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Ashley Madison (self.TheRedPill)

lulguard が 投稿

TL;DR Media perpetuates the myth that no women existed on AM. It feeds and reassures men that 'their' women couldn't be fucking chad.

I see this narrative in media that there were no 'real' women on AM, and I am so sick and tired of this. Its based on measuring activity of users on AM and figuring out that given the low activity of female profiles on AM compared to male profiles that those female profiles are fake.

That's just bullshit.

If you looked at Pinterest you did statistical analysis on them on activity level you would come to the conclusion that almost all Pinterest male accounts are fake.

Male and females have different behaviors on different platforms and you cannot generalise activity level as an indicator that the profile is fake. The closest way to approximately that would be to look at activity level of females on sites like POF, Tinder, etc. and compare that to AM.

However media (and men) lap this narrative up that AM had no females. It reassures and perpetuates the myth.

How do I know this? I work for a huge (100k+) employee company. I downloaded the data and I was able to identify dozens of everyday coworker/women who used their work email ID to sign up for the service. And no we are not talking Jane.Doe@workplace.com type generic emails, we are talking JaDoe@workplace.com email IDs.

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[–]Philhelm 35ポイント36ポイント  (1子コメント)

What's funny is that I would be willing to bet money that most of the men on the site were single, thirsty men thinking they might be able to get some tang from a bored housewife.

[–]tomysotomayorfuxboys 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, I think a lot of the men on dating sites in general are men with wives and gf's looking to get some extra ass on the side. Women who do internet dating probably get used for easy sex by men who are out of their league, and who aren't interested in relationships because they already have partners.

[–][削除されました]  (18子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Isle_P_Bach 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Why would they spend money on a site, when they could walk outside and get it for free.

    They weren't paying. AM's business model basically created a free-for-all for sloots. Women were not the ones paying for credits to initiate contact with potential partners.

    This is one of the reasons why this hack is so lite on information about female users. It's not simply because a large number of female accounts were fake, or that the place had significantly more male users. Unless someone was unfortunate enough to have communicated identifying information in their profile or on-site1. messages (or associated their account with an identifiable e-mail), the only way to ID them is through the billing information.

    This is where all of the people getting busted so far have been found out. While the hack doesn't have any CC #'s, it does have billing info associated with cards used.

    edit- 1. Given the billing model of AM, users tended to move conversations "off site" in a hurry - lest they get stuck burning through $$. Apparently the photo data in the user profiles was also hacked, but this data has not been released as of yet - and may never be, as it would be a monstrous amount of data to distribute anonymously. But I think such material would demonstrate that the meme of there being "no real women on AM" is vastly exaggerated.

    [–]Endorsed Contributorstonepimpletilists 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Thats been everyones business model for centuries.

    Ladies night? Guys? 50 dollar cover

    [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]Isle_P_Bach 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Ah ok. I was under the impression you had to pay just to get access.

      Understandable, but their revenue format was actually quite clever given the sort of site they were running. Like nightspots, AM knew women were there draw, and that they don't like paying for shit. Their revenue came from suckers (men) buying bundles of credits, which could be used to contact other users (women.)

      If a woman using AM was even the least bit cagey, she wouldn't have to part with much in the way of identifying info. Maybe a postal code (if they bothered to put in their exact one), or an IP address. Even whatever photos that may have been hosted on the site were likely not overly identifying. As subreddits like "gonewild" demonstrate, women may be willing to show their asshole to strangers, but usually not their face.

      [–]DaphneDK 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      If you're not paying, you're the product. Women were the product, men the consumers. AM the pimp. Does it still exist, or did the hack take them down?

      [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]Meglomaniac 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

        I think you dont understand the context here. No one is saying women arnt on there, but more that the owner was dishonest and was creating thousands of fake accounts to get people interested.

        The context is "the accounts are fake!" not that "women were not cheating!"

        [–]cavtrpr 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The women's accounts were likely fake.

        Women do cheat, they just don't need to be on a easily hacked site to do so. Women fear social sanctions, they don't want their face and kinks plastered all over the internet. The Miley Cyrus's, paris Hiltons and Kim Kardashians of the world are exceptions not the rule.

