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My [24F] white American [25M] boyfriend insists he's as Irish as it gets. It's driving me crazy & everyone is making fun of it.Relationships (self.relationships)

parrieparrie が 投稿

My boyfriend 'Adam' is a white guy born and raised in America. His grandparents on his mom's side and great-grandparents on his dad's side immigrated from Ireland. Since then, no one in his family has been back to Ireland. They have some relatives remaining there, but distant enough that they hardly know one another. Don't speak Gaelic or anything.

I'm Pakistani and have a strong connection with the culture even though I was raised in America because my parents were born & raised in Pakistan, I speak fluent Urdu, have visited family there many times, parents insisted we stay close to the culture, and trust me when I say - White America never lets me forget I'm brown.

I guess he saw this and wanted a foreign culture for himself? I don't even know. Basically woke up one day a few months ago and decided to 'embrace his Irish heritage'. He started off with researching Ireland and talking to his Irish-born grandma. Started telling me fun facts and whatnot about Ireland. No problem there. Then progressed to taking a trip to Dublin. Came back 2 weeks later saying "it wasn't I expected, but I'm glad I saw my homeland!" Did some more research. Told me he supported the IRA. Bitchwhatthefuck. So on and so forth for the past 4 or 5 months, culminating in last week when he decided to get a fucking Irish flag tattooed on his bicep.

It's honestly so embarrassing. My (Pakistani) cousins & siblings all liked him before he started on his hardcore Irish stuff but now make fun of him. His friends think it's a joke too. And he talks about "it was so difficult for my people to be told that Irish need not apply, etc." and it's like yeah you're right but...that's not your people. I mean it is technically but not realistically. He also claims that he's experienced 'equal' racism for being 'Irish' as I have for being Pakistani. Also that "I'm just as Irish as you are Pakistani". When he went to Ireland, actual Irish people in Dublin made fun of him when he claimed to be just as Irish as them, but he continues! What do I say to him to get him to see sense?

tl;dr: Whitebread American boyfriend is obsessed with being seen as Irish, everyone around us thinks it's pathetic. What do I say to him?

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[–]wangsupreme 166ポイント167ポイント  (11子コメント)

This is called "McGregor Syndrome". There's a lot of this going around right now.

[–]parrieparrie[S] 90ポイント91ポイント  (2子コメント)

Oh yeah and McGregor is his favorite UFC fighter. How did I forget that.

[–]Digatlism2 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

To be fair, McGregor is my favourite UFC fighter too and I'm not even remotely Irish (or American). Or like UFC. That dude's just badass.

[–]ACE-Shellshocked 30ポイント31ポイント  (7子コメント)

Can you explain that to me? I tried looking it up but all I got was stuff on Batman.

[–]wangsupreme 111ポイント112ポイント  (3子コメント)

Conor McGregor is an Irish MMA fighter who is the biggest fighter in the world right now. Actual Irish, not some-ancestor-came-from-Ireland-on-a-boat Irish.

Since he exploded onto the scene, it seems like every guy with pasty skin and less-than-impressive genitals has suddenly had the same epiphany and realised that the emptiness in their life is because they need to embrace their Irish roots. Apparently this involves Irish flag tattoos, getting shitfaced drunk and shouting a lot for no apparent reason.

[–]Smished 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

it's probably a reference to the UFC fighter Conor McGregor, and how bandwagon-y people are 'coming out' as Irish now he's cool

[–]HeavenlyBlessdBeauty 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think they're talking about the Irish MMA fighter. From my understanding, he's a huge star currently and I imagine his momentum is casing a surge of "Irish Pride", even among those that are only Irish by heritage.

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    [–]MarriedChicksAreHot 219ポイント220ポイント  (14子コメント)

    Ok, I'm Irish and we find this kind of stuff really irritating. Just for fun you should counter his sudden support for the IRA (whose war ended 18 years ago incidentally) with newfound enthusiasm for the Taliban to show him how stupid he sounds.

    That said this is his interest, not yours. If you can't stand it then move on but he's not hurting anyone so leave him be.

    [–]parrieparrie[S] 113ポイント114ポイント  (10子コメント)

    That's the thing though - since I actually have connections with Pakistan, I couldn't even PRETEND to be pro-Taliban because I know how terrible they really were.

    When he says he supports the IRA, it's the epitome of a middle-class white guy supporting 'badasses' (aka terrible people) because it'll never touch their own sheltered life.

    [–]inksmudgedhands 19ポイント20ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Just out of curiosity, where is your boyfriend from in America?Because if you hit many cities in the North East, especially in places like New York City and Boston, you will find many IRA sympathizers and supporters. While the rest of the country has that, "My great-great grandfather was Irish therefore I am just as Irish" silly mentality, the Americans from those towns, again, like Boston, NYC, do still have active ties back to Ireland despite they are third or more generations remove from Ireland. Lots of illegal Irish in those places. Many of which are former IRA members who came here to hide with the help of Irish-Americans who still see themselves as Irish-Irish with out a hint of a smirk. Boston Irish is way different than say some guy from Portland, Oregon, whose last name happens to be O'Shea.

    [–]jlb8 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    The bit I always find funny is that IRA is a Marxist movement. Considering how most American's view those I wonder where the support comes from.

    [–]i_aint_sorry 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yeah, this is really unsavory on his part. It's just cringeworthy, like someone with German roots deciding they are pro-RAF or something. That particular type of cultural tourism is only possible from a position of profound ignorance. It seems like this guy simply isn't secure in his identity and has decided to try on this invented one for size.

    If he ever starts talking about "Irish slaves" in North America... whew, then you'll know there's a real problem here.

    [–]trainsniffing 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Why does he say he supports the IRA though? What does he like about them?

    [–]blueseashells 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    When he says he supports the IRA, it's the epitome of a middle-class white guy supporting 'badasses' (aka terrible people) because it'll never touch their own sheltered life.

    It's really interesting because my dad is Italian-American and he feels exactly the way that you do, about the Mafia.

    He grew up in a time and place (in the USA), where many things in his town were controlled by the Mafia and there was a strong Mafia presence.

    You cannot watch a Mafia movie in front of him because that sets him off and he will rant and make you turn it off. His rant is all about how it's wrong for people to glorify the Mafia and act like they are cool, because they are nothing but bullies and criminals, and they are not cool and there's nothing cool about them.

    He grew up in a place where the Mafia actually did bad things to people he knew, as well as just swaggered around the town being ordinary bullies, bullying people, humiliating them, fucking them over in large and small ways, doing violence to them, even raping them, and so on.

    He can't stand Mafia movies for that reason and nobody is allowed to watch them in his house.

    コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

      [–]Attack_Symmetra 65ポイント66ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I once had an Irish and Scottish friend go on an hour long rant together about how they find Americans that claim to be whatever culture their ancestors were to be extremely annoying, how everyone in thier country sees them as American idiots, and all they are good for is their tourism money.

      I think at the end my Scottish friend won with examples of Americans trying to pass themselves off as Scottish.

      [–]YourRealMom 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

      But seriously don't act like you support the Taliban or whatever militant group, probably a good way to end up on a watchlist.

      [–]fourbearants 556ポイント557ポイント  (192子コメント)

      Irish person here, and I used to work in tourism when I lived in Dublin. There are plenty of people like your boyfriend around and they appear genuinely oblivious to how ridiculous and sometimes offensive the things they say are. I get that the USA is in historical terms still quite young, and that everyone there apart from the natives have a genealogy that a few generations ago was from another country. Being interested in your family history is cool, and learning about the culture etc. But man, if you are born and raised in the USA and have never lived in Ireland, nor were you even raised in a particularly Irish household... you are American. Sure be proud of your heritage and learn about it. Share it with people. Great! But don't pretend you've lived it and don't shirk your actual culture just because you're ashamed to be American at the moment or something. Whatever the reason, to me your boyfriend is an ass who clearly doesn't even begin to understand the history of the culture he claims is his. To everyone else he's probably just really really annoying. The tattoo is cringe. Seriously.

      Oh and if you come to Dublin and tell people you support the IRA, don't be surprised if you get stabbed.

      Edit just for that last point - he is seriously endangering himself and people he travels with if he says that shit in the wrong place.

      [–]Attack_Symmetra 265ポイント266ポイント  (165子コメント)

      In all fairness, I didnt realize just how foolish it was to claim you were your ancestors culture was until I started living overseas. I very quickly realized that I was not half X and half Y, but American. Only American.

      It's a weird part of American culture to claim you are whatever your ancestors were. Many Americans dont really understand how foolish that is until you spend a lot of time overseas.

      [–]beardkitten 67ポイント68ポイント  (87子コメント)

      Can you help me understand how it's offensive? I'm Canadian and it's a similar culture. I plan on going overseas soon to visit Ireland and don't want to be rude!

      [–]rise2glory 153ポイント154ポイント  (7子コメント)

      Irish person here too. Most offensive stuff you say to an Irish person they'll laugh it off and rip the piss out of you for the rest of the time but there is exemptions to the rule obviously. Bringing up IRA in certain parts of Ireland is what I would consider a suicide attempt. Dublin you'd probably get away with it but border counties or up north big no no.

      [–]Jenny-Thalia 68ポイント69ポイント  (6子コメント)

      It really depends on what part of Dublin you bring it up in. Where I live (Northside), some people would embrace you for it, others would stab you.

      Just don't mention the IRA full stop.

      [–]cdmedici 34ポイント35ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I'd say it's universally a bad idea for a yank though. If you're a local in the right circles it's grand and all but some clueless yank spouting off about the 'ra wouldn't go down well anywhere I'd say.

