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How can get cats to breed?Discussion (self.cats)

leafset が 投稿

I would like to start breeding Birman cats. It's my favorite breed. However, I'm having a hard time finding where to get them. I saw two places in Florida that sell Birman kittens, but they are required to be sterilized. Which makes no sense. I think it should be illegal to contract people into requiring them to sterilize pets. People should be able to adopt pets, and choose what they want to do.

Also, is it possible to breed cats from the same litter? Or do they need to be from different litters? Like if I get two cats, and they have their first litter of kittens. Is it possible to interbreed them?

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[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 5ポイント6ポイント  (1子コメント)

List of some of the things you need to know to breed cats:

Basic husbandry:

  • Cat, kitten and neonate handling.
  • Flea, worm, vaccine and microchip regime.
  • Housing necessities (enrichment, size, hygiene, etc)
  • Knowledge in recognising poor health in cats and kittens.
  • Knowledge of keeping good health in cats and kittens.
  • Ability to measure and administer medication to cats and kittens.

Genetics:

  • Reading parental lines to ensure VERY SEPARATE bloodlines.
  • Awareness of common genetic ailments in cats and Birmans in particular.
  • Awareness of symptoms and testing for these ailments and their related costs.
  • Knowledge of congenital issues with neonates (TBC below)

Nutrition:

  • Awareness of the nutritional needs at different life stages.
  • Knowledge of caloric needs, how to replace deficits, how to calculate requirements for different needs, etc.
  • Knowledge of different food types and their appropriateness for different life stages, AAFCO, etc.

Mating:

  • Knowledge of the estrus cycle.
  • Awareness of behaviours related to estrus cycles and mating.
  • Awareness of potential health problems and injuries related to estrus and mating.

Pregnancy:

  • Awareness of the numerous health problems that can come along with pregnancy.
  • Capability of paying for massive veterinary bills related to pregnancy.
  • Knowledge of the progression of pregnancy and the associated needs and risks.

Birth:

  • Knowledge of the signs of imminent birth and how to prepare.
  • Knowledge of the signs of dystocia.
  • Awareness and willingness to seek help when necessary.
  • Knowledge of the birth processes and it's stages, how long each stage should last, etc.
  • Knowledge of standard post-birth recovery for queens.

Neonates:

  • Knowledge of basic resuscitation techniques and first aid for neonates.
  • Awareness of basic congenital defects and their required treatment/first aid.
  • Knowledge of standard neonatal growth.
  • Ability to hand-raise kittens if necessary (this could be a whole dang list in and of itself).

IDK there's a heap more but I'm at work and this is a start.

[–]kitmythie 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

This is a lot, and to properly care for queen and kittens, it is essential to know and be able to handle emergencies that can and likely will arise in cat husbandry.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 9ポイント10ポイント  (27子コメント)

Please go and do a LOT of research on breeding cats before you get any animals. Like, months of research. Talk to other breeders. Talk to vets. Thoroughly examine the reason you want to breed cats. You absolutely can't interbreed cats from the same litter.

People put restrictions on selling entire cats precisely because of people like you.

[–]leafset[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (26子コメント)

Reported. Abuse/cyberbullying/trying to start flame war.

I asked a simple question. Anybody who would like to respond with help and advice free of abuse is welcome to.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 9ポイント10ポイント  (25子コメント)

Where is the abuse here? I have given you pertinent advice and answers. If you have to ask the internet if you can directly inbreed cats then you are not ready to breed cats.

[–]leafset[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (24子コメント)

No you haven't given any pertinant advise. Only abuse. It is cyberbullies like you who like to dish abuse and use blatant abusive communication. But don't like it when done to you.

If anybody has something constructive to contribute about how to breed, great. If you're destructive, then don't respond. As nobody will listen even if you actually have some important tips on breeding to share. Maybe you don't care about cats, and don't care if breeding goes wrong. Because anybody who actually would want me to do it right would never be abusive which you clearly are. And the more trolls thumbs down this discussion, the less likely it will lead to good advice. And more likely to mistakes.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 7ポイント8ポイント  (23子コメント)

You are only willing to listen to what you want to hear. Which, unfortunately, is "YES YOU CAN TURN ANY BREED OF CAT INTO AN INFINITE CAT-PRODUCING MACHINE YOU DON'T NEED ANY KNOWLEDGE OF GENETICS, NUTRITION, DYSTOCIA, ESTRUS CYCLES OR ANYTHING!!!!" You are delusional and you need to hear this advice, which is why people keep giving it to you.

