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#1 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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My trip to Ground Zero
A couple weeks back I was lucky enough to be in NYC with my girlfriend and some pals on vacation. What an amazing city! Stunning sites, sounds, museums, restaurants…and kooks.
On Saturday Aug 25th, despite a nasty cold, I headed down to Ground Zero for a chat with the truthers. Now I know the camera work here is pretty bad but I recorded primarily for use by a radio station so video wasn't my main concern. I've posted my clips individually since I haven't the talent nor the patience to put it all together in a movie. I didn't film all that I would have liked (not enough space on my card) but I got enough to capture the logic on display. I spent a good hour or so with these folks; some were polite, some were complete punks, and it was difficult at times to not get annoyed at hearing the same claims for the 500th time. The first guy I talked to was a younger member whose narrative of 9/11 was "we don't know." He simply wanted his questioned answered and yet seemed oblivious to the fact that they already had been. For example, WCT7 and "pull it" So he's unaware of the Implosion World paper, and unaware of what Silverstein and the FDNY say about "pull it" – but if they have in fact answered his questions then he'd like them to reiterate their statements at a press conference; then he might believe it. Just like in cyberspace, this was to be a re-occurring theme. These people simply haven't looked for the answers they claim to seek and when presented with the answers, it still isn't enough. Next up to bat was an older member of the group, on WTC7/Madrid Fire/FDNY/9/11 Commission Report. It was obvious that he was hearing every counter-point for the first time. Ever wonder how truthers do their research? Every wonder why so few experts speak out? Wonder no more. That bearded guy at the end was a real piece of work. He later complained about how the government and media treat truthers "like we’re children" and then went on to call me a "shill," "Satan" and made a remark about wanting to meet me in a dark alley somewhere. The guy he directed me to was this next fella, who explained how all sources outside of truther circles are compromised and used some good ol' circular logic to explain how experts and witnesses are scared into silence. Yup, the fact that more professors, family members and first responders aren't coming out is in itself proof that they're being intimidated. After all, why else would they not come forward? Then we got into specifics on the issue of demolition experts, and you know where that leads. So who's an expert on non-conventional demolitions? "Independent research. Get off the government payroll!" Good answer, bro. He later delivered another classic. What's a pyroclastic flow? It's "dust from an explosion." As for it being a volcanic term, that I was apparently "making up." He soon walked away leaving the other two to face the ever troublesome Iraq/WMD question. Had to be persistent in order to get an answer but I got one. During most of my stay, a team of Italian filmmakers (truthers) were shooting their own video and the local truthers were anxious to put on a good show. With a crowd of perhaps 20 truthers standing around me, a very loud fella started screaming about how firefighters had reported "explosions" and presented a binder full of their statements. How many FDNY had he contacted? No answer, just more screaming. He then made the mistake of talking about how the lobbies of the towers had been blown out. "So why did the same thing happen when the Empire State Building was struck by a B-25?" I asked. Amazingly, none of them were aware of this even though some claimed to have read the Popular Mechanics book which has a picture of the blackened ESB lobby after flaming debris had crashed down an elevator shaft. The guy who'd been screaming at me even made the Dylanesque blunder of saying the plane was a B-52! Not all truthers were such blowhards. It must be said that the guy from the fifth clip who works in "3D animation and physics" was a class act and we were able to have a civilized discussion, despite the objections of Mr. don't-treat-us-like-the-children-we-clearly-are. I did get some answers about the Pentagon that left me a bit puzzled though. Sorry again for the crappy camera work. Why replace Flight 77 with something else? What about all those eyewitnesses? While we were chatting, some woman who appeared to be strung out on drugs was wandering around muttering incoherent nonsense and asking truthers for change. He insisted that she wasn't one of them and then expressed some surprise that I wasn't filming her. Why would I film her if she wasn't a truther? Why in order to pretend she was a truther, of course – that way I could make the rest of them appear nutty. No need, my friend. No need. Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad? Well, they've made a few movies that way so far... |
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#2 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,542
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I watched a few but it's hard for me to watch this stuff.
The "get off the government payrole" guy made me stop listening when he said "Do you know about the law of angular momentum? Do you know about the law of inertia?". The law of inertia? Oh my. |
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A witty saying proves nothing. -Voltaire |
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#3 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Originally Posted by Anti-sophist
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#4 |
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AI-EE-YAH!
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,354
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VERY nice work CHF. You seriously did a good job. You can tell that you really do know your stuff and they simply looked foolish. Way to go.
