上位 200 件のコメント表示する 500

[–]Yossi25 4098ポイント4099ポイント  (1097子コメント)

And working class white men had lower incomes in 1996 than they did in 1986.

Workers wages have been going down for 30 years.

[–]givemeadamnname69 2802ポイント2803ポイント  (843子コメント)

Yeah, they've been trickling down since the 80s.

[–]KazarakOfKar 604ポイント605ポイント  (421子コメント)

That is because beginning in the mid to late 70's the majority of our industrial base and with it many skilled jobs has just evaporated. Cars, Steel, Shipbuilding, by in large our "heavy industry" is a shadow of what it was in the 70's, 80's and to a lesser extent 90's. With the end of the cold war much of our remaining heavy industry which was dedicated to the manufacture of arms evaporated too. What working class jobs are left? Basic trades which have seen wild fluctuations since 2000, a limited number of heavy industry jobs, oil jobs which fluctuate wildly due to oil pricing manipulation and "tech" jobs which are increasingly being outsourced or filled with H1B workers.

[–]Cheesy_Discharge 388ポイント389ポイント  (40子コメント)

One of the main reasons why these jobs "evaporated" was due to competition. The US economy was in an unsustainable bubble in the 1950s and 1960s. Europe and Japan were rebuilding from WWII and many other countries were stagnating under communism.

Once competition returned, the US manufacturing sector (which had grown bloated and resistant to change), was vulnerable. Many people had become accustomed to the unrealistic competition-free world, and some still think we can return to it if we just implement protectionism. They don't realize that the low-hanging fruit is all gone.

Globalization and free(ish) trade has led to the lowest rates of poverty the world has ever seen. Unfortunately, for the billions of winners, there have to be some losers. Those losers tend to be lower-skilled workers who live in rich countries which have become less competitive.

The transition would have been much less painful if we had maintained our educational standards, but our failing schools have doomed a large portion of the population to stagnant or falling incomes.

[–]fireh0use [スコア非表示]  (11子コメント)

Technology and automation are just as much of a contributing factor. American manufacturing is still one of the top in the world it just takes less employees to produce more these days

[–]stringer3494 [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

Yeah people don't understand how devastated the rest of planet was after WWll. It was like winning a push up contest at an AIDS clinic

[–]ShallowPedantic [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is pretty much the answer, but to be honest this trend was completely intentional. It is just far more profitable to outsource everything and then import it, the only barrier to doing this was tarrifs and economic protectionism, and we've been eroding those for years.

Competition would have been happening anyways, its just been streamlined and drastically accelerated and our society hasn't been able to keep up. A whole generation of people with a huge percentage that are essentially unable to start their lives. I think the idea that education=wealth is also beginning to erode as well. I'm finishing my MSc this year and, best case scenario, might land an entry level job in my field making barely above (or at) minimum wage. My highschool fiends that took apprenticeships are all making $60k/year easily, most making more from overtime hours. Two of them now own their own businesses and are extremely successful, and I know a few more that will probably be launching their own businesses.

This isn't anecdotal either, very few people end up actually able to use their degrees. We're the the most highly educated group of people in the history of the world but tons of people end up in menial low-paying service sector jobs because the demand just isn't there. The world needs scientists and artists and writers and doctors and lawyers, but it only needs so many of them. We have a massive glut of well educated people who have absolutely nowhere to apply their craft. It's nice to believe that better education might have solved this problem, but educated in what ? 'More' education clearly isn't the solution, never in the world has there been a more highly educated cohort. Perhaps education should have been more directed, but directed towards what ?

[–]canashian 288ポイント289ポイント  (149子コメント)

While you're right that we lost a of heavy industry, many (if not most) of these jobs were not "skilled", but semi-skilled or unskilled. Which is why they were so easily replaced by overseas labour, and why so many have trouble finding employment afterwards without extensive retraining.

[–]networknewjack 245ポイント246ポイント  (129子コメント)

It's also worth noting "skilled" labor is being outsourced because the barrier to said skills is much lower in a lot of countries. You want to be taught how to be a competent applications developer in the us? Be prepared to plunk down 70k. Other parts of the world? Free or damn near free.

[–]probo1 166ポイント167ポイント  (55子コメント)

Yeah there is no way that the student loan interest rates / tuition fees being as high as they are aren't going to negatively impact the US over time.

[–]imisstheyoop [スコア非表示]  (21子コメント)

Not to mention the fact that a lot of use who are buried by that debt are putting next to nothing back into the economy.

I can't afford to purchase a home, or buy a new car, or go out to eat as much as I would like or any of that other stuff because such a large portion of income is tied up in student loan repayments.

This is going to get worse before it gets better the way things are looking.

[–]diabetes_throwaway22 [スコア非表示]  (7子コメント)

Yeah, at which point some form of bailout will probably happen and those of us who have been paying in for years will get fucked.

[–]TimbuFTZB [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

maybe one day we'll get politicians to start giving a shit about the regular people

[–]indianapolis_cults [スコア非表示]  (10子コメント)

Just wait until millenials start hitting their 30s...when we're supposed to be the driving force behind the economy, but we're too buys paying of student loans to start families or buy houses and fill them will appliances. You think the great recession was bad, the next one will be way worse.

[–]ald49 [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Or wait until the millennial generation hits retirement age. That will be a crisis, especially since social security is probably going to be non existent by that point. Some I know are scraping together downpayments on cars and mortgages/getting help from family, but most I know in their late twenties/early to mid 30s have saved jack shit for retirement. I laughed when Fidelity reached out to me and told me that by my 30th birthday I should have saved at least 1x my yearly salary toward retirement to retire comfortably at the age of 65. Yeah, sure, Fidelity. Good luck finding people who can do that....

[–]halfcut [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

We're already well into our thirties. The oldest amongst us are rapidly approaching 40.

[–]kethian 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

over time...already...you know, same diff. I graduated in 2003 and the next year my university started a 25% tuition hike over the course of a couple years, its ridiculous.

[–]treycook 21ポイント22ポイント  (15子コメント)

Damn, I had never even thought of this.

[–]dagwood222 [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Yeah, it's almost like giving rich people lots of money doesn't help workers. Who could imaigine?

[–]EWSTW [スコア非表示]  (9子コメント)

O totally. It's killing us. When I graduated high school I wanted to go to school for engineering, as did a few of my friends. Most of us went to in state schools and came out with 70k in student loans. Which sucks, but it's do able. We all make good money.

