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Coming Out as Ex-Gay (self.Christianity)

TopHat888 が 投稿

Hi all, I was encouraged to share my story here.

I was raised in a Christian family. I was never abused or neglected and I had (and still have) an amazing family support system. During high school, because I didn't feel as 'manly' as other guys my age, after a long process of struggle and confusion, I thought that I was gay. I was attracted to guys I wanted to look like. I never physically acted out on my attractions, but I indulged in many fantasies. I never told a soul about these feelings because I was afraid of their reaction. I seriously doubt my parents would have kicked me out or something, because they really care about me. But I was mainly afraid of my reputation at my local church, since I volunteered there a lot. As I was finishing up college and starting my graduate degree, God led me on a journey where He showed me that I didn't have to be some certain way to 'be a man'. I didn't have to be a stereotypical male and like stereotypical things 'the other guys liked'. He showed me that it's fine for me to be sensitive and to cry easier than other guys. He taught me to care about other people's feelings. Most importantly, He showed me that I don't have to be obsessed with a girl's physical looks in order to 'be a man', because I've never really been attracted to the way a girl looks on the outside, and this confused me when I constantly heard men in the church joking about this sort of thing. But God showed me that I don't have to be this way to be a complete man. This is all very condensed, as this happened over a span of several years. It has not been an easy process at all, but this year, I finally grasped fully what God wants me to learn about myself. Christians and society in general try to hard to put genders into 'behavioral boxes', trying to dictate that men should do and not do certain things and women should do and not do certain things. This has been extremely dangerous for people. We need to change this. In conclusion, I'm not trying to force my views on other people. I just wanted to share my story. I never went through repairative\conversion therapy; I think this is a very dangerous practice that needs to be stopped. My journey isn't about going from 'gay to straight', it's about becoming my full self, becoming who God intended me to be from the start.

I hope this provides encoragement to someone. Feel free to ask any questions you have.

Join us at /r/ExHomosexual!

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[–]thraxicle[🍰] 62ポイント63ポイント  (26子コメント)

This:

I was attracted to guys I wanted to look like. I never physically acted out on my attractions, but I indulged in many fantasies.

and this:

Most importantly, He showed me that I don't have to be obsessed with a girl's physical looks in order to 'be a man', because I've never really been attracted to the way a girl looks on the outside, and this confused me when I constantly heard men in the church joking about this sort of thing.

would make me inclined to think myself as gay. It's not important what you call yourself, it's great that you're no longer boxed in into a constricting definition of what a "man" should be. But homosexuals cover a range from more feminine men to masculine men, with range of interests from dolls to trucks.

[–]Christian (Chi Rho)kineticat 41ポイント42ポイント  (2子コメント)

And there are heterosexual men who sound effeminate and have more "gay" interests but are straighter than the Empire State Building. The Property Brothers on HGTV have girlfriends, though a cursory glance would make you think they were gay. This isn't the Biblical way of looking at people. (1 Sam. 16:6-7)

[–]thraxicle[🍰] 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

Certainly. I was replying to his post which seems to suggest that in addition to being stimulated by men, part of what made him classify himself as gay was an idea that there was a definition of what a man is, and how what he considers effeminacy (or at the very least non-masculine) was more aligned to how he perceived himself.

*Edit: "mean" to "man"

[–]Christian (Chi Rho)kineticat 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well I don't believe there is such a mean. You can be straight and hate sports, or you can be gay and adore NFL football.

Some Christians continue to identify as gay despite not engaging in same-sex activity, since there is a sense of community around the classification. Indeed- when people like Dr. Wesley Hill hear about tragedies like the murder of Matthew Shepherd or the Orlando Pulse shooting, they grieve with the LGBT community.

[–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (22子コメント)

I understand. Ex-homosexuals cover a wide range too :)

[–]AtheistMwamWWilson 10ポイント11ポイント  (21子コメント)

what kind of a range is that?

[–]TopHat888[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (20子コメント)

Ex-gays can come from all walks of life and can be 'feminine' or 'masculine'.

[–]princemyshkin 7ポイント8ポイント  (19子コメント)

Is there such a thing as ex-straights? I only ask because, to be frank, it really sounds as though you're not actually straight...

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSkirtsmoother -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

It's bull. So, if a straight guy comes out as gay, he was gay all along, and if a gay guy comes out as straight, he was never gay to begin with?

Also, what happened to knyaz?

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)thesilvertongue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

When people come out as gay, they're not saying they used to be straight but then they turned gay, they are saying they were gay all along even in cases where they felt pressure to pretend to be straight to fit in.

[–]Christianthemsc190 4ポイント5ポイント  (11子コメント)

"Straight" guys come out as gay all the time. It's called "coming out." National Coming Out day was just like last week.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSkirtsmoother 4ポイント5ポイント  (10子コメント)

I know, I'm just tired of people thinking that sexual orientations and preferences can never change. They definitely can.

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)thesilvertongue [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

There is no scientific evidence that sexual orientations can change.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSkirtsmoother [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Except when, you know, they do. People turn gay after decades of happy, heterosexual relationships. Opposite thing can also happen as well.

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (6子コメント)

Natural fluctuations (that can't be controlled) are different than pray-the-gay-away.

[–]Eastern OrthodoxSkirtsmoother [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

I think that both sides are wrong when it comes to this. Not every gay person is born that way, but some of them are, in fact, born gay. I think that there is a significant cultural and psychological element to it as well as biological.

My point is, people change, we should accept that and not to pretend like homosexuality is unchangeable, when we've clearly seen the opposite.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

Yes, I think people can decide to change from straight to gay if they want.

[–]princemyshkin [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Can you provide an example of someone that conscientiously decided to be gay, against their natural inclinations? (Similar to what seems to be happening with you)

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

No, but there might be someone out there who hasn't spoken yet.

