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Red Pill TheoryMGTOW Is Not A Healthy Long-term Solution (self.TheRedPill)

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I was disappointed to see an MGTOW post get so heavily upvoted on TRP today. The post referred to something along the lines of abstaining from sex in search of life fulfillment through other means.

This isn't what The Red Pill that I once knew is truly about.

What disappoints me is that the idea of "going your own way" isn't exactly going your own way, regardless of how you try to rationalize it. It's a form of submission. Someone who has decided to "go their own way" has likely experienced some severe difficulties with women to get to that point. We've all been there at different stages in life.

But here's the thing: By choosing to "go your own way," you aren't actually going your own way. You're letting your difficulties and hardships with women overcome your true desires.

You're essentially saying "Women are stupid and I'm done with them. I don't need them to live a happy and successful life. I can just masturbate and work hard forever and I'll be fine."

Bullshit.

What if I told you that TRULY going your own way is going after everything that you want out of life? That's the TRP that I once knew. Building your mind, body and skills to where you can go after everything that you want. You can become wildly successful. You can maintain your health and well-being. And you can get some goddamn pussy on the side, too.

Taking the redpill IS going your own way in life, because it's about achieving everything that you want. This lifestyle is for the rare men who want it all. And which heterosexual men don't want to have sex with beautiful women?

If you classify yourself as a "MGTOW" then you've probably already given up - either temporarily or for the long-term. But, my advice is to come back to the dark side. Nothing in life can replace achieving all of your goals and having sex with attractive women.

P.S. I realize that going your own way can be effective in the short-term. Maybe if you're starting a business or just busy with life. But I don't like excuses. I mean there are always opportunities to conquer life, stay fit, and have safe sex.

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[–]otiswild 35ポイント36ポイント  (3子コメント)

Modern westernized women are poison.

They're a drain, a massive pain in the ass.

So much work, so much risk, so little reward.

Y'all can keep 'em. I'd rather have my money, my time, my toys, and my sanity.

[–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Fair enough man. I agree that many can be poison and a drain. There are some that are worth the effort for at least casual sex. This is coming from a guy who also lives in the modern westernized world (leaving soon however).

[–]variableLt 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Casual sex is the problem. While it is still my only choice, I dread the possibility of getting an STD just because your plate is a whore in Real Life.

That's why I personally try to limit my reach to taken women only. There is some safety in that. However, it is just a matter of time when this shit could escalate into full blown pandemonium that will feature crazy hurt weakling with a shotgun.

So choices are:

a) Have a plate, risk a STD or unwanted kids. b) Get into LTR or marriage, risk divorce and evaporation of your free time. STD can come too. c) Get a prostitute. STD almost guaranteed. d) Ignore all that shit.

So what would you propose?

For me, personally, prostitutes are the best solution (doesn't have to be prostitutes per se, can be sugar daddy arrangement, but anything where transaction from money to sex is clear and agreed upon by both parties), but that STDs are not a joke. I don't want to be on AZT just because a whore is a whore.

[–]Darft -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

This explains recent outbreaks of gay people.

[–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]hideall1 5ポイント6ポイント  (6子コメント)

    I'll throw this into the mix for what it's worth. I consider myself a MGTOW because I am a Buddhist. The first 26 years of my life was spent growing up, going to school, getting a job during my last two years of high school, going to college, graduating with a Bachelors in Electrical and Computer Engineering, going for a Masters in the same, dropping out and sorting out my life and my new diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia. I worked a full-time job for about a year, then had an episode and went on disability. I have had a total of four girlfriends each for a duration of one to two years. I've had two sexual flings.

    Honestly, I can say that I just don't enjoy sex. It's not something that I strive for. I've done it, and it was meh. Instead, I'm devoting myself to Buddhism and try to live like a monk. Now, this is living at home with my mother since I don't have enough to support myself. Honestly, I'd be homeless and live out of my car, but my mother wouldn't allow something like that. Plus, I enjoy living at home with her.

    I'm not sure where that puts me. My aspirations are striving for enlightenment. I meditate a lot throughout the day. I feel like this is the highest thing that one can do, become a Buddha. So again, I'm not sure where that puts me on your list, but that is what I'm going to do.

    [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I try to do Stoicism which is like western Buddhism. A lot of people attack MGTOW or people who don't want sex as part of conformity and ego as well as jealousy. When you really look at sex, its like a useless hunger.

    Life should be enjoyed, not spent working to death for women. If you like working, great for you, its all about motivations.

    Do what you want.

    [–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

    Respect. Don't worry about my list - create your own. I guess not every guy wants sex and that's cool. I've always been surrounded by athlete horndogs growing up. Maybe sometimes there really are guys who exist solely for a purpose which doesn't involve sex. And that could be you. Keep doing your thing.

    I just wrote my original post under the guise that 99% of men really do biologically crave sex. Maybe my statistic is a little off.

