34
35

What if Trump actually wins? (self.SRSDiscussion)

Batsy22 が 投稿

I wanna talk about something I really haven't seen any discussion around.

I think all of us would agree that a Trump presidency would be immeasurably harmful. We'd probably see a dramatic increase in deportations, xenophobic immigration bans, increased Islamaphobia, a crackdown on BLM members, the rescinding of all executive orders protecting queer and trans folks, an even more militaristic US, the placement of right wing extremists on courts, and just the general empowerment of the alt-right. That's just to name a few things.

It still seems like Trump will lose but considering how he's consistently defied expectations and how Hillary keeps making very public mistakes, I think there is a sizeable chance that Trump will be the next president of the United States.

So what do we do if he does win?

全 121 件のコメント
並べ替え:
ベスト
トップ新着論争中古い順Q&A

[–]therapy 26ポイント27ポイント  (45子コメント)

It will be a sad day for the US and for the world. Scary to think of.

What do we do if it happens? First and foremost, figure out how to stop it from happening again in 4 years. Which should include some serious soul-searching on our side (meaning both Democrats and the left more generally).

[–]suto 14ポイント15ポイント  (26子コメント)

Which should include some serious soul-searching on our side

Half the left will blame the 2016 Democratic electorate for picking someone too conservative and the other half will blame them for picking someone too liberal.

The only hope will be Trump doing so terribly that any challenger can win.

[–]Lolor-arros 22ポイント23ポイント  (6子コメント)

How about the large number of people not in either half - who feel that our voting system needs to be dramatically reformed?

Our votes don't really count for anything at the moment...

[–]hipstergarrus 22ポイント23ポイント  (5子コメント)

If Trump wins, the Democrats will blame anyone who didn't vote for Hillary.

If Hillary wins, the Democrats will praise the system for defeating Trump and handwave away any concerns about the process.

[–]Defengar 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

It would take a herculean effort by both parties to truly change the presidential election system to a significant degree. I don't see it happening unless at some point in the future a third party candidate manages to cause enough of an upset to prevent any of the candidates from getting the majority of the electoral college votes, which would then cause the main body of the 12th Amendment to go into effect for the first time in ~200 years and leave everyone EXTREMELY pissed off (House votes for president, senate votes for VP, and if a tie isn't broken by inauguration day, the VP of the last administration reigns as president until things are ironed out). The last time this happened, Andrew Jackson was screwed out of the presidency despite winning a clear majority of the popular vote. He came back with a vengeance during the next cycle and tore the Washington establishment a new one when he won outright.

[–]hipstergarrus 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I dislike the notion that Andrew Jackson was at one point emblematic of democracy, but I agree that the election system is unlikely to change from within. It's rotten to it's core and it needs to be dismantled.

[–]Lolor-arros 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ergo, fuck the Democrats.

We need real change here.

[–]hipstergarrus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly. With things as they are, I really don't see how voting will change anything in the near future. Sure people can argue about 'strategic' votes for candidates but that cannot be the end of a person's political action. We have been conditioned to believe that voting once every four years (or two for local elections) is how we influence politics, but that alone will never get us anywhere.

Personally I think revolution is the only way for us to get the change we need. But even reformists should know they won't accomplish anything if election campaigns are their only method of action. Agitation, protestation, and resistance have always been instrumental in causing change and the overemphasis on elections distracts us from this.

[–]therapy 9ポイント10ポイント  (18子コメント)

How could anyone blame them for picking someone too liberal...? Hillary was the least liberal of the options, and in general is fairly centrist?

For the reverse, yes, I think it's a valid criticism that they picked Hillary and not Sanders. And part is indeed that he was more liberal, and even better he had the ability to get that message out and excite a lot of people.

[–]suto 32ポイント33ポイント  (17子コメント)

Hillary was the least liberal of the options, and in general is fairly centrist?

She was one of the most liberal senators while in office, and was and is to the left of Obama.

