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Advice requested: MRP creating distance in my marriage (self.askMRP)

ShiveringPines が 投稿

I'm about 5+ months into RP. My last OYS is here. I'm posting this in AskMRP because I only assume it would get flagged as a low-value post in the main MRP sub, but I really would like input.

Sitrep: 35M, wife just a few years younger, together 5+ years, married >2. Sex has dried up pretty bad. Pursuant to RP, I try to initiate often, put forth an exterior of OI and absolutely avoid butthurt after I'm rejected, which is pretty much all the time.

I'm caught in something of a dilemma. I don't sulk or act resentful after I get turned down for sex, blowjobs and the like. Maintain OI. I try channeling that energy into my own projects (mostly lifting, coding and a professional cert I'm studying for). Yet Mrs. SP interprets my retreat into other activities as distancing myself from her - which, I suppose, it is. When I don't feel very connected to her, and I'm not getting what I want (i.e. sex), I'm just not putting in a ton of energy into doing the things that she wants. There is obvious growing distance between us.

That distance can have two conceivable effects that I foresee:

  • Possibility 1 - it gets her hamster running, and combined with the effects of running my MAP for the last several months, it reignites her desire for me, I get laid and she re-enters my frame. Happy path.

  • Possibility 2 - she feels increasingly alienated from me, scuttling her desire for me and generating resentment and suspicion. This is the path towards divorce.

Overall, RP is working great for me. I feel better, stronger, more independent and I'm hitting my goals - this is why I'm doing it. Living life in the "what would I be doing if I were single?" frame has been a huge eye-opener, and overall it's been a net positive. But it has not had a great impact on my marriage, and the side effects of better and more enthusiastic sex are not materializing. So I'm wondering if there are ways I can tweak this approach, or if others have advice on my strategy here. If I can find a way to modify my RP journey to better include my wife and lead to better sex + marriage, I'd love to do that. (And if not, well, then the long-term alternative is clear.)

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[–]BluepillProfessorMod / Red Beret 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

A basic marriage counseling technique is to create distance along with opportunities to bond so this part of MRP is hardly radical. Uncertainty in the relationship usually creates sexual tension for women especially if you are at least close to her best hypergamous choice. If not then you have some work to do.

Your problem is you are doing this for your wife, not for yourself.

[–]ShiveringPines[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not really. I started RP for my wife/marriage, but along the way have internalized it as a personal improvement journey. Like I said above, I'd love to find some way to improve my marriage along with it as a side effect, but it's not the main impetus.

[–]RPAlternate42Red Beret 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

First and foremost: MRP is not about improving you marriage. MRP is about improving you. The most likely outcome of this is that the marriage improves. If the marriage doesn't improve you are still improved and the time spent in MRP has now prepared you for other, younger, and hotter women.

Yet Mrs. SP interprets my retreat into other activities as distancing myself from her - which, I suppose, it is.

Own it. Own it more if it's been a pattern.

Every time I don't want to have sex with you, you go off and do something else and I feel like you're running away from me and making distance just because I don't want to have sex with you!

"That sounds frustrating but it sounds like you know the solution to your problem."

This makes it your frame. She will complain that YOU are running away. This is an attempt at altering your frame which is she is pushing you away.

The problem: she feels abandoned from rejecting sex with you. The solution: have sex with her.

Now, to your job: Everytime you have sex with her, ramp the niceness up. Cuddle with her, spend time with her (within reason of your available time for her.) Do A (one, singular) chore that she may do normally and say nothing about it. Text her something nice during the day; not a conversation, just something nice. (yes, I know this breaks the "text for logistics" rule in MRP, but sometimes the text game IS logistics. Basically just do the shit that makes her feel nice but this stuff must be above base line nice.

Example: If you talk to her normally... start talking to her a little more. If you normally cook dinner on X night and she cleans up... do the clean-up for her. If you normally watch TV with her for 1 show... do it for 2. If you normally don't change the laundry over... then change it over.

