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École Polytechnique, Montréal: Remember the 14 (cbc.ca)

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[–]Pheyd80 17 ポイント18 ポイント  (27子コメント)

So tragic, these massacres are most often the cause of mental health issues that go unnoticed or ignored. Mental health awareness, education, outreach, etc. is the best way to prevent these from happening :(

[–]I_Hate_DiscoNunavut 47 ポイント48 ポイント  (24子コメント)

His suicide note claimed political motives and blamed feminists for ruining his life.

His actions were political

[–]picklestheyellowcat 41 ポイント42 ポイント  (11子コメント)

A mentally stable person isn't going to murder innocent people because they are angry at feminists...

This guy clearly had serious mental health issues.

[–]hopeyesperanza 9 ポイント10 ポイント  (7子コメント)

I take it that the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were all mentally unstable then.

[–]TrustButtVerifyLest We Forget 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (6子コメント)

next time try harder. are you trying to link religion to this?

[–]gmarsh23 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think /u/hopeyesperanza is trying to say that both Lepine and the 9/11 hijackers rationalized their actions. Hell, so did the Jonestown massacre victims - were all of those people mentally unstable too?

People can be convinced of their beliefs to the point that logic and reasoning can't pull them out of it. I don't think it's necessarily a sign of mental illness.

[–]RapsFan420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Even a cursory glance at his suicide note makes it absolutely crystal clear that he had severe mental illness.

The 9/11 hijackers and Jones Town stuff has a lot more involved and there's a lot of room to debate the mental health of those involved, but if Lepine wasn't mentally ill then we might as well just drop the term completely.

[–]gmarsh23 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, just read that suicide note... definitely some psychopath behavior going on there. N/m.

[–]hopeyesperanza 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I had no idea that there were so many psychiatrists on reddit. Truly we are blessed.

[–]gmarsh23 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yup. And engineers, top athletes, expert sport coaches, guys who have banged like 1000000 women, snipers trained in gorilla warfare, people with 180 IQs... reddit's got so much to offer!

[–]a7neu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

makes it absolutely crystal clear that he had severe mental illness.

How so?

[–]Pheyd80 20 ポイント21 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Regardless if he had political motives. The underlying mental issues were the method of rationalising his actions.

[–]-oopsie-poopsie- 22 ポイント23 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel it's not safe to completely dismiss his actions as purely an act of mental illness. I am sure it's a factor by it's always important to recognize that unchecked misogyny played a huge huge role. It wasn't just mental illness, it was a mentally ill person deeply infected with misogyny.

[–]AkesgerothQuébec 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't need to be psychotic to do shit like that.

[–]KenjiSenpai 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Political conviction is a mental illness imo. I'm a student of polytechnique. Thise time of the year is always a little down for everyone at school. This is a very big part of the mythos of the school. Multiple times per semester people talk about it. I hear about this event at least once every two months so I'm hopeful people are still remembering what are the effects of misogyny and political extremism.

[–]kylesearle 10 ポイント11 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Reminder of his background:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_L%C3%A9pine

A lot of people forget where his attitude came from.

[–]controversialphallus 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

It seems most people just want to ignore details and slap on their simple explanations. Nuance is dead.

[–]Coziestpigeon2Manitoba 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

According to the mentally-unsound person.

[–]itchyscratchy4545 32 ポイント33 ポイント  (2子コメント)

There's a link between sexist attitudes and poor mental health. No sane person does what he did.

[–]YongeArcade -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

That explains why Feminists are so crazy

[–]De_tr0p 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

While overall, conforming to masculine norms was associated with negative mental health outcomes in subjects, the researchers found the association to be most consistent for these three norms — self-reliance, pursuit of playboy behavior and power over women.

I'd say it's the opposite. If you're excelling at all the masculine gender norms that women respond positively to, you'd be very happy, and extremely successful. You wouldn't be shooting up women in schools and saying feminism ruined your life.

[–]RapsFan420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

If you go by that metric every single random massacre is political.

[–]garrett_k 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also religious.

[–]ngwooSaskatchewan 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, terrorism and mental health issues are not mutually exclusive.

[–]mwmwmwmwmmdwQuébec 11 ポイント12 ポイント  (1子コメント)

the massively changed our gun laws because of this tragedy, but have they changed our mental health access since then?

