上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Samson-I-Am[S] [スコア非表示]  (415子コメント)

First off, I'm really enjoying the conversation and really appreciate all of your thoughts. However, I'd like to hopefully weed out some of the flaws in the weaker arguments where commenters are comparing racist norms to sexist norms in an attempt to justify their stance rather than looking at the issue in isolation. These are false equivalencies and deviate from the central argument. Here's a quick thought experiment I just thought of, and I'm tired so hopefully it doesn't go too far off the rails. Here goes:

Danny is born and raised in an all female home and has no contact with the outside world until his 18th birthday. His mother and 3 sisters are mean, condescending, and don't respect his opinions. Danny constantly tells his mothers and sisters to stop 'womansplaining' everything to him. Danny grows up and leaves his oppressed, female dominated home and starts to meet new people. To his surprise, most of the women he meets are respectful, kind, and considerate of his views. Occasionally, he has female encounters reminiscent of his upbringing. One evening in a crowded bar full of men and women, he loudly declares to this new female acquaintance that she should stop 'womansplaining' everything to him.

Given Danny's upbringing, some might feel he's justified because of the way his worldview was shaped. Is Danny justified in using the term 'womansplaining'? Does his negative, subjective experience growing up in the aforementioned hostile environment mean that the rest of the female population should accept his assessment of all women based on his previous experience as an objective truth about women? Is this term helpful in any way? Is it ok for Danny to use this term only to condescending women but not toward kind women? Should he forgo use of the term altogether given that his limited experience actually doesn't represent the reality that most women are thoughtful, kind, and considerate. Who should change in this scenario: Danny or the entire female population?

[–]ghotier19∆ [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Danny exists in isolation in your argument. This is where the analogy fails, because women who experience mansplaining don't exist in isolation, and they see it happen from a wide swath of the male population to wide swaths of the female population. Further, mansplaining is not just being condescending, it's the implied belief that he person being explained to doesn't know because that person is a woman. Danny has no reason to think that he is being condescended to by the whole world because he is a man.

[–]Nyxto [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Isn't it fallacious thinking to assume that someone's bad actions are based on their sex? Wouldn't Danny, in this situation, be just as wrong?

Edit: Sorry, was super tired last night and read the comment as an argument against OP, sort of glazed over the top. That was my bad.

[–]prudemare [スコア非表示]  (166子コメント)

You're operating under the assumption that there is no universal inequality between the sexes; that the world doesn't favor men to women. Your example would only apply if the situation (Danny's upbringing) were the same universally. Neither is the issue that one sex is mean and condescending. The issue is that one sex is favored over the other, on a level so ingrained as to render it unexamined.

Feminist theory is focused on the root of sexism, so if you're truly wanting to understand the other side of this argument and have your view changed, you must accept this undercurrent of sex favoritism (aka woman-hating). The root of sexism is woman-hating, which is so ingrained in society that we don't see it. In this view, 'mansplaining' is a woman-created word, describing the phenomenon they see: woman-hating. Should that scenario occur in the reverse (Danny's situation but alligned) then the sex reversal would make 'womansplaining' not sexist either.

It's easy to dismiss sexism as tit-for-tat, but that's top level thinking, not root level. Root level is man=good woman=bad systemically, as in all the time. By the time we get to mansplaining, it is end product and the top of the branches so to speak. Now at the end product, it's a phenomenon of a man over valuing his own thoughts, while perhaps assuming the woman needs to have things explained to her, unprompted. Both are rooted in sexism, man>woman, but not necessarily intentional on the man's part since it is subliminal at the root level.

[–]-RandomPoem- [スコア非表示]  (187子コメント)

In an effort to not be an ass, I'll take the bait. Being a straight white man (or even just presenting as such) confers incredible benefits, which are nearly innumerable. In your magical example, "womansplaining" reflects a term created by the oppressed (Danny) to communicate his frustrations, marginalization, and emotions in a way that combats the majority (women in his family) and their treatment of him. If there was a whole country filled with Danny-like individuals, they could unite under this term, and raise awareness of a group that has no real experience being systematically oppressed on any grand scale to the plight of those who are frustrated, marginalized, and quite simply treated as lesser simply because they are NOT the majority. This is the exact same phenomenon as the outrage that occurs in the average white mind when, for example, a student of color sells sweatshirts that read "All White People are Racist", or perhaps make a human chain that forces white people to walk a little farther. The powerful are never debased and made powerless on any meaningful scale; if a straight white man walks into a gay bar and gets oppressed, he can literally go into 99.99999% of other buildings in the country and expect to be in the position of power. He is affirmed by 99.999% of movies, advertisements, and political agenda. When a woman points out "mansplaining", she illustrates to the man, who by virtue of his sex/gender does not understand, the power that he wields so haphazardly.

"But I'm not racist/sexist/et cetera, why should I be punished?"

Wrong! You aren't being punished. Once the 30 second inconvenience is over, you get to go back to being in the pole position once more. Your teeny tiny window into losing your power and privilege is so darn annoying that it OUTRAGES you!!! Imagine that feeling, except all the time. You might not be reminded of why society deems you inferior literally every day, but something small and seemingly innocuous can represent the immense pressure of societal oppression in a big way.

So, next time you read about a bunch of student of color linking hands and making white students walk around them, remember that they are illustrating their everyday reality and frustrations with the system so to speak. Put yourself in someone else's shoes, and see if you don't maybe appreciate how walking an extra minute or two to class is a small price to pay for all the privilege in the world for the other 1,438 minutes in the day.

(end rant)

EDIT: https://i.imgflip.com/1d43te.jpg

[–]electricfistula5∆ [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

In an effort to not be an ass, I'll take the bait.

I think it says something about your mindset that you imagine the OP, who is presenting a fairly straightforward argument, in a subreddit meant for debate, as "bait". It's as if you think anyone who disagrees with you must be a troll.

Being a straight white man (or even just presenting as such) confers incredible benefits, which are nearly innumerable

It's also interesting that you added "White" into this, when the original discussion is about the term mansplaining.

Wrong! You aren't being punished. Once the 30 second inconvenience is over, you get to go back to being in the pole position once more. Your teeny tiny window into losing your power and privilege is so darn annoying that it OUTRAGES you!!! Imagine that feeling, except all the time. You might not be reminded of why society deems you inferior literally every day, but something small and seemingly innocuous can represent the immense pressure of societal oppression in a big way.

I'm not going to provide sources, mainly because I don't have the time, but also because all of these are obvious and well documented facts. In the same way that I wouldn't the source "The sky is blue" I don't think any are required here. If I'm wrong though, let me know which of the following you disagree with and I'll be happy to provide reputable sources - IF, you will admit, having asked for a source and been provided a good one, that I am right. Here goes.

Starting with school, boys...

  • Get in trouble more frequently

  • Get suspended more frequently

  • Get expelled more frequently

  • Get worse scores in every subject and every grade

  • Graduate less frequently

  • Attend college less frequently

  • Graduate from college less frequently

Is this because boys are inherently dumber, have inherent behavior problems, are naturally uninterested in school? Or is it because an education system mainly staffed by women is well equipped to teach girls and not well equipped to teach boys?

Men are:

  • More likely to be injured on the job

  • More likely to be killed on the job

  • More likely to be homeless

  • More likely to go to prison and face longer sentences for similar crimes

  • More likely to be the victim of violence

  • More likely to commit suicide

  • Less likely to receive social support for problems like homelessness, being the victim of violence, or being the victim of domestic abuse or rape.

  • Less likely to get custody of their children in a divorce

Men and women have different problems in society. Identifying those problems and fixing them is a good thing. Trying to compete over who is the most oppressed is a bad thing. Women have real problems and so do men.

Society does not constantly express the idea that women are inferior to men.

[–]Arstulex [スコア非表示]  (56子コメント)

30 second inconvenience is over

It might just be thirty seconds, but it's thirty seconds I would have had to endure because of the actions of other individuals who I happen to share a race and sex with (both of those being things I didn't choose). You're not punishing me based on my actions as an individual but because of the group(s) I am part of.

By definition, that is objectively sexist and racist.