    [–]hideall1 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

    Thanks man. It's part that I'm not interested in it, it's part side effect of my condition, and it's part side effect of my medication. I do agree with you that people shouldn't just give up though.

    [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    No problem. And I'd urge you to just keep doing exactly what you want in life. And maybe give sex another try if you feel like it. MAYBE just maybe you'll enjoy it. Who knows.

    [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    If its medication related then its bad. Unless you already made the choice beforehand.

    [–][deleted] 35ポイント36ポイント  (9子コメント)

    I respectfully disagree with you.

    The day that you just don't care about women is the day you are truly free.

    MGTOW is not about giving up, it is about embracing a happy life without females and their accompanying shit.

    [–]AmazonExplorer 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sounds like you've read the Enchiridion.

    [–]newguy75 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Two and a half c-notes or less will get the best thing a hot 10 can offer her boyfriend. Easy as that.

    [–]Rougepellet 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I always thought of MGTOW as just not putting that much time into women. Sure you'll still have sex, but you probably won't be in LTRs or get married. At the most you'll have plates but it'll be purely sexual. That way you spend less time on woman and can focus on more important things. Unless you really want to start a family. Correct me if i'm wrong

    [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I agree with that definition of MGTOW. That's the good definition. But it seems to me that MGTOW have all sorts different lifestyles - many of whom abstain from sex altogether.

    [–]PoopSmearMoustache 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Sex can be a very flexible priority if you make it, for me it takes a bit of time to flick between modes of operation. You don't have to follow the "balanced" lifestyle like you seem to be promoting. I've always believed in putting all your effort into a primary goal for some time gets the best results. It begins to look like MGTOW when you approach life this way, I just don't think life is or has to be approaching some permanent ideal of balance.

    [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    What the fuck are you talking about.......

    No one on red pill will tell you that women are needed for happiness, if anything women are something that CAN enhance happiness if done right. MGTOW choosing not to deal with women at all not only is good for other men (supply demand) but good to destroy feminism.

    Why put up with women's bullshit? LTR and marriage aren't worth it to many TRP men anyway, so why is it so bad to pay for sex, spin plates, or avoid women altogether?

    MGTOW is not giving up, its saying "fuck you" to the society that hates men and the women who view us as ATMs and toy soldiers.

    I know I have MGTOW in my name but I am not 100% sure about it, or about any of my ideas. I think I want to spin plates when is suits me, and do w/e the fuck I want when it suits me. I don't let anyone tell me what to do, I don't give a fuck about society, women, men, or any institution has to say. Fuck them all. I only care about what I want.

    This is the ultimate strength. And to be this type of MGTOW, essentially a sigma, is good. I will admit I am not a sigma yet, but I am well on my way. My life is my own and I do what I want to.

    Think of it this way. If you could have random hot women to fuck at any time and when you are done they disappear, would you pick that life or what you have now?

    Is sex the most important thing ever? Is that the most noble goal? I will quote what I always quote.

    I teach you the Overman! Mankind is something to be overcome. What have you done to overcome mankind?

    All beings so far have created something beyond themselves. Do you want to be the ebb of that great tide, and revert back to the beast rather than overcome mankind? What is the ape to a man? A laughing-stock, a thing of shame. And just so shall a man be to the Overman: a laughing-stock, a thing of shame. You have evolved from worm to man, but much within you is still worm. Once you were apes, yet even now man is more of an ape than any of the apes.

    Thus spoke Zarathustra

    http://praxeology.net/zara.htm

    Your life isn't to be a woman's fucking ATM. There are more important things in life than sex, and many great men have been virgins, like Nikola Tesla, Lawrence of Arabia or avoided/did little with women like Kierkegaard and Nietzsche. Women are not important. Women don't fucking matter. At all. Fuck them. They are worse than men in every way except for fucking, and they often aren't even good at fucking. Why would you choose to spend time with a woman? MGTOW are like every other man except they say "sex/plate/game/ONS are too risky and the juice isn't worth the squeeze", and they are right.

    Seriously dealing with women is so fucking horrible. They are just shit people. Like imagine if we were all gay and attracted to dudes, but we acted like men still, that would seriously be a paradise. I know this sounds gay as fuck but if you are honest you will see how awful women are. Thats why pussy is so good, because for pussy to be so good, women have to be shit, thats why you brain suspends rationality around hot women, and "love", because women are so shit if you were objective you wouldn't fuck them. MGTOW are the ones who figured that out.

    [–][削除されました]  (7子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]Tripleberst 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Consider MGTOW as collateral damage of the sexual revolution. People who do understand the game but have ultimately decided not to play. In that sense, they're neither submissive nor dominant because to be one of those, you'd have to be a game player. That's the whole point of MGTOW, to avoid the headache of playing the game and focus on something higher than sexual attraction.

