全 105 件のコメント

[–]danwin[S] 61ポイント62ポイント  (38子コメント)

Edit: u/TheTim delivers https://www.reddit.com/r/shittykickstarters/comments/55lkez/oregon_department_of_justice_launches/d8c44eh

Anyone backer have the email? Here's part of it: Coolest Cooler: Amazon Launchpad has been the Worst Company to Deal With:

Many of our efforts in retail have been put on hold as we’ve been continually challenged by Amazon Launchpad. If you haven’t heard, despite their original verbal promise to not advertise or sell our Coolest Cooler below our retail price, Amazon is now selling the Coolest at $224.99. This is $175 OFF the retail price of $399. This is disastrous for us.

We shouldn’t be surprised, I suppose. Amazon Launchpad has been the worstcompany to deal with despite their claims to help startups. We wish we never got involved with them as they have significantly delayed and harmed our ability to serve you. To be clear, the sale we made last year to Amazon Launchpad helped generate the revenue to ship additional backers units this year, but what they’ve done since has ended up hurting us (and you).

[–]HuTheFinnMan 137ポイント138ポイント  (10子コメント)

Wait... so Coolest completely fucked up their crowdfunding campaign and despite raising millions of dollars somehow ended up not having enough money to deliver the coolers to all the backers. They then decided to charge backers an extra $60 or so (from memory) for shipping to cover the costs and on top of that had to sell extra coolers through retail to raise enough money to deliver the rest of the backers coolers. They did this through Amazon who quickly discovered that their wasn't much market for an overpriced gimmicky cooler and that most of the suckers who would buy one had already done so through the original crowdfunding campaign. To be able to move any stock at all Amazon wanted to reduce the price rather than have a ton of shitty coolers sitting around unsold. So Amazon dropped the price so they could actually sell the coolers so Coolest could generate some income to finish shipping backers rewards but it made Coolest look bad because people were getting coolers from Amazon quicker and cheaper than the backers.

Seems like this all came about from Coolest being shit at business and managing money in the first place and they then used Amazon to try and save their ass. Backers were rightly pissed off at this. I don't see how any of this is Amazons fault.

[–]RiffyDivine2 32ポイント33ポイント  (2子コメント)

They are going for the underdog look so people feel bad that amazon is all big and stomping them. Normal bullshit.

[–]ConcernedInScythe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I still find them pretty sympathetic, though. Even acting in good faith, how the fuck are they supposed to get out of this hole? This is basically the problem with selling a product for a given price before you have any idea what the manufacturing costs will be, but that has to be chalked up as a mistake due to nobody really understanding crowdfunding at the time.

[–]chernann 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Declare bankruptcy, buy assets and inventory back for pennies on the dollar - bankruptcy trustee repays backers in proportion. New company can then raise money from investors because they have no debt, and can then ship "out of goodwill" to anyone who was stiffed, perhaps with a small fee.

Of course, they should have done that in November 2015 when they realized they were $4 million in the hole (assuming production and shipping costs of around $200). Now the brand is tainted and Amazon Launchpad has demonstrated there's no demand.

They should still declare bankruptcy though, otherwise this situation will just get worse.

[–]elliuotatar 2ポイント3ポイント  (6子コメント)

I don't see how any of this is Amazons fault.

Well then perhaps you should re-read that bit about how they promised not to undercut Coolest and their Kickstarter campaign, and they did so anyway.

Sure, the rest of it is the dude's fault. But honestly, the only thing I see that he did wrong was that he charged too little for the coolers in the first place.

One can hardly fault him for spending a little extra time making sure the final product was a quality one. Some backers may be angry about delays that resulted from that, but those backers are idiots that probably buy furniture from Walmart.

Also, this dude was an inventor, and his campaign grew far beyond what he had planned. As a small business owner myself, I can see how he could quickly become overwhelmed with the logistics of delivering a product like this to so many, and on too small a budget.

Hell, Facebook has billions of dollars in the bank, and yet after buying Oculus, they failed to deliver the Rift in a timely manner, and failed to deliver the touch controllers at launch. They have also had a serious quality control issues where one screen would have a red tint in dark scenes.

People do not understand that the products they are backing on Kickstarter are usually being produced by people with very little experience developing products, and if they have some experience, it is probably not on the same scale as what is required if you suddenly sell millions of dollars worth of product.