[–]Iswallowedafly15∆ [スコア非表示]  (50子コメント)

If you're not doing the action that is manplaning then why would have to endure anything.

People don't throw that word around for no reason.

it is a term used to describe a particular action.

[–]BlitzBasic2∆ [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

That's a pretty big assumption. Other insults also get used in situations where they aren't justified.

[–]Iswallowedafly15∆ [スコア非表示]  (12子コメント)

But then the problem is with the context of how a word is being used and not the word.

if people are saying that a man is manplaining when they are not, they are an idiot.

[–]SunRaSquarePants [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

From wikipedia:

No true Scotsman is an informal fallacy, an ad hoc attempt to retain an unreasoned assertion.[1] When faced with a counterexample to a universal claim ("no Scotsman would do such a thing"), rather than denying the counterexample or rejecting the original claim, this fallacy modifies the subject of the assertion to exclude the specific case or others like it by rhetoric, without reference to any specific objective rule ("no true Scotsman would do such a thing"; i.e., those who perform that action are not part of our group and thus criticism of that action is not criticism of the group).[2]

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]FlyingFoxOfTheYard_19∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

    Sorry Iswallowedafly, your comment has been removed:

    Comment Rule 2. "Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if the rest of it is solid." See the wiki page for more information.

    If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.

    [–]BobLeBoeuf [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

    In an effort to not be an ass

    If this is your effort, I'd hate to see what you're like normally...

    In your magical example

    That's not condescending in the least...

    average white mind

    Please do elaborate on the "average white mind"

    This is the exact same phenomenon as the outrage that occurs in the average white mind when, for example, a student of color sells sweatshirts that read "All White People are Racist", or perhaps make a human chain that forces white people to walk a little farther.

    No it's not. It is racist and bigoted. It makes others hateful of you when they otherwise were not, it exacerbates the problems that those protesting or making the shirt claim to see. It does absolutely nothing to combat any of the perceived societal issues.

    if a straight white man walks into a gay bar and gets oppressed, he can literally go into 99.99999% of other buildings in the country and expect to be in the position of power.

    Does that make the oppression justified? Even assuming you're correct about his perceived position of power, is that sufficient to justify the oppression?

    Once the 30 second inconvenience is over, you get to go back to being in the pole position once more.

    So, it's justified? That means you're not being punished? Fighting perceived societal injustices by exacerbating societal injustices?

    [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Sorry -RandomPoem-, your comment has been removed:

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      [–]BobLeBoeuf [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

      Thank you for your thoughtful response regarding the points of your "argument" that I pointed out...

      [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

      [removed]

        [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

        Sorry -RandomPoem-, your comment has been removed:

        Comment Rule 3. "Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view. If you are unsure whether someone is genuine, ask clarifying questions (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting ill behaviour, please message us." See the wiki page for more information.

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        [–]DickieDawkins [スコア非表示]  (44子コメント)

        confers incredible benefits,

        No it doesn't. It really really doesn't. A lack of critical thinking causes people to believe this because people in power are white men.

        [–][削除されました]  (40子コメント)

        [removed]

          [–]FlyingFoxOfTheYard_19∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

          Sorry -RandomPoem-, your comment has been removed:

          Comment Rule 2. "Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if the rest of it is solid." See the wiki page for more information.

          If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.

          [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (20子コメント)

          There's a few of the "men totally have it worse" types downvoting anything they disagree with throughout the thread.

          [–]-RandomPoem- [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

          I'm at -4 right now... for posting something incredibly diomatic, well-worded, and completely in-line with what experts in the field would say...

          but when it comes right down to it, the armchair scholars know best! (/s)

          [–]electricfistula5∆ [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

          I'm at -4 right now... for posting something incredibly diomatic, well-worded,

          You made a snarky comment and linked to a blogpost. I'll bold the snark for you.

          I mean, that was just the first Google result. Everywhere you look and everything you do is dominated by straight white maleness, with very few exceptions. If you honestly can't comprehend this, I'm amazed at how willfully blind you must be. Additionally, great job arguing only one point in my entire post. Your downvote tastes distinctly... "TLDNR"

          I wouldn't exactly call that "incredibly diplomatic". Also, you might be being downvoted because you aren't addressing the OP - which was about the term "mansplaining". You brought in sexual orientation and race for some reason. If I had to make an incredibly diplomatic guess as to why, I'd guess... Well, actually, I'm going to bite my tongue and respect the rules here.

          [–][削除されました]  (6子コメント)

          [removed]

            [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

            Sorry AerMarcus, your comment has been removed:

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            [–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

            [removed]

              [–]etquod39∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

              Sorry -RandomPoem-, your comment has been removed:

              Comment Rule 5. "No low effort comments. Comments that are only jokes, links, or 'written upvotes', for example. Humor, links, and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments." See the wiki page for more information.

              If you would like to appeal, please message the moderators by clicking this link.

              [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (37子コメント)

              Is Danny justified in using the term 'womansplaining'?

              No. It was appropriate within his small, confined world, but in the broader sphere of human interaction, men are the majority. Danny benefits from the world he moved into on his 18th birthday, even if he was not raised in it.

              The whole issue, which you never really acknowledged, is the perpetuation of systemic sexism that mansplaining does. Pointing out that men are the primary perpetrators and beneficiaries of that sexism in the term for it is not sexism.

              [–]GaslightProphet [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

              1. The problem with your scenario is that Danny's experience is limited to about 4 people. Mansplaining is a borader phenomenon that is reflective of the experiences of millions of women.

              2. Mansplaining does not indict all men. The gendered prefix indicates it is a phenomenon unique to men, not that all men engage in it.

              [–]ohmira [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              Not that this is a complete argument, but I would mention that 'mansplaining' happens multiple times a week by well meaning and kind men as well as jerks. It ranges in severity, but its always frustrating. IE pushing on an unlabeled door and having a male behind you physically push your body out of the way while explaining the door is a pull while they pull with a huge smile on their face. As if there was some other option beside push and pull. It happens at the gym, when you try a new machine and are reading the sticker and some man comes over and takes physical control of the equipment to show you how it works/their muscles. Or being at work unrolling a tangled hose and an unknown man literally RUNS over to you to grab it out of your hands to explain their technique for untwisting the thing, all while making it more tangled, and then leaving it in your hands saying 'just do what I did and you'll get there eventually sweetie' with a huge smile on their face.

              In your thought experiment, Danny would need to have 4+ experiences of mansplaining weekly after he leaves his home, by jerks and well meaning women both to make it relevant to the concept of mansplaining. I've known women to do the over-explaining, but very rarely to show off or catch a person's eye. It's something men do to seem intelligent/useful in front of women, and while its annoying if it doesn't help - it can be helpful, if it comes without a condescending narrative. My least favorite is the tag-a-long rejection we must go through which is often some form of 'so you have a boyfriend? why isn't he helping his lovely lady with things like this?'

              I'm not a fan of labelling things, especially with catchy phrases meant to fit in a hashtag, but when it happens constantly and undermines your ability to learn things or experience things on your own, in the way you want to, it does become a burden that warrants a look at the behaviors intent and societal value.

              I appreciate you asking to get that dialogue going while including multiple perspectives.

              edit: changed ratio to be more a more accurate descriptor

              [–]discobrisco [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              You sound much more interested in trying to change other peoples views than your own.

              [–]Samson-I-Am[S] [スコア非表示]  (298子コメント)

              For the sake of not moving the goal post here, a quick prayer to lord Google has delivered us the sweet manna that is the definition of the word in question so there's no need to give your own definition here or the need to 'splain' the word itself to me or anyone else. That blurs the line of what I'm aiming to argue here.

              Mainsplain: (of a man) explain (something) to someone, typically a woman, in a manner regarded as condescending or patronizing. "I'm listening to a guy mansplain economics to his wife"

              [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (287子コメント)

              That definition doesn't really help your argument. The whole premise behind the idea of mansplaining is that the man is condescending to the woman, but would not condescend to another man. It's an example of infantilizing women.

              [–]Samson-I-Am[S] [スコア非表示]  (260子コメント)

              I believe you're missing the point of my argument here. A man condescending to a woman because she is a woman is sexist. A woman responding with a gender slur is also sexist.

