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Shame on Y Combinator (marco.org)

clydethefrog が 投稿

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[–]locallyunsceneSocial Justice Westeros -3ポイント-2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Theil is a tool, but is this a reasonable expectation for Y Combinator? The lunatic is the Republican Candidate for president. He's had, at times, the support of over 75% of the Republican electorate. Trump isn't normal, but we're still talking about ~40% of the country. Ostracizing that many people is not feasible. There needs to be a dialogue.

I get this is not a normal election. Trump has baldly racist policies that garnered him the core of his supporters. I fully support the author's right to write this Op-Ed. I just don't think that it is productive.

[–]sameshiteverydayhereIt's not just you, I just hate being social 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

Hmm... nope. We don't owe the Trumpys 'dialogue'. They're fascists.

[–]locallyunsceneSocial Justice Westeros -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree the hardcore supporters are fascists, but the people who got Trump into striking range of being elected, that last 10-20%, are people who want to shake up the system because they feel their voice isn't being heard or is being dismissed. They don't want a wall, they want someone who will try and do something about their concerns or at least is paying attention to them. These are the people we need to talk to. The ones who could vote for a demagogue because their towns are dying and no one else cares.

TLDR: If you want to prevent another Trump like candidate from occurring you don't lump his supporters together, strengthening the coalition between the disaffected and the white nationalist. You separate them and let their differences shine through.

[–]sameshiteverydayhereIt's not just you, I just hate being social 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

'> And no one else cares'

Oh bullshit.

Sorry, Neville, but you're plonked for that one.

[–]virtual_star 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, it is a reasonable expectation. Thiel is not supporting Trump because Trump is the Republican candidate, Thiel is supporting Trump because he's Donald Trump. He's specifically supporting Trump's platform of fascism and hatred, which is not the Republican platform (as bad as the Republican platform is).

[–]callcifer 0ポイント1ポイント  (4子コメント)

Trump disgusts and scares me just as much as anybody here, but I'd like to offer the following comment from the HN discussion of Marco's post. As much as I hate to admit, I think they have a point :(

Posts like this play directly into Trump's hands. The entire Trump ideology is based on a belief that "real Americans" are being oppressed by a sinister "global elite". Demanding that Trump supporters be fired tells everyone that the "elites" are a) scared of Trump, b) can't win through arguments and have to resort to intimidation, and c) are a powerful, dangerous group which is hostile to average people, who need someone to protect them from this sinister force. Which is all, of course, exactly what Donald Trump wants them to believe.

Daily newspapers have endorsed Clinton by a margin of 147 to 2. It should be obvious, over a year after the Trump campaign started, that anyone voting for Trump isn't going to be dissuaded by yet another article calling him racist. Indeed, I think many Trump supporters back him because of all the articles calling him racist. "They" must be scared of Trump (the logic goes), or else "they" wouldn't spend so much effort attacking him, so Trump must be the only "truly independent" candidate who will "fight the system".

If you don't believe me, look at eg. this comment on /r/The_Donald, which was voted up to #1 on a recent Peter Thiel article:

"True story. I once hung out with a group of lesbians (most my friends are male), and when they found out I didn't agree with them politically, they told me they were taking away my dyke card. Thankfully there are a LOT of gays who give no fucks about the 'lgbtqjseflelkf community', and just live their lives like anyone else. This article is nothing more than typical democrat tactics. 'YOU'RE NOT A REAL <insert minority> UNLESS YOU DO WHAT WE SAY.' REMEMBER IF TRUMP WEREN'T A REAL THREAT, THEY WOULDN'T BE THIS DESPERATE." (emphasis in original)

The same tactics have been used against Trump over and over and over, for more than a year now, and his support is still pretty much where it was during the summer. Insanity is doing the same thing, over and over and over, and expecting different results.

[–]sameshiteverydayhereIt's not just you, I just hate being social 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

We're not expecting to win over the neonazi fascist filth that supports Trump. We're looking to punish them, to ostracize them, to not reward them with hugs and forgiveness and offramps and kisses and overtures toward kumbayas. We're looking to tell them 'lose the fascism and racism and sexism, or fuck off'.

[–]callcifer 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

We're looking to punish them, to ostracize them, to not reward them

That might be what you are looking for. I for one, want people to be nicer, more considerate, more inclusive and generally more accepting towards differences. That's all. I have absolutely no interest in "winning over" anyone, because I reject the us vs. them narrative that neatly divides us into camps. As the quote says, your approach only serves to further the divide.

That's the problem with posts like Marco's; it's not going to change the opinion of anyone. You either already agree that Trump is a bigoted asshole, or you think this is yet another smear campaign by the "leftist elite". So what does that leave us with?

  • The author didn't "win over" anyone.
  • He responded to hate with hate, furthering the divide.
  • He got to go on an ego trip masquerading as doing the right thing.

I just can't see how any of that benefits anyone, except the author. But maybe that's just me.

[–]BZenMojo 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

You realize narrowing the divide sometimes means meeting bigots halfway, right? Maybe we need better metaphors and better actions?

[–]callcifer 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You realize narrowing the divide sometimes means meeting bigots halfway

Sure, but I'm not meeting their bigotry halfway. I'd like to fix the underlying problem which, in my opinion, is that these (mostly low income, religious and generally conservative) people have been ridiculed, ignored and looked down on for quite some time and the anger that comes from that presents itself as racism, sexism and xenophobia. So I have no interest in telling people to stop being racist etc., that won't solve anything; they won't stop doing it just because someone said so (would you stop being say, a feminist, because a Trump fan told you to?). I want to fix the conditions that made them like that.

[–]back2dashit -3ポイント-2ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is what happens when you let nerds run the show. The last 20 years have been a really bad mistake. Nerds are fascists by nature. They must be kept in check. But instead we let them design our society.