So I applaud the Coolest cooler guy's efforts. One should expect nothing in return when backing a Kickstarter project. Then one will not be disappointed with the outcome. So long as the creator is clearly making their best effort to deliver, it is hard to fault them when they stumble. And a lot of this problem is because so many idiots who don't understand what Kickstarter is and don't understand how complicated and expensive it is to design a product like this, are throwing money at these campaigns. This is why the government doesn't allow your average joe to invest in a startup like a wealthy person can. They thought people were too stupid to invest wisely. Well, Kickstarter proves that is the case, but the amounts donated are small, so people aren't going to lose their shirt over it.

[–]danwin[S] 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

They verbally promised him, according to his own letter. I'm guessing there is at least something in writing that says Amazon reserves the right to drop the price as needed, or else Amazon would be on the hook for storage costs if, as is the current reality, it turns out that the product isn't selling.

So, sure, it is Amazon's "fault" in the sense that it's their decision to do the price cut. I'm sure Amazon would love to continue selling at the highest price possible but they aren't. For the creator to make Amazon the absolute villain here seems disingenuous here. Is there really no paperwork at all that was signed that dictates the terms of what Amazon is allowed to do? At the very least, the creator could admit to not reading over the terms of the deal.

[–]elliuotatar 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

They verbally promised him, according to his own letter. I'm guessing there is at least something in writing that says Amazon reserves the right to drop the price as needed

That may be. In which case he's fucked. And he's probably fucked anyway because he can't prove a verbal agreement was made, and even if he had a written agreement, Amazon can afford better lawyers. So any way you look at it he's fucked.

But if Amazon did make promises to him, and they broke them, then they're assholes, and yes, this is partially their fault.

[–]TheAnimus 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Amazon want to sell this for the highest price they can. The fact they have dropped the price so low is because Amazon is having problems selling them.

He could complain about the reviews, which might be making people less likely to buy one.

But he can't really get upset with them that no one is wanting to buy them, that's his fault for making a silly product.

[–]HuTheFinnMan 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

perhaps you should re-read that bit about how they promised not to undercut Coolest and their Kickstarter campaign, and they did so anyway.

The very situation where Coolest even had to sell the coolers on Amazon was NOT Amazons fault. Coolest needed Amazon to bail them out of the financial shithole they dug for themselves. Amazon did what they do with every product and priced it so that they could sell it, because nobody besides the suckers who already backed the campaign were going to pay $400 for a shitty, gimmicky cooler. What do you think should have happened? Amazon stick to trying to sell the coolers for $400 and not sell any? Leaving Coolest without the extra income they desperately needed to fulfil backer rewards? This is obviously bullshit blame shifting on the part of coolest because there is no way that getting "some" money from Amazon is worse than getting "no" money.

Backers were already pissed that the coolers were for sale on Amazon before they were delivered to the backers. The pricing wasn't the only part or even the most signiicant thing that backers were upset about, more like an additional slap in the face. But again this whole situation was caused by the Coolest campaigners ignorance/naivety and they are now backpeddling like a clown on a unicycle and trying to shift blame.

Business is hard, taking a product from concept to production is hard, but it damn sure takes a lot of the risk away when you crowdfund the money and just say "whoops, don't really know what I am doing here" when things go bad and you have no personal investment to lose and little to no consequences when you don't deliver. I don't have much sympathy for someone who wants to play startup and does it with no risk using other peoples money.

You took other peoples money and blew it all because things were harder than you thought. But oh well at least you tried! Really? Fuck that, people who do this stuff can rightfully get publicly shamed for it, that's their risk.

[–]elliuotatar -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

What do you think should have happened? Amazon stick to trying to sell the coolers for $400 and not sell any?

Yes, because they made a verbal contract to do so.

In the business world you can't just break contracts because it's no longer profitable for you to adhere to your agreements. If you think that's okay, well then, you should have no complaints about the Coolest cooler guy not delivering the coolers he promised to.

[–]HuTheFinnMan 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

In the business world you can't just break contracts

In the business world contracts are written down, you know so that it isn't just verbal "oh they promised me this" like this alleged situation. There is no way Amazon made a verbal contract with anyone, although the way Coolest have conducted the rest of their business it doesn't surprise me that they have no idea how contracts work. You're eating up this bullshit amazon blaming victim story pretty nicely though, hope you are enjoying your cooler.

