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Employer requiring men to share rooms while traveling (self.legaladvice)

opnam が 投稿

I work for a consulting company in California. Since we mainly serve the oil and gas industry, which is not doing too well right now, we are also hurting.

Our company has decided that men who are below management level will now be required to share hotel rooms while traveling (two to a room) in order to cut down costs. Women, as well as men who are managers and above, will be able to get their own rooms.

Is it just me or does this seem to be discriminatory? I asked HR and they said that women need more privacy, which I guess is true, but it doesn't seem to be fair. I know it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things, so I don't want to blow it out of proportion, but I don't think it should be legal.

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[–]zodlex 60 ポイント61 ポイント  (3子コメント)

NAL, did a fair bit of reading about this.

Here's a good way to break it down.

  1. Are you/others being denied something?

Yes

  1. Why?

Gender

  1. Is the reason for being denied covered by US discrimination laws

Yes. It is illegal to discriminate based on gender.

  1. Is this thing you're being denied covered by US discrimination laws?

Paying for a hotel is considered an employee benefit. Employee Benefits are covered by US discrimination laws. You are receiving half the employee benefit of your female counter parts

You are being discriminated against.

Edit: sources https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.132-8 https://www.forensicnotes.com/gender-discrimination-in-the-workplace

Lost some because sources because tired.

[–]Shinhan 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

So if the women also share rooms its not discrimination? In my company, company always pays for twin rooms and we all share rooms. Men and women are in separate rooms of course.

[–]HarithBK 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (0子コメント)

yes that would be fine as then it is based on your employment status and not gender.

[–]dangderr 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

So if the women also share rooms its not discrimination?

It is discrimination against non-managers. However, discriminating based on employment status is not against US discrimination laws, which fails the test that zodlex lays out.

[–]deferens 112 ポイント113 ポイント  (13子コメント)

I asked HR and they said that women need more privacy, which I guess is true

Legalities aside, I reject this assertion outright. What are women doing in a hotel room on a business trip that demands more privacy than men in a hotel room on a business trip?

[–]ElleAnn42 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (4子コメント)

The only legit thing I can think of is pumping breastmilk. I got my own hotel room on work trips when my daughter was a baby- both out of courtesy to my coworkers (I had to pump in the middle of the night as well as very early in the morning) and because I didn't want to pump in the bathroom.

[–]northshore21 13 ポイント14 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's considered a medical condition.

[–]alex_moose 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't think "women need more privacy" is a valid argument. It's possible the person you spoke with is wrong about the reason. I don't mind sharing a room with other women on casual trips, but when I'm expected to be in business dress or going to nice functions it's a problem.

Women often take longer in the shower - it takes longer to shampoo and condition long hair and to shave legs than it takes to shampoo short hair and shave a face. Most women dry and style their hair - including plugging in a curling or straightening iron ahead of time to warm up. And we all use a different model and it doesn't work well to use on with which you're not familiar. And most women spend time on make-up and need counter space for that.

Two women sharing a typical hotel room will be much slower to get ready. If it's a nicer hotel with a separate mirror and outlets in the main area that helps a little (maybe 20%).

My knee-jerk reaction to your post was that both genders should be treated the same, but if these are office workers rather than field workers, then it's simply more practical to give the women separate rooms and keep everyone on time.

[–]CETERIS_PARABOLA 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Or if they would ask if any employees would voluntarily share rooms. I'm sure at least a few people wouldn't be too bothered.

[–]Ruumpa 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry, but this is not a valid reason to discriminate. If you take longer to get ready you schedule accordingly.

Women do not need more privacy than men. I'm sure everyone would prefer their own rooms but if men have to share so should women.

[–]chintzy 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I buy this line of reasoning, but it also takes a little effort for men to get business professional. In addition to showering men need to shave, potentially iron dress clothes, possibly style or at least comb their hair, shine dress shoes, tie a tie, etc.

I will grant you that generally women might have more of a process when it comes to hair and makeup but it's not like guys can just throw on a T Shirt and head out to meet clients.

[–]Ruumpa 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hair and makeup is a preference for women, it's not mandatory. It perfectly reasonable that if a woman wants to spend hours on it she can schedule accordingly with her roommate.

[–]GothicRagnarok 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I appreciate that you're willing to share your room, but...

I call BS. As a man with long hair myself, it takes about an extra minute or two to shampoo and condition hair. Longer hair is just about half a minute longer to apply and remove from your hair. Also, since a lot of styling can be done with dry hair, why can't one shower at night and the other in the morning?

As for the whole getting ready, you just assumed every single woman there has to go through intense styling procedures as well. Most of these styling activities can literally be done on your bed with a personal mirror that you can pick up at CVS for no more than ten bucks. Odds say, you probably already have one. This includes makeup.

