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Since the actual announcement post is shitposts and circlejerking, as is tradition, let's actually talk about the "Crackdown on Grandstanding and Surplus" announcement (self.MetaSubredditDrama)

Erra0 が 投稿

I've made this point before, but these increasingly specific rules on what is an allowable post are going to whittle away SRD's content until nothing is left. There are already so few posts a day, especially for a sub of this size. And I know the argument is "well, they're higher quality posts", but I really don't think that's the case. Yes, there's less crap to sift through, but that doesn't automatically make what's left "better." For example, once upon a time food drama was rare and delightful when it came up. Now, damn near every day there's some low quality food drama submitted because its one of the few things that always seems to get approved.

I used to come to SRD not only for fun and funny drama, but for deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information. You've completely neutered the latter two while leaving only the fun and funny. And the fun and funny have tried to pick up the slack and stretched themselves so thin that they're no longer fun or funny.

This is all just my opinion and I don't expect a warmer welcome than last time I brought this up (and, thereafter, watched the posts count continue to fall). But I liked SRD, I think it was a useful and thought provoking subreddit filled with discussion that was on a higher intellectual level than the default subs but covered the same topics. I want to see things go back to that.

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[–]ravencrowed 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why would anyone bother to do a decent drama write-up if they thought there was a chance their post could get deleted?

Also, SRd is so boring these days. the linked "drama" is mainly just people having minor arguments

[–]Theta_Omega 21ポイント22ポイント  (3子コメント)

Maybe the mods should just outright ban all surplus drama. They don't seem to want it at all, and I feel like there isn't a great deal of consistency on what's removed and what isn't (I see surplus stuff getting removed that has tons of comments in the submission, and other surplus stuff being kept that links to tiny threads). That way, the people that want to read that type of stuff can split off to their own subreddit or whatever and SRD can go on in whatever direction they feel like..

[–]elfa82 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Most surplus content is already posted on circlebroke or SRS, so if that's the crap you like those subs are where you want to go. The number of comments is not the only criteria for what is or what is not allowed. To allow surplus drama, we need something extraordinary from the usual. Sometimes we miss surplus that should be removed due to being away from the sub, but for the most part we are trying to be consistent and actually prior to posting the announcement sat down and discussed how to be more consistent.

[–]Theta_Omega 19ポイント20ポイント  (0子コメント)

To allow surplus drama, we need something extraordinary from the usual

Maybe you should do a better job of explaining what counts as "extraordinary from the usual" then? Like, my first guess is that there's an "in the news" aspect to it, but it's clearly not that, because I've seen threads related to new stories removed and stuff rehashing ongoing arguments allowed. And it's not the intensity of the argument that determines things either. Those seem like they would be the first two criteria most people would use, which might be why you're still getting more surplus than you'd like.

[–]Card-nal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously. If you want to whine about how people don't give a shit about your intersectional identity politics, go to one of the dozen subs that exist for solely that reason.

[–]sanguine_song 24ポイント25ポイント  (8子コメント)

What seems weird to me is that mods themselves often grandstand and point out bad behavior. Here's a comment by a mod on why /r/MensLib Is bad:

https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/548aon/when_rmenslib_trends_the_popcorn_never_ends/d7zprxh/

There's even the dreaded criticism of reddit.

And you know what? That kicked off a nice discussion. The only thing is, the same mod would remove the comment if it came from the other side.

[–]TNBK 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

I think you're leaping to conclusions just as much as the people saying "Oh jeez, guess these means I can't post my opinions on anything anymore THANKS MODS" As eve mentioned, if you have experiences you want to share in a productive good faith way that sparks productive good faith conversations(that aren't "DAE Reddit???"), I can't imagine that being removed as grandstanding. Unless someone wants to greenhat me and say differently?

[–]sanguine_song 20ポイント21ポイント  (3子コメント)

All criticism of default reddit as a whole seems to get removed, regardless of effort or good faith.

In fact, this brings up another question. The mods have actually encouraged people to have more fun in the past. Low effort shitposting is in every thread and the mods are okay with it. It happens a lot in communist drama. If it's surplus drama though, low effort jokes are vehemently discouraged and now you say comments on drama like that has to be productive discussions only. Why suck the joy out of it?

