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[–]sidipiModerator[M] [スコア非表示] stickied comment (58子コメント)

Although the title is a bit sensationalist, you can see that the talks broke down in the final stage of the conversation and both parties mutually parted ways.


Once again, For those who are from /r/all and for those who are not aware of what this is all about: Stealing the wonderful comment by /u/Pr0crastinat0r_ms which can be found here. Full credit to him.

What is PEA?
In September this year, 7 US based teams formed a group called Professional Esports Association (PEA). The teams that participated in this were: Team Solomid (TSM), Cloud9, Team Liquid, Counter Logic Gaming (CLG), Immortals, NRG eSports and compLexity Gaming. PEA decided to hold a league of their own which is supposed to span 10 weeks and with the alleged prize pool of $1 million. They even tweeted a nice picture which can be found here

What was PEA supposed to do?
This association promised to keep the players motives and benefits in mind and share the profit of the leagues among players and owners. In a way this was supposed to be a step forward in empowering the players and making their decisions heard. PEA was supposed to be a mediator between and along with the owners of the teams to share the rewards and strategic decision making with the players. They also promised transparency to the players and the community.

What did PEA actually do?
Nothing of what they actually proposed worked out in the benefits of the players. The player representation base in the decision making committe was easily out-voted. The players were forced to boycott a league (EPL) which they wanted to play, without asking them. And when clarifications were asked and attempts to negotiate this were made, they were out-voted and they were not given the entire picture, the documents that they asked for were not shared and they were slammed with the book (their contracts) when they asked what gave them the right to do so.

TL;DR?
So all the good things that PEA promised was not granted to anyone. The players from 5 of these 7 teams got together and chose SirScoots to represent them, as their negotiations with PEA and their owners did not go well, they did not want to keep this behind the curtains. Hence they decided to write this open letter showcasing the full picture of what was promised and what really happened. Below is the summary of the article listed in the post.

The open letter post

The comment also proceeds to write a summary of the article, I suggest you take a read if you cannot read the whole article. The article itself represents the thoughts and perspectives of the players of these teams represented by SirScoots.


Additional reading material on this matter and the aftermath of the letter (responses of owners, a twitlong by ReDeYe and a video by Richard Lewis) can also be found in this compilation thread.


This just in - Andy Dinh · @TSMReginald: Here is why I am removing Sean Gares.

TLDR: My players AND Sean had never expressed ANY of their feelings about PEA or the letter to me privately, if they did I’m open to discussing the issue with them. I felt blindsided by the letter once it was published on Reddit. I reached out to the players individually and they all said Sean told them to do this. I felt Sean, my player, was working to hurt me without any intention of compromise therefore I no longer wish to work with him.

Reginald has included conversation logs with Sick and Shahzam and says "Sean convinced all of our players to tweet with the hashtag #playerrights which suggests that TSM is mistreating all of our players and taking their rights away. ". In one of the conversation logs it was said that "We didn't get to see the letter till it was published"

Another "unified reply" by Relyks, on behalf of the remaining TSM players, Sick, Shahzam, Twistzz and himself

To address some of the statements made in Andy's post, in no way were we manipulated by Sean. Some of us may have had more information than others or been more involved in this endeavor, but we all understood what we were doing when we gave the okay to put our names on the letter. Also, the conversation logs with ShahZaM were before Sean was 'released'. We just want to make it clear that we weren't throwing him under the bus.

Sean: "My reply to @TSMReginald"

CLG Hazed: About Regi's reference to my tweet about George.

Edit: added in more information from Regi's letter.
Edit2: added in more info from Relyks twitlonger. Edit3: added sean's reply to Regi.
Edit4: added hazed's statement

[–]n00b9k1Natus Vincere Fan 2070 ポイント2071 ポイント  (169子コメント)

Thorin's Thoughts inc and it's going to be lit af.

[–]infm55 Year Subreddit Veteran 678 ポイント679 ポイント  (142子コメント)

I cant wait for that. He hates tsm as an org already.

[–]receptiveblocks 291 ポイント292 ポイント  (28子コメント)

"He hates tsm" is an understatement

[–]BlastoPlsCloud9 Fan 235 ポイント236 ポイント  (24子コメント)

When TSM LoL didn't make it out of groups at this years worlds, thorins twitter was a fucking gold mine.

[–]receptiveblocks 151 ポイント152 ポイント  (22子コメント)

He hates TSM fans more than TSM itself. So for worlds, he was going off mostly on their fans. The tweets were a different level of savage.

[–]seeker287 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Thorin have bashed a lot of TSM's players and staff in the history.

[–]OOOMMTeam SoloMid Fan 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Not really. He has made it pretty clear over the years that he dislikes Regi specifically. He went so far as to call Regi "probably one of the biggest assholes in esports" in one of his Thorin's Thoughts videos.

[–]Turbo2xVirtus.Pro Fan 334 ポイント335 ポイント  (103子コメント)

He's going to go off on Regi. This is what he was born to do.

[–]SchanziiG2 Esports Fan 252 ポイント253 ポイント  (86子コメント)

as much fun as it might be to see that, I feel like regi has a fair point here.

[–]YellowCityCloud9 Fan 194 ポイント195 ポイント  (79子コメント)

Regi's point here is "Hey, we are in this together, come to me and we can talk this out before committing to something else, like this players letter."

If that was truly the case though, wouldn't have Regi come to his players first before making this decision? To get the feedback from the people who are primarily affected by him and his Org's decision?

It seems kind of like a double standard to me.

Regi's side - How dare you do this to TSM's brand before talking to me.

Sean's side - How dare you make this decision for players before talking to them.

Edit: To the 100 "BC BOSS" replies I'm going to get - I ask that you look with more of an open mind. We already live in a world where those in power do not face repercussions for their actions.

Professional gaming is such a young and new profession. Not all "workplace stipulations" are going to be as transparent or black and white as they might be for us normal folk.

Edit 2: From Sean's response to Reginald's TwitLonger. Sean's response puts a lot of Reginald's statements to rest, and shows that Reginald was not being honest about the entire situation.

Sean G: "The way I see it, if the community finding out what really happened is damaging to you, then you only have yourself to blame."

[–]BoobrTeam Solomid Fan 65 ポイント66 ポイント  (18子コメント)

It seems kind of like a double standard to me.