One of our friends however, went to Germany. He got free tuition, got his degree, ended up staying there because he loves it there. Probably because he spent key years of his young adult life there. We're losing some of our smartest citizens because of this.

[–]treycook [スコア非表示]  (2子コメント)

Spent a bunch of money on German goods and contributed to the German economy as well, I'd imagine. We must be hemorrhaging GDP over this.

[–]Lumpyyyyy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I wish the US implemented a program to contribute student loan payments pre-tax like my 401k. I'd rather be able to pay off my student loans now at a guaranteed interest rate of 3-9% than contribute to my retirement at non-guaranteed rates.

[–]wisdumb [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

almost thirty, live at home with parents, I work full time but 13.75 isn't enough to pay for my student loans. because I got a job making 13.75 instead of the 11 from the previous job my loan payment is going up from 60bucks to 340 a month.

[–]Askanner [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Someone should short the student loans/tuition market. Looking at you Christian Bale.

[–]WiglyWorm 50ポイント51ポイント  (51子コメント)

Which is sad because there's literally nothing about programming you can't teach yourself.

I'm lucky enough to have gotten in to my field in the early 2000s where you could still just prove you know what you know by doing it. Nowadays they want you to have a four year degree, but even if you get that, you're still going to need to do internships or self learning and side projects to learn the skills companies actually want. That's because the tech landscape changes so fast that universities can't keep up.

[–]ejp1082 10ポイント11ポイント  (1子コメント)

For the top tier, highest paying jobs at the hot startups and tech firms, yeah that's mostly true.

But that's not the lions share of developer jobs. Most companies will interview you as long as your resume shows it won't be a waste of their time, and as long as you can answer (basic) tech questions and pass whatever test they throw at you you'll likely get hired and make relatively good money compared to most industries. Lots of people can and do get hired without a comp sci degree.

[–]_AlreadyTaken_ 97ポイント98ポイント  (8子コメント)

And those jobs got replaced with much lower paying, nonunion, service jobs

[–]IPlayTheInBedGame 92ポイント93ポイント  (119子コメント)

I'm not knowledgeable about the rest of your post, but I am a software developer who has spent a decent amount of time assisting with recruitment and interviewing. There was a period where companies were trying to outsource development to places like India, but then they realized that the brain pool there kinda sucks for that work. Lots of little things make it less efficient to develop in Asia. Language barrier, lack of understanding of the needs of the customer, lack of education infrastructure. There are absolutely some super intelligent and capable people in software development in India, but it's not the norm and most of them have already been sucked into managing teams there instead of actually coding. They're great for cheap QA testing and support, but they don't produce great code as a general rule.

Also, H1B is really difficult to get. Only large companies have the resources to push one through. Right now the developer pool in the U.S. is pretty dry. There are waaay more jobs in this industry than qualified people to do them. My current company and the one I worked for previously have had .Net roles open for months and they can't find anyone qualified to fill them. That's the purpose of H1B. When you can't fill a role with a citizen, you can fill it with a foreigner.

[–]pewpfeast420 48ポイント49ポイント  (6子コメント)

Top talent is hard as fuck to find, but the work the vast majority of companies do doesn't require top talent and they shoot themselves in the foot with shit listings and then complain about how we need more H1Bs to fill roles instead of taking someone who's smart but not necessarily experienced and training them for the role on the job.

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of these places also tend to be .NET or Java shops.

[–]Alis451 10ポイント11ポイント  (0子コメント)

Requires 10 years experience with Swift...

Yeah... gl with that one

[–]CascadianMan 12ポイント13ポイント  (26子コメント)

I'm a Technical Support Specialist with compTIA A+ and Net+. Coming up on 2 years experience.

I've been realizing over the last year that unless I begin to learn how to code something, it will be extremely difficult to escape the "Help Desk trap" and advance my career. I'm also in my mid 30's and would like to see my pay get above 40k/year in the next few years. Currently, i don't see how that is going to happen unless I learn to code.

What's hot right now? These open positions with not enough supply - what are they for?

EDIT: I should state that i'm a horrible typer. I love computers and i love interacting with people, but coding may be difficult for me.

[–]Tjstretchalot 56ポイント57ポイント  (37子コメント)

Did those roles see increases in wages as it went on, or offer on the job training for developers from other languages? A lot of openings will have unnecessarily specific requirements (you don't need a C# developer, or someone with 2 years experience with <specific library>, you need a developer). These are easier to find with h1bs because they can either lie,or often go through degree / experience mills.

Don't slice up your applicant pool beyond recognition and it becomes a lot easier to find one

[–]r-selectors 83ポイント84ポイント  (33子コメント)

Seriously, people used to receive on the job training, and probably didn't have any significant debt from schooling. Saying H1B visas are necessary is a cop out.

[–]ifailatusernames 11ポイント12ポイント  (7子コメント)

This is spot on. There might be a shortage of senior developers with expertise in a specific lang/lib but there are people who can learn available. Because we have built a system where there are zero incentives for employer and employee loyalty, though, nobody wants to pay to train someone who will likely leave shortly after their skills reach useful levels. This is especially true for developers who can command high salaries for that training period. The economics is what is driving the desire for more H1Bs, which is not what they are designed for.

[–]_AlreadyTaken_ 18ポイント19ポイント  (3子コメント)

Just the fact that you have to have meetings at either 11-12 pm or 7-8 am with India makes it bad enough. If anything comes up in the middle of the day that means you can't address it all day.

[–]van-dango 24ポイント25ポイント  (24子コメント)

Which

yep all I need to do is learn to code between my three jobs (that shouldn't be too difficult), then take my $150 a month surplus earnings and go to college. Then work an unpaid internship for a couple years, and hopefully get hired somewhere... which assuming I could start at a college today would mean I would be 40 after all is said and done.... good thing I already live in a van, that should keep costs down.

[–]thenumber24 22ポイント23ポイント  (12子コメント)

You don't need college to learn to code. You don't work unpaid internships in software development either. It's basically unheard of. If you weren't being sarcastic, and If you really want to learn development, pm me and I'll give you resources to study from. hell, I'll even mentor you and teach you.

Source: am software engineer.

[–]Rafaelzo 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

Certified welders, blacksmiths and boiler makers are Big trades

[–]INmySTRATEjaket 1103ポイント1104ポイント  (343子コメント)

Oh, so that's trickle down economics.