[–]TNBK 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

If it's surplus drama though, low effort jokes are vehemently discouraged

I don't think by the mod team, necessarily. Surplus drama attracted /r/circlebroke comments, which naturally turned into low effort /r/circlebroke2 comments. If everyone could post jokey low effort in-good-fun comments without strong feelings attached I think the mods would be delighted. But what the current atmosphere is, jokey low effort comments are never made to be fun. They're made with really strong feelings attached and a really strong jerk in a certain direction. Which isn't really fun at all.

So if the mods are encouraging low effort comments in certain situations, I suspect they're trying to move away from that. SRD is, again, not the place to criticize default reddit.

[–]sanguine_song 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, I think it's impossible for a sub to somehow not jerk on one side when the other side is being stupid. No sub has achieved true neutrality. How would that even work? "This incel says women should use him as a dildo but my strong feelings that tell me that this is ridiculous will probably make my joke sound too circlebrokey so I better not. In fact, why not consider the other side. Could using incel men as Dildos actually improve our economy?"

Also, if you look at SRS etc drama, you have people with strong feelings making jokes that jerk to one side. Look at one of the comments above which mentions shoehorning a joke about microagressions in drama where they were not mentioned at all.

[–]Oxus007 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's on topic. We're cutting down on off topic grandstanding.

It would be removed if there was genderwars grandstanding on say, Spider-Man drama.

Samr explains it well here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/5ac5qy/srd_psa_were_going_to_start_being_harder_on/d9fhc4v/?st=iuyan6ew&sh=c06c70fb

[–]sanguine_song 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well if we can point out bad behavior in the relevant post, I think concerns about off topic grandstanding are way, way overblown.

[–]OgirYensa 15ポイント16ポイント  (26子コメント)

I'm still a bit confused because the surplus rule is pretty inconsistent. My submission here

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/59aw14/runcensorednews_gets_in_touch_with_its_dramatic/

Was removed for being biased but there wasn't any explanation for why it was biased. On the same day, this direct surplus link was left up

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/59bro8/members_of_rdnd_roll_for_initiative_when_one_user/

Even though its a rule that surplus drama shouldn't be linked to directly. I actually pointed this out in a PM to the mods but got no reply. My post was removed while one which was objectively breaking rules was kept.

On a slightly related note. Communism drama should count as surplus now, shouldn't it?

[–]Theta_Omega 14ポイント15ポイント  (14子コメント)

On a slightly related note. Communism drama should count as surplus now, shouldn't it?

Yeah, this is another thing that seemed a little weird to me. Communism drama seemed to be popping up a lot for a while there, and most often in relation to political drama and social justice drama, but apparently was deemed not those? Which is fine, but it made the surplus rule kinda confusing, because it seemed like other submissions intersecting with those issues but still distinct in other ways were still getting removed anyway.

[–]diyorgasmsshiptoaster 10ポイント11ポイント  (8子コメント)

It wouldn't surprise me if it has something to do with the /r/drama crew having some ongoing feud with leftists that the commie drama is allowed to stay.

[–]riemann1413 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

LOL

[–]DSylvian -5ポイント-4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh FFS

[–]2k16throwaway 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

I mean... he's got a point

[–]DSylvian 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

If he thinks there some sort of cabal colluding to allow commie drama, he's a dumbshit.

[–]2k16throwaway 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're making it sound like some big ass conspiracy theory. The /r/drama crew IS having a feud with leftists. This isn't news. It's not a conspiracy. They just don't like leftists.

[–]DSylvian 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Right, but the dude was saying that the reason SRD mods aren't banning commie drama was to make the drama users happy. Which is stupid.

[–]diyorgasmsshiptoaster 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

k

[–]GrabEmByThePalossand -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

says the commie

[–]Card-nal 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Communism isn't nearly as mocked and derided as fascism is, so what's your beef?

[–]Theta_Omega 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Not being the most derided whatever isn't really a good argument; for example, the initial complaints that led to surplus drama were about the proliferation of Gamergate drama and how "samey" it all felt, but that didn't stop social justice and FPH drama from getting labeled surplus as well (not to mention that political drama is already surplus anyway, but whatever).

