上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]OrdinaryMTeam Liquid Fan 207 ポイント208 ポイント  (180子コメント)

TLDR from the twitlonger:

TLDR: My players AND Sean had never expressed ANY of their feelings about PEA or the letter to me privately, if they did I’m open to discussing the issue with them. I felt blindsided by the letter once it was published on Reddit. I reached out to the players individually and they all said Sean told them to do this. I felt Sean, my player, was working to hurt me without any intention of compromise therefore I no longer wish to work with him.

Should probably read it all though.

[–]Verax__Team Wolf Fan 52 ポイント53 ポイント  (43子コメント)

Full Text

Let's start at the beginning. At no point did my players directly talk to me about not wanting to participate in PEA. This isn’t about the PEA it’s about Sean’s actions as my player. Seangares signed to start on TSM on December 16th. In less than a week, he misled and manipulated my other players, convincing them to add their names to a letter they had not read and did not understand.

When I saw the post yesterday I was shocked and honestly felt betrayed that my players felt that they were mistreated enough to publicly bash our brand. So I reached out to the players individually because I was blindsided by this situation. Sean convinced all of our players to tweet with the hashtag #playerrights which suggests that TSM is mistreating all of our players and taking their rights away.

https://gyazo.com/8c291326f8f541d3acfb4eda84b22670 https://gyazo.com/24392111a18b0f47db913d6425f7612a https://gyazo.com/a79fb14148a6a46a1cfdcbf550edc023

My conversation with Skyler and Twistzz was over a call so unfortunately I don’t have any logs of that, but they echoed the same message as the other players. After I found out what was going on from the other players I started to feel that they were being misled by Sean Gares and it was then that I told him that we cannot have a working relationship.

What do you do when you find out one of your players of less than a week is working against you and your company? How can I trust Sean on my team when he can’t even bother to talk to me personally about his concerns before taking a public stance against me? At this point my working relationship with Sean had been tarnished, I could not trust to keep him on my team.

I tried to end things amicably. Even after learning what happened with the letter, I was willing to work things out with Sean (as can be seen in the logs), but unfortunately Sean again chose not to directly engage with me and expressed he would prefer to leave TSM. I will not hold Sean in contract jail, I will let him go to whichever team he wants, but I will not let Sean tarnish my reputation when he is being disingenuous with the community on how the events played out with my team. Again, I did not fire him for #playerrights which he is saying to mislead the community.

I have since spoken with the 4 other players on my team, Sick, Relyks, Twistzz, Shahzam, about the situation and they have apologized to me privately about how this all played out. They do not feel that we mistreated them or have any ill will towards TSM.

I’m fine with players fighting for player rights and I believe they should stand up for themselves and what they believe in but this is a case of Sean manipulating the 4 other players on my team. There are much more productive ways for them to handle this situation, call me, talk to me, refuse to play - but shaming me before understanding my intentions is not productive.

TLDR: My players AND Sean had never expressed ANY of their feelings about PEA or the letter to me privately, if they did I’m open to discussing the issue with them. I felt blindsided by the letter once it was published on Reddit. I reached out to the players individually and they all said Sean told them to do this. I felt Sean, my player, was working to hurt me without any intention of compromise therefore I no longer wish to work with him.

I had no intentions of posting these logs publicly but I feel like I'm left without a choice.

[–]proudopticfanOpTic Gaming Fan 110 ポイント111 ポイント  (41子コメント)

Hijacking this comment to nuke his entire argument in one response:

The thing is, why was TSM involved in the PEA to begin with? Did TSM consult the players before deciding that they will not be playing in the EPL? Did regi reach out to his players? If he is complaining about his players not reaching out to him before signing their names on the paper, WHY DID HE NOT REACH OUT TO THEM BEFORE REGARDING THE EPL BAN??? If PEA as an organization is going to represent TSM in telling the players that they can't play in the EPL, the players are going to be represented as a collective unit when it comes to responding back! It's that simple! Regi didn't reach out to his players regarding the decision of not allowing them to play in EPL, so why do the players have to reach out to him before signing on a letter and responding back??? Makes no sense

[–]misconstrudelGODSENT Fan 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (6子コメント)

you're hurting the brand

- nukes his brand from orbit

[–]equinox790Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Also turns out he was lying. Look at this twitlonger from relyks:http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spfdjo

[–]pecan50Cloud9 G2A Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

whos lying?

[–]anticommon 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sounds to me like they are playing to the tune of 'You fucked up, now we're going to go to all the rest of the players now that they see you've been removed, and we're going to make sure they realize what their fate will be if they do not side with TSM'

[–]cracktr0 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

The thing is, why was TSM involved in the PEA to begin with?

Probably for all the things outlined when the PEA was announced? I don't understand the question..

Did TSM consult the players before deciding that they will not be playing in the EPL?

They aren't obligated to do so, but they should have, and they didnt. A. genuine fuckup

Did regi reach out to his players?

For what reason? If players had concerns, they should have voiced them.

You're also sensationalizing the shit out of the exclusivity that doesn't actually exist, and for a team that doesn't even have an EPL spot to begin with.

Next time you're going to hijack a top comment, try making a coherent post, and make sure you know the whole story lol

[–]abn620 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm pretty sure bosses doesn't need to consult with their employee. You think someone like Trump consults with his receptionist on what restaurants he'd allow to do business in his hotel? I used to work at FB and not once did Zuckerberg talked to me. Didn't even get to take a selfie with him. Maybe I'll post on reddit and cry about it, would you upvote me?

[–]Betsruner 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (6子コメント)

In most lines of work the boss doesn't have to keep their employee happy because the can just hire someone else. Because these players are in higher demand and not just anyone can be hired they really do have to check to keep them happy.

[–]seanzy61Virtus.Pro Fan 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Of course they don't have to. But they also shouldn't be suprised if the employees decide to unionize...

[–]proudopticfanOpTic Gaming Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

(1) At the start of PEA they talked about how players will have a significant voice in EPAs decision making. That's a breach of agreement right there. To make it worse, they are on the record for saying that. (2) PEA is not their boss. TSM is. PEA can't tell them what to do unless TSM is a subsidiary of PEA. Even TSM can't do that if it's not in their contracts.