Because it's supposed to be a double standard. Reginald is players boss, they will never be on an equal footing - they're not supposed to be. If i have problems with something at work then it's my responsibility to communicate this problem directly to my supervisor. Without me coming in with feedback they have 100% right to assume everything is completely fine.

[–]StrawRedditor 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (11子コメント)

they will never be on an equal footing - they're not supposed to be.

Yeah, the players are worth infinitely more than the boss, and Regi (and other owners know this) which is why they force them into these exploitative associations to keep a leash on them.

Tomorrow the teams of any one of these organizations can quit (assuming their contracts allowed), and say: "We're now XYZ sports team" and the former sponsors would be lining up. No one gives a fuck that "Cloud9" is at a tournament (as an example). They care that Shroud and Skadoodle and N0thing are at a tournament.

What the team does offer is some stability, and the players trade their freedoms for that stability, but it can't go too far. Denying players the right to go to the leagues/tourneys they want is going too far.

[–]OOOMMTeam SoloMid Fan 160 ポイント161 ポイント  (46子コメント)

Because Regi is the boss. This is how professional relationships work. If my manager or one of the VP's above me makes decisions that effect me and my work directly, I am of course welcome to go to them or HR (big company). They aren't going to run everything by me before they do it.

[–]carlfartlord 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (14子コメント)

You are conflating two different types of professional organizations. There is a definite and distinct divide between the talent (players) and the owners. There's a difference between a typical software engineer and a guy who is best in the world at shooting people in the head while thousands gladly watch them play.

[–]comso20 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Lets look at it this way. The owner of an NBA team isn't going to run ever decision by their player, but if they players have an issue they go to the owners or the players union and negotiate before striking.

[–]iainkidd 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Attempting to organize (form a union) is exactly what these players were doing.

[–]carlfartlord 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

But we can read the letter and see that these players have gone through the PEA in protest of decisions before and it was totally ineffective. It's not like these grievances materialized from nowhere. The guys at the top voted them down.

[–]SchanziiG2 Esports Fan 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (1子コメント)

idk what you are talking about exactly, but if you mean joining the PEA, that was done several months ago way before sean was on the team.

[–]PNKNSNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 116 ポイント117 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Have you listened to RLewis' video? He clearly states that he is probably putting his Turner career at risk. That is why players are represented by Scoots because noone has any leverage on him thus he is not afraid of "losing job". If Richard suggest that those owners might have influence of some kind at Turner, then even Thorin is in danger. At the same time, I think that Richard is on good terms with Turner, he was one of the original guys who had a lot to say when Eleague was proposed, he gave them lots of insight on talent and shit.. and Thorin is just someone who can't be replaced easily sooo... they might be alright. If not, we should back them up if necessary - we owe it to them.

But we know Thorin, he can't keep his mouth shut so prepare your popcorn for another 2 hour long video... and keep DMing :)

[–]TheGreatElector400k Hype 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (4子コメント)

When Thorin wakes up, it's going to be lit

[–]PNKNSNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I think he hasn't published any video yet because he is still recording it.. you know, 4 hours long, full of rage.. that is going to take some time to render and upload too... but it is worth waiting for it :D

[–]LikeABreadstickFnatic Fanatic 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (1子コメント)

4 hour video, 30 minutes of content, 3.5 hours of flawlessly worded, incredibly entertaining rage

[–]f_real 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

FUCK IT LET'S DO IT LIVE

[–]Lord7777Ninjas in Pyjamas Fan 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Watch Rlewis's video on the Scoots letter it is very good background info

[–]obamaluvrGuardian 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I noticed this is at the top of r/all for me. Anybody want to eloquently lay down the background for people who don't play this game?

[–]wickedplayer494 857 ポイント858 ポイント  (74子コメント)

siren in the background

And the nukes start flying.

Edit: now that a full-scale war has been initiated, will Valve let the war run its course, or will they decide that enough is enough and drop a Tsar Bomba on factions like PEA to end short-term faction warfare and leave Sean as a single casualty (or a couple of casualties by the time they could drop one)?

[–]PEETSUHLGB eSports Fan 3178 ポイント3179 ポイント  (288子コメント)

A bit sensationalist to say that he is fired for the Players' Letter. Seems like Regi tells Sean that he is releasing him for not communicating with him and tarnishing TSM's branding, and he even sounds like he is totally open to changing TSM's direction based on what the players want if they just make it clear to TSM what that is... Sean just keeps going back to "so you're firing me for standing up for players rights?" when that isn't what is happening at all...

[–]kidajske 716 ポイント717 ポイント  (44子コメント)

I kind of see it like this as well. But Reddit will always be on the side of the players since that's who they care about, not the orgs or the owners. I can see Seans point of view as well though, it is important that the players come together on a really big issue like this and it might not have made sense to diverge from the rest of the players by going to their owner.

Regardless, this is bad for CS and it fucking sucks.

[–]katemonster37 174 ポイント175 ポイント  (18子コメント)

I don't think regi would have problems with the players sticking together as much as him putting his name on a letter that says:

"...[Members of] Team SoloMid have jointly decided to publish this letter after recently being told by the PEA and our team owners that we do not have the right to choose where we compete and that they intend to prevent us from playing in ESL Pro League."

When it wasn't even a conversation. If it was a letter on players rights as a whole I think it would have been fine. But to start singling out your own new organization for something they haven't even done is very shitty.

[–]breadislive 277 ポイント278 ポイント  (19子コメント)

This x 100. I don't even care for tsm but you would be treated the exact same way in any other business.

[–]blames_irrationally 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Coming from League of Legends, Regi is also known to defend his players vehemently when they are honest and open with him. This was not for the letter, it was for not letting Regi know.

[–]minyakman 37 ポイント38 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea, and posting a private conversation for everyone to see. Anyone with decent common sense on future prospects of getting a job wouldnt do this. Drama mamas...

[–]Kamijigen_Neptune 163 ポイント164 ポイント  (39子コメント)

Just saw this on this post on r/all, i dont play csgo but i do follow league scene (from eu) so i do know tsm but not a fan. From an outsider view and reading the twitter post i dont understand what regi did that was wrong, seemed like he was firing him for the reasons you mentioned not against standing up fornplayers.