      TRP is about understanding the theory of attraction and relationship dynamics and making use of that knowledge as a tool. That's a totally separate paradigm from opting out.

      This is the same bullshit that religious people spin about atheists needing faith to be an atheist and that in itself makes atheism a religion. Don't be confused, these people have a clear view of the playing field and have decided to keep their feet far from the grass.

      [–]lemonparty 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

      You may not be pedestalling a specific pussy, but you sure are pedestalling pussy.

      MGTOW is just saying that relationships and pussy aren't the end-all-be-all of human existence. I think you miss the point of it entirely. It's about focusing on yourself first, and being the best you can be --- and letting the pussy-chips fall where they may. If you build it, they will come.

      [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Its not pedestalizing. It is giving women want they want. If you pedestalize women that means you think they are great and deserve certain things. If you are TRP you think women are shit whores who are evil but you give them alpha things to fuck them and have them not fuck you over. If you are MGTOW you give them nothing and call them out for being shit evil whores, and don't deal with them.

      And when I say shit evil whores I am not mad or bitter, I literally mean women are shit aka worse than a guy in every way except sex, they are actually evil with little morals and solipsism, and they are whores which means not worth investing because they whore around and expect beta buxx to marry a used up 30yr old whore.

      [–]stvain 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You just made a series of broad sweeping and negative generalizations. That kind of rhetoric is exactly why people think TRP is full of angry virgins. Stick with logic and avoid the ad hominems, and you'll avoid criticisms like the ones OP is leveraging.

      [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      This isn't what The Red Pill that I once knew is truly about.

      If you actually think TRP is about just one thing, you've been doing it wrong, friend. We all most swallow the same pill, but not all of us require the same reaction. You don't have a problem with the fact that some RedPillers choose casual sex while others choose LTRs or marriage, so why isn't MGTOW an option too? MGTOW and casual sex (or even PUA) aren't mutually exclusive, by the way. For me, the overlap.

      You're essentially saying "Women are stupid and I'm done with them. I don't need them to live a happy and successful life. I can just masturbate and work hard forever and I'll be fine."

      MGTOW doesn't necessarily involve celibacy. I'm pretty sure what most MGTOWs avoid are LTRs, marriage and casual friendships with women. Which is a very sane and logical thing to do these days.

      If you classify yourself as a "MGTOW" then you've probably already given up

      Given up on what? The toxic egomaniacs who are commonly referred to as human females? Oh yes, I'm sure I'm missing out big time, since we all know how absolutely awesome dead bedrooms, bossy wives, divorce rape, false accusations, alimony, child support and cuckoldry is.

      Apart from sex, women add literally zero value to my life. Name one, just one good reason, why my interactions with them should go any further than coitus.

      But, my advice is to come back to the dark side.

      You know, perhaps there are guys around here who are on a side too dark for you to see it.

      Nothing in life can replace achieving all of your goals and having sex with attractive women.

      Jesus, I thought this was the one place on earth where we don't put pussy on a pedastal. If you can't be happy without women, you are emotionally dependent on them. Emotional dependency -or any form of dependency on women- is the essential essence of a blue-pill lifestyle. I thought this was well known around here.

      Sex is great, but in my honest opinion, you aren't living a RedPill lifestyle until you find as much more pleasure in strengthening your body, your mind and your collection of valuable things than in banging yet another air-headed bimbo.

      Please correct me if I'm wrong, but your entire post makes it sound like pussy should be high up on my priority list. It's not. I'm having more sex than any of my blue/purple friends (thanks to Self Improvement), but I refuse to declare casual sex anything more than a secondary matter in my life.

      The man who introduced me to TRP once said "Zoltan, sex with beautiful women is great. And so is watching a good movie. Or eating a well-made steak. Or watching a football game. You should try some of these things in your free time."

      [–]Red_Shirt_Blue_Pants 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Meh. Same can be said for a lot of Terpers who claim to not put pussy on a pedestal yet everything they do in life revolves around getting women.

      There are MGTOWS that focus on becoming successful and prioritize that over pussy. Then there are MGTOWs who give up. Just how there are Terpers who aim for self imrovment and some that just want pussy.

      You cant hate other subs for generalizing about us then do the same to MGTOWs. Just makes you look as bad as feminists.

      [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I upvoted you, but they don't "pedestalize" HOWEVER they give women what they want, so basically any game/pua/seduction is just giving females what they want. If you realize this and are honest it is ok to give females what they want, if you genuinely get what you want.

      Also a lot of men pursue sex b/c of ego problems. Your self esteem should never be based around women.

      [–][deleted] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Well a representative from MGTOW sure did make them look like shit, by coming into TRP and claiming that redpillers live for chasing pussy and acting like douchebags. Did you see the post I'm referring to? It's the first comment.

      http://redditlog.com/snapshots/944093

      I don't go into bluepill/MGTOW subs and call them out.