[–]McontendTitan Fan 106 ポイント107 ポイント  (68子コメント)

Where is Regi's apology for lack of foresight in discussing with the players what would happen with being part of the PEA and what leagues they will be forced to withdraw from? This all stems from them not looking out for the players best interest in the first place.

[–]oboe_mafia 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (1子コメント)

But none of the players in question are being asked to withdraw from anything because they aren't in ESL. Sean and the rest of TSM are signing to stand in solidarity with other players being mistreated, but are maligning TSM org's reputation in the process, which sucks for both parties.

[–]MisusedGGFaZe Clan Fan 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (38子コメント)

He doesn't need to consult his players. However the players are under contract with Regi and he holds authority over them and their actions. Regi did seem like he would've agreed if they went to him first.

[–]ivo09 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (21子コメント)

Exactly. Regi is the owner of the organization and pays the players' salaries, he can do whatever he wants with his organization. If the players didn't like it they should have talked to him privately first.

[–]sargent610iBUYPOWER Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (8子コメント)

They did talk to him through their advocate Scoots. The PEA was speaking on the owners behalf and by proxy the players. The players however didn't believe their voices were being expressed or heard by the PEA so they decided to appoint their own advocate in Scoots. This is Regi being butt hurt that his ego got bruised.

[–]SilverBallsOnMyChestCloud9 Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (58子コメント)

I don't get how that would hurt him, though.

Edit: Got it. Thanks everyone for the replies!

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I bet people were calling sponsors and what not. Not a good look for an org who just picked up Axe to have a bunch of public outcry directed at it.

[–]alexf0rce 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (21子コメント)

TSM and a bunch of other orgs are signed with PEA

The players does not want to be signed to PEA and their exclusivity.

Said players comes out and says this, which makes it look like the owners of the orgs are not taking into account what the players wants, which hurts the brand.

And what Reginald is trying to say is that if they had talked to him he could've worked things out. What we don't know though is if Reginald talked to the players before signing this, and if he did, was all of the information given. It's also possible that Regi didn't have all the information from PEA, or maybe he didn't realize that it would bring exclusivity to just PEA and what they want.

TL;DR

It looks like there's conflict within the organization, and that is bad for publicity and sponsorship deals.

[–]McontendTitan Fan 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (19子コメント)

https://twitter.com/SirScoots/status/812144487669579776 Scoots saying all the players agreed to the letter. With Regi posting these conversations it is clear that some of the players will back out and claim ignorance when they see a teamate get dropped for supporting the letter. Why would they shoot themselves in the foot and lose their salary like Sean did?

[–]m1cksPhoenix 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (8子コメント)

SicK is also an 18 year old kid trying to save face when his Millionaire owner is talking to him about tarnishing his brand.

[–]McontendTitan Fan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly. Why would a kid who is making likely all of his money from this salary decide to tell the owner of org he is playing for that he disagrees with him and risk losing that, especially when there's no certainty of another org picking him up right away. It is easier for him to plead ignorance and say he had no idea what the letter was for.

[–]whipsawwwTeam Solomid Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Twistzz is a 17 year old high school drop out who contributed his life to CS and his millionaire owner confronts him about this issue

[–]cracktr0 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Whats to say he keeps his job anyway?

This circular logic of blaming players for orgs shortcomings and orgs for players shortcomings is getting absolutely nowhere.

[–]The2ndNeo 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (27子コメント)

You live and die by your players.

Imagine if a regular sports team tweeted out a message against their team.

Who wants to buy a jersey with a name who doesn't want to play there

[–]Linsten 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The sponsor thing is really big. Regi has worked hard to get non-traditional esports sponsors. They signed AXE this month and have had Geico for a few months now.

Convincing these new big name sponsors is hard to do if they are openly protesting your organization.

[–]asiimanGuardian Elite 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (11子コメント)

"[PEA] was never exclusive" ..as opposed to what was claimed in the letter from the players.

"My players AND Sean had never expressed ANY of their feelings about PEA" ..the open letter claims a letter on behalf of the players was sent to the owners on Dec. 7th.

Somebody is lying...

[–]Ouroborossss 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think he means he never heard anything from his players before the 7th.

[–]asiimanGuardian Elite 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He clearly talks about the open letter from the players. It wouldn't make sense to be outraged about the public outcry from a letter that wasn't public :)

[–]SyzbuH400k Hype 101 ポイント102 ポイント  (28子コメント)

His texts make it appear he wanted to remove Sean for not talking to him before the letter was made, not for "manipulating" other tsm players and such.

[–]TaPsomBONGOpTic Gaming Fan 92 ポイント93 ポイント  (14子コメント)

I don't buy the other players didn't even know what they were signing either, probably saw sean getting sacked and they don't want to be next

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (7子コメント)

People act a lot more timid when in 1v1 situations than a group, if the players are serious about unionizing/rights or whatever, they shouldn't back down when confronted.

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (7子コメント)

He's just using the manipulating thing to retroactively justify his removal, I don't buy it

[–]Wadd1eKinguin Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Reginald makes it sound like big bad Sean tricked and manipulated his poor teammates into acting against their own interests.

[–]Jenova1994 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

What it sounds like is a new player kinda fucked his org instead of talking with them before a public letter, and thats why he was dropped.

[–]Lasermoon 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you check what tweets twist favourited on twitter they all supports sgares position

[–]Swbp0undcakeCloud9 Fan 163 ポイント164 ポイント  (42子コメント)

Time for reddit to believe this side of the story 100% until someone else responds

[–]mogyesz09 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Both sides try to play off public sentiment, don't know why reddit is so eager to assist in that.

[–]rdee3 54 ポイント55 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Dunno why they would. Sean and players went to scoots to represent them to talk to owners about the issue. The entire thing began because orgs weren't talking to their players. Regi coming out to Sean and saying he should have came to him is downright insulting.

[–]memelord76Team eBettle Fan 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (11子コメント)

how is that downright insulting? they're upset about lack of communication so they dont communicate?

that doesnt make sense

[–]rdee3 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (10子コメント)

The contracts the players' signed means the org doesn't have to communicate with the players over those decisions. Which is why Scoots is their communication. I'm sure you've read the tweets with Regi responding to the letter.

[–]Cardinxl 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Why did they sign the contract then?

