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Marxist-Leninists aren't my comrades (self.Anarchism)

SocialistNewZealand が 投稿

Mao Zedong did not care about his own people:

If we were to add up all the landlords, rich peasants, counterrevolutionaries, bad elements and rightists, their number would reach thirty million... Of our total population of six hundred million people, these thirty million are only one out of twenty. So what is there to be afraid of? ... We have so many people. We can afford to lose a few. What difference does it make? When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill. Look at World War II, at Hitler’s cruelty. The more cruelty, the more enthusiasm for revolution.

-Mao Zedong.

If you support Stalin or Mao, you are not my comrade.

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[–]ComradeZiggy 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (8子コメント)

Source of this quote? Google returns this post and some anti-communist sites full of fake quotes.

[–]agentnolaviolently burn everything 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Heres what I found

[–]gamegyro56 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If we were to add up all the landlords, rich peasants, counterrevolutionaries, bad elements and rightists, their number would reach thirty million... Of our total population of six hundred million people, these thirty million are only one out of twenty. So what is there to be afraid of?

Zhi-Sui, Li. The private life of Chairman Mao. Random House, 2011, p. 217

When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill.

Dikötter, Frank. Mao's Great Famine: The History of China's Most Devastating Catastrophe, 1958-1962. Bloomsbury Publishing USA, 2010, p. 134
Original: Speech on 25 March 1959, Gansu, 19-18-494, p. 48
Maoist Response

Look at World War II, at Hitler’s cruelty. The more cruelty, the more enthusiasm for revolution.

New York Times, August 31, 1990, A2. Original from an unknown booklet published by the People's Liberation Army.

[–]S0ny666 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So this is three totally different speeches, and one is from the memoirs of someone who clearly doesn't like Mao and/or his policies?

That's called a misquote.

[–]gamegyro56 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's a misquote in that it's 3 sources presented as one. But I don't see how the 3 individually are misquotes.

[–]S0ny666 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

So, pretty much a misquote. I couldn't even find what page this part of the quote i suppossed to be on:

When there is not enough to eat, people starve to death. It is better to let half of the people die so that the other half can eat their fill. Look at World War II, at Hitler’s cruelty. The more cruelty, the more enthusiasm for revolution.

[–]Comrade_RedArmy 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good job comrade! Also I love the fact that anytime someone calls out MLs I see communist flairs on the thread. #Solidarity

[–]analienablerightProtracted Peoples' Permanent Revolution In One Country 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

duckduckgo returns "12 Graphs That Show Why People Get Fat"

[–]Corusmaximus 15 ポイント16 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pretty sure this quote is fake.

[–]noisewitch2 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If we're not being brigaded by rightcomms currently, then anarchists are a lot less aware of the nature of power than I thought.

[–]herr_roggTeenager 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Totally agree. My ideology is as far from Marxism-Maoism as it is from anarcho capitalism.

And ancaps are most certainly not my comrades.

[–]Loves_His_Bong 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

I disagree with marxist-leninists but Maoists just kind of scare me to be honest. Both are just revisionist at large though.

[–]EconOverlordMaoist Third-Worldist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

revisionist

Looks at camera like I'm in The Office

[–]0TOYOT0 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Third worldist

Whyyyyyy?

[–]Faolinbeankilljoy 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (16子コメント)

What is this shit? The left isn't sectarian enough for you?

You've way oversimplified something complicated and used it to disqualify a large number of potential comrades. We have enough problems fighting non-leftists.

edit: and where's this quote from? I can't find it anywhere not on an anti-communist site

[–]Pleasant_weather 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Sure, until they come for us. MLM's are by definition authoritarian, and history has shown that "communist" authority will not hesitate to attack anarchists.

[–]ibacfkjbweb 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Sure, until they come for us.

You're delusional. We should be so lucky to be rebels under a Communist regime. But seriously, till they come for us? I don't know if you're watching the news but capitalism has won, we don't have to worry about another Stalinist regime. Our only enemy should be capitalism.

