point. Where we disagree is your statement that 100% of false accusers come forward. It depends on your definition, I guess, but I think that it is actually safer for accusers to not report to the police, but only to, eg college authorities or a peer group, or your manager. We have seen this many times, and the effect is pretty devasting even without the jail term, because we still tend to assume that 'we must believe victims'. What we are learning is that actually, no we do not. We believe evidence, and we know that women are prepared to lie about this. I also take RedPillSchool's argument that rape simply cannot be as common as feminists and the media would have us believe, because women's behaviour (even feminists' behaviour) gives a lie to it. So no, I don't think for a moment that the number of women that don't report real rape comes anywhere near the number of reported cases that are false.

And yes, I take your point that it tends to happen in private and thus be difficult to prove. Then again, assaults and robberies, burglaries, all tend not to take place in the middle of a crowd of witnesses, and rape leaves real DNA evidence.

It isn't an easy situation, I don't think anyone believes it is. We must give justice to those that are harmed, and we must protect the innocent. But this isn't as one-sided as feminists and the press would have us believe. If most rape accusations are false, as I believe they are (you may disagree), then the innocent victims here are not women. And the trouble is that there is bias in the system which I would have removed. Make false rape accusers take the punishment that would have been given to their victim, and I think things become much clearer. This is a response to the tendency for women to use a rape claim for multiple purposes, and is a better solution than the islamic one of requiring two male witnesses (which is a response to the same observed phenomenon, I think).

Anyway, even though we don't agree on all details, you make a reasoned case, and I thank you for a decent argument on what is all too often an emotive subject. There is no perfect answer.

[–]PhucCheet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I also thank you for a well reasoned discussion, not always common.

Yeah, different definition of coming forward. I meant not to police but media, campus organizations, feminists, etc. False accusers are attention seekers. By definition their goal is to tell. Real victims don't always.

The reason rape is difficult to prove (and you can confirm this by speaking with any prosecutor) is twofold: it happens behind closed doors (lack of witnesses) AND it hinges on the issue of consent. The double whammy is the kicker. Consent is hard to prove or disprove without witnesses. It's "he said she said." That doesn't apply to burglaries, assaults, robberies. For those, the prosecution just has to prove the event physically took place. That part is not hard in rape either (DNA, rape kit, photos of injuries, etc, although there isn't always DNA if she delays in seeing a doctor or he wears a condom). However, they also have to prove lack of consent, that it wasn't just consensual rough sex or that she was unconscious at the time.

To convict of a robbery, you just have to show something was stolen. You don't also have to prove that the person didn't consent to the theft ahead of time. That part is taken for granted. Same with assault. You just have to show bruises and confirm the attacker was involved. You don't have to prove there wasn't prior consent to leave bruises. Proving the physical side is much easier, can be supported by hard physical evidence. The consent side is murkier, based on believing people's stories, which is incredibly subjective.

Due to the need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, you need an airtight victim who has perfect frame, 0 holes in her story, 0 sins that can be used for character assassination. Otherwise the defense can introduce reasonable doubt. And that's all that's required to get a rapist off. They dont have to prove consent or prove the event didn't happen. Just introduce the possibility of doubt. A conviction requires no doubt, and that's an extremely high burden on the prosecution for a crime committed behind closed doors and based on "he said she said". So no, there really is no comparable crime (courtroom wise) to rape, and any prosecutor will back that up. It's uniquely hard to prove.

That reality causes police and prosecutors to deter victims from filing charges unless there is nothing the defense could exploit for doubt, keeping a lot of true victims in silence.

I personally know of many who did not file charges for that reason, and I can confirm they were actually victims. I used to be much more skeptical about rape claims like you guys until I started meeting more true rape victims, listening to their stories, listening to witnesses who saw enough to convince me it was an assault and not regret sex, watching certain guys try to rape drunk girls who couldn't stand up straight. And these girls weren't attention seekers - none of them went public or filed charges. Then, my old beliefs no longer meshed with real life observations. But it's easy for male solipsism to prevent us from acknowledging these possibilities since we don't experience them ourselves or see other men doing it.