[–]Protestant?ZordonFreemanI[🍰] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

nonscientific bs

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)thesilvertongue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What evidence do you have?

[–]Atheistjoeyjojoeshabadoo 29ポイント30ポイント  (48子コメント)

So I'm a little confused. Are you now not gay? What you wrote makes it sound like you're still gay but just accepted it and not going to act on it at all. If you're not gay then are you going to have a relationship with a woman eventually? Get married? Just curious.

[–]TopHat888[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (47子コメント)

God has taken away my same-sex attractions, so I'm 'not gay' now. But I didn't just 'become straight', I found my identity in Christ.

Yes, I fully intend to date but only the woman I am going to marry. I know that God has a future wife for me in His timing. :)

[–]AtheistIRBMe 15ポイント16ポイント  (40子コメント)

I fully intend to date but only the woman I am going to marry.

Even though you have no physical attraction to women?

[–]Quakermacoafi 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm a married asexual. What's your point?

When OP says below that he has some physical attraction to women but not in the stereotypical sense, he could mean he is capable of appreciating aesthetic beauty. Just as a bouquet can be pretty, so can a person. That doesn't mean you lust after the person any more than you lust after the bouquet.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 13ポイント14ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm a married asexual

OP didn't claim to be asexual.

[–]Christian DeistKhalbrae 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He is approaching his idea of marriage though as if he were an asexual.

[–]Quakermacoafi [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

But your claim is that physical attraction is a prerequisite for love/marriage/etc.

[–]TopHat888[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

I have some physical attraction to women, just not in the stereotypical sense. I think we need to stop believing the lie that we have to be totally turned on by someone's physical appearance in order to fall in love with them. This is a slippery slope because people age and bodies change. Personalities don't. :)

[–]AtheistMwamWWilson 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

personalities most definitely do change. people fall out of love. relationships are hard.

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, they can change. I spoke in generality when I shouldn't have.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

I have some physical attraction to women, just not in the stereotypical sense.

Then in what sense?

I think we need to stop believing the lie that we have to be totally turned on by someone's physical appearance in order to fall in love with them.

Have you actually studied the role of physical attraction in a relationship within the context of psychology? While it may not be necessary to be physically attracted to somebody in order to fall in love with them, I think you either understate or ignore the importance of the role of physical attraction in relationships.

This is a slippery slope because people age and bodies change.

And people in long term relationships often find themselves still physically attracted to their partners despite this.

Personalities don't.

Personalities certainly do change.

[–]TopHat888[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I'm not attracted to what society calls beautiful, like emphasizing certain body parts and stuff. I'm attracted to the whole person.

Everybody's different. For me, physical attraction isn't number one.

I guess you're right on the last point.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

I'm attracted to the whole person.

But you've already hinted in this thread that you're not attracted physically to women, only emotionally attracted, which would suggest that you're not in fact attracted to the whole person, though it's difficult to know since you add confusing qualifiers like "in a stereotypical way".

[–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm not never attracted physically to women, just not primarily. To put it bluntly, I don't ogle women's bodies and I never have.

[–]Christian (Cross)tkc80 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

But are you to men?

When I was in high school, I told myself this. Hell, there are women in my life that I love, or have loved. I was never physically attracted to them, but I loved them.

And I would marry them, sure, but I would never have sex with them, because I'm gay. Took a few years to come to terms with that, and now I'm with the man I am going to marry.

I've always believed in the idea of doing what you feel most comfortable doing, but don't force yourself into a new box because you didn't want to be cramped up in the old one.

[–]Anjelus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Dude why are you giving him such a hard time on this just because you don't understand it? His point is pretty basic and true-to-life. Listen to what he's saying and the insight into human sexuality that he's talking about --- he's specifically undermining the false duality of "physical attraction" that your questioning presupposes. Listen and think more.

[–]Cledus_Snow -3ポイント-2ポイント  (25子コメント)

physical attraction is at best a tertiary element of marriage.

[–]Christianthemsc190 8ポイント9ポイント  (3子コメント)

It's kinda unfortunate that the root of the words thatbwe use to talk about these issue is "-sexual" (e.g. heterosexual and homosexual) -- and sorta a reason why "gay" and "straight" may be better in certain contexts. Because pair-bonding in marriage, while physical attraction is a part of it, which can only happen between two people of a compatible orientation, includes sexual attraction -- but also includes romantic and emotional attraction. To be gay means to not even have that romantic attraction.

To give an example, two of my (male) roommates in college were bisexual. They hooked up with both men and women. But one is homoromantic and the other is heteroromantic. The former, despite being attracted to women has no desire to go on dates with them or marry one, and will probably end up with a man. The opposite is true for the other one.

This is all to say that orientation is bigger than what makes your genital tingle. Some days my partner doesn't make my genitals tingle -- but I still love him. The other sex can get neither out of me.

[–]Cledus_Snow -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I know men who struggle with SSA who won't identify as "gay" because they dont want to be lumped into the LGBT community that is often viewed as a monolithic, permissive, affirming and promiscuous, that simply, to them to be gay is to have homosexual sex

[–]Christianthemsc190 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's kinda a bad reason, if simply helping perpetuate a lie about the LGBT community is the reason.

But what you call it is rather tangential to my point. I'm mainly challenging the idea that orientation and compatibility just has to do with genitals.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 2ポイント3ポイント  (20子コメント)

physical attraction is at best a tertiary element of marriage.

Citation?

[–]MeshesAreConfusing 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think people are misunderstanding physical attraction. If you're in love with someone, you see them as attractive, even if technically you know they may not be. In that sense, beauty is indeed not that important in a marriage because beauty is in the eye of the beholder. But if you're incapable of feeling attracted to them at all, then you're not romantically interested in them. You're just... Friends.