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not working together with a bunch of tankies just to watch them co-opt the revolution and throw my comrades and I in a gulag right after, sorry.

[–]MeadofUoden -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

history has shown

Yup, that's exactly it, HISTORY. You hate MLMs for things that happened before my Grandfather was born, 60 years before MLM was even theorised. You ask virtually any MLM, atleast on reddit, today, they will say they see Anarchists as Comrades.

[–]SolidBlues 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Just ask any MLM what they think of the repression of anarchists and the working class in all examples of "actually existing socialism." If they don't outright say that murdering anarchists and workers was a good thing, they'll give some shit about "material conditions" making it "necessary" to murder anarchists and workers.

[–]redditsuxass 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You ask virtually any MLM, atleast on reddit, today, they will say they see Anarchists as Comrades.

That's funny. I usually hear them calling anarchists "liberals," not comrades.

EDIT: For example.

[–]originalpoopinbutt 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You ask virtually any MLM, atleast on reddit, today, they will say they see Anarchists as Comrades.

Have you been on tumblr? They all make jokes about why it's a good thing to gulag anarchists.

[–]MeadofUoden 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (1子コメント)

atleast on reddit

[–]originalpoopinbutt 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I can't imagine they behave significantly different on other platforms. Why would they?

[–]Neo-man 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I care more about anarchism then the vague concept of a "left".

Marxists Leninists are glorified social democrats .

Also sectarianism is not criticism.

[–]Voidkom 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Marxist-leninists aren't comrades just like cops aren't workers.

[–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Left unity and "anti-sectarianism" is a joke. We should always be criticising others and self-reflecting in times like this.

[–]aenemic 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (1子コメント)

eft unity and "anti-sectarianism" is a joke. We should always be criticising others and self-reflecting in times like this.

I don't know about you, but the socratic method has generally given me better results at getting people to self reflect than NOT MY COMRADE circlejerking I see mostly.

[–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's hard to self-reflect and criticise with all these people yelling "not my comrade" in the background.

[–]aenemic 19 ポイント20 ポイント  (46子コメント)

I like how you make it seem that anyone who might identify as ML thinks exactly the same as Mao or Lenin on every subject.

Seriously, the sectarianism here is just absolutely mind boggling at times.

"We got fucked in the Spanish Civil War, so anyone who is an ML will automatically do the same to us in a hypothetical future revolution"

We don't need 4chan to infiltrate and create discord, we'll just keep hating eachother for shit we had nothing to do with.

[–]drewtheoverlord 24 ポイント25 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not that we got fucked once. It's every damn time and it will be every time because of the nature of the state.

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (15子コメント)

History clearly shows that Marxist-Leninist praxis is rotten to the core, and yet there are many on the modern "left" who justify (if not straight up deny) the socialist atrocities of the past. It's like y'all are a bunch of roleplayers dead-set on reenacting 1917 – hence why you aren't my "comrades."

[–]WhoWouldHaveThunk1 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Ive literally seen leftist claim holdomor is a nazi myth like wtf

[–]JackieVakarian-Maoist -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

We don't say it was a Nazi myth, just that it was Nazi propaganda. We don't deny that it happened. We're just saying it wasn't entirely the fault of the Soviets and it was 70 percent environmental conditions and 30 percent mismanagement and human error, given that Russia experienced droughts and famines regularly every few years, and the Nazis fucking saw this and blamed the Soviets for it to make them look bad, even though the Soviets did what they could to lessen the famine and make sure not 10 million people died and even shipped out less grain to other countries to mitigate the famine. We don't know how many died for sure, but it was likely a few hundred thousand and not 50 million like everyone says.

Git mad at facts.

You anarchists don't do your fucking research and just call yourselves anarchists have reading quotes from goddamn facebook pages.

[–]WhoWouldHaveThunk1 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So that's why soviets totally didnt try to cover it up right? And why a majority of historians agree that it was directly perpetrated by stalins cabinet?

Keep up the rose tinted glasses but know it marks you as an enemy.