      [–]sir_wankalot_here 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

      MGTOW has been the solution for 80% of men for most of human history. You are the one who is out of touch with reality.

      [–][deleted] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I realize that it's been the solution for 80% of men, I'm just saying it's not something to aspire to if you've already found the manosphere. Because most men can have it all if they truly want it, which is what TRP is for.

      Aren't you in Asia where you can pull bitches even more easily than most of us? Don't tell me you're wanking it over there man. I thought your username was a joke.

      [–]sir_wankalot_here 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Most westerners think all Asian women are hot because they haven't porked up like western women. So initially westerners are like kids in a candy shop. After you have been here a while, you see that 9 is actually closer to a 4.

      I am trying to figure out how I can become polygamous, as in having many wives living in the same house. But I need to build a bigger house :-).

      [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]AmazonExplorer 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Why would you refuse your son the gift of life just because of what feminists would see him as?

        I feel that having a son would be the best in life. A wife not so much. But a son would be amazing. You could teach him all the necessary tools to live in this world.

        If more RPers did this, and if this built overtime, society would change.

        Right now, people see the future is about "gender equality", "feminism", and the end of "patriarchy".

        But let me remind you that:

        • In the 19th century, people though that steam power was the future.
        • In the early 20th century, people thought eugenics was the future.
        • In the 80's, people thought we'd be colonizing the moon and Mars.

        Society changes.

        [–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Of course that made me angry at one point. But I got over it. I realized that it was a natural female trait of hypergamy. It's just reality.

        [–]PathToMan 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

        i still have sex with women

        and am mgtow

        and i put zero effort into women

        and i have sex with them

        zero effort

        sex

        Seriously though, the point of MGTOW is to be outcome independent, not chaste or abstinent. Not only do you thoroughly NOT understand the concept, you are even wrong about your opinions on your false interpretation of MGTOW.

        I'm thankful this thread is getting downvoted because it belongs in the garbage.

        [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]nolvorite 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

          Shitpost/10

          If you've finished bitchshitting and come up with something useful to say about anything, let me know.

          [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

          [deleted]

            [–]nolvorite 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Someone's not recognizing mockery.

            [–]OneThrowawayToGoPlz 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You're implying mgtow is some monolithic, codified ideology rather than a label people can self-identify with with loose notions on what the problems in society are and how one can react to them.

            As such, there probably are as much nuances and reasons and ways of 'going mgtow', as there are mgtow. And anyone claiming they're the mgtow pope (or someone arguing the opposite camp), putting forward their idea of what mgtow is as though it's scripture is likely strawmanning for them to feel superior about.

            So sure, some eschew women entirely, but others DO involve themselves with women, though merely for a quickie on the side, never engaging in anything long term (and marrying least of all...), while still others do get into ltr (still not marrying, but at least demanding their women contribe something meaningful beside pussy)...

            As for their reasons? Incel and apathetic about it, or maybe just fed up with the bs that comes with relationships with women... For some it's a socio-political move where they recognize the utter shit mentality of women these days and the laws and culture that perpetuates it, and they go on strike, if you will, demanding men grow a higher standard in women for themselves, and demanding women will finally wake up from 'where have all the good men gone' and start bettering themselves by stopping being a slave to their biology, stopping taking stuff for granted, and starting to actually contribute and work at things equally like men do...

            Take your pick, I guess...

            And go watch more barbarossa videos. He articulates things better than I could.

            [–]1TheReason13 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Your logic is not only lacking, its feminine. The clumsy claims you make about MGTOW does nothing but prove you know nothing of it.

            If half of Walmarts customer base stop purchasing from Walmart, Walmart will be faced with complete financial ruin within months and be forced to change their policies to benefit disgruntled customers.

            If black people are quarantined to the back of the bus for the benefit of white people, all black people withdraw from using the bus system and work together to provide the black community independence from public transport. They will bankrupt the bus transportation system and force them to bend to the will of the black community.

            Is this submission?

            Submission? Your post is an reckless strawman. MGTOW is passive resistance. The current system that govern us thrives on the exploitation of male disposability, it thrives on destroying the lives of men for the benefit of women and the state. You are no stranger to this fact. It does not matter how good you are at gaming women or how informed you are about the states exploitation of the man. If you play the game by your terms you only lessen the risks, you don't eliminate it.

            If a man decides that the risk is not worth the reward then you don't have the right to call him a submissive pussy because of it. If a man decides to assume the risks involved with playing the system, like we at TRP do, it is his decision and nobody has the right to call him reckless for it.

            You fool. Educate yourself on these matters before you attempt deconstruction. We discuss things based on logic not emotion. You must learn to entertain something you don't agree with, otherwise you're logic will be fallacious as in this post.

            [–]wrez 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

            I am not MGTOW but you are reading MGTOW wrong.

            MGTOW is not eschewing flings, but only avoiding LTRs. MGTOW is not voluntary celibacy.

