How do you feel about being outsourced?

[The Quandary]

Ignoring the possible jokes that could be made about jobs going overseas here, a question for other soulbonds who are outsourced--how do you feel about being outsourced rather than, say, insourced or simply some breed of non-soulbond plural systemmate?

It is a complicated matter for myself and Steven. I will be entirely blunt and say that I feel outsourced soulbonds, as well as their soulbonders, face an undeserved amount of stigma and illegitimacy simply for being outsourced. To list a few attitudes I have seen:

- There is a belief that outsourced soulbonds stem from "less creativity" on their soulbonder's part--an assumption that their soulbonder was too "feeble" to create their own truly original character, so instead they copied someone else's character.
- That outsourced soulbonds somehow arise from a pathetic weakness on behalf of their soulbonder. Clearly, their soulbonder was too inept and poor to make actual friends, so they made an "imaginary friend" based off their favorite character instead! And thus, naturally, these soulbonds aren't as well-developed as other kinds of head-people.
- Double standards of behavior! First, you meet someone who is disappointed that you do not act exactly like the character they imagined, that you are not Character-In-Real-Life. When you tell them, for instance, that you are more interested in mathematics right now than, oh, say, rock hunting, you can almost hear the "but that isn't canon!" And then you meet someone who expects you to have diverged completely and renounced all connections to your backstory, and to them, failure to do so is a reflection of some unconscious desire of your soulbonder.

In short--less "original", less "independent", less "real". It also seems that the more popular the source, the greater these stigmas multiply. (I do apologize for my saltiness. It is a bit of a thorn in my foot, I will admit.)

So, it would be easier for us, undoubtedly, if we had been insourced instead, or even a natural member of this group like Lark. But, were we able to choose now to become insourced or not-a-soulbond or what have you, we would not do so. Our backstories and sources, no matter how "illegitimate" or "unoriginal" as they may seem, are important to us. They are a large part of who we are. We had attempted to repudiate them in the past, only to find ourselves adrift--to return to them, and accept them as part of ourselves, was to place solid ground beneath our feet once more.

Or, at least, a raft... or a ship. Yes, a ship. We are far from shore, but the ocean is lovely.

In any case, I am not the best person I believe I can be, nor am I entirely the person I want to be, but I would rather start from this point and travel this route than take any other, even if they were easier. There are many sights I would miss otherwise...

And I do believe I have rambled on long enough. Please, do feel free to offer your own thoughts on this matter.

-- Rain

[Sparrow]

Finian:

Aw, no bad "outsourcing" puns?

I'm not sure if I technically qualify as outsourced, since I'm a bit of a hybrid, but...

It does seem pretty silly to me that there is a stigma attached to outsourcing. It's something our system runs into a lot, since our soulbonder is big into fanfiction, an outsourced medium. She hasn't soulbonded any purely outsourced characters though, just a couple of us hybrids. Not sure why not.

I originated as an original character with an outsourced backstory in a popular fandom, and I certainly don't feel any less "real" or "well-developed" just because my backstory came out of a video game. I stem from someone else's creation, sure, but it still requires a lot of effort and creativity to soulbond people like us. It seems to me that soulbonding, insourced or outsourced, requires a very deep understanding of a character in order to make us "living." If anything, it would be harder to soulbond an outsourced character, because outsourced characters are liable to begin with thought patterns and habits that are unfamiliar to the soulbonder, whereas the building blocks of insourced characters are more likely to originate locally. Does that make sense?

I love being derived from a popular fandom, to be honest. It puts me much closer to the outerworld than the insourced characters, just because there is an enormous community dedicated to exploring and writing about the world where I'm from. It was even better that I'm sourced from a fanfiction that had plenty of comments, so I get to see how people react and would interact with myself personally (apparently pretty well! I hate to brag, but out of the seven of us I seem to be one of the fan favorites! ). This makes me feel a lot more "real" than my insourced counterparts, who are only acknowledged by the soulbonder and a few of her close friends and family.

Like I said, though, I'm a hybrid instead of strictly outsourced. I'm really interested in the thoughts of fully outsourced soulbonds. What are your thoughts on the outerworld materials you are based on, or are you fully separated from them at this point?

[The Quandary]

I'm not sure if I technically qualify as outsourced, since I'm a bit of a hybrid, but...