[–]faijeya 56ポイント57ポイント  (22子コメント)

original verbal promise

verbal promise

verbal

[–]TheShadowCat 55ポイント56ポイント  (17子コメント)

If there's one thing I know about mega multinational corporations, is that they love to make handshake deals, without all the trouble of paperwork.

[–]InadequateUsername 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, verbal agreements aren't worth the paper they're printed on.

[–]northrupthebandgeek 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

More accurately: they are worth the paper they're printed on. ;)

[–]shalb 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

So verbal agreements are only worth as much as the paper they're printed on?

[–]AshleyPomeroy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Paper the printed on verbal worth only agreement so.

[–]tielknight 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

So basically it's Amazon's fault and they are the innocent little startup that didn't do nothing wrong?

[–]mrv3 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

Looks like they can't blame some company from China which can't defend itself and instead desperately start blocking Amazon

[–]UtterlyDisposable 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I wouldn't worry too much about companies in China that "can't defend themselves."

[–]skizmo 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

yup... kickstarter science :)

[–]phuchmileif 35ポイント36ポイント  (11子コメント)

I'm confused. How is Amazon forcing them to lower their price? I mean, it's not even their price, actuslly...it sounds like Amazon owns the inventory...

[–]danwin[S] 46ポイント47ポイント  (10子コメント)

This article paraphrases the email: https://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2016/10/90768-coolest-cooler-amazon-launchpad-worst-company-deal/

Grepper stated that Amazon “threatened to return their inventory if we wouldn’t agree to pay Amazon $120 per unit so they could sell the Coolest at $299”. He said their account manager threatened to “burn [them] to the ground” if they did not agree to the terms.

So I guess Coolest sold them to Amazon at $179? Amazon, realizing that these things aren't selling at all, is trying to offload them for $225. Meanwhile, Coolest is still selling them for $399 on its own site, coolest.com. Which means no one will buy it at that price until Amazon finishes selling off its stock.

[–]mrv3 60ポイント61ポイント  (4子コメント)

Amazon are realising it's fucking autumn and no one will be buying these things, sell off the stock that is costing then money to store is the only thing with doing. No one wanted them in summer, no one wants them now.

[–]InadequateUsername 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yeah, all companies like amazon care about is how much a product costs them per linear foot.

Coolers take up a lot of space.

[–]nubgrub 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

The Coolest Update says there are 5000 coolers remaining at Amazon. They are 4.486 Cubit Feet per unit. That's 22,430 Cubic Feet of storage and it all weighs 96.25 tons.

Add in the boxes and the storage needs jump higher. If you estimate 4 inches per each dimension (i.e. 2" inches for top and2" for bottom, etc), the space required is now 39,132 cubic feet. That's probably 4000-6000 square feet if they are not stacked more than three pallets high with a total height of less than 16 feet and depending on how efficient the pallets are in stacking the units.

I don't know how Amazon's warehousing works so it's hard to guess but for a typical warehouse you are looking at probably 8,000+ square feet once you figure in all the heights and pallet restrictions and fork lift pathways.

[–]digitalpizza 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

and fork lift pathways

Don't think they really have these, the robots travel under the shelves

[–]HuTheFinnMan 30ポイント31ポイント  (1子コメント)

“threatened to return their inventory

threatened to “burn [them] to the ground”

I believe one of those claims.

[–]MasterPsyduck 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

You would think someone, maybe before the product was even made should have you know... figured out the costs and then priced out the units then figured out consumer demand at the price level. I mean they did run a "successful" Kickstarter but it looks like a bunch of things went wrong due to things like poor planning.

[–]wolfman1911 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's kind of the downside of the rise of kickstarter. Yeah, people can now make products that they wouldn't have been able to before and deliver them to customers. On the other hand, anyone can put together a really slick pitch and make a lot of money on kickstarter, but that doesn't mean they know a single thing about manufacturing, shipping, or just running a business in general.

[–]digitalpizza 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

really slick pitch

was the coolest cooler really a slick pitch? looked like an utter pile of crap to me. What's wrong with people.

[–]TheTim 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

I'm not a backer but a friend sent me the full update they posted on Kickstarter. Paging (/u/danwin).

Q3 Update

Posted by Ryan Grepper (Creator)

For backers only

Hey Backers, Today I want to share the progress we’ve made over the last several months, as well as the challenges we continue to deal with. We keep marching forward through it all, and while not as quickly as we’d all like, it is still forward progress.