Edit: It was a simple joke based on the words in the comment i replied to. I have my own political ideology and sincerely don't care to hear anyone's who feels the need to spout theirs in response to this comment.

[–]CornCobbDouglas 37ポイント38ポイント  (24子コメント)

This is one specific group. Let's look at the wages of white women, or men with college degrees.

That drop is largely due to loss of manufacturing jobs which largely went to white men without college degrees (and black men). So as that sector of the labor market collapsed replaced by higher skilled jobs, the average for white men as a whole fell.

[–]Hyrc 21ポイント22ポイント  (4子コメント)

The economy has shifted in the last 30 years, more people have moved to higher income tiers and more have moved to lower income tiers. Those with valuable skills are making more and those without are making less for precisely the reasons you stated.

[–]PapaOoomaumau 355ポイント356ポイント  (31子コメント)

Yeah, and CEO compensation has quadrupled, or better. There's not less money in the market, it's just that wage regulations have been repeatedly slashed, and someone's getting paid - it's just not YOU.

[–]DrDisastor 261ポイント262ポイント  (10子コメント)

quadrupled

Quadrupled? Try again.

tl;dr

"From 1978 to 2014, inflation-adjusted CEO compensation increased 997 percent, a rise almost double stock market growth and substantially greater than the painfully slow 10.9 percent growth in a typical worker’s annual compensation over the same period."

[–]Kravego 36ポイント37ポイント  (3子コメント)

I read that as 10.9% growth annually and I was like fuck yeah! I want that job!

Then I realized I'm an idiot.

[–]maul_walker 34ポイント35ポイント  (1子コメント)

This guy gets it. Robert Reich made this point, CEO-to-worker pay ratio has increased ten times over.

[–]treycook 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

And the important thing is not the dollars they have that could be elsewhere. Taking their entire paycheck and dispersing it among their employees wouldn't amount to much per worker. The important thing is that they make such an obscene amount, that it rapidly shifts the motives of the company to a pure profit motive.

Imagine if a CEO's salary was locked at an upper limit of $250,000. They wouldn't personally benefit from increased financial performance at that point, so their decisions wouldn't be influenced by personal gain.

[–]SuperCashBrother 53ポイント54ポイント  (2子コメント)

Nonono stop it's not the CEOs to blame. It's immigrants and job stealing countries. Surely it's their fault that all the wealth is being funneled to the 1%.

[–]BtmnDetroitDeserves 218ポイント219ポイント  (27子コメント)

And it's true of black working-class men too. I am not sure why the article only focuses on white men. It makes for better clickbait, I guess.

http://stateofworkingamerica.org/great-recession/falling-income-rising-poverty/

http://money.cnn.com/2016/03/15/news/economy/blacks-trump-obama/

[–]Kalarian_Reborn 247ポイント248ポイント  (14子コメント)

Because if it included everyone people could make the argument that minorities were bringing the averages down. Which is true. They wanted to emphasize that whites are being affected by this on their own, just like every other class. That way apologists can't use minorities as an excuse.

[–]DrunkGordonBombay 268ポイント269ポイント  (109子コメント)

Workers wages have been going down for 30 years.

No. Despite the narrative, this just isn't true. The only demographic with slightly lower income over time is uneducated white males, while women, minorities, and educated white males have seen incomes grow significantly, in real terms. Check the data.

White males' median income is currently (2015) slightly below its level as of 1998, but higher than every other year previously recorded, inflation adjusted.

In this table specifically, male earnings for High School Graduates is $37,003, compared to $38,168 in 1991 (inflation adjusted). That's a mere 3% drop, not the cause of doom-and-gloom you'd expect from the article (which has less robust data, as well). During the same period, female median earnings for HS grads rose 18% (granted, they increased to higher levels in the early 2000s before decreasing to current levels).

What's also counter to the reddit narrative, straight from OP's article: "Meanwhile, college educated white men saw their income soar nearly 23% over the same period, from $77,209 to $94,601."

From a previous comment to combat "the world is falling" attitude: First, there's a huge missing factor in reddit's dicsussion of a declining middle class, and it's not because the middle class is getting poorer.

Next, regarding globalization and free trade, and how reddit seems to agree that it's terrible and will make us poorer, just know that virtually no serious economist would agree with you.

Are we so much worse off now that median incomes have "stagnated"? Not really.

Look at actual data regarding incomes. I'm not saying the world is peachy and fair, but after skimming the comments here, you'd think we're in crisis mode.

Here. More actual data. Every demographic is making more money than 1950 or 1970, inflation adjusted.

Regarding how we're slaves and overworked and working harder for less money, it's just not true. Working hours are declining and have been steadily over time in the US. (That entire article is worth the read, and while the data don't appear current, it's a well-known trend that work hours are decreasing generally. More stats here.)

[–]Yossi25 128ポイント129ポイント  (70子コメント)

I'm not expert at all. But I don't really know anybody making 37k (roughly 18 an hour full time) with just a high school diploma.

Most are making like $12 an hour. Moreso 10 an hour.

[–]blumka 92ポイント93ポイント  (11子コメント)

Because most people you know are young.

[–]AshFirecrest [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

This is the answer. When it says "HS Diploma", that includes people like my father - who is 63 years old and makes well into six figures - and who never graduated college.

A lot of people equate that "HS Diploma" with "just out of HS". But that's not what it means.

[–]TheDracula666 [スコア非表示]  (5子コメント)

Thats my thought as well. I'm 33 and I only have a high school diploma and make roughly 37k a year. However thats only with my recent promotion. I've worked in logistics for the past 7 years with the same company and basically slowly climbed the ladder. With the experience under my belt now I have looked around and have seen similar jobs where I can make roughly 25 - 30 an hour. There are totally fields where a high school diploma is sufficient to make a comfortable living but you need to put the time in to get the experience needed to move upwards. However I also live in Chicago where the cost of living is insane so that 37k still feels like paycheck to paycheck.

[–]344dead 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

I only have a high school diploma and I make 115k a year before benefits. I work in IT though and it's one of the few industries where experience far outweighs education and I've got about 10 years in the industry under my belt.

