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r/socialism regarding the firebombing of Republican headquarters (self.circlebroke)

Burnnoticelover が 投稿

so the republican headquarters of a small north carolina county was bombed recently. Fortunately, no one was hurt as the office was closed, but it's still a crime and an unpleasant symptom of rising political tensions in the US, right?

Well, not according to r/socialism.

https://www.np.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8uzfua

This entire comment thread is a shitshow.

One wonders how long the liberals would defend the property and free speech rights of fascists. Would they still gasp if this happened during a Trump re-election campaign after he spent 4 years deporting Muslims and Mexican-Americans?

"It's retalitation for something that hasn't happened yet, so it's justified"

some other enlightened proletarian soul comments

I was talking with a family member who is Democrat about this today. I asked them if they would be against a Jew firebombing a nazi headquarters just before the Nazis seized control, while it was still a republic. They said yes. I wish I was kidding. The ideology is too strong.

Because conservatives are nazis, right? Big Naziing nazis who hate everyone who isn't them.

and here's another one.

It's perfect in my opinion, no unnecessary deaths or anything, made a statement, can't imagine that going better.

If by "Statement" you mean "act of violence designed to scare people", then yes I suppose it is a statement.

In a different thread, someone else comments

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8v1j24

Whataboutism at its finest. "We can be as bad as we want, provided the other side is a little worse"

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8v91pl

anti fascism is self defense

Republicans are not fascists. These terms are not interchangeable. And even if they were, what kind of justification is "self defense in advance"?

I don't like Donald Trump, I'm not fond of where the republican party has gone, but firebombing a political building in a first world country should be unacceptable to everyone.

If my links are bad on this, let me know. I'm not very good with computers.

Edit: apparently Circlebroke has fallen to the Komsomol. Yo hecho un gran error

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[–]therepoststrangler 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Post has 1 upsagan, 300 comments. Dis gon be gud

[–]pompouspug 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Commie drama is best drama

[–]thechapattack 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yea I'm disgusted that people are taking action against people who have said clearly that they intend to deport my Hispanic family and my muslim friends. Clearly mass deportation isn't an act of aggression to liberals /s

Liberals are obsessed with a negative peace which is not in any way the same as Justice.

[–]vidurnaktis 14ポイント15ポイント  (7子コメント)

So where were you useless fucking liberals at when the US bombed that hospital, huh? The fash don't deserve any respect, their victims do.

[–]NotYetRegistered -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What kind of logic is that? Two wrongs don't make a right.

[–]coco-o -9ポイント-8ポイント  (5子コメント)

party is made with the purpose of participating in democracy is fascist

wat

[–]vidurnaktis 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Mussolini and Hitler's Fascists participated in "democracy" too.

[–]coco-o -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

The difference that they said outright they were anti democracy and made no effort to hide it. Until Ryan or Preibus comes out and says "Fuck democracy, we'll have Trump take over the government when he's elected and make him god emperor" they can't truly be called fascists.

In fact, to the contrary, much of the R party says they'll block him on much of his proposals if elected, which is democratic action at work.

[–]vidurnaktis 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

The conservatives that invited in Hitler also thought they could control him. The fact is they enabled the fascist elements of their party and are equally responsible for them.

[–]AutoModerator[M] -6ポイント-5ポイント  (0子コメント)

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[–]benjaminsmitten 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm seeing a lot arguing over moral justification. What I really want to see is someone try to reason how this was helpful in any way rather than playing right into the fear-mongering that has fueled Trump's ascension. This wasn't a blow against the establishment, it was fodder for right wing radio.

[–]twitchedawake 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

What I really want to see is someone try to reason how this was helpful in any way rather than playing right into the fear-mongering that has fueled Trump's ascension. This wasn't a blow against the establishment, it was fodder for right wing radio.

North Carolina in a swing state, it could easily determine who wins the election, Trump or Clinton. This campaign office is directly involved in getting Trump to win. Burning it down will destroy a lot of the tools and information they have to campaign, preventing Trump from winning.