Again i dont follow csgo scene so i may sound foolish, hopefully someone in the comments will be able to explain why im misunderstanding

[–]raistlin212 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Background, 36 hours before this the players got together and released this: https://medium.com/@sirscootscs/an-open-letter-to-the-professional-esports-association-its-member-teams-and-the-counter-strike-db2fb8b55f75#.7bmzxiq35

If you read it, the players have been trying to stand up to some plans from the owners for a few weeks now. You can decide which story sounds more plausible: the 25 players have been fighting back against the owners since early December or they blindsided Regi by going public and he had no idea there were concerns.

[–]Kamijigen_Neptune 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ok i see what you mean now, ill have a read thanks

[–]katemonster37 94 ポイント95 ポイント  (33子コメント)

Yeah. To me it's like a group of employees going on strike without first talking to their managers about the pay that they want. Can make the company look bad when they haven't necesarilly done anything wrong or refused any compromises.

Sean should entirely have the voice to speak for players and join in on fighting for players rights but to allow your name to be put on a letter that says your team is taking away your rights when it wasn't even a conversation is some shady shit.

It absolutely does hurt TSM's image - people are giving regi shit for caring about the image but TSM is a business he owns, of course he cares about the image of it. If people started posting false statements about players, the players would give a shit too.

Sean picked the wrong letter to sign his name to, in my opinion.

[–]rdee3 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (19子コメント)

It was like, 95% PEA's image and 5% any specific org's image. If they want actual negative press, retaliating against the players is the best first move to make. Watch another org come out as sympathetic towards the letter and reap the rewards of competent public image management.

[–]Dr_WLINOpTic Gaming Fan 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Did you even read the letter?

There were discussions on the 7th and 9th of Dec. But they were really just "presentations" about how the PEA is good for the teams.

[–]SeppicOpTic Gaming Fan 223 ポイント224 ポイント  (20子コメント)

The dude was playing victim the entire time. And talk about click bait title. Everyone here is way too over emotional. Regi has a history of being one of the good owners who treats and pays his players well.

[–]topCyder 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (3子コメント)

one of the good owners

Tryndamere is that you?!?!?

But in all seriousness, I agree. The logs pretty much say it. I honestly think that had it been brought up, Regi wouldn't have just shot him down, he would have had a conversation. I know for a fact that Noah (IMT) would have, George (CLG) likely would too. Seeing as Noah has demonstrated that he cares about the players more than the money, it's hard to say he wouldn't. George's philosophy on teams in esports is that the best way to work together is if you develope an almost familial bond with your teammates. Regi cares about his players and his brand, because the only way he can take care of his players the way he does is through the trust investors have in the name TSM.

It's important to note that both George and Andy are former esports players. Andy took to running the team more like a business and that's pretty evident in how it operates. George doesn't really run it that way, which is why I'm glad that he has some good folks helping him work out the details, as he is so much more about the CLG family than the CLG bank account.

C9 Jack is a great guy, but does deal pretty hard and fast on these kinda things. He loves his team's, but he isn't afraid to lay down the law and will enforce his decisions. Great guy but much more owner-ly than Andy and George.

Noah is just kinda a chill dude. Really passionate about esports, and loves his players. Check this out if ya don't believe me.

Bias - I really like /u/IMT_Whinston as an owner, and I much more follow the league scene than CSGO (which is apparent looking at the subs I mod)

[–]Forever0csgo 186 ポイント187 ポイント  (29子コメント)

Its reddit man. They just see "seangares" or whatever player they love and just assume they were 100 percent right because they are unable to detach themselves from social identity theory and look at the problem full circle.

[–]PEETSUHLGB eSports Fan 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (24子コメント)

Yeah, the only thing I'm positive about is that I don't know the whole story so I can't really pick a side... But I do know that a lot of people are jumping on Sean's side when it is only Sean's side that we have seen.

[–]asgs_world 154 ポイント155 ポイント  (16子コメント)

I don't see how any adult who has had a job can read these screenshots and decide to take sgares' side. He fucked over his boss and company and refused to talk to him about it before during and after the situation lol.

[–]Bucefa1Astana Dragons Fan 64 ポイント65 ポイント  (2子コメント)

exactly, theres no fucking way in the REAL business that you let urself to screw up like that, and pretend like nothing happened.

[–]GloriousFireball 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems like Regi had plenty of heads up though, if the players timeline from the letter is to be believed.

On December 7th, Scott sent a letter on behalf of the players to the PEA and its team owners, expressing our concerns and seeking clarification about what we had heard.

So on December 14th, Scott sent another letter to the PEA relaying our position and requesting a formal written decision. The PEA replied requesting a phone meeting, and we were hesitant, but ultimately agreed to consider it. We explained that it would take some time, because we had players in Atlanta for the Major Qualifier. The next day, we found out that negotiations between the PEA and EPL were already over. It turned out that EPL had actually offered to share league revenues with the PEA as a kind of olive branch gesture, but the PEA had declined.

To me it sounds like Regi had known about their problems since the 7th of December, why did he wait until the letter came out almost two weeks later to take any action to talk to his players in depth?

[–]EngineRoom23 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (3子コメント)

A lot we don't know in this situation. But without doubt Sean could have represented himself better in this conversation. He didn't have to talk to Reggie (he didn't HAVE to do anything any which way) but he could have planned for a negative reaction once he took action. Be more upfront and say "I was worried about my labor being exploited. Other players felt the same way. I decided not to have a conversation with you about this because...." and state his case. I respect Sean trying to organize with his fellow players, that's the most important thing. I hope it turns out well for him.

[–]trustmeimaengineer 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (2子コメント)

He may not have HAD to talk to Reggie, but he was an absolute idiot not to.

[–]SublimeSCVeryGames Fan 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Almost nobody in here is trying to look at the whole story. They are just taking the players perspective for the truth and circlejerking that side.

[–]s7evCloud9 G2A Fan 1113 ポイント1114 ポイント  (78子コメント)

Honestly I'm ok with this Regi made a good point they should have talked with the owners probably especially since Sean just joined the team

Edit: I love Sean but i don't really like that Sean posts a photo of their private texts.

[–]Cameter44Cloud9 Fan 99 ポイント100 ポイント  (8子コメント)

The owners (as a whole, maybe not as individuals) were part of the issue with PEA. It seems like they wanted to address them all at once instead of continuing the conversation in private where they clearly weren't getting anything done.

