上位 200 件のコメント全て表示する 246

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (77子コメント)

I'm the author of the /r/skyrimmods thread on the subject and the guy who 'discovered' the downgrade in the first place (not that it's an achievement of mine, all I did was look inside the sound archives in a bid to confirm my suspicions).

I posted a comparison on Soundcloud that demonstrates the difference between the vanilla and Special Edition audio using the level up sound as a test case. If you're interested in hearing the difference, you can listen here (original first, Special Edition second): https://soundcloud.com/lasurarkinshade/skyrim-special-edition-audio-downgrade-comparison-level-up

EDIT: I uploaded the same comparison to Google Drive in high-quality .wav format. If you're having difficulty hearing the difference in the Soundcloud link, or want to hear the true scope of the quality difference without it being obfuscated by Soundcloud, find it here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwqAlz4rIx2XOGVFQXAxSWJQVUU/view

Dropbox mirror since Google Drive is apparently wilting under the demand: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gwxk619a4ijcr88/ui_levelup%20comparison%20wav.wav?dl=0

[–]Decoyrobot [スコア非表示]  (51子コメント)

Thats awful, i thought the soundcloud sound bite wasnt loading right at first. How did they think noone would hear that difference?

[–]Messin-About [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Some of the comments saying it's not that noticeable and I agreed till I put on headphones. I think if this was playing through sorta crappy speakers no difference would be noticed, but with decent headphones on (I've got Sennheisser Urbanite, not sure if audiophiles find these "good") I could tell the punchiness of the bass and the crisp metal sound is significantly worse (I think lacking might even be appropriate here, considering it sounds like it cuts out) in the updated version.

[–]SomniumOv [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

(I've got Sennheisser Urbanite, not sure if audiophiles find these "good")

Criticizing Sennheiser is the audiophile equivalent to criticizing Deux Ex 1 as a PC Gamer, or Citizen Kane as a cinephile. It can be done, and there can be good reasons to do so, but you've really got to be on top of your knowledge game not to look like a luddite in the process.

[–]wOlfLisK [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ugh, Deux Ex 1 was terrible, it wasn't linear enough to find the exit easily /s.

[–]kadauserer [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I don't get why the brand Sennheiser alone already supposedly guarantees great sound. They have cheap headphones as well which, while probably decent for their price, are by no means great headphones.

Owning "Sennheisers" doesn't automatically mean you own amazing headphones.

[–]vmullapudi1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have some cheap 20 dollar speakers and I can definitely hear it.

[–]RedhandedMan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hell, I listened to it with a pair of 7 dollar earbuds and I could tell the difference right away.

[–]yossarian490 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There are some sounds that still sound normal to me on my bookshelf speakers and sub, but some that sound absolutely awful. Pages turning and picking up food are two of the worst.

[–]name_was_taken [スコア非表示]  (41子コメント)

I actually can't tell the difference, using my headphones. (Which are probably fairly meh, but they're over-ear and not earbuds or anything.)

I don't doubt that there are a lot of people who can tell the difference, but there are at least some people who can't.

Edit: Sennheiser HD201.

[–]lanster100 [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

Listen to the sword sound, just click between the two parts in the clip, the difference is huge. I'm also listening on shitty headphones.

[–]name_was_taken [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Okay, if I click between those 2 parts, I can hear a difference.

But without hearing them side-by-side, I couldn't tell. And I was clicking back and forth before to see if it sounded different, I just didn't choose that part in particular.

[–]Skullkan6 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

You might not know what compression sounds like.

[–]name_was_taken [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's entirely possible. Audio isn't really my specialty.

[–]hotcod [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If audio, specifically audio quality, is not something you pay attention to normally it's not odd that you wouldn't explicitly pick up on it. But equally I'd be willing to bet you, and most everyone else who can't tell much of a difference, would still pick the uncompressed version in a blind test.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

If we have to jump through hoops to tell the difference, then is it really a difference worth worrying about?

[–]DevlinRocha [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yes because there is absolutely no reason why the audio should downgrade, especially in a remastered special edition, if anything it should be better quality.

[–]velrak [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

we? You mean those two guys over there? Not the rest who can clearly hear a difference?

[–]lanster100 [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

What hoops? It's obvious, did you even listen to it? It's night and day, I'm guessing you just spent £40 on this though

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It wasn't obvious to me, but I could make it out eventually.

I'm guessing you just spent £40 on this though

I got it for free. But hey, congrats on being hostile and making this some stupid personal thing instead of responding to my question.

