(cache) Feel the Bern? : standupshots

Even if Sanders won, Congress would never pass anything he proposed. Obama struggled to get the Health Care act through, and then Congress (Republican-controlled, btw) has spent the rest of his presidency taking it apart. They've literally done almost nothing else.

edit Popular support doesn't result in immediate action. Just look at the UK. They had a referendum. Which means it's a public vote held nationwide. This is the meaning of democracy. Now they have the UK Supreme Court saying the Prime Minister can't do what the people told him to do. So the UKSC just told the UK they don't get their way unless Parliament (UK's Congress equivalent) approves it. Yay democracy!

Bringing it back around, the US doesn't even have a referendum system.

"oh, you want the government to do blah blah? go fuck yourself"

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[–]new_account_5009 7ポイント8ポイント9ポイント 1日前 (28子コメント)

Yep. Not to get political in a joke subreddit, but the OP's premise is exactly why free college tuition is probably not a great idea. When the cost is zero (especially if housing is also free), pretty much everyone will get a college education. It's the same scenario we have now with high school education (which is free everywhere unless you choose to spend more for private schooling). If virtually everyone has a college degree, they become meaningless, much like how having a high school diploma today doesn't tell employers much. Note that the opposite is not true. Not having a high school diploma tells the employer a great deal about you, and high school dropouts face a very tough road when it comes to employment prospects.

Arguably, we're already partially down that path, in large part due to federal subsidies with student loans. Because virtually anyone can get a student loan with no type of underwriting required, the demand for college education is artificially high, which (1) increases the price of a college education, but also (2) reduces the value of a college education. After graduation with a bachelor's degree, people are increasingly pursuing further education to set themselves apart from the competition in the jobs market. This includes traditional post-undergrad education like grad school, but it also includes the thousands of certification programs out there for pretty much any skill imaginable.

Theoretically, our society as a whole is better off with citizens attending 17 years of schooling rather than the current 13 in the free K-12 framework, but I think that's dubious at best. The best and the brightest (e.g., the Elon Musk types) will continue to do their thing regardless of whether or not they get an extra four years for free. Meanwhile, while the future McDonald's employee will be marginally better at skills like critical thinking that come with a college education, at the end of the day, he won't really need those skills for his particular job, even though employers will increasingly require them.

None of this addresses the costs. This post is already getting way too long, but clearly, there's both (1) a direct cost of subsidizing the universities themselves that would deliver a free education, but also (2) an indirect societal cost that arises from pulling people out of the labor force in what could otherwise be really productive years.

tl;dr: Providing free college education sounds excellent on the surface, but it's really tough to justify it from a cost/benefit standpoint.

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[–]LifeBeginsAt10kRPM 6ポイント7ポイント8ポイント 1日前 (2子コメント)

No. that's not how it would work. Plenty of countries have free public universities, and also maintain private ones.

There just wouldn't be enough space for everyone, placement exams would be required and people that are getting out of high school in better positions will do better at getting into college.

It's about smart poor people being able to get into school just like someone who has money.

Of course, in the US we have a lot of problems with the kind of stuff I just described, it could lead to corruption, it could lead to whites getting better chances of coming into the schools, or the schools just being in higher income areas.

Basically it could have a lot of the problems out public school system already has.

I think it's a great idea, but has a lot of hurdles to be successful.

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[–]NisslMissl 11ポイント12ポイント13ポイント 1日前 (2子コメント)

Indeed. Rather than paying back a loan with interest, you pay it back in tax later. If you don't make enough money to pay it back later, the slack will be taken up by those who do. That's what a progressive tax system is for.

Here in Germany, where a semester of university costs less than a textbook, you need certain grades to enter a course or have to pass an aptitude test before being enrolled.

Not everyone goes to university, but poor kids do have the opportunity. If your parents can't cover your cost of living, you can request Bafög, which is an interest free loan capped at around 670 Euros a month, of which you only have to pay back half.

And despite all that, we're the fourth largest economy in the world and had a tax surplus of 18,5 billion Euros in the first half of 2016. It's hardly impossible to implement in a functioning society.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AYcU2nhnZg

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Another thing that got forgotten was the fact that against all probability a sperm whale had suddenly been called into existence several miles above the surface of an alien planet.

And since this is not a naturally tenable position for a whale, this poor innocent creature had very little time to come to terms with its identity as a whale before it then had to come to terms with not being a whale any more.

This is a complete record of its thoughts from the moment it began its life till the moment it ended it.

Ah … ! What’s happening? it thought.

Er, excuse me, who am I?

Hello?

Why am I here? What’s my purpose in life?

What do I mean by who am I?

Calm down, get a grip now … oh! this is an interesting sensation, what is it? It’s a sort of … yawning, tingling sensation in my … my … well I suppose I’d better start finding names for things if I want to make any headway in what for the sake of what I shall call an argument I shall call the world, so let’s call it my stomach.