      [–]jmomcc 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yea, I grew up on the border and any foreigner mentioning the IRA (actually almost anyone who isn't from northern Ireland or who has family there) would get a massive eye roll from me.

      [–]neverbuythesun 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I'm English, so I especially keep my mouth firmly shut on any matters that steer into that area.

      [–]rise2glory 11ポイント12ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Oh I absolutely agree but some people are gonna say it regardless what warning you give them or not. i'd rather them say it somewhere like Dublin than for them to bring it up in Belfast or somewhere where you would be guaranteed to be attacked for it.

      All I'm saying is don't bring it up but if you persist on doing it anyway know your audience and more importantly where you are in the country. I live in Kilkenny and bringing up here would just lead to everyone taking the piss out of them. I've never had a serious conversation outside of school about the IRA here but then again this part of the country was never affected by it.

      [–]frotterdammerung 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I think "just shut the fuck up about the IRA" is an easier rule to remember than have a clueless tourist try to remember what county he's in and figure out who his audience is so he can share his uninformed opinions.

      It's unlikely to get him physically assaulted, unless he's actually doing it late at night in East Belfast or something, but it's not going to win him friends.

      Also I think you can generalise the rule to "Don't go to ANY country and give your outsider's view on their internal political struggles." Like, I think it would be pretty rude for me to go to the US and start bringing up my views on Donald Trump unless the Americans I met mentioned it first.

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        [–]frozenmargaritas 130ポイント131ポイント  (51子コメント)

        You won't be rude if you say 'oh I'm Irish too!' And then explain how one of your grandparents was from Cork. You'll just be yet another American/Canadian tourist who thinks they're Irish. We'll politely tell you that's interesting/make a joke about how maybe we're distantly related and have a little chuckle inwardly to ourselves about it. It's just so cliche tbh. Every other North American tourist tells you they're Irish despite having basically zero Irish ancestry.

        [–]faymouglie 81ポイント82ポイント  (6子コメント)

        I think part of the problem is the pressure to have a strong hold on your ancestry in the US. I'm very pale with red hair, it often peaks people's interest and they ask where my family is from, my answering that we're American is literally never accepted. It's answered with a "Yes, but where are they from originally?" and I answer that I don't know, that's almost always treated as something either depressing or embarrassing, hell a few people have even followed up with a "what will you tell your future husband when he asks what his children are?" Even my boyfriend (born in the Soviet Union, grew up here since he was 4) talks about how sad it is that I "don't have a culture." I've actually taken to being brutally honest and saying "I come from a long line of preteen pregnancies so it's gotten pretty muddled and confused along the way" or something or other about a trailer park. Usually it's either funny enough that it distracts the person or makes them uncomfortable so they let it go. And that in itself upsets me! I'm so so proud that my mom came from that kind of background and fought her way to the upper middle class. She was homeless from the time she was 9-15, they slept at the church, and she had so many terrible things happen but look where I am because of her! That's something to be ashamed according to everyone around me though. That really makes me sad because I wish I could tell more people about my mom, it's such an inspiring story that no one wants to hear.

        I'm sorry for the rant (that totally got sidetracked...) but it's just something that I'm really sick of. I know there's a bit of Swiss and Swedish ancestry on my dad's side but I have literally zero connection with those cultures and I'm probably like 5% of each. It doesn't feel right to accept that heritage as my own. Why can't i just be American? I came from some poor ass, disenfranchised, molested, and forgotten white trash women and they are strong as hell. I'm proud to be in the post trailer trash generation and I'm sick of pretending that I'm not.

        [–]HKCambridge 17ポイント18ポイント  (2子コメント)

        "what will you tell your future husband when he asks what his children are?" Even my boyfriend (born in the Soviet Union, grew up here since he was 4) talks about how sad it is that I "don't have a culture."

        See, I think that's sad, that others do not want to acknowledge what is unique in US culture(s). You are from the US, you are shaped by it, your country has a history that forms the basis of your everyday experience. It's obvious to anyone who isn't from the US but is exposed to a lot of US culture through tv, film, music, literature etc that the US is its own thing. It is not merely an amalgamation of other cultures.

        [–]judyblumereference 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I think part of the problem is the pressure to have a strong hold on your ancestry in the US. I'm very pale with red hair, it often peaks people's interest and they ask where my family is from, my answering that we're American is literally never accepted.

        This is what I was kind of alluding to in my comment. I have dark brown hair, brown eyes, olive skin, and a last name that ends in a vowel. A lot of people actually think I'm Mexican at first, but I explain the last name is Italian, then I get asked if I'm 100%, etc. My great grandparents came through Ellis island so they are somewhat recent in a way as far as European ancestry is in the US (compared to my mom whose French side has been in Detroit since the 1700s and German side who came over sometime in the 1800). But I still don't really have any connection at all to my Italian heritage. Doesn't keep people from asking what I am.

        [–]pinkvoltage 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I'm very pale with red hair, it often peaks people's interest and they ask where my family is from, my answering that we're American is literally never accepted.

        Yeah, I look super "Irish" and actually did competitive Irish dancing for years, so I get stuff like that a lot. I DO have ancestors from Ireland, but it's honestly like 8 generations back (I can trace most of my family to freaking Pennsylvania in the 1700s).

        I do sometimes feel left out of having a "heritage," honestly. I live in an area with SO many different cultures and recent immigrants. I remember several college classes where we had to introduce ourselves and say where our families were from, and I was definitely in the minority by just being American, so I can understand the appeal of having a background to identify with. However, I have gotten into genealogy in the last few years and it has helped me learn and appreciate more about my American background.

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          [–]jmomcc 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

          The part that always made me laugh was just saying only Irish. Irish-American maybe. I have first generation cousins in England and they are English. They don't go around calling themselves Irish. Why does some dude, who's granny came to the states in 1849, think he's Irish?

          edit: great-granny??

          [–]lunakronos 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Because ethnic identities function a little differently in the US compared to say, countries in Europe. As another commenter pointed out, the US started as a country of immigrants, basically. And subsequent migration movements solidified that self-image and it still persists some to this day.

          A side effect is that the question "where do you come from?" must be answered. Your friend in school has a Polish last name, you learn your other friend has family in Spain, so you wonder where your family originated from. And it becomes one of the many ways you identify as an American, however strongly or weakly, because it's both a part of being American itself, and how you differentiate yourself from other Americans while still finding a place to belong.

          If you don't have a lot of friends with actual family in other countries, you might not realize the difference between being Irish by blood and Irish by culture. Or any ancestry versus ethnicity. It doesn't really help that both can be called the same thing, "Irish", so while the term "Irish-American" does exist as an alternative, the mental separation between the two meanings isn't always strong.

          Of course, having Irish ancestry is kind of a bad example because of how large that group is in the US, both real and exaggerated, but I think the idea behind it all stands.

          [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 20ポイント21ポイント  (17子コメント)

          Every other North American tourist tells you they're Irish despite having basically zero Irish ancestry.

          To be fair, what would you qualify as having "irish ancestry"? To me, if somebody said their grandparents immigrated over, I would count that has having irish roots. Obviously not as much as being born there or being first generation to the US and it is cliche, but I do think it counts.

          [–]fear_the_gnomes 40ポイント41ポイント  (16子コメント)

          Having "roots" is not the same as sharing the culture. That's the part that people get pissed off about.

          [–]ayeayefitlike 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

          So much this. I love chatting to interested tourists who claim some connection to Scotland - I'll happily point out places they might be interested seeing or the tartan that their ancestors would have worn or just chatting history. But treating me like a countryman? No, mate, we are nothing alike and you don't have a clue.

          [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

          Right, but while I appreciate you wouldn't say "I'm Irish!" to a bunch of Irish people in Ireland, don't think it's not more realistic hat a person would say they have Irish heritage...which is true if you have Irish ancestry. The point of visiting, I would imagine, would be to get a better understanding of the actual culture of your heritage, but at the same time - depending on what generation American you are - certain traditions and aspects of the culture might have been passed down to you so you might share some of the culture (even if it's not all of most of it) even though you don't live there.

          Also, my comment is more in response to the comment about somebody saying they are Irish because of a grandparent being from somewhere in Ireland (as an example) then flowing it up with saying "they'll tell you they're Irish despite having basically zero Irish ancestry. That's not a person saying "I share current Irish culture with you Irish people!" or expecting to have greater privileges than other visitors because of it. It's more than likely just their way of trying to connect to their own ancestry as well as the people currently living there. As the US was created on an amalgamation of all different ethnicities, it might be harder for somebody living in a country that has much longer historical timelines to understand why Americans view ancestral roots that way. There's getting pissed off by some dude claiming to be the poster boy of Ireland after having been there once and then there's getting pissed of by a person trying to connect with their cultural roots and being inexperienced with that.

          [–]fear_the_gnomes 2ポイント3ポイント  (10子コメント)

          I get trying to learn and connect your ancenstral roots but how can you be proud of it? You had nothing to do with it. That's like me saying I'm proud that my people where called the bravest of all Gaul by Ceasar himself.

          I didn't kill any Romans, I have never fought a war, how can I be proud of this?

          [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Why does anybody feel pride for something they've not done themselves?

          There could be numerous reasons, but just dismissing them or instantly getting offended without getting to understand it better probably won't actually answer that question. Obviously some instance are just cause to be offended right away and certain statements/behaviors by a person can just be outright awkward/embarrassing, but I'm not sure how a person could be "pissed off" by another person saying "I've got Irish ::or whatever:: blood because of xyz ancestors". That seems so incredibly over the top and judgmental and actually seems like just as much of an overstep in "cultural pride" as a person like OP's boyfriend, in my opinion.