It's simply a fantasy of a small group of people in this country that she's "centrist." Maybe she would be for [insert your favorite European country here], but she's not centrist here by any means.

In particular, if she loses because moderates broke for Trump, you can bet that there will be people claiming that we needed a more moderate candidate.

This is essentially what happened in '92: the country lurched rightward under Carter and Reagan, and it took Bill Clinton and his strategy of triangulation to give liberals even the faintest hope of having influence.

If Trump wins, it will show that white nationalists and their allies have enough power to take the presidency. It may be that he would have lost if only the "hidden progressives" had an inspiring candidate. But, unless there's good reason to believe it, it may not be more meaningful than the "hidden white vote" or "hidden evangelical vote" that Romney and Cruz hoped to ride to victory on.

[–]therapy 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

I see your point, and yes, Hillary is to the left of Obama.

Still, Hillary was the least liberal of all the options. If someone says "we should have picked someone even less liberal", then who would that have been? Without such a viable candidate, it isn't a valid criticism, and there wasn't one.

[–]suto 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Jim Webb?

But, when talking about the "how to deal with 2020" question, the potential candidates in 2016 are less important than the potential candidates of 2020. If she loses in November, what should the DNC's goal be next time?

As far as "what mistakes might have been made," one could wonder who didn't run because Hillary ran. Maybe Liz Warren should have. But considering such counterfactuals is a hard game to play objectively.

[–]hipstergarrus 30ポイント31ポイント  (0子コメント)

Hillary is a neoliberal, she is certainly not left. I'm confused that you reject the notion that she is a centrist. She has already redirected her campaign to court 'moderate' republicans rather than leftists and has said in debates that she views herself as an excellent candidate for 'reaching across the aisle.' Sounds pretty centrist to me. Just because she's crafted an image of being more friendly to minorities doesn't erase her imperialist foreign policy or her shady cooperation with wall-street.

[–]nopus_dei 14ポイント15ポイント  (11子コメント)

She was one of the most liberal senators while in office, and was and is to the left of Obama.

The Iraq War is probably the single most important issue of our generation, measured by the number of people it killed. Clinton's conservative vote on that issue, her courting of other warmongers such as Kissinger and Negroponte, and her support for the Honduran coup and the Libyan war, mean she's nowhere near liberal. On global warming, possibly the only other issue that threatens a death toll in the six or seven figures, Clinton is also weak (she supports oil wars, pipelines, fracking, and the TPP).

Sure, there are studies that tally up congressional votes, treating all bills passing through the Senate as equal, and declare Clinton to be 90+% liberal. But all votes are not equal. As a second-generation immigrant, I find it pretty depressing that even on SRS, a candidate who voted to kill a million brown people for oil can be called "liberal" as a compliment.

[–]MilHaus2000 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

[insert your favorite European country here]

I'd probably add Canada to that

[–]BATMANWILLDIEINAK 4ポイント5ポイント  (17子コメント)

Hopefully the left will realize that non-violence were a lost cause.

[–]Borachoed 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

This. People on the left need to shed their aversion to guns and start arming themselves. I'd love to live in a violence free world, but I don't. Our enemies will certainly be armed, and unilateral disarmament is not a good idea.

[–]SometimesBob 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I guess we'll start seeing Prepper ads on liberal shows now.

[–]kapparoth 6ポイント7ポイント  (10子コメント)

Good luck going with rifles against the police that now have APCs and armors at their disposal, and, I came to believe, are motivated to fight for Trump.

[–]BATMANWILLDIEINAK 1ポイント2ポイント  (9子コメント)

Good luck winning the hearts of the people after they see unarmed civilians being gunned down and raped for being members of the resistance.

[–]blue_dice 12ポイント13ポイント  (1子コメント)

unarmed civilians

I thought you were advocating arming citizens.

raped for being members of the resistance.

Where's this coming from?

[–]Yasser_Novak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Where's this coming from?

