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[–]rdesai724 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (1子コメント)

link to the original (in english) Quartz calculation that is being referenced by Le Monde

Notes:

They do acknowledge the negative/zero wealth issue

"It is worth noting that almost 13% of American households have zero or negative wealth because of debt, so we are adding together these households with those that have at least some wealth."

They offer an alternative using median household wealth as the measure

"Even if we just compare the wealth of Trump’s cabinet to the median household, it is still an impressive concentration of riches. It would take about 120,000 households with the the United States median net worth of about $83,200 to match the wealth of just the four richest members of Trump’s cabinet—Betsy DeVos, Wilbur Ross Jr., Linda McMahon, and Rex Tillerson."

[–]HeyIJustLurkHere 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for linking to the original. This is awful r/dataisbeautiful content: it's a misleading statistic inside a foreign-language article that is only aggregated content from a different site. It has one "graph", if you can call it that, which is a single box to represent 109 million, with little lines to represent 10, 50 and 100 million. That's it. And for some reason the url says 126 instead of 109 million, probably because they initially copied the wrong statistic from the original Quartz article, using the number for the total number of households in the US rather than the estimate arrived at by number of households under that value multiplied by average household size. There is one single piece of data here and even in words it's misleading, the graphical content is not beautiful or even informative ("boy, that sure is a big box" is the only message here), and it's removed from the original source, which at least provided some useful content and caveats. I'm appalled by Trump too, but we don't need to upvote posts solely for being anti-Trump if they're otherwise awful content for the sub.

About the points in your comment, which I appreciate you adding:

They do acknowledge the negative/zero wealth issue "It is worth noting that almost 13% of American households have zero or negative wealth because of debt, so we are adding together these households with those that have at least some wealth."

It's a little unclear what they're doing here. Are they counting each of those households as $0 each, in which case someone with $1 to their name would be richer than 13% of households? Or are they counting those as negative, such that you have to add a ton of households just to get back up to 0, in which case someone with $1 to their name might be richer than something like 20% of households? (idk how many percentage points of barely-above-0 people you'd need to add to cancel out the debt of the bottom 13%, but I could imagine it being significant.) *(further note below)

They offer an alternative using median household wealth as the measure "Even if we just compare the wealth of Trump’s cabinet to the median household, it is still an impressive concentration of riches. It would take about 120,000 households with the the United States median net worth of about $83,200 to match the wealth of just the four richest members of Trump’s cabinet—Betsy DeVos, Wilbur Ross Jr., Linda McMahon, and Rex Tillerson."

Note the difference between these two results. 109 million and 120,000 might sound similar when you're skimming really fast and saying the numbers aloud, they have the same rhythm to them syllable-by-syllable, but they're 1000x apart. Before, they said over 1/3 of all households, and then translated that to a number of people. Now, they give a number of households just under one-tenth of 1%. Before, it was "Trump's cabinet has as much wealth as the total of every household from the 0th percentile to the 34th percentile of the income distribution"; by this measure, it's "Trump's cabinet has as much wealth as the total of every household from the 49.95th percentile to the 50.05th percentile". Both may be true, but the first implies a very different thing from the second, and really, the fact that the second is true completely undermines the implication they're sending with the first.

*One further caveat on the debt thing; if someone truly has more debt than they have assets, tangible and intangible, then it makes sense to count them there. I believe in most cases that's just bankruptcy, though. Most of the cases you see where someone has more debt than assets are student debt, especially for something like med school or law school. In that case, someone takes on debt in order to get a higher-earning career later; their diploma and expertise is non-transferrable and therefore hard to put a dollar value on it, but it certainly shouldn't be 0. Student debt can be very burdensome, no doubt, but if your metric is saying that the single poorest people in the entire US (or in the entire world, really, as it is in the worst abuses of this statistic) are young doctors and lawyers, it is at best "technically correct" but clearly missing something important.