          [–]hysilvinia 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

          They are not saying they're proud of themselves for it, they are proud to have ancestors who are Irish, this, proud of the ancestors. You can be proud of your grandpa. Why not proud of your ancient relatives? I don't think anyone would seriously take claim on the actual deeds as their own.

          [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Yep. They could have numerous reasons/things they are proud of. Perhaps they have pride in their last name because their ancestors helped build something or do something fairly important. They aren't saying "I'm Irish and so proud because we as a people have done xyz things!". While OP's boyfriend is definitely going embarrassingly far over the top, others visiting Ireland (or other ancestral territories) aren't behaving this way as a majority.

          [–]spikeyfreak 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

          This goes a lot deeper than you're saying.

          I'm American. Family has lived here for a long time.

          But I haven't fought in any wars. I haven't held any political office. I've never been in a protest, or fought for anyone's rights.

          Why should I be proud to be an American? I really don't have anything to do with the state of America right now.

          [–]fear_the_gnomes 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Indeed, Why should a person be proud of where they are born? You didn't shoose to be born there, you didn't activly achieve something just because your parents just happened to live there at the moment of your birth.

          You can be proud of your culture, because that is something you actively participe in and learn about and from as you get older. But simply being born somewhere is something to be proud of in my opinion.

          コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

            [–]loopsonflowers 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

            But having roots is the same has having Irish ancestry.

            [–]fear_the_gnomes 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Yes but that's not the same as sharing the culture. If you go back far enough everybody has African roots. Doesn't mean I share a single gram of African culture.

            [–]nexusSigma 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This. Your culture is acquired through the environment you grow up in, its actually a discreetly different thing from ancestry. For example, my friend is Indian racially, but English culturally. His parents raised him in England, in an English household with next to no Indian influence besides the occasional curry. He is Christian and speaks with an East end accent. Hes English. Its all well and good being interested or proud in your genealogy, but its not culture. Culture cant be genetically inherited.

            コメントをもっと表示する (24 返事)

              [–]Bth-root 55ポイント56ポイント  (8子コメント)

              An analogy: let's say I have some tentative connection to your family from years ago. I arrive at your house someday for a visit, and act all too familiar with you and generally act as if it were rightfully my own home.

              It takes time to integrate into a group. In this case, visitors are of course welcome. If they have a connection to Ireland - wonderful, it's nice that we share that. However, it doesn't grant any particular rights to them over any other visitor.

              If someone wants to become Irish, then they can come live here, work here, and after 5 years become a citizen. Plenty of people who have no Irish heritage do so and successfully integrate into the culture (both old and modern) of the country. These are far more Irish than any person with distant blood links that have not acclimatised in a natural fashion.

              Also, the IRA were a group of terrorists that murdered soldiers and civilians alike. They originated in the early 20th century as a somewhat justified fighting group to fight for Irish independence. By the end of the century they were causing only harm to the people of Ireland and the UK. If anyone today claims to support them, then any Irishman in this country that values the peace we have achieved would gladly spit on him/her.

              [–]A_TRIPLE 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

              I wouldn't really say its "offensive" (we're quite difficult to properly offend unless you conflate us with the British/UK). But the rather annoying bit, is when tourists try to further prove that they're just like us, by exclaiming how they engage in stereotypically "Irish" activites, like getting shitfaced drunk, fighting etc.

              It's often the case however that the cultural activity they mention is more of a bastardized Irish-American one, rather than being reflective of actual culture in Ireland. An example would be how Americans often eat the "Traditional Irish Dish" of corned beef, on St Patrick's day. Corned beef is not a common food here in Ireland, and only really became popular among immigrants in the US, due to its availability and price there. So when Americans tell us how they love corned beef etc, it really just signifies a level of ignorance towards the reality of our country/culture.

              ...The getting shitfaced one is accurate though.

              [–]Lanxie 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Dont boast about your irish heritage, people will most likely laugh at you. If you have family from here say you wanted to see where you family came from and just go from there, most people will be ok with that. Dont mention the IRA or anything, it could go very very badly.

              [–]0sricStark 15ポイント16ポイント  (6子コメント)

              I think the commenters here are being a bit precious to be honest. As long as you don't do anything outrageously stupid like sermonising about the politics of your ancestor's homeland without having any real understanding of it or talk about getting tattoos of a country you know nothing about, I doubt any one will care about your lineage.

              [–]redminx17 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

              True but the way you talk about it also matters somewhat. Visiting the country and explaining to locals something like "Oh, my family's from here originally and that's why I was interested in visiting" is very different from saying "I'm as Irish as you are!" or referring to it as your 'homeland' when you've never set foot there before. It's generally not so offensive, just makes you sound stupid & sort of entitled.

              It starts getting offensive when people start attributing their own behaviour to cultural stereotypes, like "I drink a lot, it's cause I'm Irish" or "I'm Italian so I'm super passionate & have a temper", that kind of thing, as well as the things you mentioned like assuming you know their politics better than they do.

              [–]DinahMyte77 10ポイント11ポイント  (4子コメント)

              There's also the squicky angle of OP's BF acting as if being an American of Irish descent leads to one being as discriminated against as a person of color, particularly from a majority Muslim country. He's being a twit both at home and aboard, and I say that as someone who shares his pasty ancestry.

              [–]twentyninethrowaways 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Don't tell them you're Irish lol. Also, unless you have a Ph.D in Irish history or culture don't "correct" them when they start talking about stuff...in fact, even if you do have the Ph.D. in Irish history don't correct them. This is their home. Just treat them the way you'd want to be treated in your home (by not telling them you know more about it than they do).

              コメントをもっと表示する (7 返事)

                [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 33ポイント34ポイント  (0子コメント)

                In all fairness, I didnt realize just how foolish it was to claim you were your ancestors culture was until I started living overseas. I very quickly realized that I was not half X and half Y, but American. Only American.

                Oh my god, yes! In the US, I would say "I'm 100% Italian" when asked about my heritage and that was normal. If you say that in the UK, they will assume you're off the boat or something and can speak fluent Italian, etc. (I have relatives in Italy, but they are super distant and I don't speak to them, my great aunt does). Only really go that level of perspective once moving out of the US that, to everybody here, I'm American. I'm not Italian.

                [–]judyblumereference 18ポイント19ポイント  (0子コメント)

                If I went overseas I would call myself American, wouldn't tell someone in France that I have ancestral ties there or anything like that because it's silly, I have no connection to it other than my mother's maiden name. At the same time though people in the states seem to ask what you are a lot, based on last name for me usually. I kind of get why people carry it around with them a little bit.

                [–]abitnotgood 36ポイント37ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Australian too. We have a lot of cultural cringe here and a massive inferiority complex about not being European (well, the white population do anyway) and any appeal to Australian patriotism tends to turn into nationalism pretty quickly.

                Maybe that's part of the problem for OP's boyfriend - many less-conservative people feel alienated by the rabid nationalism that gets conflated with patriotism in Australia, and I assume in the US as well. I know I personally reached out to my Irish heritage when I was younger to try and develop a healthier self-identification, and I know a lot of other people have too.

                OP, maybe it would help your boyfriend to go to places like Yellowstone and other iconic American places that aren't built entirely on warfare or whatever part of US exceptionalism is in conflict with his personal values. Maybe he can visit some places or events within the US that celebrate or commemorate things he can genuinely immerse himself in.

                Edit: spelling

                [–]0sricStark 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Speaking about Australia, I think it comes from being a recently colonised and formed nation. Everyone here except the indigenous population came from somewhere else a few generations back so it's natural to look to where your forefathers came from in terms of your cultural identity. It's doesn't have to be a negative thing as long as you don't get up to ridiculous antics like OP's boyfriend.

                [–]FraveBel56 41ポイント42ポイント  (24子コメント)

                I'm German (born and bred) but stayed in the US for a year. The amount of people who told me they're full-/half-/quarter-German is ridiculous but have never even left the US is ridiculous.

                [–]0sricStark 49ポイント50ポイント  (22子コメント)

                If they're referring to who their recent ancestors were then that's merely stating a fact, and there's nothing wrong with that. If your dad was born in Germany and was of German descent then you ARE half German no matter where you were raised.

                [–]ISmokeWeedInTheUSSR 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Agree. I'm Brazilian (and consider myself full Brazilian in culture too) but my father is German. People always ask where I'm from, even in my own country, due my name being german. And I always tell them "well I'm half German" even though I consider myself as a Brazilian national.

                [–]Keystoner 36ポイント37ポイント  (4子コメント)

                ITT: people who don't understand there is a difference between heritage and nationality.

                [–]catjuggler 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

                Yes and I think this happens because for most people who aren't americans, heritage and nationality are the SAME. I don't think it's wrong to mention your heritage/ ancestry if it's not your nationality and I think people in EU just don't get it because they don't have the same background. It would be kind of boring to say "ah yes, I'm american- my dad was american, his dad was american, and anyone before that doesn't exist."

                [–]Keystoner 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Agree entirely. But to mock Americans for claiming their ancestry, and call it rude? That's ridiculous. OP's partner is one thing, since that's bordering on racist and it's just tone deaf to the very real racism his partner experiences. But I don't agree with the majority of people here conflating the two, and I don't care that it's downvoted to hell. That's a shitty and mean spirited sentiment.

                [–]FraveBel56 22ポイント23ポイント  (15子コメント)

                Nah. If you go to Germany and say you're half German you'll be laughed at. Even moreso when you don't know a lick of German

                [–]run_cueca 21ポイント22ポイント  (14子コメント)

                Wut? Are you saying if a parent was German, and the child had German citizenship but had never learned German, you wouldn't consider the child half-German?

