上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 293

[–]dogryan100GODSENT Fan[S] 329 ポイント330 ポイント  (24子コメント)

The way I see it, if the community finding out what really happened is damaging to you, then you only have yourself to blame.

[–]grpocz 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It all has to do with owners wanting a bigger pie.

So many different organisations just want to create their own "exclusive" leagues and control teams behind the scenes.

Then some players find out their own teams have plans for them but did not inform them or keep them in the loop. Owners are "SHOCKED" they were not privately approached first.

This happens in all sports at the start where you have different leagues/associations who all want a first mover advantage to lock in teams $$$. Later on they will merge through time as history has shown. Maybe except boxing LOL

Anyway this only happened cause some organisations unionized/formed their own group behind the scenes (the LoL connection) first and players do not have a proper representation yet.

[–]Jinxd0ta 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

except boxing

What the fuck?

[–]magicminusCloud9 Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Maybe he means that greed was present in boxing from the beginning.

[–]Jinxd0ta 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah that makes a lot more sense, sorry fam

[–]grpocz 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sry edited to make what I was trying to say clearer. Just trying to say that everybody wants a first mover advantage to control the scene for $$$. Though they will eventually merge as a big pie which is better than small pies everywhere except boxing that I know of.

[–]iRunLotsNA 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Sean is handling this situation exceedingly well. He is putting forward direct contradictions to Reginald's statements and is displaying the massive holes in his arguments.

Unfortunately, his actions have made him a martyr. Reading through the conversations he posted between himself and Reginald, he likely knew this would be the case early on in the discussion. But he did it anyways since he knew it would be for the betterment of fellow players.

[–]mymindisweird 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

So sgares told Regi to fire him... and he actually did it, the absolute madman! hahahahaha

[–]iRunLotsNA 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sean never told Reginald to fire him or terminate his contract. He asked Reginald if he would be fired for standing up for players rights to decide where they play.

In fact, Reginald directly threatened Sean to speak with him or he would "actively look for a replacement".

[–]grpocz [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This just shows Reginald isn't interested to address the issue and actively come to an agreement in the first place. Which is why I can see the reason the players took it public.

Because the first thing Reginald focuses on what the publicity caused to him and he terminates who he thought the ringleader in his team was instead of solving the problem.

[–]PersianMG [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Which is more than fair. Most companies will just straight up fire employees who are tarnishing their name whilst not communicating with them. From the Skype logs, it looks like Sean never picked up the damn phone to have a good 2-3 hour conversation with Reginald about the entire situation. It looked like he was clearly avoiding him by "playing deathmatch" among other things rather than just picking up the phone to talk about it. It could have even been a conference call with Scoots or anyone else if Sean felt uncomfortable in a 1v1.

[–]WhiteWidow [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm wondering how the fuck are there people in this sub who side with the owners and against the players? The owners goes behind the players backs to create the PEA and Regi's the one asking about communication? Where's the communication with the players?

[–]mymindisweird 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I came here for some dank memeS

[–]MikeTheAverageRedditOpTic Gaming Fan 249 ポイント250 ポイント  (36子コメント)

I believe the players/Sean

I just don't see how 25 players & their chosen representative Scoots would just make shit up & do nothing if they were not concerned.

IMO I think it's clear the TSM players don't want to be cut so they came up with a shit excuse to keep Regi clean. Relyks was the only one with at least 1 ball.

[–]Ouroborossss 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Relyks' tweet was from all the remaining members of TSM as stated at the bottom of his twitlonger. However I do agree that how quickly they caved in when asked about the letter was abysmal.

[–]Squally160 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (5子コメント)

To be fair to them, that was before Sean was cut. So its likely they just figured itd be a quick "ill talk to him and we will sort this shit out" statement maybe? IDK, cant speak for them.

[–]Ouroborossss 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Fair, however by them not owning up to agreeing with the letter can be a factor in why Sean was fired. Which is sort of fucked up.

[–]Squally160 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Agreed, but they did speak out after that news broke. Like I said, I have a feeling that they didnt expect much to come of it other than a chat.

[–]Ouroborossss 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You are right, I whole heartedly agree.