[–]Bixler17 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

He did answer the question lol, if you can't tell the difference that's fine but it's a pretty massive one to everyone else.

[–]PhysicsIsMyMistress [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Based on the posts here, I'd question if this is a massive difference to everyone else. Certainly a good portion of the players.

[–]jwestbury [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I haven't bought it (might've gotten it for free?) and have zero interest in playing it. Honestly, on the cheap headphones I've got at work, I can hear a difference, but just barely, and I couldn't say which is better (in fact, I guessed wrong). Maybe with my good headphones + amp at home I could hear the difference, but if my cheap Sennheiser earbuds don't show a difference, I'm not too concerned.

Still, it's stupid to downgrade the audio for no reason.

[–]Paladia [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The difference is very noticeable on my G633 at least. The second one almost sounds like some messed up radio signal.

[–]Yuzumi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I listened to it though a pair of $20 desktop speakers. The new one sounds muted and much less crisp.

I'm not much of an audiophile, but I have setup a home theater system and can tell when something is off.

[–]pedrorq [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Sennheiser HD201

I would bet the HD201 are better quality than the headphones 99.99% of gamers use :P

[–]Yuzumi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You don't need expensive audio equipment to dell the deference between these.

[–]Fyrus [スコア非表示]  (13子コメント)

A majority of people can't tell the difference. I'm a bit of an audiophile and I had no idea till I saw this post. I still don't even care. Besides that, multiple tests have been done where people listen to different bitrates of audio, and in every test it was shown that the average person has no idea which sounds better.

Not excusing this though, I feel bad for people who do notice it. Hard to understand why they would compress it.

[–]johndoep53 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

The original download size is 6gb, the special edition is 12gb. Even in the impossible scenario that all 6gb of the original game was audio and it got added to the SE that would still make 18gb, a significant marginal increase but not all that much compared to new AAA game sizes these days. Why go through all this effort for a visual fidelity and simultaneously decrease audio fidelity? The file size surely can't be enough to justify it, but I can't think of any other reason.

[–]calnamu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I really don't know but I remember that the German voice acting is heavily compressed, too. Such a shame.

[–]HappierShibe [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

A majority of people can't tell the difference.

This is bad enough that nearly anyone will be able to tell in a side by side comparison, and anyone who has spent hundreds of hours with skyrim will probably notice without the direct comparison.

I tried it out briefly last night, assumed something was wrong with my audio drivers or headphones, and figured I would take a look at it later.

[–]Fyrus [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I have over 400 hours in Skyrim and I didn't notice.

Countdown to someone telling me my ears are shit or something. I am a drummer, so my ears probably are kind of shit.

[–]Spankyjnco [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Your ears are shit, or something.

6 hours in skyrim regular, none in SE as its cash grab only.

[–]BHoss [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Except for the whole free on PC thing if you already own the regular version. Such a cash grab.

[–]Schlick7 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Well you have to own all the expansion's as well

[–]MrGMinor [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

as its cash grab only.

Oooorrr for people like me who never played through on last gen?

[–]Romulus_Novus [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I literally cannot tell the difference at all whilst flicking between the two

[–]runtheplacered [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

will be able to tell in a side by side comparison

Well, nobody plays the game with the other game right next to them, in order to compare it. So that seems kind of moot.

The real question is, is it bad enough in order to damper the experience in some way? Doesn't seem to be the case. Telling people about it and watching them raise their pitchforks certainly proves nothing one way or another, since grabbing a pitchfork is built into everyone's muscle memory at this point. Because until it was brought up, and people could listen to a side-by-side comparison, nobody seemed to give a rats ass.

[–]The_Other_Manning [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I have over 300 hours and I honestly could tell a difference in the soundcloud file. I had to try and guess which was from og skyrim and which is the new one

[–]Vinny_Cerrato [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm using earbuds but I noticed it after replaying the clips a few times. I probably wouldn't have been able to tell the difference if it hadn't been pointed out to me, but then again I haven't played Skyrim in over a year.

[–]lulu_or_feed [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

those headphones can still give you a fairly decent sound, depending on your EQ settings.

[–]ARTIFICIAL_SAPIENCE [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I can barely tell the difference. It's to such a degree that if I wasn't looking for something, I wouldn't have noticed it. I'm not very sensitive to this stuff.

The overall sound is a little more even. As if the punchier bits have been slightly muted.

[–]SweetLobsterBabies [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There is an INCREDIBLE difference, granted I have trained ears from producing music, so subtle quality differences and the like stand out a lot more, but I'm using a Corsair Void headset for gaming.