[Edit: Just added a link to this article. It's even worse than I'd thought, The people at the very bottom aren't just doctors and lawyers with student debt, it includes stock traders with a net worth numbering in the negative hundreds of millions or billions of dollars (yes, the linked man is French, as it's responding to a global statistic, but I'm sure there are similar Americans). The bottom 30% of the world has negative $500 Billion dollars in net worth, which will undoubtedly take another huge group just to bring back up to 0. I'm sure there's a similar dynamic happening here, where the .1% with the most negative net worth would take another 10% or so just to bring back up to 0.]

[–]skinbearxett 162 ポイント163 ポイント  (5子コメント)

He drained the swamp so he could get to the really thick scum at the bottom.

[–]borbag 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Don't many Americans have negative net values? You know with all their credits and shit

[–]But__Whole 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shots fired.

opens collection notice from the mail

[–]Moikee 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is this number inclusive of those individuals? I'm quite sure millions of americans are deep in credit card debt.

[–]bayoubevo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It seems the floor upon which many in the middle class stand has some rotton support beams.

[–]north_country_bandit 257 ポイント258 ポイント  (41子コメント)

He drained the swamp, then promptly refilled it with bigger, more scary swamp monsters.

[–]newage2k10 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (3子コメント)

you know he later said doing a rally that it sounded catchy so he ran with it...just a campaign thing....

[–]Literally_A_Shill 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He straight up said he didn't even like it and only started to say it like he meant it after it actually caught on among his supporters. Then his supporters clapped at being conned.

He's straight up mocking the people he conned and they love him for it.

[–]Roosebumps 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He drained the swamp into the churning blood trench surrounding his tower

[–]ubsr1024 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (8子コメント)

More like, he got rid of the parasites and replaced them with alligators.

[–]Mako109 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I dunno about you, but if I'm going to be screwed by something, might as well be alligators. At least then I can see who's doing it, and try and skin em later. Parasites? Nigh impossible to detect yourself, and even harder to be truely rid of.

We replaced a big problem with another, easier to see big problem.

[–]9xInfinity [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Setting your house on fire to get rid of the rats.

[–]NotNotACat 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, what did you expect?

[–]sciphre 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Evicted the ogre and brought in some dragons...

[–]cr0ft 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No no, you've got this all wrong - when he said he'd drain the swamp, he meant he'd pluck out the very worst of the alligators and put them to work in his administration.

I mean, I'm sure these rich assholes will do great at empathizing with single black mothers who are starving and the like. They have so much in common!

[–]Peter_Spanklage 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Haha reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24fwvQWMSmg

But politically I normally wouldn't have anything against wealthy people being chosen. Though there are some cases where I would disagree with it, normally choosing someone wealthy who has worked for their entire life is going to be a better pick than someone in the same position who is not wealthy. I'm not sure which people we expected Trump to pick. Also it would be interesting to see this in comparison with the Obama administration, I would expect it to be similar (unless one of Trump's choices like the CEO of Exxon really is the reason for the skewed statistic).

Edit: For reference (and to address the downvotes); from what I've found Obama's cabinet is worth about $3-4 billion and Trump's picks so far total $11 billion.

[–]AustinTransmog 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Thanks for taking the time to do the research and post the numbers.

I agree, as a practical matter, that we would expect the top Cabinet officials to have more wealth than the average American. I think it's troubling, though, when "above average" becomes "super elite". If your average adviser is a billionaire (or has "only" half that wealth, say $500 million), then the advice you get will come almost entirely from the lens of business. These men and women will seek to protect their wealth - and, with that much wealth, there's a lot of time and energy spent protecting it.

Business is important - but it's not so overwhelmingly important that it should displace every other viewpoint and every other need of society. Besides which - Trump is a business mogul himself. You wouldn't think that he'd need to surround himself with more business experts. You'd think he'd want to surround himself with men and women who know the things that he doesn't know, men and women who could help him make informed decisions for the good of the American people. But...who knows? Maybe he'll prove all of us skeptics wrong and rock the office of president.

One more thing - that video. Can't for the life of me figure out its relevance.

[–]6658 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Republicans were all about having politicians pass laws corporations want in exchange for corporate money in a nice circle. Now they just nominate corporations. Too bad trickle-down economics don't work and rich people don't have empathy. There's a difference in being good at business and what is considered to be across several cultures as evil and corrupt.

