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Drunk Captain Getting Silent Treatment (self.askMRP)

betabopper が 投稿

Been at this for 6-7 months with my MAP. See OYS for more.

Recently on wife's bday, she was fixing dinner and asked me if I wanted anything else (because she knew she didn't make enough and Mac and Cheese plus reheated soup hardly count) and I said pokechops, which take only a minute to fry. She got all fussy and put out about this and pulled away. I lost frame and failed a shit test when I said "you don't have to be a bitch about it."

She lost her cool for a minute and said stuff like you only want me for sex and cooking ("no, I also like your baking" but it just threw fuel on the fire). Later that evening I told her I regret my words and mistakes were made.

Since the baking comment, I've gotten the silent treatment, which I respond to as if life just goes on. She slept in the guest bed last night.

Lots about her. So let's start on me.

The silent treatment used to break me and have me running to make up. My need for valuation was really high but it's not as bad as it used to be. This is an opportunity for me to witness the main manipulation at the heart of my marriage and to observe my responses to it.

But a big part of me feels like a failure for being a drunk captain who ruined the first mate's birthday by being a drunk and verbally abusive captain. I'd like to tell her once she's had some time that I failed her and the family and that I owe the her and the family better. But I don't want to validate the silent treatment by groveling with an apology and entering her frame. I will enjoy the silence as I refuse to empower the manipulation by giving in but feel the need to set things right first. Any suggestions for a lunkhead like me?

Edit: I keep reading and finding myself coming back to the anger again and again. Recently, I started reading the Manipulated Man and it set me off again. My wife is quality and does little bitching or nagging. It's just that we hit a point with two kids where she had no attraction (I'm 6'4" and now 203 lbs and 14% bf with six pack). I also just realized in my OYS that DL6 needs work from me and lots more leading.

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[–]TheFamilyAlphaPro-Masculine Evangelist 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

Are you leading your clan?

Are you aware that she may be overwhelmed w/ kids, cooking, etc and could probably use a hand?

Have you led her to improving her level of fitness? Have you given her time to hit the gym or do her thing?

Did you recognize it was her birthday, do you guys usually do something or just hang in?

The picture you give is so vague I have no idea what's going on but you seem like an entitled fuck.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have work to do in leading her, for sure. But I run the show at home with regards to the kids. I get them off to school and pick them up as she leaves early and comes home late, I take them to practices, I cook a lot of the meals, I like a clean house so I do everything I can and not from a sense of chore play.

She expressed an interest in running so we got her shoes to jog the neighborhood. Went once and always has an excuse. We're joining a gym with daycare in a month. But I recognize I need to lead more here.

I had everything ready for a fun family birthday at home. She somehow beat me home and had dinner going, but most days it's me.

The entitled fuck thing still resonates. We're both busting our asses but only one of us is using the term bitch.

[–]TheFamilyAlphaPro-Masculine Evangelist 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

Went once and always has an excuse.

You allow this? It's the perfect opportunity for you to teach her the concept of 'grit' and how thousands quit, few push and if she truly wants to reach her fitness goals then she can't quit.

As for the rest, you need a vision & mission man. You can't get thrown off the tracks because she got mad at you, probably rightfully so.

If she had any idea as to your plan or vision, she'd of gotten home and fucking relaxed and played w/ the kids instead of cooking.

You need to lead man, you need to stop letting life fuck you up, keep grinding and follow your vision for this family.

She isn't your enemy, she fucking wants a masculine man - so be that guy.

Let this go and just have some fucking fun with all of it.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I hear you loud and clear. Everything you said is true. I'm starting with the vision and mission as the vision is all in my head so it's the same as if there is no vision.

[–]TheFamilyAlphaPro-Masculine Evangelist 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Exactly, you don't need to explain yourself to this woman, but fuck man you don't want her trying to follow you lead when she has no idea where you're going.

If you explain nutrition, fitness, etc she can plan accordingly.

You don't need to micromanage when you crew knows exactly what is expected of them and to what standard.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yep, spot on. Communicating the vision up front, or on a regular basis, has ALWAYS been my Achilles heel. It started showing up at work where I lead teams and I act to correct it, but still not enough.

I make the mistake of assuming we're all competent people (and she is, big time) and that since I can see the destination and way points along the way, so can everybody else. I realize how stupid this sounds and know what I need to do.

Where there is no vision, the people perish.

[–]bangorlol 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

What I would do if I were in this situation:

  1. If you have kids, find a babysitter.
  2. Get her to speak with you again. You STFU during this. Get her close to you and be a dad. Hug her, kiss her forehead, etc.
  3. Let her cry out her feelings. Again, STFU.
  4. Do something funny like lick her tears and say something goofy to lighten the mood and signal the end of the "discussion"
  5. Tell her to dress up and be ready to go in X time for a quality meal and/or entertainment.
  6. Show her a good time through your actions.

My perception

The entire notion of being treated special on your birthday is a huge covert contract, but it's an expected one that can do great things for your marriage and other relationships if you play it well.

