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r/socialism regarding the firebombing of Republican headquarters (self.circlebroke)

Burnnoticelover が 投稿

so the republican headquarters of a small north carolina county was bombed recently. Fortunately, no one was hurt as the office was closed, but it's still a crime and an unpleasant symptom of rising political tensions in the US, right?

Well, not according to r/socialism.

https://www.np.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8uzfua

This entire comment thread is a shitshow.

One wonders how long the liberals would defend the property and free speech rights of fascists. Would they still gasp if this happened during a Trump re-election campaign after he spent 4 years deporting Muslims and Mexican-Americans?

"It's retalitation for something that hasn't happened yet, so it's justified"

some other enlightened proletarian soul comments

I was talking with a family member who is Democrat about this today. I asked them if they would be against a Jew firebombing a nazi headquarters just before the Nazis seized control, while it was still a republic. They said yes. I wish I was kidding. The ideology is too strong.

Because conservatives are nazis, right? Big Naziing nazis who hate everyone who isn't them.

and here's another one.

It's perfect in my opinion, no unnecessary deaths or anything, made a statement, can't imagine that going better.

If by "Statement" you mean "act of violence designed to scare people", then yes I suppose it is a statement.

In a different thread, someone else comments

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8v1j24

Whataboutism at its finest. "We can be as bad as we want, provided the other side is a little worse"

https://www.reddit.com/r/socialism/comments/57to3s/republican_hq_in_orange_county_firebombed_gop/d8v91pl

anti fascism is self defense

Republicans are not fascists. These terms are not interchangeable. And even if they were, what kind of justification is "self defense in advance"?

I don't like Donald Trump, I'm not fond of where the republican party has gone, but firebombing a political building in a first world country should be unacceptable to everyone.

If my links are bad on this, let me know. I'm not very good with computers.

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[–]pfods -2ポイント-1ポイント  (8子コメント)

lot of 16 year old tankies in this thread.

[–]Sandflapjack [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Were being brigaded.

[–]pfods [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

one mans brigade is another mans praxis

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

"oh no people are challenging the liberal hegemony it must be a brigade, because our ideas are so unassailable there's surely no other explanation"

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (4子コメント)

i'm a 26 year old anarcho-posadist with chinese characteristics, thank you very much

i do appreciate your smug liberal outlook and unwillingness to actually engage with ideas outside the incredibly small overton window in america though. which candidate that's going to oppress marginalized people do you plan on voting for in a few weeks?

[–]Sandflapjack [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

actually engage with ideas outside the incredibly small overton window

Engaging in ideas?!?! thats PUSSY LIBERAL speak, son. Real freedom fighters shoot people and set fire to things! Its only ok when we do it.

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

this is just word salad, with an unnecessary gendered slur in it at that

[–]pfods [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

smug

Is self-awareness bourgeois?

[–]PM_me_your_networks 1ポイント2ポイント  (5子コメント)

Please enlighten me on how participating in bourgeoisie elections is going to provide for an anti-capitalist platform? I think you might want to freshen up on the years 1776 and 1917.

[–]oddy-nuff [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Liberals: It's never okay to use violence in pursuit of political goals!

Also liberals: I love the founding fathers

[–]Sandflapjack [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

What the fuck kind of liberals do you hang around because all the liberals I can see talk shit about the founding fathers constantly.
Oh wait tankies will find any reason to shit on liberals I forgot.

[–]Potrumpkin_Villager [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

And what if the people do not want anti-capitalism? Are you suggesting that intimidation of liberal parties is justifiable if anti-capitalist parties cannot effectively communicate their message to the polity?

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

all working class people want to be liberated from the dictatorship of capital, some of them just don't know it yet

[–]Potrumpkin_Villager -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Even if you'd like to see liberal democracy replaced with something else, there's no empirical evidence to suggest this sort of violence actually leads to that outcome, and there are quite a few examples from the past to look at, in the US and in other countries.

Not to be too smug here, but I think subreddits like /r/socialism just enjoy the fantasy of sticking it to the man. Can't win at the ballot box, so you'll take some (likely insured) property damage and pretend it was a victory for the cause.

[–]aruraljuror 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

You don't gain workers rights and the abolishment of capitalism at the ballot box.

[–]Potrumpkin_Villager -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

And you make progress towards those goals by firebombing office buildings how, exactly? The state GOP files their insurance claim, replaces their signage and office chairs, the person who did it might go to jail, and then what?

