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[Post Matchday Thread] Liverpool -0 - 0 Manchester United (self.reddevils)

D1794Viva Ronaldo が 投稿 - announcement

This is the post Matchday thread. A thread for level-headed and insightful discussion on the game

Stats Liverpool Man Utd
Possession 65% 35%
Shots 9 7
On target 3 1
Corners 3 1
Fouls 14 20

Man of the Match: Ander Herrera

Next match: Fenerbache at home on Thursday K.O 8:05pm

Talking points: - We set up for the draw, and got one. Is this a bad way to play, or a job well done?

  • Ander Herrera's performance in the middle of the pitch

  • How could we have won the game?

  • How do you feel about the game at Chelsea after that performance?

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[–]generiquaiGiggs 25ポイント26ポイント  (3子コメント)

Some of the points made in this subreddit and r/soccer have really confused me. I didn't look at reddit or any social media throughout the game and now I'm starting to think my opinion gets swayed whenever I do.

  • LVG did not attack in these away games. People have been saying 'at least LVG went out and attacked against Liverpool last year'. We had one shot on target last year and scored from it. We had one shot on target this year and didn't score. We were shit against Liverpool last year but we nicked it.

  • Ferguson did not always attack in away games. He was a smart man. He knew better than to go all out attack in away games. We sat back and pushed whenever we found a gap under Ferguson. Remember 4-5-1 in the champion's league away games? That was one of Ferguson's specialties.

  • I'm happy with the result. We didn't win but I'd happily take a draw away at Liverpool/Spurs/Chelsea/City/Arsenal. Those sorts of results are title winning results. If we can get draws away to these clubs and make Old Trafford a fortress again we would win the league.

[–]NGU-BenPogba 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

We also had only one shot on target because Zlatan couldn't score from 3 yards away. This was a typical Mourinho performance away from home and shows that we are learning to play his way and listen to his ways and his ways only. It only made me more confident of his abilities.

/r/soccer is just an anti United circle jerk at the moment so I'm staying away. Although I do laugh at Arsenal and Chelsea fans making fun of us for being defensive against a team that smashed them both at their grounds. Suddenly we go to Anfield and are supposed to play expansive attacking football? Liverpool showed both of them what they could do if they left gaps. We didn't leave a gap for 90 minutes and emerged with a solid and deserved point, and we could've won it if Zlatan buried that chance. Arsenal and Chelsea left with egg on their face.

[–]SarcasticDevilRafael 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Spot on, people are choosing to ignore the context of this game. Of course, with £500 billion trillion spent we'd ideally be coming to Anfield and properly threatening them. Even without the money spent this is Manchester United Football ClubTM and we should be playing like the attacking gods that we have unarguably always been. We should be pro-football, not anti-football because Fergie would be turning in his grave.

But take a look at how this season has gone so far and yesterday was clearly a sensible performance. Liverpool have been blistering going forward, comfortably beating Arsenal and Chelsea away from home, and have the ability to be 3-0 up by half time given the chance. United have been inconsistent at best despite the trillions spent.

I very much doubt that at the beginning of the season Mourinho was planning to play so defensively at Anfield. I doubt he threw £800 million at Pogba whilst thinking "heh, this will help me draw 0-0 in away games". He would love to be able to come to Anfield and smash Liverpool, and I've no doubt that was his intention at the beginning of the season. But Mourinho knows the context, he knows we aren't in a position to do that at the moment. He knows Liverpool are better and will annihilate any attacking team right now.

A 0-0 draw with almost zero chances is better than playing free flowing football and losing 5-3. The whole "We are Manchester United and shouldn't be playing like this" pisses me off to no end, this was a pragmatic performance that worked.

[–]TyperSniperKeane 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Exactly, looking back it proves that we're already playing exactly how he wants us to and when Mhkitaryan comes back/Ibra and Pogba step up their games we'll be a mirror of Chelsea when Jose won the title with them, that was one of the best defensive displays I've ever seen from us.

[–]omegaxLoLAnder Herrera 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

Satisfied with the defensive performance, but offensively we were useless. Young was pretty much a second LB, Rashford was ok. Pogba did create our only big chance of the game but let's not forget how wasteful he still was with the ball before and after that. Ibra has not been good for some weeks now.