[–]Garfield379 20ポイント21ポイント  (8子コメント)

I would say this is more accurate to my life experience as well. I live in a lower income area but HS diplomas don't get you 37k unless you are a lucky mother fucker

[–]Captain_Clark 118ポイント119ポイント  (40子コメント)

I think this point needs to be considered. I'm a white male with no college education. I was 30 years old in 1996. I earn less as a web developer than my Union construction-working father did in 1970. But I live just as well, or better than did he.

My car lasts longer and is safer, my city is less polluted, my opportunity for self-education is greater, my retirement account is larger, my countrymen are not sent to war, my community is more diverse and tolerant, my house is smaller but nicer and safer, my life expectancy is longer, and I'm holding a device in my hand which connects me to the entire world and has more computational power than ran the Apollo missions. Really - I could learn an entire career skill right now - without even leaving my chair; how does one calculate that opportunity in dollars against 1996?

I'm not saying that we are living in some sort of paradise but there are many ways to consider ones Quality of Life beyond money alone. Because; if you make less money than your father did but that money obtains more than it ever offered him, that's not a loss. It's simply a change, and it can't be counted in dollars alone.

I began working in my career in 1986, for $3.85/hour at the age of twenty. Minimum wage then was $3.35 in my state. That's $7.30 today, inflation adjusted. The rent is higher today, but the products are better, the lifestyle is better.

[–]Dadburi 1609ポイント1610ポイント  (801子コメント)

Sounds about right. I could get a job for $12 an hour when I was a teenager in the late 90s early 2000s. It wasn't even hard to do. Rent, food and fuel were considerably cheaper. From my perspective wages have been going down since I entered the work force.

[–]YeastInVagMakesBread 697ポイント698ポイント  (640子コメント)

I'm 22, college graduate, started my current job a month ago and I'm shocked it pays as much as $12/hr. It didn't even need a degree.

Though after taxes it's more like $8.50/hr..

Edit: also I was told by HR after I got hired there were 80-90 applications for my position.

[–]KneeDeepInTheDead 449ポイント450ポイント  (486子コメント)

27 and making 16 an hour after college in my field lol not sure how im supposed to adult on these wages

EDIT: Graphic Design/Production Artist for those wondering

[–]bullyx22 503ポイント504ポイント  (357子コメント)

24, making $38/hour after trade school. It's better to pick up a trade these days.

Edit: I'm a High Pressure Plant Tender, for those that asked. And also, there's a million different types of engineering fields. The one I'm in is for Plant Operations/Building Engineering/Operating Engineers/Stationary Engineering.

[–]eits1986 243ポイント244ポイント  (185子コメント)

Amen. If I could do it again, I'd immediately skip engineering and go into welding or woodworking. Not a joke.

[–]bullyx22 163ポイント164ポイント  (137子コメント)

Engineers make more than steamfitters, iron workers and carpenters. Don't get me wrong, all make great money. Great benefits, unions, etc. but Engineers, Oilers, Plant Tenders, Refrigeration Mechanics, they make tons.

[–]SardinesGivePower 149ポイント150ポイント  (75子コメント)

It depends on the person. A lot of people get degrees they shouldn't be getting and then complain when they can't find work.

The two main trading desk guys at my last job had Engineering Degrees. They decided to go the Finance route and both make 500k+ a year. However, if you're that guy that barely graduates and really shouldn't have gotten that degree... odds are you're not finding a job worth going into that major.

[–]dragon_engine22 66ポイント67ポイント  (12子コメント)

However, if you're that guy that barely graduates and really shouldn't have gotten that degree...

Way too many people fall under this category. Most of the people complaining about being unable to find work after graduating with X degree are usually people who barely graduated or cruised through their time in school doing the bare minimum.

I work at a large multinational tech company in a big city and we can't hire enough engineering graduates. Our company hires them right out of school and we bring in a lot of paid interns every quarter who often get hired on afterwards. However, every department I've seen is picky. We don't just turn people down for jobs/internships because their resume sucks or their qualifications suck, it's because we get better applicants who actually leveraged their time in university to improve themselves.

[–]shinazueli 22ポイント23ポイント  (0子コメント)

This. I don't do hiring at this job, someone else does, but I used to before I switched careers. 95% of the people coming in with a degree in X field should have just learned a trade. They're completely useless in the field because they wasted their time for four years instead of learning about their chosen profession.

I'm talking cannot do basic shit that is taught in first year courses bad.

[–]HotCarls 11ポイント12ポイント  (0子コメント)

Most of the people complaining about being unable to find work after graduating with X degree are usually people who barely graduated or cruised through their time in school doing the bare minimum.

I had a masters in Accountancy and just finished my CPA. I received several academic scholarships throughout college. I had tons of recommendations from professors.

I had to work a temp job for 12 dollars an hour for over a year and a half before I could even get an interview with a company. I ended up going into corporate finance/accounting. I was so overqualified for my job that I actually got the lady that I was covering for fired, which felt awful. They realized all the work she did could be done in under an hour. I would sit at my desk studying for my last section of the CPA for 6 hours a day basically.

The point is, people like to rationalize why others can't find jobs, but sometimes it's just awful luck. I was more qualified that a lot of people I knew in the same field that landed jobs, but it doesn't matter who is more qualified when your resume gets thrown in the trash right away because the hiring manager doesn't like your school, or they know one of the other applicants.

My former boss at my current company would hire someone simply because they went to his school.

[–]iekiko89 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

As someone who recently graduated with a mech eng degree what can I do to improve my option

Also can I apply at your company?

[–]obliviousdad1981 11ポイント12ポイント  (16子コメント)

I'm a software engineer and if I could do it again I'd probably go for industrial HVAC. A friend does it and makes about as much as I do working 40 hours.

I love my work and it supports my family with plenty of wiggle room, but it consumes my life. It's rare for me to work less than 60 hours a week and I can easily get to 80+ in crunch time.

[–]Roflllobster [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

It's rare for me to work less than 60 hours a week and I can easily get to 80+ in crunch time.

That's not software engineering. Thats just your job.

[–]Engineerchic 36ポイント37ポイント  (31子コメント)

But to be an engineer you lose 4-5 years of income and pay for tuition. Even if you get tuition down to $20k, you're looking at spending $80k while missing out on $120k+ of income. It's like starting out $200k in the hole compared to a trade. I'm an engineer and the big benefit IMHO is having a job I can do as I get older and start realizing that my body isn't capable of doing heavy physical work any longer.

[–]TaddyMasin 71ポイント72ポイント  (14子コメント)

Or you could just go in state and not spend over 2x the national average tuition of the U.S.