This is an interesting question, actually. I think the general consensus is that outsourced refers to characters created by others, rather than characters created by the soulbonder in an outsourced settings, but I can see arguments going both ways.

I originated as an original character with an outsourced backstory in a popular fandom, and I certainly don't feel any less "real" or "well-developed" just because my backstory came out of a video game. I stem from someone else's creation, sure, but it still requires a lot of effort and creativity to soulbond people like us. It seems to me that soulbonding, insourced or outsourced, requires a very deep understanding of a character in order to make us "living." If anything, it would be harder to soulbond an outsourced character, because outsourced characters are liable to begin with thought patterns and habits that are unfamiliar to the soulbonder, whereas the building blocks of insourced characters are more likely to originate locally. Does that make sense?

I see your reasoning here, definitely. I think there's a number of ways an outsourced character can come in, some of which would require less understanding. If you believe in a spiritual model, the matter of needing understanding is moot--in the psychological model, I can see several routes by which an outsourced character might come in. The first is the way you described--basically knowing a character so well they up and talk back one day, only it's someone else's character instead of your own. A second would be if a piece of you split off, essentially, and that split piece took on the identity of the fictional character most similar to their identity. (I think that's the clinical theory of where DID introjects come from.) I think a third is possible, too, where the brain gets so good at giving life to others in the head that you end up needing to know less and less in order for it to animate a character you're less familiar with. I did not know Wallace's personality that well at all, but one day Rain just walked in and began critiquing me on my coding, heh.

Now it's my turn to go "I hope that made sense."

I love being derived from a popular fandom, to be honest. It puts me much closer to the outerworld than the insourced characters, just because there is an enormous community dedicated to exploring and writing about the world where I'm from. It was even better that I'm sourced from a fanfiction that had plenty of comments, so I get to see how people react and would interact with myself personally (apparently pretty well! I hate to brag, but out of the seven of us I seem to be one of the fan favorites! ;) ). This makes me feel a lot more "real" than my insourced counterparts, who are only acknowledged by the soulbonder and a few of her close friends and family.

Like I said, though, I'm a hybrid instead of strictly outsourced. I'm really interested in the thoughts of fully outsourced soulbonds. What are your thoughts on the outerworld materials you are based on, or are you fully separated from them at this point?

I'll let the others take over for now. :) -- Falah

---
Salut, my friend. It is I again, Rain.

Hmm. I wonder if a large part of this is dependent upon the source material itself, and how it compares to one's personal version of that world. My source is very loose, very open to speculation about how it all works, and it is overall a rather... youth-like source. Not "realistic", as many would say.

I am very attached to my source, as is Steven. We recognize that the fragmented memories we have of that world may be back-generated, but the memories we have are very vivid and real to us regardless, and a great part of who we are. We do acknowledge, of course, that others have the right to experience it as they choose, and will never, ever begrudge anyone for anything they do with it as long as they harm none. That would simply be... mmm, absurd of us. And we take laughter and lightness in it as well, of course, in browsing threads of "Who is your fictional crush?" and laughing when one of our sources is mentioned.

Still, it is rather strange sometimes, the feeling as if moving from one country to another where your home (and you yourself!) is a myth, and one retold many times in many versions. Mmm, but I meander.

-- Rain

[Sparrow]

Finian:

This is an interesting question, actually. I think the general consensus is that outsourced refers to characters created by others, rather than characters created by the soulbonder in an outsourced settings, but I can see arguments going both ways.

But see, that's the dilemma... I'm neither created by someone else nor am I original to the soulbonder (even when compared to other fandom OCs). My source material is a video game that starts with a couple pregenerated backgrounds, which basically puts the player into a premade character and says "This is who you are, now go from there." There are a lot of other Tabrises running around the fandom, and all of us have the same backstory: growing up in the alienage with Father and our two close cousins, having things go wrong on our wedding day, becoming Grey Wardens, and more. It's just our personalities that vary, and that is where the insourcing comes in... putting it in the context of selfhood, I have a sense of self separate from the other Tabrises I encounter but still identify myself as "Warden Tabris" from the source material.

Not saying I'm a legit outsourcee, but "insourced" also isn't really accurate either, at least as far as the simple definition I've seen goes. So, we've been using "hybrid." Definitely correct me if I'm wrong though! (Or maybe it would be a good discussion for a different thread...)