I hope no breeder ever lets an animal into your care.

[–]leafset[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (22子コメント)

I am not only willing to listen to what I want to hear. That is outright baseless attack. I only listen to people who have something constructive to say. If you are abusive, even if you had good advice, nobody will listen to it because nobody listens to anything abusers day.

So who's really delusional? You're a complete and utter troll with absolutely nothing constructive to contribute. Get lost. The sole purpose you are here is to be abusive. Because that is what cyberbullies are about. Only abuse. Not actually anything real to contribute. Proven with all of your name calling.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 6ポイント7ポイント  (21子コメント)

I have given literally hundreds of helpful replies, including my initial comment to you, on various animal-related subreddits as I have been a veterinary nurse for nearly seven years. My initial reply was to tell you that no, you can't interbreed cats and that you needed to do a massive amount of research before you breed cats. Which is absolutely, objectively true. You took this basic advice as abuse which is remarkable.

Everybody here is telling you the same thing because it's apparent to everyone that you've got no proper insight into this subject and you've got a ways to go before you're ready to go near breeding animals. Get it together.

[–]dontcryferguson 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Well said.

[–]leafset[S] -1ポイント0ポイント  (19子コメント)

This is an outright lie. You are abusive and name calling. So stop with the bs as if you are doing anything other than trying to start a flame war. You call people ignorant and delusional, then claim you are giving advice. Who's really delusional. Only cyberbullies like you who consider abuse to be advice.

Get this simple fact - anything cyberbullies say gets ignored. Anybody who has actual legitimate advice, and willing to communicate in a constructive manner without being abusive or trolling or using insults has been more than welcome to from the start. This is something that severely deranged ignorant delusional abusive-minded cyberbullies have no concept of. Only using people who need help with a topic as a way to abuse them.

That is what cyberbullying is. Preying on people who need actual help. You can call me all the names you want. But in the end, the only one who is ignorant and delusional is you.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 4ポイント5ポイント  (4子コメント)

What names have I called you?

[–]leafset[S] -3ポイント-2ポイント  (3子コメント)

People put restrictions on selling entire cats precisely because of people like you.

Blatant abuse to anybody who knows what abuse is. If you don't consider this abusive, then perhaps you shouldn't be communicating with intelligent people.

[–]dontcryferguson 2ポイント3ポイント  (13子コメント)

And me! And everyone who said something you didn't want to hear is apparently "delusional" and "abusive."

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

Everybody except you is delusional and abusive!!!!! It's a /r/cats conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[–]leafset[S] 0ポイント1ポイント  (11子コメント)

Your questions sound a bit ignorant

That is a quote from your first response here in this discussion. If you want to start a flame war, go do it elsewhere. And gtfo this discussion. Because this is not what I am here fore. Especially considering how my questions actually sound, which is not ignorant at all, but trying to learn something. The only ignorance is cyberbullies like you who specifically prey on people who need help for the purpose of abusing them. That is fact.

Not to mention using debate tactics as if I called anybody abusive for saying anything I didn't want to hear as if there was actually something legitimate that I didn't want to hear. Typical troll technique. There is only one thing I don't want to hear - abuse. Anything else is more than welcome. So like I said, if you want to start flame wars, do so elsewhere. As trolls like you do nothing for anybody.

[–]kitmythie 7ポイント8ポイント  (12子コメント)

Please think about the questions you asked. Without doing research on a breed and researching cat breeding as a whole (process, genetics, nutrition for queens, etc.) you could be doing more harm to a breed than good. All of those questions you asked can be researched whether you hunt down information in books, articles, or by speaking with vets. If you look at breeds as a whole, you'll start to see patterns of defects or maladies that are common in a particular breed. Where do the defects originate? How have breeds been changed for an absurd appearance at the cost of their health?