Trump will recruit Mexican auxiliary troops to do the raping.

[–]ThatsSoRaka 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What world is this happening in? Trump isn't running for god-king. The president is powerful, sure, but Congress has more domestic influence. Trump winning the presidency won't turn the US into a dystopian nightmare in 4 or even (shudder) 8 years.

[–]kapparoth 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Hearts and minds? What hearts and minds? Trumpites don't care about either as long as they carry the biggest stick. Seriously, I think that if Trump wins, we/you are fucked either way. I'm feeling rather pessimistic ATM.

[–]Yasser_Novak 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

YOU may be fucked, chicken fucker. As for the rest of us normal people who aren't leftoids, illegal criminals, and ISIS terrorists, we're gonna Make America Great Again.

[–]kapparoth 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

Look what the cat has dragged in.

[–]Yasser_Novak 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The cat has something? Is it a carcass of one of the chickens you fucked?

[–]Yasser_Novak 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Uh, no, you don't HAVE to win their hearts once they see the "unarmed" dissidents being gunned down by right wing death squads. That's the whole point of state-sponsored terror, genius - to frighten people into staying in line!

You're a commie, you should know this - since the left have traditionally been the ones to use this kind of terror. Now be good, so you don't have to pay a visit to one of Trump's concentration hotels.

[–]day-ja-voo 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Good luck winning the hearts of the people after they see unarmed civilians being gunned down and raped for being members of the resistance.

This already happened.

[–]therapy 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Honestly, I can see reasonable arguments going both ways.

In other words, I'm not sure what we did wrong. We need to think carefully and with an open mind if we want to find out, I think.

[–]BATMANWILLDIEINAK 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

We looked at MLK when we should have looked at the black panthers. We opposed gun rights when its our only tool against the fascist united states. We talked about how much we want to help the poor when we often scold them for being right-wing, which only makes them want to support their oppressors. We praised the ability for women to join the murderous military as progressiveness. We believed that doing nothing would do something.

[–]therapy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Valid arguments.

But the reverse arguments also make sense. We've moved very fast on progressive causes recently, so fast it's created a large backlash, which has fueled the rise of the alt-right and Trump.

[–]successfulblackwoman 20ポイント21ポイント  (1子コメント)

I honestly have no idea what to expect. Trump has basically run a pandering campaign. I do not think he will do most of what he promised, and I do think he will do lots of things he never even spoke of.

My only hope is that he reaches a general state of deadlock with congress. Trump plus a GOP majority in house and senate terrifies me more than anything else.

[–]JRSlayerOfRajang 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pence as his VP shows what he plans on doing imo.

[–]TheBellmanHimself 42ポイント43ポイント  (11子コメント)

Best case scenario: Economic downturn, or the setup for one as our deficits increase, our labor market gets turned inside out and we probably get entangled in foreign wars.

Worst case scenario: Widespread ethnic cleansing.

Edit: Worser case scenario: Life on Earth ends in a nuclear firestorm. Approval ratings remain at an all time high.

[–]TotalInvisibility 33ポイント34ポイント  (7子コメント)

He has an unhealthy fascination with access to the 'red button', so I don't think that's the worst worst case scenario.

[–]TheBellmanHimself 34ポイント35ポイント  (6子コメント)

Oh shit.

You know even though I was talking about nuclear policy just a few weeks ago I hadn't even thought about that. I don't even really want to think about it though. Nuclear war is by far one of the most depressing possible scenarios to consider in any situation, and to think that it would be caused by that geriatric toddler in a wig...

[–]chic_mzungu 20ポイント21ポイント  (5子コメント)

The movie "Threads" from the BBC is a great depiction of a nuclear war. And by "great" I mean showing the abject horror and pointlessness of the whole thing, only for the survivors to be trapped in a radioactive dystopia where the entire world is starving and there's no industry.

[–]TheBellmanHimself 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

I've seen parts of Threads.