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Looks like the one on top has a magazine, thus needs less reloading. Also, the muzzle shroud makes it less likely for a spree killer to burn his hands. The pistol grip makes it more comfortable for the spree killer to shoot. thaiboxerken |
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#5 |
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Cold-hearted skeptic
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,984
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Nice choice of video category
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#6 |
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Game Warden
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,321
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I've only watched one so far- I have to hit the rest up tomorrow, but EXCELLENT work, CHF.
Kudos. |
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"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into." --Jonathan Swift Blog - Corrected By Reality. My debunking videos, and philosophy on YouTube Totovader's 9/11 Conspiracy Challenge Still unanswered! |
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#7 |
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beer-swilling semiliterate
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Connecticut, or King Arthur's Court. Hard to tell sometimes.
Posts: 24,677
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But was the LIHOP/MIHOP song guy there?
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A møøse ønce bit my sister |
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#8 |
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Thinker
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 165
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Call me crazy but the guy with the nose ring may have lived a little to close to powerlines at somepoint.
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"Sometimes you just have to pee in the sink." - Charles Bukowski So basically 80-100 tons of dirt got compacted further underground? - Killtown. "How did you arrive at your 80-100 tons figure?" - defaultdotxbe. "Pick a weight that the 757 weighed as it burrowed." - Killtown |
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#9 |
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Wicked Lovely
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 9,091
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I'm impressed, but curious about one thing; why didn't you ever correct people when they said the towers fell at freefall speed?
Otherwise, I find that to be an excellent example of the level of research and capability the twoofers have. |
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#10 |
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Master Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,685
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Thanks for your efforts and documentation. It can't be easy being surrounded by all these ignorant non-researchers. Sounded like a mad man gathering. I can't see the videos at work, but I will watch them eventually.
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9/11 Guide homepage Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit. - Chief Daniel Nigro |
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#11 |
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Cavitus Rectum
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,435
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Originally Posted by CHF
What, you mean that Godzilla did it? |
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The most complete and happy victory is this: to compel one's enemy to give up his purpose, while suffering no harm oneself. Belisarius |
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#12 |
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NWO Acorn Hoarder
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: N 34 3 8 / W 118 14 33
Posts: 2,062
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Originally Posted by CHF
[font=Verdana][size=2]
<rather large snip of some good stuff> Meanwhile, some truthers took pictures and video of me during my visit, for use, I was told, against me if I tried to make them look bad by dishonestly editing film to show them saying things they didn't say, etc. - stuff I don't even know how to do! Does their threat mean they'll stoop to such levels in order to make me look bad? Well, they've made a few movies that way so far... |
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#13 |
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NWO Acorn Hoarder
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: N 34 3 8 / W 118 14 33
Posts: 2,062
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Originally Posted by Björn Toulouse
What, you mean that Godzilla did it?
Everyone knows it was invisible Godzilla. |
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#14 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,280
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That was great, CHF. There's nothing like a good laugh to start off the day.
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- There is only one way to be right, but an infinite number of ways to be wrong. |
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#15 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Originally Posted by Sabrina
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#16 |
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NWO Litter Technician
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Looks like Finland. Smells like Finland. Quacks like Finland. Where the hell am I?
Posts: 12,028
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I have to congratulate you on your stamina. Back when I was a young man, I attended a few revival meetings with a couple of friends, just for laughs. Sitting there and listening to the bs with a straight face is a huge energy drain. This is one reason why I appreciate you putting this on youtube -- now I can have all the fun I have the stomach for, and yet the idiots disappear with one mouse click when I've had enough.
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#17 |
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Muse
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 730
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Very nice work, CHF. I'm surprised no one seemed to know about the Protec Paper...and that the Towers were actually falling FASTER than the debris. Wow. Just wow. I'm not sure how the NWO pulled that off.
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#18 |
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Muse
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 652
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I'll have to check these videos out when I get home from work tonight, from the comments so far though seems to be good stuff.
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"One shouldn't be surprised that the results of the calculations don't square with reality." - M. Magnan |
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#19 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,466
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Excellent job CHF.
I can't believe they're still chanting "virtual free fall speed" as if that means anything. Now I know why their "movement" will probably never die. They just keep saying the same things over and over which ultimately brings in more "newbies" who are ignorant that all of it has been answered and debunked. The truthers are like a cult that attract the weak. They will never run out of people to recruit. Also, the "never before in the history of the world has a steel framed building collapsed due to fire" is a semi-powerful "hook" to those uninformed. I can see how that chant alone could suck in a couple of people here and there. The next week the new sheep are out there chanting the same thing. Your answers were, of course, concise and spot on. Two big thumbs up to you my friend for doing your part. |
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#20 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,060
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Wow CHF! Amazing job on keeping your patience. Well done with your conciseness. I would be happy to buy you a drink sometime (Non-alcoholic if you don't drink)!