[–]Coltorl- 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Having no money and then being presented with the opportunity to make some money.

P.S Societal coercion makes some people make rash decisions.

[–]ViddaxCloud9 Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Well shit, I guess this is a lesson to always read your contract before you sign it. Societal coercion wont hold up in the court.

If you sign a document stating x, y, z. You are obligated to fulfill x, y, z because you signed it. Thats how contracts work. If they didnt understand the terms of the contract hire a lawyer or learn to read better.

[–]ivo09 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For fucking real, maybe I should complain that I took my job because I had no money and was presented with the opportunity to make some money. Precious little snowflake.

[–]Swbp0undcakeCloud9 Fan 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's what reddit does. Look at all the patronizing comments in this thread- everyone instantly believes Regi in this thread and Sean in the other one. No one's looking at the whole story and very few people are saying both parties are at fault (which, imo, they are)

[–]xPyrez 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Technically almost every top comment on both threads is supporting Regi, even in the sean gares thread now. Just needed the hive mind to go down and have people that actually read the messages and facts come out and get upvoted. Both posts confirm that none of the players talked to their orgs about being in PEA. Not talking to your boss about problems and choosing to talk to a random person who has nothing to do with your salary/contract that you signed legally just proves you can't trust them. No business wants a player they cant trust. It sucks even more when TSM may have actually been the organization that started going in the right direction, assuming Regi did leave PEA first because of his players wishes. Now they'll never have that chance and every player on TSM is in a shit position because of the public way seangares put this out there.

[–]ArielScyncFnatic Fanatic 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (31子コメント)

Man, what a treat today has been. This shit's spicy.

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 84 ポイント85 ポイント  (30子コメント)

As a mod on the TSM subreddit. Fuck the past hour. Fuck it right in the ass.

[–]ArielScyncFnatic Fanatic 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (5子コメント)

LMAO, I took a peek at the sub about 20 minutes ago. Shit's goin' down.

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (2子コメント)

It has been a fucking nightmare the past month between the no Korean ADC and Turtle.

[–]hoorayforcam 169 ポイント170 ポイント  (11子コメント)

/u/lurppis_ on twitter:

So now sgares manipulated TSM's players... Who manipulated all the other teams then?

Before you'd leave PEA, but now "ready to discuss"?

[–]rrrayyy 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Exactly. According to those chat logs, maybe TSM's players were just listening to sgares. They did not read the letter but they signed it anyway which is their responsibility, not Sean's. What's more, 'manipulate' is such a strong word. Regi did not provide proof for that at all. Talking is NOT manipulation.

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Check out Twistzz gf/sister's (i'm not too sure) twitter, her posts seem to blame TSM not Sean so it backs up the theory they were pressured into denouncing the letter

https://twitter.com/caracsgo

[–]shockswegCounter Logic Gaming Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Clearly his gf idk how u would assume thats his sister..

also she's 14, her tweets cannot be that relevant

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

well yeah she's 14 that's why I assumed it could be his sister

[–]allthefoxes 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Hmm..heres my concern, perhaps an asshole comment

See this log: https://gyazo.com/a79fb14148a6a46a1cfdcbf550edc023

Now, being a professional CS:GO player isn't easy and requires a lot of time commitment..but this seems to be such a big issue. "Oh I never educated myself..."

The players need to start caring, every single one, in order to improve their own situation.

[–]allthefoxes 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Especially considering how one party says "it was never exclusive" but everyone else says "its basically exclusive" and all this crazy shit floating around...the players themselves need to dive in head first and really start to tackle this themselves. And thats 50000x easier to say than do...but thats how these things get fixed.

[–]styleh 571 ポイント572 ポイント  (43子コメント)

To all the people saying sgares is in the wrong. The players chose Sirscoots to represent them and the team owners knew about this! In the letter it is stated that Sirscoots reached out to PEA and the team owners about their concerns. They even had meetings! So the fact that TSM owner is mad because they went public is his own making. He knew Sirscoots represented the players.. He knew about their concerns.. His response together with the PEA was basically "you cant choose where to play because of your contracts"... So the fact that he is all about "if you had only come to me personally with your concerns i would have left PEA" I dont buy for a second! Its only now, after it went public, that he is all of a sudden concerned about the players rights! If he had been from the start he should have done something about it when Sirscoots approched him!

[–]InfamousBLTOpTic Gaming Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously this. The time for talking individually has passed. Sean is standing up for every other player and their decision to work with OMGScoots by not taking about it with Regi at this point. Sure Regi sounds reasonable now because he has to. But the point is it's too late for him to be reasonable. The time to be reasonable was before the players felt the need to sign the open letter.

[–]Marrked 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Lol Shazam "Lol I'm just going along with the others." Quick to throw everyone under the bus.

Anyway, I'm calling bullshit. You cannot decide which events players can and can't compete in.

Weren't there player representatives in on the vote? Didn't they express displeasure of the format of said vote? Didn't they not like that you weren't going to allow them to compete in ESLPL? This all happened BEFORE the letter.

So yes, I concede that Sean is being slightly immature to release personal conversation logs like this. But Regi is covering his ass here. Sean got the players together and they chose to be a part of it. But you know what? Regi is thinking it's the TSM brand that is being tarnished, and I don't see it that way. It's the collection of Orgs Deciding to over rule the player representatives in PEA and push forward with their totalitarian tournament.

Why are we not hearing more of the negotiations between ESL and PEA? From what I know so far, ESL offered something, but PEA didn't take it and then was going to force their players out of ESLPL.

Don't have a short term memory. Remember the whole story until it is all explained.

Edit: At the very least this is the penultimate example of why player unions should exist. It sounds like it could have been great to have PEA in theory. But misunderstandings on both sides have shot that down, for now.

[–]25BennieTactics 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seems a bit like poor management if you are unable to see that either this is going on behind your back or even that you cannot see that players have not been interested in being excluded from leagues like what PEA was trying to do

[–]yamoth 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Is it just me or is the timeline doesn't add up? Seems like the conversation with Shahzam happened after Regi fired Sean.

[–]AMagicalTreeSK Gaming Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty likely that they couldve blamed sean to save their ass

[–]curtis846 307 ポイント308 ポイント  (71子コメント)

Every time Reginald was put in a position where the public is wrongly assessing the situation, he responds with proofs and reasonable arguments.