My wife gets all kinds of giddy when I empty the dishwasher (normally she does it.) I say nothing... she opens it and finds it empty, and her body language just looks like a weight was lifted... and she knows I did it, but I say nothing.

Also, escalate as normal... when she rejects you, just go back to baseline. if she continues to reject, start removing baseline.

So when you "run" to do those other things after rejection, makes sure you still do those other things normally. If she never sees you doing those things EXCEPT when she rejects you, then it looks butt hurt. If you do them normally and the ALSO retreat to them post rejection, then she knows that you are doing it because she rejected you, you just don;t look as hurt about it.

Trust me: she ALWAYS knows rejection hurts you. How much she cares about it varies.

Aim for possibility 1, but don't change YOU to do it.

Sometimes women don't adjust; sometimes marriages fail. at least you know it fails because of her low value not because of your improving value.

[–]Persaeus 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Trust me: she ALWAYS knows rejection hurts you. How much she cares about it varies.

She does not care about your butthurt feelings at all. If she did care, she would likely involuntarily puke. You would get more sympathy for a paper cut.

[–]ShiveringPines[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is the first useful practical response to my post. Thanks. This strategy makes intuitive sense to me.

[–]2gunsgetsome 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

So when you "run" to do those other things after rejection, makes sure you still do those other things normally. If she never sees you doing those things EXCEPT when she rejects you, then it looks butt hurt

This is critical and also something you'll need with whoever you want to bang, regardless of the continuation of the marriage.

[–]SampsonBrass 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Spend some time, if you haven't already and more time if you have, reading /u/thefamilyalpha. It should be very helpful to you with this:

modify my rp journey to better include my wife

[–]ShiveringPines[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I've looked at the blog, but haven't read carefully. I will now. Thanks.

[–]weakandsensitive 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't sulk or act resentful after I get turned down for sex, blowjobs and the like.

I don't believe you.

Your marriage might end. Figure that out.

If I can find a way to modify my RP journey to better include my wife and lead to better sex + marriage, I'd love to do that.

This is a gay mentality and why you're going to fail.

How much you lie to yourself is a joke. I'd bet money you're a stage 5 clinger for you wife. Shit, she dominates this entire post.

[–]redmountainpill 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

No kids and a wife that doesn't put out? You're setting up a situation where you've established that you'll put up with a lot of shit. When kids come, you've essentially given her carte blanche to shit on you every day and still not have sex because she knows you won't leave. I understand guys who stay because they want to provide a nuclear family. You are just being spineless

[–]anythingincRed Beret 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

From your thread in r/divorce

no kids...my marriage is not improving...I very much want a family....I have to consider the possibility that I would not necessarily meet someone else very soon after separating from my wife. That could mean not having kids until I'm in my late 30s, or 40s, or perhaps even ever. And I'm trying to decide if that is a risk I am willing to take. On one hand, my marriage is becoming a net cost in my life, wife and I want different things for our future lives, and I am increasingly dubious about her qualities as a potential mother. OTOH, what can I learn to live with/tolerate/accept in exchange for long-term stability?

You're scared, you're living in scarcity. If you believed in your own value even a little bit you would know that you could have a better woman knocked up in 6 months. Chemistry, family, prospects, hobbies, dating history, sexual compatibility, you can find out this shit in a couple dates. What you want is effort and genuine desire, and you'll know that when you have it. I was divorced and childless in my mid 30s two years ago too. You sound very similar, like she's checked out. Tinder, POF, OKC, going outside your house as a high-value man, the game isn't the same as it was 7 years ago.

she doesn't even want to look at my cock anymore. My cum is "disgusting." Sex is "gross."

I don't know what your SMV is, if you could get sex from any free woman with options, but I know you are scared of losing her. I don't know why considering what you said above, no sex, no value, no effort. You haven't let go yet. You haven't owned that your life would be ok (better?) without her.

wife and I want different things for our future lives, and I am increasingly dubious about her qualities as a potential mother.