While the same destructive capitalism will continue no matter who wins the election, if Trump wins there will be a huge spike in hate crimes just as there has been in the UK after Brexit. Preventing this is very important.

Though i am personally not entirely convinced this wasnt a Riechstag Fire.

[–]Burnnoticelover[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

No, this is going to help him a ton. That much is fact.

[–]everybodosoangry 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

For fucking real. I'm not opposed on principle to some kind of weird tactics if the benefits outweigh the costs, but they didn't actually do a single fucking thing. You've given the guys with the victim complexes something to feel victimized about, and in exchange for that you've gotten nothing. This kind of thing is literally a worse idea than doing nothing

[–]HisHighnessStannis -9ポイント-8ポイント  (6子コメント)

Tankies ruin everything. Fuck!

[–]aruraljuror 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

no you're thinking of liberals

[–]Beesfield -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Liberals and tankies.

[–]HisHighnessStannis -5ポイント-4ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wew lad

[–]StrongStyleSavior -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nah

[–]HisHighnessStannis -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Ya

[–]AutoModerator[M] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reddit has truly become quite lazy in nature. One worded posts are truly quite a disgrace. I'm sure for you, you just see it as easy karma - you come on every week or so and just think about how to contribute in the laziest way possible. I hate how in reddit it seems that some of the laziest, shortest comments seem to get upvoted and I truly believe it is a disgrace and shows that we are in darker days as a website. We almost lost ourself during the Pao debacle, we almost lost ourselves before that but Reddit just continues to grow stronger. I'm starting to believe it's just similar to facebook - too big to fall.

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[–]ProlierThanThou 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Poor GOP. I'm over here playing the world's tiniest violin in their honor.

[–]Stickmanville 27ポイント28ポイント  (31子コメント)

So it's alright for Republicans to viciously persecute LGBTQA+ people, poor people, black people, immigrants, support imperialistic wars abroad that have left countless dead, as well as poison any discussion about important issues such as global warming, but it's not alright to destroy a little private property in protest? Liberals... smh

[–]potatobac -3ポイント-2ポイント  (14子コメント)

Let me go look for liberals who think it's fine that republicans want to persecute minorities...

Oh wait, they don't exist. They fundamentally disagree with that. They also fundamentally disagree with firebombing. Strange, how the two things aren't equivalent in the slightest, and how being against firebombing, doesn't mean you're for persecution of minorites. You fucking idiot.

Anyway, go enjoy the highest standard of living in history as provided by capitalism and continue to bitch and moan about it forever. Can't wait til you guys succeed and we all get to undergo our own, 21st century great famine.

[–]devilapple 11ポイント12ポイント  (9子コメント)

A yes, the high standards of the Chinese and Indian sweatshop workers, truly they are the most free

[–]Stickmanville 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

WEW, this ideology is way too pure. I'm measuring at least a billion gigaZizeks.

[–]potatobac 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

No, go on, I'm really interested to hear how thinking firebombing is a bit too much = supporting the persecution of minorities. I'm sure you can make a very cogent and thoughtful argument.

[–]TheDarkLordOfViacom 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

You're defending people who are egging on hate crimes. That's how.

[–]potatobac -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm really not though. Just anti fire bombing.

[–]vidurnaktis 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

Liberals, for which property is more important than people.

[–]Aldawolf -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I don't exactly see how this helps minorities? Like I'm not gonna cry over this since no one got hurt, but going so far as to say this is actively helping minorities and not doing so is doing them a disservice is pushing it.

[–]vidurnaktis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't think anyone disagrees that individual terror is not the way to go, only an organised militant movement with a clear programme can bring about social change. But we're not going around and condemning people who, with no hope left, are lashing out at the system which oppresses them and their proxies. Firebombing this place is of no concern to me. I care more about the peoples' lives ruined by the right-wing then that "their" property is destroyed.

Reiterating, both me and the person I replied to are implying not that this event actively helps people but that decrying this does more harm than the action itself and shows that liberals, like other right-wingers, do not care about human lives except when it can be exploited to their ends.