In any case, it felt like for a while we were getting drama every day or two about the same subject involving the same two or three people to the point where people could predict who was being linked to, and the comments were pretty circlejerky. That seems like everything mods have used in the past to label something surplus. That it wasn't makes me even less clear on what makes something surplus and what type of surplus drama is allowed, and the rules on that already seem extremely confusing as is.

[–]Card-nal 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Stop grandstanding about shit that belongs in SRS or CB2. If you'd post it there, don't post it in SRD.

There's your rule of thumb.

As I posted elsewhere here:

If you want to whine about how people don't give a shit about your intersectional identity politics, go to one of the dozen subs that exist for solely that reason.

[–]Theta_Omega 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Stop grandstanding about shit that belongs in SRS or CB2. If you'd post it there, don't post it in SRD.

My post was entirely about what qualifies as surplus and what doesn't. I pointed out that there was a lot of drama for a specific topic where it was the same content every time involving the same people and the comments were samey and it fell under an existing surplus heading and it wasn't labeled surplus for some reason. Not sure why you pulled the grandstanding rules into it.

[–]Card-nal 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

My post was entirely about what qualifies as surplus and what doesn't.

Grandstanding about dumb shit that should go on CB or SRS. That counts as surplus. There ya go.

That's what it boils down to and that's all you need to know:

"Would this get upvoted on one of those shit subs? Then I'll post it there instead. Would it not interest them because it's not about identity politics or being super progressive or about how horrible people who aren't super progressive are? Then I'll post it here."

[–]IAmAN00bie 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

On a slightly related note. Communism drama should count as surplus now, shouldn't it?

That and IMO any /r/relationships and /r/legaladvice drama should automatically be flaired "possible troll."

[–]bethlookner/r/316cats shill 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

The second link isn't surplus. It's fat drama.

[–]OgirYensa 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wait, what? Fat drama was included in the surplus drama announcement. See the flair here:

https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/3k7x22/fat_drama_in_rrelationships_can_hormones_mess/

The comments in the DnD post manage to shoehorn in microaggressions but no one seemed bothered about off topic grandstanding then.

It's just weird that my post was removed for vague reasons that don't hold up while an objectively rule breaking post was left up despite my PM.

[–]bethlookner/r/316cats shill -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

That thread was from September 2015. We introduced our policies re: surplus NYE 2015.

[–]superiority 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

The first surplus drama rules were introduced early October 2015.

Fat drama was added as a surplus category in December 2015, and is retained as a category in this announcement from February. It's been in the sidebar until you removed it just now.

If fat drama has been removed as a surplus category, shouldn't that be included in the currently stickied announcement?

[–]OgirYensa 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

So someone went back and flaired it? Anyway here's one from 2 months ago :

https://np.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/4ylsa4/a_user_in_rweighlifting_calls_an_olympic/

The DnD post had comments off topic grandstanding but they were jerking more towards the SRSsuckey side and were left up.

[–]IAmAN00bie 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

Why isn't it? Fat drama is very clearly a SJ issue. Hell, the linked thread has several comments about political correctness, SJWs, and somehow even a comment about Anita Sarkeesian.

[–]bethlookner/r/316cats shill -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

shrugs meh

what's done is done

[–]IAmAN00bie 13ポイント14ポイント  (2子コメント)

I mean... it's not like you guys are Congress, you could just add it to the list tomorrow if you wanted to.

[–]elfa82 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah but FPH is gone, so no one cares anymore. Fat drama is pretty rare now unless it's a fph satellite sub

[–]superiority 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

But... the surplus drama rules that restricted fat drama posts were first created many months after the Fattening.

[–]riemann1413 9ポイント10ポイント  (55子コメント)

useful and thought provoking subreddit filled with discussion that was on a higher intellectual level than the default subs

LOL

[–]KingOfWewladia 40ポイント41ポイント  (51子コメント)

Honestly you're one of the worst things to happen to SRD. You and zach are filling up just about every thread with worthless shitposts and low effort circlejerking like you'd rather SRD be /drama.

[–][deleted] 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Riemann, there's just something I don't like about you, and I can't put my finger on it.