It's important to remember nothing RPS said empirically and objectively shows unreported rapes are rare. It's just theoretical speculation, assuming women respond rationally to threats, when every other part of RP teaches that women are not always rational. So I think men should keep an open mind about the possibility of unreported rapes until concrete evidence speaks either way.

Either way, thanks for the discussion.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem with staying ENTIRELY in one's head with little thought or research is that it leaves a person biased by only his own experiences and going down the rabbit hole without checking things along the way. Solipism results.

I don't suggest staying in your head for the reasoning taking place in this third installment. I wanted to help boost people's ability to recognize and understand the confusion or cognitive dissonance with self-reliance.

[–]ransay3277 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

First question to ask a woman who claims to have been raped... How many years did he get? If the answer is none: run.

[–]PhucCheet 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

So by your logic, if a man is not found guilty of rape in court and sentenced, no rape occurred?

You realize that's not even how the justice system works, right, and that judges will acknowledge this in their statements.

[–]nodoxsavefreespeech 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The better question to ask is "did you report it to the police".

All public rape claims are false. Nobody that was REALLY raped brings it up casually.

[–]PhucCheet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Many people who are really raped don't report it to the police though, so how is that test useful?

Let's step back from the heated issue of men vs feminists and false rape accusations and refer to a different issue. What about men who are raped in prison or molested by priests as altar boys? Do 100% of them come forward to the police right away? Or ever? No. Why? Think about it.

Wouldn't the same reasons apply to some female rape victims? Or are women somehow supposed to be more rational than men?

[–]nodoxsavefreespeech 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ok... let's say you are a man and were raped in prison or by a priest. Do you bring it up casually?

All public rape accusations are false.

[–]PhucCheet 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, don't misunderstand me, I agree about the casual part making it suspicious. Some true victims will disclose to close friends in confidence. They're doubtful to go public about it without filing a police report though, absolutely. I just meant that not all true victims will file reports either.

But if they're all over the media and not filing reports, highly suspicious.

[–]1kevin32 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are well aware that men are held to a different standard of conduct than women. From childhood men are conditioned to "Be strong", "Boys don't cry", "Be a man". Women get no such conditioning and are treated as the "weaker sex", dependent on men to achieve her aims.

So men who don't report rape do so out of pride. They perceive they'll be called "pussies" for coming forward. Women who don't report legitimate rape do so out of fear, followed by depression, because real rape is violent and traumatic. The rape scene from the Irreversible film depicts this.

The point of saying "All women lie about rape" is to spotlight that when the average woman does come forward to make a rape accusation, the evidence and her behavior don't match the accusation. Police couldn't find sufficient evidence that a rape occurred when they sampled her body using a rape kit (no hair follicles, skin cells, bruises, scratchmarks, etc). And in those instances where the accused admits sex occurred, there is no evidence of a struggle, suggesting it was sex she later regretted. Then when you watch her actions after the accusation, she's out socializing and clubbing and jovial to say she was recently raped.

You want to hear that some rapes occur, but the emphasis being made is that false accusations greatly overshadow any legitimate rapes, which suggests ironically that in a culture where women are supposedly raped all the time, rape is the one crime where a man truly is innocent until proven guilty.

[–]ransay3277 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually no, I don't think that. But the question will elicit a lot more information. Rape is a serious matter. Those that truly commit it should "go away for awhile." A long while. But at the same time there are a rash of hoax's. I just don't want my fellow man's life ruined because she regrets that two nights ago she was tied face down and blindfolded while she cried "do me daddy!" as he's power slamming her back door that she begged him to do 5 minutes earlier. Fair enough?

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That makes some level of sense, if we assumed that rape was the one crime victims didn’t want to report.

It IS the one crime where whether a crime was committed relies entirely on credibility of the victim's testimony, due to the unique aspect of "consent" that is not present in other major crimes.

That makes it substantially harder to prove. It's easy to prove sex happened. It's harder to prove it was nonconsensual. But you don't have to prove a murder victim didn't consent to murder... Most other crimes can rely harder on physical evidence, not subjective testimony (which is prone to "reasonable doubt"). That makes rape uniquely hard to prosecute.

[–]Evancollamer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"All weak people revel in their victimhood, it is the foundation of their identity." Fuck.Yes.