                [–]Meloetta 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                The only thing that may change the answer is the citizenship factor. But in reality, you're going to the far end of the spectrum to make a point - most people in the US/Canada are not like that. It's more like "my grandparents came from Germany, so my father is of German heritage, so I'm half German".

                But if your only connection to Germany is "my father used to live there", and you go to Germany saying you're half German, yeah you'd probably get laughed at. Because you're not. You're of German heritage. In the US and Canada we shorten that to "German", but it's just not true - you're not Irish because your grandparents were, you're of Irish heritage.

                [–]run_cueca 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I didn't bring up that spectrum. That is part of the thread. Look at /u/0sricStark 's comment -

                If your dad was born in Germany and was of German descent then you ARE half German no matter where you were raised.

                [–]ayeayefitlike 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                My auntie moved to the US, married an American and has two kids. She refers to her kids as American, not 'half-Scottish'. Although they are well aware that their family on one side is Scottish and have visited us here, and are interested in their heritage, they call themselves American to us too.

                [–]tw151116 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Yes. I am equal parts German and Polish and am happy to call myself German because I grew up there and speak the language etc. I would never call myself Polish because I speak no Polish and have never even been there, although I might acknowledge I have roots there if asked.

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                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                    [–]StrangerSkies 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    My parents emigrated from the Soviet Union and I was born in the US. People act as though I'm Russian because I speak the language. It's ridiculous! I have no connection to the culture: I wouldn't understand pop references from past the 1970's when my parents left, and even then I'd only vaguely get them. I don't read the literature, engage with the news from a native's perspective, have a stake in their society.

                    [–]denna84 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    I think that's limited to certain parts of the country. When I moved from Texas to Massachusetts many of the people I met there freaked out when I told them I was American. They'd say things like "Yeah but what ARE YOU?" Like I was somehow answering the question wrong. I even got into a disagreement with my boss because he said that where my ancestors came from defined me as a person and that I was willfully ignorant for not wanting to know who I am. I said something along the lines of "I'm denna84, I know who I am and it has nothing to do with where my great grandparents were born."

                    No one that I knew in Texas really cared all that much, even the people who had parents that weren't born in America didn't make a big deal out of it. It's weird how obsessed a lot of people from MA are with being "Irish."

                    [–]lordtuts 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                    it has nothing to do with where my great grandparents were born."

                    Well that's just plain wrong.

                    While I agree with your sentiment and believe that we as individuals have the greatest influence in defining our own lives, the cold hard fact is that a large part of who we are is because of where our ancestors were born, where they went, and who they met. The same will be true for your descendants, should you choose to procreate. Raising a family in the southeatern US will have a much different impact on the same family being raised in, say, Finland.

                    Allowing your ancestors lives and decisions to be what defines your life is stupidity, but blatantly ignoring the significance of your their decisions on your life is ignorance.

                    [–]saraoflaherty 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Yes, but people don't seem to understand the difference between saying "I am Irish", and "I have Irish ancestry". If you were born in the US to US-born parents, one is correct, one is not.

                    [–]ForgotMyUmbrella 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    Ironically I found out I qualified for dual Italian citizenship (jure sanguinis) and recently went to Italy. Nobody in my family has been there since around 1910 when my GGM left. I speak little Italian. I was graciously received and told over and over how I'm just as Italian as anyone else (told this by the mayor if my adopted comune). I, and my children, have full rights to vote, etc as well and will be getting my passport. So I went from being the typical American in my hometown area that's Italian.. to being a true Italian - American dual citizen.

                    [–]wandmirk 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    It's a weird part of American culture to claim you are whatever your ancestors were. Many Americans dont really understand how foolish that is until you spend a lot of time overseas.

                    And especially incredibly shitty given a great many Black folks don't KNOW what country and Africa their ancestors were from thanks to White folks.

                    And folks like me who have indigenous heritage but their racist ass white relatives burnt records to hide it & will never know what tribe their family was from.

                    [–]AssistX 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    You mean like African Americans?

                    [–]klorox2277 3ポイント4ポイント  (33子コメント)

                    I don't know if I agree with this. Most other countries are much more homogenous than the United States. Americans have such varying cultural identities. An Italian person in Italy has a similar cultural identity to other Italian people in Italy. A Chinese person in China has a similar cultural identity to other Chinese people in China. Obviously differences like gender and economic position and even religion will impact identity also, but there are a lot of similarities.

                    In my experience, cultural identity can vary so much in the United States. In New York City, you can go to China town where many of the people will identify as Chinese rather than American or rather than JUST American. If that makes sense. A Chinese person in Italy would probably do the same thing, identify as an Italian citizen and identify culturally as Chinese.

                    I am a second generation American. One grandparent was born in Sicily, one in Ireland, one escaped Nazi Germany has an early teen and one fled Poland. I am an Irish, Italian Jew. I am also an American. But culturally I am all of those things. Different holidays spent with different sides of the family immersed in one of 3.5/4 cultures. (I say 3.5 because my Jewish grandparents had very similar cultural identities, just slightly different food).

                    [–]lace_roses 29ポイント30ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    A second or third Italian American is the same as an Italian who's always lived in Italy? There's a HUGE culture difference. That doesn't mean that you don't get to have your heritage but don't equate the two.

                    [–]TT-Toaster[🍰] 60ポイント61ポイント  (1子コメント)

                    Chinese person in China has a similar cultural identity to other Chinese people in China.

                    THEY HAVE MULTIPLE DIFFERENT LANGUAGES

                    [–]ayeayefitlike 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    And the huge number of other Chinese ethnicities to Han Chinese, particularly in western China...

                    [–]wanna_live_on_a_boat 38ポイント39ポイント  (3子コメント)

                    I'm a first generation Chinese American, and I don't think OP's boyfriend should say he's Irish.

                    First, because I don't just identify as Chinese, but as Chinese American. I meet up with my Chinese relatives and go back to China regularly and there is definitely a huge difference between my version of Chinese culture and a Chinese person's Chinese culture.

                    Second, part of me explaining to other Americans that I'm Chinese American is because of how I'm treated as a minority in the US. I get asked if I speak English, if I'm Korean, if I'm good at math, etc as the first thing strangers ask me. I've had men ask me out because they have yellow fever. This is a uniquely Asian American thing to experience. Irish-looking Americans do not get different treatment (nowadays) from the "default" so they can't claim a common experience this way. (In contrast, black people can, even though they might've only known American culture for many generations.)

                    Third, even though I was born in the US and English is my native language, I speak Chinese. I lived in China for formative years of my childhood. There are concepts I can only explain with Chinese sayings. I have a lot more interaction with Chinese people than the average American, and that's real interaction, not the polite interaction with strangers. I know what Chinese food is supposed to taste like and actually crave it when I'm not feeling well. These are things that make me Chinese. Obviously, the degree here is variable. But if it's like OP's boyfriend who has NONE of the cultural background, then he has no connection to the culture. What's the difference between him and me studying Irish culture and then claiming to be Irish? Looks, then? But that's not how culture works at all.

                    The grossest part of what OP's boyfriend is doing is doing all that and then claiming he's being treated in a racist way. No. If people are treating him badly, it's not because he's a redhead. It's because he's being extremely insensitive to people who have actually dealt with racism. (And ignorantly making claims of political affiliations.)

                    [–]klorox2277 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                    I agree that OPs boyfriend is absolutely wrong in this situation. I was replying to a comment that was discussing how Americas identifying as their heritage as opposed to just American is viewed negatively in other countries. Which is what I disagree with.

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                      [–]cerealkillergoat 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      I don't know if I agree with this. Most other countries are much more homogenous than the United States. Americans have such varying cultural identities. An Italian person in Italy has a similar cultural identity to other Italian people in Italy.

                      This is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. And to use Italy of all countries as an example! There are ENORMOUS cultural differences between different regions in Italy, especially the north and the south. I cannot even put into words how different for example Trentino-Alto Adige and Sicily are. You seriously could not be more wrong.

                      [–]Smished 68ポイント69ポイント  (15子コメント)

                      I don't know if I agree with this. Most other countries are much more homogenous than the United States. Americans have such varying cultural identities. An Italian person in Italy has a similar cultural identity to other Italian people in Italy.

                      you comment sort of stinks of the ignorance OPs bf is displaying. people across Europe have varying heritage too, but as an American you don't seem to think that at all. i could say i'm welsh/irish/french/scottish/a couple of other bits if i wanted, and many European people are the same.

                      you really think that NY is unique in it's diversity? you think London, Paris, Rome etc are all devoid of that same mixture of races and origins? seriously?

                      [–]stalkers 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      It's What I like to call Melting Pot syndrome.

                      [–]patheticparenthetic 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      My question is, is it ok for a person in Paris whose great-grandparents were, say, Turkish, identify as both French and Turkish? Or do they have to surrender their ancestral identity and identify only as French? I feel like a lot of people in this thread would say, "No, that person can only consider herself French." I mean, I agree that OP's boyfriend is being a douche and totally tone deaf and ridiculous, but there's got to be a better way of still associating with that rich ancestral history while recognizing the cultural changes that happen over generations of being away from the "homeland."

                      [–]Smished 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      in the world we live in the options for self labelling are virtually infinite, and telling people what they are is considered hate speech by many. however, for most people, once you and your parents were all born in a country it probably becomes a bit weird to identify as a different nationality. you can enjoy the culture and identify with the heritage, but that's different to actually claiming to be turkish, to use your example. you're of turkish descent.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (12 返事)

                        [–]embracing_insanity 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I get what you are saying. I grew up thinking of myself as 'half and half' - half Greek, half Italian. My parents are full blooded Greek/Italian and are both 1st gen Americans.