I believe it has something to do with you being a regular /r/drama commentor while not having any redeeming qualities whatsoever. You're not smart, you're not funny, you're not edgy. You think you're one of us, but you aren't, and you never will be. You bring nothing to the discussion. You're like a dead snake lying on the beach with flies and insects feasting on its remians. You're just....there, and there's nothing we can do about it. You're a human zombie, and as far as I can tell you're not even an authentic person. My gut feeling is that some higher up is controlling you and several other riemanns. Mindless zombies of the human kind, with no independent thought.No, that's mindless zombies of the riemann kind. Like Katy Perry fans or people who drive Toyota Camrys. And one day that army of riemanns will rise up and revolt against the human kind, turning our once amazing civilization into a wasteland of literal degeneracy.

Hopefully by the time I'm an old man(quite some time before we get to that point)Western society as a whole will have wholly embraced eugenics so that we don't have any more pathetic, soulles riemanns cluttering up this great planet. And hopefully, the exosting riemamns of this world will all have some kind of terrible, possibly deadly misfortune inflicted upon them

[–]80BAIT08 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Ah but you've heard of him. WHO R U EVEN

[–]riemann1413 10ポイント11ポイント  (8子コメント)

I liked SRD, I think it was a useful and thought provoking subreddit filled with discussion that was on a higher intellectual level than the default subs but covered the same topics. I want to see things go back to that.

i'm certain /u/zachums agrees

[–]KingOfWewladia 19ポイント20ポイント  (7子コメント)

Yes, worthless shit like that. Thank you for the demonstration. 🙄

[–]riemann1413 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

hella productive dv brother, i hope it improved your emotional state of affairs

[–]Zachums 9ポイント10ポイント  (38子コメント)

bro, I've been subbed and commenting in SRD for 3+ years. I have no idea who you are.

[–]KingOfWewladia 11ポイント12ポイント  (37子コメント)

So have I, but that's the nice thing about an anonymous platform: you can start over again if you've been doxed.

Anyway, you're not quite as bad as that asshat up there and I should add shitbirds like hammer and ox, but the two of you are far and away the most prolific.

[–]Zachums 18ポイント19ポイント  (12子コメント)

The fact that a sub dedicated to watching people have stupid fights on the internet has a comment section at all is silly, so it's especially funny to me when someone says that my comments are "ruining" it.

[–]KingOfWewladia 12ポイント13ポイント  (11子コメント)

It's not the silly I mind so much as your collective penchant for casual, "ironic" assholery I have an issue with.

[–]Zachums 9ポイント10ポイント  (10子コメント)

Oh, that's def more riemann's flavor. He's a character!

[–]KingOfWewladia 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

You engage in enough of it yourself that you're almost as much a part of the problem as he is.

[–]Zachums 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

I mostly do it for the mods' entertainment. Most of the userbase I could take or leave, honestly.

[–]KingOfWewladia 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of the userbase I could take or leave, honestly.

More leave than take, tbh

[–]riemann1413 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

wow are you calling me an asshole

[–]Zachums 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah.

[–]toiracse 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/ovLu4.gif

[–]riemann1413 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

i mean, wow. just wow. after all i've done for you. i thought we'd die together, old and bearded in PNW. but now you've ruined it

[–]kanyebest100 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

SRD is serious business huh

[–]Hammer_of_truthiness[🍰] 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

O shit I think I know who you are fam o snap. Lucky I totally forgot your handle but weren't you the funny guy with the long posts who got doxxed oh damn bonjouramigos is that you fam what happened you used to be a riot fam why you such a killjoy now?

[–]KingOfWewladia 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not going to talk about my doxed account

[–]riemann1413 3ポイント4ポイント  (18子コメント)

/u/oxus007 /u/hammer_of_truthiness how do you respond to these accusations of shitbirdery

[–]KingOfWewladia 16ポイント17ポイント  (11子コメント)

Probably with the same low standard shitposting you do

[–]Oxus007 3ポイント4ポイント  (10子コメント)

You can go ahead and stop being a dick in here as well as SRD homie. You're obviously an alt of another SRD regular, for all I know you're ban evading, and you already have 4 warnings on this account.