[–]Thewelshpill 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

She lives in a constant state of disaster that plays on a man's desire to lend power. It may seem baffling to him that no amount of power he lends seems to fix the endless string of calamity that is her life. What he's missing is that drama is her source of power. Discord is the dynamic that powers the weak. All weak people revel in their victimhood, it is the foundation of their identity.

best thing i've read on this sub, reminds me of my exes story of how she was drugged and raped at a night club....

"i know i was drugged because i passed out in the club toilets..."

"...and why would someone drug me if they weren't going to rape me?"

[–]Malkard 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Another thing is the incentive for reporting rape. I dated one rape victim. She was more cautious to not put herself in dangerous situations, or at least showed worry when she did. Then when we started having sex, there were regular panic attacks, and also nightmares. Let's just say the evidence was compellinging enough for me to believe her.

She did not report it to the police and when you think about it, why would she?

  • She'd have to relive the traumatic event, have her credibility and character challenged publicly.

  • It would imply pissing someone who was capable of violent behaviour, someone who had threatened her life to keep her silent. Even if she got a conviction, that guy would be out in a few years and she'd have to look over her shoulder all the time.

  • Even if she does get justice, she still has to live with the psychological trauma. She doesn't get "reparations" like other crimes, there is no undoing what happened.

Reporting this crime, when you're a true victim, has two potential benefits that I see which, in my opinion, are dwarfed by the downfalls stated above:

  • You get a sense of "relief" from sending your attacker to jail, and having justice done. I can't speak as a true victim, but when I try to imagine some other major wrongdoing, punishing the wrongdoer doesn't seem like it's that big a boon for the victim. You're still stuck with the consequences.

  • You might get to save other potential victims.

On the other hand, if you're a false accuser, your morality is questionable at best. Your solipsism is high enough to withstand public challenge. Your "attacker" has not proven himself to be capable of violence (yet). She has no psychological trauma to live with. You get to have power over someone who, presumably, pissed you off, and you get to play the victim with all the pity and attention that comes with it.

This only takes care of the black and white cases (the true victim, and the malicious bitch). I can't even imagine all the gray areas in between, for example drunk (but not unconscious) sex where , legally, consent cannot be given.

[–]goldnhorde 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now I see why you liked my comments from the last two segments regarding fraternities, accountability, and risk management.

The statement of "Using YOUR numbers .... over 35% of our nations sexual assault cases would disappear ... if women didn't go to Frat Parties .... you're not there .. it doesn't happen .. 35% gone , just like that ... nationwide".

now you would think that if you knew any ONE ACTION that could eliminate 35% of any type of violent crime ... or fatal illness .... or any type of horrible event .... that this is a no brainer.

nope. why?

because women truly believe that they are due free drinks. that is the biggest response I get when putting the frat question line to a woman. they go there for free drinks. what's the problem .... give me free drinks. why are we going .... free drinks.

when I pressed a scenario on a woman I was speaking with, I said .... if I knew a heavy crime area where there was a 35%chance of me getting shot ... I would at a safe distance all the way around that area , safely, on my way home. Understanding the point that was made earlier .... and the paralleled I was making ... she began to go into a diatribe about how the police should have to go to that area and make it safe for me.

"Free Drinks"

this conversation that I have had multiple times with multiple women would lead me to believe the above ... all women know this statistic is complete and utter rubbish and act accordingly until it is time to dust off the party line and support the claims that they are profiting from.

[–]Katavasis 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very insightful.Also,very 'dangerous' knowledge that can get you in real problem if discussed publically.

On another note,immigration and rapes are a very hot topic,highjacked by both left and right political parties. We hear every day about Europe getting raped but now it's coming from the more conservative brackets of political thoughr,in contrast with the American rape culture that comes from the other side.

Raises a lot of questions. Let's say that there is indeed a rape epidemic.Why the left does not report it?Do they sacrifice one of their narratives to support something bigger? Now let's say that there is not a rape epidemic.It would be obvious why the right would push that and i guess the left has nothing to gain to 'manufacture' a rape culture since they are minorities.But can you see the double standard?Many of these immigrants ARE coming from an actual rape culture.