[–]Cledus_Snow -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

From where? I don't have a citation, but I know that basing relationships, especially something as large and important as covenantal marriage shouldn't be put on something so fleeting as physical attraction

[–]AtheistIRBMe 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

From where?

A paper on the role of physical attraction in marriage published in a reputable journal of psychology would be a good start.

[–]Cledus_Snow 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Oh, well I don't have any real experience with those, but here's an article/interview with Piper that was helpful when I was in college and struggling with the fact that there was an awesome girl I really liked but she wasn't a babe so I was hesitant about asking her on a date. http://www.desiringgod.org/interviews/is-it-biblical-to-think-that-physical-attraction-must-be-a-component-of-a-godly-marriage

[–]AtheistIRBMe 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

That article seems to be answering the question, "Is it biblical to think that physical attraction must be a component of a godly marriage?"

I'm not really interested in whether or not it's "Biblical" or in "godly marriages".

[–]Cledus_Snow 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

Then why did you ask?

That article isn't the best articulated, btw, but was easily accessible because 20 year old me bookmarked it and it's still there 7 years later

[–]Anjelus [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Citation: Elderly couples who care for each other's infirmities patiently without fucking. This isn't rocket science.

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

There's an sti crisis in retirement homes, because old people fuck like rabbits.

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Ding! Ding!

[–]Christian (Cross)captive_conscience -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

"Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting; but a woman who fears the Lord is to be praised." -Proverbs 31:30

If you read all the verses from 31:10-31, not once is physical beauty given as a necessity for a wife. I am physically attracted to my wife, and I know difficulties would arise if I wasn't, but our relationship isn't built on that. I tell her she's beautiful even when she just rolled out of bed with her hair doing funky things because I believe she's beautiful for far more than just her looks. And in 40 years, I'll still be saying that even though both of our physical looks will have degraded substantially.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

I was thinking of something more along the lines of a scientific paper published in a reputable journal of psychology rather than religious holy books. Or better yet, a meta-study.

[–]Christian (Cross)captive_conscience -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

How about you quote one of those "reputable" sources and studies that says that physical attraction is a primary element of marriage?

Edit: You know what, here's an article that quotes studies without citations, that supports the idea that physical attraction isn't that important: http://nypost.com/2014/02/02/for-real-long-lasting-love-the-no-1-trait-to-seek-is-niceness-expert/

[–]AtheistIRBMe -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I will should I feel it necessary to make that claim.

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Old age.

[–]AtheistIRBMe 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

Old age.

Are you suggesting that people when they grow into old age are no longer physically attracted to each other? And that these two words all that's necessary to describe the role of physical attraction in relationships?

[–]StrengthofthePack 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

This sounds like a potential disaster if you're not out there looking to make a normal connection with a girl. You may in fact end up leading the poor girl on. It sounds like you need to take a lot more time to reflect on this before having someone significant in your life. Either way, I hope you find peace within yourself.

[–]Christian DeistKhalbrae 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, hopefully you find the right person. Just marry for personality and be sure to be 100% honest with them about those feelings. Anybody that would run away just because you don't have a physical attraction isn't worth the effort. All marriages should be built off bonds of trust and satisfying emotional needs, because if you have each others backs at least you will know you have a rock to catch you before the bottom (God is the Rock at the bottom that helps you climb back up, your spouse can help before that point if you're going through turbulent times).

I may not believe "ex-gay" is really a thing but this is just general advice for any marriage at all. Be open and honest from the start. If you lie just for the sake of having a marriage you'll just wind up being hurt and even worse, bringing somebody with you. So don't go in with the intent of marrying the first person you date, you must find somebody that accepts you, the whole you as you are.

I wish you all the best friend.

Edit:

Who knows, maybe you will find the female equivalent of yourself and find a very special lady who does not find any attraction in men?

[–]TopHat888[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good advice! Your last point is interesting because I have met couples containing 'feminine' men and 'masculine' women. For me, physical attraction to women is there, but it's not number one and it's not stereotypical.

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)thesilvertongue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So what gender are you sexually attracted to?

[–]holyghostparty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

So, you will date only women, correct? Because now... you have no attraction to men now, correct?

[–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb 30ポイント31ポイント  (16子コメント)

Are you very sure now though that you are sexually attracted to girls and not at all to guys? If that's not the case then you could be anything from gay to bisexual to asexual. There's nothing wrong with being any given sexually, buy thinking you're something that you're not is unhealthy. If I was attracted to guys before and now I wasn't then I'd have some alarms going off in my head to try and further figure out why my sexually is being weird.

[–]Unitarian UniversalistMircabre [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Unitarians getting drawn in like moths to a flame

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (13子コメント)

Yes, I'm very sure that God has changed my desires. As I mentioned, I had to come to grips with the fact that I will never be totally attracted to the physical look of a girl, but that's okay.

[–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb 22ポイント23ポイント  (12子コメント)

I'm gonna be real with you, but you can take what I say with a grain of salt.

You should totally be more skeptical of your sexuality. Not because I think that you're probably wrong or anything, you know your sexuality better than I do and so I don't think that at all, but because your dealings with your sexuality can at least raise eyebrows and you need to understand how seriously unhealthy it can be to not understand your sexuality.

If you think that you're straight, then I support that. But if you ever are starting to run into doubts with this again, if you ever are having problems with how attracted you are to girls, or how much you care about your romantic relationships, if your relationships tend towards depression or other mental health issues, do not take it for granted that you are straight, do not assume that the only problem is that you aren't trying hard enough or any of those things, do not rule out the possibility that you were wrong after all.

Think of it this way: you're straight right now, right? But before you were convinced you were gay. If you had been unshakably confident that you were gay before when you really weren't, think of how that'd affect your mental health. Wouldn't want that to happen in the other direction, so if you see symptoms that point towards the possibility that you are not heterosexual, don't work off the presumption that you are.