The second one sounds like utter shit. Think of it like when you turn your car stereo up too loud, listen for that distortion where the sound clips. It also is much less clear

[–]MidnightXII [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I love my HD201s. Can't beat the price for the quality you get.

[–]tobascodagama [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yup. I still can't believe how good they sound for what they cost. They feel a little cheapish, is my only complaint. But they're comfortable and sound great.

[–]reymt [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Sound is very subjective. You can basically train your ear/brain combo to be better at hearing sound quality by hearing high res stuff on good equipment.

Actually similar to framerate: Someone that only ever played on 30fps will often have trouble 'seeing' if something is 30 or 60fps. But it 'feels' still somehow different for most people.

[–]Greggster990 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For me the easiest to notice difference at the metallic sheathing sound at 0:02 and 0:14.

[–]Xandercz [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

What's the reason to compress it more? I don't understand.

[–]Rammite [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Might be they were scared of running out of disk space or something. Textures and audio files are the immense bulk of a game's size.

If they made textures beautiful, they might've made audio files crap to save space.

[–]DarkWalnut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That can't be it, the game is only 12GB. They have loads of room left on today's discs.

[–]g_raysnn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Disk space? Blu-rays are used now for next gen console games so that's not an issue.

[–]walrusbot [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I thought Bethesda did wierd shit with shaders to bring down the amount of space the textures take up or something

[–]neunen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

it's slightly possible it was a mistake in the deployment

[–]Carighan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oh wow, that sounds as if they transmitted it via phone. Ugh.

[–]tobascodagama [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Oof, the popping on that second clip. That's just nasty.

[–]reddit_is_dog_shit [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm guessing in the future someone can just re-encode the WAV files from the original Skyrim into higher quality lossy files for the special edition, yeah?

[–]hirmuolio [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

The google drive download is overloaded and refuses to hand out the file.

[–]CakeSandwich [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

That's not really a fair comparison if one click is a lossless format encoded into a Soundcloud's format, and the other is a lossy format that's been transcoded for Soundcloud. I think Soundcloud encodes into 128kbps mp3, which is very low quality anyway.

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Funny timing - right as you posted that, I edited my comment to include the comparison in high-quality .wav format. Feel free to listen to that one if you don't want Soundcloud's compression to bias your perception.

[–]puppymeat [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Honestly, to me, those both sound bad, but in different ways. Maybe it's just soundcloud compression which makes the first sound bad? That first cymbal hit, you can hear the audio artifacts

[–]Calorie_Mate [スコア非表示]  (32子コメント)

Holy crap so this is real? I actually blamed my headphones.... Just like the original OP in the link, something just sounds off.

Man, that's not the only thing I'm disappointed in so far. And in the end, heavily modded (old-)Skyrim looks and runs better than vanilla SE for me. I'm glad I got it for free and hope they work on it some more to make it worth the money for those who paid for it.

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (30子コメント)

The thing that frustrates me (I'm the OP on /r/skyrimmods) is that the remaster is actually a very significant boon to the engine's performance and stability. Numerous performance bottlenecks have been fixed - where the game previously would suffer massive performance drops and crashes when more than 20 actors were on screen, it can now handle over 1000 actors on-screen without crashing.

It's just unfortunate that Bethesda decided to mar what would have been a nice engine upgrade with stupid things like this.

[–]Cyanity [スコア非表示]  (28子コメント)

Is there any chance that this can be fixed through modding the original vanilla sound files back in?

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (26子コメント)

It almost definitely can be. The issue is that distributing such a mod would technically constitute piracy since you'd essentially be handing out Bethesda's assets, unedited, to people - even moreso since the old version of Skyrim and the Special Edition are technically two separate games.

That means it'd be up to every individual user of the remaster to install the old version, install a .bsa extraction tool, extract the old audio assets and replace them themselves - if you wanted to avoid copyright infringement.

[–]Dryver-NC [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Would it be possible to make a mod that requires both games to be installed and that then only rewrites the references to which folder the Special Edition opens sound bites from?

[–]Aperture_Kubi [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's kinda what Tale of Two Wastelands does. You point the installer at your FO3 install, and it pulls assets from that and transforms them to be usable for the mod.

Granted for Skyrim you're asking for probably several gigabytes.

[–]MurderManTX [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

but it's only piracy if you don't own the old version right? I still don't get it though. Doesn't the special edition come WITH the original?