My POV is that there are not THAT many rapes happening in Europe.And to connect the subject to the original post,the rapes that ARE happening are reported and although individual behaviour change,the behaviour of the respected countries don't.

[–]teeelo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Okie doke.

Rps I hope you read this because I gotta ask you to ask yourself if you're not gerbiling like crazy.

We've often talked about a woman's superpower of being able to use her hamster to rationalize some bizarre conclusion to justify their actions.

Are you sure you're not creating 4 chapters of mental gymnastics yourself to try and get us to come to the same bizarre conclusion?

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you try reading it?

[–]teeelo 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will and I trust you.

I swear I didn't have that knee jerk reaction to the concept either.

[–]88Will88 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is at risk of saying nothing by saying too much and covering too many nuances (something which I am regularly guilty of). Are you an ENTP?

[–]wub1234 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (29子コメント)

Another possible explanation for the number of rape accusations which don't even make it to court, let alone result in conviction, is that rape is extremely difficult to prove legally even when it has actually happened. For example, here is this issue being discussed in The Independent. Here are hundreds and hundreds of links discussing this on Google. This is a rather simpler explanation, which most people accept, that doesn't require thousands and thousands of words of pseudo-philosophy.

Of course, it is correct that in a case with doubts that there should be a not guilty verdict, and this should not change. But this is why it is so difficult to prosecute rape, and the conviction rate is extremely low, as far as I know lower than for any other crime.

Failing to acknowledge this does not represent swallowing a red pill, it represents ignoring the bleeding obvious.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I mean, you could've just written "I didn't read it, listen to me!"

[–]wub1234 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (18子コメント)

I can tell that you're a good writer, that is quite evident. But I don't think you can discuss rape without acknowledging that rape convictions are extremely difficult to get (which I largely agree with). In fact, this should be a primary point in any discussion of rape.

Instead, at one point you stated:

Even if we assume that rape convictions are hard to get due to lack of proof

Even if we assume? Suggesting that this somehow isn't the case! It definitely is the case for really obvious reasons.

The conviction rate for rape is entirely defined by the fact that it's difficult to get a conviction. Indeed, most accusations get nowhere near court because there is no usable evidence. Only cases where police and prosecutors believe that the woman has a strong case get to court.

Rape is not defined by women's attempts to gain some sort of cultural power. It is wrong that these laws are changing in the UK, I strongly oppose this. But you have to acknowledge, as a primary point, that rape is almost impossible to prove and that conviction rates are low precisely for this reason above all else.

I just wanted to point that out, I'm not a RPer, please go back to your discussions.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (14子コメント)

This isn't really a refutation of my point.

My point is that the number of actual rapes doesn't match the anonymous statistics.

There are many prongs to my point, some of which you have pulled out of context here.

[–]OneWonder 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't know if u/wub1234 meant to emphasize and literally prove your point but it explains the hamstering that will exist when people are faced with logical fallacies surrounding rape. They're focusing on the legal repercussions of this horrific crime when that is not the reality. It's not even the point you're trying to get across.

The idea of a perpetual invisible threat that a man CAN rape a woman is enough to change the social stigma surrounding interactions between genders. If women as a whole can play victim, even if there's only 5-7% convictions of rapes sent to court, then what's the consequence for women to make false accusations. Coincidentally, I believe this user is furthering your point by using "facts" that show the amount of rape accusations do not match the amount of convictions from a legal perspective when you are listing the pros and cons surrounding rape from a societal perspective.

Also, it's worth mentioning that your Red Flag 2 was hard to understand at first as to what was benefiting whom. From what I understand, essentially you are saying that if the statistics were under represented rather than hypothetically over represented it would benefit rapists as they could then fly below the radar.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree, Red Flag two was a bit confusingly worded. I tried rewording it.

[–]wub1234 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (11子コメント)

My point is that the number of actual rapes doesn't match the anonymous statistics.

We don't know this. We just don't know because it's one person's word against another.

Anyway, good luck with your posts, you're a good writer.

[–]Lo-G 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

He provided actual proof in his post. Did you even read it or did you stop at the exact point when your cognitive dissonance made your feelings feel weird?