Also, that's the exact reason I know a bunch of people who swapped at 35+ to engineering.

[–]RTrooper 16ポイント17ポイント  (8子コメント)

No idea where a $20k tuition number is coming from unless he's talking private school. I'm at an in-state state school and my tuition is only $6k.

Edit: the $6k number is for tuition alone. Tuition and fees is just under $10k.

[–]sorry_wasntlistening 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

I was in state at 12k. If you had to live there it was 23k not including books, food, fees, etc...

[–]RecklessLitany 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

Your tuition is 3k a semester? Cuz they're talking about tuition/year, and I'm pretty certain your 6k figure is / semester

[–]mikekowa 22ポイント23ポイント  (8子コメント)

Not even a trade, but I took a two year Electrical Engineering Technology diploma at SAIT and am making some really good money at 27, and school was dirt cheap.

[–]fencerman 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

If you're in Alberta, the economy there doesn't really resemble the rest of the country.

[–]turningpoint84 4ポイント5ポイント  (9子コメント)

Where are you working? My starting salary was $25/hr with no experience in 2007 with a BSME. I was making $35/hr at one point, but left engineering to pursue a career in real estate development, but I still make $29/hr...

[–]skinrust 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

I went to college (and graduated) for electrical engineering tech. I am now a 3rd year plumber. Trades are great.

[–]WYSIWYG89 55ポイント56ポイント  (70子コメント)

This. It's sad, but reality, that folks these days "look down" on jobs or occupations that require working with your hands.

[–]LowChoBro 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

What trade if you mind me asking?

[–]TaddyMasin 7ポイント8ポイント  (31子コメント)

What job and degree?

Emt?

[–]NathanBarnes 21ポイント22ポイント  (11子コメント)

I suppose it depends where you live, but EMTs and Paramedics really don't make very good money.

In my area, EMTs start out at $9.50, and Medics start at about $12.

[–]DayDreamingDriver 17ポイント18ポイント  (7子コメント)

It baffles me that they're so underpaid (in the US I believe). Here in Canada they would get paid so much more, not sure how much but at least the dispatchers are getting at least 25-30/hr.

I get ~15/hr as a dispatcher in an alarm surveillance company--not even 911 and it's exponentially less work than the EMTs.

[–]TelaTheSpy 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

Because it's privatized in many areas.

[–]NathanBarnes 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

The fact that the education standards for EMTs/Paramedics in the US are lower than in may parts of the world factors into it a lot.

In the US, a paramedic doesn't even need an associates (some colleges offer the program as part of degree, but it isn't a requirement).

[–]loosesealbluth15 22ポイント23ポイント  (15子コメント)

HAHAHA $12/hr as an EMT? Only if you're working in a major city and even then it's probably not 12. Otherwise it's minimum wage. Or a dollar or two above it.

[–]qwertyslayer 11ポイント12ポイント  (4子コメント)

Man, I thought for sure the sarcasm in that comment was headed the other way. Minimum wage for saving lives. That's insane.

[–]badabinglove 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

people dony realize the cost of screwing a sector of work that is important. Im a straight A student(in hard science classes), I am calm under pressure. I would be a great EMT or paramedic but since they pay absolute dog shit I can't put myself in such a compromising position even though I would like the work and be good at it and the community would benefit from having talent in that position. when we don't compensate for talent you are basically saying we want mcdonalds employees to take care of your child after a horrible accident.....its so stupid as a society.

[–]ratherbealurker 157ポイント158ポイント  (50子コメント)

who was paying teenagers $12 an hour in the 90's??

$5-$7 was normal for those types of jobs. I had to work at a moving company to make more than that during college.

[–]AbstractLogic 78ポイント79ポイント  (20子コメント)

I made $7 per hour at party city. I made $60 a day under the table at a restaurant doing dishes. I think the most I ever made before getting a career job was $10 per hour as a mover.

Selling weed was way more profitable

[–]ChiefFireTooth 27ポイント28ポイント  (9子コメント)

At age 21, in 1998, I took my first job in the US: entry level phone support job, zero qualifications required. They were literally accepting anyone that showed up.

The job payed $14/hr. Inflation adjusted, that would be about $20/hr in 2016.

[–]glutenfree123 1238ポイント1239ポイント  (250子コメント)

Fuck.

I have a college degree but I make as much as a high school drop out.

I hate my life and feel like a piece of shit.

[–]Classy_Debauchery 503ポイント504ポイント  (9子コメント)

Hello fellow piece of shit!

[–]ah_hell 116ポイント117ポイント  (6子コメント)

Watch out for Shooter. I heard he eats pieces of shit for breakfast.

[–]TrollsForSale 36ポイント37ポイント  (4子コメント)

Just stay out of his way... or you'll pay! LISTEN to what I say!

[–]maxout2142 118ポイント119ポイント  (16子コメント)

Felt pretty crummy realizing that my job would have no need for a degree if they would just train us properly.

[–]mainman879 89ポイント90ポイント  (11子コメント)

Many more jobs than people realise could easily be this way

[–]thesuper88 23ポイント24ポイント  (5子コメント)

It's true. Apprenticeship is more effective for many jobs, yet we don't value them or even perform them very often outside the trades, which as we can see, are going away.

Shit I would love to learn to code but I would need someone paying me and training me at the same time.

[–]TessDevin 11ポイント12ポイント  (2子コメント)

Pretty much every job in history was done based on training/apprenticeship. Formal education, and especially needing a degree is a very new concept.

[–]Pryzbo 124ポイント125ポイント  (35子コメント)

Me too. What's worse is had I not gone to college and been working a retail or service job I would be in a much better position (probably would have advanced or at least received raises.) The regret and depression now dictate my life.

[–]Trailer_Park_Stink 45ポイント46ポイント  (21子コメント)

Just wait a couple more years. That degree will be worth more than your retail experience.

[–]Pryzbo 63ポイント64ポイント  (8子コメント)

I'm incredibly doubtful but I appreciate your support :)

[–]Skizzaa 23ポイント24ポイント  (3子コメント)

As a college drop out, it's true. I lied to myself that I was better off. Now that a few year has passed , it feels Iike i have capped out. I'm in finance and any jobs out there are horizontal moves or I'm under qualified. I'm going back to get the degree so I continue to progress in my career.

[–]humblepotatopeeler 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

This kid in highschool dropped out to become a mechanic.