[–]AustinTransmog -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Republicans were all about having politicians pass laws corporations want in exchange for corporate money in a nice circle.

That's just high-level politics in general. There are sincere folks on both sides of the aisle, but with differing viewpoints. There are also greedy fucks looking out for no one but themselves. Unfortunately, the latter always seem to outnumber the former.

Now they just nominate corporations. Too bad trickle-down economics don't work and rich people don't have empathy. There's a difference in being good at business and what is considered to be across several cultures as evil and corrupt.

Sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't agree with some of this, but you are welcome to complain. People have been saying similar things ever since the first peasant got tired of harvesting his lord's crops. It's nothing new. Wealthy, powerful men control the money. They control the armies.

I can tell you, though, that statistically, it's getting better. Us peasants live a lot better in first-world countries than we did 500 years ago. By every metric, we are happier and healthier. The best solution? Just say Fuck it. Do what you can do to make the world better. Do what you can do to make yourself happy. Let the rest sort itself out.

[–]crash12345 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's cause at the end of the video, the swamp monster was eaten by a bigger, scarier swamp monster. As per the parent comment's analogy.

[–]Peter_Spanklage -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for the response. I definitely agree that too much money in politics will tend to cause mishap, it will be interesting to see how this experiment works out like you said.

In terms of the video haha it seems its only similar on a very philosophical level.

[–]surrealitrix 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Well if anybody knows how to keep a fox out of the henhouse, it's another fox, amirite?

[–]oh_horsefeathers 58 ポイント59 ポイント  (6子コメント)

That's what the foxes keep telling me!

[–]honest_wtf 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

What does the Fox say?

[–]Corbutte 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Well if anybody knows how to keep a fox out of the henhouse, it's another fox, amirite?"

[–]kRkthOr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

And I'm no fox, so who am I to argue about what a fox knows.

[–]untildeath 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What does the fox know?

[–]kRkthOr 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know, but if anybody knows how to keep a fox out of the henhouse, it's gotta be another fox.

[–]lopoticka 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ring ding ding ding dingy-dingy-ding! Re-dingy ding ding ding dingy-dingy-ding!

[–]ghotiaroma 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Who better to protect your child than a pedophile right? Seriously they know exactly what to look out for. Sad.

[–]surrealitrix 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I would like to state for the record that I did not compare anyone to pedophiles here...

[–]Anosognosia 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well the "fox in a henhouse" allegory starts to crumble not that there is nothing BUT foxes there. It's practically a foxhouse.

[–]surrealitrix 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We are the hens...

[–]Anosognosia 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's a lot of hens. Who would even notice a few foxes then. /s

[–]ImAWizardYo -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

A very optimistic perspective that I keep hoping for. Only time will tell. The fact that he fought back against the GinGrinch leaves potential.

[–]Dead-brother 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Honestly it's not their wealth that bother me but the conflicts of interests.

[–]notwearingpantsAMA 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Where the fuck did you think they got their wealth from?

[–]Super_Whack 78 ポイント79 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good thing we didn't elect a corporate shill! Please excuse me while my eyes roll back inside of my head.

[–]ePaperWeight 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (12子コメント)

This is a specious arguement.

64 million Americans (20%) have more debt than assets (i.e. negative net worth). You could probably add another 36 million or so that are just barely positive, but their combined assets only balence out the debt of the first 64.

That means my newborn son who doesn't have a penny to his name is "as rich" as the bottom 100 million combined.

[–]JoseJimeniz 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Trump cabinet owns as much as 209 million Americans.

[–]literatelush 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yah, fetuses are rich as fuck. That's why abortion is evil, duh

[–]But__Whole 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yah, fetuses are rich as fuck.

They're phenomenal with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[–]ralf_ 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Very misleading. When the original calculation was linked in r/politics people complained more than here in the data sub. Le Mondes visualization would be almost the same with Obamas cabinet, even though they are not billionaires.

[–]generate_me_a_name 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with you about the argument. I think the article says the net worth of Trump's cabinet is 9 billion. So, the average assets of the bottom 100 million Americans is under 100 bucks each.

But, do you think it's a problem that so much of the country lives in such debt? I don't know how healthy that is for an economy.