[–]wub1234 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

I don't really want to get into a big discussion about this.

But there is no cognitive dissonance. It is just a fact that rape is extremely difficult to prove, it is also a fact that many cases never get to court because there is no usable evidence, and in fact police and prosecutors will only advance strong cases.

I didn't even mention the fact that women are often put through a pretty horrible ordeal when appearing in court, and yet at the end of it, even if they have been raped, their chances of prosecution are about 5-7% (in the UK, at least).

That isn't contentious in any way, I don't see how anyone can possibly object to those statements, most of which are factual.

[–]Lo-G -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

You're comparing apples to oranges. Even if you point were true. It's not relevant to the point of this post. The fact that you're not even willing to address that indicates to me that you stopped reading halfway through. The point of this post is not to diminish the struggle of women that have actually been raped. The point is that the likelihood of a woman saying she has been raped when no such thing happened, is much larger than you would've thought in advance.

(the second point of this post is to generate controversy so TRP gets more views, but that's irrelevant)

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The point is that the likelihood of a woman saying she has been raped when no such thing happened, is much larger than you would've thought in advance.

Well, this depends on your reference point, what you believed in advance. I'd have assumed most RP guys would have already believed many accusations were false. This isn't the first thread about false rape accusations. Given the argument above, is the likelihood really greater than what those people believed before? There's only evidence and conjecture that SOME are, but no good way to quantify how many. It's enough to convince the likelihood is greater than what most feminists believe, but that's also not the audience it was written to.

[–]wub1234 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Even if you point were true.

My point is true. It's emphatically correct. It is not even open to debate.

The point is that the likelihood of a woman saying she has been raped when no such thing happened, is much larger than you would've thought in advance.

But we just don't know this. Even if a case goes to court and there is no conviction, we don't know that no rape took place. All we know is that there was insufficient evidence to convict. Because rape is hard to prove. Which is well known, and my whole point.

[–]OFAFV 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

So you agree that 1/2 of women have been "sexually assaulted and 1/5 were raped"? Dont you think if these were true women would behave differently?

[–]1kevin32 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

most accusations get nowhere near court because there is no usable evidence...rape is almost impossible to prove and that conviction rates are low precisely for this reason above all else.

So there are these things called "rape kits" that the police use on the victim to find evidence of rape against the accused.

If a woman was really raped, then she would go straight to the police and have them gather evidence off her person that connects to her assailant.

The reason there is "no usable evidence" is because no rape occurred. They couldn't find a single hair follicle or skin cell of the accused on her person. And in those cases where the accused admits sex occurred, there is "no usable evidence" that he had sex with her against her will (i.e. struggle-fucking), which suggests she regretted sex that was consensual.

Real rapists don't make love to their victims in the comfort of home. They take them violently in outside environments and leave evidence of a struggle. Women can't fabricate a violent rape so they play the "he said she said" game.

[–]PhucCheet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Real rapists don't make love to their victims in the comfort of home. They take them violently in outside environments and leave evidence of a struggle.

Are you trolling or joking?

[–]wub1234 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Really. So there is a 5-7% conviction rate for rape (which is just strong cases that get to court). So we know that 93-95% of rape accusations are definitely false? And that even though it is widely acknowledged that rape is difficult to prove, by legal experts, we can completely ignore this and just assume that every single woman who fails to prove rape in court is lying?

This is why I don't want to get into a discussion. I won't post any more, you can believe whatever you want.

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

"It's hard to get a rape conviction"

Well no shit. No one believes the statistics. No one's actions represent the "facts" we are being told. Not the judges, not the jury, not the attorney, not even the woman. It's a power play drawn out to just be another way to put betas in their place and essentially neutering them. If it were true you wouldn't waste your time trying to refute the "obvious". You do not understand enough of TRP to try and divulge on this topic. Also this is part 3. Read the other parts first.

[–]wub1234 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Seems a bit aggressive and dismissive, my friend, considering I was simply pointing out an irrefutable fact.

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's simply not science. When someone gets shot by a murderer they go to the hospital. When someone gets robbed they call the police and normally they're roughed up. The bruises and wounds are evidence for the crime. Rape leaves evidence as well.