        [–]Endorsed Contributorstonepimpletilists 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

        those women tended to happen upon OKC, POF, or most likely facebook.

        [–]Endorsed Contributorvandaalen 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

        This argument gets spit around here very often in the last time and frankly I don't think that it has the impact you would wish it would have.

        Why would a woman go on such website? For the same reason that millions of chumps join all the dating sites: lower entry barriers.

        You can safely "just have a look" from you desk, before you decide to jump into the action. For women those sites are just big malls where they shop for dick. On some more explicit sites (like the German site "http://www.joyclub.com), bitches will even openly state shit like that in their profiles to remind chumps to not even bother annoying them with their attention.

        Remember? They want the best they can possibly get and not every woman is an 8 or 9. If they just go out to a bar, chances are that they will only be approached by low value guys, or what they percieve to be such, while on a dating site, they can take all their time to check the profiles of guys who contacted them, or they will actively try to make contact with high value chads.

        [–]Endorsed Contributorstonepimpletilists 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        The difficulty on cheating for women has never been about access, or capability. It's been about hashing a narrative that

        1. makes her the victim of circumstance.

        2. blames the entire situation on you

        3. enables her to create a narrative for the above that others can have cognitive dissonance and agree with.

        Female social matrix, extended to your feelings of fidelity

        [–]razorwan 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Why would they spend money on a site

        Because it grants you anonymity and a streamlined way to cheat. If you go to a bar, club, etc. you're showing your face around, and you risk being caught out. If you organize everything online, anonymously, you don't need to put yourself at these risks.

        Granted, I agree with the general premise of what you're saying.

        [–]1KyfhoMyoba 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Why would they spend money on a site, when they could walk outside and get it for free.

        Women did not have to spend any money on AM. Only the men did.

        [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

        Sometimes Instacart doesn't deliver the kind of sausage they're looking for. If you think in terms of 'sites', you are thinking they go sit on a computer. Girls love apps, yo.

        [–][deleted] 27ポイント28ポイント  (5子コメント)

        I'd say if anything it just proved that women don't need a website to carry out their affairs.

        [–]RPSigmaStigma 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

        Or don't need them for long. Men obviously have more activity because it takes more work and time for men to get dates in general. A woman only needs to make an account and can find a man within 10 minutes. A man might go days, weeks or even months before getting a date.

        [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]RPSigmaStigma 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It's true on all dating sites, but especially true on AM. Single women have a laundry list a mile long for the men they'll date, but for an affair partner, he just has to be hot.

          [–]S74RK 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

          TL;DR Media perpetuates the myth that no women existed on AM.

          Interesting, I never thought of that. However, that thesis (no women on AM) had some evidence to it:

          http://gizmodo.com/almost-none-of-the-women-in-the-ashley-madison-database-1725558944

          The most supportive data seems to be: 20 million men checked their messages on the site, while only 1500 (!) women supposedly did. I'm assuming one needs to check their messages to get a phone number and eventually meet up to commit the act. Ditto for 11 million men using the messaging system, versus only 2400 women.

          Assuming this data is correct, I don't see why their hypothesis is wrong (that women don't use AM).

          Has anyone verified or falsified the above data, from the actual list? Frankly I think it's more reliable than OP's anecdote. Statistics is a fickle thing, who knows why OP found "dozens" of female accounts from his workplace. Government jobs are known for being boring as fuck, and could have a higher proportion of people cheating on their spouses. AM is a Canadian company, maybe there's a higher concentration there if OP works in Canada (especially Ottawa).

          If you looked at Pinterest you did statistical analysis on them on activity level you would come to the conclusion that almost all Pinterest male accounts are fake.

          That's not what matters here. What matters is whether women used the site to find Chads behind their husband's back via AM. Activity patterns provide the best indicator of this. Ditto to how (lack of) male activity levels on Pinterest would show that women are by far the primary target market.

          Anyways, the point is we should try our best to be objective about data rather than assume whatever hypothesis fits the current dogma ("mainstream media wants to make women seem innocent, it's all men trying to cheat, but I know lots of married women found their Chads on AM").