[–]Drodman93 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (7子コメント)

doesnt this go both ways lmao, the orgs should have talked to the players before forcing the PEA shit and forcing them to drop outta ESL, its clear the players don't like it.

[–]deepriBUYPOWER Fan 102 ポイント103 ポイント  (10子コメント)

sean was saying throughout the whole thing that it was better to communicate as a whole instead of alone and i can see why though

[–]KatakiYCache Veteran 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah I think its absolute dog shit that they put sean in this spot in the first place I highly doubt this is the first time anyone said they didnt like not being able to choose where they play.

Every team on PEA should have known that this anti competitive bullshit shouldnt stand.

[–]kronkonk 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

As Regi said. Sean is playing the victim. Sean is clearly in the wrong if anyone bothered to read the whole thing.

[–]MastadgeCloud9 G2A Fan 791 ポイント792 ポイント  (38子コメント)

This title is super misleading. Sean Gares is being dropped because he didn't even bother to talk to Andy about their issues with PEA before posting the letter and putting a bad light on their brand. Andy even says he would have dropped out of PEA had the players requested it, but Sean didn't say anything to Andy at all.

EDIT: Reginald's response. I implore you to read all it

[–]ricernSplyce Fan 71 ポイント72 ポイント  (3子コメント)

yea but how is that gonna bring in the D R A M A

[–]v1ct0r1us 114 ポイント115 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Lol, what do you expect on a subreddit full of children who have no idea about business culture? I don't really follow either of these people but Sean is being very unprofessional here.

[–]Big_Stick01Team Liquid Fan 325 ポイント326 ポイント  (35子コメント)

Sean was the one who ultimately said he wished to separate outright... i don't know if i would classify that as "i was fired"

[–]xXTurdleXx 91 ポイント92 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I don't follow CSGO, but I follow League, so can someone explain why this is bad? Regi seems totally reasonable in what he did, and Sean Gares seemed to have caused everything.

[–]dumphieFnatic Fanatic 87 ポイント88 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Regi is totally reasonable, this is reddit tho so people just tend to side with whoever they care about most.

[–]ras777a 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Regi is being completely reasonable. This post is so trash. The title clashes with the evidence inside it. To not talk to your superior before complaining about your work environment reminds me of complaining about my high school job when I was 16.

[–]-c-grim-c- 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Depending on the wording of Sean's contract, he may have fucked himself out of a payout by saying that.

[–]Mr_Skullfacegunhands 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, he explicitly states he wants to be separated. So why are people getting upset over this?

[–]Silver727 551 ポイント552 ポイント  (74子コメント)

Well I read everything.

It all seems relatively reasonable on Regis part?

He's basically asking for them to at least call and talk to him if they have a disagreement with the org or playing PEA or not playing something. Basically saying hey lets talk before you blast a letter out to everyone.

Regi even says "Please talk to me." and "Please call me." Seems like hes trying to work things out.

Sean says they just want to work through Scoots. Regi wants to talk to Sean. Regi basically says ok you guys don't want to play PEA league fuck it we wont play PEA league lets work this out and fix things.

Sean wants to go to bed / go take a shower / go play DM? Then Sean is the one at the end saying "it might be best for us to part ways"? How is that Sean getting fired?

I really like Sean I hope things get worked out.

[–]seanzy61Virtus.Pro Fan 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (4子コメント)

You do understand that Sean talking to Regi and being open about all of this with him dramatically weakens the position for all the players involved? That was the point of Sirscoots letter and him speaking on their behalf. If the teams start compromising with their individual owners they weaken their position dramatically.

Yea it is great Regi wants to be open about all of this now, but at the end of the day he was forcing exclusivity upon his players and they reacted in the way that put them in the best possible position. As one unified group.

[–]CrabbyTunaOpTic Gaming Fan 276 ポイント277 ポイント  (34子コメント)

This shit is getting ridiculous.

If you are uninformed, Richard Lewis made this video all about the shitstorm that will be the 2017 CS scene.

[–]illuminatidude 142 ポイント143 ポイント  (29子コメント)

Can someone tl;dr this, can't do a whole hour of Richard Lewis.

[–]derekdownzCloud9 Fan 236 ポイント237 ポイント  (19子コメント)

TL:DW is that there are way too many leagues( or orgs, or brands) trying to get exclusivity or maximize profits by making shitty deals that it's going to implode sooner or later

[–]DoctorPenisEnvyCloud9 Fan 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (4子コメント)

PEA is bad. It's trying to knock ESL down a peg, but ESL is already giant. Both ESL and PEA are trying to be the biggest leagues. This is an impossibility without one of these acronyms going the way of the dodo.

It's going to cause a huge shitstorm, and like the title says, there's a war incoming.

[–]tinytankzzTeam Liquid Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You understand that PEA dwarves ESL and Wesa from a monetary stand point? The US scene has been drowning in money for years and it is one of the big things people point to when talking about US teams. That they don't try because they don't need to win tournaments to make money. It's WESA backlash and I kinda get it but, in the end the players suffer for owners to have a war.

[–]thedaemonthorRenegades Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

"Shit's wack, yo."

[–]flashpanther 787 ポイント788 ポイント  (55子コメント)

rofl how do you people not understand that TSM is in the right to be upset with a player who made no attempt to communicate with them and made the org look bad?

[–]lmpervious 113 ポイント114 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I'm out of the loop so I'm missing context, but I have to agree from what I have seen. I'm no fan of Regi (nor do I hate him) but it seems like he handled this reasonably... other than saying "your" instead of "you're" a few times.

And then Sean just blasting him publicly seems like he's trying to hurt TSM's image again, even if the first time wasn't intentional or Regi overreacted.

Regi didn't like how Sean didn't discuss anything with him when he was open for discussion, and then once he says he's not comfortable working with Sean anymore and wants to work out some way to part ways, Sean goes and blasts him publicly on social media, leaking all of this?

I really don't get it. If Regi was doing something morally reprehensible I could understand, but this just seems childish to me. If Sean doesn't like it that's fine, but that doesn't mean you have to burn bridges and try to hurt someone else when they seem to be acting reasonably. It looks like he's just trying to stir up drama and is clearly exaggerating why he was removed, which was in fact for his lack of communication when working as part of a brand.