Literally the most horrible, depressing shit I've ever seen.

[–]chic_mzungu 10ポイント11ポイント  (3子コメント)

The U.K. literally set up suicide phone lines for the airing. Also, it's unknown if this is true, but it supposedly convinced Ronald Reagan nuclear war was a bad idea.

[–]Defengar 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

I would take that last part with a grain of salt. It probably did have some influence, but probably about the same as, or even less than "The Day After", which was made around the same time and is about the effects of nuclear war during and immediately after on the rural US. It was watched by over 100,000,000 people when it first aired on ABC in 1983, and remains the highest rated TV movie of all time.

[–]FakeyFaked 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

John Lithgow wasn't nearly as funny in that as I was hoping.

[–]Defengar 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think that best case scenario long term is that his garbage leadership causes a MASSIVE swing to the left by the general electorate, like what we saw with Congressional elections and the presidency because of Bush, but like 10 times harder. I could see someone with "socialist" as an open part of their platform actually having a decent chance under such circumstances.

I have no doubt Trump would fuck up conservative power in Washington harder than any republican since Herbert Hoover.

[–]NormalNormalNormal 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

What if he gets impeached shortly after taking office? On the one hand no more Trump. On the other hand, Mike Pence is President of the United States.

[–]jmbraze 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm honestly just as scared of Pence because of how owned he is by the tobacco industry.

[–]film_faker 18ポイント19ポイント  (4子コメント)

I honestly don't think he believes most of what he says and mostly just wants power for power's sake. I don't think he has any real plans so I don't think he'll take much action at all. However if we wind up with a republican majority congress, they'll have nearly free reign and it'll be a DISASTER for most people. Plus it'll empower those who actually believe in what he says.

If he's elected it'll be the worst, but I don't he'll be doing the damage directly.

[–]suto 18ポイント19ポイント  (2子コメント)

I'm not sure what qualifies as "doing damage directly" to you, but he has a lot of potential to screw up the international scene. Explicitly or implicitly, he seems to be encouraging Russia and China to use more force toward their territorial disputes with their neighbors, and encouraging those neighbors to establish or develop nuclear arsenals in defense.

Even if the American people wise up after four years and the empowerment of the alt-right never materializes, the damage he can do has the potential to last for decades.

free reign

This actually sounds completely reasonable--free rule. But the expression is actually free rein.

[–]back2dashit 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

If anyone cares the metaphor employed is a horse's reins. If somebody has free rein it means they are controlling the horse. The horse stands for anything that can be controlled such as a kingdom or a state or a corporation.

[–]NormalNormalNormal 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Explicitly or implicitly, he seems to be encouraging Russia and China to use more force toward their territorial disputes with their neighbors, and encouraging those neighbors to establish or develop nuclear arsenals in defense.

Wtf Trump? Why would he even want to do this? Is he just trying to goad foreign nations into going to nuclear war with each other, so they all blow up and only America remains?

[–]caesar_primus 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Next president gets a guaranteed Supreme Court nomination, probably a second, and maybe even a third. Hillary would give us the first liberal majority supreme court in a long time. Not to mention that she didn't buy into the stigma against having an "activist" judge.

[–]tqi 29ポイント30ポイント  (13子コメント)

Study Eastern Europe, strong men, dictators, and Putin. Guard the media, fight like hell for 1st amendment protections for our media outlets and social media.

Controlling the media is any strong man's second step.

[–]ElolvastamEzt 25ポイント26ポイント  (1子コメント)

Trump has already said he wants to limit the media's ability to report by "strengthening" libel laws to shut up anyone who speaks I'll ill (edit for autocarrot) of him. Step two has already been announced.

[–]Othello 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Luckily such laws would probably be limited to the discussion of hand size.

[–]NormalNormalNormal 9ポイント10ポイント  (1子コメント)

Never thought I'd see a freeze peach argument here, though I do agree with you.