[–]ilizabitch -12ポイント-11ポイント  (12子コメント)

"this person is worse than me so it justifies me doing something asshole-ish and illegal!!!!"

grow up

[–]thechapattack -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

So blacks sitting in white restaurants was illegal too. I don't give any semblance of a shit what is legal. What I care about is what's ethical

[–]everybodosoangry -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Arson: ethical

[–]thechapattack 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Giving money to a party who wants to deport my family: ethical

[–]everybodosoangry -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's possible to not do either of those

[–]Whys0_o 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

sniff sniff

Trashcan of...

[–]Rx16 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Legality is totally reflective of morality right? Labor and civil rights movements weren't won by being polite and following every law.

[–]Stickmanville 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

This person wants to use the state to violently oppress millions of citizens and foreigners including me so it justifies acting in self defense

FTFY

[–]_pi -4ポイント-3ポイント  (2子コメント)

That's not self defense. "This person" isn't elected yet, this person"doesn't have power and hasn't put any plans in motion, this person has some reprehensible political positions but so far they are just ideas. Yes it's despicable that a front runner is acting in this way and that the party leadership has consistently courted and bred the type of voter that he attracts and gerrymander the fuck out of them in order to cling to power. But that's not self defense, that's a pre-emptive strike. If you don't believe me I have some crude 3d models to show you.

[–]Stickmanville 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

A preemptive strike is self defense in this case.

[–]AutoModerator[M] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Reddit has truly become quite lazy in nature. One worded posts are truly quite a disgrace. I'm sure for you, you just see it as easy karma - you come on every week or so and just think about how to contribute in the laziest way possible. I hate how in reddit it seems that some of the laziest, shortest comments seem to get upvoted and I truly believe it is a disgrace and shows that we are in darker days as a website. We almost lost ourself during the Pao debacle, we almost lost ourselves before that but Reddit just continues to grow stronger. I'm starting to believe it's just similar to facebook - too big to fall.

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[–]acidroach420 35ポイント36ポイント  (5子コメント)

I don't really care about the firebombing or liberals raising money for rebuilding. But after screaming "the fascists are coming!" over and over this election, it's a bit weird to turn around and give them funds.

[–]BearlyBreathing 16ポイント17ポイント  (4子コメント)

The fascists are coming, but the fascists != the Republican party.

It's a bit weird and murky, I admit, because of the way the Trump primary coup happened. Trump himself is no doubt a kind of neo-fascist, wannabe dictator, but the same label doesn't really apply to people outside of his hardcore, white nationalist base. We have to appreciate that there's a shitload of ordinary Republicans who are just clueless as all hell and are basically in denial that there's a fascist dictator at the top of their ticket. Their brains are turned off. They literally cannot see Trump for what he is because it's simply too horrifying a reality to confront, and they are allowed not to confront it because they can hide away in the right-wing media echo chamber which, while hardly enthusiastic about Trump, is basically insulating them from the blunt reality of the situation.

The real bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is keeping the fash out of the White House. The last thing we want to do is encourage Republicans to circle the wagons around Trump by fire bombing their shit or even giving the passing impression that we approve of anything like that. A lot of the normal Republicans, while still deluded about Trump, are also pretty demoralized. The thing to do now is leave them be in their misery.

[–]Beesfield -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Actually, the vote rigging, violence, media control and collusion with terrorists is on the DNC side. Trump is just a populist.

[–]acidroach420 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I don't think you give the Republicans enough credit. Their motivations re:Trump are already calculated and political, why would such a fundraiser prevent them from circling the wagons? Also, putting aside semantics (I wouldn't call Trump a Fascist necessarily) do you think if that Republicans would do the same, if a Dem HQ was firebombed?

[–]OnlyRacistOnReddit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

do you think if that Republicans would do the same, if a Dem HQ was firebombed

When the local Obama office was vandalized my brothers and I went over to help clean it up, even though we are registered Republicans. You can be a decent person and have different political beliefs.

[–]BearlyBreathing 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

why would such a fundraiser prevent them from circling the wagons?