                        My maternal side is Greek and walking into my Yaya's house was like stepping out of America and into Greece. That side of my family was still heavily attached to the Greek heritage/culture and considered themselves Greek, period. My paternal side is Italian. And unlike my mom's parents, my dad's parents completely embraced the American culture. My grandmother wouldn't even speak Italian to her kids - so none of them (there were 9) grew up speaking or understanding Italian. However, my dad and ALL of his siblings still ended up greatly attaching themselves and their identity to their Italian heritage and similarly, considered themselves Italian first, then American.

                        So although both sets of grandparents are immigrants, the way they raised their kids was definitely different. One side physically left Greece, but continued to live and identify fully as Greeks. The other physically left Italy, embraced America, but still somehow their 'kids' still heavily identified as Italian first, then American.

                        So with that in mind, even though I'm 2nd gen born and raised American, because of the way my families identified, and how much of my life was spent at my Yaya's, I grew up thinking of myself as first Greek, then Italian and lastly American.

                        Now that most of my family has passed years ago, I have lost much of the connection to it all. And on my own as I've gotten older have realized I am truly just American, with a Greek/Italian heritage. But it is funny because whenever the question comes up of what I am - in conversation or on questionnaires/surveys - 'Greek and Italian' is still the first thing that pops into my head.

                        But I guess OP's situation would be like if my kid suddenly decided to identify as Greek or Italian and not American, even though she's 3rd gen American and was never raised in a cultural environment of either. There does come a point where even though you do have immigrant heritage, you're still American through and through literally and culturally.

                        [–]Blonde_Calculator 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        3.5/4 of the cultures...

                        [–]klorox2277 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        Well at least in the case of my grandparents. Neither one was sure of their ancestor's true countries of origins since the Jews.... moved around a lot. So they had very similar cultures. They had different ways of making traditional Jewish food, but it was very similar. If that makes sense.

                        [–]Meloetta 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        ....It's like quintessential American ignorance to say other countries are homogeneous while the US is so unique for having different cultures....it's the cultural equivalent of "I can't tell Asians apart, they all look the same to me!"

                        [–]that-there 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                        I am an Irish, Italian Jew. I am also an American.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                          [–]SolarShrieking 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          Ayy, a fellow offensive support! Battle Mercy for life!

                          [–]oh_boisterous 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                          My German friend (he was an au pair working in New York for a year) told me he was 75% German and 25% American since his grandfather was born in Brooklyn. I don't know if it's something he heard other Americans saying and drew his own conclusions or what.

                          コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                            [–]AndromedaRulerOfMen 27ポイント28ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            I went on a family trip to Ireland a few years ago. I spent the entire trip cringing at my mom, who went around introducing herself by saying "I'm a McCormick, my entire family is Irish, this is my homeland" to everyone from tour guides to cashiers... all of these people born and raised in Ireland, and my mother being very very American. I tried explaining how offensive it was because she isn't culturally Irish, but she just kept saying she was "just as Irish as them".

                            [–]HoratioBumbaclaat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Really, brutally cringe. I hope it didn't upset the trip too much. Sometimes it's hard to explain to our parents' generation why what they do could be considered offensive, I'm sure she had no idea.

                            [–]CasPipKam 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Also Irish.

                            I second the point about the stabbing. Also what a tool for getting the flag tattooed on himself...

                            [–]Andromeda321 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            When I was traveling around Ireland I was surprised how many people asked me as an American "so, are you here to trace your Irish roots?" They were all happy when I said no, no Irish ancestry whatsoever, I just wanted to see Ireland.

                            I guess people like OP's boyfriend are more common than I'd assumed now that I think about it.

                            [–]kdwhodat 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            My family's heritage is Irish and I studied abroad in Ireland so I can see both sides of it. I think what you have to remember is a lot of people's ancestors didn't leave Ireland because they wanted to and many always had plans to return. It just didn't work out that way. That feeling, that one day you should return, has been passed down for generations.

                            When you find pockets of Irish culture in parts of the US a lot of it is due to continuous back and forth between Ireland and the US. People here have cousins who come visit and they go visit family back in Ireland. In many ways the Irish in the US clung to their culture because they both proud to be Irish and not accepted here because of it, that feeling gets passed down to their children and grandchildren.

                            There are also groups here that preserve the Irish culture. While I would never say I was "Irish" I would certainly say that my family originally immigrated from Ireland. And I've found there are plenty of people in Ireland proud of what some "Irish" in America have done, take JFK for example.

                            I don't think this is something that's completely unique to the Irish in the US. There is a lot more to culture and heritage than just the borders in which you live. But the Irish and the Americans have always had an interesting history and influence on each other.

                            [–]fourbearants 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Yep, I agree with you. He should totally explore it and be proud of it. Seems from the OP though that the whole passing the culture down through the family thing hasn't happened here.

                            But tbh suddenly calling himself Irish and getting a tattoo of the flag is just silly.

                            [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 12ポイント13ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            Oh and if you come to Dublin and tell people you support the IRA, don't be surprised if you get stabbed.

                            And definitely don't stop over to England while you're "in the area" and say you support the IRA...that would be bad news...

                            [–]ayeayefitlike 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                            With all the anti-terror legislation now and the fears of Irish unrest with Brexit looming I wouldn't be surprised if you found yourself on a plane home at least...

                            [–]x0_Kiss0fDeath 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                            Or definitely detained, bear minimum. That would not go over well....and you probably wouldn't be making many English friends...

                            [–]knitwasabi 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            This. I lived in Ireland for 15 years, had both my boys there in Holles St, and have Irish citizenship through marriage. My formative adult years were spent there and I consider it my place, and I miss it dearly.

                            I do not consider myself Irish at all. One time someone came into the store I worked in, and started telling me about how the Irish wear black shoes all the time to keep from them looking dirty, with all the walking we do. She was from S Florida, and if I ever went there, I'd understand why they always wear white shoes.

                            She thought I was Irish. First, my mother was raised in S Florida. Second, I was cracking up inside. Once she left the store, I ran over to my boss and said "She thought I was Irish!!". Said boss cracked up "WITH THAT ACCENT?!" :D It's still a joke now.

                            I'm Ukrainian/Austrian/Scottish/Dutch with dual citizenship. I am not, nor ever will be, Irish.

                            [–]unicorn-jones 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            But don't pretend you've lived it and don't shirk your actual culture just because you're ashamed to be American at the moment or something.

                            ding ding ding

                            [–]parrieparrie[S] 24ポイント25ポイント  (3子コメント)

                            That's exactly what I think. He just wants to feel special for being something other than normal American white, but he's got no special connection to Ireland at all. He literally only started getting close to his grandma in the past few months because she's from Ireland (except she's lost her accent because she moved here at age 12).

                            [–]jmomcc 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            To be fair, I lost my accent and I left Ireland when I was 22.

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                              [–]Rabbits4ducks 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              I have an uncommon Scottish last name for my area. My family came from Scottland many generations ago. I represent the clans history at our local Scottish festival. Is that offensive?

                              [–]fourbearants 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Doesn't sound offensive. It's a Scottish festival. But presumably you don't go to the pub on a Friday evening with your mates, talk about how Scottish you are, and show them your Scottish flag tattoo.

                              There's a difference between being proud of your heritage and wanting to share it with others, and suddenly deciding that you're not American any more, getting tattooed and taking a hugely ignorant and offensive view on an extremely divisive national political issue.

                              [–]saraoflaherty 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I am married to an Irish guy(Imported him from Cobh), and I got schooled about this very early on because I hear it so often, it's apparently a huge pet peeve. There is a huge difference between having Irish ancestry, and actually being Irish. And don't get him started on Americans who like to say things like "I'm 25% German, 25% Irish and 50% Italian"...they are like to be asked what kind of gang-bangs their mom was into :O

                              We have two kids together, American born, and they are Americans who are just lucky enough to be eligible for Irish citizenship(we need to do the paperwork still), but we don't say they are Irish, even though they probably fall into that grey area.

                              [–]nooralt 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              I'm half middle eastern and half Irish. My mum's fully Irish and travelled to the Middle East to be with my dad in the 80s. My dad's fully middle eastern.

                              I've lived in the Middle East my entire life but have visited Ireland once a year, every year since I was born, usually in the summer for about 2 months at a time. Still don't consider myself to be Irish! I internally cringe and think it's hilarious when I hear stories of these Americans that are fully convinced they're Irish. Middle East is where I grew up and even though an entire half side of my family are Dubliners through and through, I would still just say I'm from the Middle East, but half Irish.

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                                [–]metalbashergirl 73ポイント74ポイント  (13子コメント)

                                So I'm English, but I have lived in Ireland for more than half my life, since I was 10 years old. I have a lot of Irish family on my Dad's mother's side. I have Irish citizenship. And guess what? I would still be fucking embarrassed to claim I was actually Irish.

                                Ireland is full of people like your boyfriend, claiming they're 1/16th Irish. My university is full of that type of international over here to study, and it's a pretty common game for us to mess with them, so I'm really not surprised he got made fun of in Dublin. I suspect Dublin would be pretty used to it by now too, because of the tourism over there, so he's lucky he didn't try it in less touristy areas.

                                Frankly, the 'supporting the IRA' thing is the most offensive part of this whole thing. Does he actually understand what the country went through in relation to the Troubles, etc? Would he like to try saying that in some of the more risky areas, because he'd run a good chance of getting himself killed?

                                If he was genuinely part of Irish culture, he'd know how little that sort of shit flies over here.

                                However, unless you're planning to show him the responses to this thread and the stories of how people over here really view how he's acting, my only advice would be to figure out what's sparked all of this. I would imagine that his sudden interest in feeling 'special', something a little unusual or even a victim (on account of his 'racism' themes) have come from some feeling of inadequacy on his part. Has anything big or bad happened in his life recently, particularly around the time that this all started? Is he generally successful in his work, and with people? Is he generally outgoing or would he tend to not get noticed in group situations?