[–]Neo-man 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are massively full of shit

[–]aenemic 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I'm not a marxist-leninist. But I know several who are closer to that than anarchism, and they don't agree or apologize for their crimes.

And history isnt always a valid template on the future.

[–]noisewitch2 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (6子コメント)

yeah, they don't now. Once they consolidate power and want to keep it, guess what happens.

It doesn't matter what individual MLs think or feel. Their system results in oppression.

[–]aenemic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (5子コメント)

w. Once they consolidate power and wa

Wouldnt that make it that much more important to convert the heathens before that can happen?

Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see Tankies take power anywhere.

[–]noisewitch2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (4子コメント)

um, depends on what you mean by important. I'm a defeated, broken human and I have no hope for anything. The only reason I don't kill myself is I have an intense fear of pain and death. So while I agree that it is, in some abstract way, important to change people's minds, in a more concrete way, I only care about good tasting food, weed, and sex.

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

me too thanks

[–]aenemic 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Sorry to hear that companer@ - I wasnt trying to have a go at you, just so thats said btw!

[–]noisewitch2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yeah, thanks! I didn't think you were coming at me.

[–]Neo-man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

me too thanks

[–]noisewitch2 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (28子コメント)

I don't need any of that history to hate MLs. I hate authoritarians. Never, ever, ever, fucking ever try to tell me what to do.

[–]aenemic -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (24子コメント)

Some zesty edge there. Do you think it is remotely a possibility that people might change their political opinions on things? And if so, do you think the "I HATE YOU YOU AUTHORITARIAN BASTARD" is the best way to get them to change?

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't have the patience to change people. Doing so isn't my responsibility, anyway. I guess I'll just try to avoid getting gulaged when MLs inevitably co-opt another proletarian revolution and fuck everything up again.

[–]aenemic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Not changing peoples minds.

Complaining about MLs coopting.

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

this is the same bad logic as "didn't vote, complaining about who got elected" tbh

[–]aenemic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Is it really though?

If Person A sits on the sidelines not willing to talk and try to convince Person C of something, whereas Person B is willing to do this.

Would you really be surprised if Person B coopts Person C from you?

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

it's more person B's fault for being a tankie asshole imo

[–]aenemic 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Alright, so by your ideas, what would be the way to make a positive difference then?

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why should I care about making a positive difference for anyone other than myself and my close friends? I owe society nothing.

[–]noisewitch2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (16子コメント)

I don't care about any of this. I don't care about changing people.

Edit: alright, sorry, I get heated.

Yes, I do think people change. I'm much more open to discussion in meat space. Reddit exists so that I can pour all of my rage and frustration into it without upsetting my friends and creating drama. You're my hate bucket, and I fucking HATE the authoritarian "left".

[–]aenemic 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (15子コメント)

I'm glad I didnt reply until you edited.

Isnt revolution all(mostly) about changing peoples minds, the alternative is what? Killing or jailing those who disagree? And wouldnt that thus make us authoritarians in turn?

And I get the real world/internet land thing, but I think we also need to accept that the online realm is an important place for recruitment and debate these days.

[–]noisewitch2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

yes, its about changing peoples minds, but to be real with you, I have no hope whatsoever placed in revolution.

you should feel the physical sensations that run through my body when I think about ML's and their authoritarian tactics. it feels like my heart might burst out of my chest.

there are no words for how much I hate being controlled, managed, told what to do and how to think.

[–]dessalines_ 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have no hope whatsoever placed in revolution.

So you refuse to do anything to challenge the capitalist status quo?

[–]noisewitch2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

is this the part where you harass and abuse me for having severe depression? go away.

[–]dessalines_ 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think you responded to the wrong comment, I never mentioned depression.

[–]noisewitch2 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

sorry. when i mention i have no hope, people always jump down my throat and act like i'm a counterrevolutionary. It angers me because their first thought should be, "this person probably has severe depression", not, "time to pwn this reactionary asshole!"