[–]Saudi-Prince 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes they provide far less treatment and the mentally ill mostly end up living on the streets, homeless and addicted to drugs. But dont worry, this tragedy was caused by all white men, not by a mentally ill man. We placed the blame on the correct minority group and have successfully used them as a scapegoat.

[–]selwyntownship 3 ポイント4 ポイント  (3子コメント)

At the time my boss was teaching engineering at McGill. Through him I heard a rumor that one of the women was able to disarmed the killer only to fall victim to his knife.

I won't mention names since it was only a rumor.

[–]Prettyniceguytoo 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (2子コメント)

From what I've been able to gather about the shooting over the years , he did not experience any resistance from his victims. Only a few times when his gun failed to fire (most likely forgot to reload).

[–]Whiggly 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

From what I've read, the gas system in his rifle seized up at some point, and he kept on using it by manually operating the bolt.

[–]diemaco_kid 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

He tried to convert it to auto and damaged the rifle as a result.

[–]YongeArcade -5 ポイント-4 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Every year this comes up and I see the media bleating feminist disinformation and women getting jobs and appointments because they have a vagina and the government in acting discriminatory practices into law.

I come closer to the conclusion that Marc Lépine was right.

[–]trolledbyproQuébec 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (0子コメント)

My mom was a couple years out of engineering from Concordia and told me that this event shoock her pretty baf

[–]gmarsh23 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Props to the CBC for not evening mentioning ML's name.

Burn in hell you piece of shit.

[–]lemonstew 16 ポイント17 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I could never forget them. RIP dearest young Canadians lost to us forever. :'-(

[–]TheTurp 28 ポイント29 ポイント  (1子コメント)

I've studied engineering at the Polytechnique. Everywhere in the school the seats were red, except in one room where they were blue. I was told they changed them after the shooting because a lot of people died in that classroom. It was always very creepy to have a class in that room....

Disclaimer: It might be an urban legend, but I never heard anyone say it wasn't why the seats were blue.

[–]ChaosKnightofNew[🍰] 61 ポイント62 ポイント  (55子コメント)

He was the service's director of public relations and promised to go in and report back to the media, unaware that his daughter was among the victims.

He found her lying next to the gunman.

He immediately recognized her sweater, which she had worn to Sunday dinner the week before. She said she had bought it for Christmas.

Good lord :(

[–]Painting_Agency 43 ポイント44 ポイント  (54子コメント)

Wow that's extra awful :(

This grotesque crime happened when I was in high school. I'm a lot older now; I have my own young daughter. I see people still post things here that could have come straight out of M*** L*****'s mouth... and this is why I have zero patience for them.

[–]leanansidney 29 ポイント30 ポイント  (42子コメント)

I see people still post things here that could have come straight out of M*** L*****'s mouth...

Seriously. And it's not just here, either. :/ There are a lot of places online - mostly white, mostly 18-30 male, mostly seething with resentment toward women and "others" - that breed this kind of stuff. And if people do nothing, it spreads and does harm.

So it's really really important to speak up against people like that.

[–]akoustic 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (37子コメント)

Going to guess that other cultures are worse regarding violence against women, as well as lgqt, than white men. Just a gut feeling.

[–]leanansidney 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (24子コメント)

c'mon, son, you're not even trying.

"Other cultures" (which ones? Oh wait this is a shorthand for Brown People.) being "worse" doesn't make violent, toxic misogyny any less bad or less worth caring about.

And it doesn't make violently misogynistic white men any less worthy of our condemnation.

[–]Haynous 18 ポイント19 ポイント  (18子コメント)

I'll try for him. "Other cultures" probably means the cultures of predominantly Muslim countries, which aren't always, but tend to have unfair or downright evil treatment of women. It's not "brown people". And yes, just because the treatment of women is worse in other counties does not mean we can tolerate misogyny here. The problem I have with your comment is that it is implying white men are far more likely to be misogynistic racists than anyone else. The group is always judged by who are the loudest and most obnoxious. So it's easy to point to a bunch of white male idiots and say "Look what white dudes are saying!"

[–]leanansidney 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (14子コメント)

you could have saved yourself a lot of typing by just going "not all men!"

