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Railroad permanently blocked access to my family's homesteaded property. Now there's no parking, no road, and no path to get to it. [MSPaint map] (self.legaladvice)

AlaskanUncle が 投稿

ALASKA

My father-in-law homesteaded property about 30 years ago. Yes, homesteaded, like "if you live on the property, you get it for free." He built a cabin, lived on it, and got a land patent. He then moved away, and hasn't visited the property in a very long time.

I once talked to him about visiting the property, and warned him about adverse possession, and things like that. He's a bit of an anarchist, and said there was no way anybody was stealing his property, and got angry with me for suggesting it. So I had to drop it.

Now I've driven by the property a few times, and asked questions about it. My mother-in-law said they used to park in this one area by a railroad, and would hike to the cabin. (Eventually they moved out, the cabin collapsed from disrepair, and is abandoned.) But now the railroad has fenced off the parking area, making it impossible to park there. There is no other parking area within miles.

So the railroad company has already blocked their primary method of accessing the property. What can I do? Here's an image:

The most beautiful Alaskan Map ever.

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[–]Weayio342 39 ポイント40 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Have you tried contacting the railroad? How long did they park in that parking lot for?

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Have you tried contacting the railroad?

I have not. I don't know much about how railroads work, honestly. I wouldn't know where to start.

How long did they park in that parking lot for?

Some number of years. I don't know precisely how long. I think they regularly used it for 5 years, but for only part of that time did they use it on a day-to-day basis.

[–]Weayio342 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Does anyone park there now, or is the railroad just trying to keep people out with the fence? If its actively being used for maintenence now and then, you never know what a friendly conversation might get you. I'd find a way to contact the railroad, probably whoever is in charge of maintenance on that section or whatever.

Sounds like if your family stayed there a bit longer they could have acquired an easement on that parking lot, but since the use must be continuous that opportunity has lapsed, and as a semi anarchist he probably wouldn't have been interested in making that argument if and when it was available anyway.

I have j.d., but went into a different profession long ago so trust the lawyers over my thoughts.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Does anyone park there now

I don't know. Not often, I'm sure. It's along a remote stretch of railroad, not near any town or station, and I never saw anybody there.

I don't know if a prescriptive easement was acquired while they were still using the property, and if the "continuous" actually has to continue to the current day or not.

[–]armalitedan1 30 ポイント31 ポイント  (4子コメント)

I work for the railroad. Go to the nearest road crossing and take the 1-800 number off it. Tell them your situation. It might take a year but most likely they will install an access crossing to your property. If you see guys working on the tracks talk to them they may be able to give you the number of the person in charge of that line and may be able to get quicker results.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Thank you. That's a starting spot. I don't know if it'll be successful, like how you suggest, but if nothing else I could at least get some info that way. So it's a start.

Thanks!

[–]armalitedan1 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, it could go both ways. Butnin my experience the railroads are tryin to improve their relations with the public (ya know after YEARS of abusing them) so in the dealings we have with people that live near our tracks we try and help them.out when we can

[–]thrwwyfrths 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Not in my experience. I have a working relationship with our local short line and NS and they're both a bunch of assholes. Even as one of the largest customers on the short line they are as uncooperative as they can possibly be.

To boot, OP, you might have to pay a yearly fee for any kind of official crossing. Our short line tries to bill us like $800 a year for our crossings into our plant. We tell them to pound fucking sand and they cave but I doubt you could get away with that as an individual user.

[–]armalitedan1 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah i dont think the way our railroad treats customers is worth a shit either. Seems like every year we hear another one sayin they dont want anymore rail service. But it seems like they always take care of the locals. YMMV

[–]macfligh 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Maybe the railroad homesteaded the property because it was abandoned and nobody had been there in a long time.

[–]WOWStreet 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (7子コメント)

The railroad doesn't have to provide him parking. He can still own and use the land. He has ti figure out where to park and how to get there.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (6子コメント)

It's not about providing parking. It's about them taking away parking. Which I think is a completely different thing, when it comes to access, and possibly prescriptive rights.

[–]WOWStreet 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The homestead didn't come with parking.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Correct, except insofar as they used parking on public land (which may or may not have been leased to a railroad, or something like that) for many years without interference from any entity.

I've suggested that this may have provided them with prescriptive rights, but I'm not sure. (Prescriptive rights are obtained by using land that doesn't actually belong to you. AKA "squatter's rights.")

Anyway, it's like 2:30 AM here, so I'll check responses in the morning.

[–]thepatmanQuality Contributor 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Correct, except insofar as they used parking on public land

"Public land" means the public, through their elected officials, gets to do what they want with it, including lease it to the railroad, fence it off, or turn it into a haven for disco. It doesn't mean you as an individual get to use it or decide its use.

Had you maintained access to the property for all these years, you may have had a claim for an easement due to open and continuous use - but you don't have that. Your only option is to negotiate with the railroad, and/or the local municipality, to see what access they can grant you. If that doesn't work, talk to a local attorney about your options.

[–]nerga 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Parking on the rail road land probably won't give you any rights to use the land to park. Sounds like a different solution is needed.