[–]MeshesAreConfusing 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

I sincerely hope OP will follow this advice but it seems to me he brainwashed himself into thinking he's no longer gay somehow? Even though he is?

[–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's how it looks to me but it'd be counterproductively presumptuous to assume I know OP's sexuality better than his own and being so insistent on it, so I'm just giving him advice from my perspective and stressing that I'm not objective.

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)thesilvertongue [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

OP presumes that they know about sexuality more than every single scholar who has written about it in the past several decades.

[–]TopHat888[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (8子コメント)

I see where you're coming from. I've accepted that I'm never going to be primarily attracted to physical qualities and that's okay.

[–]Christianthemsc190 12ポイント13ポイント  (4子コメント)

This is common for "ex-gay" folks, that it's not really a changing of sexual orientation from gay to straight -- but a diminishing of all sexual attraction in general. And although these terms are amorphous, it's a move towards asexuality or demisexuality rather than an actual flip to (or at least accompanying a minor movement towards) heterosexuality. What do you think of that assessment?

[–]TopHat888[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

My sexual attraction has not diminished, but changed.

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Okay...it's just been tough piecing your narrative together.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Sorry! Sometimes I confuse myself trying to answer multiple people at once lol

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm just now wondering if you're being honest with yourself if you're telling different people different things.

[–]Episcopalian (Anglican)transmorgrifier 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you ever did marry a woman, then how could you reconcile pleasing her sexually when you have no physical attraction for her? (Yes, before I get downvoted, that's not the most important thing, but she will sense how you feel, and that's something to consider).

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I doubt I'll have zero physical attraction for her.

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Rock on dude, I accept that you're as a whole human being and there's more to you than obsessing over your sexuality.

[–]Christian (Saint Clement's Cross)twinkiesmom1 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

I urge you to be forthright about your desires with your future wife and have an honest discussion about sexual expectations before you marry. There are plenty of miserable people on r/deadbedrooms...don't need to to add 2 more.

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

Definitely. But it's not that I'm totally not attracted to women at all. I'm looking forward to marital pleasure :)

[–]Christian (Saint Clement's Cross)twinkiesmom1 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

You need to be honest about your libido given the level of attractiveness women hold for you. You could end up making a high libido woman very unhappy....and this will be a woman unable to seek fulfillment elsewhere assuming you'd be marrying a believer.

[–]United Church of Christprobablyjonah 15ポイント16ポイント  (7子コメント)

Thank you for condemning conversion therapy. It is torture. I believe God can do all things, so I believe that your natural desires may have changed, and I respect your beliefs on this matter. However, as a gay woman, I don't believe my natural desires are wrong. I believe I am fearfully and wonderfully made, and although I have prayed about my sexuality extensively, I don't feel called to deny this part of myself.

Even if this gets downvoted, I just want to say: If any fellow queer Christians out there have read this and are experiencing any internalized homophobia or self-hatred, please don't hesitate to reach out. Homophobia is a very real and terrible part of our society, and it's often hard for queer people to move past that. If this has brought up any bad memories/feelings, please know that I am so willing to talk to any of you about this. Peace be with you.

[–]TopHat888[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Thanks for being honest. Everybody has their own journey to follow and God loves everyone. He wants everyone to grow as close to Him as possible.

[–]Christian (Cross)Anoian -4ポイント-3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Im gonna be hated for this. But the bible surely says that everyones natural desires are wrong and that we should kill our natural self with the cross and take on the spirit of god. We are not created to be saved and still live in our sin. He called us out of our sin. He totally loves you, but that doesnt make wrong less wrong and natural desires is wrong. I have problems with lust, pride and being mad about stuff, to name a few, those are my natural desires or an outcome of them and they are wrong. I have to bring my natural self to the cross as much as you have to, if you want to be one with god. This is a process and god loves us, but to deny this doesnt help you at all.

Many men are fighting with pornography as much as you would be fighting with being gay and its draining and all that, i understand, but jesus died on the cross and he was raised and gave us the holy spirit to triumph over sin with a smile in our face.

If our nature isnt wrong, then why did jesus die on a cross? Arent we without sin then? This makes no sense.

[–]Made you look!21stPilot [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

But the bible surely says that everyones natural desires are wrong and that we should kill our natural self with the cross and take on the spirit of god.

You and /u/probablyjonah are using two different definitions for 'natural desires'.

By that, she means her God-given, 'default' sexuality. It's the way she's mentally wired. Her sexuality stands on its own, it isn't as if she started straight and was then changed.

On the other hand, you're using 'natural desires' as a synonym for sinful desires. Which, that's an easy confusion to make, as 'natural desires' is very much a Bible-ish phrase, /u/probablyjonah could have worded her comment better.

Does that make sense?

[–]United Church of Christprobablyjonah [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Thank you, /u/21stPilot. I should have phrased it differently, but yes--I believe God created me to be queer, and I sincerely believe that God loves my queerness. I understand that many people in this thread feel differently. Like I said, I have prayed about this extensively, and I truly believe that although there are many things I should change about myself in order to better serve and honor God, my sexuality is not one of them.

[–]Christian (Cross)Anoian [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

its probably true that she has not started straight and then turned gay (i dont know), but its still a natural desire. We, as people are at our core sinful and we should deny our self, as the bible teaches, which is not as bad as it sounds, its hard, but it gives freedom. This could also mean denying our sexuality. There is a god who sets free, its not like im demanding someone to come up with a solution by themself. Where the spirit is, there is freedom. Im condemning noone by any means, everyone has sin, including me, who am i to say im better than anyone, but still natural desires, as she means it, is wrong.

[–]enterence 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

Some of the most manly men I know are gay. So.....