It's more than "put tom and queen in room to get kittens." Please reconsider this path and take some time to volunteer at a shelter caring for cats who have been abandoned. Speak with veterinarians and vet techs who deal with cats; find out what they see from hastily executed and uninformed breeding.

[–]leafset[S] -5ポイント-4ポイント  (11子コメント)

Can't reconsider without knowing more. If I do get actual legitimate advice from people that aren't trolls just trying to thumbs down this discussion to bury it, then maybe I can get some actual advice that may or may not lead me to reconsider. Especially considering good advice would mean I wouldn't need to reconsider. It's up to the community on whether or not they want to contribute to somebody doing something the right way.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 6ポイント7ポイント  (6子コメント)

Or perhaps you could do some research yourself? Why are you reliant on a random subreddit to capably look after living, breathing animals? Take some responsibility, for fuck's sake.

[–]leafset[S] -4ポイント-3ポイント  (5子コメント)

IOW - "troll troll troll troll." Get lost as you have no concept of actual discussion other than flame flame flame flame troll troll troll troll which is all you're about.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

What names did I call you?

[–]leafset[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (3子コメント)

I already answered this question with one example out of multiple times you have been abusive. If you don't get that you have a serious problem, it isn't my problem. So why continue asking the same question that has already been addressed?

Get lost. You're a troll. Take a look at how you communicate. You are blatantly an abusive minded individual. And your only purpose here is to start a flame war and prey on people who need help in order to abuse them. Why do cyberbullies like you exist? Because that is what you do to feel better about your sad life. Abuse others. You're a clear and blatant cyberbully here for one purpose and only that purpose. Abuse. Proof is in pretty much every single response from you. Of course, most abusive minded individuals will never admit what you're about, and claim your abuse isn't abuse. So not just abusive, but extremely delusional. GTFO.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

You never told me what names I called you at all, which is why I keep asking.

[–]leafset[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (1子コメント)

I have a better idea. Get lost. Nobody cares since you're only purpose is to troll. Secondly, learn how to read considering I already answered this question. Aside from that, there is no need to respond to trolls who have proven over and over what you're here for. Here's a fact - you already saw my response, know exactly what I am talking about, and continuing to ask. Nothing new for trolls.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

You quoted a sentence I said that contained no names. What names have I called you?

[–]kitmythie 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

You have asked basic questions that would be answered by doing research about cats in general. You should invest time in a library to get a decent idea of some of the things I outlined and the questions you asked, like "can cats be inbred?"

If you look at breed histories, you can see why in some cases interference by Man to refine traits has been a bad idea. For example, Persians with super smooshed faces? Bad idea--some varieties of Persians have faces so compact they live with breathing problems (think red) yet some people think that's adorable. Siamese cats for show cannot have strabismus--it's considered a breed fault. The blue fur color gene--some cats, British Blues and Russian blues, will overeat because there's also a link to a signal in their brain that should tell them they're full, but that signal is just not working. Manx cats--and cats with shortened tails die to generic defects and inbreeding--are more prone to gastrointestinal distress the shorter their tail is. I had a moggie DSH rumpy (no tail except a tiny nub) that the vet could not determine why she was occasionally pooping blood after repeated visits with exams and stool samples.

Cleft palates, polydactyl, behavioral issues--that's the type of the iceberg. Ragdolls--they're usually very docile and have a response to go limp. That's not a desirable trait in a pet, and this breed came about as a derivative of Himalayans and Birmans if memory serves.

Had you considered some of the issues and presented those, well, there would probably be strong advice not to breed. Some color varieties are not approved as breed standards because of breed dilution to generate the color. In dogs, for example, "silver" labradors look pretty, but the color is a major fault. The only approved colors for labrador retrievers are yellow, black, and chocolate. For Siamese cats, when I first began researching cats years ago, only four colors were considered breed standard--blue, chocolate, seal, and one other one that escapes me right now. Other colors are faults or have the cat reclasified as an Oriental shorthair.

I haven't covered even the tip of the iceberg for breed faults.