          Isn't trying to find the truth more interesting than reinforcing existing beliefs? I don't know what the truth is. But I do know that the OP has not provided any evidence falsifying what I found to be the current best analysis of the situation. Maybe women really didn't use the site, because Real Life (TM) is convenient enough, because only married beta males tried using AM, etc. Maybe the OP is right and there's a big cover up by the MSM. Who knows.

          But this is an actual case where rigorous data analysis and logic can be used to dissect the truth, so we might as well try to do that.

          [–]tomysotomayorfuxboys 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

          Internet dating, in general, is a wiener-fest. If a website is geared towards casual sex, the penile predominance with be magnified 7-fold. Basically, internet dating is fake and gay. There may be some women online, but many of those are unattractive and older women with baggage and massive entitlement. Basically, I can get much more attractive women IRL. Paying for a porn site is a better investment than paying for a dating site, because at least with porn I get a reliable product for my money.

          [–][deleted] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Upvote because you made an interesting observation:

          Internet dating, in general, is a wiener-fest. If a website is geared towards casual sex, the penile predominance with be magnified 7-fold.

          I've had the most online success with the most traditional dating sites (eg. OkCupid and my own trove of non-dating boards). Your comment made me come up with the ASDt coefficient: the overtness of a site for hooking up vs. traditional dating like AM=7, Tinder=4, POF=2, OKC=1.5, IRL=1 multipliers of ASD-triggering (the t in ASDt).

          A girl's willingness to progress through the funnel (register, exchange message, pay money?, meet up, tell her friends/"go viral") of such sites will be some function of her SMV, the site's ASDt, and the man's SMV.

          Given this relation, you could calculate your expected partner SMV relative to your own SMV for a given source of 'tang.

          [–]Glenbert 10ポイント11ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Internet dating, in general, is a wiener-fest.

          Tinder is the first time that any of my remotely alpha friends have used any sort of dating service of any kind.

          As I watch this AM thing unfold I'm most amused by what it really is: a bunch of betas being shamed for their failed attempts to hack their SMV.

          [–]squirrelcuisine 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Quite possibly the best comment in this thread buried right here.

          [–]LuvBeer 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I'm close to 40 and I got my dick sucked by two 19 year olds from "fake and gay" dating sites. One swallowed, the other I'm still in contact with after a year. You shouldn't replace real-life approaching with online, but once your profile is up it sells itself and you can get some easy, quality lays. I view online like having a side job to augment your main income stream.

          [–]Way_Of_Man 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Basically, internet dating is fake and gay.

          Well respected manosphere writers have touted a lot of success in online dating for getting laid. A close friend of mine who just ended a 4 year LTR has been doing double time at the gym and is exclusively getting laid via online sites. Just because your mileage may vary doesn't make something "fake and gay"

          [–]deserthockey31 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I personally have much more luck IRL than with Tinder.

          [–]Isle_P_Bach 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          There may be some women online, but many of those are unattractive and older women with baggage and massive entitlement.

          That was pretty much AM (and similar "alt lifestyle" sites) in general - a sausage fest that gave even the most mediocre looking middle-aged broads an inflated sense of self worth.

          It turns out desperate guys will fuck anything with a pulse. As we're all aware, most women make wildly incorrect inferences from this sort of behavior.

          [–]1favours_of_the_moon 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

          TL;DR Media perpetuates the myth that no women existed on AM. It feeds and reassures men that 'their' women couldn't be fucking chad.

          It also promotes the idea that men are desperate fools, grasping at empty straws, unsatisfied.

          [–][deleted] 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Repost of my earlier post:

          Actually, I remember seeing a post from a woman who said she worked for the AshleyMadison cheating site. She claimed to be an employee (who knows if that part is true, idk), and was explaining to people why there was such a massive percentage of men on the site. Apparently, her girl friends were pretty much the same as the men on AshleyMadison. The difference, she said, why they would never join a cheating site, is because they didn't consider themselves to be cheating. Oh sure, they had an emotional affair, and had drinks with a guy, and ended up blowing him, but that's not cheating! That's just being friendly followed by one little mistake! They just needed a bit of attention! Really it's not a big deal like cheating! /s

          That explanation for the gender gap on cheating sites actually made a ton of sense to me. Firstly, it's the excuse every romcom with a cheating wife uses. She cheated? Oh, what a wacky harmless lapse of judgment!