[–]10354141 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I agree with you on the offensive end, but I have to say Im more than satisfied with the defensive performance. We were very well structured in this game, and held a team who were joint top scorers going into the weekend to a 0-0 draw away from home. that kind of defensive solidity is not to be sniffed at. The issue is obviously the effect this had on the attack, but I think a defense like that in big matches is a very solid foundation to build on.

[–]tocitusMemphis 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Largely I'm happy with that game and the performances in it. It has been a long time since I've gone into a match worried about what the opposition can do to us but a combination of what this match means to me, Liverpool's free-scoring form, the fact the game was at Anfield and their results against top sides so far this season had me worried. Turns out we didn't need to worry though.

Mourinho's gameplan might not have been pretty but it was actually largely incredible to watch them reduced down to one long-shot (amazing shot as it was) and one weird box scramble by Can and the first 35 minutes of the game I don't think I've seen us harass an opponent that much.

If Ibra had actually managed to score that header (talk more about that in a bit) then I think they would have got more energy from that and gone on to shut up shop and hold on for the 1-0 win but as it stands I'll happily take a point at Anfield given all the factors.

The actual gameplan itself seemed simple enough but it worked very well:

Firstly, we pushed up very high for a lot of the first half. We tried to remove the space which meant they either had to play over the top (which is fine for Valencia, Bailly and Smalling) or they had to have inch perfect passing through a midfield that we packed out. Young and Rashford stayed up the field on Clyne and Milner and this seemed to do two things:

1) It stopped Karius from being able to play out from the back to them (and Pogba and Ibra largely tried to cut off the other avenues) which meant they had to either be risky or just go long. If they went long we inevitably won it back through Smalling, Bailly (who was phenomenal again) or Fellaini.

2) It pinned them back and didn't give them the freedom to push on up field which meant that Mane either had to try and pick up the ball wide (where he was instantly shut out by Blind) or come inside (where he was instantly shut out by Fellaini and Herrera).

So they ended up having no real avenues to attack through and a midfield of Can and Henderson is never going to have the guile to beat this kind of structure.

This worked for most of the first half until they started to tire in the last 10 minutes which gave Liverpool more space to start working in but even then the defence was good enough to restrict them to creating absolutely nothing.

Second half started much the same and lasted until the 60th minute when Lallana came on when it all changed.

From the 60th minute onwards I'd accept the negative football accusations from people as we just shut up shop and decided to get out of there with a point but before that we were largely the better team and it was only a poor performance from Ibrahimovic that didn't allow us to make more of it.

Whenever we won the ball back we were looking for him or Pogba. Pogba always had one of Henderson or Can around him (or both sometimes) and although this meant Herrera and Fellaini ended up with acres of room in the centre of the park, it meant Pogba had no space to do anything. I think they largely negated him well.

Ibrahimovic was poor though. Don't get me wrong, I didn't expect him to take everyone on and smash one into the top corner but I expected him to at least make a few of the passes into his feet stick. His touch, passing and (when the opportunity came) his finishing was poor and this massively effected the United gameplan and his poor hold-up play didn't give them time to transition effectively.

Also another thing I'm disappointed in is how easy we made Karius's life. He looked so nervous during the game and made a series of errors when under little pressure (I think the best thing he did in the whole game was dealing with Rashford's cross along the ground into the box when he scooped it away from the penalty area and out for a throw in) and I cannot believe we didn't target him more when we had the ball. Too often the ball wasn't going into the box and was being passed around. It should have been a case of if you have half a chance of getting a cross in, go for it.

Overall though I'm fine with the result. I'd have been much happier had we gotten the 3 points against Stoke but those games happen and I'm not sure you can ever argue against a point at Anfield. We got completely out-tacticed in the match against City in the first half but I'm not sure you can acccuse us of that this game.

To end on a more positive note though, some amazing defensive performances last night. The entire back four was effectively one massive rock and Valencia and Bailly especially were impressive but the midfield of Fellaini and Herrera were just brilliant at winning the ball back and recycling it.

[–]mufctezIbrahimovic 10ポイント11ポイント  (5子コメント)

Hard to know what to think to be honest. I could accept the result more if we had beaten Stoke.

I was very impressed with our discipline, but at the same time, if we had any other keeper in goal they would have won no problem.

I just find it odd that we're extremely satisfied with a point against Liverpool- does that mean the same against Chelsea? That'll be 3 points from a possible 9 in the last 3 games. Not title contending statistics at all.