[–]falcons4lifeCloud9 Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think that if Sean was a driving force behind this he should have prepared them with a statement to make if approached by regi. Something along the lines of "I respect your concern but if you would like to discuss the contents of our letter please discuss it with scott/jason"

[–]Mustard_CastleAstralis Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's hard to judge though, Sick and Twist are basically still kids talking to an angry boss. I'm sure the power dynamic there is really hard to deal with, especially for people their age.

[–]iRunLotsNA 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have no idea what happened in the conversation between Reginald and the other four members of TSM. He may have promised Sean that he wouldn't hold him in contract limbo, but he may not have for the others.

[–]chadthckdota [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

they're kids talking to their boss who has immense power and money over them. this is precisely why collective bargaining exists and why an NBA owner can't just find their backup point guard and negotiate with him 1on1 about league-wide player issues. in those situations the owners have to talk to the players union.

[–]sadlyfeGODSENT Fan [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The players all came to an agreement. They tweeted about PEA without any thought about the consequences. They are quite satisfied with TSM actually. I have a source for this.

[–]Spontaneous323 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (13子コメント)

What kills me is how they talk about unionizing... this just goes to show how difficult a union actually would be. I had no doubt in my mind that the second shit hit the fan, players would be on their knees begging for mercy. So much for Hazed saying "Us players will always have each others backs."

[–]iRunLotsNA 35 ポイント36 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Forming a union is a very difficult thing. Until it is formed, the balance of power will always favor the organizations. The actions by organizations to prevent unionization is known as union busting.

Sean's release and Relyks' reply is a clear cut example of what happens when organizations retaliate before a union can be formed.

EDIT: I raised the point of union busting in another reply, but I felt it was important to post here as well.

[–]Spontaneous323 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Absolutely. I just have a very hard time seeing a union actually working out for the players. I just can't imagine some of these players sticking to a union when things get tough. They'll always jump ship when it comes to that point.

I've never been apart of a strike, but I have had close family and friends. I had a friend who was on strike for 6 months. Was pretty tough for him to get no pay check. Are people like Shaz really going to stick with it? Or are they going to fold? Especially if they don't agree with the strike in the first place. With all of the drama that goes on right now between players, I just have a hard time seeing it work. And some of these players just got a driver's license, I'm just not sure they are mature enough for it.

[–]Discrep [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The players have much more leverage than your average union factory worker because the talent pool is so tiny. Even if the owners got a few players to cross the picket line, it would not be nearly enough to field a good enough product, not to mention the audience can simply watch other leagues with top players than replacement scrubs in this league.

[–]Spontaneous323 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Very true. It's not exactly the same because of the talent pool. But there are many players in the game that don't have the maturity and once a few cross the line, the flood gates are open.

[–]DeMikeyMikeESC Gaming Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, they both have no evidence to back up their statements (lunch/phone call) but I'm more willing to trust Sean Gares since there must be a reason why there are other 24 players signed this letter.

[–]1800Feelsbadman 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Dazed said it best. Most CS players will just go along with anything, because they have no spine. Sean probably asked them for their name on the letter and they were said, "Okay!" knowing what it was about and not expecting any major backlash. Once the backlash came they said they never read the letter.

[–]iDEN1EDCloud9 Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But Sean JUST signed a contract with TSM after already knowing all about this PEA stuff. So where was his spine then? Why didn't he bring any of this up during contact negotiations?

[–]iDEN1EDCloud9 Fan [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

What I don't understand is how Sean brought none of this up during contract negotiations? He JUST signed his contract with TSM like a week ago. And if you don't bring it up there and sign the contract then you are agreeing to it so it's his own fault.

[–]Cher_boinerChroma 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

All in all, I'm really happy this is getting some light. These are important issues that need to be worked out.

[–]ireign07OpTic Gaming Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm trying to go to sleep but more juicy stuff just keeps on happening

[–]Lasermoon 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I woke up at 3 a.m. to piss... checked my phone , now it's 7a.m...

[–]AShiftInOrbitOpTic Gaming Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm just waiting until Thorin wakes up.

[–]Iskus1234 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (24子コメント)

Hopefully /r/all doesn't warp what is actually going on with their ignorance in this post (if it even gets to /r/all).

[–]Iselljoy 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Here's to hoping, the initial thread was completely hijacked and the insanity of those statements coupled with hundreds of upvotes was so pathetic and saddening to watch.