                                I would be very surprised if this wasn't stemming from a need on his part to feel special or noticed. As well as having a frank talk with him about cutting this shit out (don't sugarcoat the fact that people have been laughing at him, he's clearly not going to listen to hints and subtlety), why don't you try asking him why he's suddenly so passionate about this? Why does he feel that he needs an identity so tied up in loose biological connections to him? Why isn't just being himself enough?

                                You could also suggest ways that he 'embrace' his culture in more subtle ways. Is the Irish name in his family one that would have a coat of arms? Get him a print or keyring or something of it, tell him it'll remind him to inspired by his heritage and that that's a good thing, but that it cannot be his whole identity. Tell him other great things about who he is aside from his Irish heritage.

                                If you haven't already, I would also discuss with him that it's genuinely hurtful to you to claim he experiences racism to same as you, and that it feels like he's not being sensitive to your experiences. Even list out some of the worst things you have experienced in relation to being Pakistani, and ask him to list any similar experiences he's had personally on account of being 'Irish'. Hint: he won't be able to come up with any.

                                If all of that fails, ask him to learn Gaelic. He'll forget about his 'heritage' right around the time he has to learn the modh coinniollach. Good luck!

                                [–]EcumenicalMatter 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                I think in your case you have a right to call yourself irish. Having citizenship and living here for a long period of time especially during your formative years gives you as much a right to claim that as anyone else here in my opinion.

                                [–]trainsniffing 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                I think The UK is kind of different though. Generally the country you are born in is your claimed nationality and to do otherwise is a bit weird. If your parents are both Pakistanis from Pakistan and you're born in the UK..you're British. If I knew someone who was Australian and came here when they were ten (for example) I'd say they were Australian and not British.

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                                    [–]sinnersense 279ポイント280ポイント  (21子コメント)

                                    I'm not really going to wade into this one, but just two things immediately.

                                    Him trying to compare his racist "experiences" (a white guy in America who was born in America) is certainly not the same thing as the racism that you receive. Not even close.

                                    Secondly, saying he "supports the IRA" is breathtakingly ignorant. They were a vile, violent, terrorist group that had no qualms towards bombing civilian centres and murdering their own people.

                                    [–]judyblumereference 87ポイント88ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                    Yeah, all of this made me cringe but if I was OP I would not be able to get past him saying he has experienced racism like her. What the fuck. Maybe his ancestors dealt with anti Irish sentiment, but umm....no, bro, you have not dealt with racism.

                                    I don't really have good advice for OP because I'm not sure how you talk someone like this off the ledge. This is all so cringey and idk if I could get past it.

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                                      [–]creammypie 56ポイント57ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      Sounds like the kinda guy who'd walk into an Irish bar and ask for an Irish Carbomb and then act surprised when people are offended.

                                      I know technically he has Irish heritage but to me that means nothing. I believe in Ireland you either live here or your parents did, and you are Irish. After that it's just heritage and that means not a lot if everyone in America insists they have Irish roots. But I'm a mean person, simply because these people annoy the fuck out of me.

                                      He is acting awfully embarrassing but I don't know how you'd even go about telling him sensitively. And that tattoo... shudder

                                      [–]cdmedici 30ポイント31ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Unrelated, but when I was bartending (tourist spot in Dublin) I'd a very sweet American lady come up to me and ask how I'd go about ordering "a pint of Guinness with a shot of whiskeys and Baileys" and my response was "I absolutely haven't a breeze, I've never heard anyone order that in my life-- hang on. it's not a car bomb, is it?"

                                      she got so flustered and kinda shushed me and said "Well that's what we'd call it in the States, but we were told it maybe wasn't the best idea over here..."

                                      Bless her, at least she was trying. (I told her no, don't ever say that to anyone ever.)

                                      [–]creammypie 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      That's really sweet!! What a nice woman - there's probably an alternative name for it but I don't think anyone drinks it here? She went about that in the right way!

                                      [–]cdmedici 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It was adorable! I told her that if she wants it, she should just describe it the way she just did to me, and most bartenders who have a clue what it is would probably appreciate her not calling it by its name.

                                      Like there's loads of sound and respectful Americans that come over here and treat us like people and not setpieces on the fuckin' Quiet Man... and then there's gobshites like OPs boyfriend.

                                      [–]Blonde_Calculator 22ポイント23ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Idk man, his Irish heritage is about as prominent as my African heritage from 1.75 million years ago,

                                      [–]creammypie 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I understand that, but I don't personally see him as Irish at all, and neither would most of my friends or family. Maybe we are a bit racist in that sense but you are or you aren't. Not saying this is a good perspective at all, just that it is mine.

                                      Wouldn't mind saying he had Irish ancestors or Irish roots or Irish grandparents, but he isn't Irish. Honestly I know this sounds very harsh but it's truthfully how many of us would see it.

                                      I also think him trying to culturally involve himself with a tatted flag and the Irish Republican terrorist army is absolutely absurd to what he could be doing - reading Irish history, understanding how we've come to be a republic, our art, our heritage... this is why these tourists just aren't taken seriously. Shamrocks and leprechauns > our history, our nationality.

                                      [–]kangaesugi 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Yeah. I'm British with an Irish grandmother. My mother takes quite a lot after my grandmother and so I guess there's some cultural influence within our family there and I'd like to get more in touch culturally with that side of my family by teaching myself Irish and whatnot, but I wouldn't call myself Irish. I've never even been to Ireland.

                                      It's essentially about as relevant as me saying I'm basically Scandinavian or some shit. Sure, maybe at some point in my family history, but it's hardly significant.

                                      [–]Bthrowaway567 27ポイント28ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      Declaring his support for the IRA shows a lot of ignorance. Not because they are a “terrorist” organisation but because they disbanded nearly 20 years ago. The provisional IRA that is, who were the only group that had any kind of public support. If he supports the current dissidents well you can tell him they are just a bunch of drug dealing gangsters who any true Irish person despises. I’m from Northern Ireland and grew up during the tail end of the troubles in a Republican strong hold. I’ll take him to a graveyard and show him some of my relatives and that will dispel any notion that there is anything romantic about an armed struggle. I’ve relatives there who were innocent civilians shot by the LVF and relatives who were IRA members and shot by the SAS. Any Irish Americans who think there was anything romantic about the armed struggle, or even think they actually understand what was happening and why the violence occurred can go to fuck

                                      [–]7up8down9left 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Any Irish Americans who think there was anything romantic about the armed struggle

                                      It's easy to romanticize "armed resistance" when it's what founded America; he's applying that sense of national pride towards a different country entirely.

                                      [–]threesquares 113ポイント114ポイント  (8子コメント)

                                      If he's a Redditor you could always get him to post in the r/ireland sub about how Irish he feels. They'll smack him down like nobodies business, particularly if he starts mentioning his support for the IRA.

                                      [–]DoctorPan 56ポイント57ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      Ah yes, a fucking Plastic Paddy. Alls that is missing for a kill on sight is celebrating Patty's Day

                                      [–]thisshortenough 23ポイント24ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Maybe he'll try bring Snickers over. Then we could forgive him

                                      [–]lunakitty_ 15ポイント16ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      And ordering a car bomb

                                      [–]abitnotgood 50ポイント51ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      particularly if he starts mentioning his support for the IRA

                                      for anyone who's wondering why: they killed A LOT of innocent people, including children.

                                      [–]InternationalDilema 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      My name is very Irish but I grew up in the US and speak with an American accent so whenever I end up talking with Irish people (I live in Europe so fairly common), I just pass over it and then they eventually seem to be so used to the conversation happening that they come back and ask me about it.

                                      Also, OP's boyfriend needs to learn the difference between Irish and Irish Diaspora. I consider myself part of the latter but I am definitely not Irish.

                                      [–]MakingBadDecisions 17ポイント18ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I had an ex like this. His grandparents on both sides were Irish who came over to North West England. He was into Irish-American bands like Dropkick Murphys and wanted to get a clover tattoo.

                                      He had a thing were he'd like to mold his personality around cool characters in TV and film because he didn't feel interesting enough just being himself and this was an extension of it. Maybe your boyfriend needs a hobby. Something to give him an identity that isn't about coincidence of lineage.

                                      Another thing that may have helped my ex was seeing a quote that basically pointed out that it's pointless being proud of a nation. Be it in your history or where you were born. People should be proud of their own achievements and skills, not of where they or their ancestors slipped out of a vagina.

                                      [–]Sunnyingrid 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      What I think is happening with him is that since you have an identity other than American he also wants a different identity. His talk about racism and war sounds like someone trying one up you. Or more a charitable explanation is that he is trying to relate to you.

                                      [–]CommentingThrowaway8 27ポイント28ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      If he is totally convinced, encourage him to try a DNA test like Ancestry or 23andMe for a bit of a wake up call. They are a tad expensive for a fun little activity but they give accurate break downs of which regions your family come from.

                                      If he truly has Irish roots and is just being really weird about it then you need to have a little talk with him. You need to talk to him from a point of concern, rather than accusing him of embarrassing behavior otherwise he will get defensive.

                                      Something like ''Boyfriend, I have noticed recently that you're trying really hard to prove to everyone that you're Irish. Is something going on? Are you having an identity crisis? Is your Grandma OK?''

                                      It could be something odd like he is jealous of you having such a strong cultural and ethnic identity.

                                      [–]DontYouCryNoMore 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      I did 23andme and I thought it was interesting to learn (even though I am just basically a white girl) and it actually told me some pretty cool things about myself

                                      [–]inksmudgedhands 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      You can't write a sentence like that without telling what were the cool things. I am curious. Please, share with the class! I've always wanted to do 23andme but I can never bring myself to spend the money.