This update is rather long, but it will give you full context to where we are. After this, we’ll move to quarterly updates. We started this year with about 3/5 of our Backers waiting on their Reward, and now more than 3/5 of you have your Coolest Cooler. This is due in large part to the Guaranteed Shipping option programs we implemented and we're all so happy many more of you were able to enjoy this summer with your Coolest.

As mentioned in several previous updates, we continue seeking retail options to generate the needed profit to create and ship more remaining backer units. Though we’ve explained this previously, one question we still receive all the time is: “If you have coolers to sell in retail, why can’t you just ship me mine?”

So allow me to clear that up again.

Stated simply, we don’t have enough inventory or cash to ship to all remaining Backers. If we just shipped all the inventory we do have, then we’d run out and there would be thousands of backers who would never get one. That’s not cool.

So, instead, we need to sell some of the inventory at retail in order to generate the revenue needed to continue making and shipping even more Coolest Rewards for backers. If we don’t sell Coolests, we can’t make more Backer units. Make sense? Without retail sales, everything dries up —no inventory and thus no cash to make any more—and that would mean we go out of business and no further rewards get shipped. No one wants that.

That’s why retail sales are necessary.

Beginning this summer we've sold about 1,500 units, and placed the Coolest Cooler in over 110 stores. There is a large, untapped market for the Coolest, but unfortunately, we’ve been sideswiped by two issues recently and we are working on repairing the damage before we can ship more.

Here’s what we’re dealing with:

[–]TheTim 13ポイント14ポイント  (4子コメント)

1. Amazon Sideswipe

Many of our efforts in retail have been put on hold as we’ve been continually challenged by Amazon Launchpad. If you haven’t heard, despite their original verbal promise to not advertise or sell our Coolest Cooler below our retail price, Amazon is now selling the Coolest at $224.99. This is $175 OFF the retail price of $399. This is disastrous for us.

We shouldn’t be surprised, I suppose. Amazon Launchpad has been the worstcompany to deal with despite their claims to help startups. We wish we never got involved with them as they have significantly delayed and harmed our ability to serve you. To be clear, the sale we made last year to Amazon Launchpad helped generate the revenue to ship additional backers units this year, but what they’ve done since has ended up hurting us (and you).

Here’s what happened. First, they started selling our product two weeks before the agreed upon sell date without notifying us. We found out they started selling after the fact, and you probably remember this created a lot of angry comments and frustration from many Backers. Then last year, they started testing lower sale prices without our permission. (The Launchpad team had verbally promised that other than price matching they would not drop our price without our agreement.)

Earlier this year, they threatened to return their inventory if we wouldn’t agree to pay Amazon $120 per unit so they could sell the Coolest at $299. It made no sense. When we wouldn’t agree to their terms for a proposed return, our account manager at Amazon threatened they would “burn us to the ground.”

We can’t guess about Amazon’s intentions but the threats were real and their actions are hurting us. Maybe they thought having a firesale of their inventory would help us somehow? But unfortunately, at the crazy low price they are selling at, we can’t compete and we can’t generate the profit needed to make you more coolers. We currently can’t make and ship a Coolest Cooler for the price Amazon is selling them for, so until they readjust price or blow through their remaining 5k units, our sales will be much slower.

Here’s how Amazon Launchpad marketed themselves to us and why we got involved: (see their site).

How are Amazon Launchpad startups treated differently than other Amazon vendors?

We appreciate that startups have different needs than more established companies. Amazon Launchpad has been designed to meet these needs while giving you the marketing benefits typically reserved for our more established Amazon vendors, right from day one

2. Expense Sideswipe

This one really has really been frustrating, as well as expensive and time consuming.

At last count, we’ve had ~200 backers file complaints with the Oregon Department of Justice (DOJ). They usually say — without context to the Kickstarter terms of service, any of our updates, or any of our shipping policies — something like, “Hey, I bought a cooler two years ago from these people and they refuse to send it.” Obviously, if you’ve read our updates, you know that’s not the truth. We aren’t refusing to send Coolests - we can’t afford to and we lack inventory and resources to fulfill all Backer units. We’ve been very clear about our continual efforts in all our updates and are following Kickstarter terms of service.

Unfortunately, we’ve had to spend tremendous resources in legal fees and man hours to deal with these complaints. We’re a small team and we can deal with only so many issues. I'm sad to say that it’s these Backers who took needless action against us who are hurting the Backer community the most. Their legal complaints have cost us real money that should have been spent shipping Rewards.