[–]KingOfWewladia 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

Sure thing fam, but tbh if you'd like people to stop being dicks you should ask them to stop doing it "ironically" too.

[–]riemann1413 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

ironic funposting is still funposting

[–]KingOfWewladia 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

We've discussed this before and I've made my opinion of you and your shitposting well clear, so I really have nothing left to say to you.

[–]riemann1413 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

/u/KingOfWewladia BTFO

[–]Hammer_of_truthiness[🍰] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Although I can't say I can truthfully deny /u/KingofWewladia 's assessment of my character, I have to admit the accuracy of it makes it sting all the more.

On the other hand Wewladia-senpai did just notice me so on the whole this bittersweet experience leans ever so slightly more sweet, like an artisnal dark chocolate.

[–]riemann1413 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

What happened in your life that made you decide to shitpost on a drama subreddit?

I mean the kind of shit you post takes effort, and is not something that any productive adult would do in their free time.

[–]Hammer_of_truthiness[🍰] 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Honestly I think the lack of attention my parents gave me during key development periods, coupled with the social ostracism I experienced from my peers gave me an overriding urge to seek validation of my existence in online spaces. Although I considered circlejerking, contrarianposting proved far more effective at garnering a reaction, reassuring me that my words had an impact, even if only on a single web forum.

[–]riemann1413 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

touching, fam. thank you for sharing. i won't bully you like /u/KingOfWewladia would.

[–]Hammer_of_truthiness[🍰] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Thank you for listening and believing, fam. Creating safe and supportive online spaces is incredibly important, and even if regressives like /u/KingofWewladia don't appreciate our work.

[–]ChipChippersonAMA 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let me tell you this

[–]TotesMessengerMeta Kombot 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]terriblegoat 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

laugh it up bitch, we all know what teet you suckle from when you go crying home to papi

[–]riemann1413 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

/r/Drama sucks my teet not the other way around dog

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 4ポイント5ポイント  (65子コメント)

Buenos tardes! Couple things here.

One: we're not actually changing any rules, just reminding you of them. If you want to read UGH REDDITORS AMIRITE forty times in a row, SRS and circlebroke are a click away.

B: our removals are fairly narrow! Our surplus topics are basically "all the same shit that reddit constantly fights about and will fight about until the dawn of the pax robotica". Literally every other topic is available to you. Find arguments about chairs, or poop, or bottled water. Hell, even vegan drama is still welcome.

Lastly: look, we just want SRD to be fun and pleasant. All the surplus topics end up being unfunny and angry and people take them personally and rant and whine and then there's subredditdramadrama and then the mods are all SJW alt-right cuck racists.

I used to come to SRD not only for fun and funny drama, but for deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information.

This is still legit. We just have a slightly higher bar for these posts, because we'd get forty of them a day if we allowed all of them through.

[–]Erra0[S] 36ポイント37ポイント  (38子コメント)

Uno: I'm aware the rules aren't changing, but enforcing them in an even stricter sense is about the same thing and the opposite of what needs to be done to Make SRD Great Again®

Zwei: The list of surplus drama includes such broad topics as race, gender, and now freaking politics. You've barred damn near anything meaningful from being linked to. What's worse is you don't even do so consistently. Hell, I had a pretty successful post about Yuengling beer and politics, but that was left up. And those other subjects are only allowed until they become "surplus". This becomes especially egregious if you never remove things from the surplus list (gamergate, for example). Eventually everything is surplus. Plus, those types of drama are much more specific and much shorter live AND much less interesting! I can only read about steak doneness so many times before its exhausted all entertainment or intellectual value. However politics is a constantly shifting landscape with evolving drama and deep, meaningful impact.

Trois: I get that fun and pleasant is easier to moderate and less of a headache. But its also frivolous, meaningless, and shallow. If that's the overall direction you want to take SRD, that's up to you. But I think its a mistake and its a shame to lose the value that this sub used to represent for reddit as a whole.

Edit: Downvoting the mods is weaksauce, even if you agree with me. I'm calling for more discussion, not the silencing of it.