A reply above says rape kits are a thing, albeit this could be a new concept to you. Unless the victim is drugged (which can also be tested for) I don't understand the numbers you're using. It's just another BP "statistic" being thrown out with words like "irrefutable". In the first part of this post OP said, "What if you went to the moon and learned it's inhabited by moon men and you can breathe on it." You would be dismayed to the point of mental breakdown. This is the pill you cannot swallow as you have been conditioned to not even converse on the subject without questioning your own beliefs. All of us here were not born red pill. We live and have been conditioned in a blue pill world. We are the ones who ask the questions and provide hypotheses when things seem malignant while society, and pundits like you tell us the "answers".

[–]wub1234 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't really understand why you're getting annoyed with me, when I have been perfectly polite.

I'm just pointing out that rape is difficult to prove. This is nothing to do with BP or RP, it's just a fact.

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't think you understand much to be honest. You need to spend more time on more educational subreddits before trying to hamster here.

TRP is stoic. Facts and time tested hypotheses are all that matters. You do not mention any facts other than a google search and a sad independent article that says the author struggles with facing the reality surrounding rape. Even with no details provided in the article I can guesstimate that the courts did their job as a jury needs to whole fully agree that someone is guilty. Obviously, there were not enough facts because the case they were a juror for found the defendant Not Guilty. Not enough evidence at the scene could be one reason, or the victims story had holes in it, or even the defendant had a trustworthy alibi. All of the what if's I listed are more "factual" than what you have provided.

[–]wub1234 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Go and ask any legal professional and they will tell you that rape is difficult to prove. Go and ask one now.

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Why can't I just ask you? Why is rape hard to prove?

Because u/redpillschool just outlined how the statistics alone do not match other violent crimes or descartes principles of existence.

[–]wub1234 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would simply be repeating myself. And then you would say "well, you don't know what you're talking about anyway". So not really a worthwhile usage of my time.

[–]1kevin32 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

She gives up little or no social value for the use of a man's power. She is a leach. The man is left feeling duped when he hands over use of his power for nothing in return.

Men who have been friendzoned know this all too well, yet they're accused of being the manipulative ones.

Instead of trading affection or sex for proxy power, now women can claim to deserve that access by default.

This is what women mean when they say "You are not owed sex for anything."

Making a claim that they are indeed directly affected by the statistic ensures their piece of the power pie is reserved; the repetition of these stories is a broadcast for social status.

What happens when dozens of women come forward to claim "assault" by a celebrity; attention-whoring and gold-digging masked as "strength in numbers".

Normal rape changed from an attack by a stranger hiding in the bushes to consensual sex that a woman regrets the next day.

And when American women discuss rape situations among themselves, they find themselves needing to make the distinction by saying "rape" and "rape rape".

So if a woman describes having been assaulted or raped, and she believes the rape statistics, why would she then engage in a behavior that invalidates the belief? The answer: She does not believe the statistics, and likely doesn’t believe her own story. Her actions are inconsistent with a real victim.

A good way to determine if a woman was actually raped in the absence of physical evidence is to watch her actions. If she was raped on a Friday night - and by "rape" I mean forced to engage in penetrative sex against her will - then we can reasonably expect that she would behave in a way that is consistent with someone who experienced such a traumatic event.

What behaviors you ask? The most common are depression, conservative clothing with no makeup, and being anti-social. And these behaviors should span months or longer depending on the severity of violence involved in her rape.

But if only a week later she's still wearing the same slutty clothes, hanging out at the bars and clubs, and laughing and being a social media slut, it's a good chance her rape was a lie.

[–]mochiamania 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Women (and men) respond to rape differently. Some choose not to report even if they are raped because they were assaulted by a person who is violent/powerful, some choose not to because "I can get over it, it's fine". Some women report because they truly were raped and were educated to do rape kits ASAP aaaaaand the last is the manipulative bitches who can't even decide between regret and being a pillow queen.

[–]killermike-el-P -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"What do we do with this information?" Before you said that I was starting to think you thought of us as your personal diary in which you wrote your philosophies.

[–]Modredpillschool[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

"What do we do with this information?" Before you said that I was starting to think you thought of us as your personal diary in which you wrote your philosophies.