                                      [–]DStaniforth 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I did one of those and I am pretty much completely British/Irish, absolutely nothing unexpected in the lineage. The only thing remarkable was that I had less Neanderthal DNA than I normal for my region.

                                      [–]jniamh 16ポイント17ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      This is ridiculous. The IRA as a political organisation is dormant, and the people they've helped install in government are famously corrupt thugs. The IRA is essentially just an organised drug operation now. He needs to do some actual research - or maybe you do it, and show it to him, to make him realise he's just 'supporting' a bunch of dealers.

                                      I can't believe he went and got the tattoo...globalisation has imported US culture everywhere, so identifying with your US background may seem like either something literally everyone is already doing, or like water to a fish, or I've seen a lot of stereotypes about blind patriotism from right-wing/religious US types that he might be trying to avoid.

                                      The racist discrimination also occurred nearly entirely in the 50s, in terms of being denied jobs / housing etc, it's absolutely ridiculous for him to be moping about it now. It was simultaneous to the same discrimination towards black people - except that Irish people quickly became assimilated and exempt from this behaviour in a way black people didn't for much longer. It's actually a much more interesting and historically accurate topic he could look into - how Irish people assimilated into the modern concept of whiteness (e.g. How the Irish became White - Noel Ignatiev as a starting point).

                                      [–]7up8down9left 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      This is ridiculous. The IRA as a political organisation is dormant, and the people they've helped install in government are famously corrupt thugs. The IRA is essentially just an organised drug operation now. He needs to do some actual research - or maybe you do it, and show it to him, to make him realise he's just 'supporting' a bunch of dealers.

                                      I mean, you can make that claim about most politicians; the IRA has also split up between a less violent form and then the splinter groups (which have remained involved in the drugs/arms trade). Not disagreeing with you, rather I'm just pointing out that treating the IRA as a single entity isn't entirely accurate.

                                      [–]zWraith 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      I mean it is technically but not realistically.

                                      I don't know, it seems to me that you are kind of bashing him for his culture... He probably saw how close you were to your roots and wanted to find out more about his. So upon doing research and taking a trip, he discovered that he is extremely interested in his Irish roots.

                                      Sure, he might be being a little neurotic about it because he's excited. I think if you would be more supportive, he would probably tone it down a little bit. Especially the "experienced equal racism" part. Cause that's a little... yea...

                                      But at the end of the day, he's excited about his heritage and this seems to be more about you thinking he hasn't gone through as much as you have so it shouldn't count.

                                      [–]Jon76 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Finally, a level headed person.

                                      OP's boyfriend is being idiotic but I don't see how it's any different than OP's holier-than-thou attitude when they were not born in Pakistan.

                                      [–]zWraith 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Exactly. I think it would be more productive to support him and try to educate him on how he is being insensitive he is with the IRA thing and stuff.

                                      [–]Password_isnt_weak 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I'm gonna go a little against the crowd with this one. I'm Irish too but have emigrated and maybe have a slightly different view on nationality. I would never laugh at an American telling me they are Irish. A few years ago before I left the country maybe I would have but some people just need something to belong too. Your closeness to your culture is obviously something he admires and wants to replicate in some way. Taking the piss out of him for admiring you is a bit much.

                                      People believe having a different culture makes you interesting and unique and when you first move abroad this is the case but after a while and a few different countries you realise there's not much difference in people anywhere.

                                      I don't think what he is doing is bad, he just needs to tone it down a bit. Try and see it as a compliment towards you and yours.

                                      [–]weirdo_cat 17ポイント18ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      EUGH.

                                      Speaking as a Scottish person, he sounds annoying as shit.

                                      [–]RustingDragon 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      'My grandad's cousin's dog was from Scotland, I'm just as Scotch as you are!'

                                      [–]ShelfLifeInc 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Maybe ask him, "What do you think it means to be Irish?" I mean, does having some ancestors make him Irish? Does visiting Ireland once make him Irish? Does having an Irish flag on his bicep make him Irish?

                                      I mean, I have two Polish parents, my extended family speak Polish, we celebrate holidays in the Polish style. And even I don't feel Polish (well, maybe marginally). Ask him what experiences he shares with an Irish person.

                                      Also, find out what he is missing in his life that he feels he needs to bulk up his identity with being Irish. Why is he so insecure in himself that he needs a "people" to be a part of? Because he's not going to walk into an Irish pub and find a crowd of Irish guys waiting to call him brother and hand him a pint of Guinness. So what is it? Is he ashamed of being American and wants to be Irish (so he doesn't have to feel like he's responsible for Trump)? Does he feel like having a "heritage" makes him more interesting? Does he feel like he's missing a community?

                                      Alternatively, just say, "You know you sound like an idiot when you talk like that. Knock it off."

                                      [–]ReinierPersoon 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Very few people speak Irish Gaelic in Ireland.

                                      [–]Jupiter__Jones 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Have you expressed to him how this makes you feel? You didn't mention that or how he responded so it's difficult to know where you need to go from here.

                                      [–]anyanka_eg 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      My family on both sides have Viking ancestry, but I'm not going to buy and axe and mount a raiding party. I'm British, it's interesting to know your ancestors, but I'm still just British.

                                      [–]ohmephisto 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Did you find that out by doing a DNA test or by genealogy?

                                      [–]ayeayefitlike 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      This! I'm Scottish, have Viking and Norman ancestry - I'd get laughed out of Norway or France if I claimed their culture!

                                      [–]ILiveInAMango 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Was he just as ignorant before his Irish phase? Has he changed besides this? More emotional or more closed than before? Perhaps he's depressed and needs to find himself or something.

                                      [–]TallFriendlyGinger 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I can understand wanting to connect to your family's heritage and culture, but all the other stuff (tattoo, IRA, actually claiming to be Irish) is too far. My Nonna was italian, and the only grandparent who was alive when I was born. My mother speaks Italian, and although we were raised (obviously) English, there were still little Italian hangovers from how my Nonna raised my mother.

                                      I do like to get involved in that side of our family, I've visited relatives a few times when I was younger but I would never claim I was actually Italian. I would say I'm part, or just that my Nonna was. I can understand wanting to connect with the older generations of your family but your boyfriend is taking it way too far.

                                      [–]Tonguenstein 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Break up with the guy if you find him so annoying. Let him find another Irish weeaboo that doesn't obviously resent him.

                                      It's OK to be peeved with your partner, but if this is a deal breaker then move on. If I were him, I wouldn't want to be with somebody who had to resort to complaining about my quirks (obnoxious as they may be) to a bunch of Internet strangers rather than addressing the issue with me face to face.

                                      This isn't an attack on you, so I'm sorry if it seems like I'm being sanctimonious. This is part of dating. You discover the parts of a person you don't like and you choose to take it or leave it. Or you can try to change each other.

                                      [–]cailinnabealtaine 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      He definitely does not support the IRA. What a f*cking eejit!

                                      Unless he has a right to an Irish passport, he's not Irish. Fair play if he wants to learn more about his heritage because the language is beautiful and important but it doesn't sound like that.

                                      More to the point, Irish people were treated like shit but we are white and we have white privilege. The two right now are not comparable, maybe a hundred years ago but not now.

                                      [–]weirdo_cat 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

                                      EUGH.

                                      Speaking as a Scottish person, he sounds annoying as shit.

                                      [–]Attack_Symmetra 4ポイント5ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                      In my experience Scotts tend to hate Americans that claim to be "X" more than any other culture. And after hearing examples of it I'd say that Americans with Scottish ancestor do seem like the most annoying.

                                      [–]realberbersilver 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      I don't know why it is that the Irish/Scottish Americans are the worst about it. I have friends with a variety of European ancestries that they're only vaguely connected to--they know some of the old family recipes, celebrate the holidays in a way that's a bit German/Norwegian/Polish/Greek, maybe visit the country their ancestors came from and learn a bit about it, etc. But none of them get nearly as annoying as the ones who "hail from" Ireland.

                                      [–]Eiriktherod 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      I know really annoying Americans who claim to have Swedish ancestry and claim to be Swedish. They even have weird swede genealogy meetups where they do Scandinavian traditions and cook Scandinavian recipes (except nothing they eat or do is actually done in Sweden). Once tried to claim that those fat american pancakes with baking powder was a Swedish pancake, dude no; have you ever seen a Swedish pancake? It's almost racist because it's such a skewed view of nordic culture.

                                      [–]Stark_as_summer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      This really made me laugh. I used to get asked if I had "Swedish ancestry" when I worked customer service. Nope, I'm as Canadian as they come. "But where did your ancestors come from?" England or some shit, but it's got nothing to do with me.

                                      [–]daintyladyfingers 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      I think it's because America has generally fun, positive stereotypes of the Irish and Scots. And you get some kind of +5 Celtic mysticism bonus.

                                      [–]RustingDragon 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      +5 bonus is only granted by Hollyrood after finishing your first bottle of buckie. Not many visitors survive.

                                      [–]NoInspi2 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      What does the fact you're Scottish have to do with anything?

                                      [–]Smished 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      Did some more research. Told me he supported the IRA. Bitchwhatthefuck. So on and so forth for the past 4 or 5 months, culminating in last week when he decided to get a fucking Irish flag tattooed on his bicep.

                                      i think your boyfriend is very stupid. do you want to have kids with a stupid person? would you like to live your life entwined with the fate of an idiot?

                                      for me, it's a no.

                                      [–]realberbersilver 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Also, as we've seen before on this sub, the risk with kids is that he'll insist that his constructed Irish heritage is just as important as (or more important than) her lived Pakistani heritage.