It wouldn't, necessarily, but it would certainly make them less inclined to do so since it helps blunt the charge that Democrats and Clinton approve.

They aren't likely to circle the wagons over some anarchist punks that both parties can agree to hate.

do you think if that Republicans would do the same, if a Dem HQ was firebombed?

I honestly don't know. Let's hope we don't have to find out.

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[–]pfods 2ポイント3ポイント  (69子コメント)

lot of 16 year old tankies in this thread.

[–]everybodosoangry -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Also every other thread on the metasphere

[–]EconOverlord 34ポイント35ポイント  (36子コメント)

Or anarchists of older age. It does no good to call every anti-capitalist "young" and "Stalin sympathizer." This is a sub to discuss, criticize or complain about Reddit trends, not to emulate them.

[–]CirqueDuFuder -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Plenty of tankies on reddit to complain about it.

[–]pfods 2ポイント3ポイント  (17子コメント)

and im complaining about annoying reddit tankies

[–]EconOverlord 21ポイント22ポイント  (16子コメント)

I think they have the right to be a little annoying, given the conditions on Reddit and the US which make it difficult to express their ideas without people spouting Cold-War era memes. Having the 100th guy tell me something about "human nature" can get a little annoying as well.

Also more than half the socialists in this thread are anarchists, from the look of it. If anything, I'd argue that Aruraljuror would be the "annoying" one, and rightfully so because people like me made it late to this thread.

[–]Kzraxus -5ポイント-4ポイント  (5子コメント)

Having the 100th guy tell me something about "human nature" can get a little annoying as well.

Having the 100th guy tell me the earth is a dirty sphere instead of ACCEPTING THE TRUTH OF FLAT EARTH also gets a little annoying.

/s

[–]Randydandy69 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

Some pretty stupid strawman creation over here. Capitalism is by its own definition, an exploitative and unequal system.

[–]StrongStyleSavior 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oh I love this. Thank you.

[–]aruraljuror 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

i'm not annoying :(

[–]everybodosoangry 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

lol come on, you know that isn't true

[–][削除されました]  (4子コメント)

[deleted]

    [–]queer_pinko -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

    You also realize that polls indicate that a majority people who lived in the Eastern Bloc have expressed that they would rather have Soviet-style communism over neoliberalism, right?

    [–]OscarGrey 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I came to a disturbing conclusion that a lot of Western socialists don't see victims of Warsaw Pact as trustworthy or a group of people that was oppressed at all. I've had reedit socialists outright tell me that NATO is oppressing Russia by denying them the right to their sphere of influence, or that Russia has the right to its pre-WW1 borders. "Anti-Imperialism" my ass.

    [–]aruraljuror 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

    those socialists are dinguses. replacing US imperialism with Russian imperialism is in no way an admirable goal.

    [–]Card-nal -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Having the 100th guy tell me something about "human nature" can get a little annoying as well.

    Yeah, better to just ignore it.

    [–]CirqueDuFuder -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It is true, everyone has the right to at least a little genocide apologia.

    [–]Sandflapjack 5ポイント6ポイント  (15子コメント)

    I dunno, valuable discussion is lost when you start getting shit in your inbox saying youre LITERALLY killing black people and LITERALLY causing gay people to die

    [–]EconOverlord 5ポイント6ポイント  (14子コメント)

    I'll concede that the other guy's being sumg as fuck; they beat me to this thread which I would have handled a bit less rash. Though to be fair, the argument could be made that the gestures of sorrow and the crowdfunding of this HQ after the firebombing, despite the violence the NC Republicans regularly perpetuate against the LGBTQ and POC communities, are a slap to the face for those killed in those communities.

    [–]Sandflapjack 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    I really do understand the problems yall have with it, but 13,000 is such little money in the grand sheme of things. The same people who donated to that have donated to the recent mosque that burnt down and have raised over fifty thousand dollars and its only half done.
    Its also amde out that the money is directly funding bullets right into black mens skulls, when in realty not all republicans are that hyper violent and mostly likley what all is left over from the repairs is probably going to coffe and doileys.
    Its, like, buying a snack wrap from mcdonalds shouldnt imply im ok with worker exploitation and animal cruelty.