              [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (242子コメント)

              Pointing out sexism from men by referring to it as sexism from men is not sexist. That would be like saying "the KKK is a white supremacist organization" is a racist statement because it uses the word white.

              [–]Samson-I-Am[S] [スコア非表示]  (191子コメント)

              Pointing out sexism is not the same as using a slur to do so. Calling out sexism is a good thing. Using a slur to do so is a bad thing. It perpetuates the very thing (sexism) that was originally called out.

              [–]tanacobus [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

              Can you explain your rationale for calling it a slur in the first place? As others pointed out, the term isn't meant to generalize actions of the gender as a whole, but specific actions of sexist people within a specific gender.

              People are defending the label of slur by saying assigning gender to a term is inherently sexist. It isn't though, because we're specifically talking about an action taken by a sexist man aimed at a woman. It isn't sexist to identify a gender.

              People are also saying that women can be condescending as well. This is true, but given the specificity of the term in question, why does that matter? For example, take two terms like "bigoted" and "homophobic." Is homophobic a slur because it's pointing out a specific view by a specific group whereas bigoted is more of a general, non-identifying term? No, because people can relate to the concrete definition of homophobic in the context it carries, and we can all agree that there are heterosexual people who engage in homophobia. Anyone can engage in bigotry, and maybe there should be a specific word for any and all types, but that really doesn't matter when we're contextualizing these terms.

              It seems like specificity of the word is what people are getting hung up on, and somehow drawing a conclusion that the more specific the word is, the more offensive it is. But I find it pretty difficult to swallow that merely pointing out a social construct in terms of gender can be considered an offensive slur.

              [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (97子コメント)

              Pointing out sexism is not the same as using a slur to do so.

              A slur, by default, refers to all members of a group. "Mansplaining" only refers to the specific action of sexist condescension by men; it does not accuse all men of this.

              How does your issue with "mansplaining" differ from my example of "white supremacy"? After all, racial supremacy is a bad thing, no matter which race is being purported as superior. Should including the word "white" in the term be considered racist? If not, why not?

              [–]Ragdoll_Proletariat1∆ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I'm not interested in changing your view. I just wanted to know what your thoughts are on the following statement:

              "Jerry, you don't have to explain things to me because I'm a woman, and the fact that you're assuming that I'm the one who doesn't know how a car works but Pete does based on our genders is sexist and rude."

              [–]Iswallowedafly15∆ [スコア非表示]  (55子コメント)

              Howis saying the word manplaning, which is a term used to describe a particular action, a slur.

              The idea to be examine is when men explain things to women in a manner that forgets that often women understand what the guy is talking about.

              It isn't a slur.

              it is a description of a behavior.

              Manplaning doesn't mean that every single man does it, but just that it is something that men do.

              [–]PlatonSkull [スコア非表示]  (26子コメント)

              Why do you consider "mansplaining" a slur?

              A slur as you are using it means a term used to demean or degrade a certain group of people. "Mansplaining" isn't about how men are. It's about a way some (but too many) men act towards women.

              Are you offended by the term? Why? You never condescendingly explain something to a woman in a way you wouldn't a man, do you?

              [–]dfin3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              It's not a slur though. It's a description of the action, not a description of the person.

              [–]SpaceOdysseus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

              Mansplaining isn't a slur. I'm concerned you're using the word slur as an excuse to discredit all arguments.

              [–]messehair [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I believe there's a mix up in terms of the semantic meaning of sexist. In raw semantic meaning sexist refers to discrimination based on sex; however, in gender theory sexist refers to participating in societal level sex based inequality through word/deed/action. The academic definition of sexist/sexism has become more common in greater society as it better reflects the current reality of inequality. You're using the first meaning which is technically correct in the same way that a white individual calling a person of color racist can be technically correct; however, once you involve greater society

              It shames all men when some men condescend to women

              You're in the territory of the second semantic meaning. Additionally using the first meaning is akin to saying "bundle up those sticks and twigs into a faggot." Its ignorant to other meanings of the word and when participating is society people can and will call you out on that oversight.

              To this particular aspect of your argument: A man condescending to a woman because she is a woman is sexist because that man is participating in societal inequality. A woman responding with a gender slur (which is not directed at a member of a marginalize social group) is not sexist. The argument could be made that she is discriminatory or prejudice but not sexist because that word has come to mean more than the sum of its roots.

              I'm not arguing that the use of the word "mansplaining" isn't rude, at-times lazy, and counterproductive. It's an insult and all insults are just that. It is empowering because it is a tool to fight back with and as a marginalized group in society woman do not have as many tools with which to fight social battles.

              In the example you gave here "mansplaining" provides a cutting insult that criticizes the condescension, the power dynamics, and functions like a slap to the face. When the guy (who remember began this whole debacle with condescension) sputters and has lost this social spar that's one reversal of many unequal social situations in this woman's day. There is no "mansplaining" to lash back at your boss's boss grabbing your ass. In everyday life it's a small win to reverse one situation amongst many. In discourse and rhetoric, ie speech designed to find solutions and sway opinions I do not think any insults have a productive place (outside of short-term populism which... ew)

              tl;dr In 2016, it is not sexist. It is rude; however, rudeness has a place in defending yourself.

              [–]k9centipede5∆ [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

              Just because it refers to gender doesn't make it sexist or a slur.

              Is the term "black on black crime" racist? If someone coined a short hand word for that term, would that make it racist?

              [–]jthill2∆ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              The retort describes actual, not presumed, behavior. If I patronizingly explain a perfectly obvious fact to someone who perfectly obviously actually doesn't get it, I'm not presuming that person is stupid, they're actually stupid.

              [–]OpinionOfDoom [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

              One of the main issues I have seen in arguments against using the word mansplaning is the apparent lack of empathy to woman and the confidence in one's argument that borders on the autistic. I think we may in fact be running into the situation were thin skinned men, that lack confidence and social skills are the most likely to take a stance on trivial words that make them sad.

              So I guess the misogynists don't like being called on it?

              [–]archiesteel [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              I'm a man and I don't consider "mansplaining" a sexist slur. It describes a very real issue which is perpetrated by men. The fact that not all men do it (even though many do it without even realizing it, or without a conscious desire to be condescending) is irrelevant, as it is still something that men do, not women.

              [–]mygawd [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

              If a woman is really rude to me and I call her a bitch is that sexist of me because I used a gendered slur instead of a neutral one? I would say no and therefore other terms that are gendered but only are meant to apply to the person who is receiving that label (dick, cunt, feminazi, mansplain) are not inherently sexist.

              [–]Zephs2∆ [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

              Okay... and don't women do the exact same thing when it comes to things that are considered female-dominated, like child-rearing or housekeeping? Ask any dad how often they've had a woman talk to them as if they have no idea what to do with their own kid, and obviously they need their (the woman's) advice.

              I don't really think it's a gendered thing. Some people are just condescending. It just happens that certain activities are done more by one gender or another, so those are the ones where it becomes more likely that one condescends to the other.

              [–]eDgEIN708 [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

              I don't really think it's a gendered thing. Some people are just condescending.

              There's already a word for that. It's "condescending". Why make a specifically gendered term for it, except to also give it a meaning that is itself condescending to men in general?

              [–]undercoverbrutha [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

              I tried to use that same exact argument once and was told "quit trying to stir the pot you're just trolling".... it's a legitimate point, why do they feel the need to use a made up gender specific word to describe someone's actions?

              [–]eDgEIN708 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

              Because they're sexist.

              [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

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                [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                Sorry TMac1128, your comment has been removed:

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                  [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  Sorry eDgEIN708, your comment has been removed:

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                  [–]ProdigySim1∆ [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                  By this definition, I hear men "mainsplain" things to other men all the time. I'm sure men are not often ones who use the term in speech, but there's no reason they couldn't with this definition.

                  If you accept that, then the term is no different from any other gender-based term.

                  1. Bitchslap
                  2. Man up
                  3. Be a pussy
                  4. Slut shame (maybe?)

                  etc.