[–]superstarshialebeouf 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (22子コメント)

Agreed. The LoL section have no understanding of how free the CS:GO tournament scene is, ignore critical details from other posts and all in all, shitpost.

[–]MahoogCloud9 Fan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

On top of that there were org flairs in there from cs players who never read the open letter or any of the other important pieces of context that became available and then forming opinions in mass. It honestly scares me. I feel like if they feel that way fine after taking in all the info, fine, but it really does seem like there is a lot of ignorance in there.

[–]Iselljoy 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because they're mostly kids, at best teenagers. They don't have facts, they have feelings, and it's nothing more than a popularity contest to them.

[–]THE_MUNDO_TRAINFaZe Clan Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (17子コメント)

Any post linking to this drama gets removed instantly at the moment.

[–]superstarshialebeouf 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (16子コメント)

For the best. If they were able to discuss it free from CS fans, they'd coax the situation in favour of Dinh.

[–]Simplyquitewonderful 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

people on the league subreddit hate Regi wtf

[–]KNE2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They hate regi because how he was as a player, but I think that everyone that knows him as a owner says that he is one of the bests

He was the one that helped biofrost with the problems of his former team

[–]eCharms [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

25% of the subreddit dont say it as if we all hate him there

[–]PaulBGD [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm from the lol section and after reading the tweetlongs, messages, and blog post it's painfully clear that they fucked up.

[–]PhyllisRedbeard 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sean's reply for those without access:

Hey everyone!

First, I just wanted to thank everyone for your support. It's been a really crazy day and it's amazing to know the community has my back. After reading some of your comments and Andy's reply I wanted to clarify a few things.

It seems like some people who have followed the situation think that I didn't speak with Andy at all during this process, or that I unfairly cut off contact with him. He basically implies it in his text to me and his community response, but this is just not the case. On December 9th, Andy and I went to lunch together and talked about our new team and different esports industry issues. He asked me questions about different kinds of league structures in esports and traditional sports, and I gave him my opinions. This lunch, which came two days after Scott sent our first letter to the PEA, was very friendly. We specifically discussed how the players had selected Scott to represent us, and Andy said he was well aware of it. He even made a joke about how angry Jack (Cloud9's owner) was that the players had picked Scott.

I don't think it's fair for Andy to imply that my way of communicating wasn't proper, or to be critical of me for not talking to him. I did talk to him. I talked to him face to face for two hours and he expressed no issues about Scott representing us during that time. This was two days after Scott e-mailed the PEA on our behalf. This is why I was kind of confused (among other things) when Andy was texting me asking why I hadn't talked with him. I had. He was aware when we went to lunch that Scott was representing the players, including me, in our discussion with the PEA. He understood that this meant all of the official communication needed to go through Scott and Jason Katz - just like when any players association head meets with any league commissioner. We had a very friendly lunch and he expressed no issues about anything. So I don't understand why now he is upset about my communication decisions. He never expressed any concerns about them until today.

When we decided to have Scott represent us, it wasn't because we had anything against our owners, or wanted to damage them. By the time I joined TSM, the players had already decided to reach out to Scott for help. We did this because we came to the conclusion that, based on what had been going with the PEA since September, we needed to work together. It's all in our open letter (http://bit.ly/2hWIUnX). Through all of this, though, it was really important to all of the players to balance standing up for ourselves while showing respect and appreciation to our organization owners. That is why we worked for two weeks to resolve the situation in private once Scott started talking to Jason, and it is also why we worded our letter as we did.

As players, we should be able to stand up for ourselves and each other - and tell the truth - without being afraid that our team owners will accuse us of damaging them. The way I see it, if the community finding out what really happened is damaging to you, then you only have yourself to blame. We specifically made it a point to be honest and respectful with our organization owners throughout this process.

Despite what has happened, I still appreciate my time on TSM. I wish that things didn't have to end this way. I understand that Andy is in a tough place and I don't wish him any ill will, but warping the truth is not fair to me or anyone, and it is not right way to handle all of this. As for the other things Andy mentions in his response, I did not "manipulate" anyone and my former teammates have already confirmed this in their public reply to Andy (https://twitter.com/TSM_Relyks/status/812169603170369536).