On the other hand though...

[–]ConnorK5iBUYPOWER Fan 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (26子コメント)

On the other hand though I'm still not sure what PEA gets out of making the players not compete in EPL.

Oh and Sean to Cloud9 EZ.

[–]notR1CH 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (17子コメント)

It's a negotiating position. Say you're a team owner and EPL is making a ton of money using your brand and players and they aren't doing any revenue share. You may feel that's unfair, so you try and negotiate to get a revenue share / appearance fees / etc. Your leverage is your brand / players participation in the league, since that's really the only thing you have to bargain with. It sucks for EPL if all the big teams don't join and it sucks for the players, so eventually an agreement will be reached that both sides are happy about. While I have no idea what PEA and EPL wanted or how close to an agreement they were, it seems this was still ongoing when the players letter happened, which probably undermined the whole process since the players are effectively saying "we want to play regardless".

[–]raascoOverpass Veteran 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Correct, but shouldn't the players have a choice of which leagues they want to participate in? Either way, the power lies in the consumers. If nobody watches the PEA, how will they profit? For example, if the C9 players were to get dropped from the org, I would rather watch the ex-c9 team than some scrub five that the org would pick up last minute. The power should be held with both the org and the players. That's the only way esports will ever work. MLB, NFL, NHL are proof to this after decades of trial and error.

[–]colormegray 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (11子コメント)

but shouldn't the players have a choice of which leagues they want to participate in?

No. They should and do have a choice in which organization they choose to play for. Once they have decided and contracts are signed, they are employees of said organization. They should have a voice and be considered when organizations choose which leagues they wish to participate in, but that is all. The orgs are trying to leverage their brands in these leagues in order to become more profitable. Having employees undermine these deals by acting out publicly against their employers greatly diminishes that leverage and hurts their reputation.

[–]notR1CH 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Since you mentioned it, it's worth pointing out that MLB, NFL and NHL all have revenue sharing with the participating teams. Esports needs something similar since the money that comes in from broadcast rights and league sponsorship is staying entirely with the leagues right now. We won't get that simply out of the leagues deciding to be nice one day.

[–]warincGuardian Elite 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

If the teams wanted to use the players as leverage. The teams should probably have talked to the players in the first place.

[–]SirMctrolington 89 ポイント90 ポイント  (19子コメント)

Sean's handling of this has really painted him in a poor light. I hope for Sean's sake he didn't sign an NDA because there could be financial repercussions for him if he did.

[–]Based_RNGesus 51 ポイント52 ポイント  (18子コメント)

They both fucked up here. If we try and be as objective as possible, the entire thing with TSM is fucked. Regi made decisions about PEA without talking to the players (supposedly) or the terms of the PEA agreement changed unexpectedly, Sean and the players went public with the letter super early without talking to the orgs directly, and apparently at least a few of the players agreed to this letter without actually knowing anything about the situation. Regi uses that to support him, but honestly it just makes everyone look bad and shows how naive the players in this scene are. If the new guy on the team, even if he is already widely respected, can "manipulate" these players to do what he wants, what the fuck do we think the owners, the people responsible for their livelihood, could do in a one on one conversation. This whole thing is a shitstorm.

[–]Stilwell__ 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (5子コメント)

If the new guy on the team, even if he is already widely respected, can "manipulate" these players to do what he wants, what the fuck do we think the owners, the people responsible for their livelihood, could do in a one on one conversation.

Which is exactly why Regi wanted the players to come to him directly and speak their differences individually. People will probably instantly flip to Regi's side on this because it's the latest piece of news out, but he wants to speak to them individually so that there is no group unity. A player's union is the very last thing the owners want and dividing/conquering players is the best way to keep it from happening.

[–]iBPIDFiBUYPOWER Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

but he wants to speak to them individually so that there is no group unity

meanwhile everyone's like "ask sean" lol

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Honestly the spout between Regi and Sean just hurts the scene overall. ReDeYE tweet had already poked some holes in the Player's letter, but now it is public that stuff just wasn't discussed at all and some manipulation went on. If players and owners really want to solve the issues the players talked about in their letter, then both sides are going at it the wrong way.

[–]__Lainn!faculty Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Honestly the spout between Regi and Sean just hurts the scene overall

no. it helps. we need to know what's happening.

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

We do, but the manner this is going down is a nightmare and seems childish.

[–]JakobTheOneCloud9 G2A Fan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Yeah, Sean should have spent some time in the League subreddit. Drama aimed at TSM/Regi usually have a way of backfiring very, very harshly. From the looks of this, it seems that's what's about to happen here.

[–]highongoodvibesGambit Gaming Fan 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

People don't seem to realize that the TSM players don't want to get kicked by the person who pays them lol. The idea that Sean manipulated TSM players is laughable and just a way to push off blame onto him so that regi and the players can get away scot free all the while fucking up the players union.

[–]PerfectlyClearTeam EnvyUs Fan 128 ポイント129 ポイント  (57子コメント)

Reginald returns serve with a backhand your move Sean

[–]chWarMachineOverpass Veteran 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (50子コメント)

I'm confused here. Why the heck would u approve something u haven't read. I don't understand what kind of decision making that is by shahzam and the others. 'Hey we haven't read this players letter but lets give them approval to put our names on it.' There's a big questionmark to that.

[–]pantslessmaniacCloud9 Fan 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hey if Sean was able to convince the other players to sign something without reading it, at least it shows he's a convincing IGL

[–]That_Cripple400k Hype 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

idk, according to Dekay, they were instructed to say they didnt read it

[–]thyrfaVictory 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (27子コメント)

[–]DleL 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (12子コメント)

Well either he or Shaz is lying, because shaz straight up said in the screenshot

https://gyazo.com/24392111a18b0f47db913d6425f7612a

"Nah we didn't get to see the letter until it was published. I asked about being able to read it before but Scoots they were on a tight timeline where they couldn't wait for everyone to approve it but we still just gave the ok to him"

[–]thyrfaVictory 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean, it's shazam. I would trust scoots over him any day. Shazam has consistently proven, when he gets involved in every single NA scene drama, that he will say basically anything that he thinks the other party wants to hear.