    [–]EconOverlord 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    It's not an issue of whether the republicans themselves are committing the acts of violence; the pope vocally dehumanizing transgender people easily led to more violence against the Trans community, for example. Socialists also make note of Structural Violence, which is the deprivation of one's ability to survive based on policy decisions made under the current system or the system as a whole.

    For your last point, when we say "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism," we mean that regardless of our consumption habits, we'll never be able to alleviate the occurrence of worker exploitation that occurs because 1) business owners will always find ways to maximize profit, and 2) the workers are not in control over their workplace under capitalism. In other words, there's nothing wrong with ordering a snack wrap (especially since many don't have a choice or can't afford "greener" food), so long as you're mindful of the exploitation that occurs as a result of the current system to produce that wrap.

    [–]Sandflapjack 0ポイント1ポイント  (16子コメント)

    Were being brigaded.

    [–]pfods 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

    one mans brigade is another mans praxis

    [–]aruraljuror 24ポイント25ポイント  (14子コメント)

    "oh no people are challenging the liberal hegemony it must be a brigade, because our ideas are so unassailable there's surely no other explanation"

    [–]Card-nal -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    challenging the liberal hegemony

    lmao

    [–]AutoModerator[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Reddit has truly become quite lazy in nature. One worded posts are truly quite a disgrace. I'm sure for you, you just see it as easy karma - you come on every week or so and just think about how to contribute in the laziest way possible. I hate how in reddit it seems that some of the laziest, shortest comments seem to get upvoted and I truly believe it is a disgrace and shows that we are in darker days as a website. We almost lost ourself during the Pao debacle, we almost lost ourselves before that but Reddit just continues to grow stronger. I'm starting to believe it's just similar to facebook - too big to fall.

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    [–]Sandflapjack 9ポイント10ポイント  (11子コメント)

    Going in a thread and downvoting every non-tankie comment is kinda exactly a brigade.

    [–]Randydandy69 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    anti capitalist =/= tankie

    [–]AutoModerator[M] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I was only 16 years old. I loved communism so much, I had all the treatises and propaganda posters. I prayed to Marx every night to thank him for the dialectical materialism I had been given. "Workers of the world unite," I said, "you have nothing to lose but your chains." My boss hears me, and calls me a tankie. I knew he was jealous of my commitment to the revolution. I called him a reactionary fascist. He slaps me and sends me to work for a wage. I'm crying now, and I'm alienated from my labor. I lay in my bed, and I'm poor. A warmth is moving towards me. I feel something touch me. It's Karl Marx. I am so happy. He whispers in my ear, "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution." He grabs me with his powerful hands and places me on my knees. I am ready. I organize a labor union for Karl Marx. He throws reactionaries into the gulag. It hurts so much, but I do it for Marx. I take up arms against the bourgeoisie. I want to contribute to the revolution. He roars a mighty roar as he fills my life with class consciousness. My boss walks in. Karl looks him straight in the eye and says, "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." Marx leaves through the window. Workers of the world unite; you have nothing to lose but your chains.

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    [–]aruraljuror 18ポイント19ポイント  (8子コメント)

    that's not what a brigade is, and i'm still not convinced you know what a tankie is either

    [–]celocanth13 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    This thread got linked by SLS and /r/drama, it's being brigaded from both sides its just that one is a little stronger

    [–]everybodosoangry 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

    As far as I can tell, a tankie is a thing every tiresome jerk will argue about the definition of until everyone cool and normal leaves

    [–]aruraljuror 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    > cool and normal

    > reddit (metareddit at that)

    come on fam

    [–]pompouspug 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    at least one thing we can agree on

    [–]Sandflapjack 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I know im misuing tankie but its such a useful word and honestly its funny watching anarchists and non communist political ideologies get mad over being called a tankie. Its like when you go to a fedorlord and say "nice cowboy hat!"