[–]TopHat888[S] 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand, and that's their journey. My journey was about finding my identity in Christ and not in subjective gender standards or in other men I wanted to look like. :)

[–]Roman CatholicThe_Geb 11ポイント12ポイント  (5子コメント)

There's no such thing as being "ex-gay". It's fine if you've decided to be celibate or realized you're bi-sexual, or romantically attracted to women while only physically attracted to men, but to say you can be an ex-homosexual is ridiculous and seems like an attempt at outright invalidating LGBT-Q identities.

[–]TopHat888[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone. I'm just telling my true story. :)

[–]Roman CatholicThe_Geb 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

The thing is your anecdote doesn't line up with what we're coming to objectively understand about sexuality through science. You're spinning your experience in a particular way that is pretty offensive.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm sorry it comes off as offensive; it's not my intention.

[–]Southern BaptistAlexlincoln2 -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Either you are trying to invalidate his identity, or the identities of lgbt individuals are so fragile any person who doesn't follow the exact mainstream thinking somehow shatters said thinking. Both are ridiculous

[–]Roman CatholicThe_Geb 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Science is more and more clearly showing that sexuality and gender identity are spectra that are determined by some combination of epigenetics and hormones in the womb. It's not something you can change or choose. He's saying he's changed/chosen to not be gay. I can't change the fact I'm straight and "choose" to be gay.

[–]Mesoph 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tread carefully here, friend. My step-father had the same mentality you are expressing now, but it turns out he tricked himself, using clever logic and word play, and ended up putting himself in a darker place than where he had started.

You see, God is a god of truth, there are no lies in Him. If what you say is true, then good, you've realized you were never gay to begin with, only envious of the seeming masculinity of others which expressed itself in sexual fantasy. If you are wrong, and you are lying to yourself and to others, then this is not going to go away.

God will let you be purified until you contain the whole truth and nothing else. That means allowing your sexual repression (if that's what this is) to seek darker and darker ways to express itself. It may take years, it took 9 for my step father, but it will eventually explode and you will become something you will hate. If you're married then, you are going to hurt your wife very deeply.

My step father said the same things, and him and my mom were serious Christians, doing ministry together (prison ministry and such). It turns out he was never able to give my mom the things a women needs from a man in marriage and he eventually hurt her in a bad, bad way. It is important that you continue to introspect to make sure what you are doing is the truth because it's not just your life that will be affected.

I'm a gay man myself and I did the whole pray the gay away thing for a good four years. I even told people I was ex-gay. However, I remained celibate because I would never do what my step-father did to my mother. A straight woman who is going to give you her whole life deserves the fullness of intimacy that only a straight/bi man can give her.

After much prayer, service, and humility, it turned out that God did not want me the way I felt pressured by the church to be. He had a different plan and purpose for me. The idea that I had been taught growing up, that homosexuality (in it's modern form) keeps one from drawing near to God, was actually keeping me from drawing near to God.

Just make sure you are uniting yourself with the truth, however upsetting it may be, and not just painting yourself a pretty little picture of what you think you should be.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I'm really sorry about your experiences; I wish no one's story turned out like your stepfather's. I don't believe in praying the gay away; I don't think that works at all. My journey was about surrender to Jesus and He did the changing in me.

[–]RIPmurphy 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

If you truly believe your faith has brought you to this point then god bless.

[–]Christianthemsc190 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

How would your story have been different if you never had broken perspectives on what it means to be a man, masculinity vs. femininity, jealousy of other guys' looks, etc.?

Most "ex-gay" stories start with someone identifying as "gay" yet having some sort of emotional/psychological distress (or however you'd describe it) and their becoming "ex-gay" is concurrent with a correction of those problems...

But there are plenty of gay people who grew up without those types of faulty perspectives (and tbh while they're related to sexuality, they're not sexuality proper -- and they can be corrected without a change in sexual orientation).

[–]TopHat888[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

I honestly don't know. Everyone's journey is different.

[–]Christianthemsc190 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

I just ask because I see "ex-gay" stories being told all with a similar pattern -- a pattern that isn't true for many, many gay people.

And to the extent that it gives hope to gay people who don't fit that pattern or serves to justify a belief that those who don't fit that pattern can change -- it's misleading and damaging to the gay community that it's weaponized against.

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (3子コメント)

Yes, everybody's different, and we have to be careful not to promise quick fixes, because there aren't any.

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

I don't think there's even anything that needs "fixing," so I find that framing inappropriate.

It's just that stories like these never have the disclaimer "results not typical" appended to the top. A function (whether intentional or not) of an example like this...is just that, an example. It gives fodder to people who say that it is typical. It's weaponized against the vast majority of people who don't experience their sexuality as something changeable.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

I'm sorry; I'm not trying to fight anyone, just share my story

[–]Christianthemsc190 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

If what you're doing hurts others, intent IMO is irrelevant.

Edit: And I find that saying that you're "just sharing your story" is disingenuous when you elsewhere say that people can do the same thing that you can.

[–]Christian (Cross)mhkwar56 8ポイント9ポイント  (15子コメント)

I've often felt that we have unintentionally over-emphasized sexual identity to the point where, if you are a homosexual, and especially if you are coming from a situation where there is social pressure not to come out, then you almost have to allow your sexual identity to become your whole identity in order to overcome that social pressure.

Ultimately, it leads to such an unhealthy view for everyone involved. Even if you think homosexuality is okay, this allows your sexual identity to consume your life. And if you don't think it's okay, then this process leads you to be overwhelmed by the fact that you can never be the person you are supposed to be, when in fact you merely struggle with a different type of temptation than everyone else.

(Incidentally, homosexuality also allows you to engage in certain ministry situations that straight men or women should not engage in, such as (of you are a man) being alone with women for counseling. There are pros as well as cons!)

[–]Christianthemsc190 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

As a straight person, you can see the way that sexuality forms a part of the identity of gay people. But you can't see that about straight people, because it's hard to see stuff like that about yourself.