If I'm missing some important details I'd love to hear it, but so far it just looks like an unreasonable knee jerk reaction from Sean, even though Regi isn't perfect in this scenario either.

[–]KyewCS 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is the letter that Sean signed. According to the letter, Regi and other owners got a letter on December 7th that expressed their concerns over the PEA. He and the owners were then contacted again on the 14th.

I'm going to wait until we have more of the pertinent information, but to me, at least, it seems as if this were not as sudden as Regi is claiming.

[–]Subpxl 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sean didn't even join the team until December 16th, which was after both dates you referenced. PEA bullshit aside (I'm with the players on that), Sean joining the organization, and within a week putting it on blast without ever communicating directly with it about the issue is really bad form. Regis then tries reaching out to him a few times to work things out and Sean essentially avoids him. I can see why it was in the best interest of both parties to part ways.

[–]AcousticFishbowlTeam Solomid Fan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My problem with this is that it seems like they never knew for sure the owners were hearing anything. It seems to me that they made the assumption that the owners were getting their messages through Jason, but it's certainly possible that he didn't pass them on. Seems it's been mostly Scoots and Jason talking about it, no way to know if the owners are hearing anything.

[–]TSM_DL 143 ポイント144 ポイント  (12子コメント)

No one actually went to read the link

[–]Turtlefast27Team SoloMid Fan 55 ポイント56 ポイント  (7子コメント)

That's what I think because there is no way you can read this conversation without thinking Regi is making the correct moves.

[–]Moonlitekilla 93 ポイント94 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Seriously. I would have been fired from my job had I done something on account of the company without talking it out first. Neither look good in this scenario but there is a clear reasoning for Regi's actions.

[–]Fish_In_Net 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not to mention not being available for a phonecall and when asked to call back always having an excuse that includes showers and "reset my brain".

I'd be fired too

[–]Grim_Pirate_x 897 ポイント898 ポイント  (85子コメント)

Regi has every right to remove him, not conversing with the org you represent before making such a decision? complete negligence and unprofessional. Every decision you make reflects on your org, whether it be appeal to sponsors, social media backlash etc. This isn't Reginald saying he doesn't agree with the players rights, its that he cant allow players in his org to go around him and make these big decisions.

[–]gEO-dA-K1nGTactics 534 ポイント535 ポイント  (42子コメント)

I agree with you and I feel like I'm taking crazy pills reading this thread.

The owner is clearly frustrated that the players didn't bother talking to him before publicly denouncing TSM playing in a league that he would've gladly pulled them out of (according to these texts).

[–]Grim_Pirate_x 288 ポイント289 ポイント  (21子コメント)

You hit the nail on the head, these kids don't understand how the real world works they just love their sean.

[–]dishayu 62 ポイント63 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yup, teenagers with no real working experience don't understand shit. I'm as big a fan of sean gares as the next guy, but he's being incredibly difficult to work with here.

Non-player TSM employees get their salaries out of the company image. The players shitting on TSM's public image are largely unaffected because a large chunk of their earnings come from prize money anyways.

[–]IGOTCOURIERPLZ 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This IS about leverage though.

With a union, the discussions about what leagues to join would involve the union. As it stands right now, it doesn't involve the players.

Seems fine to me that Sean signs the letter and says fuck you to the boss. It also seems fine to me that he gets terminated for it.

So as long as the union forms, this won't happen in the future as often.

[–]80888088 91 ポイント92 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I'm inclined to agree. Regi has definitely made some poor decisions in the past in LOL, which usually makes me somewhat leery of what comes out of his mouth, but he comes through as someone completely willing to have some open communication and Sean comes through as someone refusing to communicate because he thinks he is in some martyr worthy position for 'players rights'. Sorry for run on sentence.

TSM fanbois spamming my inbox: I haven't watched league since he first became an owner and apparently he's done well for himself since then. Pretty much what /u/jmc_da_boss said. I apologize, I didn't mean to make Regi come off as a bad guy, more so that any time an owner has something to say I take it with a grain of salt.

What I was getting at is that Regi is (WAS, seems the outrage has died down and people actually read everything) being crucified in this thread for no reason really, other than the fact that the CSGO audience (kids and young adults) love drama, and will side with their beloved streamers, who in their eyes can do no wrong. (eg steal & dazed). The thread yesterday reddit proclaims that owners must listen to reddit or face the wrath of their social media spam. Now that Regi has shown he takes his players opinions seriously reddit is crucifying him like gares is some sort of holy whistle-blower.

CSGO players and the CSGO community still rely way too much on social media outrage culture to get things done, rather than doing it the right way.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spfdes

Read Regi's response and his conversation with the other team members. It could just be that they are playing dumb, but it sounds like they are woefully and WILLFULLY uninformed. It would be nice if the community had some players that were willing to get deeply involved in making a difference rather than just adding their name to a letter they haven't even read.

[–]-PythoN-OpTic Gaming Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Out of curiosity, and speaking as someone who used to watch the LoL scene, which poor decisions are you referring to? The only one I can think of is the whole thing with Sven. Other than that he's been pretty good as a businessman.

[–]im_lime 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

as someone who still watches LoL, I don't think he knows what he's saying. You can dislike him as a player but as an owner he's top notch.

[–]TheCanadian666 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I think he might be referring to the times Regi would yell at and generally be abusive on camera to the other LoL players. This was back when he was still playing on the team and was juggling too many things at once (still no excuse for his behavior). Business-wise I can't think of any poor decisions he's made in League, and pretty much every bit of drama they've been involved in has been someone else trying to throw shade on the organization.

[–]CuckedByTRUMP 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Regi is regarded as top 2 LoL org owner by pretty much everyone? What are you talking about? I can't think of a single player that left the org because they didn't like TSM. It's always them missing home, performance, or attitude that causes them to leave. I've never heard a single person who left TSM in LoL trash them... ever...

[–]alpaca_dramaTeam SoloMid Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Xpecial left on a bad note. Just last split, Regi took him in so that he can find a new team. Doublelift is the face CLG, TSM long time rival. Takes him in his own house so that Wildturtle (plays the same position as Doublelift) can take his time to get ready. Dyrus said that he was going to burn bridges after retiring from TSM, ends up saying he didn't mean TSM at all and that he actually didn't have bridges to burn after realizing that Montecristo and Thorin were just doing their jobs

[–]joshfl95 191 ポイント192 ポイント  (9子コメント)

This is actually completely insane that people are defending Sean. This isn't just a game, this is peoples' brands and jobs. Everyone needs to be professional, which means talking to your boss about something you disagree on before publicly tarnishing his company. Wtf is with the people on this subreddit?