                  Are these terms necessarily sexist because they refer to gender stereotyped behavior/traits in some way? I make no argument either way, but it could be an argument.

                  [–]PistilP [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                  This is the best argument that I've heard on the subject. After thinking about the other gender-based terms that are common vernacular, I think that this one is just new and will eventually settle into its own niche in our language.

                  [–]softnmushy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                  It's not hypocritical or sexist. But I agree it is not helpful.

                  It is identifying a common problem: Condescending statements/explanations by men when they actually have no more knowledge than the women they are talking to. It is also particularly relevant when men tell women how they should feel about sexism and relations between the sexes. There is nothing hypocritical or sexist about this.

                  That said, I agree it is not a helpful term. "Condescending" or "patronizing" would be just as appropriate. And they would remove the accusatory component and clarify what is actually being criticized.

                  Generally, I think we have reached the point of diminishing returns with a lot of the current discourse on racism and sexism. We're still fighting over fundamental issues like open racism and normalizing sexual assault (Trump and many of his followers). It doesn't do much good to guilt people for being born into a majority or elite class. Let's focus on basic tolerance and get back to vilifying open bigotry.

                  [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (186子コメント)

                  "self-defeating" is different than "hypocritical". Self-defeating is a critique of practical consequences, hypocritical is an evaluation of consistency. For instance, if a person subscribes to the privilege + power definition of sexism, then using the term "mansplain" is not sexist in their minds, because it is not considered to come from the powerful. Therefore it is not hypocritical because it is internally consistent and the person never claims to have a standard that they don't follow.

                  Imagine the social outrage if someone coined and freely used one of the following terms: womansplain, whitesplain, blacksplain, hispanisplain, etc. Insert anything you like before ‘splain’ and reveal the idiocy and hypocrisy in using such an asinine term.

                  This doesn't do as advertised, because it doesn't account for context. The term mansplain describes a very specific type of condescension that is driven by implicit biases. The woman and article that (to my knowledge) first acknowledged the affect was describing a situation where a man was explaining how there was this new book in her field that she really should read if she wanted to be knowledgable about the subject, how it was so ground breaking and had all these interesting ideas in an attempt to woo her. Problem is, she wrote the book! The man assumed that she didn't know what he was talking about, explained her field and ideas to her as if she didn't know, in an attempt to impress her. This is a specific condescension that happens within the gender dynamic: Men are expected to be experts, women are expected to listen to men.

                  The reason your analogy doesn't work is that the dynamics they present don't appear useful (except maybe whitesplain). Who and on what topics is a woman 'splaining about? The reason there would be outrage is because those terms don't make any sense, and it also distracts from legitimate criticism.

                  My point is that denigrating half of the population with a sexist term helps no one and moves us no closer to the equality that we all hope to achieve one day.

                  Why is pointing out that one man is engaging in negative gendered behaviour an insult to all men? Do you think calling someone a white supremacist is an insult to all white people?

                  What doesn't get us to equality is people not listening or not taking seriously the concerns brought up by women.

                  [–]gunnervi6∆ [スコア非表示]  (30子コメント)

                  Who and on what topics is a woman 'splaining about?

                  Childcare, to men. There is definitely stereotype that men are incompetent parents, and I'd definitely say that a woman explaining to a man the best way to parent their child, in the absence of any real indication that the man is am incompetent parent, 'splaining.

                  Of course, this isn't nearly as frequent, pervasive, nor as broad in scope as mansplaining.

                  [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (24子コメント)

                  Of course, this isn't nearly as frequent, pervasive, nor as broad in scope as mansplaining.

                  That would be the point I would make. I would also say that the purview of what women 'splain to men deals with traditionally subservient roles.

                  [–]crustalmighty1∆ [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                  I've been explained how to be a man in various ways more times than I'd like to count by women.

                  [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

                  Your anecdote is not very compelling.

                  [–]crustalmighty1∆ [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

                  I would also say that the purview of what women 'splain to men deals with traditionally subservient roles.

                  I guess it joins this assertion in that camp.

                  Edit: isn't the notion of mansplaining itself based on anecdotal perception of being condescended to?

                  [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                  Yeah except I can back this up with more than "my feelings were hurt one time". Your story is not equal to this.

                  [–]crustalmighty1∆ [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                  But my feelings weren't hurt.

                  [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

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                    [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                    Sorry Mitoza, your comment has been removed:

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                    [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (77子コメント)

                    "self-defeating" is different than "hypocritical".

                    The use of a slur like 'mansplaining' is certainly both. Using bigotry to point out bigotry is absolutely hypocritical.

                    For instance, if a person subscribes to the privilege + power definition of sexism, then using the term "mansplain" is not sexist in their minds.

                    Justifying a slur with irrational thinking doesn't make it any less a slur.

                    The term mansplain describes a very specific type of condescension that is driven by implicit biases.

                    Having a very specific scenario in mind doesn't justify a slur. If someone claimed that they only use 'black-buying' to describe a specific kind of theft, that wouldn't make them any less of a bigot.

                    Why is pointing out that one man is engaging in negative gendered behaviour an insult to all men?

                    This doesn't make any sense. 'Mansplaining' doesn't describe the behavior of an individual, it associates negative behavior with the entire class to which men belong.

                    Do you think calling someone a white supremacist is an insult to all white people?

                    Not at all. Likewise, calling someone a black supremacist doesn't associate any negative with all black people. You are simply describing an individual and that person's negative actions without bringing all black people into it.

                    What doesn't get us to equality is people not listening or not taking seriously the concerns brought up by women.

                    Women having concerns doesn't justify the use of bigoted slurs to express them.

                    [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (53子コメント)

                    The use of a slur like 'mansplaining' is certainly both. Using bigotry to point out bigotry is absolutely hypocritical.

                    You don't understand the first paragraph if this is what you've come away with. Read the definition of hypocritical:

                    the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

                    and then take a second crack at that paragraph.

                    You could have consolidated most of your post to "mansplain is a slur, and none of what you wrote justifies it" instead of quoting each line. You have one argument, make a concise paragraph explaining it.

                    Mansplain is not a slur unless it's used as one. For instance, I'm not using it as a slur when I discuss that there is a gendered issue of men explaining things to women and use the word "mansplain" to describe it. I am not attempting to shame or disparage anyone. The only way it becomes a slur is if it's used in that way towards a person. But you've written this:

                    'Mansplaining' doesn't describe the behavior of an individual

                    (Which doesn't make sense, if I call someone out for mansplaining I'm talking about the behavior of one individual). If that's the case, then it necessarily isn't a slur unless you can tell me that my intent in finding it a useful term to describe a phenomenon is to disparage all men at once. If that's the case, I'm assuming you also think feminism and social justice topics are all necessarily anti-male as well. If that's the case, I don't expect to have a nuanced conversation with you about this topic.

                    [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (52子コメント)

                    For instance, I'm not using it as a slur when I discuss that there is a gendered issue of men explaining things to women and use the word "mansplain" to describe it.

                    Again, having a specific scenario in mind doesn't make the use of a slur any less bigoted. If I were to say "For instance, I'm not using 'black-buying' as a slur when I discuss that there is a racial issue of black people stealing things and using the term 'black-buying' to describe it. I am not attempting to shame or disparage anyone."

                    (Which doesn't make sense, if I call someone out for mansplaining I'm talking about the behavior of one individual).

                    But you are using a term that disparages an entire class to criticize the behavior of the individual. That is what makes it a bigoted slur.

                    [–]Mitoza14∆ [スコア非表示]  (49子コメント)

                    Again, having a specific scenario in mind doesn't make the use of a slur any less bigoted.

                    You haven't established that it's a slur yet, you just keep claiming it is. The difference between it and "black buying" (I've never heard this term, did you make it up? google doesn't return anything either) is that it seems to be a term expressly for disparagement. There is no reason to not call the trend you're trying to describe "black theft rates" without including the disparaging "joke". Mansplaining is different because it was coined to describe a specific kind of disparagement that only happens on the gendered axis. There is nothing negative about the word itself. (And again, it never makes the claim that all men do this)

                    But you are using a term that disparages an entire class to criticize the behavior of the individual.