[–]Yolo_Swagovich 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Good maybe they are smart enough with money to get us out of 19 trillion in debt.

[–]Reddits_owner [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sell America to buddy Putin for 19 trillion...

Profit?

[–]CogginsCannon 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

DataIsBeautiful should ban political posts. Every political one promoting one viewpoint (like the one that showed "Trumpland") sparks another political one (This post) and vice versa. Politics isn't a default sub because people hate stuff like this - or at least the "discussion" in the comments.

[–]GermanOgre [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I thought that is what this subreddit is about. To foster a discussion of data and its merits and limitations. Imho, especially the more polarizing data like the county dominance was thoroughly expanded upon with the 3D maps.

[–]Kratzyyy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But how does that compare with previous presidents? After this election I'm extremely weary of any claims made by/towards any candidate/political party, even Trump. Do we know if this is significantly more wealth than Obama or Bush's cabinet? Seems to me that the people who would be invited to any president's cabinet are going to be highly successful anyway.

[–]ThreeHundredAndFifty 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Serious: How come all people here are hating on Trump? Could someone please explain it to me? Like, what has he done that make you so hateful towards him?

[–]Moikee 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's my impartial view.. A lot of people are hating Trump for a variety of reasons:

  • His wealth (and having been bankrupt multiple times suggests somewhat instability and poor financial management)
  • His conflicts of interest (of which there are so many)
  • His offensive remarks throughout the election
  • His lack of empathy towards certain groups of people
  • His beliefs (climate change isn't real etc.)
  • People just like to complain because their side didn't win

Personally I'm not a massive fan of Trump, I think he is rather volatile, abrasive and already mixing with unsavoury characters (Putin, Nigel Farage..).

Not everyone hates Trump, but he's certainly ruffled a few feathers! Please don't downvote me for explaining. I'm just adding to the conversation :)

[–]fugbrah4 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

He's racist, sexist, bigoted... Hold on lemme get my theasuarus.

[–]ThreeHundredAndFifty 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Could you give me sources on this so I could check it out? I'm very interested!

[–]TheTrollingPakistani [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Those are opinions. You cannot prove intentions/brain thought... Not yet atleast.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/sep/27/hillary-clinton/true-hillary-clinton-says-federal-government-sued-/

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/08/28/us/politics/donald-trump-housing-race.html

He was sued by the DOJ for racial discrimination.

Bigoted

Wants a Muslim ban. Pretty sure that's bigoted.

Sexist

Had several wives, cheated on the first with the second, second with the 3rd, appeared on Playboy, mistresses, etc.

But I don't care since to an extent we're all racist, sexist, and bigoted.

[–]ThreeHundredAndFifty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's like you guys are taking words out of Trump's mouth and making your own story. All that I can say is that actions speaks louder than words. President Trump, go to bed butthurt "liberals." You're a disgrace for calling yourselves liberals, because liberals you are not. I would even say that Trump is a liberal even though he ran on the Republican platform. He was sued by the DOJ, well, DOJ and GOP were cooperating according to WikiLeaks. He wants a muslim ban from radical Islamic countries until what's going is at ease. He had several wives, that's being sexist? Appearing on Playboy is being a sexist? Policies and laws made by the government is what makes racism, sexism and bigotry. Trump is here to change that, away with the SJW and fake liberals, and lets focus on the truth and progress into the future.

[–]emma4eyes [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Donald Trump routinely treated women like objects, insulted their appearances and claimed he could sexually assault them since he was famous before dismissing it as 'locker room talk'. He insisted for years that Obama wasn't American in a clear example of racism before doing a massive turnaround and claiming he'd never said that. He called mexicans rapists, murderers, bad hombres. He seemed to have almost no knowledge of policy (this is where it gets less factual and more interpretted) his answers in the debates were unconvincing and often completely off topic. He often changed his mind on issues (abortion etc) within a few days of his earlier claims. His cabinet selections are not representative of America, he refuses to release his tax records, claims tax evasion makes him smart, and has a lot of concerning links to Putin and Russia both through the Democrat hacking and economically through his company. I hope you don't need sources for these, I have merely attempted to summarise the major points (imo) of the year, most of which I know first hand from watching the debates and rallies. Here are some quotes as evidence of sexism, racism, and ignorance.