I don't know what is involved in that statement, but nobody in their right mind would tell you to have kids in that situation. And you want kids, but not with her? Tick tock motherfucker.

I read a couple posts of yours and didn't see where or how you gamed your wife, but it's becoming irrelevant. If she isn't following, if she is allowing distance to form, she either doesn't notice or doesn't care, checked out. From the sounds of it, I bet you could get an ILYBINILWY out of her without much prompting, what would your MAP dictate then?

She knows you are a option-less low value man too.

she doesn't even want to look at my cock anymore. My cum is "disgusting." Sex is "gross."

How did you react to this? okay.jpg?

She just ended your relationship. If you didn't act like that was a last straw, if your reaction didn't lead to some hysterical bonding on her part, then you displayed your low value and lack of options, every day for the past two months you have showed her, us, yourself, exactly what you think of yourself and the bullshit you will endure.

I will attempt to be a great husband for a woman that hates my cock, hates my cum, hates sex with me

Fuck that

I would begin building a life separate from her. Checking, credit cards etc... Still try to be charming, still trying to game, still trying to fuck her brains out...but from a separate life. If you have any value to her she will begin to make efforts to keep you. If not, then what have you really lost?

MAYBE you could have a conversation about low libido, you're negotiating desire, but we're winding down here anyway.

I have a low libido baby, and I don't want to do anything about it, even though there therapies and pills that increase my sex drive, I won't take them for you.

That should be about all you need.

It's possible that end-game, high-dread divorce/separation moves would motivate her desire, but you're either too chicken shit or just not ready for that yet. I'm sorry man. It sucks. We say act like you have irrational self confidence, display high value, but if you snuggled up to sleep with a bitch that called your cock gross....you might have a little more frame, you might be better at STFU, you might be a little lower b/f%....but you are still not where you need to be.

[–]bogeyd6Mod / Red Pill Militia 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

wife and I want different things for our future lives, and I am increasingly dubious about her qualities as a potential mother.

If OP thinks this, you can bet money on that his wife has over thought this for at least the last year.

[–]ReddJive 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If I can find a way to modify my RP journey to better include my wife and lead to better sex + marriage,

If this is where your head is at you need to get your shit together.

I'd love to do that. (And if not, well, then the long-term alternative is clear.)

gawd, again you are looking to alter things best for her. Man the fuck up here.

I was kind with you until these last two pieces of bullshit.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Same team farva! Same team!

[–]JDRoedell 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The "M" in MRP could really be replaced with anything. RP is about building better men in a feminized society, and yes, it's about sexual strategy. But it isn't about fixing marriages. It's about men improving their own lives who just so happen to also be married. We could have hundreds of other subs that talk about bettering men who have other specific challenges (like marriage) that tend to act as obstacles to this improvement. I'll propose some:

DRP - Depression Red Pill SARP - Social Anxiety Red Pill BRP - Balding Red Pill CRP - Cancer Red Pill ERP - Ego Red Pill SDRP - Small dick Red Pill URP - unemployed Red Pill CEDRP - Chronic explosive diarrhea red pill.

Etc, etc.

The married part is a descriptor/challenge, not the goal.

EDIT: thought of another RP sub

[–]Big_Daddy_PDX 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You're still too worried about how she feels and it sounds like your confidence is lower than your SMV. I you aren't confident, you've got nothing for her to desire.

[–]redearththeory 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The difference between Possibility 1 and 2 may be whether she is attracted to you. What is your height, weight, bench, bf%, where are you on game?

[–]GargantuaBlarg29 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You have accurately described the two paths MRP can take your marriage. But your path 2 is all about how she will head to divorce you (the victim). Stop being the victim. If she doesn't want to be a part of your life and wants divorce, that's good for you. Find someone who does. If she DOES want to be a part of your life, which includes fucking you, then that's good for you. WIn win.