Worse, they stomped on the very premise of Kickstarter. Kickstarter is not a store. It’s a way to bring creative projects to life. It is a platform that allows creators and backers to come together to fund a project, and a platform that allows the community to engage and support the project as it comes to life over time. You can't 'buy' anything on Kickstarter. You back a project, hope for the best, and wait for the process to complete. Yes, it’s taking us longer than we expected but we were the most massive project in Kickstarter history, our product was tremendously complex, and we’ve hit a lot of snags. And yet we work everyday to keep making this happen and we've never stopped working for you guys.

Still, we’ve been forced to spend countless hours responding to these complaints, not to mention preparing documents and answering all manner of questions from the DOJ to help educate them on the position we’re in as a company.

We’ve cooperated fully with the DOJ and they will see we’ve done nothing wrong. As you know, we ran out of the original funds a long, long time ago because this is a HUGE project and it cost more to make Coolests than we took in during the Kickstarter campaign. That’s the reason we are here, and why we are selling retail units to earn the money necessary to create and ship to our Backers. We’ve been surviving on retail sales, loans, and hard work for a long time and despite our continual updates about this some people just can’t understand that we don’t have unlimited resources and they decide to file these costly and baseless complaints.

For every impatient complaint filed, we lose more money and our very ability to serve Backers all becomes endangered. We know you want us to go faster, but we’re doing the best we can. Filing complaints doesn’t help us go faster - it hurts us and it prevents the whole community from getting what they want.

So far we've survived long past the time the Kickstarter funds ran out, and we’ve done nothing but work hard, put ourselves at risk to make this happen for you, and communicate about the journey openly and honestly. I'm certain other people would have managed this process differently, and still other people would have quit after the money ran out. We took loans, sought investors, came up with out-of-the-box solutions and retail options that were working to get you units. Everyday we keep working for you. I know most of you are rooting for us, but it's frustrating so many people don’t understand the struggle.

Moving Forward.

One of the best parts about backing a campaign is watching manufacturing challenges be met and overcome, and seeing a new product come to life. From day one of these updates, I’ve always been committed to sharing as much as possible of the development of the Coolest Cooler.

As I was looking back on the updates from the development stage, and re-reading some of the Coolest/Countdown weekly blog posts, I feel like we really accomplished the manufacturing updates part. You’ve watched us figure out the sourcing, logistics, manufacturing part. We’ve made the Coolest a reality and as you can see online tens of thousands enjoyed their Coolests this summer.

At this point we have the production issues solved, and there really isn’t any more to discuss on that front. It’s now all about the money. We’ll either raise additional investment capital, or we won’t. We’ll either sell more units more quickly each month, or we won’t. We'll of course still share major events with you as they happen, but this is why moving forward we'll be sharing updates on a quarterly timeframe.

This isn’t being done to ignore anyone, but rather so we can better serve you in the most meaningful way… By focusing our time on finding new ways to sell more units so we can make/ship more Coolest Rewards.

I hope you’ve enjoyed this first month of Fall and that you’ll keep your faith and patience with us as we work everyday to do what’s right and get you your Coolest Rewards. I’ll update you next quarter.

-Ryan

[–]RiffyDivine2 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

He is still trying to defend himself with the new KS rules well in reality he is still bound to the old rules that say he needs to deliver or refund. This guy is heading for the poor house.

[–]nubgrub 13ポイント14ポイント  (1子コメント)

their remaining 5k units

Good lord. Amazon has 5000 units of this cooler?! WHY WOULD THEY ANNOUNCE THAT?! So they can't deliver on their Kickstarter orders but Amazon bought over 5000 of them?! I know they were counting on getting the extra money from the Amazon sales to fund the KS units but still.

[–]elliuotatar 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

They had over 62,000 backers. 5000 coolers is a drop in the bucket. If they can hand over 5000 coolers to Amazon, and they immediately receive the funds necessary to allow them to manufacture 10,000 coolers, then that seems like a fantastic way to solve a significant chunk of their funding issue. But if Amazon then decides the coolers aren't selling fast enough and they mark the price down by half, or demand half the money back, then that screws Coolest, because now sales of their product through their own website disappear, and other distributors will refuse to sell the product at the higher price point because nobody will buy it if Amazon is selling them super cheap. And of course if Amazon demands half the money back then they are back to square one, except now those 5000 coolers are going to be delivered later with no benefit to the backers. And that money may also have already been spent on the next run.