    [–]EconOverlord 24ポイント25ポイント  (1子コメント)

    It's about as "useful" as "SJW", by that same token.

    [–]aruraljuror 12ポイント13ポイント  (13子コメント)

    i'm a 26 year old anarcho-posadist with chinese characteristics, thank you very much

    i do appreciate your smug liberal outlook and unwillingness to actually engage with ideas outside the incredibly small overton window in america though. which candidate that's going to oppress marginalized people do you plan on voting for in a few weeks?

    [–]Aldawolf 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Like, you know, I like the idea of many far left ideologies like Anarchism and Socialism and Communism. But the great class awakening isn't coming. So maybe it's best you work with the people who aren't going to shit all over minorities (In this case, Hillary Clinton) than the ones who's party and words pledge to do so (Mike Pence and Donald Trump) instead of remaining ideologically pure in an idea that will never be implemented in the foreseeable future. Sadly, not everyone's going to think like you or like your idea of a revolution, so maybe just swallow the pill and work within that Overton Window as best as you can. Or just be a badass internet anarchist, unless you actually do activist work. If you don't then lol

    [–]Randydandy69 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    So maybe it's best you work with the people who aren't going to shit all over minorities (In this case, Hillary Clinton)

    Ahahahahaha

    Remember. This is the same woman who referred to black people as super predators. She also carried hot sauce in her purse to desperately pander to black people.

    What a joke.

    [–]Gevatter 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Beginning in 1968, Posadas also became known for his theories concerning UFOs. If anything like UFOs existed, they could demonstrate the existence of agents able to master a very sophisticated technology, something that would be compatible with what in this planet was advocated by socialism. If UFOs existed, they could be allied in addressing some of the major problems in the earth.

    Source: Wikipedia

    [–]aruraljuror 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

    i'm not sure why you're quoting wikipedia at me, i'm quite familiar with Posadas and his work. that being said, you're really better off reading the primary source, the wiki really doesn't do it justice.

    https://www.marxists.org/archive/posadas/1968/06/flyingsaucers.html

    [–]Stickmanville 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

    His ideology is too pure.

    [–]vidurnaktis 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I'm getting at least 25,000 gigazizeks.

    [–]Sandflapjack 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

    actually engage with ideas outside the incredibly small overton window

    Engaging in ideas?!?! thats PUSSY LIBERAL speak, son. Real freedom fighters shoot people and set fire to things! Its only ok when we do it.

    [–]thechapattack 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Yes all violence isn't created equal. A victim of rape killing their rapist is not just as bad as the rapist. Unless you want to call mass deportation not an act of violence and if that's the case then there is nothing more to be said

    [–]jingleheimer_spliff 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

    PUSSY

    aaaand there we have it, no further questions your honor.

    [–]aruraljuror 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

    this is just word salad, with an unnecessary gendered slur in it at that

    [–]pfods 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    smug

    Is self-awareness bourgeois?

    [–]PM_me_your_networks 19ポイント20ポイント  (32子コメント)

    Please enlighten me on how participating in bourgeoisie elections is going to provide for an anti-capitalist platform? I think you might want to freshen up on the years 1776 and 1917.

    [–]oddy-nuff 48ポイント49ポイント  (19子コメント)

    Liberals: It's never okay to use violence in pursuit of political goals!

    Also liberals: I love the founding fathers

    [–]NotYetRegistered 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    No, the liberal ideology is that it is only okay to rise up in rebellion if the government violates your inalienable rights.

    [–]Whys0_o 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Liberals literally got their power by violent class struggle.

    [–]oddy-nuff 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Liberals now: Strumming a guitar and singing John Lennon songs

    Liberals in the 19th century: The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of tyrants

    [–]wwag1 -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Also liberals: golly these middle easterns are so oppressive, we gotta bomb some western democracy into them

    [–]everybodosoangry 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Those guys you made up are really taking a pounding!

    [–]Sandflapjack 3ポイント4ポイント  (13子コメント)

    What the fuck kind of liberals do you hang around because all the liberals I can see talk shit about the founding fathers constantly.
    Oh wait tankies will find any reason to shit on liberals I forgot.