Edit: I fucking love that there are people cold enough to downvote someone talking about their mental health issues. Its the same disgusting control freaks who pretend to give a shit about ableism too, I'd bet money.

[–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

What do you mean you have severe depression? Political involvement is your obligation to humanity! /s

[–]noisewitch2 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thank you for correcting me! I will try harder to believe in The Party!

[–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]Ninothehuman 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Egoists seem very fond of dropping this slick one-liner all over the place. For some reason I miss all the comments where you offer your alternative, though. Could you outline this for me, please?

    P.S. please don't just send me a link, we both know I won't click it, let alone read it.

    [–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Go out and live your life. Free yourself from as much oppression as possible without becoming a slave to "the left."

    [–]Ninothehuman 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Sounds like lifestylism, but I'm guessing you see it differently..?

    [–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    It is lifestylism. Why waste your time pouring effort into "the left" when you have no guarantee of return?

    [–]aenemic 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    it's all a spook

    [–]SocialistNewZealand[S] 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Fuck Marxist-Leninists. I'd take liberals over them.

    [–]dessalines_ 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    When you start telling the bourgeoisie what to do, and they start claiming you're an authoritarian, will you stop?

    [–]noisewitch2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    lol yeah, because an anarchist revolution is the same thing as your gulag and re-education camp nightmare world.

    [–]Oheao 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    What's going on in the comments? I don't understand why there are so many Leninist sympathizers in an anarchist Subreddit.

    [–]WhoWouldHaveThunk1 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    its what happens when you get your anarchism purely from all those crappy facebook debate groups and dont have a real stake in being an anti-authoritarian.

    Its a shame so many people want to apologize for historically failed movements and ideologies that regularly defend dictators and mass murderers

    [–]JackieVakarian-Maoist 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You are obviously talking Hitler and Benito Mussolini and Pinochet, since it is fucking rich for Anarchists to call anything else a failure.

    [–]WhoWouldHaveThunk1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    leftist have all failed, better? it's more inclusive, just like yr historical mass murdering ;)

    [–]noisewitch2 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Here's a verifiable quote from Mao that tells you all you need to know about this creepy scumbag.

    'Not to obey orders but to give pride of place to one's own opinions. To demand special consideration from the organization but to reject its discipline" - on liberals

    anyone who isn't immediately disgusted by this sentiment is a spineless worm who doesn't deserve this precious life.

    [–]SolidBlues 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    You haven't yet earned the right to think for yourself comrade. Now get back in line and do what the Party tells you. /s

    [–]JackieVakarian-Maoist -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What is so fucking disgusting about this? Maybe I'm not understanding this correctly but it seems fine to me.

    Lol. Nice assertive claim, douchebag.

    [–]noisewitch2 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    he's saying that not obeying orders and rejecting discipline is a bad thing.

    [–]Vindalfr 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sourcing that quote would be great.

    Tankies Suck!l

    [–]Gamma_Ram 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I'm an anarchist, but there's things to be learned from MLM revolutionary praxis, for sure. Mao advocated us going into the poorest communities, seeing what their lives were like, and helping them learn leftist ideology to rise up. Trotsky was right about global revolution being necessary. They can't just be written off completely, just because they are authoritarian

    [–]noisewitch2 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I didn't need to read either of those people, or any other thinker, to know that.

    [–]JackieVakarian-Maoist -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Oh yeah, we're so authoritarian. We want people to work together and have a state that oppress the bourgeoisie. Oh my. We're just like Hitler.

    [–]noisewitch2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    fuck those right wing control freak super liberals.

    [–]analienablerightProtracted Peoples' Permanent Revolution In One Country -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    agreed

    [–]noisewitch2 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    lol they're so authoritarian that they can help but brigade and attempt to silence criticism. pathetic.

    [–]SocialistNewZealand[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Haha who the fuck linked this to a tanky subreddit. 58% upvoted for calling out authoritarian bastards on an anarchist sub.

    [–]freedom_flower/ POC / crypto 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    tankies ain't my comrades.

    [–]Comrade_RedArmy 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    Strength in numbers. Left unity.