Again, thank you everyone for the support. I hope this clears things up. Please continue to support me, my former teammates, and all of our fellow players by reading our letter and being vocal about the importance of #playersrights.

[–]wobmaster 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It looks like both sides somehow did the same thing:
Agreeing to be part of a bigger group and support their efforts without talking to eachother first.
In the TSM case it seems like this could all have been avoided if they would have talked to each other more....

[–]Lion_ClawCloud9 Fan 115 ポイント116 ポイント  (19子コメント)

I was already on Sean's side, even after reading what Reginald said. Now, after reading this, it's clear that Reginald does not care about his CSGO team or his players, only the profit from the game.

[–]Lasermoon 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep... even the PEA 50/50 deal is basically Hollywood accounting

Those guys just care about the money and I see no argument why they should care about the players or the scene

[–]Brian2one0 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Now, after reading this, it's clear that Reginald does not care about his CSGO team or his players, only the profit from the game.

I'm surprised that wasn't clear after the last TSM roster left because the org wouldn't listen to what they wanted.

[–]superstarshialebeouf 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Everyone who cares about the CS scene was on Sean's side. Dinh's response was blown asunder by LCS shills and people who don't understand the CS scene.

[–]Ivor97Counter Logic Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

League fans think TSM fans are dumb too.

[–]kajohosiunkaal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

LCS shills

????? What is even going on in your imaginary world??? They're called TSM fans, they aren't shills they're just stupid teenagers.

[–]DarkSideOfTheMindCloud9 Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (8子コメント)

All he cares about is "his brand". Fuck him.

[–]aliform 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Of course he cares about his fucking brand. You are all so delusional. Absolutely the players deserve rights and absolutely they should have some stake in the decisions, but at the end of the day they are employees. If they don't like the decisions made by the org ('the brand' as you eloquently put it) they can fuck off to another team.

Try this approach at your job mate, I dare you.

[–]TooSuhweetCloud9 G2A Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I agree that players do need to represent their orgs positively, but I feel like you're missing the point of most of this. If every team is infringing on players rights where do the players "fuck off" to? These teams need to find a balance between helping organizations make money and making sure that players are treated fairly and have a say in what they do. esports careers aren't comparable to normal every day jobs. You can't replace top tier players as easily as you can replace someone that works a 9-5 job. Major sports have associations to make sure the players are treated fairly and that's what esports needs too.

[–]vesperpepper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

you're a corporate shill lol. employment is a two way relationship, not a dictatorship. leverage is held by both parties, and both parties have lines that can't be crossed by the other party. PEA and the orgs crossed this line, but the players are giving conciliation a try.

if you think your brand is worth more than the skills the players bring to the table, good luck, because no one cares about orgs with bad teams.

[–]FaxerSK Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well I mean if the old danish TSM side showed anything, it was that ownership didn't give a toss about CS.

[–]Gaben2016 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Welcome to the real world.

At the end of the day, the goal of businesses will be to make money.

If that involves aligning their interests with their employees, the awesome... but that is not always the case.

I am not defending anyone here. I'd love a more everyone-wins socialist world as well. That being said, that is not the reality of the world today and a business owners main goal is almost always going to be profit.

If an employee is damaging profits and the brand, they will likely have a short life with the company.

[–]Shrines_CSiBUYPOWER Fan 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (8子コメント)

At the end of the day nobody wins from this drama. Sean is not playing with the TSM players anymore which could've been a really interesting roster with the young talent they have on that team and Reginald has been made to look like a master manipulator when in reality he's "probably" not, just the circumstances of a weird situation perceives him that way.

[–]rdee3 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The only good thing that might surface from this drama is the beginning of a players union.

[–]Kishin2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's been in the works for a while now actually.

[–]dekozeOpTic Gaming Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is just a piece of a bigger puzzle. If anything the players could win from this depending on the community's reaction after the dust has settled. The players get a pretty big bargaining chip if the community becomes informed on the scheming going on by the owners/investors.

[–]CorsquesOpTic Gaming Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Is there a world where the players leave the org, and Dig pick them up?

[–]cantgetenoughsushi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They could always do what Astralis did and let the contracts run out.. Or they could even just refuse to play/afk in spawn every match.