You let her cook her own birthday dinner that consisted of garbage, ignored the cue to step in and salvage the dinner and lead (her asking if you wanted anything else - she was letting you know it could be saved by you), then got pissy and lashed out because she showed her anger, resentment, and disappointment with you. You didn't disarm her feelings through touch (hug/kiss/etc). You let the butthurt flow and all but apologized to her without forcing closure on the entire debacle through positive, masculine action.

Where was the comfort? Where was the romance? Where was the attraction? Your wife has given you several chances to lead properly and display all of the traits above but you just haven't noticed it. Your biggest enemy at this stage in your MAP is yourself, not your wife.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Damn, when you say it like that, I sure come up short. Spot on, at any rate.

I was hugging her when the sourness started flowing and I think the proximity made it feel too fast and real to handle with frame when she started pulling away.

Captain Butthurt, that's my name.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

This doesn't sit well with me. Can't put my finger on why

[–]bangorlol 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I had the same thought while writing it tbh. Closest I came was kinda identifying the feeling as annoyance that I'm essentially okay-ing covert contracts and being emphatic to his wife while in a dojo of male self-improvement.

[–]Bread_Pilled 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Frame is exceedingly important. That said, it appears that you have yet to develop the frame that you desire to. Keep trying. Keep leading. Keep pushing. Eventually, you're frame will be that of the man you wish to be.

Now, an analysis:

Recently on wife's bday, she was fixing dinner and asked me if I wanted anything else (because she knew she didn't make enough and Mac and Cheese plus reheated soup hardly count) and I said pokechops, which take only a minute to fry. She got all fussy and put out about this and pulled away. I lost frame and failed a shit test when I said "you don't have to be a bitch about it."

A spouse is preparing a Mac and Cheese and reheated soup dinner on her own birthday. Is this typical? Are unhealthy meals and leftovers something that provides satisfactory nourishment for loved ones in their birthday?

Then, since there is not enough, she asks "what, dear husband, would you would like to eat?" and you tell her. Fantastic work my friend.

Unfortunately, it is downhill from here. A tantrum is thrown and the man of the house exits his frame by (1) insulting his wife, (2) a weak attempt at agree and amplify, (3) a statement of regret, (4) an emotional response to her attempt to manipulate you via the silent treatment.

Would this situation not have better been addressed by the man of the house leading what plans are made for dinner? Was telling the wife to "not be a bitch about it" out of your frame? Was the statement of regret made from a source of fear of what would happen if it wasn't made, and how did that turn out for you?

As far as the silent treatment is concerned: it is childish. It is the adult version of a two year old temper tantrum. Do not cater to it. Instead, enjoy the silence. Thrive in it. For you are left to your own devices free from distraction. Instead of wallowing in the silence of your spouse, take it as an opportunity to better yourself, either through lifting, hobbies, social activities, or things you enjoy.

It is better than the alternative.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not typical. Usually I have something better going. I could have led better in this situation, no doubt.

Your questions at helpful. I'm going to think through them.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (7子コメント)

WISNIFG, to a T

you went from

I said pokechops, which take only a minute to fry

to

But a big part of me feels like a failure for being a drunk captain who ruined the first mate's birthday by being a drunk and verbally abusive captain.

Stop being a pussy

[–]betabopper[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

Well said. I'm working on it. Thanks.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Assuming you've laid it all out, the only reason her mood lasted as long as it did was because you validated it. Women will always be in bitchy moods. as soon as you engage it as a real thing, it solidifies it, and now she has an anchor.

Case in point. in the last 16 hours (minus sleep) I've had the following emotional states thrown at me.

  1. Baby wants candy and has tempter tantrum when I don't jump to get it
  2. Stuff I do creating distance in relationship, since I don't jump
  3. Blame for making her mad, when I did get up to go for a walk, it wasn't kind enough
  4. Constant affection and cuddling with sweet nothings,
  5. morning edging doubling down into BJ to prove she still 'has it'
  6. pissed that only she cleans up after dogs in morning

If I reacted to all this shit, I'd never get any work done. Just like anything, fog if it's valid but not wanting to encourage it, AA if its retarded or AM if she's acting a child.

[–]Spaw-1-4-5 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

"AA if it's retarded or AM if she's acting like a child"

This resonates with me. Lmao. Something that will stick in my head forever.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

She does almost none of this kind of emotional stuff so that's why I think of her as quality. She's fairly even keeled but often lists in a downward, poor me direction.

So I lack the kind of practice some of you guys get when it does occasionally flairs up. Instead, I have spent most of my time focused on making sure I've got my nose in all of the ship's business so she doesn't feel overwhelmed, as she is wont to do.

This strategy of mine needs work.

[–]stonepimpletilistsMod / Red Beret 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Meh. I know a lot of guys here like that, I find it has a 'building better beta' feel to it. Not a fan.

I know if I handle my shit. I know sometimes I like wasting time doing nothing, and I sure as fuck am not going to indulge a temper tantrum, because my captains schedule is slower paced than her expectations.

I say let her get overwhelmed, it's a great time to calibrate expectations. Next time, make a grilled cheese, or just tell me to fend for myself.