[–]SorcererKingMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Not a ton of detail here. How you doing on shit and comfort tests? Can you tell the difference? Are you passing both? Get your comfort ratio tuned up.

If all that is good, then make sure you're leading the relationship, not just doing your thing and swooping in to try get laid once in a while. Think back to when you were dating. What did you two do that was fun? How about when things were good in the marriage?

Bottom line: sounds like you've come a long way. Make sure you send the right signals about that.

[–]ShiveringPines[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just didn't want to rehash what I've written before (OYS etc). I'm doing pretty good at STFU and rebuffing shit tests, and can serve up beta comfort when it's needed. I try to pre-empt comfort needs too, and honestly I think I'm doing pretty good on that front. That said, I don't over-deliver. I will let her just stew occasionally rather than rush to comfort her.

Leading in the relationship is something I can do better on. Often, I'll plan/propose an activity for us, and she'll shoot it down immediately - "oh, I don't want to [do that/eat there/etc]." I want to avoid the "okay, do you want to eat at [A/B/C/D/E/F/G/H-Z]" thing, because that effectively puts me in her frame and transfers power. Yet then, if we go to my choice anyway, then we're explicitly doing something she has expressed disinterest in. Dilemma.

[–]BigRedRover 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Often, I'll plan/propose an activity for us, and she'll shoot it down immediately

You're entering her frame by setting it up so that she has input on shooting it down in the first place. What I mean is that you're giving her the opportunity to turn it into a discussion of wanting to do it at all.

Instead of proposing that you go do X, you can always tell her to be ready at Y time and to wear Z, then just get her ass in the car and go. She will likely protest to some degree wanting to know where you're going, which is a minor shit test that you can blow through with some absurd answer like we're going to build a rocket.

Essentially, you're falling into the trap of having a discussion with her about where you're going instead of simply leading.

[–]ShiveringPines[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I like it - this is worth a try. Thanks.

[–]RuleZeroDAD 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We have this distinction with a difference here all of the time, and it's telling regarding one's frame and whether anyone else has entered it.

I plan, she approves. v. I lead, she follows.

When you make plans, you do them. You eat where you plan, not suggest a course of action for the "wife seal of approval."

[–]Aaren_Augustine -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Tons of small stuff, but the main one is what is your life's mission.

From there, for me, it's wake up at 4:50 a.m. and lift weights. Write my fiction, hit goals...I envision creating distance as you chasing your desires in life, not running or playing hard to get with your wife. Women catch on to that real fucking quick; due to it being a female strategy.

BPP says passive dread, due to it's passive qualities. Making it purposeful negates your efforts.

[–]logger1234 -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

option 3 - she is holding on to power tooth and nail for as long as possible. This could happen. You may eventually reach F U or F Me, which is on the red pill path.

How will you know? When you say "Be in the car at (time)" and she asks why and you say "it's a surprise", she refuses to get in the car. You ask "I'm going to starbucks, want to come?" and she says no. Every. Single. Time.

Eventually you stop eating out together. Ever.

Things may get worse for you relationship-wise. If you want teh sex, you may need to next her. OR, you could decide to have no sex, but have such an awesome life doing other stuff that you don't care.

It does happen, look at the evolution of a lifter:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kbSfFFEvxw

[–]nantucketghost -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'd be a little more up front with her. When she says that she feels like your distancing yourself. Tell her that if she put on something sexy to entice you out of the office, you would.

Also to note: If she doesn't think there is ever a chance of her losing you, then why should she change? Keep bettering yourself. Don't be afraid to jokingly tell her that you'll trade her in for a younger model (treating her like a car and possession that while you can love it, you can always get a better newer one).

or just tell her that it's been a while and your needs can't hold out any longer. If she shoots you down after saying that, you need to have a frank discussion and tell her that if that keeps happening you're just going to have to find someone that can take care of you.

[–]JDRoedell 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is late stage dread level shit. I don't think he's there yet