                    I reject that it necessarily disparages all men. Can you back this assertion up?

                    [–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

                    [removed]

                      [–]bubi0920∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      Sorry x0y0z0, your comment has been removed:

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                      [–]frownifdown [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                      I know I am late to the party here but I just wanted to offer my thoughts. I absolutely hate the term mansplaining. Not because I think it never happens, but because it is so inappropriately used that the original term has no meaning whatsoever and even when it does happen, it usually has nothing to do with sex.

                      Obviously there are plenty of examples of men talking condescendingly to women about things that they believe themselves to be experts on or at least well-versed. I have also seen plenty of examples of women talking condescendingly to men. I have ALSO seen countless of examples of men talking to men that way and women to women. It's almost as if it has more to do with the person than their sex.

                      The main reason I can't stand this word is that it is used in just normal conversation. I have been in plenty of conversations with women (twitter, facebook, face-to-face, etc.) where they will just throw out the accusation of "mansplaining" because I'm correcting them on something or trying to elaborate on my point. It's like I can't even have a real argument or discussion without them resorting to just saying mansplaining. So can I call it vagsplaining when they correct me? It's a term that is used to end conversation because you don't like being wrong. It's the most unhelpful term that third-wave feminism has come up with.

                      [–]zgarbas [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                      Just because mansplaining is a thing does not mean that it applies to everytime a man talks. It simply refers to the times when one is talked down to regardless of their actual position or experience, which is a phenomenon that is mostly felt by women when talked down by men.

                      I agree that mansplaining is not the best word for it, but there are few women who cannot empathise with the experience, whereas men tend to only understand it in terms of other power relations (like when talking to their bosses, teachers, or superiours), which would imply that this to be an issue related to inherent patriarchal values in our society. The thing about patriarchy is that when we discuss it these days, we do not refer to the minority of men who outright promote patriarchal values, but to the structural patriarchal values which affect everyone -man or woman- by inserting itself into ideological common sense.

                      Not everyone who mansplains does it consciously, and many times they are people who would -if asked- support equal rights; it is simply a reflection of the subconscious belief that men tend to know better.

                      While I don't fully agree with it, I think that the point of making it clear that the persons perpetuating a certain toxic behaviour are men (often cis and white) is to introduce the gender/ethnicity if the power play. It is common to mention gender or ethnicity in the case of women or ethnic minorities, but cis white men are presumed to be simply 'normal'. This limits the focus of discussion since they don't include both parties; see how people assume that feminism/sexism is only about women, racism is only about black people, sexual rights are only about homosexuals, etc. (Though they deal with everyone, and when we talk about changing the way society works in the West we are actually talking about changing the way cis white men control it). It is easy to say 'i agree that group should have equal rights' when the people deciding those rights is an abstract concept (the world, society, the workplace), whereas a term like mansplaining forces the listener to identify as an individual within that group, at which point they are more likely to consider their action (in theory; in practice, backlash is a huge issue)

                      (Btw, womansplaining is used as a derogatory way to refer to feminism; there's no outrage over that. Compared to the other things feminists are called on a regular basis it's pretty tame ).

                      [–]DrinkyDrank5∆ [スコア非表示]  (78子コメント)

                      I think "mansplaining" is a slang term that while not entirely well-defined, does refer to a distinct phenomenon where a man starts to launch into half-assed explanations on a subject that he really knows very little about, just because he subconsciously feels like the woman he is talking to is going to be somehow edified. My wife works in a technical / STEM field where this sort of thing happens all the time to her.

                      My point is that it is a distinct thing that happens often enough that women made a slang word for it. You can argue that it isn't universal, you can argue that the term is susceptible to abuse, and you can argue that it shouldn't be tolerated. But what you can't really argue with is that it isn't based on something distinct that women experience; otherwise, how would the term come to exist in the first place?

                      [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (63子コメント)

                      But what you can't really argue with is that it isn't based on something distinct that women experience; otherwise, how would the term come to exist in the first place?

                      You could say the exact same thing about the use of the 'black-buying' slur to describe theft.

                      [–]hereforthemoney [スコア非表示]  (58子コメント)

                      Yeah, but historically speaking 'black people' and 'all men ever' aren't really in the same category (let alone league) when it comes to oppressed minorities. It's all about which direction you're punching in.

                      [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (55子コメント)

                      It's all about which direction you're punching in.

                      Ah, yes; the idea of punching up. In other words: "It's ok for me to indulge in bigotry because I perceive myself to be a victim". Right?

                      [–]hereforthemoney [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

                      Well, to put it quite frankly, but yes (although it's not bigotry, but self-defense). If a gay kid was getting beaten by a group of Christians for 'going against god', you wouldn't cuss the kid out for decrying them and their faith during said beating, going 'Oh I was going to help you, but now I see you're just as narrow minded as they are'?

                      [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (19子コメント)

                      I wouldn't castigate the kid, but I would know that he was indulging in bigotry. Two wrongs don't make a right. Likewise, if that kid set the bully's house on fire and killed his whole family, it would still be arson and murder (as much as I disagree with the people being murdered).

                      [–]hereforthemoney [スコア非表示]  (18子コメント)

                      You're allowed to call out corruption wherever you (feel you) see it is what I'm saying. That kid was going about minding their own business, and then was beaten because someone else thought, in very black and white terms, that their Christian faith allowed them to do so. Everyone has a right to self-defense and to call out injustice where they see it.

                      Certain feminists, whether you agree with them or not, feel that a patriarchal society has fed men the idea that talking down to women is acceptable. Due to this they have called men out for it. Regardless of whether you feel this to be true, do you really feel that they shouldn't be allowed to have their say in the face of a perceived oppression? How are we supposed to call out any societal injustices, or do we just maintain the status-quo?

                      Plus I never said about burning the bullies house down. That's just revenge, which is something completely different.

                      [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

                      You're allowed to call out corruption wherever you (feel you) see it is what I'm saying.

                      However if you use bigoted terms in doing so, you are no less guilty of bigotry.

                      That kid was going about minding their own business, and then was beaten because someone else thought, in very black and white terms, that their Christian faith allowed them to do so. Everyone has a right to self-defense and to call out injustice where they see it.

                      None of this negates bigotry on behalf of the person who is calling them out (if they are using bigotry).

                      Certain feminists, whether you agree with them or not, feel that a patriarchal society has fed men the idea that talking down to women is acceptable. Due to this they have called men out for it. Due to this they have called men out for it.

                      This doesn't mean that any bigotry they may use isn't bigotry.

                      Regardless of whether you feel this to be true, do you really feel that they shouldn't be allowed to have their say in the face of a perceived oppression?

                      I don't know how you could get that out of anything I said. The point is that they are perfectly allowed to have their say, but if they use bigotry in the process then they are just as guilty of bigotry as anyone else.

                      How are we supposed to call out any societal injustices, or do we just maintain the status-quo?

                      Just do so in such a way that doesn't disparage a whole class of people. Bigotry is bigotry no matter how victimized the bigot may feel.

                      Plus I never said about burning the bullies house down. That's just revenge, which is something completely different.

                      Uh, I was making the point that being a victim doesn't mean that you can't victimize others.

                      [–][削除されました]  (2子コメント)

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                        [–]etquod39∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        Sorry LOTO-12, your comment has been removed:

                        Comment Rule 5. "No low effort comments. Comments that are only jokes, links, or 'written upvotes', for example. Humor, links, and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments." See the wiki page for more information.

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                        [–]PlatonSkull [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

                        It shames all men when some men condescend to women

                        I disagree. It's a slang term for a certain, not uncommon type of behavior in which a guy, knowingly or otherwise, talks down to a woman or acts smarter/superior because of an ingrained sense of superiority.

                        Mansplain doesn't "shame all men." That would indicate that it refers to all men. It doesn't it refers to a specific situation.

                        transforms an undesirable trait than anyone could possess into a gender-related issue all under the guise of combatting sexism

                        Mansplaining, again, isn't a slur that indicates all men are condescending. It sprang up from a particular, gender-related issue that's hard to see until you call it out. It was always about sexism. Either you're misunderstanding it, or you have heard it used wrong. I'd like to hear more about that.