I'm not being negative about the season as a whole, just a bit confused I suppose.

[–]Stalin_Fergie_Mao 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Very few people are "extremely" satisfied with the point. That's the /r/soccer ABU narrative but it's bollocks. Given the circumstances, I will take the point. If we had lost, everybody would be wishing we had held on and not conceded

[–]tocitusMemphis 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

My personal belief is that a point away at teams like Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Spurs are fine. I'm never going to argue with that but hopefully in the reverse fixtures we pick up 3 points in at least a few of the games.

[–]jazavchar -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I agree with you for the first four teams, but Spurs? I'll never be ok with us drawing or losing to them. It's Tottenham ffs

[–]tocitusMemphis 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

Like it or not, they have a pretty fantastic manager and a good team.

[–]SarcasticDevilRafael 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

if we had any other keeper in goal they would have won no problem.

I don't agree, any keeper can make superb saves. Of course, De Gea does it frequently and that's what makes him fantastic but they're not saves that are exclusive to the best keepers. Tom Heaton made the best save of the weekend and he plays for Burnley.

[–]slogankid1#BebeComeBack 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I really enjoyed most of that match despite not coming away with 3 points. I thought it was a tactically very disciplined performance and the cries of boring boring Man Utd from /r/soccer was delicious. MOTM Herrera and De Gea jointly for me with strong performances from Young and Valencia.

[–]DOOPISHARooney 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

I am honestly not too disappointed with the result. Away at Anfield with Liverpool being on a somewhat good run on form, what was Mourinho's really supposed to do? Risk playing a more offensive/exciting style at the expense of allowing a Liverpool side who are good on the counter to play a more open game? Mourinho did what he does best. He pissed every opposing football fan with a safe and boring, but effective defensive stlye because he knows the results have been disappounting recenty.

[–]danskzwag 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

Pogba and Zlatan were pathetic, Herrera has been class

[–]MrD3athGiggsy 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

Absolutely loving /r/liverpoolfc right now.

Death of football apparently.

Fucking hilarious!

Jose doesn't need to justify his approach to anyone. If we need to be defensive and play boring football in big games to win championships, so be it.

[–]Creamy_Goodne55 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

My personal favorite

Really embarrassing is having a €300mil team play like a sunday league bunch. They literally look like a group of 'big lads' off the streets put together to try and physically dominate a football pitch. Thats embarrassing. There was no football to be seen from Utd and all they did was deny Liverpool from playing football themselves. If all games were like this football would lose its excitement and its following. Fuck Mourinho

[–]D1794Viva Ronaldo[S] 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Grim when a Liverpool team can't score at home against a Sunday League bunch

[–]is-an-antWayne mother fuckin Rooney 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

before the game, I was wishing for a win but hoping for a draw. Liverpool were said to be favourites, with bad form and injuries on our side, they looked too dangerous to go for an all out attack strategy, so Mourinho played for the draw. His tactics were spot on and as he planned, we got the draw, I dont see why any united fan is complaining, they destroyed chelsea, obliterated leicester, ran riot against arsenal, and we got a point from them. I'm happy with our performance.

[–]is-an-antWayne mother fuckin Rooney 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

As for the 'parking the bus'.. pep did this exact same thing in the derby, first half attacked really well, tried to break down our defense and in the second half parked that bitch right up there.. only difference is that his players succeeded. It's only been, what, like 3 months since Jose is our manager? I have no doubt in time, once we become the team Jose envisions, we'll be right at the top where we belong

[–]Elinaeri 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Honest questions: Does no one know/remember how we played in key matches like this when Sir Alex was in charge? Does the majority really think that each and every single match should be played with high intensity, "good football" and a lot of goals? Is there any team in the history of Premier League to do this throughout a season?

From my point of view, it was perfectly clear what we wanted out of this game, and we achieved just that. No complaints. We unfortunately dropped 2 points at home against Stoke and did ourselves no favours having an extremely difficult run of games (Liverpool away, Fenerbahce, Chelsea away, City) ahead of it. It was absolutely crucial that we did not lose this game. And we did not.

Manchester United-Jose Mourinho relationship is a project that will be developed in upcoming years, it is not a 3 month job. This year is going to be tense and probably a little disappointing performance-wise, but if our own fans already start groaning after 10 games into the season when everything is still possible and wide open, then we have a mighty problem.