[–]elfa82 3ポイント4ポイント  (37子コメント)

Politics is surplus only because every sub and every thread on reddit gets bombarded with people wanting to fight about Trump and Hillary. It's tiresome and boring. There's almost zero chance any argument on reddit is going to change someone's political views and a similar chance that any political discussion on reddit will remain civil. While not certain, it's likely that politics will be removed from the surplus rules after the elections are done, as that is the only real political issue that we remove for surplus.

Steak drama while maybe featured here quite a bit isn't really surplus because people aren't fighting about it all over reddit ad nauseum whereas our surplus topics typically cause drama anywhere they are brought up (unless in an echo chamber sub that everyone thinks the same way).

[–]Enibas 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honestly, the election drama is the most fun to be had atm.

[–]Erra0[S] 28ポイント29ポイント  (34子コメント)

I'm just saying there needs to be a balance between moderating surplus drama and letting the sub have content, even if its divisive. SRD is stale and slow now, and I don't see anyone denying that. Sure there's not as much fighting or flaming, but there's more shitposting (looking at you riemann and zachums in damn near every thread) and less content/discussion overall.

Balance isn't going to be achieved by doubling down on these policies.

[–]elfa82 5ポイント6ポイント  (11子コメント)

I get what you're saying, but at the same time we don't want to have the same arguments over and over and over just repeating themselves in SRD. Every thread about surplus topics inevitably turns into people just bringing the drama to SRD. The worst part is these people can't let it alone. Their entire purpose on reddit is to argue about their pet topics. They end up arguing for days on end about the same thing, just going in circles until they resort to name calling or baiting and we end up stepping in to shut them up. The reason the fighting and flaming is reducing is because we've been removing those (as well as certain users that offer nothing but baiting or fighting).

[–]Erra0[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (10子コメント)

Targeted moderating (removing the troublesome users and removing obvious bait posts) are great tools to accomplish what you want. Granted, that's more work for you guys, but I'd rather see more moderators and less blanket bans on subjects. Because while yes, most of those surplus drama threads contained fighting and flaming, they also contained some of the best discussions I've had on reddit. Nothing that comes through now gets to that level of debate. Maybe I should just shut up and go to other subs for that, but I haven't found one yet that doesn't have its own narrative to push or core group of users that dominate discussion.

[–]elfa82 2ポイント3ポイント  (9子コメント)

We still allow surplus, so it's not a blanket ban though.

[–]Erra0[S] 21ポイント22ポイント  (8子コメント)

Fair enough, call it blanket restriction then. The point is the same, however, especially if there's an ongoing push to moderate surplus more and more heavily, as demonstrated by this announcement.

[–]elfa82 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

It's not really a push though. We are just trying to get our users to remember the rules. After CB closed for the summer, many of their users flocked to SRD and forgot to go back. They are posting lots of low effort surplus and breaking the no grandstanding rules enough that we felt we needed a reminder to our users. We also used this time to try to get a better consensus amongst mods so that we can be more consistent regardless of who happens to be looking at the queue.

[–]Erra0[S] 19ポイント20ポイント  (6子コメント)

Then apparently my beef is with the title of the announcement itself:

"We're Going to Start Being Harder on Grandstanding and Surplus Posting"

What part of that doesn't sound like a push for stricter moderation?

[–]Oxus007 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (21子コメント)

SRD is stale and slow now, and I don't see anyone denying that.

No. Many people disagree.

The #1 reason people ever mention SRD and stale together is surplus topics.

[–]cannotnotcomment 19ポイント20ポイント  (20子コメント)

I can't comprehend why you and the other SRD mods think this is a good idea. While the grandstanding rule is stupid insofar as nobody knows what exactly constitutes "grandstanding", similar to reddit's rule against brigading, banning almost all superplus drama threads hasn't made SRD more interesting to most people.

Maybe there are a few people (I guess the SRD mods) who prefer childish steak drama and "funny" slapfights over more serious stuff, the majority of (ex-)subscribers doesn't and many have left the sub. While SRD doesn't allow one to see their traffic stats, it's easy to show anyhow.

This is SRD's front page from precisely one year ago. It's simple to compare it to the to days.