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I've accomplished more without film school than most people, such as yourself, will EVER accomplish. Period. Jealousy is a bitch, and I'm sorry you're experiencing it, but don't spew ******** like that and expect to not be corrected. This is why you were banned from my forums in the first place. - Dylan Avery on the budget of his film. |
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#21 |
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Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 145
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Originally Posted by CHF
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#22 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Originally Posted by Calcas
They didn't have a clue. |
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#23 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,077
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Great job CHF. If I had known you were gonna be in the city I would have met up with you and bought you a drink
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I bringth the Amber lamps "The most beautiful four words in the common language is: I told you so." - Vidal |
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#24 |
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Hoku-maniac
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,904
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Great stuff. I'll be passing these around.
"Have you contacted any demoliton experts?" (5 minute long version of "no") |
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"If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again |
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#25 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,446
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I can't stop laughing. AWESOME job! IS there anymore coming???
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#26 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Dog House
Posts: 24,255
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Originally Posted by CHF
good video, really dumb people |
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#27 |
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Thinker
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 145
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CHF I finally got a chance to view all of them. You did a phenomenal job. You have the patience of Job.
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#28 |
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Graduate Poster
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,286
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Originally Posted by Drs_Res
These people sound more and more like Scientologists with every report I see/hear about them.
Alex Jones will be doing his Jim Jones impersonation any day now. |
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"NOBODY expects the Truther Movement! Our chief weapon is speculation, speculation and conjecture, conjecture and speculation. Our two weapons are conjecture and speculation, and youtube videos. Our *three* weapons are conjecture, speculation, and youtube videos, and an almost fanatical devotion to the "Truth". Our *four*. No. *Amongst* our weapons. Amongst our weaponry, are such elements as conjecture, speculation." |
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#29 | |||
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Hoku-maniac
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,904
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speaking of scientologists...
[shameful plug]
[/shameful plug] Ever notice how untimley passings for both groups are always mysterious and questionable? |
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"If God wants 10% of my paycheck, he can get it himself. Or at least work for it -Kochanski "I may not be easy, but I am fast." - Hokulele "Oh CRAP... DQ!!" - Ol' Hokey, yet again |
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#30 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
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Ahhh... the idiots up close. Great job CHF!
The camera work isn't bad at all. |
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#31 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Originally Posted by Mr.Herbert
The truthers actually recorded far more than I did. I'd love to see a clip of that Empire State Building lobby/B-52 moment. The brief awkward silence was absolutely priceless. |
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#32 |
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 25,817
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It's a little disconcerting to see them spout the same garbage as two years ago. They're still at it with the "pull it" thing?
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#33 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 13,618
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Good job, CHF! My gosh, there is a lot of linkable stuff here today! We'll put your videos up on SLC later this afternoon.
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My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog. |
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#34 |
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Muse
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 686
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More. I say more.
This was perfect. Best way to get these guys is to let them hang themselves. |
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#35 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,811
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Well done CHF...we may have a Gravy protege in the making...lol
You were calm, patient, reasonable, and you made it quite clear that when the average truther is confronted face to face on the issues, they really do exhibit a sparse knowledge, and very limited synthesis of the information. TAM |
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#36 |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,992
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Where's YOUR face, CHF?
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#37 |
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Banned
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,992
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Come see me, CHF. I am in NYC this weekend.
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#38 |
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Penultimate Amazing
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 10,924
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip
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The poster formerly known as Redtail |
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#39 |
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Proud Award Award recipient
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,553
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Originally Posted by CHF
(Except I wasn't with your girlfriend, but with my husband.) However, contrary to you, we deliberately decided not to visit Ground Zero on a saturday. Contrary to you, I was afraid (to quote T.A.M.) not to be calm, patient and reasonable when confronted irl with the nonsense of these people. You are great in these films, CHF, really incredible! And it's true, NYC is an amazing city! |
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Hillary Clinton belongs in the White House. Donald Trump belongs on my show. -- Jerry Springer The method of science is tried and true. It is not perfect, it's just the best we have. And to abandon it, with its skeptical protocols is the pathway to a dark age. -- Carl Sagan |
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#40 |
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Illuminator
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,871
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Originally Posted by Lyte Trip
Quote:
I'll be in Woodville, Ontario. BTW, sorry I didn't ask them to comment on the flyover, Lyte. Completely slipped my mind. |
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