    [–]gnuworldorder 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Left unity is a meme

    [–]Futakitty: Egoist on Estradiol 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    That's pretty spooky.

    [–]giveviolenceachanceindividualist | white genocide worldwide 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    "the left" itself is a spook

    [–]Futakitty: Egoist on Estradiol 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes, and a pretty scary one.

    [–]noisewitch2 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    don't know what that has to do with a bunch of right wingers like MLs

    [–]drewtheoverlord 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That would imply Leninists are left.

    [–]Klupaanarchist communist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The left is completely insignificant politically, the idea that we haven't had global communist revolution because the dozens of anarchists that exist aren't nicer to the ten MLs that remain is the most narcissistic thing I've ever heard.

    Healthy criticism of historically disastrous strategies isn't "sectarianism," it's part of what we need at this moment.

    [–]Neo-man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Big in numbers , small in brains

    [–]MeadofUoden 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (12子コメント)

    If we were to add up all the landlords, rich peasants, counterrevolutionaries, bad elements and rightists, their number would reach thirty million

    Well, first of all, fuck those people he listed. Are you really defending the exploiting classes? Secondly, he didn't even kill them all, he killed those who took arms against the Republic. Most people went to rehabilitation/prisons to be educated on the bad things that they do. Finally, M-L-M's see Mao as fallible, and therefore, they do criticise him, so you cannot offer a criticism of Mao and use it to target M-L-Ms.

    [–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Mao crushed the ultra-left and left communist presence in China during the Civil War. The left communists and ultra-leftists, along with the anarchists, were the closest to the "masses" at the time, yet they were crushed. Mao was no friend of the real movement.

    [–]MeadofUoden 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Mao crushed the ultra-left and left communist presence in China during the Civil War.

    That would be hard, considering I can't find a source suggesting that such a faction has ever existed.

    The CPC crushed the communists who were closest to the "masses" at the time.

    Sorry, are you suggesting that LeftComs were closest to the masses?

    Let's not forget the anarchists that were slaughtered as well.

    The fuck are you talking about? The Anarchist movement has been suppressed, yes, and I disagree with that, but there was never any great slaughter.

    [–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (8子コメント)

    That would be hard, considering I can't find a source suggesting that such a faction has ever existed.

    You're not searching hard enough.

    Sorry, are you suggesting that LeftComs were closest to the masses?

    Yes, just like they were in the Russian Revolution before they were all purged. It's also interesting to add that there was a heavy left communist presence within the Shanghai Commune. Even during the Cultural Revolution the Chinese left communists were closer to the masses than Mao's bureaucracy. I'd suggest doing some reading on it, because it's pretty interesting.

    The fuck are you talking about? The Anarchist movement has been suppressed, yes, and I disagree with that, but there was never any great slaughter.

    Suppressed is just a nice way of saying slaughtered.

    [–]MeadofUoden 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

    You're not searching hard enough.

    Well, care to provide a source?

    just like they were in the Russian Revolution before they were all purged.

    Left Communism in Russia opposed a peace treaty with the Germans-- The anti-war policy of the Bolsheviks were the main reason they had popular support; they were the largest faction that wanted peace. By opposing peace, as the LeftComs did, they were rejecting the will of the masses.

    there was a heavy left communist presence within the Shanghai Commune.

    I agree with this assessment, and I would like too add that after the Shanghai Commune and the end of the GPCR, Mao began his descent to the Right, so I won't defend his actions past this point.

    Suppressed is just a nice way of saying slaughtered.

    Again, Anarchists were rarely killed, mostly just arrested, and as I've said I disagree with this.

    [–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Well, care to provide a source?

    I'd suggest looking up stuff about the Shanghai Commune. Also, finding a direct source is hard, due to most of them being Chinese. However, I've found some interesting stuff on the Wikipedia page which may be of interest to you. Beware, because Wikipedia can be a bit iffy at times.