          Second, it's basically the same excuse my exgf gave when I found out she was looking for other guys on the internet. She said literally looking for an emotional affair isn't cheating. It's just necessary because she needs more attention. >_>

          TLDR; People who cheat, without considering themselves cheaters, are obviously not going to join a site that labels itself as a place for cheaters.

          [–]DaphneDK 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Actually, I remember seeing a post from a woman who said she worked for the AshleyMadison cheating site. She claimed to be an employee (who knows if that part is true, idk), and was explaining to people why there was such a massive percentage of men on the site.

          I knew a girl who worked for one of the Russia/Ukrainian dating sites. Got paid to chat with American men. They had a script and everything on how to drag on the conversation, to get the suckers to pay more.

          [–]cutegirlsthrowaway 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

          It's believed that the data the hackers released was cherry-picked to make Ashley Madison look terrible and one way they did that was by giving the impression that very few women used the service. In reality, several women have admitted to using the service but were unable to find their name in the data

          [–]ioncloud9 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Most women that have asked me seem to have a hard time believing the experiences of men and women on dating sites is different. They go there and just show up and get hundreds of messages a day. If men want to be successful against that onslaught they need to send out tons to get a few replies. Its the same with Tinder. Women need to just show up and swipe right and they will have a +90% chance to match with anybody.

          That being said, I think AM or really any dating site needs a certain number of fake profiles initially to lure men into paying for it. But I dont think 99% of them were fake.

          [–]CHAD_J_THUNDERCOCK 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          I looked through that data myself extensively. About 1% were women.

          [–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Haha, right? There's zero chance that the article claiming that the women on AshleyMadison were fake is actually honest. It's damage control riding through the Women are Wonderful Effect.

          [–]jconnor0426 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Why not go download the data and do your own experiments, or recreate the ones that the article did?

          [–]willd58 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

          Was it just email addresses, or were they paid accounts?

          I ask because spam bots were entering email addresses to sign up to AM with no need for any kind of verification, actual true members should really only be counted on by the people who used a credit card for a months membership.

          I could for instance sign up as obama@president.com using his email address, doesn't mean he was ever a member, but his email would come up on the list.

          [–]lulguard[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Women don't have to pay to play on AM. Secondly these are not Obama@WhiteHouse.gov kind of public account, the ones I saw from my company are literally JoDoe11@company.com which unless their coworkers were trolling them have no reason to be up there

          [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

          [removed]

            [–]PlanB_pedofile 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It's a real sausage fest out there because online dating brings out all the betas whom don't have the courage to approach in real life.

            Women hit up online dating for validation and looking for alphas.

            A place like Ashley Madison offered nothing to women because women could stroll onto Facebook for their hookup affairs

            [–]zephyrprime 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            They measured it based on how many women opened their email box. Women who had opened their email box ever were outnumbered 14285 to 1. Sounds like a pretty reasonable way to determine how many of the female accounts were real to me.

            [–]holybad 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            women need plausible deniability. they will never go to site that is exclusivly for hook ups or cheating cause if they are on a site like that, it's obvious what they are there for. they need to be able i wasn't there for X i was just there for Y. That's why sites like Okcupid and POF have more women and even why Tinder ( a site originally for hook ups only) has been muddied with tons of women saying "swipe left if your looking for ONS". It's not that dont want hook up up or to cheat but they wont go near agency and that's what they have to take up if they go to sites like AM.

            [–]1max_peenor 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            No one is saying there are ZERO women on there. The number is just hilariously low. Likewise, the number of male accounts are sort of inflated too. I have one on there with completely fake info purely for trolling purposes. There is no telling how many women have accounts just too fish for their SO and mate guard. What matters is how many of men actually paid them money and how many non-shill women sent messages. Everything else is bullshit. When viewed like this--it is an epic sausage party.

            [–]Endorsed Contributorstonepimpletilists -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

            For all intents a purposes, no women did exist there. It's a savvy business man who found a niche (BP men in lives of desperation) and capitalized on it, with the idea that they are fuckable, and I can help you get some strange on the side while your harpie wife is none the wiser.

            As for the media, who cares? it's just you witnessing the bias of another demographic... the days of the news being the facts of the world are over, if they ever were here