But, uh, I was talking about particular communities and spaces - mra/trp/mgtow/incel communities, chans, et cetera - that breed violent misogyny (and racism, and homo/transphobia, and etc.) and the need to speak out against people pushing the kind of toxic views these places promote.

If that pushes your "someone's stereotyping white men!!!!!" button i don't know what to tell you.

[–]Haynous 7 ポイント8 ポイント  (12子コメント)

So it's perfectly okay to stereotype white men but nobody else?

[–]leanansidney 12 ポイント13 ポイント  (11子コメント)

I didn't actually say that and there's no way you could get that out of what I said if you actually read it, but that's kinda the point, isn't it?

There's no point talking to you if you're going to wildly distort stuff, so buzz off.

[–]Haynous 6 ポイント7 ポイント  (10子コメント)

If that pushes your "someone's stereotyping white men!!!!!" button i don't know what to tell you.

Yes you just said this. You are acting like people stereotyping white men is just some joke and shouldn't be taken seriously. I'm not wildly distorting anything and quite frankly every comment of yours that I've read is ridiculous.

[–]masonvdBritish Columbia [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, because speaking out against them will certainly make them realize the error of their ways.

Maybe try working towards a society that doesn't demonize white men so much and you won't find these outsiders willing to commit violence.

[–]RapsFan420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

The problem I have with your comment is that it is implying white men are far more likely to be misogynistic racists than anyone else

Online. He specified that he was talking about online boards/comments sections where he sees this stuff. And he also specified that it was typically in places with what he implied to be a racist bent.

Do you not have any reading comprehension skills? Honestly why can't this sub ban people who are just outright stupid or lazy? How brief was his god damn post that it was somehow difficult for you to follow?

Not a god damned word of his post suggested regular white people were more likely to be violent or to hate women or any of what you seem to believe it suggested out of nothing but your own failure to read at an adult level. I know I'm being pissy but honestly I get so tired of this shit. You can't just invent an aspect of somebody else's post to give yourself something to disagree with.

[–]Haynous 4 ポイント5 ポイント  (1子コメント)

Online. He specified that he was talking about online boards/comments sections where he sees this stuff. And he also specified that it was typically in places with what he implied to be a racist bent.

Yes you are right. I did realize my mistake after posting but my point still stands about stereotyping white people. The problem is that it is often implied that since the "white racist" presence is so prevalent online that it must mean most if not all white people are closet racists. So while I was technically wrong, I still think I'm correct.

Do you not have any reading comprehension skills? Honestly why can't this sub ban people who are just outright stupid or lazy? How brief was his god damn post that it was somehow difficult for you to follow?

Yes, I do have reading comprehension skills. Despite your example of my mistake, I would consider myself to have better reading comprehension than average. Please don't call me stupid or lazy based on one thing I typed online. Yes the post was brief and I jumped to my response very quickly.

Not a god damned word of his post suggested regular white people were more likely to be violent or to hate women

Yes she did not explicitly say that. The implication is strong.

failure to read at an adult level

Again, I made a mistake.

I know I'm being pissy but honestly I get so tired of this shit. You can't just invent an aspect of somebody else's post to give yourself something to disagree with.

That's not what I was trying to do at all. I call people out on that myself. You know what gets me pissy? When someone says this to me:

Well I was going to paste a comment but he deleted it. It was basically an Egyptian guy living in Toronto calling me "whitey" and saying very deluded things.

[–]RapsFan420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I did realize my mistake after posting but my point still stands about stereotyping white people.

That simply isn't what stereotyping is. That is some BLM style victimization you're attempting there. Observing that these comments sections are mostly white, which is relevant because he also factored in that there was a racist element, is not stereotyping. If anything he stereo typed far right online commenters as white.....which is most certainly true. Just as you'd be correct to suggest that far left commentators have a higher prevalence of people who bafflingly identify as a non-binary gender.

That's as far as I'm going to go in this reply. If you can't smarten up the you're not worth anyone's time.

[–]Saudi-Prince -3 ポイント-2 ポイント  (3子コメント)

And it doesn't make violently misogynistic white men any less worthy of our condemnation.

You should not condemn a gender or a race. But every dec 6 thats what the media does: gleefully.

[–]spottedleaf_medcat 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You realize "violently misogynistic" is the modifier for white men?