[–]Manic020 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

SE came with the normal version, but the audio files (or any files from the OG game) are still copyrighted work, which you cannot redistribute without permission, no if's and's or but's (This applies to all media, be it games, movies, etc., and owning it in one form doesn't give you permission to download a different copy from a third party). As far as I know, BethSoft have never given modders permission to redistribute in-game assets, so the only option is for people to do it themselves. However, there's also no stopping someone from making a guide to teach people how to do it themselves, which I'm sure is in the works by someone somewhere as we speak.

[–]xxnekuxx [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

it's not the owning of it, it's the distribution of it that's the issue. A legal fix would be a mod that moves/copies the audio files from the OG Skyrim to the SE Skyrim. But then that would require you to have both versions installed.

[–]Cyanity [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I feel like someone's going to do this anyway, upload it to Nexus, and get away with it. I wait for that day.

[–]SkunkMonkey [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

And Nexus will remove it as soon as it's brought to their attention.

[–]TheMightyKutKu [スコア非表示]  (8子コメント)

Honestly i think you can bypass this by officialy asking bethesda if it is ok, if they agree then it won't be piracy.

Also since , at least on pc most SSE users have the normal skyrim you can distribute a program that automatically extract and replace the audio from the original skyrim.

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

They wont allow it. it sets a precedent for them where someone would take their assets and use it in a completely different game, saying hey, they didn't have a problem with this before. Best thing they can do is provide the original assets to download into the new game themselves, call it an "enhanced audio" package or something.

[–]SomniumOv [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

or just patch them back in if there's enough of a stir.

[–]TheMightyKutKu [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Best thing would be to update it.

Yes I agree with you , I would find it surprising if they allow modded to distribute the original audio.

A question, how likely is it that a (somewhat illegal) mod that replace the audio would be shut down if it is released now?

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Nearly immediately. If not by the Nexus mods, then by Bethesda telling them to and sending cease and desist letters to the creator.

[–]TheMightyKutKu [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Thank you!

There Is something that I don't understand though, why is it be illegal to share the files when you can listen to them on youtube?

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not a lawyer, but my guess is YouTube is not using the exact original files. the files were probably plucked and converted to a separate format then uploaded to YouTube's format, again a separate one. so it's the audio, but not the in-game assets.

Sharing the assets as is would be copying in-game content exactly and hence illegal.

Also, most developers have taken a hands off approach with YouTube uploaders showing off this kind of stuff. It doesn't negatively hurt them in any way for their game music to be listened to, and likely helps their sales somewhat. At most they may claim copywrite content to prevent the uploader from making money from the views, but it's not in their interest to forcibly remove the content for little to no reason.

[–]omnilynx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

How could specifically asking for permission to do something set a precedent for doing something without permission?

[–]zilxy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

sigh

Guess I'll put off messing with the SE until I feel up to doing some tinkering. That's fine I guess, I'm currently pretty occupied with Civ6 and Battlefield 1. Guess I know what I'm doing once winter kicks in.

[–]hearwa [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Not if you just created an application that copied the old Skyrim audio to the new, if possible

[–]homer_3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You could get a around that by making a mod that moves the original sound files on the local machine from the vanilla location to the se location. Of course, it'd require owning vanilla.

[–]polyculist [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Doesn't sound like a terribly complicated script to write, speaking as someone who knows nothing about modding but has done plenty of sysadmin scripting.

[–]Evan11900 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Could you make a more in-depth tutorial?

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'll wait a while to see whether or not Bethesda decide to address this themselves. If a few days go by and there's no word from Bethesda (and no community member puts together an equivalent tutorial in my stead), I'll consider putting together a tutorial on how to port the old audio into the SE.

I don't want to do so just yet, though. Not without seeing whether or not Bethesda are going to step up and fix this themselves.

[–]FurCollarCriminal [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

For sure. There is a multitude of audio mods which can replace practically every vanilla sound. Personally I use lucidity sound fx, audio overhaul for skyrim 2, and immersive sounds compendium (all loaded in that order, as there is a lot of overlap).

[–]Calorie_Mate [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah I've been looking forward ever since to this, exactly for the enhanced possibilities of the SE. But so far, its certainly been a disappointing experience.

I'll just have to wait and see what happens from either side, Bethesda and the modding scene.

[–]eoinster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It runs worse? Man, I knew it'd look worse but my heavily modded skyrim looks like shit, I was hoping for an increase there. I'll try it when I get home, it's preloaded.

[–]dumb_jellyfish [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

"Hay guys, let's take these 22 and 32 kHz audio files and re-compress them with something that will make the file size smaller! Trust me, I know what I'm doing, I used to be really popular on Kazaa."