                                      [–]Takarasienne 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      My mum is from an Irish Catholic family. To her, being Irish means spending summers there as a child, until the year she saw a soldier get shot in the head in front of her. Being Irish meant you had to be ready to head for cover at a moment's notice. Being Irish means she was a source of shame; her incredibly religious family forced her mother into a convent after she had a baby (my mum, who was then raised by her grandma.) out of wedlock. Being Irish means she was prevented from visiting the man she was raised to see as her father whilst he was dying, as she was pregnant out of wedlock herself and "the shock would kill him". Being Irish meant years of being bullied at school, facing aggressive sectarianism every day from a young age, being treated by society as a point of shame, and by her family because of the circumstances of her birth. She doesn't even identify as Irish, she was born elsewhere, it was her family that did. Being Irish isn't just suddenly deciding you get to be Irish when the most Irish thing you do as a white American is occasionally drink Guiness for the novelty of it. You can't just pick up a culture and claim it's yours because you want to turn everything into oppression olympics. Tell him he's an absolute wally, tell him he's demeaning your experiences, tell him he looks like a joke. And if he said he supported the IRA to my mum, she'd fucking skin him.

                                      [–]Baron_Greenback 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      I'm an English guy in the US. I went looking for a new car, and one sales chap noticed the accent and said "I'm English too! My last name is Shropshire!" He spent the next hour putting on a fake English accent and talking to me about the Queen. I did not buy a car from him. I'm still not sure if he thought he was being funny, or if perhaps he thought I was faking the accent - no clue. I wouldn't say I was offended by it, but I'm still.. confounded.

                                      [–]helendestroy 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Came back 2 weeks later saying "it wasn't I expected

                                      Did he think he was running away to live with the Leprechauns? JFC.

                                      He also claims that he's experienced 'equal' racism for being 'Irish' as I have for being Pakistani.

                                      That's what I'd can him for, tbh.. He has no respect for actual racism and is looking for an excuse to claim victimhood. He's too old to be this foolish and have people just run with it.

                                      [–]applekins20 18ポイント19ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                      You're right on many levels that your boyfriend suddenly supporting the IRA and making racial comparisons is completely out of line and unacceptable.

                                      But he has every right to connect with the roots of his family. At some point (although I believe it's been removed) there were ways to get your Irish citizenship if you were a direct descendant. So while there's an Irish poster saying OP is annoying (true), governments have still encouraged "coming back to home" by enabling people who have direct Irish grandparents to get their citizenship (source: Citizensinformation.ie).

                                      My friend was raised in a Brazilian-Jewish family (in Canada) and only knew a bit of Portuguese. But it wasn't until she became a young adult that she actually became interested in it, visited Israel and Brazil and embraced that side of her family. Is she 'whitebread' in your eyes because she didn't grow up with her culture like you did?

                                      If you want to dump him because he's being an ignorant, racist, jerk, do so. But don't insult him because he wants to connect with his roots.

                                      EDIT:

                                      Adding because it's a really unfair perspective:

                                      I'm Pakistani and have a strong connection with the culture even though I was raised in America because my parents were born & raised in Pakistan, I speak fluent Urdu, have visited family there many times, parents insisted we stay close to the culture

                                      Just like him, you had no control over how your parents chose to raise you. You don't get to look down on your BF because your parents chose to fly you back home, chose to raise you in Urdu and chose to keep Pakistani culture in the household. His parents at some point rejected their Irish culture and he was raised in that environment.

                                      Kids typically don't have the power to demand that the household speak Gaelic and that they been flown to Ireland every couple of years.

                                      [–]lunakitty_ 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

                                      It's one thing to say you have x roots, or you descended from x. It's another entirely to then claim that nationality yourself and get a damn flag tattoo in the space of a month, and that's not even touching on the IRA nonsense. His forced claim to disenfranchisement drives it home to me that he just wants to be a special snowflake instead of just being American. That is why he's whitebread, he's so clearly aching to be different when he's really not.

                                      Complete different situation to your friend, don't know why you'd even want to make that comparison tbh.

                                      [–]applekins20 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      The government would allow him to get citizenship! He can claim nationality if he desires. In their eyes he's right.

                                      This has been essentially happening publicly for half a year but we don't know what he was thinking before. We just have OP's viewpoint on it. But it seems unlikely he 'just woke up' one day thinking about it. It's fair to also consider that this is something he's always thought of but didn't have the courage until he was with his gf.

                                      I'm not saying the BF is justified in his racial comments and supporting terrorism. I'm that everyone has a right to reconnect with their roots and OP should dump him because he's an ignorant ass who supports terrorism, rather than him choosing embrace his Irish ancestry.

                                      PS- my friend changed her perspective in the space of under a year. She didn't get a tattoo but suddenly the family had chrismakkuh and she took that Jewish trip despite having only researched the Jewish religion (and not practiced).

                                      [–]mm172 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      If your friend told someone who was raised Jewish that celebrating "Chrismukkah" represented her embracing her heritage, she'd stand just as much of a chance of getting laughed at (or an angry reaction, particularly from older Jews; she is aware the story of Hanukkah is about not letting Jewish practices be subsumed by other cultures, right?) as the boyfriend would in telling Dubliners he's one of them. So I think the question is similar: is this about really studying one's roots beyond the superficial, or is it about finding cool stuff to tack on to one's identity?

                                      [–]threesquares 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Getting a visa from the government will not make him Irish! I'm English, so I can move anywhere in Europe if I like, but me moving to France would never in a million years make me French.

                                      Even if I moved tomorrow and lived there for the next fifty years, I would always be English. OPs boyfriend is, and always will be, American.

                                      [–]illinoiscentralst 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      He ain't connecting with his roots, he's just looking for a ready-made identity to slap on so that he doesn't have to actually find his own fucking place in the world. Connecting to your roots means you find out about your roots, but you also respect these roots and that they only shaped you to a certain degree, and your other cultural experiences (such as for your friend Canada or for OP's boyfriend the US) have participated maybe just as much or even more.

                                      [–]AnotherFineProduct 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      If you would want to be considered "just as American as anyone else" when it benefits you, and still claim your Pakistani heritage, then you don't have a leg to stand on judging your boyfriend. Either you're both Americans claiming your ancestor's heritage or you're saying you're somehow less American than him.

                                      See what happens when you turn it into a pissing contest? Grow up, you're being unbelievable petty and it's unbecoming.

                                      [–]mm172 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                      OP is the daughter of immigrants. She's not talking about her "ancestors" when she talks about her heritage; she's talking about immediate family, and her own experiences dealing with people who think she's not American enough. How is that equally or more "unbecoming" than her boyfriend trying to claim he knows the pain of discrimination because of an historical bias that no longer exists?

                                      [–]alex3omg 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Sounds like his actual grandparents are from there so Idk. Why is it anyone's business how he identifies? It sounds a little annoying but who cares. I think he's just a little dumb and obnoxious. The ira thing is probably ignorance, he might just support Irish independence for example and phrased it retardedly.

                                      [–]Bonobosaurus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      In Boston pretty much all the Irish guys are like this. If your grandparents were Irish citizens you can get your citizenship there as well. It's a big thing here.

                                      [–]ura_walrus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Yes, if he is white, has only recently started trying to appreciate his heritage, and if he does not understand it in exactly a PC way, then you should judge him and post it on the internet before talking to him like a good friend and girlfriend would.

                                      You just righteously called your boyfriend "whitebread american" and "pathetic." You are a rude and crude person, and I hope you do him a favor and breakup with him..

                                      [–]WilliamHarry 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      A lot of Americans in my neck of the woods act like this. It's mostly people of Irish and Italian heritage. They act as if they're true bloods. They hang flags and even get them tattooed, yet they haven't had any connection with those countries in a hundred years. It's pretty funny really. Your boyfriend sounds pretty dumb.. maybe find another?

                                      [–]iWriteC0de 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Does he like mma? Maybe he's been spurred on by Conor McGregor's recent wins :D

                                      [–]atonalnocturne 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      OP, I suggest you read up on White Racial Identity Development. These examples you're talking about are extreme, to be sure, but it sounds like your BF is trying to form a racial identity that goes beyond "racist white American." He sees that you and your family/non-white friends have a distinct cultural identity and wants that for himself, too. As annoying as his behavior is, it's pretty common. With time and introspection, he might be able to claim an authentic racial identity that embraces his Irish heritage without grasping for false equivalency with your Pakistani heritage and culture.

                                      [–]NoInspi2 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                      If you can be Pakistani why can't he be Irish? What's the difference?

                                      [–]_Woodrow_ 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                      It really bugs me that she thinks she is some kind of gatekeeper on him having pride in his heritage especially with the hypocrisy of her stated pride in her own heritage.

                                      [–]catjuggler 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      It's a pretty common thing in the US, a "country of immigrants" (more or less) to have interest in your ancestors' countries of origin. It is also a common phrasing to say you're "irish" "german" etc. not meaning in nationality, but in genetics and lineage. When you are from a country where your ancestors were also from that country, this is just something that is difficult to relate to, but that doesn't make it wrong.

                                      People with Irish ancestry in the US often haven't been to Ireland because most people in the US haven't had a chance to visit their "homeland" since travel isn't cheap. I'm not sure how you're both judging his family for not visiting Ireland and judging him for visiting Ireland at the same time. It's a different thing to be recent immigrants vs. more distant immigrants. My dad's grandmother spoke only German but I doubt he or his mother have ever been to Germany (because flying places was unaffordable for previous generations).

                                      I think you guys are being petty for judging him for this.

                                      [–]Bomber2Musketeer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      Noticing lots of people suddenly embracing their Irish side since Conor McGregor.

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