[–]vecter 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the correct answer. Unfortunately most of this subreddit is inhabited by people who don't understand how to properly do business.

[–]Forever0csgo 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ur right brother

I been rollin through this thread trying to make as many comments to show that some stupid witchhunt isnt needed on TSM where sean is at fault here.

Majority of these comments in this thread are just utter trash for "their" love for seangares.

[–]iplaywowlulTeam SoloMid Fan 50 ポイント51 ポイント  (9子コメント)

You're going to get downvoted for this, but you're right and hes right.

he's thinking as an owner and cutting him isn't the right thing, but I understand why.

He should just be pay cut for a month or two if anything.

[–]Grim_Pirate_x 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ethically yes he should just be slapped on the wrist but when you are dealing with multi million dollar companies things aren't that easy.

[–]TrahkrubCloud9 Fan 270 ポイント271 ポイント  (25子コメント)

To be honest I think Sean is in the wrong here. He pretty much admits to never talking to his owner before going behind his back. Andy seemed very reasonable and Sean looks like he's looking for drama here

[–]FriendlyMushroom5Team Liquid Fan 140 ポイント141 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Honestly after reading the entire chat log, I don't think Regi is in the wrong.

[–]CanadianGumdropTeam Solomid Fan 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Same fuck this reddit hive mind.

[–]Visualize_Team Liquid Fan 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well that's kinda ironic because the comments all say that Sean is wrong and regi is right

[–]CuckedByTRUMP 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same. Sean is playing the victim. Regi tried to work with him and his response is "so you are firing me because I care about players rights? I've been victimized."

[–]Kaiser-KhanFaZe Clan Fan 634 ポイント635 ポイント  (56子コメント)

JESUS CHRIST

THE WAR IS ON

[–]Drifter808Team Liquid Fan 241 ポイント242 ポイント  (40子コメント)

Grab the pitchforks, nobody hurts our Sean.

[–]darkinsisionTeam Liquid Fan 174 ポイント175 ポイント  (17子コメント)

ANGRY AT TSM? WANT TO JOIN THE MOB? I'VE GOT YOU COVERED!

COME ON DOWN TO /r/pitchforkemporium

I GOT 'EM ALL!

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* some assembly required

[–]mandarinfishy 66 ポイント67 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Seriously, talk about the worst player to fire.

[–]aslatts 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He didn't even really get fired... he basically quit. Regi said "Please call me OR I'm going to actively look for a replacement."

Regi is implying that some sort of trade/transfer/replacement could be mutually beneficial. Sean is the one who straight up says "I want out" and Regi agrees. I feel like people literally didn't read this.

[–]Flameknight81 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (6子コメント)

You think Shahzam will want out of TSM now since he probably wanted to go there partly because he was with Sean in the first place?

[–]ZenMengCloud9 Fan 238 ポイント239 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Regi seams like he is being reasonable while Sean is instigating him being cut and also posting this whole drama on twitter...

[–]aznbob 67 ポイント68 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He didnt get fired... He decided to leave

[–]CuckedByTRUMP 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. Sean is playing the victim.

[–]BeNobodyCloud9 Fan 59 ポイント60 ポイント  (5子コメント)

TIME FOR SOME OFFSEASON NA CS DRAMA

[–]catdog31 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Hey, I'm sorry I was in a deathmatch and wasn't looking at my phone.

[–]seeker287 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hey sorry can't talk right now not feeling good, need to take a shower to calm down.

Hey sorry girl is waiting and it's somewhat late I'm going to go sleep instead of calling you to solve the matter.

[–]OrdinaryMTeam Liquid Fan 83 ポイント84 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Feel like most people pissed off at TSM/Regi didn't even read the logs.

[–]asiimanGuardian Elite[S] 198 ポイント199 ポイント  (92子コメント)

ODEE (Dignitas CEO) on Twitter 10 min later:

"CS:GO people come talk to me we have a lot to offer!" https://twitter.com/dignitasODEE/status/812118600005914624

[–]JakobTheOneCloud9 G2A Fan 285 ポイント286 ポイント  (66子コメント)

Yeah, this guy isn't your savior.

http://imgur.com/a/BvU4J

Also, backstabbed the hell out of Scarra.

[–]jjmodNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 45 ポイント46 ポイント  (44子コメント)

LOL, why is it the all the orgs come off as greedy assholes

[–]noeffeks5 Year Subreddit Veteran 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Because there now there is blood in the water (money), and they are all scrambling to get a good foothold , so as esports continues to grow they are positioned with greater leverage to negotiate more favorable deals.

The strong get stronger, essentially.

[–]MikeTheAverageRedditOpTic Gaming Fan 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (34子コメント)

Can we even name 10 ORGs who haven't fucked over players?

NV
OpTic
Astralis
FaZe

Who else?

[–]topCyder 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not sure as to the CSGO side, but for league Echo Fox and Immortals are pretty good.

Heck, IMT just voided a contract that had just been signed so that Huni could play for SKT (which was his dream). They had literally just finished and signed him for 2 years, so by all means they could have kept him, but let him persue his dream. Made me tear up a bit.

Also, for Echo Fox, ya got RIIIIICK FOOOOOOX

[–]Letzor 303 ポイント304 ポイント  (20子コメント)

Gares playing the victim card. For poeple who understand PR i fully understand Regi. How could they go public and putting TSM name out there, WITHOUT talking to the owner first? makes no sense

[–]oliveeeeeer 86 ポイント87 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Exactly. Players rights are hugely important but to just bypass talking to Regi altogether seems like a massive betrayal of trust, and just a kind of stupid thing to do.

[–]floatingcats 341 ポイント342 ポイント  (28子コメント)

u n i o n

[–]Takeabyte 33 ポイント34 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I mean, isn't the point of an open letter like that, with all the players from all the teams signing it, to stand together as a group and leave if there's retaliation against anyone? That's the conversation I'd start to have.

[–]HastamaGambit Gaming Fan 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Seriously. It's time for some better united representation for players.