But as a gay person, I can see how heterosexuality forms a part of the identity of straight people. It's fascinating that they can't see that about themselves yet they see it in me.

[–]TopHat888[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

I agree that it's definitely an identity issue. That's why for me it was more than 'being straight'. It was about assuming my real identity in Christ.

[–]BestIfUsedByDate 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I was going to ask you about identity. It has seemed to me odd that a person would build their identity around which sex they are attracted to. I don't want to be known as "straight" or "heterosexual." That's not how I define or identify myself. Has this thought process been a part of your journey?

[–]TopHat888[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it actually has. I'm glad you brought this up. Anyone's life journey is about finding their identity in Christ. We try to find our identity in all the wrong places and that's what I did for so long. It's freeing to find identity in Christ. :)

[–]Christian (Cross)captive_conscience 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

I have no idea why you are being down voted. If we believe through Jesus all things were created, why shouldn't we find our real identity in the one who made us?

I know how easily I've been deceived about a great many things, why should I rely on my knowledge for my identity?

[–]TopHat888[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good points! God bless!

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I have no idea why you are being down voted. If we believe through Jesus all things were created, why shouldn't we find our real identity in the one who made us?

Because we know better than the creator, shush you. /s

[–]Christian (Chi Rho)kineticat -1ポイント0ポイント  (7子コメント)

This. It's why I tend to use the Catholic Church's "humanity first" terminology in referring to homosexuals as "persons with SSA" (same sex attraction). I'm straight, for example. But I don't act like I'm straight out of American Pie, all horny and not the least bit pie-ous. (Pardon the bad puns.)

Sexual fluidity is a thing.

[–]Christianthemsc190 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

I'm straight

Erm, don't you mean "person with different-sex attraction"?

[–]Christian (Chi Rho)kineticat -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I see what you did there. Well played.

[–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is what I consider the gold standard for talking about sexuality and mental illness and whatever people struggle with that shouldn't be part of who they are as a person.

I will add onto this though, on top of the order of the words in the sentence, I think it's best to express these things as something someone has as opposed to something they are. So the best thing you could say is "persons with SSA" or "persons who have SSA", but it wouldn't be right to say "people who are homosexuals", which really isn't much better than "homosexual persons".

Same with mental illness. Person with schizophrenia, person who has depression, as opposed to person who is schizophrenic, or person who is depressed.

Sometimes the difference this makes is pretty negligible, like people usually don't much mind if you call them depressed as opposed to having depression (I would think?) but even if it makes that little bit of difference for someone, it's a good habit to get into, I think.

[–]Christianthemsc190 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

What do you call black people? "People with blackness"?

[–]Reformed Christianjohn-14-6 -5ポイント-4ポイント  (0子コメント)

If anything positive has come out of this DIY-sexual-identity discourse that's emerged over the past few years, it's that fluidity has become acceptable. Some may use the term 'fluid' to subvert God's natural order, but some may use it to restore it as well. Honestly speaking if I examine myself, I don't think I rigidly fit into the stereotypical gender/sexual cultural mode that is subscribed to me. Perhaps my variation is not externally noticeable, but as far as self-identity goes I wouldn't call myself an 'orthodox heterosexual male'.

But I think that's the case with pretty much everyone. If behavioral and internet search statistics indicate anything, most people are not 'orthodox' in their sexuality. We try to project our ideal selves unto the world, to be sure - but we do this about pretty much everything, and sexuality is no exception here.

The Bible is all about telling us that people are confronted with various influences and choices - many of them against God's will; and that people should sanctify themselves - conforming themselves to the will of God and opposing the will of the world. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to "be yourself" or "define your own destiny". About being and identity, it says to be in Christ, and about destiny, it says that those who are in Christ are destined for eternal life, while those who are of the flesh are destined for eternal damnation. The Bible really only presents two choices, one of which really isn't a choice at all - as much as it's the negation of the truth.

This talk about fluidity only reinforces the understanding that identities that aren't in Christ are not really true identities at all.

[–]AngryVolcano 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

How exactly are you ex-gay if you weren't gay to begin with?

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

I used to be attracted to men, but God has changed those desires :)

[–]JakeT-life-is-great 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think some of the skepticism that you are encountering is because there have been many many many "ex gay" movements that consistently were exposed as shams.

The last major "ex-gay" movement admitted it was all a scam, they converted no one and the leader actually ended up marrying his partner.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/ex-gay-movement/

But, in the end, whatever works for you. None of my business. I just hope you are honest with future women that you aren't sexually interested in them so they have no surprises and know what they are signing up for.

[–]TopHat888[S] [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yes, there are unfortunate shams that exist and it's really sad. I think Exodus International had the wrong idea from the start.

I don't think I'll never be sexually attracted to women.

[–]Im_a_fuckin_turtle 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I went back and forth since I was young, I like pretty girls and get butterfly's in my stomach, but "damn looking at Mike kinda makes my downstairs tingle sometimes". This went back and forth till I finally gave the problem to Christ in my first year of college, after getting away from the hyper-conservative echo chamber than was my home church family. Got my first girlfriend, and I definitely liked girls. Then after we broke up, I ended up hooking up with a good guy friend. I was really confused to where I fell and basically prayed more and more, along the lines of "what the heck man, you didn't answer anything".

Not five minutes after one of the more charged prayers on this subject, I flip on the TV and like the third channel I hit has a documentary playing and it was currently talking about the growing acceptance of bisexuality.

So here I am. And I can somewhat related to you as far as not being helped by your interests and hobbies. I liked pretty much all other the stereotypical guy stuff (outside of sports. I like playing them but have zero interest in watching them played) but I also loved cooking and sewing and other "feminine" things. So my interest were of no help.

[–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I understand. It sounds like you didn't have a very good experience in church; this is unfortunately all too common. :(

What do you like about guys and girls, respectively?