[–]TheRobidogNinjas in Pyjamas Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If this drama forces the PEA to give teams the ability to play in the EPL, the NA scene wins, inclusivity wins and most importantly, the players win.

[–]a_prk 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (12子コメント)

This is wayyy too weird.

First. Why didnt sean talk about this lunch with reginald in the messages? Why didnt he say "But we talked about it?"

Second. If they really had this talk, and Regi said on the messages that he would be willing to leave PEA if the players asked, why did they end up in the Union anyways? Why didnt they agreed on that lunch that TSM would leave PEA?

Like wtf? Im really confused

[–]Corrado15Team Liquid Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

If you look at the messages Sean sounds confused the whole time, has a couple of replies and they go on a call. They could very easily have covered that on the phone. I'm not necessarily sold one way or the other but from the reports we've had so far I'm inclined to believe sgares.

[–]a_prk 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

yeaaaa i wont even try speculate anymore lmao, this is some next level soap opera

Inb4 sgares is lying, they did have a lunch but it had nothing to do with PEA and he's only saying this to not get sued for hurting TSM's reputation. I wouldnt be surprised

[–]Corrado15Team Liquid Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I would say that if anyone could be sued it's TSM for firing a player that is trying to unionize. You can't really sue someone for revealing your shady business tactics.

[–]Kamishini [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I kinda hate how everything has to be bought to public just to sway outrage.

[–]DamagePoint 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Sean doesnt say they talked about the particular issue, he says he talked about the players being represented by a third party (scoot).

[–]a_prk 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (3子コメント)

yeah but being represented by Scoot against PEA...he even says it was 2 days later after they sent the letter to PEA

[–]DamagePoint 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He doesn't even specify against. Sean in his own post makes no indication of disagreement.
'he even says it was 2 days later after they sent the letter to PEA' - you

"Which came two days after Scott sent our first letter to the PEA" -Sean "This was two days after Scott e-mailed the PEA on our behalf" - Sean

He never says "the letter". Based on what Sean himself has given us, we cannot assume the details of the "first letter" or email.

[–]downlooker [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

What else could it have been about? It was still written on behalf of 25 NA pros upset with the "no EPL" thing. And they must not have gotten a good response if they went ahead and published this letter publicly.

[–]DamagePoint [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"and prior to the leak from DeKay we had not even the slightest inclination to what was about to transpire regarding the PEA" - Relyks, one of the 25 pros.

Relyks says they didnt have the "slightest inclination" before the leak, the leak was the 20th. Unless Reginald and Sean had lunch today and everyone is telling the truth, thats not what the first letter could have been about.

I don't discredit the first letter or email, but from Sean's account and the others since then we have no indication of the content of those letters or emails.

[–]mogyesz09 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Both parties are being selective in what they tell us, it will never add up without the missing pieces.

[–]wheeler9691Team Liquid Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People are missing one big point here. Not 1 of the 25 players is happy with just their organization leaving PEA. If it's a union they want, then it's all or nothing. The TSM roster wouldn't settle for just TSM leaving PEA. That's why the discussion in question, or any discussion for that matter, would never pacify this situation.

[–]RIP_Hopscotch 95 ポイント96 ポイント  (6子コメント)

If this is true, and Sean and Regi did meet and discuss this stuff, then Regi is a piece of shit plain and simple. Really hope we can get the real story sometime soon, but right now Im more than inclined to believe Sean over Regi.

[–]ssean13099Team EnVyUs Fan 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I made the mistake of saying he's a piece of shit and got raped on the OG thread from people who play (LoL?) I don't know this is CS and this isn't the first time they cucked a team/player. They can be great LoL guys but if they fuck around with CS teams they are going to get hate.

[–]Corrado15Team Liquid Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea idk what happened over there, that went crazy really fast.

[–]THE_MUNDO_TRAINFaZe Clan Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They wanted to do pretty much the same thing with NA LCS(with C9 and TL being the driving force) to remove relegations and make it a money bath club for the current orgs being in the league. Wasn't well received until many high media profiles were for the proposal.

[–]vesperpepper [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

i think what happened is that they talked before an email was sent from scoots to PEA, but that regi was not expecting the open letter, and responded badly at that point in defense of his brand. (entirely unnecessarily imo, no one was badmouthing the orgs or TSM specifically).