[–]htwhooh [スコア非表示]  (67子コメント)

Why is Bethesda so incompetent when it comes to their games not having glaring technical issues?

[–]broadcasthenet [スコア非表示]  (25子コメント)

Because they sell massively popular games that have massive glaring problems that they abandon and force the community to fix. Their games have only sold more over the years, why would they change practices when their games only get higher ratings and sell more the worse they become?

It's a feedback loop. You gotta train your devs and publishers like a dog, don't reward shitty behavior.

[–]B_Rhino [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

Fallout 4 was the least buggy so far.

Console versions sell way more than PC (at first) no one was modding to fix any issues on 360 or PS3 Skyrim to make it "playable"

[–]hamptonwooster [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I was pleasantly surprised at Fallout 4's launch stability. Skyrim was a nightmare in comparison.

[–]broadcasthenet [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

For many people they couldn't even get past the wagon ride in the first 45 seconds of the game it would bug out and then it wouldn't progress any farther and you couldn't get out of the wagon to progress the opening cinematic either.

This was actually fixed by Bethesda though one of the few things modders didn't have to fix. Although modders did find a way around it long before Bethesda decided to step in.

[–]B_Rhino [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

one of the few things modders didn't have to fix.

Do you honestly think they don't fix bugs at all? These are massive games, with tons of patches. Modders come in and fix very specific issues that happen to a minority of players and people think beth quit development on the game.

[–]htwhooh [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It wasn't as buggy as past games, but it had really inconsistent performance on both consoles and PC, especially considering the below par visuals

[–]Rainuwastaken [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Fallout 4 was the least buggy so far.

Did we play the same game? Fallout 4 was a god damned hive of bugs.

[–]TheBoozehammer [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Did you play their older games? Those were bigger hives.

[–]landdoctor [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Fallout New Vegas - where a whole DLC is one big bug circus.

[–]SomniumOv [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

It's not their game.

[–]landdoctor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Doesn't change the fact that it's using the same engine like other bethesda games - and runs exactly like one. It feels as buggy and unfinished as a TES game, if not worse. Actually, it was worse.

[–]runtheplacered [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Weird, because they were the publishers, and I guarantee they made a shit load of money on it. Just because they weren't the developers doesn't mean they get to get off scot-free. They charged money for it. Why can't I give them any shit? They easily could have said "here's another 3 months, fix some more bugs" or whatever time-frame.

[–]wastelandavenger [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Which one was that? I've played them all and don't remember any particular issues

[–]landdoctor [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Dead Money was the one that killed my savegame. It was just awful, half of the scripts didn't run properly and had to be activated via console. Apparently the scripts are a quite common bug-source with dead money.

[–]Zantza [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I don't think I've encountered a single proper bug while playing FO4. Maybe some minor glitches but nothing even close to gamebreaking. I've got 111 hours in it.

[–]Bladethegreat [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Fallout 4 was the least buggy on PC sure, but jesus christ was the console version a mess

[–]thisbecharlie [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I bought it on PC and still have bugs that existed on launch day. I don't understand the bug-free sentiment even as someone that played Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim (also bought at launch), FO3, and NV. My experience with Fallout 4 was a series of bugs that made the game progressively more annoying to play.

[–]MaceOfBass [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I've played every Beth RPG since Oblivion on a console, and FO4 was easily the most complete from a technical standpoint.

I don't know what happened to you, but the comparison wasn't even close for me.

[–]Neato [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Fallout 4 was the least buggy so far.

Sure, but that's not a high bar to set when your previous releases would corrupt save files some dozens of hours in on console. Along with tons of other terrible bugs. Bethesda is one of the worst big AAA developers for consistently putting out buggy messes.

[–]AntonioOfFlorence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

force the community to fix.

Holy shit, the hyperbole. It's too much.

[–]DruidCity3 [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

Because they make games with a million moving parts that are probably a nightmare to fully test.

[–]bluemtndew [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

excuses, excuses

[–]DruidCity3 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No fucking way am I making an excuse. I can't enjoy Bethesda games because of their bugs/jankiness.

[–]FriendlyDespot [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

So do a bunch of other game developers. Bethesda consistently fall short on technical quality with their games compared to the industry average, and many of their problems are glaring day one issues that are not difficult to test.

[–]runtheplacered [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What are these... "bunches" of games that allow you to mess with practically every little thing in the game? I'm curious.

