I replied to someone on the MGTOW reddit where he described how he got into MGTOW/PUA and ended up writing a whole wall of text, which I think this sub might appreciate.

Original Post im replying to: https://np.reddit.com/r/MGTOW/comments/5cxhoz/my_story_on_how_i_found_mgtow/

"Long response ahead in which I will try and take apart your post. I am not going to try to sugar coat it.

This post is really sad. Probably not for the fact that you went MGTOW (although it might be), but you went MGTOW at such a young age.

You were a 17 year old that was raging with hormones and obviously you wanted a girlfriend. There is nothing bad, shameful, lame w/e about it. I completely understand you. And I'd say its not the fault of the romantic movies (Are you really trying to tell me you were watching romantic movies as a teenager?) or anime, its because humans have been monogamous creatures for thousands of years (although it does differ with radically different cultures). So seeking an emotional and sexual partner at that stage of your life is perfectly normal and the fact that you described yourself as a "nice guy" just shows you didn't interact with women a lot as teenager. (Which will also be more aparent later on in your post.) But again, men and women can be really shy and weird around each other with those sexual feelings and stuff.

The fact that you started planning and looking for a job was mature of you, however, this is where I feel your post starts derailing into a sad tale of failure.

First thing that stuck out to me was: "I was always thinking rational . I knew emotions are my weakness but sometimes emotions override your logical decisions." That attitude is very unhealthy. Surpressing your emotions can be very devastating for your mental health, personality and mood. I have been like you... that mindset landed me in therapy for not being able to communicate with other people that I care about on a deeper level, which eventually led me to depression. But this is not about me, its about you, so my advice would be to not surpress it. Be happy when you can, be angry when needed but do not bottle it up. To appeal to your logical side, there are countless psychological studies on the effects of surpressed emotions, go read up on that.

And I do see that you are logical and interested in educating yourself. That is a brilliant thing and the way you were able to admit to yourself that not all answers on the Internet are correct shows that you are smart (many people are not that smart sadly). But the search for knowledge can turn against you, even if you are careful.

And in my opinion (key word: opinion), the knowledge has turned against you. You say you wanted to become a player, the one who sleeps around with a lot of women, and that it would be your ideal... but didn't you say in your first paragraph that you were looking for a girlfriend? You cant become a player, even if you wanted it. You are born one, conditioned from an early age by good parents, lots of friends and superior genetics which give you height and good looks and if you think that a book can make you a player, instead of years of conditioning and attractiveness, you are very wrong.

So my question is, why then you still wanted a girlfriend if you wanted to be a player? Being a player in a relationship would make you the lowest of the scum - a cheater (I dont care if its a woman cheating or a man cheating, both are subhuman scum). You googled "How to get a girlfriend" (which in itself will lead to tons of internet garbage spouted by pseudo intelectual "relationship experts") and got a book thats called "How to get LAID". Are you serious here? Looking for a girlfriend... by first looking at how to get into a girls pants? Has that every worked for anybody else (except for Chad T's which are a minority) in a real life scenario? Even if it did work, it would show that the girl is most likely not girlfriend material. What you should have read instead, is how to be a person that everyone is attracted. There is a reason why the funny/interesting-but-not-the-best-looking guy in a group always has a girlfriend. This is where your problems lie.

And notice, that throughout all of that which was written so far, you have not mentioned a single time, of when you would try to go out and socialize with your social circle and trying your luck with girls there. This is a big problem because it can kind off shroud girls in this mystery cloud... There is a lot of tips/books/videos on how to talk to girls, how to stand,sit even spread your legs (im not kidding) and all of it is bullshit. Girls - are not that different from guys unlike most MGTOW would say. There is no big ulterior motive in every girls head on how to make a guy pay for the date or hurt him or cheat on him... Women, the same as men, do not have a hive mind and the most extreme example of it would be to look at muslim women. Women there are almost fundamentally different in every way compared to the west or asian countries.

Not all women are like that (Please God protect me from the downvotes) JUST LIKE... not all men are pigs/rapists/sexual predators/misogynists. A lot of MGTOW rhetoric is very similar to feminist rhetoric.

*All women are like that = All men are pigs *Women dont love men = Men always cheat *Women only want a beta cuck to provide for them = Men only want a woman to fuck her and objectify her to serve only for his needs. *All women will cheat with a Chad = All men will cheat with Angelina Jolie (or any other attractive celebrity).

You went down the rabbit hole which was caused by sexual frustration and emotional need for connection and chose to go down the PUA path which merely tries to imitate what a Chad Thundercock and Player had their whole lives.

...and it gave you hope. PUA gave you hope because you thought got the "perfect answer" you were looking for and it also came with useful advice of doing things yourself for your own good. THAT... is good advice from PUA. THAT... is also a good advice from Red Pill and MGTOW.

"The first approach was the hardest. It was fighting with my inner self to go and act." You fought your inner fears and you beat yourself. That is great... but that effort went into a wrong direction.

"My friend said don't do it but I still did. Because I have to take the first step if I want to walk 1000 miles. I failed of course but at least the girls were open to talking. I failed of course and fast forward I was doing indirect lines. do you know how late it is directions etc? I became the guy who was approaching random girls on the street and kept failing all the time."