All the fucking teachers talked so much shit about his dropping out, how he's going to amount to nothing, be a loser, be dead by 30 (no joke, teacher actually said this).

Now that kid is doing far better than 95% of the graduating class(based on facebook).

He now runs 4 fucking auto shops, and has already started a solar panel company.

This kid was a D student that was constantly berated for being a bad student because he didn't want to learn absolutely fucking meaningless things.

Fucking education system is garbage.

P.S. bitch that had an argument with him on facebook about 9 years ago for dropping out, being as judgmental as a privileged know it all with zero life experience can be. Now she's got a Masters in some useless field, doesn't have a job, lives at home with mom and dad. Complains to her friends about how her parents don't give her enough money.

While the dropout is paying for his mom's cruise vacations, and his dad's medical bills.

Sigh... the sheep have been herded.

[–]a_clockwork_outrage 786ポイント787ポイント  (213子コメント)

Suckers! I have my bachelors and my masters and I make $15K a year.

And people say degrees in the humanities don't pay off.

EDIT: I didn't mean this as a complaint. I'm quite glad to have the work. I was on the verge of applying for fast food jobs when this freelance writing gig came along. The pay is low, but I get to work from home, so I've got that going for me which is nice.

[–]basedgodsavedmylife 259ポイント260ポイント  (113子コメント)

wtf do you do that pays $15k a year?

[–]loafula 309ポイント310ポイント  (80子コメント)

stocking shelves at Old Navy! and we get a sweet 3% employee discount

edit: just making a joke. I don't work at Old Navy

[–]basedgodsavedmylife 59ポイント60ポイント  (68子コメント)

Where do you live that you can't use your bachelors or Masters to get a job?

[–]stabsthedrama 130ポイント131ポイント  (35子コメント)

A lot of people are too stubborn to leave their area even if the population is in the hundreds for hundreds of miles. Moving to a city is a big leap though, and you spend so much money to live in them it almost breaks even anyway. However that's where advancement happens.

This is why you dont get a degree for some fancy shmancy study in east bumblefuck without a plan to gtfo.

[–]Imbris2 58ポイント59ポイント  (17子コメント)

Ding ding ding! I have an old friend who lives in Nowheresville, NY and complained for months (on Facebook) about not being able to find a teaching job out of college and how awful it is. Meanwhile my cousin just graduated looking for the exact same type of job - went to his school's job fair and got offered over ten solid teaching jobs on the spot (various parts of the country). I finally just has to ask my old friend about her job hunt - "well...I want to stay local, so I really haven't been looking outside of my county." My god.

[–]gyaradosB4cerulean 17ポイント18ポイント  (3子コメント)

outside of my county

Yeah, well, good luck lmao. I'm searching from London to Kingston along the 401 basically. Within 7 hours of home, right?!

Never really understood how people will pay dozens of thousands of dollars to go get a degree that they can't apply where they want to live.

[–]MundaneSociopath 45ポイント46ポイント  (25子コメント)

That's a fairly typical graduate stipend. I'm guessing working on a PhD.

[–]troymen11 29ポイント30ポイント  (18子コメント)

Is that the norm? I thought it was higher. My PhD stipend is $28,500 a year.

[–]PM_ME_YOUR_SPUDS 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

It really varies on school, program, and where you live. But $1200/month is much more typical than $2400. I'm lucky to be around the midpoint, and I still can barely afford rent + food.

[–]MundaneSociopath 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

You are definitely at the higher end.

[–]WorkFlow_ 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

Then isn't that a bit disingenuous? I mean that isn't really working. That is continuing your education for a PhD and getting a stipend.

[–]jim45804 31ポイント32ポイント  (1子コメント)

Use your humanities degree to be creative about your job opportunities.

[–]seanlax5 48ポイント49ポイント  (5子コメント)

You may need to take some personal responsibility. That just doesn't make sense in any of my experiences.

[–]SICCNESS206 134ポイント135ポイント  (25子コメント)

Awesome, not only do I have to come to my shitty job everyday, but now I get to come to my shitty job everyday and make less than i would have 20 years ago. Cool, I'll go home driving my car I can't afford, to my rental I can't afford and feed my family Top Ramen that I actually can afford.

[–]WallOfSleep56 84ポイント85ポイント  (7子コメント)

Solution - Make house and car out of ramen

[–]KatalDT 36ポイント37ポイント  (6子コメント)

You're thinking too big. Just make the family out of Top Ramen, the rest will become affordable.

[–]Panigus 12ポイント13ポイント  (2子コメント)

This is so depressing but the one thing to remember is that it isn't a race issue and it never has been. It's a CLASS issue. The working class, of all races, needs to come together and demand better treatment.

It doesn't matter if you're black, white, whatever. All working class people have basically the same interests. It's the corporate class who plays you off against each other. They always have and they always will. In reality, a white man who works as a fry-cook has more in common with a black man who works as a fry-cook than he does with a white man who owns a multi-million dollar business.

[–]NoFunHere 509ポイント510ポイント  (289子コメント)

This probably surprises nobody. The thing that surprises me is that people make this a partisan issue, trotting out the same lines and same boring policy we have heard for decades.

Both parties have contributed to the systematic export of manufacturing jobs. You cannot replace those jobs by providing tax cuts to the rich. Likewise, you can't replace the effect of those jobs simply by increasing minimum wage or engaging in class warfare.

[–]Arktus_Phron 61ポイント62ポイント  (37子コメント)

I'm by far not an expert in economics, but I learned enough for my degrees. Manufacturing is a red herring. The basic theory is as a country advances (modernizes its economy, builds more tech industries, refocuses to service and finance, etc) the share of the economy held by manufacturing decreases.

And because of this we have a deluge of unskilled laborers in a country where, at the minimum, skilled labor is the most economical. We don't need a guy on the line tightening lugnuts or someone who assembles packaging. Those jobs are either automated, sent abroad, or some combination of the two, which is becoming more prevalent (see: Mexico).

I honestly don't have an answer on how to fix it, but the country hemorrhaging manufacturing jobs is not necessarily a bad thing if you have a government system to support them. The best thing I can think of is to create small-scale, high-tech manufacturing industries (solar panels, medical devices, etc), leverage an unskilled jobs program similar to the New Deal (our infrastructure is in need of serious upgrading), or incentivize people to retrain (2-yr community colleges are already basically free, but it still costs money to support a family). But the basic solution would be to ensure the next generation of workers is equipped with the basic knowledge to enter into a skilled or educated industry.