I'm actually with you in that their games obviously fall short of what they could be if more time was put into them. But I'm not sure using hyperbole is going to help any.

[–]iHeartCandicePatton [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

So do a bunch of other game developers

I wouldn't say "a bunch."

[–]Neato [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Ubisoft and CD Projekt RED come to mind. MMOs are arguably more complex but in different ways and there's tons of those with less game-breaking bugs.

[–]StrandsOfStrange [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Which one of their games has Bethesda's amount of interactive-ness?

[–]madamz [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Easy to test, but difficult to fix. I'm not an expert but I've heard in the past that most of these "legacy" bugs have to do with deeply-rooted issues with their engine, meaning that fixing those problems would have all kinds of unpredictable effects on basically every aspect of the game that would then need to be addressed. The thinking, then, is basically that the familiar legacy bugs are easier to work around than the countless unfamiliar ones that would pop up otherwise.

I'm not saying this excuses their games from being buggy, I just think it's probably a more complex issue than people are making it out to be.

[–]StarkyA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Then you get people saying "they should just make a new engine" which is also daft.

making a gaming engine is by far the most expensive and complex thing a gaming studio can do. So much so that it's only worth it if you're going to be using it for multiple games, and there are no other engines that meet your needs.
It's also not something you can just let your regular game coders have a crack at (not unless you're a indie game and your requirements are pretty simple.

There is a reason Star Citizen, a game with all the money and the time in the world to do what it wants is using a highly modified Crysis 3 engine as a base.

And outside of a few features that less than 1% of PC gamers even care about (FPS greater than 60, ultrawide, multi-monitor being the main 3) and 0% of console gamers care about.

It's pretty bloody hard for Bethesda to justify to their parent company that they need $150-200 million dollars to scrap their existing engine and make a new one from scratch to make some features for a few hundred thousands angry PC gamers.
So instead they patch and evolve their existing engine as best they can.

[–]StarkyA [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm gonna quote an article I read ages ago that really changed my mind on Bethesda when it comes to bugs. And how trying to "polish" their games is actually ruining them.

But what if you’re a gamer who doesn’t care about Bethesda’s staff turnover or work environment? What if you don’t care how the sausage is made and you simply want a tasty, bug-free sausage? It turns out how the sausage is made has great bearing on what you end up eating.

Bethesda’s games allow for absurd levels of player freedom in a huge playground of quests, characters, and systems. You can create your own character, equipment, and, in Fallout 4, town. You can spend hundreds of hours exploring aimlessly. You can join factions and guilds, be good or evil. Many games do these things, but Bethesda’s brilliance is that it places minimal restrictions on how players interact with, or overlap, these systems.

Want to kill some major quest givers, locking yourself out of a ton of content? Sure! Want to skip hours searching for your father in Fallout 3 by stumbling on his hidden location? Why not? Feel like putting so many cabbages into your house in Oblivion that the game barely functions? Knock yourself, and your framerate, out!

Meanwhile, every Assassin’s Creed protagonist will “de-sync” if he kills too many civilians. Solid Snake’s missions are aborted if he leaves the area. You can’t pull out a gun in Mass Effect unless the game decides it is Designated Gun Time.

This isn’t to say these games are bad. They’re quite good, actually. They’re just trying to avoid messy edge cases that make the fiction, the world, the tech, or the gameplay look bad. Such restrictions are like the berms encircling Disneyland, ensuring you don’t see anything less than perfect or see what’s happening backstage.

Bethesda games don’t care. They excel at what I’d call the “minimally-supported edge case.” They let you do what the systems and the world imply you can do. Even if it’s not well supported. Even if it’s going to look bad. Because that freedom is what’s important and special.

“Polish” is all about smoothing these rough edges. There is no cost-effective way of polishing most goofy edge cases. In fact, it’s often harder than building the core system. If you’re focused on making a polished, bug-free game, the smart move is to remove them, or make them impossible to reproduce. Bethesda’s games don’t do this. They often do the absolute minimum needed to make these edge cases work, but they keep them in.

There are smart ways to develop and polish games with huge scope and scale. The most reliable is to make the core design more predictable and repeatable, and less interdependent. Create a set number of formalized game play primitives or mission types, and repeat them over the game with a few mechanical twists and scaling difficulty. Make each “story mission” self-contained and separate them from the “free roaming systems.” Keep friendly “story spaces” from overlapping with combat. Mete out major upgrades on a tight schedule in line with story progression, but have less important or cosmetic upgrades be something you can grind for.