[–]Alexrock88Guardian 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shahzam is a rat. Always has been, always will. He scurries into any drama he can and then bitches out in the end. Inexcusable actions from a grown man. He's 23, and yet players as old as 18 seemingly ALWAYS act in a more mature and mannered way than his slimy ass.

[–]angelbelleOpTic Gaming Fan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think Regi necessarily lied but it looks like Shaz buckled because he felt intimidated. Thing is, once it gets to this point, Regi should not be talking directly to the people who have selected a representative to....represent them.

[–]ValkonnFnatic Fanatic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This statement doesn't conflict with Scoots statement. I bet shaz just said "yeah whatever" and only now is he upset because he is facing backlash.

[–]Lem-LemoncloakTeam Liquid Fan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ask yourself this: Which of these people is in a situation where lying directly benefits them and their career?

[–]tomatoFeles 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (9子コメント)

May I request text from Scoots twtilonger? It's blocked for me due to stupid regulations.

[–]Compromyze 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

"FYI, the players were informed of and approved the tone and messaging of the letter. They were given the option to preview the exact copy in advance. Those that wished to do so, did so, and approved the exact copy before it was published. Many players said that the tone and messaging was enough for them to approve and since the letter has been published, no player has contacted me with any concerns about their name being attached to it. If anything, we have been contracted by even more PEA players who are now supportive of our cause. The owners are fishing for a way to discredit and break up the #playersrights movement. They should be focusing on the players requests and concerns and not on trying to split them up by arguing semantics."

[–]korsan106 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I mean regi included some proof on his post instead of his own word

[–]Snowplexor 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (7子コメント)

They were probably told x and y things and that their lives as players will get better with this. My guess is: similar to contracts, some may not have fully read the letter and decided put their approval blindly.

[–]chWarMachineOverpass Veteran 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You're probably right. Shahzam seems like a real ppl pleaser. 'Yeah boss I'm sorry.' What the hell man. Your IGL/Teamleader just took into account getting cut from the team because of something he believes is important to stand up for. And he's like 'Yea well I actually didn't read the letter and just gave my ok.. pls don't cut me from the team.. pretty pls.'

[–]ShahZaMcsShahzeb "ShahZaM" Khan 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (5子コメント)

My convo with Reginald was when the letter was first released, before anything had happened to the roster.

[–]chWarMachineOverpass Veteran 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok I see. But why did u say yes to the letter then? 'I just do whatever the rest does' ... what the hell man? U can't be serious here. U approve something. All of the sudden it draws a lot of heat and u play some sort of victim card. 'Hey boss I'm sorry. I mean I said yes to whatever the fak that letter was but I didn't know that this would happen.' 'But why did u approve it then?' 'Hm well idk just because haha.'

Instead of saying 'Hey sorry Boss, I made a big bubu by agreeing to something I didn't know what it was about. But I'm gonna stick with sean and what the letter says.' There end of story. This should've been your response. But ultimately u have a big sign above your head saying 'Damage control'.

[–]Thehacker4chanG2 Esports Fan 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (3子コメント)

They're obviously being pressured by Reggie, you can see how he leads them into what they're saying, by going like "so you didn't mean x, you meant y" etc. I mean Reggie is a business guy so obviously he knows how to spin situations better than Sean

[–]Rock48 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not ready to take a side on this yet, but you have a point. There's a reason you're not allowed to ask that type of question in court.

[–]Chotothegoth 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

seems a bit fishy that the screenshots regi posted were dated from a couple minutes to a couple hours from when sean went public on twitter.

[–]IRunToTheSunmousesports Fan 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The players did not read nor understand the letter.... sounds familiar.

[–]rysergtNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Those players are adult now.

How dafuq a matured man can sign something important without reading and understanding it ?

[–]manslayer22Team SoloMid Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You'd be surprised how often it happens. I mean you do ever read the TOS to anything? There is some pretty important stuff in there.

[–]Ajp_iiiOpTic Gaming Fan 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (2子コメント)

that is the owner trying to make it seem like sean and scoots bullied the players into signing. no player has wanted his name removed from the letter.

[–]mofothehobo 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They tend to not read nor understand their contracts before signing either.

[–]hcwtiBUYPOWER Fan 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (0子コメント)

In this case, it really does leave Sean looking worse.

That said? Anything with even the smallest hint of exclusivity really ought to be attacked, leaving the teams going after it looking bad. That's pretty much the only way we avoid exclusivity bullshit, and I really hope Valve puts the effort into blocking exclusivity.

[–]JmSunbroFaZe Clan Fan 72 ポイント73 ポイント  (27子コメント)

Holy shit shazam and sick are such pussies

[–]ConnorK5iBUYPOWER Fan 76 ポイント77 ポイント  (12子コメント)

ShahZam about has his back against the wall. Literally burned so many bridges with players and orgs, probably trying to save his career.

[–]Ajp_iiiOpTic Gaming Fan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

shahz probably doesnt want to argue with anybody by himself. and the others are too young to say anything bad about any owner. that is why they grouped together.

[–]thyrfaVictory 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But he just keeps doing it... Worse in this situation to try to play both sides and pull the "I have no clue whats happening talk to someone else" card than to man up and agree or disagree with the situation.

[–]rysergtNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (7子コメント)

this.

I think there isn't any org in NA that want Shahzam anymore xD

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (6子コメント)

This is really what happened here. Regi intimidated them, they backed down, now he's using it as "proof" that he's 100% right and Sean's the devil.

[–]Ajp_iiiOpTic Gaming Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

and his wording leads them on

[–]thepentagon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

The problem is there's no proof for the other side of the argument, Sean's proof works against him.

[–]Joolazoo 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So everyone in the other post was saying the TSM plaers are going to leave and the players have been showing they are discontent for months.

Now they want to stay on TSM so badly Reginald is blackmailing them to lie about what happened? What?

Also, accusing someone of blackmail with no evidence is so fucking dumb it's hilarious. The hypocrisy of you criticizing his proof and then randomly saying it's blackmail with literally not even a hint of that being relevant is beautiful.