[–]ChariotRiot 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Well, while I wouldn't call myself ex-homosexual (it just kind of comes off as mocking), I think you are asexual, OP.

Specifically panromantic. Which are asexual people who still get romantic feelings for a male or female based on personality, companionship, and even intimacy (not necessarily sex, but only holding hands not even a kiss).

You say you're not attracted to men anymore. I mean, I don't like to eat certain foods, but if I recognize a pretty dish, I can still visually appreciate it's appearance if I don't like the taste (gender) and/or not hungry (sex driven).

If you see a guy and get to know him, and find him attractive you would be an asexual biromantic.

Attraction physical or mental has such a wide list of defining words. I only threw one out with two different subdivisions for maybe some clarity, but I think you should just love or not love however you want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone, and you're truly happy.

Being cancer free, HIV free (I don't think this one is possible yet), free from jail...those sound like better victories than calling yourself ex-homosexual.

I understand it can be freeing to figure out what your heart/brain really wants, and we all grow into our own person at different rates, but I haven't met many LBGTQ people after discovering themselves saying they are "ex-lesbian/bi/gay/trans/queer or even ex-hetero" because they aren't relavent to the person you are now.

The ex thing just has a negative connotation that for some reason bothers me. I'm sorry, I'll stop harping on it. Better phrasing if more of a "I thought I was gay" or "I was sexually confused, but through God I know what I want".

It has been one heck of a morning on Reddit, I tell you what.

[–]TopHat888[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

My experience was a change of sexual desire from men to women. I understand that everyone's story is different though.

[–]Christian & Missionary AllianceCha05_Th30ry 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I really think you should watch "The Mask We Live In." It covers a lot of what you've said in regards to boxes.

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Awesome post, also I just wanted to note that during the times of the early Church Fathers, I believe not until the Victorian era it was quite normal to be emotional and weep tears as a man, it was considered passionate. That's only recently the past 100 years or so... I'm pretty sure there's a post on it at /r/askhistorians so don't ever feel dumb for being easy to cry.

I was attracted to guys I wanted to look like. I never physically acted out on my attractions, but I indulged in many fantasies.

Yeah dude, I'd be a qualified gay if this were the case... Jensen Ackles, Siwon, James Spader, a number of weird guy crushes... totally bromantical to admire someone for who they are and their physical appearance.

[–]Evangelical Covenant7Finger 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think becoming your "full self" is the key to all of this. Too many people, regardless of how they identify, feel like they don't fit in their assigned box, so they pick another box and force themselves into it. I think, to be truly happy, some people need to throw away the whole idea of boxes and just figure out who they are and embrace that.

[–]Assemblies of Godfanboy90 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

People. You can totally have your opinion, but if the dude says that this is how he is now and he is happy about, is it so hard to believe that that is the way it is. The Bible says God grants us the desires of our hearts. If this man wanted to be straight because he felt as if he was sinning, then perhaps that's exactly what God did for him. The Bible also says let each man work out his own salvation, which means, you are allowed to believe what is and is not right for yourself, but that doesn't necessarily make it right for others. That's all I'm saying. If you feel closers to God for this, then, by all means, congratulations!

[–]Eastern Orthodoxthephotoman 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

There are rare times when I long for the days when I was a mod here. This post makes me want the remove button again.

There's no way the majority of the comments can possibly be good. Even if OP is genuine in his belief that he was gay and somehow he's not gay anymore, the likelihood of this thread being a shitshow on the scale of the Donald Trump campaign is, like the rent, too damned high.

[–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

lol

[–]Roman Catholicpolycarpgyarados -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm trying really hard to get it there, but we're going to need several pillars of creation to tap into the Trump.

[–][削除されました]  (1子コメント)

[removed]

    [–]MennoniteCelarcade[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    1.4.

    You're willing to express your disagreement with the OP's point, but not this way.

    [–]Anglican Church of Australiacandydaze -2ポイント-1ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Question: would you consider yourself a feminist?

    [–]TopHat888[S] 10ポイント11ポイント  (9子コメント)

    Lol, that's a complicated question. I am not a feminist in the modern sense, but I do believe that men and women should be given equal status in society and should not be forced into gender behavior stereotypes.

    [–]AngryVolcano 7ポイント8ポイント  (4子コメント)

    That's not feminism?

    [–]caouchou 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

    There's probably not a more misunderstood or misused word on this website.

    [–]TopHat888[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (2子コメント)

    I guess a better way to phrase it is I don't support the abortion component of feminism or the extreme wing that advocates for men doing nothing in society.

    [–]Christian AnarchistKenosism 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

    What feminists "advocate" for that last bit?

    [–]United Church of Christprobablyjonah 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

    You literally just described modern feminism. Feminism is the social and economic equality of the sexes.

    [–]Christian (Ichthys)LewisTolkien 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

    "Feminism" has lost its original definition much like "Christianity" or "conservatism" or "liberalism". Different people would define all of those things in different ways. But you are right, technically he described feminism. People bring all sorts of other things to the table as to who a true feminist is, though.

    [–]United Church of Christprobablyjonah 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    That's true, thanks for pointing that out. Also, love the username. :)

    [–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    I don't support abortion though.

    [–]Fidemlesu 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

    We resemble the image of God and he has made us with his qualities also. Though a genderless God he created both male and female.

    [–]RealityBitesU [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

    Plenty of room in god's closet for everyone.

    [–]drdook -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

    As a researcher, I would point out that the gay/straight binary does not really match peoples experiences. Sexuality is much more like a spectrum between more and less straight or gay rather than a strict black and white. Then, as a Christian I would say that God loves gay people just as they are.

    [–][削除されました]  (28子コメント)

    [removed]

      [–]TopHat888[S] 5ポイント6ポイント  (24子コメント)

      I was attracted to men at one point.

