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Jaywalkers in Toronto (self.toronto)

zindagi786 が 投稿

I recently moved to Toronto for school. I'm from the Prairies.

Why do so many people jaywalk in Toronto? Don't people realize it's unsafe? Where's the police? In the city I'm from, the police officers give tickets to those who jaywalk!

Also, why do pedestrians enter a crosswalk when the timer indicates that there's less than 10 seconds before the light will change? I believe you're not supposed to start crossing the intersection once the timer starts and the flashing hand appears. Quite often, what happens, is that because people have entered the intersection so late, the light has already changed (and they're still crossing!). Furthermore, when people are crossing, they tend to walk slowly and casually.

Don't people realize that in addition to being unsafe, it's inconsiderate to motorists who are trying to make a right turn at the intersection?

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[–]mudkipzftwYorkville 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's not considered jaywalking in Ontario if you cross midblock, as long as you yield to traffic.

Crossing during the timer is technically jaywalking, but it's almost entirely unenforced. I only cross after the timer starts if I won't be blocking cars from turning and I'm sure I can cross before it ends. Why? Cause I got places to be.

It's not a Toronto thing. You'll see similar behaviour in most large cities in North America.

[–]crankybadgerTrinity-Bellwoods 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

It's because we don't give a fuck and we don't have time to sit around waiting for nothing.

If there's no traffic at a light I'll cross, I don't care, and a lot of people will be doing the same thing. Those light cycles are all over the place, some quick, some inexplicably slow. You need to stay alert, but you can do it safely if you don't put yourself in a dumb position.

[–]clearly2 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Oh please. Most people whole walk the red walk slowly and people who wait for greens end up beating them anyways.

[–]crankybadgerTrinity-Bellwoods [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Who walks slowly on a red? I don't take my time, I just go for it.

There are a lot of intersections along Queen West, as one example, where there's very little cross-traffic and the lights are long enough that most of the time there's zero cars that will hit you. Then there's University where the traffic is sufficiently clumpy that you could probably kneel down, tie your shoe, take a quick selfie, and go on your way without any risk of personal injury.

[–]impatient_and_unclev 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

We jaywalk because Toronto is busy and congested. There's a whole thread on the crosswalk countdown issue that might shed some light on it, but in short, most people here are constantly in a hurry and don't have time to wait 5 minutes at every intersection trying to get back to the office. I'll make a reasonable attempt to cross at the intersection before the counter starts, but I'm not going to wait for the next light if I can make it across safely without holding up drivers trying to turn.

Oh, and welcome to Toronto!

[–]zindagi786[S] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Thanks!

I do get that people are in a hurry - but you guys have a great underground network (the Path), so you don't even have to deal with street crossings outside. But at the same time - I see so many people still crossing on the street. I was really surprised to see so many people walking on the sidewalk in Toronto. Back home, people mostly use underground tunnels to get around - you don't see as many people using sidewalks outside.

So why don't more people use the Path to get around if they're in a hurry?

[–]impatient_and_unclev [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't know, some of us like being outside, its crowded in the PATH, its easier to get around at street level...

I get that you're new to the city and are blown away at how different Toronto is to the prairies, but maybe just take a step back and observe for a while. It will all make sense in time.

[–]manplanstan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So why don't more people use the Path to get around if they're in a hurry?

It's still nice outside. You will get used to it.

[–]krswThe Junction [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I, for one don't jaywalk while in the PATH. But I definitely do above ground.

[–]jamesjwalkingPlayter Estates 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

All the jaywalking, deal with it man. You should see NYC.

[–]jupiterslamentSt. Lawrence 6ポイント7ポイント  (12子コメント)

First off, there's no law against jaywalking in Toronto. You're allowed to cross mid-block so long as there's no designated crossing nearby, and you're not impeding traffic when you do so.

With respect to pedestrians entering the crosswalk when the hand is flashing... you are correct, it's technically illegal. Police recently were issuing tickets for it, but it's also something that'll never stop. There are so many pedestrians that it would be unreasonable to expect them to stop to allow one or two cars to turn when you can get several pedestrians across in that time.

You're going to need to get used to living in a large city, where the sheer volume of pedestrians means it's unrealistic to prioritize traffic in these circumstances. It's not just Toronto either - Go to Montreal, New York, London, Paris, etc. and you'll find pedestrians behaving the same, if not worse. In Paris I recall people just... basically ignoring traffic and walking regardless of if the light was even green or not. For a large city, our pedestrians are largely considerate by comparison.

[–]Houndlyfe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Hmm, my friend got a ticket for doing so a few years ago.

[–]SyrupBuccaneerTrinity-Bellwoods [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Every once in a while they'll do a blitz to remind the public not to walk in front of traffic. More of a PSA to be careful.

[–]zindagi786[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

y, and you're not impeding traffic when you do so. With respect to pedestrians entering the crosswalk when the hand is flashing... you are correct, it's technically illegal. Police recently were issuin

But there's still a safety issue - you can get run over if you jaywalk! Especially at night - I've seen people in Yorkville jaywalk when it's dark outside - and they're wearing dark clothes! I would never do that (out of fear of my own safety...).

[–]jupiterslamentSt. Lawrence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't doubt there's an element of danger. Society in large cities has just determined that the danger associated with it is outweighed by the time savings benefits you'd receive. It's similar to being a driver in that regard. Dangerous activity / travel time benefit.