[–]ethan9999GODSENT Fan 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They problem is that they (the players) should have done this ages ago but they didn't. If they did make some type of player Union earlier instead of a skype group maybe something like this wouldn't have happened.

[–]Appledore21 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (2子コメント)

As much as I love shitting on teams, I feel like Regi comes off as perfectly reasonable here.

[–]pujolsrox11Team Solomid Fan 154 ポイント155 ポイント  (23子コメント)

Jesus People ITT dont understand that if you speak out against something you are representing not only you but also the people you work for. Have any of you ever worked for a corporation before? If Sean was really smart he would have consulted his boss before speaking out. I side with TSM on this one.

[–]demoCREEPS 53 ポイント54 ポイント  (3子コメント)

I agree, this shit would not fly in the real work place.

[–]pujolsrox11Team Solomid Fan 38 ポイント39 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The players want to be treated as real employees, now apparently its outrageous that they are being treated as real employees. Its almost like the kids on this sub have never had a job before... Looking at some of these comments, I think its safe to assume that.

[–]mmcleod24 82 ポイント83 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Am I missing something? Isn't Sean the first one to bring up not being comfortable playing with TSM? It sounded like Reginald was upset about not being informed, wanted to discuss it, then Sean said he wasn't comfortable being on the team and wanting to part ways. Misleading title or was something changed/deleted?

[–]Big_Stick01Team Liquid Fan 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reginald definitely implied that parting ways was on his mind, but ultimately yes; it was Sean who basically said outright " I'm not comfortable lets separate"

[–]Beepboopmadafaka 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Nope, misleading title and people don't actually read the material.. instead they hop on the hate orgs train without having their own thoughts/opinions

[–]dogenoob1 162 ポイント163 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I have no sympathy for seangares here, reginald seems reasonable with his decision. At the end of the day you're an employee, unless you wanna start your own org.

Also how are some of these teams going against PEA's decision? I honestly thought they would go with it, considering PEA shares 50% profits, offers salaries and a shit ton of benefits. If anything that sounds like next best thing for esports, do they not know what PEA offers? or are they just bandwagoning other players? Like wasn't there a meme where hazed was in a picture with PEA and had no idea what was going on?

EDIT : I honestly find it crazy that these players would turn down that much money, which is why i think some of these guys are misinformed. I get that ESEA has been ingrained in NA for a long time and has the best anti cheat client (even though it can be bypassed these days) but I can't see it being worth fighting for with the amount of stuff that is offered by PEA especially by these teams that are protesting.

[–]BadAstronaut19 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

they are upset that they have no say in the decision making, not necessarily the league and it's exclusivity. The players have every right to better representation in these decisions. The players are employed to play counter strike, not play in only the tournaments that their orgs allow them to without any say from the players. That sets a dangerous precedent.

[–]DopeDudeDustinNinjas in Pyjamas Fan 81 ポイント82 ポイント  (6子コメント)

jesus nothing is private in this world have an imporatant convo then instantly upload it to social media

no biasm

[–]SpooderLord69 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Might as well talk on a reddit thread if one of you doesn't have the respect or decency to keep a "Private Convorsation" "Private".

[–]rickinyorkshire 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (5子コメント)

So no one spoke to TSM management about this at all? He has a point then surely?

[–]havocrequiemTSM Kinguin Fan 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He was not fired? Sean clearly stated he was uncomfortable with the org after his conversation with Regi. Regi said he would look for a replacement only if he had not heard back from Sean..

[–]sponlox 21 ポイント22 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Andy sounds like he's in the right

Why didn't sean talk to him?

[–]T_L 57 ポイント58 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Logically, Regi is being reasonable here. I don't understand why people are defending Sean so hard.

[–]walawoo 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Is everyone just triggered because of the title? Did no one bother to read the actual text? It seems to me like Sean willingly quit instead of agreeing to compromise with Regi through a phone call. Which is also the reason why he landed in hot water in the first place, because he never bothered to talk to his own brand's CEO before signing the brand name onto a petition. He was NOT "fired" because he was in connection to the playersrights letter, as Regi explicitly states in one of the texts. This tweet is just the author playing victim when he was the one who willingly quit his own job and called it getting fired.

[–]WildVarietyTeam Liquid Fan 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (1子コメント)

He doesn't feel safe on TSM? What the fuck bullshit is that.

[–]Dnomes 26 ポイント27 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Freedom of speech = / = freedom of consequences.

But hey, damaging another person's reputation and livelihood is fine, as long as you are a loved player on this subreddit.

I am not claiming the player letter is wrong - but the message of the letter is directly contradicting these messages Sean posted. He did not even deny, that he didn't try to contact Reginald regarding the letter. So he joins TSM recently, puts his newly acquired brand on a huge political issue in the CS:GO community, and expects to get out scotfree?

[–]AndyFNGmousesports Fan 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know we all love Sean here and alot of us aren't the greatest fans of TSM but reading this I feel like he got cut because he of no communication, and that he took actions without communication with the organization that is paying his salary when it could've also been handled internally. Sean is wording it a way that he got cut for simply standing up for player rights. That's not what I see is happening at all.

[–]Walter_KurtzTeam Liquid Fan 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Week 1: "There are too many tournaments every week, which makes otherwise exciting matches regular and boring... The scene is too saturated!" - Reddit

Week 2: "WHAT!? Teams are being held to exclusive leagues and cannot choose to play in every single tournament every other weekend!?? #PlayersRights" - Reddit

Week 3: "Holy crap, all of these tournaments are so damn frequent, its making the CSGO scene boring. There needs to be a unified and single league to prevent this..." - Reddit

Week 4: "These teams/leagues are MONSTERS! How dare they try and control our precious players!??" - Reddit

Week 5: Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

[–]Thrillar_villar 163 ポイント164 ポイント  (18子コメント)

RICHARD LEWIS WAS RIGHT. THE COLD WAR HAS BEGUN. #DICKSOUTFORSE@N

[–]V1ROSAstana Dragons Fan 56 ポイント57 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Had Sean talked to Andy first then this wouldn't be happening :/

[–]chrisrain 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ya I feel like Andy and TSM are catching way too much flak for this.

[–]MilkMySpermCannon 40 ポイント41 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm biased towards players, because I was a pro gamer back in the days when you literally weren't paid anything. My team got a $100 a month "salary" and we were just happy to be getting paid to play games.