[–]Bearracuda 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

This is basically Jill Stein's economic model. She gets shit on in the media because she's made some stupid statements in the past, but if you actually listen to her policies, a lot of them are reasonably sensible alternatives to what we've been doing for the past 40 years.

And she's a decent human being, to boot, unlike the two talking heads that the Democratic and Republican parties are trying to force us to vote for.

[–]rbb36 47ポイント48ポイント  (27子コメント)

Far from fixing it by giving tax cuts to the rich, think about how taxes work. Selective taxes act as friction on cashflow. We put taxes on gasoline and cigarettes to reduce the flow into those sectors of the economy. That money subsequently flows into other goods and services.

The same thing happens with cashflow to people. If you reduce taxes on the highest income brackets, cashflow shifts into that sector from other business expenditures. Over the past 40 years of economic testing, we have seen employment income flows shift from the bottom 85% to the top 0.1%.

That would be a good thing if the result had been an increase in GDP growth rate. It would indicate that we were justly paying the wealthy more for contributing more to our economy. That has not been the case. GDP growth has fallen over the past 40 years. We have increased compensation to a sector of the economy at the expense of another, and have lost overall production at the same time. Any reasonable scientist would agree that it is time to test another hypothesis, as this one appears to be disproven.

[–]JackPAnderson 33ポイント34ポイント  (20子コメント)

We put taxes on gasoline and cigarettes to reduce the flow into those sectors of the economy.

We put taxes on gasoline and cigarettes because the demand for them isn't very elastic. What are you going to do? Stop smoking? Stop driving to work?

It's a steady, dependable source of revenue.

[–]GrogansNeckRoll[🍰] 9ポイント10ポイント  (4子コメント)

Exactly. Marijuana isn't taxed to the tits in Colorado to deter people from buying it. It's taxed to the tits because they know people wil buy it regardless.

[–]NoFunHere 37ポイント38ポイント  (3子コメント)

Any reasonable scientist would agree that it is time to test another hypothesis, as this one appears to be disproven.

I disagree with your statement. A reasonable scientist would not look at data accumulated over time, where nearly every single variable changed and there was no control case, and then choose one single variable, weigh the correlation, and make a declaration as bold as yours. Science doesn't work that way and pretending that tax law is the only variable at play shows a horrible misunderstanding of both the issue and science.

Here is a graph of income in America. Tax law may well have contributed to that. I would go so far as to say it is likely. If I take the start of the divergence to be mid 70's, we can start to list the things that have changed during that time:

  • The rise of the Middle East
  • Nixon's trip to China preceded the mid-70's but the start of China as a manufacturing base can be traced to that time.
  • The rise in popularity of Japanese cars
  • Free trade agreements
  • Disproportionate environmental regulations between countries
  • Taxes, on every level
  • Systematic weakening of unions

So, just curious, how do you ignore every variable and declare that "reasonable scientists" would ignore them as well?

[–]Bellyheart 140ポイント141ポイント  (54子コメント)

Everyone does. It is so shitty. I really hope something changes.

I'm glad I don't want kids because I'd be stressed out not being able to afford it and not being able to afford college to be able to afford children.

[–]alphabeto9 44ポイント45ポイント  (28子コメント)

What would change though? The world is becoming more and more global and the US is still on the high side. Doesn't help when the government pushes deals like NAFTA and TPP.

[–]Skellum 46ポイント47ポイント  (8子コメント)

Workers rights in other nations. Ending the wealth gap. There is more wealth in the world than in the 90s, it's simply being captured by fewer people.

[–]sw04ca 7ポイント8ポイント  (5子コメント)

I think that raising most of Asia out of abject poverty has also had an effect. We've reduced the wealth gap between nations by exporting work that can be done for affordably elsewhere and importing poverty. Honestly, I'm not sure that there's any way to fix what we've done except by returning to nations set against each other.

[–]Bonerballs 229ポイント230ポイント  (314子コメント)

The youngest group of working class white men, who were 25 to 26 in 1996, saw their incomes rise by 19%, from $32,677 to $38,803, over the 18-year period. However, their college educated peers enjoyed a 133% explosion in their incomes, from $40,487 to $94,252.

Post secondary education, folks.

Edit: PEOPLE, read the article. College educated peers STARTED at $40,487 and after 18 years had a salary of $94,252. They don't start at $94,252.

[–]FrankTheBlackGuy 141ポイント142ポイント  (39子コメント)

Minus inflation.

You would need to make 60,000 in 2014 to equal the amount you made in 1996 (40,000).

Similarly, if you made 32,000 in 1996, you would need to make 48,000 in 2014 to break even. The youngest group's income actually went down substantially.

Also, you forgot this part of the article:

When it came to the oldest cohort, who were 43 to 44 in 1996, both working class and college educated white men saw their incomes fall over the period. But the working class still fared worse, suffering a 47% drop in income, from $51,491 to $27,230. Men with college diplomas, however, saw their incomes fall 28.5%, from $95,734 to $68,406.

[–]Bonerballs 47ポイント48ポイント  (34子コメント)

You forgot the paragraph after that one you quoted.

This decline among older workers stems in part from people who left the labor force or shifted to part-time work, which pulls down the average income for the group, said Gordon Green, co-author of the report.

I'd like to see a study on the income of working class minorities and see how they compare though.

[–]chrom_ed 53ポイント54ポイント  (21子コメント)

You think that was on purpose though? No one wants to hire older workers now, and staying at the same company until your pension is not the option it once was. Being shunted off to part time jobs has the same effect as lowered wages.

[–]Kentaro009 26ポイント27ポイント  (11子コメント)

People that leave the labor force or switch to part-time are very often not doing so because they want to spend more time in their mansions. It is because economic pressures have caused the jobs to dry up.

[–]losersalwayswin 31ポイント32ポイント  (16子コメント)

most of my white male friends didn't go to college.

that whole college educated millenial living at home thing is true, but there's a fuck ton of highschool educated white dudes in the same spot.

[–]CuddlesMcHuggy 7ポイント8ポイント  (3子コメント)

Wtf? When did all my peers start making so much more money than me (25-26 college edyucated)? I need to get serious about my new job search

[–]NoWayTheConstitution 35ポイント36ポイント  (3子コメント)

While CEO's are making far more than all of the lower 99% of their workers do combined in some places throughout the world.