    Left Communism in Russia opposed a peace treaty with the Germans-- The anti-war policy of the Bolsheviks were the main reason they had popular support; they were the largest faction that wanted peace. By opposing peace, as the LeftComs did, they were rejecting the will of the masses.

    Their opposition to the treaty was not the reason why they were purged. They were purged because they spoke out against the counter-revolutionary and nationalistic turn the Bolsheviks took.

    The Bolsheviks were right about the treaty.

    I agree with this assessment, and I would like too add that after the Shanghai Commune and the end of the GPCR, Mao began his descent to the Right, so I won't defend his actions past this point.

    I was actually surprised when I first read about it. The Chinese left communists felt like the Cultural Revolution needed to end with the workers overthrowing the CPC and establishing direct control, whilst linking up with world communist movements in the hope of world revolution.

    Again, Anarchists were rarely killed, mostly just arrested, and as I've said I disagree with this.

    I don't understand. The way that a lot of Marxist-Leninists and Marxist-Leninist-Maoists talk about anarchist, it seems that they would agree with this.

    [–]MeadofUoden -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    I'd suggest looking up stuff about the Shanghai Commune.

    We were talking about the Civil War. I'm aware of the later Left Coms.

    Their opposition to the treaty was not the reason why they were purged.

    Whataboutism. We were talking about them being closest to the masses.

    The Bolsheviks were right about the treaty.

    Which is precisely why they were closest to the masses.

    I was actually surprised when I first read about it. The Chinese left communists felt like the Cultural Revolution needed to end with the workers overthrowing the CPC and establishing direct control, whilst linking up with world communist movements in the hope of world revolution.

    I'm an M-L-M and I would probably agree with that.

    The way that a lot of Marxist-Leninists and Marxist-Leninist-Maoists talk about anarchist, it seems that they would agree with this.

    I'm not 'a lot' of Marxist-Leninists & Marxist-Leninist-Maoists. I am one. Also, from our end, the Anarchist appear to be the ones firing the sectarian shots against ML(M)s, history aside, for example, see this post.

    [–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    We were talking about the Civil War. I'm aware of the later Left Coms.

    The Shanghai Commune was before and during the Civil War.

    Whataboutism. We were talking about them being closest to the masses.

    I thought you were saying they were purged because they opposed the treaty.

    The left communists were indistinguishable from the Bolsheviks up until the Bolsheviks took the counter-revolutionary and nationalist turn. Before they emerged against Lenin they participated in the revolution. They were Bolsheviks.

    I'm not 'a lot' of Marxist-Leninists & Marxist-Leninist-Maoists. I am one. Also, from our end, the Anarchist appear to be the ones firing the sectarian shots against ML(M)s, history aside, for example, see this post.

    Criticising MLMs and MLs is not the same as sectarianism.

    [–]MeadofUoden -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (3子コメント)

    The Shanghai Commune

    Wikipedia says it was established in 1967

    Criticising MLMs and MLs is not the same as sectarianism.

    No one says it was. This post, and most comments here, are rejecting M-L-M as leftist, which is a lot more than criticism.

    [–]TheDirtyKangarooleft communism 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

    There was another commune that existed in 1927.

    [–]Pleasant_weather 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    They're critisizing Mao directly, and saying "if you support him, you're not my ally." Not MLMs, directly. And oh, re-education prisons are so much better. What a benevolent master, thank goodness they put him at the helm. Nothing says abolition of class like a corrupt party of authoritarians.

    [–]situationist_prankArmy of National Liberation 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Stalinists are Fascists in a red disguise.

    [–]analienablerightProtracted Peoples' Permanent Revolution In One Country -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    "'A lie told often enough becomes the truth.' -Stalin, Hitler, Lenin, Goebbels, Mao and probably hundreds more"

    -Benjamin Franklin

    [–]Grenjabob -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Beautiful fake quote.