Does this sound like a game you’ve played recently? It isn’t a coincidence. These are some of the most reliable solutions for reducing edge cases and making implementation (and results) as predictable as possible in a large, open-world game. This also is exactly opposite of what makes Bethesda’s games magical. They’re sloppy, sprawling, surprising messes that show the sticky fingerprints of the people who made them. Polish says “no” a lot more than it says “yes,” and you can hear a lot of yes in Bethesda’s games.

Polish says you probably shouldn’t do a quest with a talking dog, because it’s going to look terrible with the lip sync system. Polish says you shouldn’t do a one-off Rube Goldberg trap using hundreds of physics objects in the game’s “creaky engine.” Polish says you probably shouldn’t put a “flying” spell that will kill the player 20 minutes into the game because it will playtest badly.

I simply don’t think it’s feasible to make a Bethesda game that’s polished in the same way other AAA games are. That requires focus and formalization, and Bethesda excels at the opposite. So why try to fix this at all? If you’ve built a studio that works, making games your audience loves, why not slowly grow that success in a truly sustainable way, instead of risking it to keep pace with the rest of the industry? As developers, they’re in an enviable place—making epic games at a human scale.

Of course, none of this means squat when a save bug wipes out hours of progress, or you get locked in an elevator. I’ve been there with Bethesda games myself. These are things I do wish they could fix, and I’m sure they do, too. I can’t even fault the gamers who can’t get past less severe bugs, the lack of polish, or the general jankiness. Who can really blame them for not wanting a gristly sausage when we’ve got all this smooth, delicious gaming foie gras, stuffed full of the blood, sweat and tears of hundreds and hundreds of developers?

Yes, video games, like Soylent Green, are made out of people. Knowing this, and experiencing it from the other side, I really value playing games that still feel like they were made by actual humans; vast, complex, and sloppy games where you can feel the specific personalities, creative passions, and playfulness of the people who made them because these things haven’t been ground out into one uniform standard of quality. As a developer, I love working on games that actually allow every person involved to contribute and own something that feels like unique creative expression, and have it survive to the end of the development cycle.

But as AAA scales to $100 million-plus budgets and four-digit team sizes in search of a smooth, unbreakable surface of polish, it’s becoming increasingly difficult to find these things, for players or developers. But I still see it in the quirks and glitches of Bethesda’s edge cases, and I see it in a development team that is small enough that you can still see each expression in a single photo.

Source: https://www.wired.com/2015/11/fallout-4-bugs/

[–]Vinny_Cerrato [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's incredible how many people that post here cannot seem to grasp this concept.

[–]calnamu [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Because it has nothing to do with many issues, like the sound quality we are talking about right now.

[–]AntonioOfFlorence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's more that gamers like yourself think you are experts in game design because you spend so much time playing games.

You don't get AAA games without problems. Especially complex games like Bethesda's games.

[–]everymmoisgarbage [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is a company that has been using a shitty engine from the early 2000s. Fallout 4 doesn't even have real PBR texturing for fuck sakes.

[–]Dusty8 [スコア非表示]  (17子コメント)

Doubt it was BGS handling the remaster, I'd imagine they're working on TES VI now.

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

From what I can gather the remaster was handled by Bethesda Game Studios, but a lot (or maybe all) of the heavy lifting was done by their newly-opened Montreal division.

[–]Erkant42 [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

The work of TES VI hasn't even begun, you can expect it in 2019-2021 at best.

[–]36yearsofporn [スコア非表示]  (14子コメント)

I know that's what they've said. I find that hard to believe. Not impossible, but difficult. I think it's more likely it's simply a company policy to deny they're working on it.

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I imagine they are working on the engine itself right now, and maybe concepts of the game such as the area, overall story, etc. So the game itself isn't under active development, but the systems for it are and the game concept is currently being figured out.

[–]Jazzremix [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

I imagine they are working on the engine itself right now

I'd be shocked if they were using a different engine. The current engine runs like it's being held together with duct tape and band-aids.

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

it likely won't be a completely different engine, just an upgraded one from what they have. The engine fits their need, so they won't change to something completely different. Hopefully they work on making better animations and movement mechanics this time.

[–]famousninja [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

They've been using the same engine since morrowind

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Upgrading an engine can be just as effective as developing a new one from scratch, and takes much less time. COD is running on the same engine as MW. Witcher 3 is running on the same engine as Witcher 2.