Not only that, wages are staying the same.

All while more tax havens are being opened up through legislation so the wealthy can hide their trillions they pillaged from our country's natural resources in off shore bank accounts and not pay a dime to the country they made their fortune in.

Because fuck that, paying taxes if for poor people.

[–]tripletstate 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

Our society is crumbling because the middle class can't support the burden alone.

[–]kettu3 [スコア非表示]  (3子コメント)

Sorry, I'm gonna be that guy, but why do we care if they're white? I feel like when we obsess over racial statistics like this, we're subconsciously reinforcing race stereotypes.

[–]PM_ME_LUNCHMEAT 16ポイント17ポイント  (3子コメント)

No shit you gotta have four roommates just to move out of your parents house anymore

[–]wirerc 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

That's what they voted for, through the politicians they elected, so that's what they get. Busting organized labor, deregulation, and tax cuts for the rich. But the good news is it's going to trickle down any time now. In the mean time, us liberal "elites" thank you for the tax cuts. Hang in there, working class folks. Just a few more tax cuts for us and it will start trickling. Stay strong.

[–]Choey33 18ポイント19ポイント  (11子コメント)

I have 2 trades plumbing and welding under my belt and I just nearly break over 30k a year with overtime. Now I live in Arkansas and generally the cost of living is a lot lower here. I could make a lot more if I was willing to constantly be traveling.

[–]kamikazee_fear 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

Two trades huh? I'd thought you make a killing just with plumbing. Must've been a bad market where you previously lived.

[–]Sergeant_Lucky [スコア非表示]  (1子コメント)

only 30k?! my foremen make around $37-$42 an hour. and thats in ohio. thats a lot. you gotta join a union

[–]AtomicMac 18ポイント19ポイント  (10子コメント)

I am a college educated white man and my pay hasn't increased in 10 years.

[–]thatswhatshesaidxx 46ポイント47ポイント  (7子コメント)

One of the only decent comments to ever come from the garbage fire that is reddit arguments:

Commentator 1: ...."blacks have been voting dem for years and are still poor"

Commentator 2: ...."white folks have been voting GOP forever and they're still poor too. Fuck is your point?"

I personally found zen in not giving a fuck about the political spectrum and politicking myself, but that was just a hilarious find that kinda fits here

[–]norsurfit 62ポイント63ポイント  (15子コメント)

They didn't say whether the number are adjusted for inflation, which could make the situation even more drastic.

$40,362 in 1996 dollars is worth significantly more today.

[–]DjTj81 54ポイント55ポイント  (0子コメント)

The study says that "All income values shown have been adjusted to reflect 2014 consumer prices."

You can get it from their website here: http://www.sentierresearch.com/mediaonly.html

[–]Arkanin 16ポイント17ポイント  (1子コメント)

Yeah, I'm wondering that as well. Articles like this REALLY need to specify if they included inflation or they are meaningless. I'm pretty sure these numbers did account for inflation, since it would otherwise imply that real wages have dramatically fallen by about 20% even for the college educated if they didn't account for it, which certainly doesn't appear to be true if you look at graphs of real wages in the US.

[–]Reck_yo 30ポイント31ポイント  (8子コメント)

ITT: My anecdotal evidence proves that you can't get a good job with a degree.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[–]Top_Chef 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Seriously, every fucking thread is just a spiral to the bottom.

[–]cscareerz 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

lol exactly. or "see it's always better to go to vocational/trade school. I'm doing better than every college graduate ever and I only went to school for a year!"

[–]jonab12 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

Which pisses me off to hell.

Most of the redditors who have good steady incomes working in related fields from college aren't jumping on the pity bandwagon

The article mentioned a pay increase in college grads and no one is acknowledging that

[–]bubbletea_fett 29ポイント30ポイント  (2子コメント)

Title is misleading. Per the article:

The results varied greatly by age. The youngest group of working class white men, who were 25 to 26 in 1996, saw their incomes rise by 19%

When it came to the oldest cohort, who were 43 to 44 in 1996, both working class and college educated white men saw their incomes fall over the period... ... This decline among older workers stems in part from people who left the labor force or shifted to part-time work, which pulls down the average income for the group

Note that the report was adjusted for inflation.

Basically: Working-class white men have seen their wages improve slightly since 1996, but they're getting left behind by their college-educated peers.

My opinion: Is this unfair? The economy is competitive. People who invest more into their skills are going to grow faster than people who don't. If working-class wages could keep up with college-educated wages, why would people keep paying for college? The key is whether or not the working-class is keeping up with itself, and the report seems to show that it is.

[–]die_rattin [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Or there's significant age discrimination, which even the white-collar workers have to deal with. Silicon Valley is notorious for it.

[–]bokmal 48ポイント49ポイント  (38子コメント)

Doesn't every group?

[–]BtmnDetroitDeserves 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

Yes, and minority groups have suffered more, but we need to add race to the headline to get more clicks.

[–]PM_YOUR_WALLPAPER 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

Did you read the article? White men with a college degree saw their I come increase over 23%

[–]HalfwayIllumined 134ポイント135ポイント  (72子コメント)

This is true for all people. Not just white men.

[–]whosonfirst09 17ポイント18ポイント  (14子コメント)

Somehow I got lucky. Joined the military to go to war, ended up doing IT instead. Got out two years ago, now making 85k/year at the age of 24. No degree, no college at all, not even a certification. Working as a network engineer at a large aerospace company. I honestly don't think I deserve the job, and consider myself extremely lucky.

[–]DrewsephVladmir 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

... fuck

Good on ya, mate. I'm jealous of you, but it sounds like you deserve it.

[–]BurnedOut_ITGuy 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Fortunately I am a working class Asian and thus earn more than my white counterparts. Asian privilege is awesome.

[–]GabrielMunn [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

I could go for some revolution. Anyone else wanna go get some revolution?

[–]Cojemos [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Non working rich white men's wages have increased yearly.

[–]RandomNakedGuy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

This is a result of globalization, which in turn is an unholy alliance between liberals and capitalism. Liberals feel sorry for third world people and want them to come here, capitalists benefit from cheap labor and wage dumping.

[–]ThePathGuy [スコア非表示]  (0子コメント)

Damn it! I can feel my privilege slowly deteriorating....

Iiiiim meeelllllttiiiiiingg