For example, you asked how to get cats to mate. Did you know the queen chooses the tom of her liking? Cats are super-fecund. A queen will sometimes mate with multiple toms, but the queen chooses. She refuses to mate with some toms for reasons of, "nope."

For point-colored cats, there are faults with their color patterns if mixed with white or if white appears, it appears in the wrong places, is too large, or is non-existent. Tail kinks or shortened abnormalities are faults. Eye colors other than blue are faults. Strabismus is a fault. Body types that are too heavy are faults.

Tail kinks and crossed eyes are defects in point-colored cats. It's not enough to want to breed cats when you like the way a breed looks but have no idea of how cat genetics work and common problems found. It's not enough for Birmans to research them--you should be looking at point-colored cats as a whole and some other breeds to get an idea of the things that can go wrong. The mindset of breeding for the sake of being able to without arming yourself with knowledge is dangerous and can be very expensive, especially if someone buys a cat that is pure-bred but is loaded with faults, and that cat was bought for show.

Does that help clarify it? If not, please go to a library and look at breed standards. A lot of base knowledge of breed standards that I've picked up has been from going to a library and exhausting the resources they had available and speaking with people knowledgable about cats.

[–]leafset[S] -2ポイント-1ポイント  (2子コメント)

Not sure what you mean about refining traits. You might have missed what this topic was about? It's not about colors or refining or anything. Yes I am simply looking to breed Birman cats. Clearly, I'd want to make sure the cats I'm using aren't defective? The question I was asking wasn't about how to get cats to mate with eachother. It was about how to find the type of cats I am looking for so I can breed them. And also how it would work for continued breeding. So breeding from the same litter won't work. What about pairing cats of the same parents, but different litters?

[–]kitmythie 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

The subject of the post doesn't clarify that. You need to know the history of the breed and to know things like consanguinity is terrible. Think about what you asked--can't breed from same litter, what makes breeding from different litters, same parents just as bad? Consanguinity. Same genetic sources. As far as buying cats to breed, you'd have to talk to existing breeders to see if they'll budge.

That you wish to breed for the sake of breeding without considering colors standard to the breed is worrisome. That you're not already familiar with breed defects is also worrisome. You really should do your own legwork and research instead of posting to a forum asking about this.

[–]ArteriallyVeterinary Nurse 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

The cats need to be from as widely different bloodlines as possible. You should not breed any family of cats together whatsoever. Breeders will import animals from other countries in order to keep their gene pool as wide as possible.

Gene pools being claustrophobic has long been an issue in the breeding world and it is generally considered very irresponsible to contribute to the problem.

[–]oldcat007 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

Breeders do sell cats for breeding purposes. It just costs a lot more than getting one for pet purposes, and they may wish to make sure you are an ethical breeder since the purebred registration system requires you to state what breeder your kittens came from.

Basically, you are trying to use their "product" and reputation to start a business in direct competition with them. Apple would not be happy if you added a sticker to their IPads and sold them as your own.

[–]dontcryferguson 5ポイント6ポイント  (8子コメント)

Have you spent any time with birman cats or ever owned them? Have you ever had to live with an intact male or female and all their nuisance behaviors? A better question, have you spent any time visiting shelters and watching daily normal healthy cats and kittens be euthanized simply because there aren't enough homes for them all?

Responsible breeders spend a great deal of time studying genetics and years finding suitable specimens to work on their breeding programs. They have long wait lists of approved people wanting kittens before they ever bring a male and female together so all kittens they bring into this world have homes. They never just have kittens available. They have the goal of bettering the breed via health, temperment, and coloring, and aren't doing it just because they like how they look. Most quality breeders also show their cats. Have you ever been to a cat show and understand the dynamics of this?

They require people spay and neuter because of the amount of time and devotion it takes to improve a breed, rather than do harm to it with indiscriminate breeding and trying to make profit. Your questions sound a bit ignorant and suggest that you truly don't understand the type of passion and commitment it takes to breed animals ethically. If you're serious about learning, I'd recommend you contact a breeder and find out what they charge for show quality kittens and take some time to visit some cat shows.