            In TRP terms, think of it as permanently spinning plates, and ditching them anytime they press for LTR.

            [–]1 Endorsed Contributormordanus 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            There are a lot of different layers to the mgtow group. Some go like monks and turn sex off completely, while some have as much sex as they can and call it going their own way because they are having sex on their own terms. So you can't really blanket statement a mgtow.

            [–]yea_tht_dnt_go_there 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            think of it as permanently spinning plates, and ditching them anytime they press for LTR.

            Oh yeah, thats me. At the same time i'm still spinning plates... At any one time I can go for the LTR.

            I've been with women before, I want to in the future also. For now though, i'll enjoy my time single.

            Its hard defending myself really, there is nothing to defend. haha I have a job but few bills. I spend the majority of my cash on myself going out and having a wild time in public. Or I stay home and reddit and watch my cat be cat-like. Either way is cool with me. I'm only alone WHEN I CHOOSE TO BE. Some times I do choose to isolate myself just to recharge my batteries. At the same time I can call up some buddies/ladies right now to hoot and holler with, I just have work tommorow.

            [–]triceratraps -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            The guy earlier claimed any sexual urges were vile and he preferred to masturbate than ever have sex with a woman.

            [–]altra_hex 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I recall the post you're referring to, and to be fair that's not quite right.

            It wasn't a flat preference for masturbation over sex with a woman. In a vacuum that would just be stupid, and reeks of strawman fallacy.

            He claimed that masturbation was just as good as sexual intercourse when all the pros and cons are measured out. ie. time/resources put in vs reward + unintended consequences. That's obviously a subjective assessment and would vary across individuals.

            I can't say I agree completely, but I can at least understand the point. I'd say that the idea of not jumping through major hoops in order to get sex is something just about everyone at TRP would tend to agree on. In fact, it kind of runs counter to the idea of not putting women on pedestals.

            [–]biggestboss 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            you write like a woman composing shitty internet articles. live your own life and make your own choices.

            [–]MSoftHarem 8ポイント9ポイント  (7子コメント)

            I've always maintained that MGTOW are TRP's extremist lesbian separatists. You can't rationalize away your desire for sex as it is quite literally coded into your DNA. Furthermore, any actual MGTOW have already been successful with women and are out on oil rigs, or climbing mountains - not rationalizing their fake lifestyle and failures with women on the internet.

            [–]circlhat 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

            A lot of things are coded into our DNA, but humans aren't animals in the sense we can control our urges.

            Humans are naturally lazy, for example it is not in our DNA to work out, we must push ourselves mentally.

            It is not in our nature to study hard, we must push ourselves mentally.

            If you can become happy with MGTOW it means you have succeed in controlling your animal.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorUsherai 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

            Pretty much. Though shortly the chorus of MGTOW will arrive to proclaim how you can totally date, fuck girls, get married, etc and still be a "MGTOW". They're another group that has diluted a definition to the point where it means absolutely nothing.

            [–]triceratraps 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I feel the reason it was so highly voted is because it gives incels a way to feel superior. "Nah im not staying home because im afraid to go out with friends, im staying home because im going on my own way." I think MGTOW is composed of very few men who actually want to never have female contact and a lot of dishonest and lazy ones. Also "if you go out and get laid you are a slave to pussy." Wtf with that logic any biological need makes you a slave. Do you need to eat and sleep? Not necessarily, but you do if you want to be alive and healthy. Same goes for sexual urges.

            [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This is unfortunately true. TRP is about being honest. I came from MGTOW communities first, namely barbarossa and stardust, but I have grown so much. Basically I wanted a solution by being MGTOW, but I don't think there is one, and the whole game/alpha stuff seems a lot more legit than it sounds at first (and seeing it work first hand IRL for myself makes it TANGIBLE REALITY).

            The only thing I really don't like is how there isn't a solution to fix women, being alpha really isn't fixing women, its making the best of a shit situation but it isn't a win-win scenario, and it fucks over men.

            I have lost hope in the betas though, I really wanted to help them to fight women's bullshit, but seeing how hopelessly deluded they are I feel there is no hope at all to convert them. Men will continue to be disposable and treated like shit, and telling betas this only gets you attacked. I have dealt with this IRL a lot, its really depressing, I lost a good friend over it. It seems like anytime you share the truth about things you get attacked, so you can't even discuss these ideas AT ALL, you can only benefit from them. I think it is designed to be like this by biology, only so many men can unplug or the system collapses.

            Bioengineering might fix women, but short of that, its a dominance hierarchy, and the lowest rungs bite the hands that feed so you can't even help them.

            TL:DR I was more hardcore MGTOW because of naivety and the thought that I could save men from their fates, now I am a lot less hopeful and see that game isn't exploiting betas and hurting men, its the betas who will not let themselves be freed. Basically Plato's Cave.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2afuTvUzBQ

            Except I don't think we should go and risk our lives for TRP truths.