That's exactly what you are to me. What are you doing interrupting me?

[–]OneWonder -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What men need to start doing is when a woman says they have been raped or sexually assaulted and follow up that they didn't report it to the police they should be instantly ghosted. Like modern day lepers. Don't give them any ammo once you've heard this as well. Just nod and ghost.

Soon enough they will learn that no alphas will take the risk of a prison sentence to fuck them when they spit out this crap. It's quite a contradiction that they can go to social media and post that men should be held accountable but then won't go to the authorities to report the real crime.

[–]twistedmac11 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So men should automatically assume that every woman who says she's been raped is lying, and should avoid any future contact with her?

Also, have you just happened to miss all the reasons why real rape victims don't always report the crime to police? Or are you choosing to be that dense?

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nope just alphas who don't want to be sent to jail or face repercussions both socially and professionally by their peers.

Instead of using hyperbole such as "all of the reasons" you would be better off actually listing the reasons if you actually wanted your point to come across. The only reason I can think of is ASD but that is a result of the Female Imperative.

[–]twistedmac11 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So, alpha men who don't want to be sent to jail or face repercussions should avoid women who say they have been raped? That sounds like you're implying that women who say they've been raped will cry rape when unhappy with their next beau as well.

To be honest, I have no idea what ASD is. A main reason of not reporting rape would be because it would be a he-said-she-said type of situation. He could claim it was consensual, even if it wasn't. If she doesn't have evidence for every single aspect of her claim, then there's no way for it to be proven in court. Another reason not to report rape would be the stigma that many still hold: "she asked for it". She was dressed like a slut, she flirted with him, she acted like she wanted it all up until the moment and then changed her mind, etc are all excuses that many make to excuse how the perpetrator acted.

In fact, you yourself just acted in a way that proves my point. You said men should "ghost" women who say they've been raped. How does this promote an environment where women feel comfortable reporting rape?

[–]OneWonder 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

No I'm saying alphas should not even try to comprehend or deal with a woman who said they were raped but did not report it to the police. Not only do they risk that it could have previously been a false accusation and it could happen again. But they also risk taking on a woman with other emotional and rationality issues for not going to the police.

Also I personally don't understand how there is no evidence in a violent crime like rape. In a shooting there is a gun wound. In armed robbery the victim is roughed up. And in a rape they look for DNA under fingernails, both the victim and the defendants clothing, and also their sexual organs. There is not an excuse to not go to the police if the victims want to see their perpetrators behind bars.

Also quizzically enough they won't go to the police but have no problem blasting it on social media. This is why this post is being made. The facts and actions of women do not match the statistics.

No man should ghost, hard next, or verbally abuse a woman who actually got raped and tried in the court of law. That is horrible. Only women who pull this crap should be hard nexted causing them to only find a beta or not make false accusations.

[–]twistedmac11 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah, okay, I see what you're saying now, although I still don't necessarily agree. The defendant could easily say the sex was consensual, albeit rough - rough doesn't equal rape. There are people who role play rape fantasies during sex, and, theoretically, the physical effects from that sex would look similar to the physical effects from rape. All it takes is a good defense attorney for the rapist to go free. I haven't even mentioned the psychological distress that would go along with essentially having to relive the rape throughout the trial. Plus the fact that any good defense attorney will try to discredit the accuser - meaning the victim's reputation will be dragged through the mud (she asked for it; she shouldn't have dressed the way she did, etc). All of that, and the rapist could still go free, but you find it hard to believe that real rape victims wouldn't report the crime? Yikes.

Also, you say that only women who are crying rape for show should be hard nexted. How would you propose a woman talk to a man about how she was raped? Should she bring court documents that prove she took the perp to court? I mean really.

EDIT: I would like to add that I am under no illusions about women falsely reporting rape, and those women absolutely need to be dealt with accordingly. My issue lies with assuming that real victims are liars based on whether or not they pressed charges against the perp.

An interesting article by Time magazine, definitely worth reading: [Why Victims of Rape in College Don't Report to the Police](time.com/2905637/campus-rape-assault-prosecution/) This is pointed towards college students, but the information in it can be applied to many other rape victims as well.