Look, I respect your perspective, but the United States is probably the most liberal country now and in all of history. You don't win with violence when the polity and the state don't find your views appealing. It's not like the public followed the Bundy clan into a full scale insurrection just because they took over federal property and had a (somewhat one-sided) shootout with the state police.

[–]PM_me_your_networks [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Care to explain how love and forgiveness helped the jews fight fascism in Nazi germany?

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

propaganda of the deed my dude. this act accomplished nothing on its own, but hopefully it inspires other people to get off their ass and engage in direct action. i think we have to be wary of adventurism, but it's hard to be too critical of any sort of antifa/anti-capitalist action in a country with a left as disorganized and weak as america

[–]Sandflapjack -3ポイント-2ポイント  (8子コメント)

I got on an argument on twitter over this with tankies and made some good points on this.

[–]aruraljuror 0ポイント1ポイント  (7子コメント)

cool story bro. just out of curiosity, what's your definition of a tankie?

[–]Sandflapjack -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

I know the actual word doesnt apply to all I put them under, but I just use it as an insult towards leftists who fetishize and glorify violence.

[–]pfods [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

i mean....that kind of fits the definition.

[–]aruraljuror 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

i don't know many leftists who fetishize or glorify violence - not to say they don't exist, there are bad eggs under any ideological umbrella - it's just that most of us realize the capitalist class isn't going to peacefully hand over the means of production and stop exploiting workers. i despise violence on a personal level, but i recognize it as a necessary evil sometimes. also, it's kind of ridiculous to call an incident of vandalism in which no one was hurt "violence"

[–]Sandflapjack [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Of corse it wasnt violence, but the people arguing on twitter actually implied facists cannot be reasoned with and should either be jailed or killed.
also As I keep saying to people, the recent donation "scandal" was more symbollic then anything. It was to show the person who set the fire that they do not accept fear tactics as a means to an end, and donated reparations for that action.

[–]aruraljuror [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

democrats: we have to stop trump
leftists: ok firebomb office
democrats: no not like that donate money to trump

like, fuck this liberal notion that politics is a game. people's lives are at stake. that money could have gone to, idk, feeding the homeless, or supporting troubled LGBTQ+ kids, or literally anything more worthwhile than giving fascists an office to operate out of

[–]oddy-nuff 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Tankie= person with basic human decency who stands up for what is right and fights fascism

[–]aruraljuror 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

like SJW, tankie has lost all meaning on the internet and now means anyone to the left of bernie sandlers

i'm a fucking anarchist and was recently called "one of the worst tankies on reddit"

[–]Kzraxus -3ポイント-2ポイント  (9子コメント)

I love socialists and commies using the liberal label on themselves and discarding it with "we are not liberals we are socialists" whenever they see fit through.

[–]aruraljuror -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

i don't know a single socialist or "commie" who uses the liberal label on themselves. we pretty universally despise liberals.

[–]whoaaa_man 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

You don't have any idea what you're talking about. No socialist would call themselves a liberal. A liberal endorses capitalism. A socialist/communist does not.

[–]richhomieram 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

Depends on the type of socialist... In my opinion fuck liberals

[–]Kzraxus -2ポイント-1ポイント  (4子コメント)

What is your opinion on stalin.

[–]PM_me_your_networks 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Not enough kulaks died. The Juche revolution was great in resisting western imperialism.

[–]oddy-nuff 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

A good Christian boy who did nothing wrong

[–]aruraljuror 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

he was a good Christian who did nothing wrong, obviously

[–]lunetron 6ポイント7ポイント  (5子コメント)

Yeah, I don't like the GOP either, but this kind of thing is unacceptable.

The taboo against political violence is VERY strong in our society, and violence in the pursuit of political ends has no credibility. We should keep it that way.

People are afraid of fascism and of a right-wing that engages in repressive, brutal acts. Well, you know what? Legitimizing violence in service of ideology, be it political, religious, whatever, would go a long way towards enabling the same sort of violence from the right that people fear.

So, no, this kind of thing is not justified. Such actions can all too quickly lead to worse things, regardless of why they are being done.

[–]oddy-nuff 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Feel free to not fight fascism, but when the fascists kill people (which they always do), I hope you can live with the fact that you were complicit in that

[–]aruraljuror 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

yeah, violence has never accomplished anything in history. all change and progress has been the result of voting. i too remember when Mussolini was defeated at the ballot box!

[–]richhomieram -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

So we should just let the fire of Fascism burn down our houses?

[–]oddy-nuff 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fires, yes, although I was thinking somewhere else