This is just pure discrimination against men and to try and argue it's because women take longer to get ready is blatantly stupid. As anther woman has stated, her need for milking due to childcare is a proper call for privacy in matters like this, but your hair and makeup do not require the jumbo mirror in the bathroom and your outfits are no easier to iron and get ready than a man's.

[–]megabyte1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Legalities aside, I reject this assertion outright. What are women doing in a hotel room on a business trip that demands more privacy than men in a hotel room on a business trip?

The only thing I can think of is that for a year I did my business travels with a breast pump, but that's admittedly rare.

[–]GreenHatSam 44 ポイント45 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why do women meed more privacy than men?

I am a woman. This statement has me flummoxed.

[–]Ruumpa 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

They don't.

[–]mirasteintor 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same.. The only time I travelled for business was with other females. We each got our own room. Same would have been true for two males, though.

[–]kinkakinka 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah, I understand not requiring unrelated men and women to share, but two women sharing and two men sharing is fine.

[–]emenenop 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Me too. But in every job where I've traveled it's always been the opposite - men get singles, women room together, which was equally curious to me.

[–]Mamadog5 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I worked in oil and gas and I mostly got my own room simply because there aren't that many women out there.

[–]kaaaaaaaatiecakes 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm not in oil and gas, but in my line of work, it was completely normal for females to share a tent with one or two others, while men were squeezing twenty plus. Like yours, it was a situation of populace, not discrimination.

[–]Aleore 27 ポイント28 ポイント  (2子コメント)

If the room has two beds I fail to see the problem

[–]MattAU05 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Same here. Is it unfair? Probably. Does it cause any real harm? Nope. I don't see the point in causing a big stink. I feel like there's some info missing. Whenever I've traveled with other employees for work, I've always shared a room. And if some other people aren't? Doesn't really bother me.

Maybe sole employees sharing rooms means they can save enough money so that OP still has a job. Maybe it is discriminatory, but seems like one of those things that isn't malicious or harmful. Let it go.

[–]graypants 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think the question here is whether or not OP should cause a "big stink." That's up to his personal situation, and we don't have enough information to advise about that. The question is whether or not his company is engaged in illegal discrimination.

You say it's not harmful, and I appreciate the distinction, but it's not a matter of degree. If a company decided to give a flat $2.00 year-end bonus to all men or women working at the company, but not the opposite gender, would you argue that it's not harmful so it shouldn't matter? Savings on a separate hotel room, plus the added marginal utility to the individual, is far greater than $2.00 (to tie into my example).

[–]int0xik8 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

NAL and I don't want to make assumptions about your workplace/industry, but it's possible it's just a matter of practicality? If there are only 3 women below management level who routinely travel at your company then it doesn't really make as much sense to make two of them share. But there are 20 men who routinely travel for business, then that's another issue.

Also, it's possible that one of the women has some private, potentially embarrassing medical issue requiring her to have her own room and this is the (somewhat unusual) way the higher-ups have attempted to go about making sure she's not exposed over it?

[–]opnam[S] 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (0子コメント)

NAL and I don't want to make assumptions about your workplace/industry, but it's possible it's just a matter of practicality? If there are only 3 women below management level who routinely travel at your company then it doesn't really make as much sense to make two of them share. But there are 20 men who routinely travel for business, then that's another issue.

There are definitely a lot fewer women than men, but there are enough that many trips will have 2 or more traveling together, and they each get their own room.

Also, it's possible that one of the women has some private, potentially embarrassing medical issue requiring her to have her own room and this is the (somewhat unusual) way the higher-ups have attempted to go about making sure she's not exposed over it?

I never thought about that, but even if it's true, it doesn't seem fair to give ALL the women their own room just because one of them has an issue.

[–]graypants 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Those are both really good speculative points, but does intent matter for discrimination? I thought discrimination against a protected class was illegal regardless of intent, but I'm not a lawyer either and I might be entirely incorrect.

I'm focusing purely on the legality of the issue, not the practical consideration of what OP should do about it.

[–]Sabnitron 14 ポイント15 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Your employer isn't requiring you to share a room, they're just only footing the bill for one room. You're free to rent a room in your own dime.

Regardless, it's not illegal discrimination.

[–]unkleman 34 ポイント35 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Would it be legal if only men got better accommodations due to but unrelated towards their sex?

[–]graypants 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

But they're paying for one room per two men and one room per one woman. Unless the hotel room can't be considered an employee benefit, your argument makes no sense.

[–]C6H12O4 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It may be, but what recourse would you take? If you sued them, it would more than likely sour your relationship with the company and you may come to no longer be employed there in a hurting industry. Any settlement would not be life changing either.

If its just for thought, then if women do not have to share rooms with other women than it could be. Your employer would need a compelling cause. If it is that women do not have to share with men, then I do not think it is discriminatory.

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[–]yafiygi -4 ポイント-3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I asked HR and they said that women need more privacy

Tell them you identify as a woman. If they're going to play sexist games turn it up a notch.

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    [–]whitgrim 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

    And pillowfights

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