      [–]United Methodistjchoyt 3ポイント4ポイント  (22子コメント)

      Are you attracted to no one now?

      [–]TopHat888[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (21子コメント)

      I'm emotionally attracted to women.

      [–]Episcopalian (Anglican)transmorgrifier 3ポイント4ポイント  (8子コメント)

      Confusing. You can have emotional connections with women as a gay man... Who are you physically attracted to?

      [–]ShaneOfan 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Exactly I'm a happily married straight man who still has deep emotional connections with men. There's guys that are more like siblings to me then my biological sisters.

      [–]TopHat888[S] 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

      I am physically attracted to women, just not in the stereotypical way.

      [–]MeshesAreConfusing 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

      So... Not sexually attracted.

      [–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yes, sexually attracted, but not to what society calls a 'beautiful woman'

      [–]MeshesAreConfusing 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      You're only attracted to their personalities then?

      [–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No, not only, just primarily.

      [–]Episcopalian (Anglican)transmorgrifier 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

      TopHat888, it's really OK be a gay Christian. Are there people who might be making you feel pressured to be what they expect, rather than who you truly are?

      [–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No, I have a very supportive family system.

      [–]AtheistIRBMe -1ポイント0ポイント  (6子コメント)

      I'm emotionally attracted to women

      What does that even mean?

      [–]MeshesAreConfusing 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      There are certain people who are attracted to a certain gender, but only sexually, and don't actually want to have a relationship with others of that gender. I assume OP is the other way around: attracted to women when it comes to relationships and intimacy, but is still into men, phisically. Or, not anymore, I guess? Is he in denial of his sexuality? Did God truly take away his gayness? I couldn't say.

      [–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

      I'm attracted to women with strong and vibrant personalities.

      [–]AtheistIRBMe 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

      I'm attracted to women with strong and vibrant personalities.

      Physically and sexually? Or you just like hanging around with them or what?

      And what about men with strong and vibrant personalities? Would you be equally attracted to a man if he had the kind of personality that you find "attractive"?

      [–]TopHat888[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      Yes, physically and sexually. I know it's kind of weird, but it's true for me. Somehow it's different for men, but that's a good question. I'm just not attracted to men anymore I guess. I don't want it to sound like a quick fix, because it was a process, but the results are real.

      [–]AtheistIRBMe 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Yes, physically and sexually

      How does that reconcile with what you said earlier:

      "I've accepted that I'm never going to be primarily attracted to physical qualities and that's okay."

      On a slightly different note, do you think having a physical homosexual relationship is a sin?

      [–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Primarily physical, not never physically attracted.

      Yes, I believe that homosexual behavior is sin, but not just having same-sex attractions.

      [–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb -1ポイント0ポイント  (4子コメント)

      FYI if you mean that you'd like to date women and stuff but not have sex wit them, the more standard terminology for what you're describing is romantic attraction.

      Also if you're not sexually attracted to them but are romantically attracted to them, a lot of people split up the ideas of sexual and romantic attraction. So that would make you... I guess, an asexual heteroromantic?

      It's your identity and the terminology you choose to you is up to you, I'm just saying that people might not understand "emotionally attracted" but they'll probably get "romantically attracted".

      [–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

      No, I'm totally down with sex with my future wife when it's time. :)

      I think that sexual and romantic attraction should be intertwined in a marriage relationship. It might be a better term to use I guess.

      [–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb -1ポイント0ポイント  (2子コメント)

      I really feel like what you're saying is that you're not at all sexually attracted to women, but you want to have sex with your future wife anyway because you feel that sex and romance are intertwined? Is that the case? What denomination are you, by the way?

      Sex is an embodiment of our emotions and passions through the physical joining of flesh, it's the ultimate act of intimacy and expression of connectedness with another human being.

      If there's a huge disconnect between how you feel about having sex and how you feel about a romantic relationship, I would strongly encourage you to rethink the idea that they are fundamentally intertwined. If you don't feel them being intertwined, trying to force them to be based on how you think it should work is potentially unhealthy.

      [–]TopHat888[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      I've been Baptist my whole life, but I don't necessarily agree with all of its tenets. I'm not primarily physically attracted to women, as in, I don't get turned on by first glance. I'm turned on by closeness and affection.

      [–]Unitarian Universalistjmwbb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      Sexually turned on? Nevermind most of what I said then, that's definitely just a weird as hell libido.

      I still encourage you to consider your sexuality more in depth and all that good stuff, but if you experience sexual attraction in some way then I'm sure you'll find yourself in a happy, healthy marriage with a wonderful woman :)

      [–]barwhack 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      I believe you. The mod-removed comment was a careful parody. The mods have opinions though.

      [–]Disciples of ChristRevMelissa[M] 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

      This was removed for subverting the discussion. Also, please avoid using "triggered" in a comical way.

      [–]barwhack -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You guys are tuning up a Safe Space, huh? Good for you.

      What is the sound of one hand clapping? millenials "discussing" The Gay.

      [–]thorhammer67 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      As long as you admit there are "some" behaviors that are purely manly and healthy.. Protecting and providing for ones family, spiritual leadership and initiation...this is what guys do as the priests of their homes.... Besides that who cares, you want to watch a drama and west an ascot? Who cares....

      [–]holyghostparty [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

      I have no words. Praying.

      [–]Independent Charismatic/PentecostalBitChick -5ポイント-4ポイント  (1子コメント)

      Thank you so much for sharing! What an incredible journey and testimony! :) It reminds me a bit of the testimony someone shared at the church I am attending now several years back. I was going through the video archive and thought what an amazing story of what God can do in regards to our sexual identities. (the first 15 to 20 minutes is a couple sharing about how the young man found healing in his sexual identity.) Here is a link if you are interested. http://southlands.net/2012/08/26/sexual-healing/

      [–]TopHat888[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Thanks for sharing! I'll post it at /r/exhomosexual