                        Imagine the social outrage if someone coined and freely used one of the following terms: womansplain, whitesplain, blacksplain ...

                        Again, someone didn't make it up to hurt men. Just like the term "racist" wasn't made up to hurt white people (not as extreme, but same principle).

                        Calling people out for behaving with sexist undertones is not the same as insulting their gender.

                        Listen, I understand that there are still far too many men (still within the vast minority of men) who still view the world through a patriarchal lens and regularly talk down to women, and this is completely antiquated, wrong, and will eventually die out in hopefully a few generations.

                        You should be very careful with that thinking. I believe that you aren't sexist, or at least try not to be. Lord knows, a lot of good guys feel the same way. But seeing sexism as something only active misogynists do is dangerous, because sexism is much more pervasive than an antiquated lens with which to view the world.

                        I try to be mindful of these things, and listen to women when they say something is sexist.

                        Denigrating half of the population with a sexist term helps no one and moves us no closer to the equality that we all hope to achieve one day.

                        You're right. But "mansplaining" isn't sexism. It's calling out sexism. A subtle type that we as men rarely notice. Hell, I wouldn't even be aware that it happened if it wasn't for the term. Because of that, I am careful not to catch myself doing it.

                        You clearly have the best intentions in mind, and want to support women and equality, but let me ask you something:

                        Why are you afraid that feminism will be used to degrade and demean men?

                        [–]Kants_Pupil1∆ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                        What this whole thing comes down to is really using the power of strange words to undermine norms which allowed bad behavior. The term mansplain appears to have been born in 2008 about a month after an op-ed titled Men who explain things, which begins with a personal accounting of a story in which she, an author of a recently published book, gets dragged into a conversation about the topic of her book and the man talking to her takes way too long to hear that his lecture on a book of the same topic is actually about her book. She also describes being reprimanded at a dinner for talking about Women Who Strike for Peace and their role in taking down the House Committee on Un-American Activities, the man explaining to her that the committee didn't exist at the time she said it did, and even if it did, the women activists certainly couldn't have had any role in its downfall. Turns out, she wrote a book on the events relying on historical documents and interviews with individuals involved. It describes a phenomenon that is pervasive in our culture where too often men assume the incompetence of women and condescend to them without regard to the woman's intelligence, experience or any other indicator of her competence with regard to the subject at hand.

                        When mansplain was coined, it called attention to the fact that so many women had frequently experienced the problem for their entire lives. It reflects that there is a common abuse which has a very consistent pattern of men undermining the credibility of women through condescension and correction. The reason that it caught on and has lasted at least this long is because women still experience the phenomenon, and many identify it as a constant struggle in their lives.

                        To the point of hypocrisy, I don't see the word itself being hypocritical; it is simply a term describing a common phenomenon. The closest I can come to sympathizing with the idea it is hypocritical is to acknowledge that it is sometimes over- or misused, and that often people who do misuse it are overzealous in defending their use of it. That sort of thing happens all the time during interactions where power is involved, but calling wolf on racism, sexism, ageism, and all of the other -isms isn't a sign that those things don't exist, it just means that sometimes individuals are wrong.

                        Lastly, to sexism, I think that the feeling that the term mansplaining exists implies that users of the term feel all men do this is an overreaction. Simply, the term was born to describe the too common experience women have of being condescended to by men simply because they are women.

                        As an aside, whitesplaining is a thing, and to lesser extents, the other -splaining that you talk about is too. The reason that whitesplaining or manslplaining has any meaning, though, is that it reflects the power that whites and men have over other groups in social interactions; we have strong cultural legacies of men, and particularly white men, having more property, more influence, and being afforded more rights than other people and it is clear throughout history that these advantages carried over into conversation and other social interactions. These -splaining terms just give a succinct way to call out behaviors which still undermine the authority, credibility, and standing of groups when race and gender are factors in the interactions.

                        [–]LefthandedLunatic [スコア非表示]  (60子コメント)

                        Okay few things first. This isn't a very serious issue and most western feminists will not put this as a number one priority. Mansplaining is more of an annoyance then a serious issue although it more of a symptom of a social issue then a issue by itself.

                        Basilcy how it works is that man will try to explain to you how to do things or how it works even though the woman is more qualified due to sexist reasons. There are plenty of examples out there of men trying to teach women how something works even though she knows what she is doing on the internet.

                        As I stated its not really an independent issue but a symptom of a socialital bias against women that still exists. You can see it as a residue of a more mysognisitc era that still lingers around. Like how people pretty much ignore women sports and every level and how women often have to prove their fandoms to guy by answering random questions and if you get one wrong you are not a "true fan" or being called an attention whore and what free stuff just because you are into a male dominated game or hobby. Its a issue of the fact that some people don't take women seriously subcontiously or not.

                        Again its not the most serious issue but its still worth trying to fix. Now the reason why its call mansplaining is for convenience. It happens enough for some people that saying "a male condescending asshole" is tiring to say on repeat and like everything else on the internet got shorten into one word.

                        So in the end mansplaining isn't sexist and hypocritical because its not a label use to the majority of men, just mostly used as a quick term when a woman met a usually minor form of sexism and need to explain it in one word. When Mansplaining is used its not for the entire male gender as a whole or saying that all male opinons are invalid due to your sex. Instead is just women frustrated being talked down to even though they are clearly more qualified.

                        Sure you find it missused but understanding women issues base upon whatever you find on tumblr is like trying to understand the Republican party through /pol/.

                        [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (71子コメント)

                        It shames all men when some men condescend to women and transforms an undesirable trait than anyone could possess into a gender-related issue all under the guise of combatting sexism thus defeating its own purpose.

                        It does no such thing. It refers to a specific set of circumstances: when a man condescends to a woman on a topic, despite that woman clearly being at least equal in knowledge on the topic to her. It's not a blanket term to refer to any man explaining something to a woman.

                        Like /u/LefthandedLunatic pointed out, it's more of a symptom of the systemic sexism that feminists will argue against, rather than a specific issue itself that is being opposed.

                        [–]MMAchica [スコア非表示]  (43子コメント)

                        It refers to a specific set of circumstances: when a man condescends to a woman on a topic, despite that woman clearly being at least equal in knowledge on the topic to her.

                        Having a specific set of circumstances in mind when you use a slur doesn't make it any less bigoted. Someone could say that they only use 'black-buying' to describe theft perpetrated by African Americans, but that doesn't make it any less a slur. Condescending explanation is a universal negative and any term that attempts to associate it with men is also a bigoted slur.

                        [–]waldrop021∆ [スコア非表示]  (42子コメント)

                        Condescending towards women because they're women is far from a universal negative. It is perpetrated significantly more by men than women, and that's why the word was created.

                        You're also ignoring the difference in power dynamic in your example. Men and white people are the beneficiaries of societal norms; a term highlighting sexism performed by the majority is hardly the same as another pejorative for the minority.

                        [–]Celda15∆ [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                        You're also ignoring the difference in power dynamic in your example. Men and white people are the beneficiaries of societal norms; a term highlighting sexism performed by the majority is hardly the same as another pejorative for the minority.

                        Your only justification is that "it's ok to be sexist towards men, because women are the minority".

                        That is quite a weak argument. Especially when considering that in many ways, women are more privileged than men.

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                          [–]garnteller184∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                          Sorry Esemjayes, your comment has been removed:

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                            [–]bubi0920∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                            Sorry SunRaSquarePants, your comment has been removed:

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                            [–]yyzjertl10∆ [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

                            How is this term hypocritical? Merriam-Webster's simple definition of hypocrisy is

                            the behavior of people who do things that they tell other people not to do : behavior that does not agree with what someone claims to believe or feel

                            Do you think people who use the word "mansplaining" are engaged in behavior that they claim to be against (if so, what is this behavior)? Or do you think the word itself is engaged in behavior (metaphorically) that is counter to its own purported meaning?

                            [–]Ardwinna [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

                            Mansplaining doesn't refer to all men. It refers to the guys who, for example, explain cars to the female mechanic. He expects to be superior in one subject because he's male, and treats the woman like an idiot because she's a woman, regardless of how much knowledge she has on the subject.