[–]playing_the_angel 34ポイント35ポイント  (6子コメント)

"He said the consumer complaints filed with the department have cost the company legal fees and employee hours that could have been spent shipping coolers."- Well maybe he wouldn't have had all of those complaints if they were shipped in a timely manner to begin with!

[–]TheShadowCat 38ポイント39ポイント  (5子コメント)

I would love to know how that played out. "Hey Bob, why don't you stop working on the assembly line and figure out this complaint from the Department of Justice."

[–]bouchard 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

It would be more like "Sorry Bob, we can't pay you to work the assembly line this week because we need to pay Steve to work these legal issues." All that means, of course, is that they failed to have a budget for legal issues and they suck.

[–]TheAnimus 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

In fairness budgeting for legal stuff is hard.

Last year I had about 8 clients, seemingly identical. Average legal cost about $4,000 each. One cost about $15,000... Heck one wanted us to do some due diligence that was going to cost about $35,000. We politely declined to take them as a client.

We're just doing SaaS, this is just due diligence legal fun and games. Legal can be a huge black hole.

[–]wolfman1911 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well, I don't think that's just an issue with budgeting legal stuff. In the case of a situation like this, where you are a brand new startup with no previous business experience (I assume that's what these guys are like, at least), budgeting in general is hard. The only numbers you would have as far as the cost of anything amounts to window shopping before the campaign was started, and things might have changed drastically.

[–]NoirGreyson 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I know it's a joke, but the truth is, in a small company like this, a person actually does have to make choices like this. Do you split your precious few employees and have them work on different things (managing production, managing delivery, public relations, etc), but as a consequence deal with a particular crisis more slowly? Small companies don't have the bandwidth for everyone to have just one job, so everyone has to consider what is most important for them to be working on at any given time.

[–]WhySheHateMe 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is one of the kickstarters that turned me off from the whole concept.

I hear that a LOT of then original backers still don't have their coolers. That's so shady.

[–]suburban-dad 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

I was one of the 'lucky' ones (i guess) who actually received theirs. Not sure if they were delivered in order or not. Added an additional battery and paid roughly $240 for the whole thing.

Is it cool? Yes. But it's big and heavy, adding bottles of liquor and ice, and it quickly becomes cumbersome. We tried taking it out on the sailboat, and it was just a mess.

Great for beach, and your block-party.

Happy to answer any questions. edit: spelling and I accidentally a word.

[–]danwin[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

If Mr. Grepper digs himself out of this current project and launches another Kickstarter for something reasonably-cool sounding, would you feel confident enough to back it?

[–]suburban-dad 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hmm, good question.

The quality of the coolest cooler is good enough that I would feel comfortable supporting next project from a product standpoint.

Clearly, it took them a while to get the quality where it needed to be but I feel once they got the issues resolved, it was reflected in the product. I also think it helped they had near-constant updates showing the struggles in achieving the quality they wanted.

However...given all their struggles, it would take some convincing for me to understand that they have learned from their mistakes. They would have to clearly convey why this new project wouldn't suffer from the same mistakes as the Cooler.

Also, the price-point would have to be lower. While I can afford to write off $200, I also work damn hard for it and don't want to see most just lost. I can't help but think that I got really lucky when I received the cooler and 50/50 shot it could've gone the other way.

[–]SchalkeSpringer 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's really nice of you to offer to answer questions.

Have you actually used the blender yet? Curious if that blender was worth the cost for them since it seems to have issues in some shipped units and other people have mentioned that have never actually used it.

[–]suburban-dad 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have a few times....and it blends. My bar here is really low...you either crush my ice and make drinks, or you don't. So far it's been doing the job.

[–]Sanuku 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

The legal fees needed to counter the DOJ are a different problem and have “cost [them] real money that should have been spent shipping rewards.”

Let`s remember everyone that "those" rewards should have already been shipped by Feb. in 2015(!).

Now more then a year and a half(!) later claiming that they still haven`t shipped those that paid(!) for their Coolest Cooler their Units till today but too those that pledged enough to get a reward even those proofs more then enough that "we’ve done nothing wrong” is a lie and that Ryan Grepper is full of shit.