    [–]oddy-nuff 32ポイント33ポイント  (12子コメント)

    Surely you jest? Everyone in Amerikkka LOVES the founding fathers. We carved their faces into indigenous land.

    The biggest Broadway musical in recent history was nothing but dick-sucking the founding fathers for ~2 hours

    [–]coco-o -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We carved their faces into indigenous land.

    Over 70 years ago? Commies mostly have their heads stuck in that time period though so I'm not surprised.

    [–]Sandflapjack 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

    Even a fake-ass leftist like seth mcfarlane knows that they all kept slaves and hated jews.

    [–]oddy-nuff 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

    1) PLEASE don't associate me at all with Seth McFarlane. If people start calling him a leftist I'll have to find a new political ideology

    2) sure, people know these things, I myself took the tour of Washington's home and the guide talked a lot about slaves. People still really do revere the founding fathers though. They've pretty much been canonized into the Amerikkkan religion at this point

    [–]Sandflapjack 19ポイント20ポイント  (3子コメント)

    I said fake-ass leftist you cock.
    But no, people really are critical of typically revered people now. Why else would native day be replacing columbus day in peoples minds? Leftists arent facists my dude.

    [–]oddy-nuff 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Yes, I hope it spreads farther. I hope people criticize more. A total criticism.

    Perhaps a...

    Ruthless criticism of all that exists?

    [–]Sandflapjack 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

    only the GLORIOUS REVOLUTION will fix everything

    [–]oddy-nuff 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I can't believe I converted you so quickly! Glad to have you with us, comrade! Here is your Mosin, now go kill some fascists

    [–][削除されました]  (11子コメント)

    [deleted]

      [–]AutoModerator[M] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Reddit has truly become quite lazy in nature. One worded posts are truly quite a disgrace. I'm sure for you, you just see it as easy karma - you come on every week or so and just think about how to contribute in the laziest way possible. I hate how in reddit it seems that some of the laziest, shortest comments seem to get upvoted and I truly believe it is a disgrace and shows that we are in darker days as a website. We almost lost ourself during the Pao debacle, we almost lost ourselves before that but Reddit just continues to grow stronger. I'm starting to believe it's just similar to facebook - too big to fall.

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      [–]EconOverlord 28ポイント29ポイント  (0子コメント)

      After 2 Red Scares and McCarthyism in the past century, introductory Economics classes that are based on neoliberal curriculum, and the fact that most people in the US don't actually know what socialism is, it's hard to say whether or not people desire anti-capitalism. Being able to bring up questions to the capitalist ideology requires some level of direct action because of how often it's silenced. You'll almost never see anyone who advocates for worker control over the means of production on a large news station.

      [–]aruraljuror 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

      all working class people want to be liberated from the dictatorship of capital, some of them just don't know it yet

      [–]pompouspug -4ポイント-3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      some of them just don't know it yet

      that is literally the same argument that people have used for the crusades

      EDIT: Like, you could have easily said "It would make sense for every working class person to want to abolish the capital" and I wouldn't say anything, but you seem to forget that some people would never change their opinion no matter what

      [–]Sandflapjack 11ポイント12ポイント  (3子コメント)

      Thats a really scary way to phrase that.

      [–][削除されました]  (31子コメント)

      [deleted]

        [–]Sandflapjack 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

        No comrade, you see the GLORIOUS REVOLUTION will solve all inequality.

        [–]aruraljuror 24ポイント25ポイント  (29子コメント)

        You don't gain workers rights and the abolishment of capitalism at the ballot box.

        [–]OscarGrey 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

        You don't gain worker rights by cooperating with idiotic Maoists and Stalinism. Socialism is good. Maoism/Stalinism is cancer and should be ostracized by other leftists.

        [–]aruraljuror 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

        as an anarchist, i have plenty of critiques of authoritarian communism. however, not a single person besides you in this thread has had the nuance to distinguish between different tendencies of socialism.