    [–]Faggot_Fredrikson 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I know some Maoists, and while our dogmas disagree on many points, I still find the said Maoists as easy to converse with in respectful spirits, and I feel that this kind of open-to-discourse comradeship is the only way to let ideas propagate outside of my 100%-agreeing-anarchist bubble; I see this kind of "pre-emptive comradeship" as the only hope to ever reach a consensus with these people; I pre-emptively call them comrades, trusting that as we live and grow together, we can one day find out that co-growth has brought us to a consensus.

    The battle I see forecoming in the distance is not a war between Maoists Vs. Anarchists, but a war where I must rely on Maoist and Anarchist comrade alike to cover my back once the bullets start flying past our heads. After that battle is settled, then we can continue arguing about our more minor disagreements.

    [–]ibacfkjbweb 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Anarchists so self righteous toward Marxist Leninists. Like they were personally wronged or something, childish as hell. Get over yourself, the left is atomized and impotent enough without even more factions and in-fighting.

    Only people in my area as dedicated as me, who will protest with me are fucking Marxists and Socialists, meanwhile all the anarchists I know are sitting on their asses doing fuck all. Marxist Lenninists are not traitors waiting to stab you in the back as soon as they can, that's delusional thinking.

    Finkelstein was a Maoist, Paul Robeson was a Stalinist, Fred Hampton, Huey Newton, these people and many more are marxists who were/are great forces for the left.

    [–]Klupaanarchist communist -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Finkelstein was a Maoist

    And he says thinking about it now makes him cringe. All his useful work on Israel-Palestine came after he stopped being a Maoist ha.

    [–]ibacfkjbweb 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Seeing as he does lectures at the Communist University in the UK I'm gonna go out on a limb and stay he's still marxist. I say was a Maoist because I don't know his actual current political stance.

    Edit: I think his disillusionment was with Mao and the regime, not with marxism or communism as an ideology as far as what I've heard from him. He was embarrassed also about being a self righteous know it all, sound familiar?

    [–]Klupaanarchist communist 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I think he's a Trot now, but it's still irrelevant. I can appreciate the man's scholarship on Palestine while completely disagreeing with his political views (which he rarely discusses anyway).

    [–]ibacfkjbweb 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You notice how you focus in on a tiny detail as though that invalidates my whole point?

    You must be a real smarty huh

    [–]Klupaanarchist communist 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I could explain to you why "left unity" is fundamentally flawed from an anarchist perspective and has always been bullshit historically, but other users and I have already done that itt.

    [–]JackieVakarian-Maoist -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Oh my fucking god. If you douchebags want even more fucking sectarianism, I will fucking give you some goddamn sectarianism.

    I sympathize with anarchists and I often browse this subreddit, but ultimately I disagree with them on many crucial things. But after seeing this, anarchists aren't my comrades.

    Many of you anarcho-kiddies are contrarian petite-bourgeois, childish and idealistic assholes. You almost never do anything right, when you do something right, its only fucking half-shitty or half-measures at fucking best. You always fuck shit up, beg us communists for help, fuck shit up again, blame us, and then you have the gaul to fucking wonder why we hate you or why you are oppressed. You need us to survive yet you hate us and call us authoritarian, which is complete bullshit. AT LEAST WE GET SHIT DONE, YOU FUCKING PSUEDO-LIBERALS.

    I hella fucking hate ancaps, but I at least have an entire order of magnitude more respect for real anarchists than ancaps. My respect and opinions of anarchists changes on a day to day basis.

    TheFinnishBolshevik freaking destroyed anarchism for me.

    Sometimes I'm perfectly okay with making Stalin look like an anarchist.

    [–]ibacfkjbweb 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Not all Anarchists are self righteous idiots.

    [–]Futakitty: Egoist on Estradiol 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But after seeing this, anarchists aren't my comrades.

    Good, now you can go back to fapping on tank pictures ok?

    [–]Neo-man 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    AT LEAST WE GET SHIT DONE, YOU FUCKING PSUEDO-LIBERALS.

    My keks are in orbit

    [–]rechelon| post-left | pro-market | fight nihilism 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    But after seeing this, anarchists aren't my comrades.

    Well yeah. Of course we're not. We never said we were. Good riddance.