I see your reasoning here, definitely. I think there's a number of ways an outsourced character can come in, some of which would require less understanding. If you believe in a spiritual model, the matter of needing understanding is moot--in the psychological model, I can see several routes by which an outsourced character might come in. The first is the way you described--basically knowing a character so well they up and talk back one day, only it's someone else's character instead of your own. A second would be if a piece of you split off, essentially, and that split piece took on the identity of the fictional character most similar to their identity. (I think that's the clinical theory of where DID introjects come from.) I think a third is possible, too, where the brain gets so good at giving life to others in the head that you end up needing to know less and less in order for it to animate a character you're less familiar with. I did not know Wallace's personality that well at all, but one day Rain just walked in and began critiquing me on my coding, heh.

Now it's my turn to go "I hope that made sense."

Huh. I'd never thought of that before.

Our system uses the "getting to know you" method (at least as far as any of us can tell!). I wonder if the third possibility you posed may be responsible for why there are so gosh darn many of us in here. Though it still doesn't explain why she's never had a fully outsourced soulbond. Hm.

Salut, my friend. It is I again, Rain.

Hmm. I wonder if a large part of this is dependent upon the source material itself, and how it compares to one's personal version of that world. My source is very loose, very open to speculation about how it all works, and it is overall a rather... youth-like source. Not "realistic", as many would say.

I am very attached to my source, as is Steven. We recognize that the fragmented memories we have of that world may be back-generated, but the memories we have are very vivid and real to us regardless, and a great part of who we are. We do acknowledge, of course, that others have the right to experience it as they choose, and will never, ever begrudge anyone for anything they do with it as long as they harm none. That would simply be... mmm, absurd of us. And we take laughter and lightness in it as well, of course, in browsing threads of "Who is your fictional crush?" and laughing when one of our sources is mentioned.

Still, it is rather strange sometimes, the feeling as if moving from one country to another where your home (and you yourself!) is a myth, and one retold many times in many versions. Mmm, but I meander.

-- Rain

Eh heh, I wasn't around while my bonder was watching that show regularly, but from what the oldbies tell me, it sounds like a blast!

I know the feeling of back-generated memories. I remember training with my mom and sneaking down to the docks with my cousins, and yeah, these memories were crafted to create a compelling backstory, but they're compelling because they happened to me (even though they didn't?). I think this is true whether you're insourced or outsourced... you start off frontloaded with a bunch of memories that are both simultaneously real and not, because they happened to you, but never actually happened. Ha, I've never been good at this philosophy stuff, so I'm probably just talking myself around in circles here.

I get what you mean by the "moving" thing. For me, it feels like I'm a leaf on a tree. All versions of "Warden Tabris" stemmed from the same root, but we all went off in different directions after a certain point. So the other iterations of Warden Tabris are not exactly me, but there's still a feeling of connection, like we're all part of the same whole.

Ahahaha, I'm an elf making metaphors about trees. Wouldn't the elves back home be proud.

[The Quandary]

But see, that's the dilemma... I'm neither created by someone else nor am I original to the soulbonder (even when compared to other fandom OCs). My source material is a video game that starts with a couple pregenerated backgrounds, which basically puts the player into a premade character and says "This is who you are, now go from there." There are a lot of other Tabrises running around the fandom, and all of us have the same backstory: growing up in the alienage with Father and our two close cousins, having things go wrong on our wedding day, becoming Grey Wardens, and more. It's just our personalities that vary, and that is where the insourcing comes in... putting it in the context of selfhood, I have a sense of self separate from the other Tabrises I encounter but still identify myself as "Warden Tabris" from the source material.

Not saying I'm a legit outsourcee, but "insourced" also isn't really accurate either, at least as far as the simple definition I've seen goes. So, we've been using "hybrid." Definitely correct me if I'm wrong though! (Or maybe it would be a good discussion for a different thread...)

OH! I see what you're saying now. Sorry, I misread and thought you were an original character not present in any outsourced material, created in an outsourced world. The word "hybrid" makes sense here.

Huh. I'd never thought of that before.

Our system uses the "getting to know you" method (at least as far as any of us can tell!). I wonder if the third possibility you posed may be responsible for why there are so gosh darn many of us in here. Though it still doesn't explain why she's never had a fully outsourced soulbond. Hm.

I wonder. Our outsourcing seems to have stopped with Steven and Rain. We've had other fictives walk in for a very short time, but they don't hang around and depart after a chat or two.