        [–]everybodosoangry 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

        You also don't gain those by agreeing with people who agree with you on the internet

        [–]atacama -3ポイント-2ポイント  (1子コメント)

        what does this mean

        [–]everybodosoangry 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Circlejerks on reddit do nothing to advance workers rights or the abolishment of capitalism

        [–]Mabonagram 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

        But maybe there is a third option beside violent struggle and political participation. Seems Dorothy Day and her followers have managed pretty well without resorting to violence.

        [–][削除されました]  (22子コメント)

        [deleted]

          [–]PM_me_your_networks 11ポイント12ポイント  (17子コメント)

          Care to explain how love and forgiveness helped the jews fight fascism in Nazi germany?

          [–]Sandflapjack 6ポイント7ポイント  (15子コメント)

          Violence is acceptable when no other option can be used and there is no system in place to protect the people. Also immediate self defense is an acceptable use of violence.

          [–]aruraljuror 13ポイント14ポイント  (14子コメント)

          what system is there in place to protect the black men being gunned down by police at an alarming rate? or the trans folk who are murdered and commit suicide at a preposterously disproportionately high rate? or the hispanic people that the GOP wants to disenfranchise and/or support? or the homeless people who are now being prevented from even sleeping on the street? or the poor working class people who become even more poor when they get sick because they can't afford healthcare?

          [–]Sandflapjack 5ポイント6ポイント  (13子コメント)

          Dont gishgallop me, son.
          Many leftist politicians and activists ARE trying to solve those problems because there ARE systems in place to prevent these actions, they just need refined and challanged. We are entering a more progressive era in the united states due to many great men, women, POC, and civil leaders and what youre trying to imply is undermining their actions. Do you think blacklivesmatter is trying to violently overthrow the government? no, theyre trying to spread awareness and enact laws to protect people.

          [–]Stickmanville 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

          Some people can't afford to sit around and hope that the bourgeoisie establishment will decide to throw them a bone or two, not while people are dying and lives are being ruined. If people won't give you your rights then you have to seize your rights, and if that requires violence then so be it.

          [–]everybodosoangry 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Some people can't afford to sit around and hope that the bourgeoisie establishment will decide to throw them a bone or two, not while people are dying and lives are being ruined.

          "And that's why I post on reddit about communism all day"

          [–]Sandflapjack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

          thats not the plan, the plan is to BECOME part of the estableshment and change it from within.

          [–]aruraljuror 15ポイント16ポイント  (9子コメント)

          please name one leftist politician/organization in the united states with any influence

          [–]BearlyBreathing -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

          It's a fair point, but it's going be tough building a viable leftism with tactics that are literally felonies and will widely get you labeled domestic terrorists (and not altogether unfairly).

          [–]aruraljuror 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

          every group of freedom fighters/rebels/self-determinists/etc. anywhere ever has been labeled terrorists. terrorism is a completely spooky word devoid of real meaning anyway

          [–]CrushCoalMakeDiamond 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

          Hillary Clinton. /s

          [–]oddy-nuff 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

          The Black Panthers!

          Oh wait they were all brutally murdered by the US government...

          [–]aruraljuror 9ポイント10ポイント  (3子コメント)

          propaganda of the deed my dude. this act accomplished nothing on its own, but hopefully it inspires other people to get off their ass and engage in direct action. i think we have to be wary of adventurism, but it's hard to be too critical of any sort of antifa/anti-capitalist action in a country with a left as disorganized and weak as america

          [–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

          [deleted]

            [–]AutoModerator[M] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Reddit has truly become quite lazy in nature. One worded posts are truly quite a disgrace. I'm sure for you, you just see it as easy karma - you come on every week or so and just think about how to contribute in the laziest way possible. I hate how in reddit it seems that some of the laziest, shortest comments seem to get upvoted and I truly believe it is a disgrace and shows that we are in darker days as a website. We almost lost ourself during the Pao debacle, we almost lost ourselves before that but Reddit just continues to grow stronger. I'm starting to believe it's just similar to facebook - too big to fall.

            I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

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