Additionally, because this is more how it's done in the city and less so the suburbs, traffic in the downtown moves substantially slower, which means both a decreased chance of fatal impact and it's easier to judge the speed of vehicles when making a decision to cross the road.

[–]chmbrs 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are going to have to adjust your attitude. This is a pedestrian first city and there are a lot of them. Honk at every dipshit who blindly walks across a green but accept the fact that people are going to be running across the road mid block.

I moved here too. I have way too much hate for cyclists to even think about pedestrians.

[–]zindagi786[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Cyclists are another concern for me too. When there's no bike lanes, I sometimes notice bikes coming really close to my car. Do the bikes sometimes end up swiping against your car (by accident), leaving a mark on your car?

[–]chmbrs [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sometimes but not often. Watch for them when making turns, especially right turns. Even if you signal and take the lane leaving what appears to be no room for a cyclist to pass in the right, a cyclist will pass on the right.

[–]lehabs 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It is not unsafe if there are no cars.

[–]crankybadgerTrinity-Bellwoods 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's not unsafe if there are cars. I cross the street all the time through traffic if it's standing still or moving really slowly.

[–]ur_a_idietThe Bridle Path 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jaywalking is awesome.

Whining is not.

[–]Houndlyfe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Wait till you visit NY sometime. They invented it, and you start to do it too because if you don't you stick out.

[–]BobzyurunkleVictoria Village [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

First and easiest way to identify a tourist in NYC.......waiting for a red light.

[–]ohokaykay 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I jaywalk because 99% of the time motorists don't stop when I press the button at the crosswalk even if I make eye contact/point/wave my arms/dance anyways so why go out of my way to push a button. Also, the little walking light means it's my turn to walk so I'm not rushing across the street for you to make a turn. I don't start walking when the countdown has started and I walk at a decent pace but you bet your ass if some car is edging closer and closer to me or trying to go around me I will purposely walk slower. Wait your turn.

[–]zindagi786[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There seems to be a lot of disagreement in this thread about whether or not it is illegal to cross mid-block in Toronto. What is the actual law? And is it provincial or municipal jurisdiction?

One funny law I also noticed here regarding traffic is how you can do U-Turns in the middle of the street! Those orange taxi cars (they're yellow/white out west...) tend to be really aggressive when it comes to those UTurns...they seem to do them pretty abruptly! Kind of scared me at first, but I'm slowly getting used to it.

[–]jupiterslamentSt. Lawrence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

The Highway Traffic Act has laws prohibiting crossing at a signal on a solid/flashing hand, and crossing at intersections outside of designated crossing areas. So when you see one of those "Pedestrians cross at other side" signs, ignoring that would also be prohibited under the HTA. It is provincial jurisdiction.

There is nothing in the Highway Traffic Act about crossing roads where there AREN'T crossing markings, and if something in the act isn't expressly illegal, it's treated to be legal. To affirm this, the former cities that made up Toronto prior to 1998 all had bi-laws (municipal) on the books along the lines of "If a pedestrian is crossing away from a marked crossing, they must yield the right of way to traffic" along with something making it clear that drivers maintain a responsibility to avoid the pedestrian if they don't yield.

[–]passiveparrotCityPlace [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

ahh shut up

[–]ylsf -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

You are correct, you aren't supposed to start crossing when the countdown timer starts. I almost forgive people for crossing like this if there are no cars waiting to turn or if they aren't interfering with traffic but people that run across with seconds left drives me crazy.

I had a green light on the weekend and pedestrians were still CROSSING the intersection seconds after my light went green. No attention for what was happening and when I honked my horn a couple who was walking across didn't even turn to look at my car heading towards them or try to speed up at all. I feel like there needs to be some enforcement of blatant disrespect for the rules of the road (and, yes, would like enforcement of cars and bikes as well).

[–]crash866 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

There are a couple of streets on St Clair where the timer starts 2-3 seconds after the light runs green barely enough time to cross one lane of the 5 car and 2 streetcar lanes.

[–]ylsf [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

In those situations, whoever is at the light is supposed to start crossing when it turns but if people come to the intersection 5 seconds later they are supposed to wait for the next cycle.

If you have started crossing before the countdown it is perfectly legal to cross and even if the light turns green I don't have an issue and will wait for you to finish crossing. The only thing that annoys me on that front is the people texting and looking at their phones instead of focusing to cross the street.

[–]a_frayn -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

I was waiting to turn left at Parliament and Gerrard today, and some lady started crossing the street when the counter was at 10. She didn't clear the intersection until the lights were yellow.

However, a lady with a walker followed her and entered the intersection when the lights turned yellow. She didn't exit the intersection until long after the opposing lights turned green.

[–]rhineautoRoncesvalles 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Was the walker lady really, really hunched over by chance?

[–]a_frayn 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

She was actually making a surprisingly decent speed. But still, who enters when it turns yellow?

[–]jupiterslamentSt. Lawrence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

People who dash into the intersection not looking, people who check for traffic quickly before running, and the people who just don't give a fuck (walk across). It sounds like she fell into the last category.

[–]DroopyTrashThe Financial District 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Are you expecting anything less when driving though crazy town?

[–]crankybadgerTrinity-Bellwoods 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

She's an old lady. Cut her some slack.