                            If a woman treated a man the same way with makeup, or child rearing, or whatever other stereotypically female thing... It could be womansplaining. My dad raised me alone and I'm sure he had to deal with a lot of that from his female friends.

                            I'm a woman who's worked in male-dominated fields since I was 18, and I've had to deal with a ton of mansplaining. Even when I worked as a sort of technician for demo game consoles, I'd have random guys come up and try to tell me where vents were... As if it wasn't my job to know all about that stuff.

                            Knowing this, I don't assume all men are going to mansplain. This isn't a slur against men. It's a description of an action that some men take. It's just a shortened version of "this man is trying to explain something to me because he assumes I don't understand it due to my sex." That sentence isn't sexist, but his actions are.

                            [–]define_cat [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                            Let's drop the sex/race examples for a while and let me construct one scenario where I think most of us can relate to in some way: money privilege.

                            So say you're born rich and sheltered. You know you're not an asshole and you're not one of the people perpetuating class differences. You're a nice guy, and you're friends with Greg. Greg is poor and has always been. So one day during lunch you tell him... "You know Greg, I've been thinking about your situation, and I wanted to give you some advice. Why don't you call your parents and ask them for a loan? They could lend you $10.000 and you can start your own business in no time like I did. I have a degree in economy and I could help you with that"

                            Greg gasps and starts explaining that his parents don't have that kind of money. Is he poorsplaining you? Or are you richsplaining him?

                            So let's say that poor people make the term richsplaining popular. You hear of it and gasp, how dare they make up such classisist term, it's not your fault you're rich. In fact, many people who are rich and have never even try to richsplain anything get offended as well. Not all of us rich people are sheltered, even some of us come from poor! So you counter with the term poorsplain. Just like All lives matter, straight pride and womansplain. Now the world is a fair place again. Those hypocrites.

                            [–]MrMercurial3∆[🍰] [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

                            an undesirable trait than anyone could possess

                            My understanding of the concept is that it doesn't refer to being condescending in general, but rather to being condescending for particular reasons, specifically that the person you're talking to is female, and you assume she knows less about the topic than you because she is female and you are male.

                            It seems to me that that's a type of condescension that can only apply to men talking to women.

                            [–]atticdoor [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                            You might be interested in this exchange between Australian politicians where an alleged 'mansplainer' makes many of the points you are making. While it is true the male politician has a slightly patronising tone at the beginning, throwing in a gender-loaded term really comes across as unhelpful when they weren't talking about a gender issue. She effectively has to explain what mansplaining is, crucially undermining her own point.

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                            [–]CheshireFur [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                            Sure it's sexist. I thought that that was kind of the point: to help men understand what sexism feels like. It's supposed to be used when a man already made the mistake of explaining in a sexist way: "Daniël, you're 'mansplaining'. Sarah knows how a television works. She has one." I believe it was not intended to hurt anyone else, though it may by accident or improper use, and it reaches hypocrisy when the person saying it is somehow convinced that they themselves are not saying something sexist.

                            About the explaining being a trait that anyone could possess: I am not sure. Our society has a stereotypical image of women as non-technical people. If you are a woman yourself, you will either know that that is bullocks and not act upon it, or you may actually believe it and leave the explaining to a 'technical person'.

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                              [–]FlyingFoxOfTheYard_19∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              Sorry jozef_telefonmast, your comment has been removed:

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                              [–]beer_demon10∆ [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

                              Mansplain does not criticize a gender or an action, but an attitude.
                              As a male I don't feel in the least touched by the term, unless I am being called it accurately.

                              [–]Chronoblivion1∆ [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                              Part of the issue is that there's no universal definition of "mansplain," at least not in common usage. On one end of the spectrum, you have what I'm told is the original meaning, which is when a man explains something, possibly in a condescending way, due to the assumption that the woman wouldn't know or understand it due to being a woman. The classic example of this is the mechanic who uses simplistic metaphors to describe what's wrong with a woman's car, because she's a woman and therefore obviously doesn't know cars. While not the lurking-around-the-corner boogeyman some would have you believe, this is a thing that can and does still happen from time to time. On the other end of the spectrum you have people who use mansplaining to mean any situation in which a man disagrees with a woman, because obviously the only reason he would disagree with her is because she's female; it can't possibly have anything to do with the fact that she said something demonstrably false. There are plenty of definitions, including the one you posted, that fall in the gray area somewhere between the two extremes, and this is what tends to muddy the discussion.

                              Some people do use the word in an openly bigoted or misandrist way. Some use it to say "stop assuming I don't know what I'm talking about/devaluing my experiences because of my gender." As with most things, context matters. And while the word has a gendered origin and connotation, I don't think that's such a big deal. So does the word 'hysterical,' but only a select few choose to complain about that. Again, it's not the word itself that matters, but how it's used.

                              [–]depricatedzero [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                              Here's the thing; it's not mansplaining to explain something. I'm not mansplaining by explaining this to you. Mansplaining is when you condescend and assume a lack of knowledge due to the person you're explaining to being female. Typically it's regarding an area of knowledge seen as masculine - cars, wrestling, sports, etc.

                              It happens in reverse very often as well, but isn't nearly as problematic - and most men have no qualms with being ignorant of "womanly" things. I frequently ask my female friends for their knowledge of things like makeup and shopping.

                              That said, it doesn't happen with the vehemence that most men put into mansplaining.

                              It's a very specific type of explanation and condescension, that conveys numerous assumptions based purely on the sex of the addressee.

                              [–]punriffer5 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                              Think of the term "Mansplaining" like a verb for being racist, or any ist. Saying someone is mansplaining is not a critique on men so much as calling out a man that is talking down to a woman. It is not sexist or hypocritical, it is a verb.

                              The action itself occurs frequently enough that it needs a term, that's not sexist, that's just a reality. It is the most concise way of explaining a situation.

                              Instead of "The contractor was speaking in overly simple terms with the implication that I was ignorant on the matter because I was a woman", you can say, "He was mansplaining it to me".

                              That man in particular is being accused of sexism, but you a 3rd party male are not. I don't see how it speaks ill of you in any way.

                              [–]Deezl-Vegas3∆ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                              This is often a gender-oriented issue though, so it makes sense to point that out to help combat it. The problem is that a selection of men look down on women or are trying too hard to impress them. One of the ways it manifests is that men talk to women as if they're more knowledgable about certain subjects than they are. Mansplaining seem to be an appropriate term to help combat the issue. Nobody is saying that all men do it or that it's somehow a defect of men in general, it's just an available term to point out something that women find annoying.

                              womansplain, whitesplain, blacksplain, hispanisplain, etc.

                              I would at least change hispanisplain to Mexplain. I mean, come on. Anyway, this doesn't hold up because men and women have a different dynamic.

                              this is completely antiquated, wrong, and will eventually die out in hopefully a few generations

                              Not if nobody points it out.

                              Anyway, I don't think "mansplaining" is that bad of a term. It has some assumptions that are often unwarranted built in, but it's not a sexist term because it actually happens as part of a common man-woman dynamic.

                              [–]Traveledfarwestward [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                              The term while sexist and annoying isn't really all that different from the term "nagging" which is also usually used in a gender specific way.

                              So things are kind of okay, we're all mean. Ok, both sexes are.

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                                [–]etquod39∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                Sorry DrippyWaffler, your comment has been removed:

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                                [–]stormysailing [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                Okay. This is nit-picky. But 'sexism' actually has a specific definition that automatically exempts "mansplaining" from qualifying as sexist. Sexism, like other similar 'isms', is a type of oppression. For something to oppressive rather than discriminatory, the person discriminating needs to be in a position of systemic power. You can read more about the staircase of oppression at The Good Men Project here.

                                Now, a quick Wikipedia search will tell you that sexism is just discrimination based on gender. That's actually wrong. "Oppression = power + discrimination" is very well established among gender theory, race theory and sociological fields. This is another case of a popular misconception about science; just like how different parts of your tongue taste different flavours (false), how you can see the Great Wall of China from space (false).

