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Losing faith in Capitalism (self.Anarcho_Capitalism)

steeevemaddenH.L. Mencken が 投稿

I'm not sure I can justify Ancap-ism any more. Yes, the laws I despise are passed by crooked politicians. But who writes those laws? Lobbyists. And who employs those lobysists? Big business. They live by the profit motive, as do many of us. But they see that profit can result from cronyism and they take advantage. How can I support such a motive when it ultimately results in my loss of liberty?

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[–]steeevemaddenH.L. Mencken[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

please tell me how I'm wrong. i'm no fan of the other side (public ownership of the means of production), but i'm asking for some input from those of you who have spent some serious time studying capitalsm.

[–]NocPatDo as thou wilt, but be prepared to accept the consequences 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Capitalism:

  • "Personal property": Privately owned

  • "Means of productions": Privately owned

Fascism:

  • "Personal property": Privately owned

  • "Means of productions": Privately owned, government controlled

[–]Abolish_Taxation 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

You're describing what's commonly called "crony capitalism" although I prefer to call it crony market socialism since the problem is government intervention and control of the economy.

If the state didn't have any authority to control or manipulate the economy then there would be nothing for lobbyists and other special interests to buy and/or influence; this would be true free market capitalism.

[–]steeevemaddenH.L. Mencken[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

So you're saying that if there were "nothing to buy" there wouldn't exist this disdain for captitalism? I would suppose that as long as people believe in the necessity of coercion, that there will always be "something to buy".

[–]thingisthink 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, there will always be opportunities to bribe someone with some political advantage. Ancapism just minimizes concentration of political advantage. What's the alternative? More fascism?

[–]Abolish_Taxation 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

There will always be a disdain for capitalism(freedom) at least for some people regardless of how much wealth and prosperity it brings them. I'm saying that with genuine free market capitalism there's nothing for special interests to buy in the first place since the state doesn't have any authority to control or manipulate the economy.

[–]PlotinusGallacticus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

As long as you believe capitalists work in their self interest, then when they reach the top of great inequality they will try to escape markets to secure a monopoly. With the state they'd lobby for market intervention. In ancap you'd find some sleazy ones trying to slowly bring back the state, so other people would foot the bill for the private security they are currently paying for.

[–]Unironic_MonarchistI support family-owned small governments 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

Don't support a communally owned government that inevitably results in rent-seeking?

Why not support privately owned governments? What incentive is there for the owners of private governments to allow lobbying and cronyism on a grand scale? Not much at all, and if they could it is in the owners' direct self-interest to reduce the corruption because it comes out of their own profit margin.

In other words, systems of privately owned governments do not inevitably have structural rent-seeking problems. They may happen to have these problems due to accidents of history but the incentive structure is arranged to penalize this behavior rather than reward it as happens in communally owned governments like republics.

[–]PlotinusGallacticus 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

I hang out here because I'm a anarchist with no adjectives and see a place for ancap in a post-state society. That said, you and I think entirely alike.

I recommend you check out the markets over capitalism crowd at C4SS. They like Rothbard and tout him frequently, but are closer to his major influences: Spooner and Tucker. C4SS might also keep you from going to the dark side of the state...

[–]MengerianMangoCapitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

If government didn't exist to be bought, those lobbyists would have to do something productive with their lives and the businesses would have to earn their money by selling people things they want at a price they're willing to pay. Problem solved.

[–]EmpIStudiosVoluntarist 0ポイント1ポイント  (5子コメント)

The problem isn't business or the profit motive. The problem is that there's a State to pass and enforce those laws.

[–]steeevemaddenH.L. Mencken[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

Isn't it possible that the profit motive itself has lead to the formation of governments?

[–]EmpIStudiosVoluntarist 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

Governments exist because win-lose relationships are easier than win-win.

[–]steeevemaddenH.L. Mencken[S] 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

are they though? or are they just more desirable by the side that stands to gain. perhaps greed is the sin and not profit motive?

[–]MengerianMangoCapitalist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Barring a miracle, people will always be greedy. It's about having a system where they have to benefit others to benefit themselves. The market enforces this, but politics doesn't.

[–]EmpIStudiosVoluntarist 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

You just answered your own question, win-lose is the path of least resistance. After all, a bandit doesn't need to produce anything to profit.

People respond to incentives, and the State offers a massive incentive to businesses who can get control over it.