“You know, it really doesn’t matter what the media write as long as you’ve got a young, and beautiful, piece of ass.”

“It’s freezing and snowing in New York – we need global warming!"

“I think the only difference between me and the other candidates is that I’m more honest and my women are more beautiful.”

“The only card Hillary Clinton has is the woman’s card. She’s got nothing else to offer"

“If I were running ‘The View’, I’d fire Rosie O’Donnell. I mean, I’d look at her right in that fat, ugly face of hers, I’d say ‘Rosie, you’re fired.’"

These are just those I could think of off the top of my head but if you Google you'll find many more, believe me.

[–]gotimas -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

overall just a selfish idiot taking advantage of the american people. dudes just an idiot, like much of the americans, he fits right in i guess, good luck guys

[–]Ajacob225 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If 17 members own as much as 126 million average Americans.... You have a choice to make. Do you think they want to breed a culture where other people can be like them or do you think they want to suppress a culture for other people to be like them? Optimism or cynicism?

[–]itakepicssometimes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Quick scrolling through I read that as mini Americans for some reason. Stopped and went back and knew I shouldn't have.

[–]cruyff8 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rough translation from the French:

If there's a line joining all of Trump's nominees, it could be their net worths. The future US administration has an impressive number of politically-naive, millionaires. It is this fact that caused the American website Quartz to draw the diagram below.

[–]bobby2286 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well it makes sense that he appointed a bunch of intelligent successful people who don't suck at life to run the country doesn't it? And how does this compare to previous cabinets? And to other countries? I'd imagine finding former carpenters and plumbers in cabinet is not really common anywhere.

[–]KingJonStarkgeryan1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What is wrong with having a bit money? The only thing you need to get yourself out of poverty is a hard work effort and ambition. My father was a dirt poor immigrant to the United States and by working hard in both school and whatever job he coul get, he acheived the American Dream. So having money or not having money is up to the individual and welfare actually makes it harder for a poor person to acheive their own American Dream since it kills their ambition.

[–]you_are_the_product -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

What is nice is they are all rich already, somehow they didn't come to government first poor and then become rich like most our horrible politicians.

[–]Nullrasa -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

People in those positions tend to be well off.

Is there data of previous cabinets?

Edit: I'm asking because a lot of people in this thread are making conclusions from one data point, with no correlation to the bias of the policies of the cabinet with respect to their overall wealth. If there was a subreddit "datumisbeautiful" this would belong there.

[–]BadgerousBadger 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

From above comments, Obama was $3-4 billion trumps is $11 billion

[–]Albino_Smurf -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is r/trumpwatch a thing? Because it should be.

So I can be unsubscribed from it

[–]Meatsim1 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

ITT: People who have apparently never heard of qualified policy professionals who aren't America's ultra-weathly, and think a President can only chose between the poorest and richest of society to fill his cabinet.

[–]draiki13 -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because a poor cabinet would stand up for poor people? If a president picked up a cabinet of, let's say moderately educated, homeless people would that satisfy you?

[–]foundafreeusername 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah doubt that would be better. How about we get experts to run the country? Like someone who actually starts as a small local politician and then works themselves up? Sounds reasonable to me. Like career politicians. If they are bad they never get to the top.

[–]MeEatPaint -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

How about not focusing on what helps big business but actually helps the rest of America, who deal with hardships (that big business has no understanding of) regularly?

[–]ItsJustGizmo -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is the America that people WANTED. You guys voted for "the businessman", now you're getting all pussy because he's operating like a businessman. Did you expect him to act like a politician?

I don't understand Trump voters who are moaning now.

Feel free to genuinely chime in and help explain some stuff. I seen this shit coming and called it months ago.

[–]foundafreeusername 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't understand Trump voters who are moaning now.

Are they trump voters though?

[–]vesperpepper 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

i don't think these are trump voters are moaning. it's worth keeping in mind a tun of people didn't vote at all, and more people voted for other candidates than for trump.