            [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

            There are MGTOW who get married? Ok thats a new one.... def not MGTOW. I'd say LTR/marriage makes you NOT a MGTOW anymore.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorUsherai 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I would agree but they hamster that so long as your sole focus is yourself or your mission or whatever that it still counts.

            [–]yea_tht_dnt_go_there 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

            I'm a "MGTOW" dude if thats what you want to call it.

            I have freedom. A lot of girls think "omg he just wants to fuck whoever whenever" No silly. It always comes down to sex with them. I have the freedom to leave the toilet seat however I see fit. When I go out to eat I never play the "I don't want to go there, I don't know what I want" game.

            Women haven't turned their backs on me; I've turned my backs on them, romantically speaking. I realized i'm the prize. I have so much to offer. Why chase them? As narcissistic as that sounds, I simply don't need some one to inflate my ego. I feel good by myself.

            One day i'd like a family, but no need to rush into that. I see 22 year old friends of mine get married and I think "what suckas"

            [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            You're red pill, not going your own way. MGTOW seems to be more associated with calling off women altogether.

            [–]yea_tht_dnt_go_there 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Ok, that clarifies it. I haven't sworn off women, it's more of a why date 6s in my spare time. I have plenty of more interesting things to do.

            If I do whatever the fuck I want AND improve myself while doing it a 9 will see that fire and maybe i'll let her in.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorFLFTW16 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The thing is: I agree with OP, but I also agree with MGTOW. I think we need both. Personally I like a LTR with a woman but I totally understand guys that want to just be by themselves. All options must remain available to men so that we, as a group, are not taken for granted.

            [–]smokingmonkey420 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I was thinking something along the lines of this recently. But, what if instead of dread game, you use MGTOW. Let me explain.

            It's often stated that dread game is the most effective tool in your LTR game. Entertaining the idea of someone else spiking your interest more-so than your current lover.

            What if you flipped this, and essentially made the point that you did not care if she were to walk.

            [–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            What if you flipped this, and essentially made the point that you did not care if she were to walk.

            This is definitely part of the mindset to have.

            But I don't think anything is as powerful as dread tbh.

            [–]ROTHSCHILD_GOON_1913 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            lol i don't think that any "real" MGTOW is going to care about anything that any of us say on the internet about them. that's kind of the whole point.

            some people just don't have as much of a sex drive as others. if they're able to get by without having the constant need to mate, why is that a bad thing for them or for anyone else? yeah, there are probably some guys out there that use "MGTOW" as an excuse for not putting effort into getting laid. but really, who cares? why is this important or something that needs to be complained about? those guys can take care of their own lives - they don't need you to tell them what to do.

            you should go back and replace every instance of "women", "pussy", and "sex" in your post with "heroin", and see how stupid it sounds.

            [–]1whatsazipper 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Unfortunately, this type of nonsense and similar like it have become quite common lately. It's easy to see that they're completely dishonest. If they didn't care about women they wouldn't be bitching about them on the internet. They seem like the most sexually frustrated males.

            [–]triceratraps 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

            There once was a fox that passed under an elevated vineyard and saw a patch of the juiciest most delicious grapes on earth. The fox jumps with all his might and fails to get the grapes. He then leaves saying " what do I want a bunch of sour grapes anyways". MGTOW are perfect examples of cognitive dissonance. They want to have sex and relationships with women, but for a variety of reasons they cannot. This creates a huge amount of mental stress. Now they have two options, they can channel the stress and become better or they can give up and dismiss sex and woman as something they never wanted in the first place. The second option is lazy and dishonest.

            [–]anonlymouse 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            That might be one part of MGTOW, but there are also those who do it because all they've had so far is sour grapes.

            [–]gstvtrp 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I'm 23, and the women around my age groups are more interested in physical attractiveness more than anything. I'm not that good looking (somewhere around a 5) and all the effort I've put in reading game, going out, cold approaching, dressing better, fixing my terrible acne, working out, making money is not getting me the results I would like. It's been like this for years now. I've been reading TRP since close to it's inception. I know there are others out there like this, even here on RP. It doesn't mean they're doing something wrong, it's just the way society is built. I can't even be angry about it, but it makes me mad when people say otherwise.

            At a certain point you have to realize that you can't win in everything in life. Of course I would love to spin plates or have a nice girlfriend. Of course it's stressful to live like this. But it's also frustrating as fuck to try to keep putting effort in when all you get is inevitable failure. I admit I'm a shallow fucker, I don't want to date/fuck girls who are 4s, and lower. I'd take a high 6 or 7 happily though, but it's not happening with the current world of AA/BB. I'll never be like the guys on here who slay 8s on a weekly basis unless I became a celebrity or the like. The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze.