[–]Brian2one0 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Scoots sent the letter on December 7th to PEA.

[–]vesperpepper [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

thanks. regi's alleged duplicity makes no sense then..

[–]Kwong0800iBUYPOWER Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I thought I quit playing League of Legends.

[–]deepriBUYPOWER Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

ikr, so many TSM fans showed up from nowhere suddenly

[–]Kwong0800iBUYPOWER Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Was just a joke. I thought I wouldn't hear from Regi after shifting over to CS LUL

[–]0sM0sesG2 Esports Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

So quick. You must get this a lot

[–]Saterra 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (3子コメント)

He's got an app that helps him keep track of tweets*

[–]bebewow 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The madman! It might as well be called Twitter.

[–]spetaa 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Get the popcorn ready, this gon be good.

[–]Cant_5tump_The_TrumpCloud9 Fan 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Where are you "Sean is in the wrong" idiots now?

[–]dogryan100GODSENT Fan[S] 46 ポイント47 ポイント  (12子コメント)

They are busy over at /r/leagueoflegends and /r/TeamSolomid They will be back soon don't worry.

[–]deepriBUYPOWER Fan 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (8子コメント)

its actually funny af. If you click their profiles, it's their first time commenting on /r/GlobalOffensive and yet they know more than anyone in csgo history lol

[–]whipsawwwTeam Solomid Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

i linked hazed's comment on sean getting fired and i got yelled at because "hazed is a moron"

[–]legion732SK Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I saw a thread on /r/TSM with the clip of Dazed talking about how regi didn't say anything to the playes about leaving ESL to PEA, and the top comment of course was "This guy doesn't know what hes talking about" They attack anyone who has a differing opinion in this situation

[–]whipsawwwTeam Solomid Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

i posted that link xD yeah it got downvoted to shit

[–]KARMAAACSAstralis Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Tsm fans are cancerous. I was arguing with one the other day about how Regi didn't want to pay the Danish teams manager back when they had them and got mad down voted. TSM fans are all the same... idiotic and defensive even when they are wrong.

[–]xhandlerGuardian Elite [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

You can tell by how they call the TSM owner "Regi" like he's some well known figure in the scene (not even using the kids full nickname)

[–]IAmAGoodPersonnSK Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You can see the first post in a subreddit?

[–]Cant_5tump_The_TrumpCloud9 Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Haha, it was so obvious from the beginning that there were reasons Regi wanted to get rid of Sean and not communicating was not one of them.

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

From what I know, TSM's League fanbase is the equivalent of C9's CS fanbase. It's just sort of the default favorite for the majority of NA, so it makes sense that the LoL people would be upset and biased about this without knowing the full details and being ignorant to a lot of the story.

[–]Ajp_iiiOpTic Gaming Fan 36 ポイント37 ポイント  (10子コメント)

sean is so much smarter than so many people in the scene.

[–]DenotsyekCloud9 Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Now he is a smart guy without a team.

[–]GenSecCloud9 G2A Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I bet he'd rather not be on that shitshow.

[–]Setheldon [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And after this show it's probably going to stay that way.

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (5子コメント)

He has a college degree (and a master's IIRC), unlike most people in the scene

[–]krazyboi 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's not a gauge on business sense though...

[–]Corrado15Team Liquid Fan 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think it shows at least some capability for critical thinking.

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He just said he was smarter, he didn't say anything about business...

[–]DamagePoint 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't see what Sean and Reginald said to be mutually exclusive.

Sean says Scott is the voice for the players to PEA and that Reginald acknowledges this, but does not say he brought up the particular issue or the letter. Sean implies that Reginald's frustration comes from their decision to be represented by a third party, however Reginald's focus was on:

  1. Sean "manipulating" the team into signing the letter.
  2. Being defamed for not listening to his team when there was never a discussion.

[–]Tur8oNuke Veteran 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think it's pretty clear now that Regi was the one "manipulating" more than anyone seeing as his whole team has pretty much said that he hasn't been truthful. Hopefully even the swarm of TSM LoL fans from r/all can see that.

[–]_WhirlyOpTic Gaming Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

u fast

[–]dogryan100GODSENT Fan[S] 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

TweetDeck is life.