[–]onVoidCloud9 Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

he misled and manipulated my other players

[–]Sn0wd 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This seems bad from all sides. The org shouldn't feel blind sided that their players didn't discuss concerns privately with them, that's what the PEA reps were there for. The letter didn't even really tarnish the orgs names, just said that they were forgetting about the players and brushing past them, which they're clearly doing with this response of "Let's find a way to discredit and dismantle this criticism rather than address".

On the other hand it looks like quite a few players weren't involved in the process of drafting and sending the letter. That shows some breakdown on the player part in communication but I don't see many players really being too upset with what was asked of in the letter, just upset in how the org reacted. Reginald personally seeking out these players and starting with "I'm unhappy with what your name is on" clearly starts things putting these players on the defensive. It looks like all of these conversations were "Who's to blame? Sean? Good boy for giving him up! I like you!"

Bad from both sides but I think this just hurts Reginald even more

[–]SnohhyGuardian 2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Did reginald talk to the players about leaving esl's league at all?(dont know which is why im asking)

[–]TheFatalWound 69 ポイント70 ポイント  (30子コメント)

Poor soul's gonna learn what happens when you try to fuck with Regi. This shit's happened in the League scene a handful of times, and it's never ended well for them. Regi knows his shit.

[–]kamikazecow 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It helped that tsm is the biggest brand in the world of league, he won't have that kind of leverage here. Orgs lost the fight this year against Riot as well, which is probably why they're pushing the PEA so hard.

[–]korsan106 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (2子コメント)

orgs didnt lose the fight riot is trying to give teams more money right now

[–]TheCanadian666 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah it's more like orgs and Riot came to a mutually beneficial agreement. Nobody fucking lost there.

[–]Echleon 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Riot is introducing a lot of stuff the teams wanted.. wouldn't say they lost

[–]RawrhockFnatic Fanatic 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

https://twitter.com/SirScoots/status/812145880379760640

Interesting to point out, although it seems Shah and Sick don't feel strongly either way.

[–]Lasermoon 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically they have no backbone

[–]Mfjelle 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

People in here really have problem looking at things in a bigger picture. They just read and accept thing both this and sean's tweet. When something is at stake people will always put themselves in a better light or argue the point they have a chance of winning/looking better in. Imo Sean should have contacted Regi. But Regi responds in a way as if he literally didn't know what was going on in PEA lol. He just seems like the type of person you dont bother arguing because he plays dumb and switches subject and argue semantics. As far as the players statements it seems as if they will agree to anything. They probably dont really have an opinion and just goes with the flow.

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did Sean mislead his teammates or did PEA and the org owners mislead the players and Sean brought it to his teammates' attention and was the vocal one in the matter?

Sure, he could've gone to Reginald beforehand, but it's very clear from the letter that the intention was never to trash any of the orgs but to reach a peaceful compromise and resolve the issues. He could've very easily gone to Sean about this and said "I don't like that you did this without talking to me, I'd like you to put out a statement on Twitter and clear the record a little bid because I don't think your intentions were to tarnish the TSM brand," instead of moving straight to "I'm going to start looking for a replacement for you."

Why does Sean have to go to Reginald before SIGNING A LETTER, but Reginald doesn't have to come to the players before a decision about PEA or preventing them from playing league?

[–]Mayday9158OpTic Gaming Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Did anyone read this thread at all https://twitter.com/NWDeKay/status/812130033917530113

[–]angelbelleOpTic Gaming Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

CLG is gonna be the rock vote here, i'm calling it. Hotshot doesn't look like he's standing that firmly beside Regi.

[–]Alash1092Cloud9 Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Coming from league, I dont think a lot of people is CS get that Regi is usually a pretty good owner, the points he makes about Sean are pretty fair I think. Sean has a legitimate reason to be upset about this but the way he handled it when confronted by his new (very new) boss was not ideal for either of them.

[–]hatefulemperorVirtus.Pro Fan 25 ポイント26 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Everything here seems to look bad for Sean. If none of those players read the letter then all of what the letter is based on falls to pieces. Sean put the names of four players on TSM without them having read the letter. I think that Regi could have handled this better by putting out an immediate statement that due to the fears of the players with an exclusivity league, TSM would be dropping out of PEA at the earliest opportunity. Then there would have been a big "Yay TSM. Look at them supporting their players." Now there is going to be a lot of confusion toward who is in the wrong and who isn't, that will damage the reputations of everyone involved. The main hope I have for this situation is that all ideas of exclusivity leagues will be left in the dust.

[–]thyrfaVictory 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (22子コメント)

[–]hatefulemperorVirtus.Pro Fan 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Sure, but that is scoots saying that, Regi has skype conversations. It's quite obvious that unless the players are lying for some reason, Scoots is either wrong or lying.

[–]bleak-outlookGodsent fan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (9子コメント)

The stories don't contradict though. Never mind.

Scoots' reputation is pretty fucking clean.

[–]iZyphurTeam Liquid Fan 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Shazam saying scoots didn't let him read it until it was published is a pretty fucking clear contradiction.

[–]palshedeTeam SoloMid Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

They do???

https://gyazo.com/24392111a18b0f47db913d6425f7612a

Shah: "Nah we didnt get to see the letter until it was published. I asked about being able to read it before but Scoots they were on a tight timeline where they couldnt wait for everyone to approve it but we still just gave the ok to him"

So Shah is saying he wanted to see the document, but couldnt because Scoots is on tight schedule.

Scoots: "FYI, the players were informed of and approved the tone and messaging of the letter. They were given the option to preview the exact copy in advance. Those that wished to do so, did so, and approved the exact copy before it was published."

Those who wanted to preview it had the chance.

[–]bleak-outlookGodsent fan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I just saw that (didn't see that when I commented).

Honestly, if it's a question of whether shahzam or scoots is telling the truth, I'm going with scoots. He has nothing to lose from this while shahzam does (and shahzam's past is dirty as hell).

[–]Lasermoon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Taking shazams word in a private convo for granted ... lul

[–]thyrfaVictory 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mean, I'd take Scoots word over Shahzam's word any day of the week. Scoots has a pristine record, Shahzam has a terrible one.

[–]krazyboi 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (1子コメント)

The way scoots is talking, it feels like he has his back towards the wall and has no reasonable way out of this. He's just looking for community support at this point as opposed to evidence.

[–]Lasermoon 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Check twists twitter favourites. He supports sgares but is afraid of the org

[–]allthefoxes 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think thats good enough...some of these players just..don't care.