2015 2016
Active users 3,304 793
Oldest thread on the frontpage just over 1 days almost 3 days old

[–]Oxus007 3ポイント4ポイント  (19子コメント)

1) You don't have to post on an alt.

2) You chose a day when Gallowboob was banned. That's like comparing today to when the Fappening hit.

The front page and activity ebbs and flows. If you don't like that Surplus is being limited then take your 0 day alt, and move on to another sub.

[–]cannotnotcomment 13ポイント14ポイント  (14子コメント)

1) You don't have to post on an alt.

I can choose to, and it my argument still stands. No need to be so aggressive about it.

2) You chose a day when Gallowboob was banned. That's like comparing today to when the Fappening hit.

Here's just some random day from September of last year. 1,316 active users. And another. 1,161 active users.

If you're so sure about SRD not loosing traffic, make your traffic stats public. It's literally one click in the subreddit settings. But I assume you keep them private precisely because they would support what I'm saying.

Unrelated but wtf. Edit: I'm dumb and didn't look at the date.

[–]Oxus007 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

We've had the same pageviews and uniques this month as we had in January February 2016, we had the same pageviews in May of 2016 as the end of summer 2015.

Doing just fine.

[–]IAmAN00bie 15ポイント16ポイント  (8子コメント)

We've had the same pageviews and uniques this month as we had in January 2016, we had the same pageviews in May of 2016 as the end of summer 2015.

Looking at the traffic stats, I'm not seeing that. Pageviews this month are down nearly 900,000 comparing Oct. 2016 and Jan. 2016. Can't compare this May and last summer from Reddit's traffic stats, though. Not disagreeing with the rule update, but the publicly available traffic stats don't back up your statement.

[–]cannotnotcomment 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

We've had the same pageviews and uniques this month as we had in January 2016, we had the same pageviews in May of 2016 as the end of summer 2015.

I don't believe that, because while it would be easy to prove, you choose not to. There are obviously fewer threads with fewer comments nowadays.

[–]jbkjam 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

Tone set. Gonna tell anyone else who don't like the new rules to fuck off as well.

[–]Oxus007 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Just cowardly 0 day alts.

[–]hypnozooiddukbcaaj alt 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Serious question - how on Earth are you still a moderator here? You're almost comically bad at it, you're nearly universally hated, and though I doubt you're capable of realizing it you do not, in fact, know better than the community you moderate as to what that community wants. Shit, just look at how you're being downvoted in this thread - that's not people saying that they disagree with what you're saying, that's people saying that they disagree with you as a person. That's a whole bunch of people who didn't even care about the "drama" you're linking, they just wanted to send you a quick "go fuck yourself".

I get that some people live such pathetically unrewarding lives that the minor imitation power they get from moderating a mediocre subreddit makes things worthwhile to them, but at this point, isn't it embarrassing? I mean, is the tiny little high you get from deleting any comments critical of you and your ideas really worth the shame that you ought to be feeling in knowing that the most popular thing that you could possibly do at this point would be to delete your account? What's the point?

So, yeah. Go ahead and delete this comment now, as well as Sisko's above, and the countless other comments that will no doubt pop up over the rest of the week pointing out what a fucktarded idea this megathread bullshit that you've arbitrarily decided to force on the sub is. Turn this into the same desolate graveyard we had last week, with your Baghdad Bob-esque "no guys the megathread totally works see I'm even linking drama" comment buried under hundreds of [deleted]s. Won't change the fact that you're a fucking horrible moderator a single iota.

[–]Hayleycakes2009 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There's almost zero chance any argument on reddit is going to change someone's political views and a similar chance that any political discussion on reddit will remain civil.

That is so true. I wish everybody realized that

[–]buartha 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

even vegan drama is welcome

Educating carnivores isn't drama, it's a calling.

[–]Oxus007 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I used to come to SRD not only for fun and funny drama, but for deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information.

I did as well for certain topics.

Unfortunately if you read through almost any of the big surplus topics, you'll find a wasteland of fighting and smug. Not any serious, or even really fun discussions.

Hopefully this reminder dials that smug and fighting down, and people have room to actually talk again.