[–]twokings13 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

God I wish they talked over skype or text, so there was actual proof to the conversation having taken place.

[–]lonelypanda 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is like Game of Thrones except without the dragons and less incest (I hope). Thorin is Littlefinger, cackling by the wayside.

[–]shn6 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

And people ask me why I don't watch TV. Why watch some scripted shit drama when the real one is so much better.

[–]seanzy61Virtus.Pro Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seems like Regi and the other owners didn't take this #playersrights group seriously and is now facing the consequences. Stop trying to act like the players needed to talk to you. This is your players talking to you. Listen.

[–]Sabiancym 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are way too many conflicting stories here. I know this community likes to immediately jump to one side and conclusion, but maybe this time just wait and see.

[–]sirfreakish 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our lord and saviour Thooorin shall enlighten all

[–]AemonDK 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fucking ridiculous how that other post is filled to the brim with pretentious idiots who think they have a better understanding of the situation and business than anybody else.

[–]ssean13099Team EnVyUs Fan 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm with DaZeD, Sean is so passive and I feel like he isn't getting the point across. He needs to come out and just say "Fuck this dude, his org and his hairline."

[–]Spontaneous323 75 ポイント76 ポイント  (3子コメント)

That's literally the worst thing he could do. Don't take professional advice from DaZed. I love him, but dear god don't do anything he says outside of the game.

[–]ssean13099Team EnVyUs Fan 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean don't say that but he needs to be a little more assertive with it.

[–]Spontaneous323 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

True, he could be a little more assertive. I think the issue is that everything is just letters right now with hours in between. We hear one side, and the other side counters with the public reacting accordingly. Hard to really get the whole picture at this point. But this statement by Sean is pretty convincing for me. I'll hold judgment for a few more days.

[–]iRunLotsNA 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

With public statements such as these, it is important to remain composed and collected to not appear like you're reacting and lashing out.

Although it appears to be passive, Sean is directly calling out Reginald for "warping the truth" in his reply.

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, he should publicly burn bridges because a Twitch streamer jokingly said so

[–]YellowCityCloud9 Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So the owner of an E-sports organization wasn't being honest in order to save face!? And that owner was Reginald?!?!

Shocking.

[–]RolledUp9s 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What I still don't understand is - Reginald says he has issues with Sean and the team not communicating an apparent problem that they have with the org to the org. Sean comes out with a statement saying any issues the players had with PEA went through Scoots. But those two aren't the same thing. Of course they say different things happened. They're not even talking about the same thing...

Sure there is some overlap, but the actual points being made are totally different. They're logically consistent (for the most part), with both parties capable of being right based on the information they are willing to share.

[–]Turtlefast27Team SoloMid Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah the first argument is about the players not talking to Regi about the letter, and the second is whether Sean manipulated the others. The outcome of either doesn't really effect the other.

[–]ConnorK5iBUYPOWER Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

runs out of popcorn

"Mother fucker"

[–]DenotsyekCloud9 Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm on n0things side

[–]CorsquesOpTic Gaming Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The plot thickens...

[–]ellesee3 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for this drama during my double shift

[–]goodbye9hello10Natus Vincere Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So this seems like the truth. I sure as hell trust Sgares more than Reginald. All I know is that I can't wait to see what happens next, and what info is released.

[–]FaxerSK Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus ol' Regi here is beginning to look like a bit of a nonce.

[–]BitcoinBoo [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Get rekt Andy and haters in the other thread.

[–]aybrothaCounter Logic Gaming Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ruck Feginald

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Some lawyer 100% wrote this, looks way too clean. Good on Sean though, C9 or Dig will pick him up,

Also

I still appreciate my whole time on TSM.

Lol he was there for like 2 weeks

[–]ryeguy 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

looks way too clean

Too clean for what? This looks perfectly possible for sean to have authored himself.

[–]Brian2one0 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

looks way too clean

Sean graduated from ASU. He didn't drop out of High school to play CSGO. He knows how to write paragraphs.

[–]McGrumbleTeam Solomid Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Jack is way to pissed to bring back to C9. Dig however....

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sean's a pretty smart guy, I think you're selling him short.