            I started out as an academic nerd and I was very good at what I did. I'm still one of the top students in my class, but all the effort I put in trying to get better with women would have been better spent into studying. At least there I would have realized the fruits of my labor.

            Maybe when I'm older things will be better, but by then I'll have the choice of picking through all the worn out women. I don't want that and would rather stay alone than be someone's beta provider.

            I know I sound bitter, but it's because I can't get out of this trap of simultaneously knowing redpill but still being stuck with the same situation as before.

            [–][deleted] 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You don't sound bitter, you sound like you're telling the truth of many college aged American men.

            I would argue that regardless of what you think, self-improvement will take you much further in life than the opportunity cost of a little bit of missed studying.

            You CAN win everything in life. Don't hold limiting beliefs regardless of what people tell you.

            I'll never be like the guys on here who slay 8s on a weekly basis unless I became a celebrity or the like. The juice simply isn't worth the squeeze.

            That's a limiting belief. Kill it now. Your mindset is everything. Start out by aiming to slay a 6. Screen as many 6's as you can one night until you read one as DTF.

            [–]JimmyTheIntern 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

            There once was a fox that passed under a vine full of delicious-looking grapes. It was out of reach, so the fox busted his ass trying until he finally managed to grab some. Not until after gorging himself on a handful did the fox notice that the grapes were half-rotten and disgustingly sour, so he wound up dying from food poisoning.

            A tortoise, who had quietly watched the whole scene transpire, decided to keep walking on his path rather than wasting time picking bad grapes.

            [–]Endorsed ContributorRed_August 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            ...and the bear stepped on the invisible, unseen tortoise as he climbed his limiting-beliefs-fence to reach and gorge himself on the sweet and ripe pinot-noir...

            [–]triceratraps 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Hey if you are happy watching life happen go ahead. Id rather be the fox and died having know what could be.

            [–][deleted] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

            You should seriously make a TRP children's book with this animated scene as the intro

            [–]SgtBrutalisk 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Can MGTOW even exist as a part of a group? It defies the very definition of MGTOW. Imagine the "Anarchist Collective" - the very core of anarchy is that there is no one giving orders. How about "Sovereign Movement" etc. I don't think actual MGTOW publicly talk about their status, they just keep on trucking.

            [–]NikolaTeslaMGTOW 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Anarchocapitalism works, capitalism orders things, so you can have no govt, aka anarchy, and still have a liveable modern society. Its the future.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7d7h2i-wEQ

            [–][deleted] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

            I find it interesting that not associating with women is termed by you as "giving up". This is only a conclusion come to if you base your life around women, and therefore by not associating with them, you say we are "giving up". What's the point of having sex with women? You never actually objectively explain the benefits, apart from saying that it's simply "good" to do so whilst achieving your goals in life. I do think that you must have goals in life, however, if you deem women to be essential to this process, you are in essence a mangina.

            Your self-worth is centered around women, I'd even reasonably assume that you seek out sex with women as a way to affirm your masculinity. Of course, this is what "The Red Pill" centers around. It's great for getting laid, but is an end to itself in this way, as it becomes useless once you're glutted and look for something more fulfilling. "Game", or validating your masculinity from women is not something that will continue to fill the emptiness within yourself. This emptiness is part of the male condition, and the only thing that can fill it is the pursuit of a greater existence; what you define as a greater existence is up to you. However, equating MGTOWs with giving-up is a false perspective coming from mangina MRAs/feminists, and is something I did not expect to find here of all places.

            Of course, in my life, I associate with women all the time. MGTOW doesn't mean swearing off women, it simply means recognizing women (synonymous with TRP) as they really are, and not giving in to the blue-pill perspective. In this way, I'd go as far as to say that MGTOW is almost indistinguishable from TRP, apart from TRP's utter fixation on "Game" and "becoming a man" through "Game", which is of course giving power to women as dent of them defining your identity (I may be wrong about this, but if any of you are more familiar with the philosophy, I hope you'd care to explain it to me).

            [–]1whatsazipper 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            The thread in question.

            This infestation needs to be exterminated.

            [–]Counter423 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            OP puts the pussy on the pedestal.

            Mods delete this thread.

            Beta bitch op.

            [–]adrixshadow 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Not everybody can be alphas.

            Reproduction is just a urge given to us by out reptile brains. There is already a lot of people in the world.

            Lots of important people in our history simply didn't have the time for useless relationships, there minds were more important. If you have something to dedicate yourself too that can be more powerful of a legacy then mere genes.

            That said most MGTOW aren't at that level but they can be satisfied in their own way. Not getting in relationships is a massive release of burden.

            We are all in pursuit of happiness wherever it may be so don't judge one as lesser.

            Plus MGTOW and porn will totally destroy feminism and the current social structure. IT IS the backlash that will fix the problems.

            [–]Nutpeddler 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            This touches a point I wrestle with quite often since the pill. Did the lack of sex make me not want it that much, or am I just not a very sexual person? I can go with not much sex for quite some time, and from what I've heard, most guys release themselves much more than I do.