[–]Reddisaurusrekts 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's not how that works, unless he homesteaded the parking too...

[–]WOWStreet 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

which may or may not have been leased to a railroad, or something like that) for many years without interference from any entity.

If the railroad let them park there? Fine. The railroad can change it's mind. You aren't going to get the ARR to open it back up so you can access land and cross tracks because it's convenient for you.

Find another option.

[–]ethanGeltan -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (13子コメント)

Assuming this isn't a joke post (it's pretty funny, 10/10 kek), you have no 'recourse'. The railroad has built a fence around their parking area on their land, in no way does that effect you, a private citizen with private land far away from there, who had some crazy expectation of indefinite free parking for 3+ decades

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Assuming this isn't a joke post

It's not. I added a couple animals to the map because I thought it was funny, but everything else is accurate. (But there are orcas and moose around, so it's not entirely inaccurate either.)

The railroad has built a fence around their parking area on their land,

I don't really know who owns the land in question. The surrounding area is all public land, with a railroad and highway going through it. Obviously the railroad has some rights, but I'm not sure as to the extent of those rights.

...Such as, whether or not they can build a fence around the area to block everyone from parking there. I know enough about civil land law to know that these things are rarely as simple as you'd initially expect.

in no way does that effect you, a private citizen with private land far away from there, who had some crazy expectation of indefinite free parking for 3+ decades

I already explained how it affects me and my family.

[–]Bulletsandblueyes 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (8子コメント)

It's not described well so I'm not sure what the recourse would be but you have the right to have a valid way of accessing your property

[–]ethanGeltan 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (7子コメント)

which has been in no way denied by the railroad. If they'd fenced off all the borders of the property then maybe, but not some parking lot miles away.

[–]Bulletsandblueyes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (6子コメント)

I have no idea. it's kind of hard to tell from the pic and I'm not about how parking works with the reasonable entry laws especially in another state

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (5子コメント)

The pic gives a reasonable generalization of the situation.

Theoretically, we could walk many miles to the property after parking somewhere else. Or we could start pulling over in a specific area, and maybe through some work, create a little parking area.

I know it seems weird to focus so much on parking, but there is no nearby town, no pull-overs, no (real) highway shoulder, and only one fast lane in either direction. And the terrain is... Alaskan. Swampy (or frozen), tons of trees, tons of obstacles, wildlife, and generally very difficult to traverse.

So you walk along a highway alongside speeding traffic for many miles, and/or through extremely difficult terrain. It's just unsafe, dangerous, and treacherous. You don't want to park far away.

[–]Bulletsandblueyes 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why don't you have a road to the property? I think that's kind of the kicker here.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

Because it was a remote homesteaded piece of property next to a highway in Alaska where nobody cared what you did and you could get away with just about anything.

Nowadays things are more restrictive, but that's not saying a whole lot.

[–]Bulletsandblueyes 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, build a road. That's about the only advice I can give you.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

There's a road by where I live now. The road is platted, but was never built.

I've heard estimates that building the road now would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars... for less than 1/2 mile dirt road.

I'm pretty sure that back in the day, if they built it then, they'd just clear trees with a bulldozer, pile on some dirt, and call it a day. But now I'd need, like, a billion permits, an engineering study, subgrade compaction, designed drainage, specially-chosen and graded fill lifts, etc.

Things ain't cheap anymore.

Plus, I just think it'd be nice to have some kind of regular access like they used to have. I don't need a paved road right up to the front door.

[–]Bulletsandblueyes 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well the problem with what you are asking is that sure the railroad has to let you be able to get to your property but they have no requirement to let you park your car anywhere on their property you know?

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Original Post:

Author: /u/AlaskanUncle

Railroad permanently blocked access to my family's homesteaded property. Now there's no parking, no road, and no path to get to it. [MSPaint map]

My father-in-law homesteaded property about 30 years ago. Yes, homesteaded, like "if you live on the property, you get it for free." He built a cabin, lived on it, and got a land patent. He then moved away, and hasn't visited the property in a very long time.

I once talked to him about visiting the property, and warned him about adverse possession, and things like that. He's a bit of an anarchist, and said there was no way anybody was stealing his property, and got angry with me for suggesting it. So I had to drop it.

Now I've driven by the property a few times, and asked questions about it. My mother-in-law said they used to park in this one area by a railroad, and would hike to the cabin. (Eventually they moved out, the cabin collapsed from disrepair, and is abandoned.) But now the railroad has fenced off the parking area, making it impossible to park there. There is no other parking area within miles.

So the railroad company has already blocked their primary method of accessing the property. What can I do? Here's an image:

The most beautiful Alaskan Map ever.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Yo, bot, I said it was "Alaskan." As in, Alaska.

[–]PM-Me-BeerQuality Contributor 31 ポイント32 ポイント  (5子コメント)

Please do not be rude to our best bot. It isn't his fault that he's never heard of the great state of Alaskan.

[–]AlaskanUncle[S] 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Don't get me wrong. I love LocationBot! He's just a little weird, what with the cat facts and all.

[–]LocationBoat 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Come to the dark side my son.