"oh i just want to play CS"

well, some of them don't seem to care or want to take the time to get themselves in a position that will allow them to do so. I understand, but at the same time I don't

[–]alockaVirtus.pro Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Scott Smith · @SirScoots 23rd Dec 2016 from TwitLonger

FYI, the players were informed of and approved the tone and messaging of the letter. They were given the option to preview the exact copy in advance. Those that wished to do so, did so, and approved the exact copy before it was published. Many players said that the tone and messaging was enough for them to approve and since the letter has been published, no player has contacted me with any concerns about their name being attached to it. If anything, we have been contracted by even more PEA players who are now supportive of our cause. The owners are fishing for a way to discredit and break up the #playersrights movement. They should be focusing on the players requests and concerns and not on trying to split them up by arguing semantics.

[–]CulcasiCloud9 Fan 86 ポイント87 ポイント  (25子コメント)

Regi uses [Logic and Reasoning]

It's super effective!

[–]CptAlohaTSM Kinguin Fan 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Reddit - It has no effect!

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Accept everything Regi says or you're a circlejerking idiot Redditor!

[–]ubli 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (8子コメント)

but he has screen shots

[–]angelbelleOpTic Gaming Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Language is pretty strong arming and intimidating though. It's like

"C'mon Billy, tell this nice officer that daddy didn't beat you with a belt. You don't want anything bad to happen right?"

[–]iampenguintmRenegades Fan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actual example of that in the screenshots?

[–]krazyboi 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It only reassures the people that believed Regi was in the right whereas the general reaction towards this all will probably still think Sean was doing it justly. Regi is still professional and Sean is still the fan favorite, nothing has really changed.

[–]fullygully 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shah is bad, his CS career is on its last legs, of course he would say what he said, if ever kicked by TSM expect him to play on a really low tier team

[–]Verax__Team Wolf Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

For those that can't access it

Let's start at the beginning. At no point did my players directly talk to me about not wanting to participate in PEA. This isn’t about the PEA it’s about Sean’s actions as my player. Seangares signed to start on TSM on December 16th. In less than a week, he misled and manipulated my other players, convincing them to add their names to a letter they had not read and did not understand.

When I saw the post yesterday I was shocked and honestly felt betrayed that my players felt that they were mistreated enough to publicly bash our brand. So I reached out to the players individually because I was blindsided by this situation. Sean convinced all of our players to tweet with the hashtag #playerrights which suggests that TSM is mistreating all of our players and taking their rights away.

https://gyazo.com/8c291326f8f541d3acfb4eda84b22670 https://gyazo.com/24392111a18b0f47db913d6425f7612a https://gyazo.com/a79fb14148a6a46a1cfdcbf550edc023

My conversation with Skyler and Twistzz was over a call so unfortunately I don’t have any logs of that, but they echoed the same message as the other players. After I found out what was going on from the other players I started to feel that they were being misled by Sean Gares and it was then that I told him that we cannot have a working relationship.

What do you do when you find out one of your players of less than a week is working against you and your company? How can I trust Sean on my team when he can’t even bother to talk to me personally about his concerns before taking a public stance against me? At this point my working relationship with Sean had been tarnished, I could not trust to keep him on my team.

I tried to end things amicably. Even after learning what happened with the letter, I was willing to work things out with Sean (as can be seen in the logs), but unfortunately Sean again chose not to directly engage with me and expressed he would prefer to leave TSM. I will not hold Sean in contract jail, I will let him go to whichever team he wants, but I will not let Sean tarnish my reputation when he is being disingenuous with the community on how the events played out with my team. Again, I did not fire him for #playerrights which he is saying to mislead the community.

I have since spoken with the 4 other players on my team, Sick, Relyks, Twistzz, Shahzam, about the situation and they have apologized to me privately about how this all played out. They do not feel that we mistreated them or have any ill will towards TSM.

I’m fine with players fighting for player rights and I believe they should stand up for themselves and what they believe in but this is a case of Sean manipulating the 4 other players on my team. There are much more productive ways for them to handle this situation, call me, talk to me, refuse to play - but shaming me before understanding my intentions is not productive.

TLDR: My players AND Sean had never expressed ANY of their feelings about PEA or the letter to me privately, if they did I’m open to discussing the issue with them. I felt blindsided by the letter once it was published on Reddit. I reached out to the players individually and they all said Sean told them to do this. I felt Sean, my player, was working to hurt me without any intention of compromise therefore I no longer wish to work with him.

I had no intentions of posting these logs publicly but I feel like I'm left without a choice.

[–]Tur8oNuke Veteran 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If Sean had talked to Regi on his own before the letter was published, I severely doubt Regi would have been so keen to drop the PEA. Of course he would listen to the players after the whole of the internet wanted orgs and the PEA dead because of the player's letter - why would he keep it? It's just bad PR. But of course in hindsight he can just say he would have dropped PEA all along and say Sean made a bad move by not talking to him.

Of course, if Sean had just talked maybe they could've settled this more diplomatically... but I guess it's too late for that now.

[–]papipescadoCloud9 Fan 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shahzam is such a snake lmao, threw sgares under the bus

[–]theholylancer 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

so regi, lots of evidence on sean being implusive and tarnishing the brand and you, but then this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hsdSv0kYJg&feature=youtu.be&t=47m3s

why did you also not backed out of this? if this was about the image of TSM and of you, then let's bring it back to why was this was even needed. why did a single player or few player on your team felt that this is BS and had to pull the trigger on airing dirty laundry?

why did you not pull out when you saw what was in PEA?

[–]m1cksPhoenix 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Why is Sean being attacked for defending Players rights? PEA was attempting to do some shady shit by forcing players into certain leagues, TSM being apart of PEA, so sgares came out against it.

If Regi didn't want to be involved in this, and didn't want his players to come out against him, perhaps he shouldn't have been involved in PEA or should have been aware of what was going on inside of it.

Edit: This is another thing that triggers me about reddit: https://twitter.com/lurppis_/status/812144963391778817

[–]EhOhEl 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (11子コメント)

Regi went into PEA with good intentions, not knowing that the players didn't want it.