Your friend warned you. You ignored him and you failed. In most cases that wouldnt be a good reason to quit. But when you keep getting rejected over and over and over again, do you ever stop and think... is there anything wrong with my approach? Has it every crossed your mind, that PUA tactics were not working and instead were pushing other people away from you? No, you kept digging the hole deeper to a more complex thing, that you werent even close to achieving... marriage.

I am going to give credit to MGTOW for this... MGTOWs are right when they say that the institution of marriage is absolutely FUCKED in the West. It makes me so angry that governments just give hand outs to women in divorces. Getting children most of the time, getting most of the wealth, not to mention the fact that more than 50% of marriages fail. There is sexism. There is misandry against men in marriage/divorce and anyone who disagrees with that is either ignorant or sexist. (Please prove me wrong if you wish although I think this might be the wrong sub for that haha).

But this is where you tripped (figuratively). You talk about how you would be stripped of the ability to fuck other women (which havent had any luck with btw), and basically would have to actually commit. You were looking to commit to a girl, yet now you are just going completely against your previous needs and trying to rationalize it in any way possible. "Wife will get fat" "Wont be able to fuck other women" "Being restricted to one female".

The things that you write further only deepen your certainty that commitment is bad...and take an objectifying view on women. Yes, i know, i might sound like a fucking blue haired land whale feminist here, but bear with me for a second.

"Before I knew MGTOW(age 19) I already knew in my mind that a woman will become less beautiful as they age while I'm improving every single day."

You put an abnormal amount of importance on a womans looks over time while also uplifting yourself. Its an excuse for you to not try and attempt to go on dates with women and saying that you are better than them. I dont think that you arent improving in other areas of life... but your romantic side of life is worse than ever.

"I thought my worst case scenario would be that I would only fuck prostitutes if I could never get laid and pua would have failed for me." Do you not see that PUA HAS failed you? You were not able to get a girlfriend... heck, you werent even able to get REAL WOMEN to willingly have sex with without money. This is where your alarms should have been ringing.

"A relationship should be 50/50." Absolutely. A small grain of sanity in the sandbox of madness.

"And who the fuck wants to sacrifice two hours of work just so you have a slight chance to fuck her. Not worth it. That is one of the best things I learned. I'm so happy that I could think rational." Think rational? I hope you were sarcastic here and Poe's law applies here. You are literally viewing basic human mating strategy as time wasting because you cant fuck her. Excuse me? Do you realise what kind off an asshole that makes you? You have stripped your imaginery partner of any personality, any sense of humanity to fleshlight meant to serve only YOUR needs.

AND... IN FACT, MGTOW even talks about the analague of all this. This is the same as a gold digging whore exploiting a blue pill mangina for her selfish needs while completely disregarding his feelings. These are two sides, of the same coin.

MGTOW... although I used to love this movement i cant say the same anymore. Does a man, that goes his own way, constantly talk about "females", their sexual behaviour, their exploits, shit tests, emotional tamponing,branching? Is that what a man going his way truly is? A fixated manchild, crying about evil females. When I hear MGTOW I see a business man, a soldier, a nuclear scientist, a loayal friend and son... a fucking astronaut for christs sake. Not some weak ass man crying about women. (And dont even try to give me this bullshit of "We are not always talking about women". Just take a look at your Top All/frontpage or Sandmans youtube channel.)

"I was trying to figure out what MGTOW was. I watched a lot of MGTOW videos because the information they gave me was true. MGTOW has opened my eyes and told me te truth flat out straight." No. MGTOW has only confirmed your confirmation bias through your tinted glasses of reality. True is a word that I really hate. It cannot be used to describe reality, we can only talk about what is real and true is subjective.

"I had to rewire myself. " You became another cog in the machine, nothing more, nothing less. You think you have been accepted, that you accessed some forbidden knowledge... which is frightening which I wont mention the reasons why because I might get banned on this sub for that.

"I believe in aliens so I might also believe that a woman only loves resources." So you just choose to believe the idea that lets you shift the blame from yourself onto women.

You are yet again talking about how you are still doing PUA and its not working, "wasting of time", no my friend, PUA - is a waste of time. Human relationships are not worthless, because you have failed repeadetly because you used broken strategies and trying to apply them to different women, with different minds, ideas, passions and then being surprised why it doesnt work. You cant use a tactic/strategy to win someone over.

"The good thing I got from pua is that I got confidence out of it." I dont think you got confidence. I think you are still that insecure 17 year old at heart, who wasnt able to make peace with himself and admit to his shortcomings and chose to dehumanize 50% of the human population to merely childlike, dick sucking, gold digging whores. You are no better than a feminazi.

And you do think this way. Dont even try to deny it.

"They are only sex worth in my eyes." Your words.

And as an icing on the cake for the proof of how shit PUA is: "And my chance is lower than 0.1% even though I am a decent looking guy and that's reality and I have accepted it(700 tries)." 700 tries and no luck... I wonder why that might be...

May you also have the best life possible."