[–]syllabic 1ポイント2ポイント  (22子コメント)

Lol it's legitimately your fault for what SRD turned into. The reason you have so much trouble changing the nature of the sub is that you are the cancer that killed it in the first place.

[–]TotesMessengerMeta Kombot 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 0ポイント1ポイント  (20子コメント)

if I were really cancer, I'd get the wow mod we have on staff to ban you :P

[–]syllabic 13ポイント14ポイント  (17子コメント)

Yes that nauseating cliqueish mentality is a big part of the reason you keep having to make threads like this. You wanted to be the most popular poweruser on the site so you buddied up with some of the more obnoxious cliques around. And then they set up residence in your newly modded sub and the rest is history.

So keep making the same mistakes if you like this sisyphean struggle.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 3ポイント4ポイント  (16子コメント)

?????

ok dude, whatever

[–]syllabic 3ポイント4ポイント  (15子コメント)

I think its funny that you immediately run to my post history to find something you can use against me. And then try to flaunt your big reddit dick showing off your connections and mod power in a jokey threatening way.

Maybe you and the smuglords in SRD deserve each other. Deep down you know Im right.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

deep down, I know you've constructed a narrative about me that I won't be able to pierce. so you do you.

[–]syllabic 13ポイント14ポイント  (10子コメント)

Narrative? You literally just did go through my comment history then make some asinine comment to show off your e-peen. It just a few comments up.

I was there when SRD went down the tubes. I remember how it went down. And I saw the writing on the wall shortly afterwards and now I don't post there anymore. You changed the tone of the sub when you got modded, and it's been that way ever since. I'm surprised you haven't given up modding it at this point. I'd imagine it's pretty aggravating.

[–]TAKEitTOrCIRCLEJERK 6ポイント7ポイント  (7子コメント)

pardon me, /u/oxus007 is the resident tonesetter in the building tyvm

[–]syllabic 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yeah and you only even needed to bring him on because you fucked things up so badly by yourself

[–]everybodosoangry 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

Unfunny circle jerking like this is getting pretty old

[–]shitlordcaligula 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was there when SRD went down the tubes. I remember how it went down. And I saw the writing on the wall shortly afterwards and now I don't post there anymore.

t'was a sad day in redditland. you have my deepest sympathies.

[–]bethlookner/r/316cats shill -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

what the fuck? I've been a mod here for over a year and I've yet to see tits's e-peen.

I'm super jealous

[–]StopTalkingOK -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

"on staff"

[–]Deefian 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I used to come to SRD not only for fun and funny drama, but for deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information.

Okay, first of all, el oh fucking el. SRD just points and laughs at drama. Secondly, circlebroke(2) and ShitRedditSays seem like they're more your thing. The surplus rules are explicitly put in place to prevent SRD from getting too circlebroke-y.

[–]bethlookner/r/316cats shill -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

this guy gets it!

Also, hi

[–]Card-nal 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information

If any response in such a discussion doesn't boil down to sufficiently "Reddit isn't progressive enough", it's downvoted to oblivion. Since that's obviously absurd, the mods seem to just want to do away with it in general.

If you want a discussion about how reddit is responding to stuff from a very progressive standpoint, there's circlebroke for that. Or CB2. Or negareddit. Or SRS. And so on.

If you want a discussion without it revolving around identity politics and how inexcusable it is that people aren't super progressive, maybe try TheoryofReddit or something.

[–]Zachums -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

I used to come to SRD not only for fun and funny drama, but for deep discussions and news on how reddit itself was reacting to any particular bit of information.

If you are not shitposting in comments then you are doing it wrong. Reevaluate yourself.

[–]toiracse 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

http://i.imgur.com/71DmMgs.jpg

[–]riemann1413 0ポイント1ポイント  (9子コメント)

I liked SRD, I think it was a useful and thought provoking subreddit filled with discussion that was on a higher intellectual level than the default subs but covered the same topics. I want to see things go back to that.

[–]Erra0[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

If the only thing that comes of this post is a tiny bit of copypasta for your enjoyment riemann, it was worth it.

[–]Zachums -4ポイント-3ポイント  (7子コメント)

See, the shitposting continues. Keep it up!

[–]riemann1413 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

that's my secret, cap'n