Rain's out for the moment, so he'll have to drop in later, but I just want to say that the "it may have never happened, but it still happened to me" is perhaps the best way I've seen anyone describe backstory memories. We might end up stealing that. :P

-- Falah

[Tri]

Amen, Rain. We very much agree with you. Now, to be fair, that might be selfish self-interest since we are mostly outsourced MLP:FiM ponies from the show and two fanfics. Hail, our soulbonder, is still terrified of the judgement that us and she will receive. She has internalized it a bit. She will stomp anyone who judges us into the ground, but if someone ever judges her and tears her apart for the soulbonding, she will just sit there and take it because she feels she deserves it.

On the topics of hybrids, we are a bit. Yes, all three of us come from characters made and modified by others. But our three sources are not quite compatible with each other. Hail figured out how to stitch them all together and how to compose us into a single body and have it make logical sense. Also, she sort of broke a piece off of herself which was incorporated into Violet. Very complicated story. So we are mostly outsourced.

[TechnicolorPhase]

I'm the host/soulbonder, but I would still like to participate in this discussion, if that is all right...

... Anyway, I have been terrified to talk to anyone about my Soulbonds, particularly online, because they are outsourced - though "hybrids" would be a much better descriptor. Just about the only thing they share with their canon counterparts are their names and basic elements of their character designs (albeit heavily stylized). Their personalities have been heavily altered, and their backstories entirely rewritten. But even though they have basically taken on a life of their own, I don't feel comfortable calling them "insourced" due to the fact that they still share their names and physical resemblances with their canon counterparts.

Our system has always functioned with hybrid characters. Due to the stigma attached to outsourced soulbonds, I have tried to create insourced soulbonds, but for whatever reason, that is simply not the way our mind works. The way our mind seems to function best is when it is outsourcing certain characters' designs and basic personality traits, and then shaping them into a new direction. I like to compare our soulbonding process to sculpting: we start with a base and then shape it in a way that suits us.

[octomantra]

Octi: Hope nobody minds us bumping this. Everyone here is outsourced.

- There is a belief that outsourced soulbonds stem from "less creativity" on their soulbonder's part--an assumption that their soulbonder was too "feeble" to create their own truly original character, so instead they copied someone else's character.

This is really interesting, because I remember back in the old soulbonding community that it was considered unusual and slightly taboo to consciously forge a connection with an outsourced character (and succeed). It wasn’t taken as a sign that the soulbonder was uncreative. It was out of concern for the soulbond’s consent. The stigma came from the idea that the soulbonder was supposedly being overly controlling of the situation or acting as a “fangirl.” Almost everyone who had outsourced soulbonds—including myself—claimed that the connection was not a conscious choice. It kinda just…happened. Speaking for myself, I’ve never tried to control who I bonded with. In a strange way, it bears resemblance to how you would meet someone in real life. At the same time, I personally never had a problem if the soulbonder reached out to the outsourced character first, as long as the soulbond agrees on their own to stick around and the bonder is open to deviation.

I do remember a couple of people criticizing outsourced soulbonds, but you could tell that they were afraid of potential backlash because they did a lot of backpedaling as they presented their arguments and because a lot of people in the old community were very vocal about their outsourced members.

I wonder if this newer stigma is bleeding over from the tulpa community? I know that it is traditionally frowned upon to create a tulpa based on a pre-existing fictional character or real person because of potential ID crisis (has this been proven? Or is this just what the founder of the community believed?). Also, from what I gather (I could be wrong), some tulpamancers have a problem with MLP's popularity and the number of pony tulpas running around. For some reason.

- That outsourced soulbonds somehow arise from a pathetic weakness on behalf of their soulbonder. Clearly, their soulbonder was too inept and poor to make actual friends, so they made an "imaginary friend" based off their favorite character instead.

I had plenty of friends growing up, and I currently have a close friend from college, so that factoid doesn’t apply. The challenge I had when I was younger was that I was moving constantly, but I knew that I could easily socialize if I chose to do so. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve simply become more introverted and interested in my work, so having one good RL friend and a bunch of soulbonds is perfect.

And thus, naturally, these soulbonds aren't as well-developed as other kinds of head-people.

Ahahaha—no. Everyone here feels more like real people than their canon counterparts. Even the oldest members still surprise me all the time, and, if I’m going to be blunt, they’re often more self-aware and perceptive than people in real life.