[–]GameofCheese 14ポイント15ポイント  (6子コメント)

I knew the second I heard about this product that it was wayyy too good to be true. That damn cooler has a freaking blender in it... blenders are known to break easily. You're doomed to have that or some other aspect break and then have only a partially working cooler when you could have just bought the components separately and replace them as they break at a much cheaper cost.

Throw in all this bullshit, and this product has become quite the nightmare.

[–]CallingYouOut2 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even if all the excess, gimmicky garbage was cool and worthwhile, this fucking things weights 39 pounds, THIRTY NINE POUNDS. Your average Coleman in a similar capacity weighs around 9 pounds. So before you've even put ice, and beer, and food in this thing it weighs 4 times what a normal cooker weighs. That was a non-starter for me.

[–]bigfashionmeme 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

It could have been a really cool product if it had a better execution, maybe just a cooler with only the battery and have other brands sell the speaker and blender or other attachments so nothing feels useless.

[–]khjohnso 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

I would actually buy a cooler with a battery and regular outlets that would awesome

[–]bigfashionmeme 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'll make a kickstarter, and the prototype will just have a car battery under some ice.

[–]DerNubenfrieken 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Why not buy a cooler and a power bank?

[–]bouchard 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

attributed further delivery delays to... costly consumer complaints.

It's not our fault that we're not getting you the product we promised; it's your fault for complaining that we haven't gotten you the product we promised.

[–]samglit 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

These guys are either incredibly incompetent, or full of shit (or both)

November 2015 - we have 25k backers left to ship! http://www.geekwire.com/2015/coolest-cooler-update-shutting-down-sales-via-coolest/

October 2016 - we have 2/5 of 60k backers left to ship! That's just 24k!

What have these idiots been doing for an entire year? Shipping 1 to 2k units, which according to them backers paid extra $60 to get prioritized, isn't much to show for a year's work and terrible PR.

[–]danwin[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's interesting...I thought they fulfilled as many as 10,000 folks in July 2016 who paid an additional $97 for expedited guaranteed delivery: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/coolest-cooler-21st-century-cooler-thats-actually/posts/1615842

I’m happy to announce that we successfully shipped all 10,400 Coolest Coolers as promised to those Backers who opted for the $97 option… just in time for the 4th of July weekend!

[–]samglit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

So they were lying either in November 2015, or lying in July 2016. Because the numbers from their own statements simply don't add up.

[–]skizmo 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

"We have done nothing wrong"

Yeah, but you also have done nothing right.

[–]CallingYouOut2 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Let me paraphrase one of their excuses:

‘We haven’t been able to ship out all the coolers because we had to spend extra time and money on lawyers responding to claims about us not shipping out all the coolers!’

[–]manickitty 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I find with many of these kickstarter projects that the makers are genuine, and can make a good product, but they have no experience with manufacturing, and all the hidden costs spring up and they are unready to deal with them, causing spiraling expenses. This is why I usually only back digital projects (even those have hidden costs) or experienced creators who have done this sort of thing before.

[–]Madness_Reigns 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Nowadays I only back some boardgames from the established makers or if it's something easy like a cool card game and the occasional art project. Even digital projects tend to severely underestimate the requirements of a project, overpromize and underdeliver if they deliver at all.

I'm still sour about The Mandate because that game was nearly my dream game as promised. They added so much project creep and ended up shitting the basket.

[–]manickitty 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Yeah I backed the Mandate too. But nowhere near as bad as Stomping Land. Oh well.

[–]Madness_Reigns 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Don't know that one.

[–]manickitty 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Basically kickstarted game that made it to early alpha, then dev up and ran off. It's dead now

[–]campy 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

I decided to do some research and found this glorious 5-star amazon "review":