Good. Ooooh, it’s getting quite strong. And hey, what’s about this whistling roaring sound going past what I’m suddenly going to call my head? Perhaps I can call that … wind! Is that a good name? It’ll do … perhaps I can find a better name for it later when I’ve found out what it’s for. It must be something very important because there certainly seems to be a hell of a lot of it. Hey! What’s this thing? This … let’s call it a tail – yeah, tail. Hey! I can can really thrash it about pretty good can’t I? Wow! Wow! That feels great! Doesn’t seem to achieve very much but I’ll probably find out what it’s for later on. Now – have I built up any coherent picture of things yet?

No.

Never mind, hey, this is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I’m quite dizzy with anticipation …

Or is it the wind?

There really is a lot of that now isn’t it?

And wow! Hey! What’s this thing suddenly coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding name like … ow … ound … round … ground! That’s it! That’s a good name – ground!

I wonder if it will be friends with me?

And the rest, after a sudden wet thud, was silence.

Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the bowl of petunias as it fell was Oh no, not again. Many people have speculated that if we knew exactly why the bowl of petunias had thought that we would know a lot more about the nature of the universe than we do now.

--Douglas Adams. Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

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Bernie's history of compromise is much greater than Clinton's. Where are you getting this "he won't compromise" info? The Republicans are the ones who don't like to compromise, and as such, Bernie won't compromise with them. Bernie's entire goal was to get people to vote out republicans. Clinton's is not. Get your facts straight. He'll try, they'll keep blocking it. Clinton, who is center-right, will not get done what she promises to get done. Her "compromise" will be a minute portion of what she promises, if anything at all.

Look at ACA. It was supposed to be single-payer, but look what happened after Republicans ate into it? Premiums are now higher than ever and ACA costs are greater than old insurance costs. AND you get fined if you can't afford it in a non-expanded state. Clinton won't do shit for the American people (if she can't flip the senate, but someone as boring as her is dependent solely on Bernie and other people to flip them for her.). Clinton is a weak candidate, despite all the hub-bub on TV.

[–]IND_CFC 14ポイント15ポイント16ポイント 1日前 (3子コメント)

Where are you getting this "he won't compromise" info?

Barney Frank:

Ever since Sanders joined the House of Representatives in 1991, Frank has consistently and publicly slammed the Vermonter as personally abrasive, uninterested in compromise, and overly critical of would-be allies.

.

Bernie Sanders has been in Congress for 25 years with little to show for it in terms of his accomplishments and that’s because of the role he stakes out. It is harder to get things done in the American political system than a lot of people realize, and what happens is they blame the people in office for the system. And that’s the same with the Tea Party. It’s “I voted for these Republicans, we have a Republican Congress, we voted for them, they took over Congress, they didn’t accomplish anything.” You gotta win at least two elections in a row.

.

Not surprisingly, many of his colleagues have reacted with irritation to his attacks. Even some liberal Democrats describe Mr. Sanders, who does not suffer criticism lightly, as difficult to work with.

Ralph Nader:

“He’s really a lone ranger, and that’s a drawback when you run for president because I’m not the only one he’s not returning calls to,” Nader says.

O'Malley on his refusal to compromise on immigration reform

Or, you can look at his own words on how he wouldn't attempt to compromise with Republicans if elected

.

The truth is that Bernie's stance on the Amber Alert was simply the latest in a political career filled with "principled" stances that did nothing but serve his own agenda. He has consistently voted against the Brady Bill because he felt the five-day federally mandated waiting period would be too long for Vermont residents. He voted against Ted Kennedy's comprehensive immigration bill because he didn't approve of the guest worker program which he felt would drive down wages for low-income workers. He voted against the second portion of the TARP funding which was used to help bail out the American automotive industry. He voted against President Bill Clinton's health care bill because it would cover 95% of the population rather than 100% through a single-payer system that Sanders was supporting. And he was even one of just 19 members of the House who voted against a bill that required rapists to identify their HIV status to their victims because he was concerned it might potentially force innocent people to undergo testing.

Oh, and let's not forget that he has been consistently ranked at the most partisan person in the Senate

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CLINTON: Some are new to politics completely. They’re children of the Great Recession. And they are living in their parents’ basement. They feel they got their education and the jobs that are available to them are not at all what they envisioned for themselves. And they don’t see much of a future. I met with a group of young black millennials today and you know one of the young women said, “You know, none of us feel that we have the job that we should have gotten out of college. And we don’t believe the job market is going to give us much of a chance.” So that is a mindset that is really affecting their politics. And so if you’re feeling like you’re consigned to, you know, being a barista, or you know, some other job that doesn’t pay a lot, and doesn’t have some other ladder of opportunity attached to it, then the idea that maybe, just maybe, you could be part of a political revolution is pretty appealing. So I think we should all be really understanding of that and should try to do the best we can not to be, you know, a wet blanket on idealism. We want people to be idealistic. We want them to set big goals. But to take what we can achieve now and try to present them as bigger goals.

She doesn't want to make false promises. Bernie defended and understood what she said here. If anything, this only made me like her more.