Know what I did last valentines? I took her to laser tag, bought her a pack of skittles, and drank together. She bitched constantly before hand about flowers and the works, but fuck if she wasn't happy as shit that day, and loves to tell me the story about how I pistol whipped a 10 year old kid that night.

Your head is firmly in her ass, grow a pair, own your ship. You run it to your standard, and it's a standard you can be proud of, the rest is just noise IMO

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Funny how you and TFA are basically saying the same thing. Congruence seldom lies.

Indeed, I'm having a good look at her large intestines at the moment, my head is so far up there.

[–]UEMcGillI am become McGill, Destroyer of Blue Pill 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

If she was being a bitch why did you apologize for it?

Fuck her and her attitude. She asked if you wanted something else and you answered. She had a fit, you called her in her shit. Now you're having an existential crisis?

Unplug the emotional hose. Frame, no frame; Fuck all that shit. It would have ended the moment you said "you're being a bitch" and owned it. She was you pussied out.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why? Because apparently whatever frame I have evaporated next to what I have been conditioned to expect is coming after I challenge her in asshole fashion. Thanks, this is a good perspective.

[–]nastynickdr 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah man, you kinda screwed up. Not taking into account the fact that your frame is weak and you have been a drunken captain, she had to do mac and cheese on her birthday. When she asked if you wanted anything else (I bet it was on a "anything else for your highness" tone), you could have just gone "get dressed, we are going to xxxx".

About the silent treatment, never let her bad mood affect you. Keep being playful and witty, tease her, work on your MAP, go lift, grab a beer with your friends, work on your projects, your outside hobbies, whatever you do dont enter her "im in a bad mood so you should be too" frame.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

When she's like this, she resists all forms of rapprochement, except beta groveling. I'm going to follow your advice and be playful up to the point that any negative behavior warrants removal of time and attention.

[–]cholomiteMod / BP Downvote Magnet 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Your game and your frame sound a little weak. Your comebacks are ok but you don't have the balls to back them up. The baking thing was good, but you didn't confidently own it afterwards so she knew it was fake alpha and got angry. You have the physical attraction part down but you need to develop better "cocky/funny" skills.

Here is how I handle silent treatment, or just a bad mood by my girl in general. I tease the shit out of her and piss her off while I also have very happy, loving and upbeat body language. Tell her you're loving the peace and quiet while going in for a hug, or ask her if she can keep the silent treatment going for another week while you pick her up and carry her to bed. That kind of push/pull, back and forth type stuff generally works pretty well for me.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks, the up beat body language and attitude are key. I got to have the congruence when I engage.

Right on on the game. I had none when I started and have made some progress but it's weak nonetheless. The frame thing seemed good until shit hit the fan, then I crumbled momentarily.

[–]redearththeory 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Recently on wife's bday

I'm a pretty big asshole to my wife when given half a reason to be. But even I try to be nice to her on her birthday.

"no, I also like your baking"

Good response, but say it while laughing and give her a hug and a kiss on the forehead at the same time.

verbally abusive captain

Nothing you said qualifies as verbal abuse.

I'd like to tell her once she's had some time that I failed her and the family and that I owe the her and the family better.

I wouldn't go that far. You were a bit more of an asshole than you needed to be. Thats a fault, but its a reasonable fault of a high value man. Err on that side before you err on the side of being a beta pussy. Instead of a profuse apology, I'd do a sequence of things that add value to her life, and then STFU about how you were an asshole and the good things you did. Let her find the good things you did and conclude you're a bit of an asshole but a high value man.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I keep thinking I'm taking her emotions too seriously. I'm not being enough of an asshole in this regard. I like the asshole rule and will apply it. And once applied, own the outcome.

At least she's feeling something right now and is likely enjoying the roller coaster.

[–]redearththeory 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I keep thinking I'm taking her emotions too seriously. I'm not being enough of an asshole in this regard.

You have more choices than just being a beta or an asshole. You can refuse to be controlled by her disapproval and not let her decide whether your behavior is acceptable (cause you're a grown man who decides his own standards) but also not actively be an insulting asshole without a good reason. Just laugh, joke, tease, shrug and treat her judgement of you as irrelevant.

[–]betabopper[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for this follow up. WISNIFG has helped quite a bit as I was way worse before...Grima Wormtongue bad.

I just downloaded Gorilla Mindset and will put in the work to work towards the internal mindset I have been striving for but I have allowed to elude me.

I'd been tacitly fooling myself into thinking that I was holding frame externally but I often get wracked by an inner emotional turmoil after the fact when I'm out of sight. She must pick up on this with her bloodhound sense for weakness.

[–]Nyquil-Junkie 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

She got pissed because you wanted pokechops (I assume you mean pork chops) and then you returned her shitty remark with humor? THEN she slept in another room to punish you?

Dude you need a divorce and a new wife who will gladly make you pokechops.

But you were drunk.

[–]betabopper[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

She used to gladly make me pokechops (yes, I mean pork chops). I'd like to improve to the point where this kind of thing isn't an issue. Holding frame come hell or high water is a god first step. And if it keeps coming up, then reassess. I have work to do in the meantime.

Another wife would follow the same pattern so I gotta do me first.