            I'm not making pussy a priority for me. Self-improvement, on the other hand, has my full attention. That's what I'm taking away, leaving the other problem for a time when I would have less problems with getting some action.

            [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            There are social patterns coming from men in response to MGTOW that I've picked up on. PUA's and Romantic Traditionalists will most often shame it; they also immediately put their idealism of a great man's life into this model. Men who identify with it, whether interested in PUA or not, will defend it. I try to be intellectually honest with myself, and that includes being honest with myself about my emotional state. This year has been a roller-coaster for me. So I wouldn't personally attempt to prescribe the perfect life for anyone else and I don't care much when strangers do it for me. I'm also not anti-dating by any means, I find a lot of women unintelligent to a point where I don't want to be their friend, and I can't put up with mainstream bullshit and hollow materialism with no deeper thought, I'd rather practice beta game until I die than pursue someone with any chance that they might only have that in their head.

            [–]Entrefut 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Why are you even concerning yourself with mgtow? They obviously don't believe the same things you do, accept it and move on. They aren't players in our game, so why do they bother you?

            [–][削除されました]  (5子コメント)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

              This is in reference to a post that got 50+ upvotes today in this sub. The guy basically explained that masturbating is a good substitute for sex. And he was rallied on.

              I just think that we have a lot of new subscribers who are really confused. I'm trying to clear some things up.

              [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                Wet dreams come closest. Jacking off feels like shit because you're fuckin yourself. Wet dreams are awesome though because you're getting fucked by your dream.

                [–]ASAP_Bubble_Tea 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

                I see MGTOW as something temporary, a period of time you utilize to dedicate fully to life goals and make something of your time. Once you allow women to come back in your life, your value will have raised and hopefully you are an improved man.

                [–]MaxPower6 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                I thought that was monk mode

                [–][deleted] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                All men should be mgtow until 25 or whenever they start making bank

                [–]Endorsed ContributorRed_August 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Amen. Accepting, getting over yourself, learning and growing will lead you to a healthier, more sustainable, and ultimately more realistic outlook on women/society. Sure they can be (helluva) difficult but MGTOW is reactionary. That's key to understanding that it reeks of trying to manage a state of perpetual frustration. You can read the yet still unabated anger in MGTOW commentary across TRP. We all started rooted in frustration but MGTOW never comes to term with it because it avoids it.

                Coming to terms with it instead of avoiding it allows you to engage in all facets of life. The effort for women does not have to drain your life-force.

                Taking an early wrong turn because of your feelz (yes, that's right) and then trying to go Buddhist to quell your inner voices may not be the best approach. Its not the most sustainable one for that matter because it simply requires too much energy expenditure despite its false aura of serenity.

                Yes, of course making sex an obsessional focus in life is unsustainable and also a misaligned life strategy. Its not a binary choice.

                But attempting to shut off your biological imperative to actively participate in sexual competition requires paddling up the current whilst accepting, getting over yourself, learning and growing will lead you to a place of energy, of playful active sexual participation in life, of true lightness in being, and that's paddling with the current.

                Yes, I know MGTOW is about focusing on yourself and fully exploring life actively but there's no reason to stop just short. The burden playful active sexual participation places on you is really not that big if you have the right foundation.

                This isn't to say that we all don't need the occasional holiday from women, and from all the noise in order to re-calibrate. This isn't to say that the current state of Westernised culture and feminism isn't challenging but there is real beauty in unpacking your raw natural impetus and sexual drive.

                I understand that men will fall in all sorts of different locations on the wide spectrum of sexual drive, and also on the natural alpha-beta spectrum for that matter. But the way of the Church of MGTOW is a model maladapted. I will however recognise that perhaps some of us have disabilities that force an entirely different coping strategy.

                tl;dr - The Church of MGTOW is seductive but the strategy of coming to terms with oneself and the world is possible and it does allow a more holistic ROI in life.

                [–]MaxPower6 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                When people here say MGTOW can include spinning plates and casual sex but no LTRs or marriage, it contradicts the constant use of examples of great scientist geeks who were MGTOW who had absolutely nothing to do with women. Hence the confusion. The MGTOW definition seems too broad.

                [–][deleted] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Mgtow is only acceptable if you're under 25.

                [–]SwansonDinner -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

                Why are you so angry about what another guy does or does not do with his dick. Do you have some sort of homosexual fantasy in your mind? A threesome with a 2nd guy?

                There are plenty of MGTOW that still have sex. Educate yourself.

                [–]AmazonExplorer 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                You sound and whine like a tumblrina.

                [–]SwansonDinner 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Excellent debating skills. A comeback typical of a feminist. Did my comment hit too close to home?

                [–]MaxPower6 -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                Mgtow is world class hamstering and a buffer.