[–]ssean13099Team EnVyUs Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

8 Days to be exact.

[–]Rail_22Fnatic Fanatic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol, No...

[–]oxylougTeam EnVyUs Fan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It may be some hidden irony from his part ... :p

Too funny.

[–]Noobasdfjkl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

looks way too clean

Dude's got a medical biochem degree, man. This writing is 100% within his abilities.

[–]Lord7777Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FuckReginald

FuckTSM

This along with the team's statement prove his statement has very little if any truth and was just a bad attem0t at saving face.

[–]GiveMeDog 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

There's a difference between talking to your owner about a players union -- which Reginald has said he supports -- and informing him that you're about to release a letter shitting on his organization and implying that you were mistreated. The former happened, the latter did not.

And before people jump to conclusions, keep in mind that there's always two sides to a story. It wouldn't make sense for owners to force their players to drop out of EPL. Seeing as how the owners and PEA are two separate entities, I'm beginning to think PEA was playing both sides which is what led to players and owners being upset with each other.

As players, we should be able to stand up for ourselves and each other - and tell the truth - without being afraid that our team owners will accuse us of damaging them.

To play devil's advocate here, as salaried employees, they should also have the common sense to talk to their employers about their problems before making it public. Sean never brought up any problems or concerns to Reginald despite their lunch meeting. That's why the letter was a blindside.

The letter wasn't a "players union" movement. Signing it didn't only mean that you were in favor of a players union. It was worded as an attack on the owners. Signing it meant that you felt your rights had been violated -- which none of the TSM players had said happened, nor did they voice their concerns to Reginald if it did happen.

That's what Sean signed his name to. If he didn't think Reginald would be pissed, then he's living in a bubble. Not saying Sean is wrong, but you can't blame TSM for firing him.

[–]Corrado15Team Liquid Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The latter did happen, Regi was sent a copy of the letter on December 7th and according to sgares he mentioned it in their conversation. Please read the post.

[–]the_only_zilla 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

regi releases statement - community backs regi

sean releases statement - community backs sean

[–]Iskus1234 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not really, that other thread was filled with /r/all people that were ignorant of the full picture. The community is behind the players for the most part, check out all the other threads underneath it about this drama (that aren't on /r/all).

[–]The2ndNeo 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not a good thing to blindly be on the players side

It's not a good thing to blindly be on anyone's side

[–]Defect14 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have never seen so many TSM flairs before.

[–]bkp24Cache Veteran 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Welp, that about seals the nail in the coffin. Can't wait to see the reply he has for this one, especially when all of his arguments in his response to Sean have been refuted and otherwise proven inaccurate according to the rest of The TSM lineup. The TSM org as a brand is about to take a major hit for this one. Reposted my thoughts from the other Sean Gares twitlonger post.

[–]CheeseNuke 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

daaaamn and so the plot thickens...again

[–]zennCSGOCounter Logic Gaming Fan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Seems like TSM won't be playing with Sean in a different org.

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (3子コメント)

[–]zennCSGOCounter Logic Gaming Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Interesting, just Shahz atm tho

[–]Brian2one0 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

http://imgur.com/eMeq5lX

twistzz favorited that on twitter lmao.

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would be a good opportunity for Dignitas to pick up a decent NA lineup without having to try and piece one together. If the whole team is willing to leave, it could work.

[–]dotadroid 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Christmas drama... let me get some eggnog, this is gonna be interesting.

[–]Bradozer 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh man, this is getting juicy.

[–]dogcatbirdplane 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sean dead on here

[–]Noobasdfjkl [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I fucking knew it. I knew bae was too good a man to do shady shit like that.

Sean, you may not have a team right now, but you'll always be IGL of my heart.

[–]a34fsd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Cant wait for the 2h Thorin video that adds nothing of value :>

[–]dan_rycroft [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's not a good response if they were to come of it other than a popularity contest to them.

[–]totalironCounter Logic Gaming Fan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Again, Sean is highlighting relyks statement and making that the voice of every player. How about he respond directly about what other owners/players have said that is conflicting with what he's saying? And can someone explain to me what legal obligation do owners, ESL, etc have that forces them to consult players and have them ok whatever decision they make?

[–]angels855 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Being defamed for not talking to Jason, and it is important to all of his brand.