[–]tqi 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Psst. Remember this thread from a month ago? Popped into my head when I saw he's suing the NYT. Freeze peach!

[–]Beesfield -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

fight like hell for 1st amendment protections for our media outlets and social media.

How does protection for more alt-right hate speech help us? We need to end Islamophobic and transphobic speech, not encourage freezes peaches.

[–]tqi 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

I get your memes but tyrants love controlling media. This isn't about protecting slurs, this is about keeping outlets free from Trump propaganda.

[–]bear__patrol 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am really trying to figure out how nobody here cares about climate change. His policies could doom efforts to prevent climate change and even accelerate it, and it's overwhelmingly poor communities, and communities of colour worldwide, that are going to suffer from it the most.

Guys, we're potentially dealing with worldwide catastrophe here. Do you even understand the implications of this? Has the Republican party so succeeded in misinforming the American electorate that even the left doesn't realise how bad the situation is?

[–]Mitya_Fyodorovich 2ポイント3ポイント  (5子コメント)

With any luck, it would be the shock the American left needs to come out of its long post-1968 coma.

I even fantasize sometimes that maybe when bipartisan policies carried out by both Obama and Dubya (NSA, unlimited drone warfare in Pakistan and Somalia, bombing assorted brown countries, drug policy that infringes the concept of federalism) are continued by a president for which liberals have such deep distaste that the democrats will remember how destructive all those policies are.

Maybe, in my most fantastic moments, we could even see congress and the states reminded of their important constitutional role and assert their power to constrain the imperial presidency. Imagine a democratic congress that demands a floor debate before any use of force or it will defund the illegal war?

[–]robertsada 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Guess who started this "illegal" war? Bush and the republican administration. The Middle East was a quagmire to begin with. Obama was forced into the mess

[–]Mitya_Fyodorovich 4ポイント5ポイント  (3子コメント)

I don't give a fuck who started it. I've been protesting the Iraq war since 2003 and I'll continue until it's over.

[–]robertsada 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Ok good I thought you were protesting the presidency, not the war, my mistake

[–]Mitya_Fyodorovich 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

It's that I think the Obama presidency has, in many ways, made the war worse. Democrats have defended actions because Obama took them that they'd never accept from a republican.

[–]robertsada 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

In some ways, yes I will agree with you Obama has made the war worse. But you can't disregard the fact that Afghanistan was a quagmire to begin with.

In terms of the rest of the Middle East, like handling Syria, Obama has definitely made some things worse.

[–]hipstergarrus 13ポイント14ポイント  (8子コメント)

If trump is not assassinated or impeached and actually intends to act on the promises he has made so far, there needs to be direct action on a wide scale. Communities should come together to protect themselves as well as those targeted by Trump, with force if need be. Large-scale protests against the presidency and non-complianace with any and all of his heinous policies.

To be quite honest though, this is something we need already and will still need even if Trump is not elected. Do not be passive to injustice, organize with and protect each other.

[–]CuckMeHardPlz 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

But... Violence is not the answer. That's what we're trying to prevent by keeping Trump out of office and you're calling for exactly what we don't want...

[–]hipstergarrus 14ポイント15ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm suggesting people defend themselves. Do you think it's wrong for a person of color to fight back when a white-supremacist attacks them?

[–]CuckMeHardPlz 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

I find it scary that I'm being downvoted. I really like this community and what it stands for but downvoting me for not condoning violence is just sad...come on people...

[–]moonshocked_dudette 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

The post is calling for communities to defend themselves. 'Violence is not the answer' is great and all, but not really practical when there are communities and people that will be greatly effected and targeted with violence if a Trump presidency were to actually happen. There's more nuance to the situation than I think you're giving credit for.

[–]bear__patrol 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

What do you want communities to do when they're targeted by white supremacists? Seriously?

[–]sexisaconstruct 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

organize with and protect each other.

You say this, but how.

[–]hipstergarrus 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you miss this part?