However, if this is true it's actually really fucked up from Sean's end. These players are fighting for their so-called rights, yet it seems they didn't even try consulting the owners of their teams prior. It's like you are revolting against nothing. Sean didn't even know if there was a resistance to fight against since he went into the letter with his team owners in the dark. Then on top of it exposes what regi thought would be a private conversation. If something like this happened in the corporate world you would be blacklisted from the industry.

I'm probably explaining this poorly, but this could have been completely avoided if some of these players didn't jump the gun so quickly. Let's say I decided to come together with all my work colleagues and go on strike because we got mandatory overtime without saying a word to our boss. Then after we go on strike our boss is like "I wouldn't have followed through with the overtime if I knew you felt this way." And then I deservedly lose my job for being an asshole when it would have been entirely avoided with a simple conversation.

[–]SirBiffles 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (1子コメント)

As much as it is fucked up that Sean is having his contract terminated, it only seems right that he should've informed Regi of his decisions regarding the team. That's just me though, all this drama man :/

[–]23Gazorpazorp 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

wasnt regi totally fair to him? i mean, he offered to completely drop PEA and expected to have a talk before publishing that letter. also releasing the texts doesnt seem like a good idea.

[–]MZMRZFnatic Fanatic 23 ポイント24 ポイント  (4子コメント)

RIP new roster lmfao

[–]deepriBUYPOWER Fan 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

i dont think Regi is gonna want anything to do with csgo with this

[–]sizzlepants-Mirage Veteran 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Wow! Publicly posting a private discussion between you and your boss? That is a horrible move, personally and professionally.

GG RIP SeanGares career.

[–]Gambit2299Team SoloMid Fan 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (2子コメント)

why the fuck are people saying this dude from TSM fucked up.. He seems to being acting perfectly reasonable and is just trying to encourage an open flow of communication between the players and the organization.. Please enlighten me why so many people are saying that he's fucking his image more than ever here.. I feel like sean is the one that is fuckin up.

[–]ewakr 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He represented his team without asking for permission, if you ever had a job. Please don't try this shit.

[–]vecter 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're correct. This sub is ruled by immature kids

[–]troop357SK Gaming Fan 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So Reginald signed with PEA without talking to the players. Sean signed the open letter without talking to Reginald.

Sooo both sides are kinda wrong?

[–]pzoDe 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm kinda on the fence here. Whilst I am very much against PEA and exclusivity and would 100% be on seangares side in any other situation, I don't know why he didn't speak to Regi first. If he had, and then Regi had said no, then he's 100% in the right. But given those screenshots, it seems like sgares jumped the gun a bit and didn't even bother to ask his team owner. I really want to be on sgares side here for the sake of collapsing PEA, but this doesn't seem fair on TSM's owner.

[–]_AdministratorOffice Veteran 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Lack of communication is the root of all problems. Everywhere.

[–]guy_from_sweden [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Lots of people taking Regi's side here, except for those who have the insider info (the actual pros).

Sean responded to Regi. Turns out they DID talk before about this in private. So Regi knew and henceforth lied when telling Sean there was no communication.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1spfdng

[–]someroastedbeef 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (4子コメント)

am i going fucking crazy or something why is everyone defending sean like he acted in the right

he's basically an employee, fucking act like one. anyone who's ever worked in a professional environment knows that there is always someone above you that you must consult and seek permision before you do something major, especially a public statement. you don't go behind your boss's back and then when he asks to discuss it reasonably, try and play the victim card and then pathetically put the entire convo out there out of spite. this is extremely childish and i'm kinda disappointed out that everyone's jumping on his side.

he may be advocating for a noble cause but the disrespect is so real it's angering

[–]polio23 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am all about trashing Regi and have been for years but this confuses me.

Sean says the folloiwng "I'm sorry you feel that way. At this point I don't feel safe or comfortable on your org. I agree that it might be best for us to part ways"

That doesn't sound like a firing to me. Not only that but if it is true the players never even talked to Regi about that seems like a pretty big deal. Edit1. Not only this but Regi even says he won't require a buyout fee or him to be traded. I can definitely understand how he has an owner has to protect his brand and how this looks really bad for it.

Definitely support player rights and what not but just confused on this specific instance as it seems if the team had talked to Regi and TSM being the huge brand they are pulled out of PEA that would have done immense damage to they PEA before it even got off the ground and solve a lot of this.

[–]Lost_LionOpTic Gaming Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

In an attempt to make TSM look shitty and put the 'poor players' up on a pedestal, this chain of messages has completely backfired.

All I'm seeing is Sean being a bit of drama queen, and Andy openly agreeing to drop PEA in a moment's notice had he only been informed.

Forecast calls for heavy downvoteage, but I'll be damned if this didn't make me think twice about the whole situation now.

[–]banjoskipLondon Conspiracy Fan 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm all for player rights, but from what I can tell no one talked to regi about this. If they talked to him and he said fuck off I'd be more than willing to jump on the bandwagon but I'm having some hesitations now.

[–]higginsburrito 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fired? He was the one who resigned, even if he said he was uncomfortable.

[–]daznai 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (14子コメント)

Yeah I don't think the rest of the roster will be on TSM for too long either after this.

[–]FrankieMoneyCloud9 Fan 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

REAL BLOODY WAR

[–]StevenWongoCloud9 Fan 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Both parties I think are in the wrong in one way or another. Sean and team should have consulted Regi before going forward with the letter. This is a given in almost anywhere you work, or any team environment especially in sports. If nothing concludes from it, then go public.

As for Regi releasing Sean. Understandable with the circumstances, but with Sean releasing the conversation for everyone to see might not be the smartest thing to do. You could say Regi is hurting TSM's brand, but Sean is equally as well with releasing these conversations.

From how I see it, if you're under a company, you represent them. If you do not agree with something, you bring up the issue at hand with your boss first. Nothing comes from that, then you move forward with public statement if the issue is still pressing.

[–]avo8 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Valid. I really don't see regi in the wrong.

He wasn't disrespectful whatsoever and has a valid reason for his actions. Even when he brought up releasing him near the end of the screenshots. I had a vibe of Sean had the intentions already of screenshotting all of this. He instantly tried to play the victim card by saying "you're firing me because I stood up for players" assuming he wanted to make something out of this.