Great New Product !! and WARNING to buyers of Amazon Coolest Coolers

Amazon Coolest Cooler buyers and lookers, I was a kick starter backer well over 2 years ago for 10 coolers. The product works great if you don't over tax it. Are you an idiot "millenial" giving it a "one star" rating? - and trying to drag a loaded 40lb cooler thru beach sand thinking it won't sink in the sand? Get real. The amazon unit price of 224.00 is mysteriously low, near Manufacturing cost before shipping, and I don't know where amazon got these coolers but suspect they are of some Grey Market or a Chinese counterfeit version. This in not a counterfeit purse that has no moving parts. Golf club fakes look identical, or better, so why not a plastic cooler? I know that the Coolest development team went thru testing variations of blender motors, batteries and speakers before approving each after a long beta test period. As a business owner that deals with the Asian manufacturing sector, I am confident that Coolest Cooler team did not secure a Patent application, in the short 24 month development period, to prevent the Chinese from remanufacturing the coolest cooler and selling to Amazon or the Grey Market. I am confident that when the Coolest Warranty department looks that the motors, batteries and speakers will be of inferior quality and not meet the final design standards..... and no where to replace or repair them with all warranty requests denied. I suspect warranty issues are being met for Amazon units - but not for long! I predict warranty issues will soon be denied on any Amazon coolest cooler, good luck suckers. As the saying goes "if it looks too good to be true - it probably is not true" It comes in 3-4 colors - why only orange from Amazon?

[–]nubgrub 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good lord. What a tool. Also, didn't the videos show wheeling this thing around in the sand with its large wheels?

[–]digitalpizza 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Calls people idiot "millenial"

Doesn't realise the product is so shitty and selling so poor that Amazon just wants rid of this disaster

[–]shauni55 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

I still always wonder, what would have happened if he had only gotten that $50k he originally asked for.

[–]Madness_Reigns 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's a problem with a lot of the high profile kickstarters. They end up having to build orders of magnitude more of the things that they originally planned and adding a bunch of stretch goals.

So while they could previously maybe get the thing done in their garage, after all they already had made a prototype. They ended up with a shit ton of "stretch goals", which means needing time to overhaul all their design and enough demand to warrant international manufacturing and all the PITA that entails.

[–]digitalpizza 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Best stretch goals would be

  1. It fucking ships
  2. It fucking ships on time

[–]senopahx 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

They've made a series of bad decisions but I feel like people have been continually going over the top trying to crucify these guys.

First they didn't do their research and set the price too low, not leaving themselves enough of a margin to cover budget overruns. Then there were issues with the blender which blew a large chunk of the money unnecessarily; they should have dropped this feature when it became an issue and offered refunds to anyone who wanted one.

I respect that they do seem to be trying to work things out instead of folding up shop but not getting this Amazon deal in writing? Stupid again.

I'm not sure if there's any case against them because these guys come across more as bumbling idiots than criminals... but I certainly wouldn't trust these guys with money ever again.


edit: forgot a word

[–]Cualax23 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

The stupid thing is that they failed to realize what Kickstater is. People who back on there are not looking for a gold platted fully developed product. The whole point of Kickstater is to put out a prototype or 1st generation product, gain some loyalty, and then iterate based on customer feedback. People on Kickstater know things won't be perfect and accept that. They went back and spent millions on R&D and could have just delivered and people would be singing their praises and pushing sales instead of bashing them in reviews and filing complaints.

In the end this company has horrible business skills.

[–]senopahx 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yes, that's what I was talking about when I brought up the blender. Rather than waste further funding on redesigning around the motor problem, they should have scrapped that feature.

*edit: also, Kickstater?

[–]penguindeskjob 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Kickstater is either a crowdfunding site for statists or a tater kicking fan site.

[–]Illustrox1 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't worry guys, he had plenty of time to off shore the millions he took out of the campaign.

[–]chernann 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

They have 2/5 of 60k backers left to ship or 24k. At a cost of $200 per cooler including shipping that is $4.8 million they are trying to raise from sales on their own site, which means they have to sell 24k coolers at $400. I don't see how that is a realistic possibility.

It looks like they already have the money from Amazon for the coolers Amazon is stuck with. 5k units left there, not moving at $225 since winter is coming, means the product is dead. Generously, if Amazon sells 5k units at full price per summer season, and they are able to do that on their site, it will take them 5 years to clear the backlog. Obviously this won't happen because there will always be the next new shiny toy.

There's no way they will get the $4.8 million in a reasonable amount of time without outside intervention. The plan just stinks of escapist reasoning. In hindsight it would never have worked.

[–]jcfiala 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's done nothing right either, from what I've read.

[–][削除されました]  (3子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]Hunter_Cumia 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    That dude looks like he would have all these under control, he even teach people how to crowd fund

    [–]werbliben 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What do you mean he teaches people how to crowdfund?

    [–]Hunter_Cumia 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

    from his first kickstarter

    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ryangrepper/the-coolest-cooler-with-blender-music-and-so-much?ref=profile_created

    at the end of the video 3:00 mark, he said hes training others how to kick start shit