It's the same as if I bought you a pizza, and now you secretly hate my guts because your lactose intolerant and couldn't eat said pizza, now you hate my fucking guts cause I didn't know you were lactose intolerant.

Obviously the better thing to do is say, hey I'm lactose intolerant, please no pizza.

Sorry weird example, I'm tired pls forgive

[–]iSwedishVirusTeam EnVyUs Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Regi went into PEA with good intentions, not knowing that the players didn't want it.

Well maybe he should have talked with his players before deciding on joining PEA...

[–]cswithian 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

No, that's not really the same at all.

It's more like you bought a lactose intolerant person a pizza and then said 'this is the only thing you're allowed to eat, it's in your contract' without their approval at all.

Regi didn't go to the TSM players before agreeing to the PEA exclusive league. That goes both ways.

This is pretty obvious PR

[–]SoullessFire 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not really... It's more like the person who's lactose intolerant signed a contract with you saying that hey, I trust you to handle my food for me, and forgets to tell you that he's lactose intolerant.

[–]EhOhEl 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh ok, makes sense, I'm not fully aware of the full PEA situation, just started reading into it from the front page.

I am aware that regi is a PR god so perhaps you're right. ima grab popcorn

[–]Ajp_iiiOpTic Gaming Fan 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

no player has wanted his name taken off scoots letter. maybe they just dont want to go against you like sean did by himself. it is hard for a player to directly oppose an owner by himself that is why they grouped together with scoots.

[–]LntLethaLOpTic Gaming Fan 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (18子コメント)

If you think a letter about players rights "was working to hurt me without any intention of compromise", you maybe should think about what you are doing as an org owner

[–]lurkedlongtime 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (9子コメント)

There's a difference between talking about general rights and saying that your org was forcing you to participate in a tournament exclusively that you never even asked or knew about.

Saying it was about a broad spectrum of player rights I feel is a bit of a stretch. It was about the PEA

[–]Based_RNGesus 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The letter wasn't from sean to regi though. It was from 25 players to 5 orgs and PEA. Maybe regi wouldn't force his players to participate in PEA, but perhaps that did occur with some of the other orgs in the letter. By the TSM players signing the letter doesn't necessarily mean that TSM has treated their players wrong, it shows that the TSM players want to support their peers.

I think both sides are pretty in the wrong here, but the end result will probably be a players union which will be a really good thing for the scene.

[–]TomC588 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

By TSM players signing the letter, reddit concludes TSM has treated their players wrong. This can be seen in another thread where a post where sponsors were listed and encouraged reddit to contact sponsors was golded several times.

[–]Based_RNGesus 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't disagree with you necessarily, but if Regi comes out and backs the players and makes some PR statment about making sure that PEA stays true to what originally was promised to be then the TSM org would dodge most of the heat they got from the letter.

Like I said in my first post though, I don't think anyone is right in this situation. At least from everyone involved in TSM, this was handled literally as poorly as possible.

[–]m1cksPhoenix 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (2子コメント)

PEA was forcing players to play in certain tournaments, TSM was apart of PEA. If Regi didn't want to involved in the exclusivity shit and didn't want his players to come out against him in the situation, then maybe he shouldn't be apart of PEA.

[–]lurkedlongtime 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree but maybe if you are concerned with such a thing you should reach out and fact check with your boss before starting to make picket signs?

Fuck if I had heard some sketchy shit about my industry I wouldn't start shit until I confirmed with my superiors that said issue would affect me at my particular company

If I heard that it would, then yes then proceed

Of course Reginald isn't innocent but I also have little sympathy for people that didn't even bother to try and get all the facts.

I also remember this concerning the letter "every effort to resolve this amicably has failed so now we are here" can't remember if that was hazed in q comment or a part of the letter.

But thats turning out to not be exactly true has it?

[–]mannyman34Team Liquid Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Shahzam what a little weasel.

[–]slaxbrSK Gaming Fan 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with everything that Regi said, and I think Sean is in the wrong for not approaching Regi before convincing the other players on signing the letter. But I also think that Regi was wrong before the letter was released, because he knew about the whole "not able to play in EPL" bullshit and didn't talk with his players about it either. It was a communication failure from both parts IMO.

[–]lolofaf 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wait regi called the team at 3 30. Isn't that the time that he told Sean he was in a call and that he'd call later? Did he literally have a group call with all other 4 players exempting Sean?

EDIT: he just said he was on a call UNTIL 3 30. MY BAD

[–]TheBoyWhoCriedShark 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If there is one thing I've learned in the last few years, Regi is usually not trying to fuck his players

[–]vecter 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Reginald conducted business properly. Sean did not by going behind Regi's back and not communicating and trying to resolve the issue privately before going public. Going public is never your first move in business. It is always your last move. Sean is immature and doesn't understand how to properly conduct business in professional, mature manner. I hope he learns from his mistakes.

[–]asiimanGuardian Elite 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It wasn't, though. A letter from their representative, SirScoots, was sent weeks ago. Privately. Apparently nothing was being done after this, and Regi certainly seems to not have taken any initiative in response to this letter.

[–]memelord76Team eBettle Fan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Appropriate response from TSM imo, you can't go behind someone's back and pretend they're forcing you into something without even asking them first.

Players want to act like they're real employees working a job but think they can just disregard workplace etiquette and subvert their employers and get away with it

[–]TonyArnold2OpTic Gaming Fan 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Oh, shocker, when ShahZam and SicK's team owner basically threatens them with losing their jobs they tell him what he wants to hear.

[–]raascoOverpass Veteran 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damage control coming in hot!

[–]ZenMengCloud9 Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So let me get this straight. Sean is upset because TSM was signed up for PEA which excludes them for a league (EPL) which they aren't even qualified for (lol), so he goes behind his new orgs back and publicly hurts their name / rep.

First of all, why doesn't Sean wanna play PEA when they aren't even in EPL. If anything TSM is hooking them up by getting in a league with insane prize money.

Secondly, why not ask Regi or let him know they do not wish to play and based off Regi's response THEN go and take the public shaming route. Then to top it off he leaks all the private text messages which only show his lack of simple communication by ignoring calls and not giving Regi any clue that he was upset about PEA at all. He also essentially decides that he him self would rather leave the team, yet tweets that he has been "fired". I honestly don't see how anyone can side with Sean here.