[–]ScotsmaniaHorny 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

Something to bear in mind is that the way we played last night conserved energy, something that is very important when you have 3 fixtures in the same week. Better to get a point from Liverpool than risking losing with a more attacking set up (and less than optimal wingers) and our players being exhausted come the weekend vs Chelsea. Don't forget they have no European football and their last game was Saturday so have a whole week to rest and focus on the game against us.

I suppose you can argue that we'll use different players against Fenerbace but the core will probably still play.

[–]MrD3athGiggsy 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

That's actually a very good point. But do the stats back this? That we didn't run much? It certainly felt that way

[–]highertellurianMata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I remember seeing the stats. Our team overall ran 12kms less. That's not a big difference if you ask me.

[–]Stalin_Fergie_Mao 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Herrera has guaranteed himself a starting place for Chelsea and deservedly so. He was near perfect last night.

Side note, is anyone as confident as I am going into the Chelsea game? If ever there was a game for Mourinho to flourish in, this is it.

[–]D1794Viva Ronaldo[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (4子コメント)

I dont doubt Mourinho wanted to win but saw the threat and countered against it. Van Gaal's United would've been battered last night.

Mourinho said it best. 65% possession and best attack in the league but don't score? That's not our fault, it's theirs. People may slate us for playing like shit but Mane, Coutinho, Sturridge and Firminho were more or less anonymous.

We had 1 big chance we fluffed and you need to take those with this playstyle. I'm not disappointed with the result. We looked tactically immense and broke them down magnificently.

If only we could flick a switch to turn on to ruthless-attack and we'd have the best of both worlds.

[–]AttackClown 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Van Gaals United won 4/4 games vs Liverpool, granted only 1 of which was against Klopp

[–]black_squireMartial 0ポイント1ポイント  (2子コメント)

How do you conclude LVGs United would have been battered ?

[–]D1794Viva Ronaldo[S] 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

Slow possession football vs quick possession football. We'd have been played off the park.

[–]black_squireMartial -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

We were only slow possession against teams sat back. How when teams tried to play us, we beat them. Spurs and Arsenal were the only teams we couldn't cope with and a lot of that was down to Darmian as RB.

[–]AttackClown 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I feel we had a personel problem. If we are to sit back so much we are playing for the counter attack right? If our wingers were basically playing wing backs, our counters are reliant on Pogba and Zlatan which just doesn't work. They were always the 2 farthest up the field and don't move enough to drag players away from eachother and they arn't fast enough to exploit any gaps. But they are also near undroppable

[–]cptainvimesDe Gea 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Didn't watch it. Too late . Worth spending time?

[–]highertellurianMata 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I choose to look at it this way. The result was a draw, but look at the two managers. Klopp was constantly frustrated whereas mourinho was calm as a cucumber. They played right into our tactics. The only thing missing was a clinical finish. This gives me immense confidence that we can tactically outplay even the most inform team when we aren't doing so well ourselves. These are the signs of a title winning team and I have complete faith in our manager.

[–]MrBenLadScholesy 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I'm really stuck between 2 conclusions after that game and it's been bugging me all night.

One the one hand, we did what we came here to do, shut down Liverpool, they couldn't play the way they wanted to, ended up frustrating every Liverpool fan in the world to no end doing it. (My liverpool mates gave me a load of uncalled for jip afterwards so that confirmed it for me)

On the other hand, I still expect us to be a bigger team than playing for a draw with the talent we have on the pitch vs Liverpool. I hope it's because of our current form vs Liverpool's is why he did this.

P.S. Fuck all the Liverpool fans saying we played 90 minutes with 10 men behind the ball, BULLSHIT, we beat them at their own press game in the first half, which worked really well. It was only when we ran out of pace for the counter (which jose mentioned) that we immediately went more defensive, and very well played too.

Onwards and upwards lads :)

[–]NGU-BenPogba 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

We need to buy another striker in January...

[–]forwardpass -1ポイント0ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most expensive team ever assembled, and we're setting up like Burnley.

Someone here made a really good point yesterday. If we set up like this at Anfield, what hope do we have vs. City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs away from home?

Is this the limit of our ambition? How much more money needs to be spent before we can play with confidence? I honestly preferred Van Gaal to this, at least he had a plan and some passion.