[–]36yearsofporn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I think the safest way to put it is that none of us truly know. But sometimes that's more fun. We can speculate to our heart's content, without having pesky facts get in the way. Even for the people citing Bethesda's official comments on it, "We're not working on an EOS VI" we can reply, "Well, that's what they would say if they ARE working on it!"

[–]TheRealRacker [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Didn't they deny working on fallout 4 up to a few months before release?

[–]36yearsofporn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's the way I remember it.

They ended up delaying Fallout 4's release, or the timeline would have been even quicker.

[–]eoinster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

They said the same about Fallout 4. I wouldn't be surprised by an e3 2018 announcement and quick release after that, now that they have an e3 presence.

[–]SomniumOv [スコア非表示]  (16子コメント)

Not on PS4 though, apparently, there they use another format (encoded from their internal source files, it's higher quaiity than before).

[–]rather_be_a_hobbit [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

There have been reports of it sounding like crap on headsets with the ps4.

[–]ANUSTART942 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I literally cannot tell the difference between the versions.

[–]ContributorX_PJ64 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm very sorry to hear this. And I can't imagine the audio engineers and musicians and various people who worked on the original game are happy that their work has been compressed to hell for no apparent reason.

[–]TheJackalMan [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Didn't something similar happen to the BioShock remasters? Is there a mutual third party involved with both products?

[–]reincarN8ed [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Maybe it's a combination of my tinnitus and my basic came-with-the-phone ear buds, but I can't hear the difference.

[–]LasurArkinshade [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

It's probably mostly the latter. In general, lower-quality audio playback devices (like generic phone earbuds) are much more forgiving of low-quality audio sources since they're not not reproducing the sound completely accurately or at a very high quality anyway.

The curse of higher-end audio hardware is that, the better your headphones/speakers are, the more jarring low-quality audio sources (e.g. compressed Skyrim audio) become.

[–]apleima2 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Kind of like 30fps being pretty janky after playing 60 fps. I played the TF1 Beta on Xbox for several hours, then switched to Destiny to play PvP with a buddy. The difference was very shocking.

[–]Deakul [スコア非表示]  (15子コメント)

Why the fuck is it that nearly every single god damned remaster that comes out on the PC is WORSE than the original game?

[–]famousninja [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Hell, even the Duke 3d remaster had shitty sound as well.

[–]Tiranasta [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

To be fair, the SE is a significant improvement in a lot of ways. Doesn't excuse this, though.

[–]Hellknightx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, they even added rain/snow occlusion. Tons of really cool improvements. Bethesda just has a history of using shitty compression techniques to save space.

[–]KittenWithMittens [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Wow.. The difference is huge. The new audio sounds awful. Can we just mod back the old sounds and be all good?

[–]Hellknightx [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, but it might be tough to get around Bethesda's EULA. You could do it yourself, but I don't think you'll be able to find it on Nexus since the mod would be entirely comprised of vanilla assets from the original game (which is technically different from SE).

Someone will probably write a batch script or custom installer to do it automatically, assuming you have both versions installed.

[–]Jakokar [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I can hear a difference but it doesn't sound worse to me, just balanced differently - it sounds more even, and less likely to scare the shit out of me.

[–]GreenFigsAndJam [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

That's what it sounds like when you have a highly compressed dynamic range.

[–]Tzamen [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Can we copy the original sound file and paste it on the new version?

[–]rbarton812 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

"The downgraded audio is so Nintendo's shitty Switch console can handle the processing."

Somebody, somewhere, probably.

[–]TerranFirma [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

I'm still expecting the Switch to run the old version of Skyrim honestly lol

[–]Omicron0 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

no reason not to use the new one, it runs better. it may need to lose the volumetric lights and extra fog but that's it.

[–]SecondGust [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Do we even have the specs of the Switch yet?

[–]ZapActions-dower [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, there's a major unveiling conference in January but no major news until then.

We do know (from NVidia themselves) that it's running a custom Tegra chip in the handheld form.

[–]Omicron0 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

nope, only that it's Tegra. and the current though unused in tablets Tegra has a 768 Gigaflop GPU. but the nintendo one is custom so worse/better.. no one knows.

[–]AntonioOfFlorence [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is absolutely disgusting.

I's so sick of game developers fucking us with pre-orders and bad sounds and better graphics.

We should make a petition or jerk each other off or SOMETHING.

[–]InboardPG [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Wasn't this the case for the Bioshock remaster?

[–]brunothemad [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Man, that compressions sounds as bad as GTA San Andreas or something from that era. Very disappointing for a 'remaster.' Not sure why spacial constraints are still forcing this kind of compression with game assets on pc.