Communities should come together to protect themselves as well as those targeted by Trump, with force if need be. Large-scale protests against the presidency and non-complianace with any and all of his heinous policies.

If that's not detailed enough for you people can organize through activist groups, social media, or by talking to people in their community. The rest is mostly just resistance. (e.g. If deportation officers are prowling around then you can hide the people they're targeting.)

[–]sexisaconstruct 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

What if people in the communities, activist groups, or on social media, a decent number of people are hostile to you for being marginalized along multiple axis, say being trans, black, muslim, disabled and a sex worker, or you are afraid that there is a good chance they will be?

The idea sounds great, communities coming together to protect each other, but I wan't to ensure that some of the most vulnerable people are protected or more protected.

I bring this up because the more volatile inter-community issues can make groups that are supposed to be safe for for members of a community, unsafe. For example LGBT groups that aren't actually safe for trans women, something I've personally experienced and heard from reliable sources.

[–]srsdthro 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Oppose him in every way possible, same as we always do. Life goes on and so does the struggle. Hopefully his election to the presidency would radicalize people and get them to organize for an actual left electoral force.

[–]acidroach420 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Trump is such a charlatan that it's hard to predict how he would actually govern. The most likely scenario to me is that he throws his hands up and lets the GOP establishment guide his administration.

[–]NormalNormalNormal 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Some things he has said have indicated that he doesn't want to do any work and just wants the prestige.

[–]AliceHouse 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

The conspiracy theorist in me say that the powers that be are grooming him into the next Hitler because they need to blame someone for an upcoming disaster they have planned.

The realist in me say that life is just going to carry on. Sure, they'll be some big changes. But life is a non-stop parade of big changes.

The depressed realist in me points out that many of life's big changes include drastic disasters with massive death.

[–]MilitaryBees 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I hate to feed into conspiracies, but I'm curious what sort of "disaster" you're picturing when you said this.

[–]AliceHouse 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Trump-is-Hitler theory seems to be the most apt. He's doing just exactly all the things Hitler did. So it will probably involve getting an entire country on board for some awful atrocity.

All with the support of the American citizenry, of course.

[–]WorseThanHipster 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

He's dangerously ill informed on basic things like how the Supreme Court works, what they do, he blabs about intelligence briefings and he very clearly doesn't know how the military works at all. In the CIC forum, he called the US Command incompetent and said he would fire a lot of generals... He cannot. He is stuck with them and that's going to be awkward at best.

All that being said, I think once enough people who he has no control over speak up he'll be impeached, arrested, mutinied maybe. Maybe not that drastic but something unprecedented that will see him impeached at least.

[–]quentiam_machina 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

It's important to note that Trump hasn't really defied expectations during the general election. Sure, the Republican primaries were pretty crazy but Trump's been pretty much doing exactly as well as he was predicted to for a while now.

[–]bicyclediaries 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

He can't do anything Congress doesn't allow him to do. So worst cast scenerio is he blows down a straw house or two.

[–]StumbleOn 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

I think Trump will be a disaster but because he is so off on everything you're right about this. Even a GOP majority congress would not let him do much.

If Trump wins, you'll probably find a MUCH more bipartisan congress. They'd have to create constant supermajorities to defeat the executive over and over and over. Even the GOP leadership dislikes Trump and his stupidity.

[–]Spongebobs_Asshole 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

First, it's worth stating that at this point, Trump winning is a VERY real possibility. He has defied all conventional electoral wisdom thus far. No one has ever been as far down in the polls as he was after the DNC and recovered, and yet he recovered in a couple weeks.

The opposition really needs to get its shit in gear and stop arguing about things that don't matter. Nothing matters but WINNING, but putting anyone in that chair who isn't Donald Trump. In our system, if you don't win, you don't make policy, and you're exiled to wander the desert of theory. It's very binary that way.