                                You can't be sexist against men, because they're the dominant gender. You can't be racist against white people, because they're the dominant race. You can absolutely stereotype and discriminate against men or white people, but it's never oppression because you don't have systemic power over those social locations. In our current world, no one has the power to systemically deny opportunities to men or white people, because the system is built to empower them. (see: wage gap by race and gender; unemployment rates of trans people (this would be cissexism); various other facts for anyone who doesn't agree that men have advantages in society.)

                                Therefore, discrimination against men is necessarily not sexism. So the question remains, is "mansplaining" discrimination?

                                I understand how the term could feel offensive. After all, how do you explain something to someone who legitimately doesn't understand? It's disappointing when a feminist uses 'mansplaining' in a situation where it doesn't apply. But 'mansplaining' can have a real, positive use to convey the situation when a man automatically believes he knows more about the subject than a woman does, due to inherent biases. This happens all the fucking time, unfortunately. And it has real implications: if men are automatically assumed to be more knowledgeable, then women are more easily discredited, men take credit for women's successes, men get promotions instead, etc etc etc.

                                Mansplaining is a symptom of a larger structure of inequality where men have authority and women do not. The term 'mansplaining' should be used to call out men (gently) when they are unconsciously participating in a patriarchal system. That antiquated, wrong world that you hope will die out? That world doesn't go away until we all consciously change our behaviour so that we're not supporting antiquated beliefs.

                                As an aside -- 'whitesplaining' is already a thing, and it's very useful. Again, 'whitesplaining' can exist because white people are in power in society - 'blacksplaining' would not make sense. I'm a white, cis woman who honestly has more privilege than not. (Racism is objectively more damaging than sexism in North America). I believe it's my responsibility to acknowledge those times that I am accidentally 'whitesplaining' so that I can check my privilege and stop participating in oppression.

                                [–]meltingintoice5∆ [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

                                Earlier this year I was in a hardware store, trying to find the right tools and materials for building a shelf for a special purpose in my house. While I was talking to store clerks, no fewer than three men (other customers) interjected to "help" me understand what I "needed to do". While they were well-meaning, none of their help was useful to me, and seemed to think that the mere fact that I was willing to ask a question of the store staff meant that they were automatically more competent than me to give me unsolicited advice about how to do the project.

                                I described this experience as having been "mansplained" to by the customers.

                                I did not feel this was hypocritical or sexist because... ... I am a dude. Moreover, when I observe other people who seem confused, I will often give them unsolicited advice myself, only later to learn that the person i'm trying to help already knows more than I have to offer.

                                [–]MercuryChaos3∆ [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                "Mansplaining" isn't just "anything that a man explains to a woman". It specifically refers to instances when a man assumes that a woman is ignorant about a particular topic that she's actually knowledgeable about, and "explains" things to her that she already knows.

                                And the thing is, most men who do this aren't the kinds of people who are sexist in the way you're describing. The problem is that most people, even people who believe in gender equality, tend to assume that men are more intelligent and competent than women.

                                [–]KimonoThief [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                So if a black person specifically targeted a store owned by a white person because he dislikes white people, then it's okay to say "black-jacking"?

                                Of course not. Once we start making words like that, we're creating stereotypes. The vast majority of men don't talk down to women just because they're women. The word "mansplaining" paints that behavior on to all men, such that even innocently explaining something to a woman is labeled with "mansplaining" and thus shouldn't be listened to.

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                                  [–]hacksoncode195∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  Sorry meption, your comment has been removed:

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                                  [–]Stevo9267 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                  In this video a man tries to explain to a woman "what women want".

                                  https://youtu.be/-HI4DC18wCg?t=1m12s

                                  "there is nothing more that a woman wants to hear than how pretty she is" he explains to the woman.

                                  Who do you think knows better what she wants? Herself or a guy who wrote a book?

                                  Since this is so common that it appears on tv, doesn't it warrant a word to explain this concept.

                                  [–]windwoker [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  I see the term 'mansplaining', or the way that it has been used against me, as a way to discredit valid information that a woman doesn't view as valid or has actively omitted. I have been told I'm 'mansplaining' for simply adding information. It is a sexist term that is meant to devalue a mans point of view.

                                  It is an assumption that the gender of an individual determines whether or not they are telling the truth.

                                  For example, if someone starts to talk about "pink tax", I will always point out that looking at the ingredients can, and more than likely, will tell you why there is a price difference. If that is not the case, look into whether or not it is special edition; those often cost more.

                                  [–]someguy935 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  I want to chime in in agreement. Too often I see this term being used to push men out of the conversation based solely on their gender. You could have a fine point to make in an argument and be written off as "man splaining". It serves no purpose in helping a healthy dialogue.

                                  The term serves the purpose of excusing sexism against men.

                                  [–]Terakahn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  That's kind of the point of the term isn't it? It's like saying a racial slur is racist. Before the definition was posted I genuinely thought this was about men shaving body hair. I'd never actually heard the term before today.

                                  You say it doesn't move us closer to the equality that we all hope to achieve one day. The people who use this term don't want equality. They want superiority. And they invented a word to articulate that. It's probably a bigger minority than you'd hope there would be in this day and age too. Especially depending where in the world you are.

                                  [–]cabridges [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

                                  The term refers to a specific but pervasive situation where a condescending man explains something to a woman she already knows. It does not refer to all men, it refers to a situation that always involves men.

                                  I've had no problem understanding that distinction.

                                  [–]quietthomas [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

                                  Context and power balance is critical to sexism (and other "PC" isms); ergo mansplaining is not sexist.

                                  • Mansplaining is not simply when a man tries to explain something. It's when a man tries to explain something that is SPECIFICALLY a matter of the female experiences of social inequality and power imbalances in our society.

                                  • Straightsplaining is not simply when a straight person tries to explain something. It's when a straight person tries to explain something that is SPECIFICALLY a matter of the queer experiences of social inequality and power imbalances in our society.

                                  • Whitesplaining is not simply when a white person tries to explain something. It's when a white person tries to explain something that is SPECIFICALLY a matter of the non-white experiences of social inequality and power imbalances in our society.

                                  It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it; speak from your own experiences, and if a problem doesn't effect you directly; then listen to those who it does.

                                  [–]sporite [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                  It is sexist because of the context it was created in, actively used in, and what it means. Any word that is exclusively used as an insult against a gender is sexist.

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                                    [–]FlyingFoxOfTheYard_19∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                    Sorry big_face_killah, your comment has been removed:

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                                      [–]hacksoncode195∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                      Sorry ButtholeSamurai, your comment has been removed:

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                                        Sorry dodekerekt, your comment has been removed:

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                                        [–]CheshireFur [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                        Sure it's sexist. I thought that that was kind of the point: to help men understand what sexism feels like. It's supposed to be used when a man already made the mistake of explaining in a sexist way: "Daniël, you're 'mansplaining'. Sarah knows how a television works. She has one." I believe it was not intended to hurt anyone else, although it may by accident or improper use, and it reaches hypocrisy when the person using the word is somehow convinced that they themselves are not saying something sexist.

                                        About the explaining being a trait that anyone could possess: I am not sure. Our society has a stereotypical image of women as non-technical people. If you are a woman yourself, you will either know that that is bullocks and not act upon it, or you may actually believe it and leave the explaining to a 'technical person'.

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                                          [–]hacksoncode195∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                          Sorry Hoshigumi, your comment has been removed:

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                                            [–]bubi0920∆[M] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            Sorry -RandomPoem-, your comment has been removed:

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                                            [–]thismynewaccountguys [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

                                            If something is a specific manifestation of some big social problem (e.g. tendency of men to condescend to women is a manifestation of sexism) how is it harmful to acknowledge it as such? Lynching of African Americans in the first half of the 20th century was a manifestation of anti-black racism, acknowledging this is not itself racist (even though in theory anyone can be lynched).

                                            [–]kelvinwop [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

                                            'Mansplaining' isn't inherently racist/sexist, as it describes an extreme situation. However, it can easily be used in a racist/sexist way.

                                            [–]k9centipede5∆ [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

                                            Is the term "influenza" classist since it refers to a specific social class of people in a negative way?