[–]Saudi-Prince -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Its a modifier that is more often than not left completely off. Especially on Dec 6.

[–]leanansidney 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

nonono but you see an unkind word about specifically violently misogynistic white men is an injustice to literally all white men

[–]RapsFan420 5 ポイント6 ポイント  (10子コメント)

He was talking about the people who make fucked up comments online. Weirdly you kind of proved his point completely.

[–]Saudi-Prince 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

black people dont make fucked up comments online?

[–]RapsFan420 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (8子コメント)

On racist message boards? No, typically they do not. Some surely do, but most people who comment on what he implied to be racist message boards are typically white.

Thanks for the question though. Glad I could clear that up for you.

[–]Saudi-Prince -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Actually of the black, Chinese, Muslim, Native and white people i know.. the white people are far less racist than the other groups. In my experience.

[–]deyesed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

lgqt?

[–]RawPinkFleshAlberta 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

You have to be delusional to claim only white men are prone to sexism or violence against women.

[–]MioneDarcy 8 ポイント9 ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's shocking to see Western white men react with misogyny, especially the vitriolic and violent sort, when they do. We tend to think of Western white men to be "more enlightened" and "cultured" than "those brown people" that people mention in other posts in this thread (i.e. Muslims), so we are always surprised when it's shown that that is not always the case. No one thinks that only white men are prone to sexism or violence against women, but they are shocked when people who grow up in a Western culture do display those tendencies. Given the education and society, you'd think it'd be better by now, but it's not.

[–]Saudi-Prince -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

No one thinks that only white men are prone to sexism or violence against women

Wrong. The CBC ran a story and they literally said "all men are violent".

[–]Saudi-Prince 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (0子コメント)

Do you ever talk about how "most black" people commit crimes? I think you probably don't. Why do you feel is a-okay to group young white males in with this killer?

Thats a rhetorical question, i know the answer. You feel its okay because its exactly what the media has been teaching you to do.

[–]Syrupmeister 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (10子コメント)

Yes, let's be anti-social to people that scare us. Why engage them in conversation when that could only challenge our own kneejerk reactions and possibly benefit both parties.

[–]RapsFan420 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (9子コメント)

Lol this is some low quality trolling. Man this sub has gone way down hill.

[–]Haynous 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (7子コメント)

Maybe because you go around calling people "white trash" with no points to actually contradict them.

[–]RapsFan420 -2 ポイント-1 ポイント  (6子コメント)

Respond to my point. You admit you made a mistake but still insist that he was stereotyping white people when in fact he was stereotyping another group as white. That isn't the same thing. If you can't figure that out you're not ready for an adult conversation with anyone.

If I say that most NBA players are black am I stereotyping black people as basketball players? Of course not. But we know that most NBA players are indeed black.

We can also safely assume that most alt right commenters (which he seems to have clearly been referring to) are indeed white. But that in no way means he is saying that most white people are far right internet commenters.

[–]Haynous 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (5子コメント)

You admit you made a mistake but still insist that he was stereotyping white people when in fact he was stereotyping another group as white. That isn't the same thing.

Yes, they aren't the same thing. Maybe I was wrong in my interpretation of what he said but I have seen it so many times people try to prove that since there are so many white "alt-righters" online that it means most white people are racist. Maybe I pre-emptively countered that after hearing it so much. In that case I am wrong. But I am not wrong about the overall stereotyping of white people. See, this is what discussion is about, growing and improving. You don't need to go to insults.

[–]RapsFan420 -1 ポイント0 ポイント  (4子コメント)

Yes, you were wrong about him stereotyping white people. Did you not see my other post? Who the fuck am I dealing with here? lol god damn.

[–]Haynous 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah, I just admitted it. What more do you want? I don't understand how flabbergasted you are that I made a mistake.

[–]RapsFan420 0 ポイント1 ポイント  (1子コメント)

You made a very annoying mistake. It's basically impossible to have a discussion on a subject when somebody twists your argument.

[–]Haynous 1 ポイント2 ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're also being really condescending every time you respond. Doesn't help to treat someone you're talking to like a child.

[–]Syrupmeister 2 ポイント3 ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dunno, passive-aggressively dismissing things you don't agree with because you can't be bothered to articulate anything of substance is distinctly more tragic than admonishing people to behave like adults. :/