So to people who won't come out and vote for Clinton because of the emails or because she isn't progressive enough or whatever, I would say that they need to reevaluate the situation. In many ways, Trump wants to put us all back in the 1950s, and leaving entirely aside whether he can pull that off (he can't), that isn't what we want.

Half a loaf is better than none. Even if HRC represents zero change from the status quo, it's better than 50 years of backslide.

[–]SometimesBob 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I think short term(1-2 years into office) and long term(6+ years post presidency) the effects of a Trump Presidency will be minimal. The Presidency is not the all powerful position we sometimes hope, or fear it to be, and what a President alone can do is limited.

Example, President Obama would like to close Guantanamo but Congress has effectively stopped him. Just so the Congress, many members face election 24 months after the presidential election, and the Courts may stymie Trumps efforts.

Also if Trump is elected I believe the Senate will flip to Democrat majority at the midterms further reducing Trump's influence.

Will it be bad, probably. Will that bad be long lasting, probably not.

[–]dry_popsicles 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

The Presidency is not the all powerful position we sometimes hope, or fear it to be, and what a President alone can do is limited.

1) Minimum of 2 supreme court nominations, tipping the court one way or the other for the foreseeable future

2) If it is Trump, then the Republicans control all 3 branches of government (again) which will lead to a final repeal of PPACA, which will almost certainly cause some people to die from lack of medical care. The sky is the limit with the rubber stamp that is Trump (or, really, Pence, if what Kasich said was true about Trum not being interested in actually being president)

3) Executive orders. After the '06 wave, Bush opened the floodgates and Obama legitimized them. Even if congress doesn't want to enact <some batshit crazy nationalist law> that Trump pushes for, he can always end-around to make it happen.

4) Politicization of the Federal Reserve. Go ahead and say what you will about banks, but the reality of the situation is that the fed at least has generally adhered to it's mission of full employment. While BRIC teeters on a cliff for one reason or another and Europe is stuck in a positive feedback loop from austerity. Meanwhile the Fed has plotted a pretty decent path to avoid the lack of stimulus from the federal government to push some economic growth. Sure it would be nice to see closer to 3% inflation instead of 1% inflation to help out debt-carrying Americans, but, better than the alternative.

5) Economic collapse. See above, and the inevitable bubble that will form from the action of Republicans. The .com bubble and housing bubble have absolutely obliterated wealth for the 99% and another bubble could be the tipping point to push even more people in poverty (with SNAP and EBT obviously going to be gutted to boot)

[–]throwthetrash16 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

You people are no different from the radical religious conservatives who swore an Obama presidency would see Christians rounded up in to death camps.

[–]jmbraze -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

No one said this except the same people who are supporting Trump

[–]throwthetrash16 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly my point. Horseshoe, man.

[–]Matt_604_250 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Even though i'm from Canada and this election won't have a direct impact on me. My opinion is that IF Trump wins the election, it will justify the institutionalized classism and racism that America was built on. That it is alive and well, it was not decreased by Obama's 8 years, and that America will be taking a huge step back in terms of progression as a multicultural society. But if he does get elected, I wouldn't be surprised at all, because of the way news corporations and media giving him the spotlight, and that all we talk about is him, and never the real issues and candidates that actually wanted to make a difference in American society. If I was an American citizen, I would vote for Bernie Sanders. As he follows the way Canada runs their political system and society

[–]KateTheAwesome 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

It means I don't send off my job application to valve at Seattle... XD

[–]merleau-ponty -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

My brain won't allow me to seriously contemplate that possibility.

[–]tqi -4ポイント-3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Okay. Ignore at will, but I gave you a resource which I think is really interesting and worthy of consideration.

Also, be aware you are tossing aside an argument because it doesn't feel right.

Know that I was trained specifically in American contexts for understanding power, oppression, and control, but that the presidential level is an international event and context.

Good luck. Sorry you don't like my suggestions, but more sorry you won't check my source, which if you would, you would likely recognize as further left than you are slandering me for.