- Double standards of behavior! First, you meet someone who is disappointed that you do not act exactly like the character they imagined, that you are not Character-In-Real-Life. When you tell them, for instance, that you are more interested in mathematics right now than, oh, say, rock hunting, you can almost hear the "but that isn't canon!" And then you meet someone who expects you to have diverged completely and renounced all connections to your backstory, and to them, failure to do so is a reflection of some unconscious desire of your soulbonder.

The bonds here haven’t spoken directly to people who are familiar with their canon material, though they have no problems telling me when they are not matching up…which is fairly often, especially with Allen (who is a hybrid) and the countries. I’ve never interpreted this as my unconscious sticking its fingers into anything, especially since there are several members who come from stories where parallel universes and alternate versions of the self are very important.

In the end, where someone comes from is of little importance. We’re very welcoming and egalitarian as a group, and it would be rather silly to turn anyone away simply because of their origin. I’m sure that if anyone who is purely insourced were to come along, they would be accepted.

[team gmmn]

People here seem to have a healthy separation from our canon works. It's like the canon works are us but not us at the same time, which makes it easier for us to deal with it.

[Mew]

I'm not one of the 'bonds, but I saw discussion about soulbonders who have outsourced bonds, so I just wanna say my part before I let some of my people say their part.

I personally don't blame people for being wary of people who have fictional characters as bonds, especially if it's something they chose. I'd be wary too; I'm wary even about myself, and am constantly questioning both what's going on and what my intentions are. But in the end, I didn't choose to do this, and I don't continue to choose to do this; I've also tried to stop, and to erase The Network and be "normal" but that ended in some bad mental distress and a failure to function that was worse than I already have. So I just let it run, and I do my best to keep a good environment here, something I can't say for my younger self and for other people I've met. But I'm doing my best. I don't force people to join, and even if I did, they wouldn't stay if they weren't going to already. That's just not how it works. And also, in the end, I don't care what the other soulbonder is doing. Me being wary isn't going to somehow translate into me being a jerk to them, or saying it rudely to their face.

And yes, I didn't have all that many friends growing up; my paranoia and anxiety, etc, were far worse when I was little than it is now. And yes, I could have started because of that. I certainly could have started as a coping mechanism, to deal with what I felt I couldn't cope with, which was everything. Literally it runs in my family to be susceptible to this sort of thing, and to struggle coping with life, more than a "normal" person would. I also had some... issues with friends when I was younger. But that's no reason to look down on me.

Also, I HAVE original characters, they're super neat, and they definitely would probably have become bonds if I didn't already have The Network. I just... don't have the mental space to house two groups like that, and I can't make them be in the same space. I'm also already using space in my head for my daemon, Sal, and for some other things I have a spiritual connection to. And also my Vermin Hordes, which I'm still holding on to even though I don't pay attention to them as much anymore. I don't have any more room, I can't divide my attention between all these things AND school AND THEN a different group of bonds after that. And if I have to choose, I choose The Network. And they're just as developed as anyone I've met, and they affect me just as much as anyone else would.

It doesn't help that it probably DOES have to do with how I create attachments, though not every character I love stays and not every character I hate leaves. But I just... connect differently than other people, and I make connections different. My brain's just all weird.

-Mew

---------

FINALLY Mew ended! Jeez. Anyways, I'm one of the "'bonds", obviously, and I'm from a canon that, if it's not considered popular or silly or childish now, was definitely popular back in the day. So, as a result, I tend not to tell people who I am or where I come from, just because I can't be bothered dealing with idiots, and a good chunk of The Network is the same.

But the general consensus around here is that we ARE the canon character that we're taken from, and we're FROM there. And most of us can go back there, as long as we're not dead where we came from. We saw so much of the whole "THEY'LL HAVE AN CRISIS!!!!" yelling from the tulpa community when we were snooping around (against my better judgement) that we made a collective meme out of it. Example: telling someone they haven't been in The Network long enough to even THINK of having that identity crisis, or someone threatening that they'll have that crisis, right here, right now, because we mention their world, and not one of us can stop them.

Would some people think this is bad or unhealthy? I honestly don't care. What are they going to do? Call us fake? Slander our "good" name? I'm trembling.

If people want to doubt us then that's fine, but they're wrong. We'll do us, and they can do them, to borrow a phrase from Mew himself.

-B